/wg/ Writing General

[Anonymous No.21330744]

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM [Embed]
https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s [Embed]
https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk [Embed]

Thread Theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HON4AswPVk

[Anonymous No.21330751]

Previous
>>21320562

[Anonymous No.21330791]

thoughts on this?

[Anonymous No.21330851]

"It's in his ability to perceive principle and separate it from self-interest that man is distinguished from the animal." -Dwight V. Swain, "Techniques Of The Selling Writer"

[Anonymous No.21330951]

>>21330791
Grammatically solid, stylistically it feels a bit like a weaker Hunter S Thompson. I suspect you meant for this train of thought to be taken entirely at face value, but it reads more like the internal narrative of a comically pretentious midwit. Leaps and bounds ahead of most of what you see in these threads, but not quite original enough in thought or execution to really compete with mainstream stuff. The annoying hypocrisy of dealing with someone who uses intellectualism to satisfy a primal urge to dominate others has been described by better authors.

Well-executed but not brilliant, and a disembodied philosophical diatribe needs to be brilliant in order to be captivating. You might be aiming a bit too high IMO.

[Anonymous No.21331044]

>>21330791
Keep the first paragraph delete the rest.

[Anonymous No.21331118]

I HAVEN'T WRITTEN A SINGLE WORD TODAY!!!

[Anonymous No.21331139]

>>21331044
interesting

>>21330951
I wrote this for a nano-lit thread last year, that's what the context is. very interesting feedback tho. thank you for that.

here's the thread: >>/lit/thread/S17677885#p17677927

[Anonymous No.21331146]

>>21331139
lol my bad I didn't even link the right thread

>>/lit/thread/S16356481#p16360642

[Anonymous No.21331185]

The Dark Lord, Nilithis rested his head onto the palm of his hand. He was thinking. His army has conquered the wetlands and subjectaed the population under his will, yet, ruling over his new subjects proved to be a far more difficult task. He could not threaten the farmers with a sword, for he needed food for his army. He could not enslave them to work, for they would then not produce enough food for the kingdom. He needed to win their loyalty but newly won members of his kingdom would only pledge in words, but never in action. Luckily, Nilithis knew of a higher power that stirred men's souls. The shimmering glint of gold was all that was needed for simple minded folks to forgo their previous Lord's commands and follow his; yet, a problem arose, he had no gold. The majority of it went to pay his soldiers and purchase new weapons for more conquests. There hasn't been a large enough Kingdom that held riches for him to take either. One option remained --- to obtain a loan from Noem Waterstein, the merchant of prosperity.

"My Lord, of Great Darkness and Wraith, if I may," said Noem, "with my wealth and your might, we can easily gain the powers of all those that live in this world."
"Noem, I agree to the fullest extent, but war takes money, and I hear you have plenty."
"That is but a falsehood. I am nothing but a coordinator of riches. For a substantial fee, I protect the gold from the people."
"A bodyguard?"
"Yes, so I cannot simply just give you the money, unless...."
"Unless what?"
"Well my Lord, if you are to keep silence, I can lend you the money from the people, for they often do not seek out their gold, but accumulate it. However, I cannot do it for free. It would be much too risky. The people would grow suspicious of my dealings with you, and demand their money back."
"I see, I see," the Dark Lord nodded, "I shall borrow money from your coffers, and every month provide you a means of payment to cast an illusion that the money is still available correct?"
"That is correct, thus, by lending you out two-thousand pieces of gold, you shall return a paltry sum of three hundred a month for twelve months. Nobody would be the wiser."
"What a wonderful idea and deal Noem. Your long nose truly showcases your cunning and wit."
"Of course my Lord, I am nothing but a humble subject for the Empire."
Nilithis gleefully grabbed his bag of gold from Noem. In his victory he did not notice the sly smile from the banker disappearing behind the doors of the throne room.

