/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21367829]

This is the only accurate list of the epic poems of Europe on the web
>But Dante
Fuck Dante
>B-But Milton
Fuck him too
>You're ignoring 1700 years of cult-
Judeo-Christianity will never be European.

[Anonymous No.21367866]

>>21367829
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[Anonymous No.21367869]

>>21367866
>if you reject a jewish religion you're a jew
tell me you're american without telling me you're american

[Anonymous No.21367872]

>>21367829
Beowulf is a Christian poem. Do you even read?

[Anonymous No.21367873]

>>21367829
What aboot the Matters of France/England.

[Anonymous No.21367881]

>>21367829
This is good, but can you please remove the Indo-"europeans" who drove out the true European pls.

My Basque ancestors demand it.

[Anonymous No.21367889]

>The Tain
>Spanish
Fuck off, /pol/tard yank.

[Anonymous No.21367900]

>>21367872
This. OP is a booklet.

[Anonymous No.21367904]

>>21367889
tink itsa refering to da celts.

[Anonymous No.21367909]

paganlarper

[Anonymous No.21367914]

>>21367869
Christianity is European. Cope more.

[Anonymous No.21367927]

>>21367914
Christianity belongs to the Middle East, the ancestors of europeans were not hebrews

[Anonymous No.21367935]

>>21367927
writting belongs to the middle east. the ancestors of europeans were not writers.

Christianity grew up in the roman empire. the ancestors of christianity were roman.

[Anonymous No.21367939]

>>21367927
Europeans adopted Christianity and made it their own. All this ethno-reductivist /pol/tard talk is irrelevant. Go suck Vaarg's dick.

[Anonymous No.21367950]

>>21367935
>the ancestors of europeans were not writers.
so besides being an american you're also a jew or a self-hating spic
>Christianity grew up in the roman empire. the ancestors of christianity were roman.
a black person who grows up or is born in ireland will never be irish, the same principle applies to middle eastern religions
>>21367939
praising christianity for making europe great is like watching an athlete with a tumor winning a race and praising the tumor instead of the man.

[Anonymous No.21367960]

>>21367829
>Italy
>The Aeneid
>Italy
???
this is so anachronistic I don't even know here to begin.

[Anonymous No.21367963]

>>21367950
>the same principle applies to middle eastern religions
the greeks were pretty dang into Egyptian religions. And xtianity was pretty influenced by da geeks. The near east and the med world are rather interconnected. though with distinctions.

[Anonymous No.21367967]

I hate how pagan retards say Christianity is a Jewish ploy when Jews literally say in their Talmud (which they kept secret so it’s not for show) that Jesus was burning in his own shit, and Jews replaced Christianity with liberalism and Christian Europe persecuted Jews endlessly, and that Jews actually worship the same demons you pagans do

[Anonymous No.21367968]

>>21367960
>Aeneid
praises the heroes who founded Italy and the forefathers of the roman empire
>The Divine Comedy
Puts these heroes in hell and lauds faggot saints who walked in the desert to get schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.21367970]

>>21367968
Italy =/= Roman Empire
Latin =/= Italian

[Anonymous No.21367974]

>>21367967
Lol is that why Asatru Folk Assembly makes jews seethe for being white only while christcucks want immigrants to flood Europe?

[Anonymous No.21367975]

>>21367960
Im on the op is a retard train.
but the intent is obvious in that the use of the country names is in reference to general ethno-cultural groups rather than necessarily the modern states.

[Anonymous No.21367977]

>>21367970
Italy = center of Roman Empire
Latin = Ancient Italian

[Anonymous No.21367992]

>>21367974
what a petty understanding. like irreligious metrosexuals arent fully on the immigrant train and rural Christians are.

your whole mentality is a kek.

[Anonymous No.21367993]

>>21367977
>Italy = center of Roman Empire
Italy didn't exist. The capital doesn't make it Italy.
>Latin = Ancient Italian
And Spanish, and French, and Sardinian, etc.

[Anonymous No.21367999]

>>21367993
https://www.britannica.com/place/Italy-ancient-Roman-territory-Italy
yes it did, educate yourself

[Anonymous No.21368001]

>>21367974
The true seat of apostolic church is vacant and has been so since the takeover by the Vatican II sect in the 60s, the current popes are antichrists

[Anonymous No.21368004]

>>21368001
>the current popes are antichrists
and you're a retard

[Anonymous No.21368007]

>>21367975
The Roman Empire extended beyond modern Italy. Spain is essentially the same as Roman as Italy. The Roman poet Martial came from modern Spain, for example.

[Anonymous No.21368021]

>>21367999
That's not the same nation-state that it is now. In that website you shared they even make the distinction between Italici and Romans yet you say that only modern Italians are Romans.

[Anonymous No.21368024]

>>21368021
no shit, borders change, doesn't mean italic people did not have an identity before 1861

[Anonymous No.21368037]

>>21368024
They didn't. At least not as unified like you think. They all had different identities.

