/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2136156]

Where the fuck did empathy and altruism come from? How is it possible that they even exist? Has anybody ever bothered to try and answer these questions?

[Anonymous No.2136158]

Yes. Kroptokin's Mutual Aid.

[Anonymous No.2136162]

It's pretty simple. Two heads is better than one, therefore the two beings with features suited to co-operation outcompete those who cannot co-operate.

[Anonymous No.2136164]

>>2136162
I beg to differ. If you can learn anything from looking at the world today, it is that the greatest bastard always wins.

[Anonymous No.2136181]

evolution and shit

[Anonymous No.2136197]

Have you ever interacted with a 4 year old child? They are incapable of feeling any form of sympathy for another being. If they aren't taught empathy, they continue being awful beings the rest of their lives. It has to be a cultural thing. But how can that be true in a culture were the ruthless are better off?

[Anonymous No.2136202]

Kin selection. Also >>>/sci/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology

[Anonymous No.2136209]

>>2136197
You may be mistaking the development of the human mind for cultural influence. Toddlers and such are incapable of empathy because they are in the stage of egocentrism. True, if they exist in a vacuum somewhere and never become familiar with other beings, they won't ever learn empathy. But even if the concept is never explained to them, they can learn empathy simply from observation. It may be a less formalized concept if, for instance, they never actually interact with humans and develop their ability, but I think it's safe to say there is an inherent ability in people to try and understand each other.

[Anonymous No.2136214]

Has anyone heard of the Milgram experiment?

[Anonymous No.2136245]

>>2136214
the milgram experiment was more to do with the testing of how far authoritarian control can be taken and the dehumanization effect. It wasn't so much to do with empathy or a lack there of but rather whether the subject will stand up to the authority and say no this is wrong and this will kill them.

as for altruism and empathy, it is argued by evolutionists that these feelings are part of a deeper subconcious desire to fulfill ones self however disguising this feel in the veil of charity and humanitarian work. Dawkins says that basically altruism is either a manifestation of a subconcious desire or a result of societal conformity and expectations because the idea of survival of the fittest cannot work when the strongest are aiding and allowing the weakest members of the world to survive.

[Anonymous No.2136255]

>>2136164
... by exploiting others, i.e. obtaining their cooperation.

[Anonymous No.2136266]

>>2136214
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

This one is even more interesting.

[Anonymous No.2136270]

>>2136197
>But how can that be true in a culture were the ruthless are better off?

Well that's a pretty strong assertion, that the ruthless are necessarily better off. It's probably true to a point, but often it helps to at least be perceived as empathetic if you want to get along in life. I might possibly buy that modern culture values and encourages ruthlessness.

[Anonymous No.2136273]

>>2136270
>modern culture values and encourages ruthlessness.
If anything, ruthlessness was more encouraged in "the old days".

[Anonymous No.2136274]

The brain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

[Anonymous No.2136284]

We use our own understanding of feelings, intentions, and desires as a substitute for another persons feelings, intentions, and desires. We base this off of cues in their behavior. When a person acts one way, we infer their feelings from that action.

Consider the fact that in the the neocortex, areas becomes active when we watch another person reach for and grab an object. Some of the active areas are the same places we use to reach for and grab objects ourselves. A network connects our visual understanding of the action, with a network representing the intention of the action. This is the seed of empathy, being able to use sensory cues to understand the action and intention of another person. We can also infer their emotions and desires.

The problem is that we necessarily frame others within our own constructs of emotion and intention. If we are really critical and mean and judgement, others seem that way too. If we are greedy and power-hungry, other people seem the same way. It's why it is so hard to really understand another person.

[Anonymous No.2136959]

Recommended reading.