[Anonymous No.21331202]

>>21330951
>Grammatically solid
nice
>stylistically it feels a bit like a weaker Hunter S Thompson
noted
>I suspect you meant for this train of thought to be taken entirely at face value
It was created within the context of "The Newgods", whatever that meant. I just felt that it was good enough writing to be preserved beyond that one thread.
>reads more like the internal narrative of a comically pretentious midwit
fair
>Leaps and bounds ahead of most of what you see in these threads
:DDD
>but not quite original enough
fair
>The annoying hypocrisy
also very fair but not my intention. my intention was very much non-hypocrisy and pro primal urge
>You might be aiming a bit too high
very fair judgment that I do not fault you for. I know full well that this is unrefined, and in many places shallow. I appreciate your extensive feedback, it has given me a lot to think about. Thank you again unironically

[Anonymous No.21331444]

I'm rereading lotr and it's so fucking weird how Tolkien writes SOOO MUCH description of places and tales and family names and things that don't really advance the plot for pages and pages... and yet the books aren't even that long.
How does everything fits in just three books, especially in a rich world like that?
My world is much simpler, I'm always succinct and objective, and yet my chapters somehow end up gigantic (15k + words).

[Anonymous No.21331454]

What do you think about the beginning of my fantasy novel? Does it grab your attention enough?
>The sun was setting on a warm summer evening in the Empire of Teleria. The bustling streets were filled with merchants and traders, all eager to make their fortunes as they sold their wares in the ever-growing city. But amidst this hustle and bustle, one man stood out from the rest.
>His name was Darian Winters, a businessman and mage of some considerable power. He had come to Teleria from a far-off land many years ago, seeking wealth and opportunity that his homeland could not provide. And he had found it here – through hard work and dedication he had built an empire of his own within the city walls.
>But now things were changing; Teleria was at war with its neighboring nations, sending troops into battle against those who would oppose them or take what wasn't theirs by right. This conflict posed both danger and opportunity for Darian – if he played his cards right it could mean great profit for him... but it also meant putting himself in harm's way if need be to ensure victory for his beloved empire.

[Anonymous No.21331470]

>>21330744
I have come to share my day in poetic prose:

Today i had to take a bog.
It ended up turning out like a log.
Thus writing was no longer a slog.
Then i went to play with my dog.
But sadly she can no longer jog.
So instead she sat like a frog.
And then she ate like a hog.
She helps me not miss the grog.
Thank fuck I no longer live the life of a cog.

[Anonymous No.21331485]

>>21331185
>The Dark Lord, Nilithis
nope! no thank you!

[Anonymous No.21331486]

>>21330791
deranged babel.

[Anonymous No.21331506]

>>21331454
No. It's dull. Don't start with background information. Start with a person doing something.

[Anonymous No.21331543]

This is an excerpt from something I wrote 2 years ago. I think it's shit, so I would love to read anything that you think I could improve in general.
For context, it's a poor attempt at a contemporary Gregor Samsa, only twist is that he's the only one who sees himself as a cockroach. Everyone else perceives him as what he actually is, a parasite feeding off his family.

[Anonymous No.21331572]

Inspired by Mason & Dixon, I've decided to write a story of a group of wacky characters in the wilderness as they try to chart an unknown region and receive impossible demands from their superiors who set no foot anywhere near the wild.
I'm going to write it in an epistolary format, consisting of letters and journal entries.
One of the characters is called G. Metroidea

[Anonymous No.21331637]

>>21331444
The actual plot, when it happens, is really rushed. Tolkien didn't enjoy writing battle scenes as much as he enjoyed food and poetry. Like, check how many pages the battle of the Helm's deep is and compare it to how many pages Merry and Pippin play around in Treebeard's place.

[Anonymous No.21332064]

>>21331543
By headless did you mean heedless?

[Anonymous No.21332154]

>>21331454
You seem young and most probably shouldn’t be here. Your story comes of as a bit childish, and i guess would be decent for 9-12 year olds. No offense, my honest opinion. Keep going though, don’t let the failures on here deter you. It’s decent unless you’re 20+, in which case i recommend reading books for adults and trying to emulate styles.

[Anonymous No.21332161]

>>21331454
>>21332154
Everything this guy said except emulate styles because who wants to be a rip off? Also, this tells me way too much to soon. You're not immersing me. You're boring me.