[Anonymous No.21368046]

>>21367872
So is the Poetic Edda

[Anonymous No.21368058]

>>21367829
This level of retardation is beyond belief. Cultures change, religions change, the gods people worship change, the fact that the pagan religions of Europe are no longer practiced, is a testament to their inability to create civilizations durable enough to survive interactions with other cultures, I'm athiest, so I don't care about this nonsense, but you moaning about "muh pagan ancestors" and "the real europe" is as ridiculous as native americans who actually believe decolonization will ever happen, like yeah, we can magically deconstruct nearly 2000 years of cultural development and set outselves back to a culture that we don't even truly know. This version of Europe you believe in never existed you retard, you're pining after a version of a culture that you imagine because you're dissatisfied with your current one, and spoiler alert, you'd be a huge faggot there too.

[Anonymous No.21368063]

>>21367829
Paterson literally mogs every poem on this list

[Anonymous No.21368066]

>>21368046
And the Prose Edda. It begins with the Christian creation story. All /pol/tards trying to erase Christianity from Europe's identity are fighting a lost battle. Eurochristianity is an inherent part.

[Anonymous No.21368076]

>>21368046
Strictly speaking, every work here but the Virgil and Homer are Christian.

[Anonymous No.21368080]

>>21368058
the fact that christcucks had to make laws against paganism up to the 17th century and afterwards proves their incompetence in eradicating the traditions of europe
>I'm athiest, so I don't care about this nonsense
just tell me you're a nihilist porn or drug addict before making a lost post, atheists have the highest rates of suicide and depression in the world, and their birthrates are the lowest. You are in no position to criticize anybody.

[Anonymous No.21368086]

>>21368080
They eradicated all pagan religions. What's left is a larp by a few retards.

[Anonymous No.21368095]

>>21368086
all of them? did they also eradicate Hinduism and Shinto? So much for the omnipotent god

[Anonymous No.21368099]

>>21368095
We were talking Europe.

[Anonymous No.21368106]

>>21368099
The last recorded Baltic pagan ritual was in the early 20th century, you're wrong again

[Anonymous No.21368112]

>>21367967
The Talmud doesn't say that...
While we might kiss our own ass a lot, we actually don't spend that much time thinking about christians...
Also if you read a little bit about the reformation and subsequent philosophies of liberalism, you'd see it grew out of enlightenment christianity

[Anonymous No.21368113]

>>21367829
>Igor's Campaign
>Polish
What the absolute fuck
Btw you probably didn't read it, if the point is that the epics are pagan. It literally ends with the words: "Health be to the princes and their forces, defeating, for the Christians, the Pagan armies. Glory to the princes and the forces! Amen." (Здpaви князи и дpyжинa, пoбapaя зa хpиcтьяны нa пoгaныя плъки! Князeмъ cлaвa a дpyжинѣ! Aминь.) It still retains pagan motifs, but it's clear the overall worldview of the poem is already quite Christianised.

[Anonymous No.21368123]

>>21368106
They can have their little retarded traditions. Who cares. Their religions are as good as dead.

[Anonymous No.21368130]

>>21368080
I recognize the social utility of religion, I don't hate it as a concept, just like I don't hate these pagan religions you ape on about. They're not retarded just because they have monkeys like you supporting them. Also, every powerful culture will inevitably set up protocals to absorb or destroy new or old religions within their sphere of influence, see hindusim and buddhism for a foreign example, or the christian practice of establishing new holidays over top of pagan ones.

Religion is a passive set of cultural standards for most people, most christians don't spend a lot of time actually reading the bible, same with muslims, jews, hindus, etc. Religion exists to provide social cohesion, identity, and direction for its denizens, christianity did a better job at it then the pagans, so they won. You can cry about it forever, but no one will ever see you worshipping Odin, Zeus, or any pagan god, as anything other than larping. You chasing after these religions and cultures so far removed form yourself, is as sad as an American, 10-generations removed from their European ancestry, waking up one day and deciding to live like a european peasant from the 1700s, "cuz life was better then".

Paganism isn't bad, but you're a fag

[Anonymous No.21368141]

>>21368106
There's rituals done by Romuvar and Liutdevans right now. Hell, Stonehenge has yearly mass-rituals done at it, and the temple-site at Uppsala has blots done basically every month.

>>21367967
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avodah_Zarah

[Anonymous No.21368150]

>>21368130
Cultures change, religions change, the gods people worship change, the fact that the pagan religions of Europe are now once again practiced, is a testament to their ability to create civilizations durable enough to survive interactions with other cultures.

[Anonymous No.21368158]

>>21368130
based

[Anonymous No.21368165]

>>21368150
They're modern fan recreations by a few retards. The religion of Europe is Christianity.

[Anonymous No.21368170]

>>21368165
Clearly not, given that church attendance is at an all time low.

[Anonymous No.21368177]

>>21368165
Sorry anon, but you yourself said that cultures change, religions change, and that the gods people worship change. Christianity just wasn't durable enough to survive interactions with other cultures. You need to stop LARPing as a Russian monk, and accept reality.

[Anonymous No.21368180]

>>21368170
Yeah, that's part of the problem. Weal church, weak Europe.

[Anonymous No.21368183]

[Anonymous No.21368182]

>>21368150
The practice of these religions was obviously never fully eradicated, as many of their traditions were carried on secularly within christian communities, but pointing to the miniscule pockets of people "practicing" (I use that word lightly because most of these people are attaching themselves to a fictionalized version of culture they have no actual connection to) these religions, as evidence of their ability to create sustainable populations is ridiculous.

