The creation of new kanji?

[Anonymous No.21330825]

The maya glyphic writing is extremely similar to the japanese glyphic writing, but many maya glyphs were lost during the spanish conquest, and the identity of many other may prove impossible to decipher.

In order to revive the maya literary tradition, many new glyphs might need to be invented, or redefined--- how do the japanese do it?

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDY/Ar.iI No.21330903]

>>21330825
>[...] but many maya glyphs were lost during the spanish conquest[...]


FALSE; BY THE EARLY SIXTEENTH CENTURY, THE MAYA HAD ALREADY DEGRADED TO THE LOWEST STAGE OF TRIBALISM, AND HAD MOSTLY FORGOTTEN HOW TO READ THEIR OWN GLYPHS; IF THE MAYAN LANGUAGE IS KNOWN TODAY, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE HISPANOCATHOLICAL CONQUEST, NOT DESPITE IT.

[Anonymous No.21330928]

>>21330903
>FALSE; BY THE EARLY SIXTEENTH CENTURY, THE MAYA HAD ALREADY DEGRADED TO THE LOWEST STAGE OF TRIBALISM, AND HAD MOSTLY FORGOTTEN HOW TO READ THEIR OWN GLYPHS; IF THE MAYAN LANGUAGE IS KNOWN TODAY, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE HISPANOCATHOLICAL CONQUEST, NOT DESPITE IT.
Idiot, we only have three fucking books, all post-classic. We have been able to decipher most of the glyphs that we have, but you can't seriously mean to imply that all extant maya glyphs at the time are contained within just these three? There were obviously many others, because priests like de landa openly discussed how they obliterated a large amount of these.

The maya obviously did not forget how to read their own glyphs at the time of the conquest, because de landa documented accurate syllabic readings of the spanish alphabet IN MAYA GLYPHS.

holy shit dude

[Anonymous No.21330934]

>>21330825
I dont think they do invent new kanji. Most new words are either ripped from their native language (normally english) and spelt out phonetically with katakana or they just slap a bunch of pre-existing kanji together to arrive at the desired new word.

[Anonymous No.21331158]

>>21330825
>The maya glyphic writing is extremely similar to the japanese glyphic writing
no

[Anonymous No.21331173]

>>21330825
The glyphs aren't even Japanese to begin with, nitwit. They're Chinese. About creating new ones, look into traditional vs. simplified Chinese writing.

[Anonymous No.21331296]

>>21331158
They are! They both have syllabaries and logograms and use them in pretty much the same way (I think?).

>>21331173
Yeah but I don't know how chinese works. Does chinese have syllabaries? I only have limited experience with japanese from high school.

>>21330934
Are there any kanji for whom the meaning or pronunciation is not known, which have been repurposed?

[Anonymous No.21331449]

>>21330825
New kanji are very rarely made past the "recent" linguistic reforms of the 19th century and I can't think of any off the top of my head. But it is easy enough to assemble them out of radicals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kanji_radicals_by_stroke_count

Even new concepts do not need any new kanji. For instance, the word "radioactivity" is 放射能, assembled from already existing kanji.

[Anonymous No.21331595]

>>21330825
>to revive the maya literary tradition
Why would revive the language of a bunch of losers?
>>21331296
Nigger Kanji is just chink lmao.

[Anonymous No.21331641]

>>21330825
I dont think they do invent new kanji. Most new words are either ripped from their native language (normally english) and spelt out phonetically with katakana or they just slap a bunch of pre-existing kanji together to arrive at the desired new word.

[Anonymous No.21331689]

>>21331595
>Why would revive the language of a bunch of losers?
because it looks fucking awesome

[Anonymous No.21331692]

>>21331689
You should know by now that any language with a complex writing system will be simplified as it becomes widespread.

[Anonymous No.21331790]

>>21331692
What's your point? Maya already has simple and complex versions of the characters. The codical form of characters are no more complicated than written japanese, whereas the variations that get chiseled into stone are more artsy. That's the thing that's so cool about maya, you can write it simply or you can write it in a way that's designed to blow the reader's mind. That's no different than other scripts, but maya is in a league of its own.