[Anonymous No.21332176]

>>21331543
Pretty nice, anon. Humorous stuff. Is the MC a spergy autist?
> tripping and slamming into everything in his path, which was the entire dining room and living room.
Change that sentence to " tripping and slamming into everything in his path, which was everything in the dining room and living room." because it sounds like he slammed his abnormally, inhumanly wide-framed body into the entire rooms at once.

[Anonymous No.21332184]

I had a dream, an honest to god dream, where a publisher called me to let me know they'd accepted my book and then I was driving over a bridge after that all happy and woke up feeling like everything was going to be okay.

[Anonymous No.21332252]

>>21331485
What's wrong with the cheesy name?

[Anonymous No.21332302]

I’m considering writing a novel for children.

How do I make something engaging for kids without sacrificing prose quality?

[Anonymous No.21332365]

>>21332302
Imagine yourself reading the story to your kid who is already half-asleep

[Anonymous No.21332381]

would it be very confusing for a reader if couple lines of dialogue in a row are said by the same character? I want to give an impression of long pauses between sentences, but without unnecessary "he paused for a moment" "there was no reply" "his companion responded only with a bemused stare" etc. kind of bloat

[Anonymous No.21332403]

Read Truby. Expand your knowledge of genre.

[Anonymous No.21332442]

Been messing around with the Plotto book. It's pretty neat, like a procedural plot generator.

e.g
Masterplot:
A5 A benevolent person
B9 Being put to a test in which love will be lost if more material fortunes are advanced,
(2) Emerges happily from a serious entanglement.

Conflict:
118 A will be disinherited by his wealthy grandfather, GF-A, if he does not perform an act which will prove a grievous injury to F-B 276 ch F-A to GF-A, father of B, the woman A loves
276 A and B fall in love; but their fathers, F-A and F-B, are bitter political enemies
116 A loses wealth by marrying B against the wishes of a rich relative, who disinherits him
366 A refuses an inheritance because of a restriction that he must not marry; then he [proposes to] B
370 A loves B devotedly, but he is so constituted that he never shows his true feelings and often masks them with something that suggests their exact opposite * B mourns over the mistaken belief that she has lost A’s love **
367b B doubts A when he tells her he loves her; then, having convinced herself of A’s love 116, B accepts A and they are married.

[Anonymous No.21332460]

>>21332403
I read his other book and wasn't impressed. He also praises some weird movies (like he said the new Mad Max was the second best action film in history (just behind Seven Samurai lol)). There are some novel ideas, like the character square thing where you put the central characters on opposite corners of a square, but it's just convoluted and something I doubt real screenwriters actually use.

I also never understood this obsession with genre. Genre is just a marketing tool, what the writer needs to concern himself with are the expectations surrounding certain plot elements. Sanderson (of all people) explains this pretty well in his lectures as "promises and payoffs". Judging by the cover of that book it doesn't seem like Truby has identified the correct genres for the writer to use. Save The Cat has a better taxonomy. And there are others which are even more granular and therefore more useful for brainstorming.

[Anonymous No.21332502]

>>21332381
in traditional novel formatting you can have paragraph breaks inside speech. each new line would then start with a quotation mark but only the last one would have one at the end, like so:
>"blah blah blah.
>"blah blah blah blah.
>"blah blah."
you'd typically use this to break up a long monologue.

[Anonymous No.21332512]

>>21332502
I know, I considered that, but these aren't long paragraphs, it doesn't look right when it's just singular sentences.

[Anonymous No.21332546]

>>21331637
Yeah, I came to that conclusion after thinking about it for some time.
This is an unthinkable thing to do today, right? Writing pages and pages of lore/no plot and hoping your readers will keep reading through it?

[Anonymous No.21332580]

4.3k today

[Anonymous No.21332652]

I WANT TO WRITE BUT MY BRAIN WON'T THINK OF ANYTHING AAAAHHHH
I've even been clicking through wikipedia random articles to see if I can read something that will spark an idea. I'm usually good at running with a concept once that ember of inspiration hits, and then the writing just won't stop. But I have nothing.
I've made character sheet outlines to see if maybe I'll get inspired when I start writing things. I get like one section filled and then there's nothing.
Idk I'm going to sleep, maybe I'll think of something cool as I fall asleep

[Anonymous No.21332682]

>>21332652
Write the first 3-5 chapters. Then worry about what happens after. That shit's a lot easier once the foundation has been laid down.