People have started doing all this because they're unsatisfied with their current lives, want to feel superior to others, and attach themselves to something they feel they have a connection to (despite the fact that they objectively don't). It also helps that people don't actually care about opressing other religions anymore in western countries, a lot of stories about these practices exist, and its easy for people to see them as a viable alternative. But saying that these populations will ever be anything other than larpers, is like saying all these wiccan retards, are anything other than boring women who want to feel like they can actually impact the world in any way

[Anonymous No.21368184]

>>21368170
>Europe in decline
>Christianity in decline
Par for the course.

[Anonymous No.21368188]

>>21368184
>>21368180
It's a good thing that the Pope is bringing in all of those Africans! Look at France, and the renaissance that the Christian Africans there are sparking!

[Anonymous No.21368195]

>Fuck Dante
>Fuck Milton
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.21368201]

>>21368182
Anon, you're an atheist. And, given that you have already said that recognize the social utility of religion, but refuse to participate, you're pretty clearly an unintelligent one. You have a negative fertility rate. In a century, there will be no one like you. But, there will be people worshiping Odin. Why? Because people who worship Odin breed, and people like you don't. Your opinion simply doesn't matter. You can plug your ears and go LA LA LA when presented with this, but it's a simple fact.

You want to talk about religions that aren't capable of creating civilizations durable enough to survive interaction with other cultures? Look in the mirror, atheism can't even last a generation.

[Anonymous No.21368210]

>>21368183
Yep, that's OP alright. His cheeto dust caked fingers will try to type out a response, but a fine veil of mountain dew flavored sweat will form on his neanderthal-brow, and his poor heart, beaten down by a lifetime free of exercise and full of cholesterol, will finally give out. His last words will be "valhalla awaits", as he then goes to hell to be skull-fucked by demons for eternity.

[Anonymous No.21368220]

>>21368210
>His last words will be "valhalla awaits", as he then goes to hell to be skull-fucked by demons for eternity.
lmao

[Anonymous No.21368239]

>>21368201
Choosing not to particpate in all the social norms of the culture around you does not prevent you from contributing to it, I wouldn't prevent any children I might have from being religious, and I'm not against the idea of having faith, but since I've never experienced it, I won't attach myself to something I no affinity towards. Athiests will always arise in any culture, it's an inevitability, and the nonretards among us recognize why society is structured the way it is, and at the very least, don't make a big deal about believing in every aspect of it, just like the non neanderthal pagans do, but then there are retards like you, so obsessed with being counter-cultural, that you try to prop up a culture you don't even understand, in order to feel superior to those around you. You're boring, and you'll never contribute anything of substance to the world

[Anonymous No.21368256]

>>21367829
>>But Dante
>Fuck Dante
>>B-But Milton
>Fuck him too
>>You're ignoring 1700 years of cult-
>Judeo-Christianity will never be European.
Retard. They're clearly not epics, not because some moralising dislike of Christianity you have, but because they belong to a period of highly cultured ages which Dante's and Milton's story's and poetry are entirely created under.

[Anonymous No.21368268]

>>21367829
Doesn't even have most of the epic poems of Greece and Rome. No Odyssey, Argonautica, De Rerum Natura, Thebaid, Achilleid, Dyonisiaca, etc etc etc

[Anonymous No.21368270]

>>21368112
>Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.

[Anonymous No.21368279]

>>21368177
The reality that Christ’s sacrifice is no less atoning if less people accept it?

[Anonymous No.21368291]

>>21368239
>you'll never contribute anything of substance to the world
given that he is a pagan and a racist he is actually more likely than you are to do this as folkish pagans have a fertility rate of like 6 and atheists have one of -4

[Anonymous No.21368297]

>>21368279
The dude he's responding to is a "religion is a useful tool to control the plebs" fedora tipper. There's no "reality" to anything pertaining to religion, it's all just madeup woo to con the rubes. So yes, literally everything in any religion is worth less if less people accept it.

[Anonymous No.21368300]

>>21368268
>Thebaid, Achilleid
aren't those lost?

[Anonymous No.21368325]

>>21367970
Roman empire=ancient italy
Latins= italic tribe

[Anonymous No.21368372]

>>21368325
>Roman empire=ancient italy
Not necessarily true. Hispania was also part of the Roman Empire. Spaniards are as Roman as Italians.

[Anonymous No.21368414]

>>21367829
It really is incredible to see how some pagans (mostly online) get so flustered over Christianity because of its place and people of origin, but then turn around and behave exactly like the jews did against Jesus Christ. In their rejection, and animosity for the faith and its followers pagans are unironically more like jews than Christians.

[Anonymous No.21368422]

>>21368414
Lets be honest, most of these pagans just hate jewish people so much, the idea that any system of beliefs they engage in, might share any origin or beliefs with them, is enough to drive them to their current larping lifestyle

[Anonymous No.21368449]

>>21368414
I don't care what Jews think about us except in as much as they rule over my country and dumbfucks like you suck their dicks for it.

[Anonymous No.21368460]

>>21368112
Except it does say that. It also says it's okay to lie to non-jews, and here you are

[Anonymous No.21368474]

>>21368460
The Talmud says that several men name Yeshu, who despite doing everything that Jesus did, yet could not have been him because they were all either born after he died or died before he was born, are suffering various punishments, one of them being boiling in feces in hell. The Talmud does not say that Jews and polytheists worship the same deities, although it does say that Christians are polytheists and worship statues of Jesus.