Certain irreducible details of the glyphs don't change--- these invariable elements are already simple as can be. The script works fine as is, it's already sophisticated as fuck mechanically.

[Anonymous No.21331798]

>>21331790
They are not simple enough. And even if they were, they'd get further simplified. That writing system is utterly impractical.
If you think that is anywhere near the same ballpark of complexity as CJK when it comes to writing you are sorely mistaken.

[Anonymous No.21331820]

>>21331798
I mean, impractical how? I have experience writing a bit of both and can tell you it takes just as long to write something in one as the other. Journaling in it works just fine at the speed of thought.

shit's not that hard man

>If you think that is anywhere near the same ballpark of complexity as CJK when it comes to writing you are sorely mistaken.
I don't know what this means.

[Anonymous No.21331822]

>>21331820

[Anonymous No.21331827]

>>21331820
CJK = Chinese, Japanese and Korean
Look at those glyphs you wrote. They are far too complex
Check pic related for handwritten Japanese by a real person.
It shouldn't be too hard to realize that these temple-scripts are too impractical for actual use.

[Anonymous No.21331835]

>>21331820
I don't have a side in this argument but I think your calligraphy skills give you an overadjusted view of the average's person writing skills.
Your writing is very good and quite pretty

[Anonymous No.21331838]

>>21331820
This is not ok.

[Anonymous No.21331839]

>>21331827
Look, it's honestly not that hard to write this shit. It doesn't feel cumbersome at all--- it becomes second nature after a while, like any other writing system.

personally I think it'll catch on in the next few decades, but that's just me. the visual appeal alone makes it attractive to learn.

[Anonymous No.21332931]

do they teach Maya on duolingo? thinking of picking it up as a second language

[Anonymous No.21332971]

>>21331820
THIS NIGGA WRITING MAYAN

[Anonymous No.21333863]

>>21330928
Xe won't give heedance to Protestantic fables.

[Anonymous No.21334108]

>>21330903
>FALSE; BY THE EARLY SIXTEENTH CENTURY, THE MAYA HAD ALREADY DEGRADED TO THE LOWEST STAGE OF TRIBALISM
The "fall of the Maya civilization" is a myth, there was a collapsed but there were still city-states, the center of culture simply moved from Guatemala to the Yucatan.
>AND HAD MOSTLY FORGOTTEN HOW TO READ THEIR OWN GLYPHS
Weaseling in the word "mostly" to do the heavy lifting, surely helped when they were forbidden to read and write it and books were destroyed.
>IF THE MAYAN LANGUAGE IS KNOWN TODAY, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE HISPANOCATHOLICAL CONQUEST, NOT DESPITE IT
The Maya language is becoming more well understood because of 20th century studies, which includes things like a Soviet linguist. Spanish colonial writing was filed with demonization and misconstruing, thinking it was an alphabet, and was even being discouraged. Diego de Landa wrote in spite of the church, and only to stamp out the culture after understanding it. He bragged about burning books.
>>21330928
It's just apologia and propaganda he's spouting

[Anonymous No.21334111]

>>21330903
>IF THE MAYAN LANGUAGE IS KNOWN TODAY
Which one? "Mayan" has been a language family, not a single language, for about 4,000 years.

>IT IS BECAUSE OF THE HISPANOCATHOLICAL CONQUEST
Actually it's because of a Russian dude and his cat, alongside Mayans preserving their culture and civilization.

The LARPer brings up a good point though: Mayan is disorganized and the glyphs are complicated. I propose a combination of a Hangul-like script alongside decorative, yet functional logograms. Each phono-glyph has an initial consonant (cluster) slot, a final consonant (cluster), a vowel slot, and "borders" to convey tone, creaky voice, glottalization, etc. Similar to Hangul, the ordering of these can vary, allowing for various shapes (to deal with homophony, or perhaps having specific shapes for inflections, or grammatical particles, or whatever). Like pic related, but with more options for vowel-initial words.