[Anonymous No.21332737]

>>21332580
Don't you people have jobs?

[Anonymous No.21332753]

>>21332652
See: >>21332442.

[Anonymous No.21332767]

>>21332737
>he doesn't write at work
Good goy, remember to be productive so Mr. Shekelsberg can buy that new yacht...

[Anonymous No.21332774]

>>21332737
no

[Anonymous No.21332782]

>>21332767
But I'm a public servant.

[Anonymous No.21332796]

>>21332782
That's even better, then nobody expects you to be productive at all. I usually manage 500-1000 words at work, depending on how busy my day is. When I get home I can add to that at my leisure.

[Anonymous No.21332806]

>>21332782
Say didn't Trump just happen to have all Jewish grandkids too?

[Anonymous No.21332860]

>>21331118
You just did (:

[Anonymous No.21332868]

>>21332546
>Today
It was unthinkable then. Tolkien got roasted by his friends.

[Anonymous No.21332880]

>>21331454
That's a beginning? It looks like the synopsis you read on the back cover. Where's the NYT review?

[Anonymous No.21332944]

>>21332806
That's a good thing, goy. We're protecting democracy in the middle east. slava ukrani

[Anonymous No.21333004]

>>21331454
Keep this part, but add dialogue at the end:
>The sun was setting on a warm summer evening in the Empire of Teleria. The bustling streets were filled with merchants and traders, all eager to make their fortunes as they sold their wares in the ever-growing city. But amidst this hustle and bustle, one man stood out from the rest.
>His name was Darian Winters, a businessman and mage.
>[dialogue here]
The scene should be interesting and engaging to serve as a hook. Either the reader will want to keep reading to see how it ends because there's danger, or it'll throw them for a loop because of something unusual and they'll need to figure out what's going on. Beyond that it should have conflict and its purpose should be threefold: 1. to plant the theme and setting, 2. to immediately demonstrate the protagonist's character, and 2. to drop a few little tidbits of information that are relevant to the plot and setting. Don't give all that exposition at once. Character first, then start introducing side characters and setting up the background information for an eventual break into act 2, which is where the story actually begins. Drop all that exposition over several chapters and have it accompanied by interesting characterization and drama every time.

[Anonymous No.21333013]

>>21333004 (Me)
For the scene, I recommend having Darian trying to purchase something from one of the merchants. Maybe some kind of black market magic item that is clearly dangerous or high-profile. Inject some sociopolitical tension or nationalism into the dialogue.

[Anonymous No.21333051]

>>21330744
My opening chapter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8akuqfqq7ug11m5/Opening%20Chapter.odt?dl=0

[Anonymous No.21333066]

>>21333051
Did you try reading it out loud? The opening paragraph is a bit too periodic in sentence length, long-short-long-short-long-short.

[Anonymous No.21333095]

>>21333066
I'll try adding more background and detail to the Corsa while breaking up the paragraph.

[Anonymous No.21333248]

>>21332381
Yes it would be incomprehensible if you did that. The proper way is to use .... if you can’t simply say he paused.

[Anonymous No.21333252]

>Mishima spent two months deciding on what to write.
Result: Confessions of a Mask.

[Anonymous No.21333253]

>>21333051
You're way too stuck inside the guy's. It's all about his thoughts, memories, and impressions of the world around him without bothering to actually tell the reader about the world. There are no concrete sensory details. It's summer in London. That's it. We don't know if it's hot out. He looks outside and there are faces. We can infer he's stuck in traffic, but there's no mention of the other cars or road or sights or much of anything. Just a guy musing about things that happened in the past.

It makes the whole thing really drab.

[Anonymous No.21333270]

Two stupid questions:
Does this sentence make sense?
>His face was weathered in the way that only hardship and suffering could cause.

In this sentence
>His milky white eyes stared passed Baldwyn.
would I keep "passed" or use "past"? I'm 99% sure it's "passed" but those two always give me trouble, no matter how much I use either of them.

[Anonymous No.21333297]

>>21333270
>I'm 99% sure it's "passed"
You'd be wrong.
>His face was weathered in the way that only hardship and suffering could cause.
His face was weathered by suffering.