That latter bit, alongside Avodah Zarah, is why the Talmud got banned, by the way.

[Anonymous No.21368481]

>>21368449
You missed the point entirely. You also write like a foul mouthed child, and so I could only assume you probably think and act like one too.

[Anonymous No.21368508]

>>21368481
No, I got the point, and responded to it. You're very concerned about what Jews think of you, and you want them to think highly of you, because you think that they are the superior Chosen People. I don't. I want them to leave us alone, and don't consider their opinions of us to matter. They have power over us, because people like you worship them. They use that power to hurt us. Thus, I am forced to be concerned about what they are thinking, because it's "how to hurt White people", and you Rod Dreher primitive root-wiener types will lap it up.

Don't want Pagans to make fun of you? Stop worshiping Jews.

[Anonymous No.21368524]

>>21367829
Why not just adopt Buddhism in large-scale? Some of the earliest Buddhists in the Kushan Empire were effectively half-white (steppe), half-Iranian, which is close to Yaghnobis.

[Anonymous No.21368534]

>>21368524
Some do. There's Neoplatonists, there's Buddhists, there's Hindu converts, etc. It's a pretty diverse sphere, it's just segregated off of the general alt-right milieu because Christfags go ballistic at anything that isn't Abrahamic.

[Anonymous No.21368558]

>>21368508
>You're very concerned about what Jews think of you,
Nope.
>you want them to think highly of you,
Nope.
>you think that they are the superior Chosen People
Nope.
>people like you worship them
Nope. Worship is for God alone, not man.
>Don't want Pagans to make fun of you? Stop worshiping Jews.
I don't, but I'm sure that won't stop you from finding a reason. You're stuck in the angry phase of the redpill, and it shows. I used to talk and think this way when I learned about the JQ (I still have a skull balaclava in the closet), and looking back on it now it's truly embarrassing. Drop your Turner Diaries copy off at the nearest Goodwill, and go hug your mom, anon.

[Anonymous No.21368565]

>>21368534
I think it's better to argue against them first from a philosophical or theological angle rather than politics.
You can bring up the political advantages later, such as how it benefits ethnic self-preservation, but it shouldn't be the main focus.
Religion should grow because it is the truth, or closest to it, and the Abrahamists do have a point that arguing purely from realpolitik or Machiavellian self-interest is disingenuous, since it relegates the truth under material benefit.
Philosophically speaking, Abrahamism is not tenable. Even a lot of Pre-Socratics are more easily defensible.

[Anonymous No.21368581]

>>21368565
Of course. Most of these mud-slinging discussions focus around the realpolitik angle because so many nerds fell for Moldbug's whole "pretend to be catholic to own the libtards" bit.

The unifying thread is truth: the Gods are real, and they are the source and center of cosmic order. This can be demonstrated due to the benefits, spiritual and, yes, physical, granted to people who follow their will. The higher level stuff is just that, higher level, and to be discussed by the people who are concerned with such things. Most of the population, quite frankly, won't care, or even really know the difference between high level intellectualism like "Neo-Platonism vs Buddhism".

[Anonymous No.21368582]

>>21368558
>Nope
Then say that White people should be allowed spaces to practice their native polytheistic religions and cultures unmolested by Jews.

[Anonymous No.21368591]

>>21367829
Who the FUCK considers the Comedy to be "epic poem" in the first place?

[Anonymous No.21368600]

>>21368414
The problem with christianity is not that it is jewish in origin, per se, but that it is jewish in spirit. Universalist religions obsessed with self-hate, being a cuckold who turns the other cheek, radical egalitarianism at all costs, etc. is a death sentence for any culture internalizing these values. And really, nobody asked for christianity before rulers outlawed every other religion under the threat of death.

What goes in the west right now probably wouldn't have happened if the west wasn't baptized into this unhealthy cuckold religion by fire and steel because it was useful to the ruling elite.

[Anonymous No.21368606]

>>21368582
I don't believe in forced integration to begin with, so yes. If a group of people want to gather on the grounds of race they should be allowed to.

[Anonymous No.21368631]

>>21368600
>Christianity is an unhealthy, cucked, weak religion that turns the other cheek
>also, the West would be better off had they not conquered everyone

[Anonymous No.21368632]

>>21368631
What did conquering Nigeria give Europe other than ~20 million Nigerians in France?

[Anonymous No.21368641]

>>21368600
Your entire post falls apart after like three google searches.

[Anonymous No.21368643]

>>21368632
>~20 million Nigerians in France
kek

[Anonymous No.21368647]

>>21368631
>Christianity is an unhealthy, cucked, weak religion that turns the other cheek

The enlightenment and modern liberalism never would have existed if not for christianity.

>also, the West would be better off had they not conquered everyone

Imperial ideology is hardly exclusive to christianity.