[Anonymous No.21334137]

>>21334111
This is what I mean by the "border". Tone (and stuff like stress or glottalization) can be indicated via the border of the glyph. Here's "cat" written in 4 orders, with four different kinds of border. As I understand it, K'iche' is not tonal, but the other two most spoken Mayan languages (Yucatec and Q'eqchi') are, so idk how this would work if you wanted a Pan-Mayan system or something.

[Anonymous No.21334154]

>>21334111
>Actually it's because of a Russian dude and his cat
I love him.
It wasn't just him but he did help bring more serious attention to it.
>alongside Mayans preserving their culture and civilization
I think one of the breakthroughs was that they started asking local Mayan people "what do you see?" instead of "what do you read?" when showing them glyphs

[Anonymous No.21334233]

>>21330825
>In order to revive the maya literary tradition

[Anonymous No.21334244]

>>21334233
I respect OP's autistic but Sisyphean efforts. It's something I've always wanted to do but it's impossible.
But if OP is still reading, I always suspect that the glyphs would become more abstract and more loose if they were given more centuries to develop further

[Anonymous No.21334264]

>>21331158
>>21331173
They are both logosyllabic writing systems, which is what OP means
And I'm pretty sure some Japanese kanji are different from their Chinese origins

[Anonymous No.21334289]

>>21331839
>I think it'll catch on in the next few decades
Bro, Guatemala's literacy rate is only 80% (only 6% more than India by comparison) and that's for teaching them the conventional Latin alphabet for which there are MILLIONS of resources to learn.

I have my own weird Latin American language fantasy (Mexico rejects Spanish and goes back to using Nahuatl as their primary language) but at least I'm realistic about it and realize it's never going to happen

[Anonymous No.21334393]

>>21331820
Is there like an iso font for this? Pretty impressive anon. Are these glyphs just representing sounds? What are you writing? English or Mayan?

[Anonymous No.21334469]

>>21334289
There's about 6 million speakers of Mayan languages, spread between the Yucatan provinces of Mexico, Guatemala, and Belize. About a third of Guatemala speaks a Mayan language, a tenth of Belize, a third of Yucatan (state), 7% of Campeche, and I can't find stats for Quintana Roo and a few other Mexican states in the area. For comparison, Tabasco only has 3% of the state speaking a language other than Spanish; the average Mexican state has 6% of the population speaking an Indio language fluently, but in various parts of Mexico they might as well speak a Creole. The jump between Indio languages and Spanish are lessened by the great impact that Spanish has had upon them. They also seem to be the only Pre-Columbian people in North America (yes yes I know Mexico is actually part of South America, I mean the actual continental plate) to have any serious desire to continue existing in a decade. Compare the Haida and the Navajo who have decided to just let themselves go extinct.

The eventual collapse of the US Federal Government will lead to the collapse of the Canadian, Mexican, and Brazilian governments. From there, Spanish becomes the dominant trade language of the Americas, with the various smaller states taking up other languages or dialects, which means that Mayan will either experience a resurgence under a new state, or it will get so heavily creolized into Yucatan Spanish that it's basically unintelligible from "normal" Spanish.

>>21334233
The Mayan languages are still spoken, anon. The Mayan civilization is still around, they just exist within the state of Mexico.

[Anonymous No.21334575]

>>21334469
>There's about 6 million speakers of Mayan languages
Which have all been using the Latin script for 500 years. Priestly languages are neat and all but there's a reason why a greater range of literacy emerges with simplified scripts. Same thing happened in Egypt when scribes started using Hieratic script instead of outright hieroglyphs. Hieratic script usage eventually transitioned to the Coptic alphabet, where far more than just the priest-scribe class had access to language.

>Navajo who have decided to just let themselves go extinct
Second largest tribal enrollment in the United States

>The eventual collapse of the US Federal Government will lead to the collapse of the Canadian, Mexican, and Brazilian governments
Oh okay you're an irredeemable schizo. 2 more weeks though, trust the plan!

[Anonymous No.21334597]

>>21334575
>script
Did you not read the thread?