[Anonymous No.21333372]

>>21333248
but that makes it sound like hesitation or drifting off
this scene is that he talks some schizo shit fishing for a response, doesn't get any, so he says another things until he gets a reaction

[Anonymous No.21333419]

I haven't written seriously in a long while.
Should I force myself to write something I enjoy without second guessing myself?

[Anonymous No.21333457]

How stupid of an idea is it to have a character coat a blade in poison that they've vomited up after being poisoned?

[Anonymous No.21333622]

Playing around with NovelAI:
>Chance is God's only representative on Earth.

[Anonymous No.21333636]

>>21333622
>He laughed. There was no humor in his laughter; it sounded like something very large dying.

[Anonymous No.21333702]

>>21330791
This is really good

[Anonymous No.21333707]

Is this grammatically correct?
>His hair was neatly kept, and his physique was that of a politician: round and weak.

I'm not sure if I should keep that colon or use a semi-colon instead.

[Anonymous No.21333716]

>>21333252
nobody cares about this boring transgender bullshit author

[Anonymous No.21333722]

>>21333457
Very unless it's a litrpg, then it would be standard.

[Anonymous No.21333731]

>>21333707
>His hair was neatly kept,
Like in his pocket or something?

[Anonymous No.21333734]

>>21333457
> have a character coat a blade in poison that they've vomited up after being poisoned?
Literally describes transgender. Lol. It's actually a high quality image, I may make a meme out of it.

[Anonymous No.21333745]

>>21333722
It's sword and sorcery, and I scrapped the idea almost immediately after making that post. It really is kinda stupid, isn't it?

>>21333734
...how is it transgender?

[Anonymous No.21333751]

>>21333731
based ESL poster

[Anonymous No.21333774]

>>21333745
> It really is kinda stupid, isn't it?
Yes. Even fantasy needs some kind of internal logic.

[Anonymous No.21333810]

>>21333457
Unless the poison was in a vial which he swallowed whole and then vomited, it doesn't make much sense.

[Anonymous No.21333862]

>>21333734
Are these transgenders in the room right now?

[Anonymous No.21333883]

>>21333862
yes, (you)

[Anonymous No.21333889]

>>21333883
You have to be 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.21333919]

>>21333372
You could just use one word: Pause.

That’s not bloaty at all. Almost the same as ...

And if you think it’s too brief, a Nobel prize winner used exactly that so there’s no problem there from grammatical or other point of view.

[Anonymous No.21333977]

>>21333297
>His face was weathered by suffering.
No, that's shit. The original sentence is better. NTA

[Anonymous No.21334043]

>>21332381
Ignore the other response. Yes, you can break a speaker's dialogue into multiple paragraphs you're careful about it. Don't overuse it or it will become confusing, but it can create an interesting effect if used sparingly, especially if you put the dialogue tag very early after the paragraph break so the reader doesn't have to backtrack.
Pic related from one of my manuscripts. Notice how the same character continues speaking after a paragraph break, and a long pause is implied.
Again, you really shouldn't do this often, but it works. This is largely the exception to the rule. This is the only time I use it.

[Anonymous No.21334118]

>>21334043
> "To bring you back."
> The words catch in my throat. I had been thinking it the whole time, but didn't say it.
What is this? Schrodinger's dialogue?

[Anonymous No.21334127]

>>21334043
>dialogue tags
that's the bloat that I'm talking about. I want it to be simple like:
"To bring you back."
"To hear you laugh one more time. Or to blah blah blah "
"Or to blah."

[Anonymous No.21334159]

>>21332064
English ain't my native tongue, so I had to translate it at the best of my habilities. It originally was "Sin pies ni cabeza", which it's a way of implying aformity of something. His days had no real structure and it could start by 9 PM and end 8 AM of the next day.

>>21332176
I always thought of Gregor Samsa as a human who looked like a cockroach, he was kind and thoughtful. I was trying to give it a spin and make the MC a proper cunt. A human by appearance, but a cockroach in action. The kitchen bit was meant as an actual encounter with a real cockroach; The moment someone comes to the room, it tries to run away as fast as possible, even if it comes down to running through said person. Yeah, MC is a massive sperg. Any criticism on the text or prose itself? I know it's a little dumb to ask taking into consideration that prose changes with language, but some proper or vague criticism on it could actually help me a lot.