[Anonymous No.21368665]

>>21368581
We both agree that neither the Incarnation of that Jew nor the "Final Revelation" of that Bedouin are true. What is best is to question and attack the illegitimate foundations of such Abrahamic claims. For example, this post you made here is a poor argument: >>21368600
A Christian would just respond that contemporary Christianity has been twisted by unsavory organizations. It is not inconceivable this could occur among another tradition. You should instead attack the philosophical foundations of Christianity rather than point to its present corrupt state.
What this requires is more finesse in regards to rhetoric, experience, and philosophical comprehension. Moreover, in order to become efficient at dismantling your opponent's views, you must also read their apologetic works (e.g., Girard, Chesterton, and so on). This is a big time investment, but I do sense genuine zeal in you. However, it is best to temper that zeal and go through serious studying and practice.
If you want to lead a kind of revolution or inspire a movement that is highly critical of Abrahamism, then it is more advisable to get to the heart of matter: how Abrahamism serves as a detriment to the realization of the Absolute or "one's true nature".
For example, a Mahayana critique would be that Abrahamists treat liberation as external from the mind and contingent on accepting a lineage of Levantine prophets. The Mahayanist would argue the truth is found solely in the mind that clings to no ideations and dust ("sensation"), and to treat it as external fosters the delusion that there is something to "gain" in the flux of this world when one's true nature is always present (though presently obscured). This is a very rudimentary approach meant to serve as a sample.
What this requires is a thorough investigation and debunking of claims like hypostatic union (of Jesus), Tawheed (from Muhammad), and so on.
If you want to move beyond mere squabbling on imageboards, I could give some advice in that regard. I do understand what you're trying to do, but I think you need to sort it out more by engaging in more serious study and actually committing to a path. Arguing from resentment will not take you far.

[Anonymous No.21368666]

>>21368632
If it weren't for Christians the whole of Europe would've been Nigeria long before the British went there. Also, you think the British went to Nigeria because of Christianity? Surely you meme.

>>21368647
>The enlightenment and modern liberalism never would have existed if not for christianity.
The Romans had infanticide, slavery, and pederasty. Is that the trad paganism you wanna go back to that's so different than what we have today? The enlightenment and liberalism are an abandonment of Christianity.

>Imperial ideology is hardly exclusive to christianity.
You're correct. That has nothing to do with the point I was making, however.

[Anonymous No.21368693]

>>21368666
I just want a religion that does not make my wider cultural milieu worship jews to the point that they claim that they themselves are the true jews rather than the jews themselves, that does not make people obsessed with death, hating themselves, and apologizing for their existence at every step, and which does not ask them to be a cuckold of the soul, is that truly too much to ask?

>The enlightenment and liberalism are an abandonment of Christianity

They are a clear consequence of christianity, really, they are just taking the core tenets of christianity (such as globalization, homogenization, and egalitarianism at all costs) and radicalizing them in a secular garb.

Everything to do with christianity stinks of death, self-hate, and worshipping/emulating people who hate you.

[Anonymous No.21368709]

>>21368693
The self-hate, spending ones entire existence in misery and eternal apology for ones being really turns me off Christianity. Asking one to control their actions in the favor of others is fine and even good, but the recurring theme of being born a sinful, vile despicable creature with no hope of ones actions ever atoning for ones evil nature is inhuman and wrong.

[Anonymous No.21368718]

>>21368693
>I just want a religion that does not make my wider cultural milieu worship jews to the point that they claim that they themselves are the true jews rather than the jews themselves, that does not make people obsessed with death, hating themselves, and apologizing for their existence at every step, and which does not ask them to be a cuckold of the soul, is that truly too much to ask?
Have you tried, like, no religion?

[Anonymous No.21368734]

>>21368666
>If it weren't for Christians the whole of Europe would've been Nigeria long before the British went there
How? Nigeria's ballooning population is because Jews are telling Christians to grow food and ship it to Nigeria to balloon the population. If Europe didn't become Christian, not only would the Jews not be in charge of Europe/America (Because they'd just be another shitty desert tribe that got exterminated by Julian), but Europeans wouldn't adhere to an ideology of universal salvation and biological equality. They'd still be evil racist eugenic pagans who believed themselves to be separate from Africans.

>The Romans had infanticide, slavery, and pederasty.
And Europeans had all that through Christianity, I'm not sure what your point is.

[Anonymous No.21368739]

>>21368734
Europe would have been conquered by Muslims if it weren't for Christianity.

[Anonymous No.21368741]

>>21368693
You don't want Christianity as a religion because

>they're worshipping jews
>they're obsessed with death
>they're self hating
>they apologize for their existence at every step
>they're cucks of the soul
>they're globalists
>they're egalitarian at all costs

If you think that's what Christianity is then you simply don't understand it. What this is is looking at the biggest, and ugliest billboards of Christianity that you can find, and claiming that to be the case for the whole because you don't actually care to know the truth of it; you just don't like it. It's a strawman out of ignorance (or malevolence). It'd be like me dismissing conspiracy theories as a whole because I don't like Alex Jones or whatever.

[Anonymous No.21368759]

>>21368739
No it wouldn't. If there were no Christianity, there'd be no Islam, because there'd be nothing for Muhammad to rip off. If you're referring to Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours, that had nothing to do with Christianity, that was a Germanic warlord getting into a fight with a Moorish warlord (okay Germanic warlordS getting into a fight with Moorish warlordS). In fact, Martel only even agreed to do anything about the Umayyads after Odo (a Visigothic king to Francia's west that was getting invaded) agreed to declare himself Martel's vassal.