>navajo
There's less than half a million of them, only 150,000 speakers, and the two most recent generations basically don't speak it. There is a significant gap between Navajo and Nahuatl, let alone Navajo and Maya, Quechua, Guarani, etc. Namely, the Maya (and Nahuatl, for that matter, let alone the fucking Quechua and Guarani) are actually raising their young to speak the language, and the Navajo aren't.

I'm not even sure why you're getting butthurt about this. Do you just have some bizarre nerd grudge against the Maya? Is that your dweeb-gimmick?

[Anonymous No.21334665]

>>21331296
>Does chinese have syllabaries?
Chinese is completely logographic
>>21331296
>Are there any kanji for whom the meaning or pronunciation is not known
I don't know about repurposed, but one of the most ridiculously complex kanji has no known meaning anymore

[Anonymous No.21334698]

>>21334597
>Did you not read the thread?
No, not really. It's not worth my time.

>There's less than half a million of them
Bullshit. There tons of Navajo cultural institutions and the vast majority of the Navajo live on the humongous Navajo reservation.

>Do you just have some bizarre nerd grudge against the Maya?
No, not at all. Mayans are fine. I have a nerd grudge against people like you who make outrageous claims that would be laughed off of an althis forum.

[Anonymous No.21334744]

>>21331790
>>21331820
This is amazing. Never let any faggot here say you're not based.
Where did you learn all this? Anything you'd recommend?
Have you ever read Breaking the Mayan Code? It's still lying next to me waiting to be read.

[Anonymous No.21334896]

>>21334698
>There tons of Navajo cultural institutions
Who cares? Clearly not the Navajo, given that they don't even bother to teach their children the language.

[Anonymous No.21334959]

You might want to look into Chu Nom, the Vietnamese version of Kanji. They created a larger number of characters than Japan did.
They did this by combing characters. They would take one "meaning" character and one "pronunciation" character and simply smash them together into a new character.
This is also how many Chinese characters were created in the first place.

[Anonymous No.21335807]

>>21330825
I dont think they do invent new kanji. Most new words are either ripped from their native language (normally english) and spelt out phonetically with katakana or they just slap a bunch of pre-existing kanji together to arrive at the desired new word.

[Anonymous No.21336080]

>>21330825
>The creation of new kanji?
Why would they create a new kanji? Doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous No.21336184]

Kanji are used to spell Chinese loan words. New words are exclusively English, so these are spelled using Katakana.

[Anonymous No.21336191]

>>21336184
>New words are exclusively English
Why is this? Why the heck does japanese need to import all its new words?

[Anonymous No.21336284]

>>21336080
They wouldn’t.

[Anonymous No.21336414]

>>21336184
Wrong. Hanzi are used to spell Japanese words. Japanese basically had no writing system before contact with Chinese writing so they adopted their characters. Over the centuries they have drifted apart significantly.

[Anonymous No.21336446]

>>21330825
I can't find it, but I saw an article where people in quarantine created new kanji as sort of a fun gag, they did it by replacing radicals with others, or stacking kanji. It works the same way any other language works, really, by crushing two existing words together.

[Anonymous No.21337284]

>>21334469
>The Mayan languages are still spoken, anon. The Mayan civilization is still around, they just exist within the state of Mexico.
There was a Mayan ethnostate up until the 1910's-30's too

[Anonymous No.21338630]

One last shameless bump, this topic still interest me OP

[Anonymous No.21339798]

>>21337284
What was this called?

[Anonymous No.21339838]

>>21330825
There's a propaganda technique where you just flat out lie, with a plain contradiction left visible. The unreasonable human notices the contradiction, but the NPC, Asch's Third, and/or the reasonable man who goes along to get along, just nods his head as though he understands.

[Anonymous No.21339841]

>>21336184
Pan isn't English. There are non-English loan words.

[Anonymous No.21340498]

>>21339798
Chan Santa Cruz

[Anonymous No.21340523]

>>21334744
>That painting
I too like to imagine that Mayan books were basically wooden boxes wrapped in jaguar skin. It looks cool.

[Anonymous No.21341130]

>>21339838
what the fuck are you saying schizo