[Anonymous No.21334162]

>>21334127
Well, no. Because by convention, the reader assumes that dialogue on a new line is another speaker. You *need* to have a dialogue tag if you break that convention, and it needs to be very early in the line, otherwise the reader will go through the whole line thinking it's another speaker and be confused, which makes prose unreadable.

[Anonymous No.21334168]

>>21334159
That and is the idea itself worth even working on? Maybe I'm the only one who think it's somewhat interesting, mainly because The Metamorphosis is such a timeless classic which doesn't really need any kind of adaptation.

[Anonymous No.21334194]

>>21334159
> realized the obvious
I'd switch obvious for another word or couple of words because obvious doesn't really apply if the curtains altered the clock's appearance that much that it could be an easy mistake to make.
> mom had a very difficult day today
Replace mom with mommy or I. Her just saying so casually makes her sound like she's his actually his aunt or sister or some other female relative that's not his mother.

[Anonymous No.21334298]

>>21334043
Don't do that. Do something like this.

>"To-" The words catch in my throat. I'd been thinking it in the back of my mind, but now that the time had arrived it seemed all too real . "To bring you back, to hear you laugh again, to walk with you down the pier one last time."
>We've already done that hundreds of times. You've lived out your desires in this world and now I want you to move on to the real one. I promise I'll never forget you."

[Anonymous No.21334327]

>>21334162
there are some situations where it will be obvious that it's just one character speaking, when the speech is rigidly structured, for example with counting or quoting the bible or reading from a list. I already have a scene where a character is counting out loud, each number a separate line, there are dialogue tags on "one" and "two", later I think it's rather obvious that it's still only this one guy counting

[Anonymous No.21334685]

Any guides for words that should not be used too much?

[Anonymous No.21334691]

>>21330744
How do I break the habit of writing nothing for days and days, writing about ~800 words doing zero planning, and repeating the cycle? Is this just a bad habit I can break?

[Anonymous No.21334701]

Is there a word for when a child stops crying but their chest still continues to heave like they're out of breath?

[Anonymous No.21334708]

>>21334701
Gasping.

[Anonymous No.21334778]

how the fuck do you write a plot that makes sense around the scenes you conceived and make it look simple and logical
inb4 get rid of the scene: no, the scene contains my fetish and is the only reason I'm writing this thing at all

[Anonymous No.21334809]

>>21332403
>lists both detective and crime as separate genres
>doesn't include my genre at all
so i'm to believe he doesn't know shit about it, then? "action" isn't even a genre.

[Anonymous No.21334903]

>>21334809
> Detective
> Investigating the crime.
> Crime
> Doing the crime

[Anonymous No.21334937]

>>21334903
>two sides of the same coin are two different items
t. shortbus rider

[Anonymous No.21334947]

>>21333457
dude wtf

[Anonymous No.21335077]

>>21334778
You are doing it backwards. The idea is normally that you begin with something to build a story around, a basic dramatic question or theme, and then you plot out the scenes to explore and demonstrate that theme to the audience. Often you do the same thing with multiple characters. There's a kind of "less is more" policy skilled writers follow, where every scene serves a specific purpose for illustrating that greater picture, and nothing is overdone.

[Anonymous No.21335095]

>>21334809
>>21334903
>>21334937
You seem to be under the impression that a genre is just the series of events that happen, but it's not. Genres have conventions and tropes. Crime, true crime, etc. has different tropes than police procedural, mystery, etc. Action isn't really a genre though you're right.

[Anonymous No.21335121]

>>21335077
the theme of the story is "collection of my fetishes", the dramatic question "can I fit them all into one novella" and I'm exploring and demonstrating that alright

[Anonymous No.21335125]

>>21332381
Light novels do this all the time and I have no problem with it because JP authors actually know how to differentiate speech patterns unlike westoids

[Anonymous No.21335134]

>>21335095
the conventions and tropes are why "genres" are the mindkiller, this line of thinking needs to be abolished for literature to flourish.