If you're referring to later, then no, Christianity didn't have anything to do with it outside of being a schelling point, and even then it wasn't a good one outside of some truly phenomenal alliance building by genius statesmen (like Lepanto) as Protestants and Catholics were both very happy to use the Muslims as a cudgel against their Christian enemies.

[Anonymous No.21368768]

>>21368741
>you're looking at christianity, seeing what it is, and not liking what you see!
So what's he supposed to see? Some kind of super based Russian Orthodoxy that you took up because it's exotic, weird, and so far removed from your daily life that it's meaningless? He's just supposed to ignore the Christianity that's been in his country for ~1800 years (I'm being generous and assuming that Armenians are White to give you a bigger number), that's practiced by the overwhelmingly vast majority of Christians in his country, in favor of some kind of orientalist edgelord stuff? How is this any different than Paganism? Your entire argument against Pagan religions is that engaging with them requires a personal desire to seek truth and perform rituals with out likeminded people, and then you tell him that this is bad and that he should be just going with the herd because it's "LARPy" (whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean) to do otherwise, but now you want him to go out and BEGOM Georgian Orthodox or whatever?

[Anonymous No.21368781]

>>21368734
>And Europeans had all that through Christianity, I'm not sure what your point is.
Yeah, until they didn't. My point is that many of the modern moral problems you have problems with which you claim came from Christianity (which is incorrect, it came from abandoning it) existed in the pagan cultures you want to return to. But since they had colosseums and statues and swords and le epic battles people forget they were disgusting degenerates. Flash forward 1,000 years from now it'd be like remembering the America of today as awesome because we had Aircraft Carriers. Give me a break, dude.

[Anonymous No.21368794]

>>21368734
>Nigeria's ballooning population is because Jews are telling Christians to grow food and ship it to Nigeria to balloon the population
>what 0 understanding of economy does to mf

[Anonymous No.21368804]

>>21368781
I'll give you this: yes, the Catholic opposition to abortion that was invented in the 1970s as part of Vatican 2's whole "we have to ~appeal to the voters~" thing is based, given that we are no longer living in a world in which White people have to make a choice between letting one infant starve to death or risking the entire family starving to death. Yes, I agree, killing babies is bad.

>it came from abandoning it
Mass immigration, weird sexual mores, and Jewish power aren't the result of abandoning Christianity, and are entirely congruent with it. They're just the results of Christians no longer being hamstrung by living under agrarian Feudalism. These things are the result of Christianity getting fossil fuels. You're the one doing the "America is based because aircraft carriers" because what you like about Christianity isn't the belief that humans are meat-robots piloted by a sexless luminous soul or whatever, you think it's based because an esoteric priesthood kept dumbasses from putting things in their butts.

A BASIC tenet of Christianity is the universal equality of man, that all humans were made in Yahweh's image, and that all humans need to be united in the same religious body, and need to view and treat each other as brothers. What do you think that looks like? When you remove the constraints of "I am tied to my land by my lord and need to farm or else I starve" because of fossil fuels, what do you think happens if you believe this? Why would it ever result in anything but this when you remove the restraints that kept it in line?

You don't like Christianity, you like the shackles that were put on it to keep it from turning into this. I don't blame you for not liking this, I don't like it either, but that is the way that it is.

Porn is just Jewish though, and if it weren't for Jews, we wouldn't be seeing all the weird sexual degeneracy that we see today, at least to the intensity.

[Anonymous No.21368810]

>>21368300
No, you can read them on the Latin Library if you want. Statius never finished the Achilleid though.

[Anonymous No.21368815]

>>21368794
https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/nigeria-agriculture-sector
>Nigeria relies on $10 billion of imports to meet its food and agricultural production shortfalls

[Anonymous No.21368831]

>>21368768
>So what's he supposed to see?
He should take some time out of his day to write down all of his concerns and questions regarding Christianity in a thoughtful manner, internalize them, and then find a local priest who would be willing to speak with him about them in earnest. Whatever arises out of that conversation will be leagues better than throwing around ignorant statements, and feminine insults back and forth with strangers on the internet.

[Anonymous No.21368858]

>>21368781
You actually compared colosseums with aircraft carriers? The cultural state of america, kek
>>21368804
>Porn is just Jewish though, and if it weren't for Jews, we wouldn't be seeing all the weird sexual degeneracy that we see today, at least to the intensity.
Imagine believing this, with a straight face
>>21368815
>USA relies on $34 billion of imports to meet its food and agricultural production shortfalls

[Anonymous No.21368871]

>>21368858
The US is a net food exporter (it's actually one of only three countries that do so, the other two being Canada and the Netherlands). Nigeria isn't, and pays for its food imports with Western aid. So, not only are Western countries paying for Nigeria's food, they're also making the food.

[Anonymous No.21368876]

>>21368858
>you compared an icon that everyone recognizes to another icon from another culture in another time that everyone also recognizes to make a simple point that I'm too retarded to get?
Yeah, yeah I did.

[Anonymous No.21368884]

>>21368871
>The US is a net food exporter

[Anonymous No.21368888]

>>21368876
>aircraft carrier is an icon
see above
>The cultural state of america, kek

[Anonymous No.21368922]

>>21368888
Except it is. It's not the only one, and it's not one you have to like. Military is a big part of culture. Most people don't know anything about Rome, but they've heard of Roman Legions.

