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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2133422 [Reply] [Original]

Does it bother you if an author is a wife-beater or raging homophobe in his personal life?

>> No.2133427

No. We love all sorts of authors who made questionable decisions in life. I think number one around these parts would be that vile racist Lovecraft.

there's cognitive dissonance between accepting the work and rejecting the author. Plus, if you believe in Barthes and all those cats, then it doesn't matter that the author was crazy.

>> No.2133433

>>2133422
Yeah. It does but there are degrees to it. In the case of Orson Scott Card, for example, I don't hate him because he's a homophobe. He's certainly become a vitriolic dirtbag. But I could probably overlook it if everything he had written since 1989 or so wasn't such total trash.

I can respect a wife-beater more than I can respect a homophone, in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.2133440
File: 18 KB, 297x400, WilliamBurroughs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>Does it bother you if an author is a wife-killer or raging homo in his personal life?

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

>> No.2133476

>>2133422

In general I don't like people who abuse others or are bigots.

As for disliking books written by these people?Sometimes, yeah. Mostly when it comes through in their work.

>> No.2133483

>>2133427
I was reading "The Rats in the Walls" on the bus. I felt so nervous every time "Nigger-Man" was on the page, because people around me could kind of see the words on my Kindle.

>> No.2133492

I read Ender's Game last week and loved it, even though I found out half-way through the book that he's a homophobe. But that he's a wife beater is news to me, sauce?

Funnily, Ender's Game had so much homosexual subtext, I nearly creamed myself.

>> No.2133498

>>2133492
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply he was a wife beater. I was just thinking of Hunter S Thompson for example and when I posted this there was a post on the front page saying George Eliot was a wife-beater.

>>2133405

>> No.2133499

faggots are a made up minority so liberals can weep over fellow upper class frivilous dipshits

>> No.2133501

>>2133498
Ah, it was my mistake. I'm don't know that much about author's personal lives which is why I just assumed Orson as well.

>> No.2133502

>>2133498
But Wikipedia says George Eliot was a pen-name for Mary Anne Evans. Must have been a joke that went over my head.

>> No.2133505

>>2133492
I found that really funny in Enders' game, too. Gay as fuck shower wrestling, and still a great read.

I read the Enders' saga up to the end, started on Bean and stopped... I think, at the death of Achillies. Like, one or two books from the end. When the antagonist at the end was basically abortion doctors and eugenics, I tuned out.

Nowdays, Card pretty much only puts out ideologically driven bullshit. None of this newer stuff is worth reading.

>> No.2133509

>>2133502
Unless they meant the character Silas Marner beat his wife. I've only vaguely heard of that novel before.

>> No.2133511

IDGAF

>> No.2133512

Depends on the circumstances. Orson Scott Card, for example, is such a douchebag I literally cannot enjoy his writing any more. Not that there was much to enjoy to begin with...

>> No.2133514

>>2133505
Seriously, how can a homophobe write something this gay? Naked shower wrestling with a boy who was repeatedly described as beautiful and then there was Alai, whom Ender "loved".

>> No.2133518
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>>2133512
>I have not read Ender's Game, and prefer to make snap judgments based on political ideology rather than anything that involves real thought and effort

Okay then.

>>2133514
I've had a really hard time getting a gay friend of mine to read the book because of Card's ideology, but now that you mention it, Card's obvious and hilarious latent homosexuality in the book might just do the trick.

>> No.2133520

>>2133514
Ender also kissed a boy, if I remember rightly. Was that Alai? Idk, ages since I read the book.

>> No.2133523

well assuming proper marriage, what's ethically, not legally, wrong with either?

>>2133440
lol

>> No.2133529

>>2133440
Did he beat his wife before he "accidentally" shot her?

>> No.2133533

>>2133520
Pretty sure Alai kissed Ender. Oh wait, just found the passage.

>Alai suddenly kissed Ender on the cheek and whispered in his ear, “Salaam.” Then, red-faced, he turned away and walked to his own bed at the back of the barracks.

All that "Salaam" whispering thorugh the head phones was incredibly gay, too. Or how Bernard notices Shen's wiggling butt.

Orson is a complete closet case.

>> No.2133545

bothers me if they're mormons; full grown men thinking they are going to turn into fertile planets after they die should be a basis for a science fiction novel, not a religion, imho

>> No.2133546

>>2133498
>Hunter Thompson being a wife beater
Wow, I didn't know about that. Welp.

To answer your question, any questionable act from an artist whose work I'm reading/watching/listening to bothers me, but I try to separate that from the actual enjoying of said work, whenever possible.
For example, when you mention Thompson, being a wife beater is probably not even the worse thing he did... His books are filled with harmful stuff he or his friends did to others.

>> No.2133549

>>2133492
take off your rose-colored glasses, nancy

>> No.2133555

>>2133549
Hi Orson.

>> No.2133561

Knut Hamsun was a Nazi sympathizer but I still like his books anyway.

>> No.2133575 [DELETED] 

>>2133561
>2011
>Thinks Nazi sympathizers are bad
ISHYGDDT

>> No.2133582

>>2133575
I'm a leftist and I'm not white, so I can't say that I hold Nazis and their sympathizers in high regard.