[Anonymous No.21335207]

>>21335095
>Action isn't really a genre
It is for comic books.

[Anonymous No.21335236]

thoughts on my rough draft process? my method is a kind of focused free-writing:
>outline the macro plot
>outline all the major turning points
>turn those into a list of about 120+ "beats"
>use a beat as a prompt to quickly brainstorm the chunk of writing the outline calls for
>shut my brain off and simply type as fast as possible without stopping to correct anything at all
i type like this until i feel like writing has moved to where i need it. this will include writing shit like "no ideas here no ideas here no ideas here" over and over until i actually do have ideas and the writing can move forward again. the chunk is usually around 1-2k words after i go back and give it a quick edit to remove brainfarts like "no ideas here" and basic spelling correction while leaving everything else untouched.
using this method i expect to produce a *very* rough draft of around 120-140k words that i will set on fire and edit down to 50-80k for my actual first draft.
i developed this process after struggling to overcome crippling self-criticism for many years.

[Anonymous No.21335392]

>>21335134
Okay retard. The genre for you is called "literary fiction", there's a section for it in the bookstore just like there is for every other genre. Genres are marketing labels, and specific market audiences have expectations, some can be broken and some cannot. If I pick up a mystery novel there are certain elements I'm expecting to be in it. And yes, literary fiction is a genre, it's the genre for people who masturbate to the idea of reading something that feels like it breaks conventions even though it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.21335399]

>>21335236
Good job anon. I have no input, your post was just you ejaculating about your own process that helped you get over your writer's block, but I'm happy for you.

[Anonymous No.21335404]

Can I get some thoughts from anons

https://www.scribblehub.com/series/295886/mechazoid/

[Anonymous No.21335434]

>>21335399
lol yeah it was. pretty happy to finally be getting somewhere and wanted to share.

[Anonymous No.21335498]

Where is the best place to publish your stuff and generally get more eyes on your work?
I like writing, but sometimes I feel it is sort of vain if I spend so much time doing it, but it is not even seen by others.

[Anonymous No.21335526]

>>21335498
The place with the most readers seems to be RR which you can then use to market other work, but getting readers there require writing formulaic isekai litrpg. Serial fiction and web fiction is becoming more popular. (chapter per week etc.) Just need to be creative with self-promotion.

[Anonymous No.21335538]

>>21335498
Also, not many people here know about this, I don't think I've seen it mentioned in /wg/ before, but >>>/qst/ is a very devoted community. It's one of the slowest boards on 4chan but there's no shortage of readers there. The idea is that OP runs an interactive story called a quest (often fanfic, but many original works as well) and readers vote for what the protagonist does between updates. The most popular quests there are artfag quests AKA drawquests but full prose quests do exist.

[Anonymous No.21335544]

>>21335526
Sorry what is RR?

[Anonymous No.21335546]

>>21335544
RoyalRoad.

[Anonymous No.21335823]

>>21335404
Strong beginning, underwhelming end.

[Anonymous No.21335905]

>It's an author uses a smurf account to review their own work to try and convince prospective readers that a slow burn with a prisoner arc is a good thing episode.
ISHYGDDT

[Anonymous No.21336139]

>>21335905
You can speak normally on this general anon, the demons aren't here. You can drop the ironic pointless exterior and just say what you want directly. I understand if that's a hard step, but everyone has to do it.

[Anonymous No.21336156]

>>21334127
>>21334327
I've read some old books where dialogue is broken up like this, not with normal breaks, but to new lines between full quotes, while it's still the same speaker, and though it's technically possible to follow, it's also extremely annoying, and I see 0 reason why you should do it.

[Anonymous No.21336333]

>>21334127
If a speaker talks for paragraphs, you don't close the quotes.

"Blah blah blah.
"Blah blah."

https://style.mla.org/speech-paragraphs-quotation-marks/

[Anonymous No.21336345]

>Okay retard. The genre for you is called "literary fiction", there's a section for it in the bookstore just like there is for every other genre.

[Anonymous No.21336394]

>>21333253
>You're way too stuck inside the guy's.
lmao gay

[Anonymous No.21336397]

>>21333457
Did he ingest this poison? Stomach acid probably neutralized some of its effectiveness or it was already absorbed into his body.