[Anonymous No.21368934]

How many of our new friends from /pol/ actually read? Be honest, what kind of books do you read on a daily basis? I'm not really offended by your opinions, but it doesn't sound like many of you read much outside of holocaust denial literature and eugenics textbooks from 100 years ago. If you like reading that kind of stuff that's fine, I believe in having diverse perspectives and viewpoints on /lit/, but please tell me you've read at least one novel, play, or book of poems in the past month.

[Anonymous No.21368946]

>>21368884
us exports cheap calorie rich things like cereals and imports expensive exotic food which has less bang for it's buck than cereals

[Anonymous No.21369020]

>Mahabharata

[Anonymous No.21369742]

>>21367829
Beowulf is a Christian poem. Do you even read?

[Anonymous No.21369750]

>>21367829
Beowulf isn't an epic.

[Anonymous No.21369772]

>>21367904
celts never existed

[Anonymous No.21369776]

>>21368210
>Yep, that's OP alright. His cheeto dust caked fingers will try to type out a response, but a fine veil of mountain dew flavored sweat will form on his neanderthal-brow, and his poor heart, beaten down by a lifetime free of exercise and full of cholesterol, will finally give out. His last words will be "valhalla awaits", as he then goes to hell to be skull-fucked by demons for eternity.

[Anonymous No.21369780]

>>21367829
Based but it's worth considering how Dante and Milton cleaved away from dogma to write their epics. The polytheistic European spirit really shines through in their works to create what is more or less Christian fanfiction.

[Anonymous No.21369840]

>>21367829
You understand Beowulf is a Christian text right?

[Anonymous No.21369879]

>>21368804
I have never seen someone so ignorant yet so convinced about his own knowledge regarding a topic he knows nothing about.
>Sexless souls
The ellimination of sexual reproduction in the eschaton in no way implies that sexual differentiation is to be rejected nor made evil on principle. Christianity recognizew the influence of the body to not mention that saints keep their sexes in the afterlife. Mary is an excelent example of a femenine archetype fully bound to the christian tradition, realizing motherhood and bridehood as an ideal. The entire inner war is to subjugate the unruly, bodily passions that threaten the soul throught temptation, something it has in common with roman and greek ascetic philosophies. Your idea comes from protestant puritanism, that bears no relation nor commonality with historical christianity.
>Weird sexual mores
Christianity always, even before the middle ages and the roman church, condemned fornication, sodomy and orgies as demonic, practices common in the pagan world that also were seen as sinful by the hebrews. These mores are not shackles put in place and I don't see from whee you get this idea, unless you mean gnostics, who were seen as heretics and demons by everyone else.
>Universality
Any claim of truth ought to be universal, else is invalid. Your relativistic paganisn can give no metaphysical certainty nor a solid worldview precisely because it sees the spirit as a relative, cultural truth that can give no objective experience of the absolute to man. Your neo paganism is self defeating and merely a tool of the culture wars
You claim and claim and claim empty billboards, yet I don't see a single argument in favor of paganism being true. Not convenient. Not based. Just true.

[Anonymous No.21369884]

>>21367872
If a Christian spits on something it doesn't make it Christian, it makes it dirty.

[Anonymous No.21369889]

>>21368934
>holocaust denial literature and eugenics textbooks
>Implying they even read those
It's just shitposts on the internet they read
I bet OP didn't even read any of those poemz in the image completely

[Anonymous No.21369893]

>>21369884
Your criteria for what is pagan and what is christian relies only on the arbitrary judgement of whatever you consider cool or violent. Your worldview has no basis besides superficial aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.21369904]

>>21368508
>Don't want Pagans to make fun of you? Stop worshiping Jews.
lmao implying average Christians even care about some larpers on the internet beneath their notice

[Anonymous No.21369918]

>>21367829
Kalevala is literally about how Finland rejects paganism and embraces Christianity, it's why Väinämöinen leaves in the end. They choose Kiesus (Christ) as their new king.

[Anonymous No.21369923]

>>21368768
Pro jewish movements in christianity date at best from the 1800. Previous to this the only positive comments related to jews converting and abandoning thalmudism, this amist very harsh critiques and sometimes violence. You are looking at a modern geopolitical anglo phenomenon and saying that, despite only existing for 200 years at best, christians defending modern pharisees is something at the core of the faith.
This level of ignorance and lack of vision is awe-inducing.

[Anonymous No.21369950]

>>21369918
Pretty obvious OP never even read any of those

[Anonymous No.21369957]

>>21368666
>If it weren't for Christians the whole of Europe would've been Nigeria long before the British went there.
Explain?

[Anonymous No.21370031]

Have there been any efforts put towards resurrecting neoplatonism as a religion, like the emperor Julian tried to? It should work considering neoplatonism is very much like christianity, sans the cuckoldry, self-hate, and jew worship.

[Anonymous No.21370037]

>>21370031
I mean, Nietzsche did call christianity platonism for the masses in Beyond Good and Evil.

[Anonymous No.21370065]

>>21370031
>Cuckoldry, self hate, jew worship.
These are meme words with no actual relation to christianity as explained above. I wonder if you would dare say the same against the ascetic philosophies of the greek and roman world, far less fond of copulation and hedonism than christianity, and almost misanthropic in nature.
Ala, your entire position is nothing but cheap polemics repeated again and again without historicity to back them up, basically campaign slogans. The arguments here are probably wasted, given that neo pagans very rarely seek truth, obsessed as they are with political tools and ethnos.