>> No.2133585

>>2133561
you probably love Riefenstahl then

>> No.2133593

>>2133582

you could apply national socialism to your own people. You probably have a complete misconception of german history anyway.

>> No.2133599

>>2133593
I don't believe in my "own people."

>> No.2133610 [DELETED] 
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thoughts on eugenics?

>> No.2133622

>>2133599

Why, are you from a low tier race? Why not have some pride in who you are?

>> No.2133636

>>2133622
>Why not have some pride in who you are?
Why not have some pride in what you achieve in life and not what you are?

>> No.2133660

>>2133622
No, it's because I place little value on race and I don't care much for ethnic nationalism.

>> No.2133662

>>2133636
This. Pride should be reserved for one's own accomplishments.

>> No.2133672

I still love Ezra Pound, haters gon hate

>> No.2133731

>>2133662
>>2133636

That's a gutless argument, I hope you are not socialists. Your ethnic heritage is part of who you are, you cannot have pride in yourself without having some pride in your heritage.

>> No.2133763

>>2133731
What are you wittering on about, you aspie spastic?

>> No.2133799

I liked Ender's Game, Ender's Shadow, and all the sequels to Ender's Shadow (but the sequels to Ender's Game were spotty at best). Card is a douche. Don't care. I like some of his books, but I don't want his autograph.

>>2133433
>I can respect a wife-beater more than I can respect a homophone, in the grand scheme of things.
I'm a lesbian, and what the fuck? One has an offensive belief. The other physically assaults someone on a regular basis. How the fuck do you think the first is worse than the second?

>> No.2133807

>>2133763

What's so hard to understand you effeminate faggot?

>> No.2133809

>>2133799
>A homophone is a word that is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning.

>> No.2133814

At least someone who beats their wife or that has racist views or something is passionate, not like you pacifist faggots.

>> No.2133826

>>2133799
Not the guy you're responding to, but homophobia hurts the planet, whereas a guy beating a woman hurts that woman only.

>> No.2133830

>>2133814
Stop samefagging. It's obnoxious, go back to stormfront.

>> No.2133832

>>2133582
>>2133599
>>2133636
>>2133660
>>2133763
ITT: feed the troll

>> No.2133833

>>2133826
What if that woman is mother nature?

>> No.2133837

>>2133833
Who's mother nature husband?

>> No.2133842

>>2133837
Jesus? Allah? Yahweh? Buddha? Other?

Like I know, but I hear she gets around.

>> No.2133857

>>2133842
>mother nature being beaten by some weak ass deity
>also, mother nature actually belonging to one gender.
Mother nature would place her testicles over allah's forehead anytime.

>> No.2133855

>>2133826
Wouldn't he have to have mysoginistic views to want to beat his wife? And what about gay-bashing? Would one instance of gay-bashing be better than homophobia because it only hurt that one gay person?

>> No.2133861

>>2133857
go back 2 /sci/ you freaking robot

>> No.2133865

>>2133855
>Wouldn't he have to have mysoginistic views to want to beat his wife?
I don't know. Can't someone just be fucking pissed at a woman if he beats her?
>And what about gay-bashing? Would one instance of gay-bashing be better than homophobia because it only hurt that one gay person?
... No, because "gay bashing" is by definition driven by homophobia.

>> No.2133867

>>2133830

I'll leave this this shitty circle jerk of narrow minded shit. As a closing point I would like to point out that most people here are clearly of above average intelligence however they are not that smart as it is resonating that clearly everything you have ever learnt in life has come from a book. You're not intelligent, pacifism is not enlightenment. I came here to discus literature however it seems that there are only select views allowed to be heard.

And for the record, you all sound like whiny jews

>> No.2133873

>>2133865
What if it's driven by peer pressure?

>> No.2133874

>>2133867
asl?

>> No.2133878

>>2133873
Homophobia is mostly the result of peer pressure... Because other people are homophobic and you become homophobic too. Last thing you know you're mocking some kid with an earring because everyone does so.
I suppose we're going to a dead end with this.

>> No.2133887

>>2133878
But if you only think people are homophobic, but they're not, then...??

>> No.2133894

>>2133887
I think if you believe people are homophobic, but they're not, so you start to be homophobic too, you're probably an overanalyzing asspie.
... Not that it doesn't happen.

>> No.2133896

>>2133894
So the issue in aspergers...

>> No.2133899

>>2133865
You're right. There are psycho women who assault their men and there is same-sex domestic violence.

>> No.2133911
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>>2133896
Or in being plain, old dumb.
>>2133899
Can't tell if sarcasm.

>> No.2133914

For me, personally? Yes. If an author does something to lose my respect for him/her as a person, I lose my respect for him/her as an author. It works inverted, too, but not vice-versa.

>> No.2133929

>>2133826
contender for wussiest post EVAR; i can almost hear you crying as you posted that nonsense

>> No.2133936

Not sure if it's ever happened to me. Except for obvious cases where it's an author from an older era, like Lovecraft.

Does finding out Samuel R. Delany is black count

>> No.2133937

No, I can judge people based on many things. A good writer =/= good person.

