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/lit/ - Literature

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21358423 No.21358423 [Reply] [Original]

>just transcend the world of illiusion to reach nirvana bro
Was early buddhism pretty much pure gnosticism? The “no-self” doctrine of the Abhidharma seems part and parcel of an exclusively gnostic path, culminating in complete withdrawal from (and condemnation of) samsara and the manifest realm.

It was only during Nagarjuna's nondual revolution that buddhists cottoned on to the idea that nirvana and samsara are "not two", and that 'spirit' is more perfect in the world than out of it.

>> No.21358436

>uncompromising dualism slackens into monism
Many such cases. Look at what they did to my boy Basilides.

>> No.21358442

>>21358436
M*nism is a mental illness. Radical duality is the natural, intuitive and visceral worldview of man.

>> No.21358443

>>21358442
But symphonies and pretty flowers, though.

>> No.21358452

>>21358423
What's with this influx of wikipedia skimmers calling anything gnosticism?

>> No.21358455

>>21358443
Worldly beauty confirms the existence of an irreconcilable duality, honestly. That beauty is necessarily transient and mostly (if not always) predicated on suffering and death is a dead giveaway that its nature is that of a demiurgic simulacrum or, at best, a temporary invasion of darkness by light, which eventually gets drowned and erodes back into the world's default state (evil)

>> No.21358463 [DELETED] 

>>21358455
I'd like to believe it wasn't always this way, and that coincidence of suffering/beauty and death is not isotropic throughout the universe. Even the Buddhists believed it was the desire for food and sex that coarsened our atmospheric bodies and plunged future generations into the womb.

>> No.21358467

>>21358455
I'd like to believe it wasn't always this way, and that the coincidence of beauty and death is not isotropic throughout the universe. Even the Buddhists believed it was the desire for food and sex that coarsened our atmospheric bodies and plunged future generations into the womb.

>> No.21358475

>>21358463
I tend to see the escape as implying an exit from material existence entirely, but the idea of our situation being anomalous in the universe is a more hopeful one

>> No.21358531

>>21358475
That's the idea. I still waffle between a pro-cosmic Orphic Gnosticism which understands the current state of things as just a fallen transform of true nature, and the acosmic blackpilled Gnosticism you're talking about. M*nistrannyism is really a degraded form of the former: the Universe, as opposed to the World, redeems just because it is not the World, but it still exists. It is still material, just not 'infra-material.' It's concentric in this way. I escape from a smaller, more limited sphere to a more expansive one, while I think uncompromising OG gnosticism is just about exiting all spheres altogether and forever.

>> No.21358546

>>21358423
GNosticism is based and tradpilled.

>> No.21358555

>>21358531
I don't see OG acosmism as a blackpill as long as you see it as an inevitability: the anomaly will be resolved, the wound will be healed, we will return home. It seems that pro-cosmic gnosticism is a first step towards absolute rejection anyway, much like exiting the first sphere sets you up for exiting them all in the end.
Surely we can settle for a pro-cosmic view as of right now, although it carries the risk of our resolve becoming lukewarm.

>> No.21358556
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21358556

>>21358531
What are you doing to escape this terribly evil reality in which you've decided to cut yourself off from a union between transcendence and immanence?

>> No.21358582

>>21358556
>union between transcendence
M*nistranny drivel. Voegelin's oeuvre has been a disaster for the human race.

>>21358555
It doesn't have to be either/or, just like dualism and monism don't have to be either/or in Hermetic studies, more like nodes on a chain.

>> No.21358599

>>21358582
>M*nistranny drivel.
t. too lazy to meditate and have direct experiences of nondual states of awareness, would rather just stew in his bitter sci-fi LARP

>> No.21358613
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21358613

>>21358423
nirvana is just another form of valhalla or any other indo-european pagan concept of "heaven"
buddha irl was a white man with baby blue eyes

>> No.21358627

>>21358599
>meditation doesn't make him even more of a gnostic
sad

>> No.21358790

>>21358599
awareness is always non-dual, it's not a state to be 'entered into' but it is rather an ever-present reality to be noticed

>> No.21358832

somebody please tell me PLEASE WHAT THE FUCK IS DUALITY OR MONISM I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I'M FUCKING DERANGED I NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BUT I CANNOT

>> No.21358842

>>21358832
>there is just one thing
>akshually theres TWO things
behold the power of philosophags and religioncucks

>> No.21358881

They're extremely similar. The Buddhist explanation for how we fell into this state of ignorance is exactly like the Gnostic cosmology.

>> No.21359410

>>21358423
>no-self
more like no-cel amirite?

>> No.21359481

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN72.html

>> No.21359592

>transcend
>illusion
>reach
Big oof

>> No.21360060

it is if you say it is, and it is not if you do not.

>> No.21360070

all eastern spirituality is just cope for breakinf your back in a rice field while pastoralists raped your wife

>> No.21360470

>>21358443
Both boring desu. What about reflections of sunlight in puddles? Is that predicated on suffering? Actually, what about sunlight at all? Just sun shining on things?

>> No.21360478

>>21358842
binary vs quantum mechanics
unity of opposites vs idk entropy
some crap analogy
comparative semantics used to wrench people out of rigid dogma
maybe we could play negative 20 questions
really people are just arguing if causality is valid or eternalism (of properties) is a thing

>> No.21360678

What do you think about watching gore videos and the like as to not turn a blind eye to reality and becoming disillusioned? It has strengthened my resolve that the world is an evil place but it has also traumatized me.
Parents will spawn children into the world and say don't look at stuff such as that, and these deceived children will grow up to have their own. It's like those vegan activist who have TV's showing animals being killed in factories, people will either get angry at seeing, turn away and repress or admit the bitter truth.

>> No.21360762

Is there a word for the feeling that is something like 'there must be more to life' but more so in a metaphysical sense like there must be more colours and sensation etc. Being human is very limiting and I am always surprised at how little we know. I don't know how properly to explain this because I am silly.

>> No.21360817

>>21360678
theravada buddhists meditate on corpses and decay and frailty and disgustingness of the human body as a part of mindfulness

>> No.21360849

>>21360762
It's possible to trick your brain into perceiving s never before seen color. Looks up impossible colors. It's the real deal. I saw a color I've never seen before. .
>>21360470
It's a good question. What suffering is the beauty of a star predicated on?

>> No.21360856

>>21360678
I think it's based.

>> No.21361695

>>21360849
the light of the sun burns us
Maybe a star's beauty is so pure that the flesh cannot stand it

>> No.21361702

>>21361695
That's true but stars don't have to burn living beings to survive. Stars take Chekhov's middle path.