[Anonymous No.21370123]

>>21367829
>the poetic edda
Why not Sweden?
>Finland
Does not exist, eastern Sweden

[Anonymous No.21370222]

>>21370031
Before Julian the classics were taught in every school in the empire. Hundreds of advanced centers of learning continuing all these traditions.
After Julian the classics were not just forgotten but actively rejected as harmful. The perceived dichotomy persists to this day undermining both understanding of the classics and ancient Christian scholars.

[Anonymous No.21370374]

>>21370123
>Why not Sweden?
i started learning swedish last year. anything to recommend?

[Anonymous No.21370521]

>>21369879
You've just proved my point. A soul is an androgynous, luminous thing, that is only piloting a foul, disgusting meat-body. For a time, Christians had to simply deal with it, and come up with elaborate methods to cope with this. But, now, we have all sorts of powerful medical techniques. What happens? Well, exactly what people were pointing out could happen back in 200AD: you can do whatever you want with your body. Christians had all sorts of bizarre views on sex, such as it being evil, the family being a foul construct that needs to be destroyed? Oh, but they HAVE to deal with it, and come up with copes, otherwise society collapses? Well, luckily we don't need to do that anymore! And then, you just admit that, yes, I am right about the universalism, and what we are seeing is the result of it.

So again: you don't actually like Christianity, you like the idealized society that was produced as a result of hamstringing Christianity with reality. At best, you're just using "Christianity" as a stand-in for "morality". If that's the case, then why bother with "Christianity" at all? You obviously don't believe in it.

>yet I don't see a single argument in favor of paganism being true
People throughout the thread have been saying that the Gods are real and that you can interact with them. But then, you don't really care about truth, you're trying to engineer society. You're a wannabe-technocrat.

[Anonymous No.21370696]

>>21370521
Words are made by humans meaning is not. The map is not the territory.

[Anonymous No.21371259]

>>21370696
Correct. And no matter how much cope you come up with, "the soul is an androgynous being of pure light trapped in a physical body" will always result in the same end.

[Anonymous No.21371269]

>>21370521
LMAO this answer is even more stupid than what I expected in the first place.

>A soul is an androgynous, luminous thing, that is only piloting a foul, disgusting meat-body.

Do you, rootless larper, even read what I said in my post? Sexual differentiation is preserved in heaven and preserved in the afterlife, and yes, also preserved in the eschaton. There is no major christian denomination that affirms a cease or the complete transformation of human beings into androgynous luminous creatures, and this completely gnostic perception you are describing is not the result of christianity, whose sexual theology is derived from ancient hebrew religion, but from gnostic sects influenced by platonism, a completely european philosophy.
Christianity doesnt and has never considered the body as something on principle evil, unlike, once again, the perfectly gnostic ideologies your so beloved europeans spoused. Both christianity and judaism considered bodily existence to be on principle good and, surprise, in the eschaton we don't like as angels, but as bodily, sexed beings, even if reproduction is no more present.

>Christians had all sorts of bizarre views on sex.

Gnostic sects had, gnostic sects that were condemned openly by mainstream christianity and fought till death by the Church Fathers, gnostic sects that drank deeply from your european philosophies, the philosophies that luckily for the west, actual christianity redeemed or else this mess you see would have happened even earlier. You are talking out of your ass without even the slightest clue of how ancient religion worked.

>People throughout the thread have been saying that the Gods are real and that you can interact with them

How do you know they are not demons? How do you know the saintly apparitions of christianity aren't real? Fool, supernaturalism will get you nowhere. A worldview is proven throught philosophy, and yours is utterly relativistic at its core, thus, invalidating even the possibility of affirming any kind of divinity as objective existence. Your accusation of me using christianity as "morality" is a projection of your own mindset, using "paganism" as an stand in for value you agree with, despite actual paganism having no moral standarts with cults swinging from hardcore monogamy to gay buttsex.
The irony of you telling me that I don't believe in christianity, when are you, pagans, the ones that rationalize and turn your own deities intro phsychological archetypes!.

[Anonymous No.21371279]

>>21371259
And I repeat: Christianity never believed this. What you are describing is gnosticism, condemned by christianty.
This is all the proof I need. You get all your knowledge about religion from online shitposts.

[Anonymous No.21371342]

>>21371269
>>21371279
>Sexual differentiation is preserved in heaven and preserved in the afterlife
No, it isn't. That's the problem: you have no idea what it's talking about. In Mormonism, sure, but no, historically, Christians have not believed this. The entire reason that Christians, actual Christians which you are not, make fun of Mormons and their whole "you stay married in heaven" bit is because you do not in fact stay married in heaven because there is no gender in heaven.

You could have cracked open the fucking Bible and seen where it talks about this, but you didn't, because your entire idea of Christianity is just "the Imperial Creed from Warhammer 40k". That's what people have been making fun of you for this entire thread: you aren't actually interested in Christianity, you just like the aesthetics of a specific historical period, and like goofy stuff like priesthoods speaking ancient languages. You don't care about what actually brought about those societies, and where they end up.

[Anonymous No.21371355]

>>21371342
Post a single Christian philosopher who thought that there was no marriage in heaven.