>> No.2133947

>>2133936
WHERE'S THE SPOILER WHEN YOU NEED IT???

lol j/k idk who that is

>> No.2133951

>>2133936
He's also gay

>> No.2133953

>>2133947
>later than 1970
>not read any SRD

>> No.2133956

>>2133951
Yeah found out both as same time when found a pic of him half naked holding a huge rod

>> No.2133966

>>2133953
>2011
>exlusively reads gay black male fiction

>> No.2133972

>>2133966
>/lit/
>straw man
oh wait

>> No.2133976

>>2133953
and i've read thousands of sf books in my time. thousands. this guy never crossed my radar. does he sell his books out of a 1972 pontiac in Harlem?

>> No.2133978
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[ERROR]

How exactly can an author BE a wifebeater? Did you mean
>does it bother you if an author WEARS a wifebeater?
Because that makes more sense. As for the raging homosexual part... I won't even touch that one.

>> No.2133987
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>>2133976
so mad at idea of missin 1 book
lolol
go read this and stop ur bitchin

>> No.2133993

>>2133976
No. He's extremely well-known and popular in science fiction fandom, the winner of multiple major awards, etc. If you've never heard of him, fine. The universe has simply never put him in front of you. It happens. But don't try to turn it around and make out like there's something wrong with HIM because you've never heard of him. That's idiotic. It's bush-league. And it does nothing but make you look like an asshole.

>> No.2134030
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[ERROR]

I think it's great if a good artist or a writer is also an awful human being. It's a nice surprise. Look at Céline or Dalí.

The real tragedy is when brilliant thinkers write shitty books.

>> No.2134051

>>2133993

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

>> No.2134057

>>2134030
>It's a nice surprise. Look at Céline
I thought Céline's books were all about him being awful.
I mean, it's not really a surprise when it's all he talks about.

>> No.2134058

>>2133498
I know I'm very late asking this, but when did Hunter S. Thompson beat his wife(s)? This is news to me. Still a badass journalist regardless, no matter what.

>> No.2134062
File: 1.94 MB, 1922x4010, burroughs_article.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
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Fuck beating your wife - William S. Burroughs fucking SHOT his wife - IN THE FUCKING FACE, FOR LULZ. And he was a raging homosexual, but not homophobe.

Ah, Bill, what a character, eh?

>> No.2134065

I still haven't read anything by Burroughs yet. feelsbadman. What should I start with?

>> No.2134069

>>2134057

It's surprising because you don't have a very high expectation for someone like him to create valuable fiction.

In a way it's almost nicer if the author of a great piece of literature is psychopathic or stupid. The unexpectedness adds a new dimension to the appreciation of the book which is intangible for authors who are geniuses, and so from them you expect genius.

I don't think it should be redemptive, however.

>> No.2134076

>>2134065

Naked Lunch is what everyone else starts with. Enjoy your hangings and sperm and anal mucus.

>> No.2134094

>>2134062
>William S. Burroughs fucking SHOT his wife - IN THE FUCKING FACE, FOR LULZ.
Really? Because the way anyone ever describes it is that they were both wasted and playing at target practice and he tried to shoot a glass off her head and missed.

>> No.2134113

>>2134094
>missed
Libelous.

>> No.2134120

>>2134094

what the fuck is 'william tell' anyway?

>> No.2134124

>>2134120
It's a game where you look something up on the internet.

>> No.2134128

>>2134094
>And I had that terrible accident with Joan Vollmer, my wife. I had a revolver that I was planning to sell to a friend. I was checking it over and it went off—killed her. A rumor started that I was trying to shoot a glass of champagne from her head William Tell-style. Absurd and false.

http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4424/the-art-of-fiction-no-36-william-s-burroughs

>> No.2134134

>>2134124

oh shit it's that apple shooting game?

fucking americans, man.

>> No.2134142

>>2134065
His autobiographical stuff like Junky and Queer is definitely easiest to start with.

>> No.2134159
File: 52 KB, 500x500, gonzo_hunter_s_thompson_biog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
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>>2134058
This book claims that he did.

>> No.2134166

It would bother me if he is beaten by his wife and is homosexual.

>> No.2134197

>>2134166

That's the way most heterosexual marriages are. The man is abused by his wife, so he seeks relief and escape in the arms of other men.

>> No.2134206

>>2134197
usually young men because they seem comparatively less threatening. and i guess it must seem like heaven compared to the imprisonment and woman.

>> No.2135207
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Not at all

>> No.2135248
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I usually don't care, but I can't read anything written by socialists or communists when it's clear they will try to force-feed me their silly leftist ideas.

That's why I can't read Mars trilogy or anything by the picture related guy despite the fact I'd enjoy other themes in their books.

Call me whatever you like, but growing up in the post-communist country and still having to deal with them on daily basis after 22 years after the revolution is pretty tiring.

>> No.2135337

>>2135248
try reading the Dispossessed. I hate commies as much as anyone else, but Le Guin really does a pretty honest job of it.

>> No.2135536

Bukowski. Na, doesn't bother me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8KJiay6EI0