[Anonymous No.21336484]

any tips on writing endurance? i can get a lot done in about an hour but after that i am absolutely fucked for the rest of the day. can't imagine how pros do it for 4+ hours straight everyday.

[Anonymous No.21336530]

>>21336484
Don't worry about it. Write for as long as you've the mental energy. Even if it's "only" an hour, that's an hour's more work into whatever you're working on than you would have otherwise had. More importantly, that's an hour of development into your hopefully lifelong development as a writer. Don't sweat the small stuff. All you can do is show up and be present.

[Anonymous No.21336968]

ESLtrash here and I'm having trouble hearing if these two lines scan as a (iambic) pentameter + tetrameter, stresses in brackets:
>When [I] see [you] I [think] of [Xan]a[du]
>Far a[way] as the [day] you [say] I [do]
So yeah any basic tips for writing poetry in English? To me it seems natural somehow to stress the first I and not the others, but should it always be stressed? Other than that I should probably find a replacement for 'far away' as 'far' is stressed innit.

[Anonymous No.21336998]

>>21336968
Scansion isn't an exact science — it's not even a science at all. For pretty much any given line of (good) poetry, there's no guarantee that two experienced and tasteful readers may scan it the same way. I know that this probably isn't a great thing to hear since I would imagine that you're trying to reverse engineer an understanding of English poetry from the scansion of others. That said, I would advise against that. I'm monolingual so this may be a hot take, but I've found that the poetic beauty in the English language is basically the same beauty teased out of others. The sounds may be alien and the rhythms and flows may well very, but linguistic beauty is linguistic beauty. My girlfriend is Polish and she sometimes does a recitation here or there for me. Even though I barely understand ten words in the language, there is this intuitive marvel (I think she reads pretty damn well) at the mechanics of the language and the poet's manipulation thereof. This is rambling now, and I've lost track of what point I meant to make. I guess what I would suggest is that you (as, ostensibly, a poet as well in another language) actually take that liberty with the English language and form it to your needs rather than draping yourself across the apparatus... if that makes any sense. Good luck, anon.

[Anonymous No.21337008]

Do you have fiction or nonfiction that you want edited? I am a professional with a sexy suit. Reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight

[Anonymous No.21337039]

>>21337008
That looks like a literal Facebook image you renamed to a series of numbers that are supposed to look like a 4chan filename but obviously isn't. Go shill yourself somewhere else, retard.

[Anonymous No.21337066]

>>21334937
I'm not the one who can't differentiate between two different book genres with different names. Now get on the bus.

[Anonymous No.21337070]

>>21337039
honestly I am an actual editor but i fell in love with a schizophrenic girl and need money to take care of her

[Anonymous No.21337073]

>>21337008
No she won’t

[Anonymous No.21337076]

>>21337008
Can you explain how/when to use a comma with clauses and conjunctions?

[Anonymous No.21337092]

>>21337076
Commas surround parenthetical information, such as nonrestrictive clauses or asides: this generally refers to those using "which" instead of "that." If you are using a conjunction to join two independent clauses, you need to use a comma; however, simply using a conjunction for a grouping or a list does not require a comma. Do you have an example or an excerpt you're editing? It would be easier for me to help

[Anonymous No.21337137]

>>21336998
Scansion not being a science hasn't stopped anyone from being a rigorist in any language ever and it isn't gonna stop me today, which is also my strategy here, that is, I'm gonna be a stickler for form and tradition with as little ambiguity as possible until I've mastered the language/genre enough that I'm comfortable breaking with it. Moreover, while the poetic experience might not be a science, speech patterns exist, however varied, and I hoped some anglofags could offer feedback along the lines of what they perceived as 'natural English'.
And but so to reformulate my question: Could the two lines above conceivably be scanned as a pentameter followed by a tetrameter? Pretty sure I'm finding a replacement for 'far away' at the least. And mind you, I'm not aiming from greatness either, occasional and masturbatory poetry at best.

[Anonymous No.21337200]

>>21335498
Reddit has a plethora of short-fiction-oriented subs.
r/nosleep has thousands of readers, but the rules to post there are overwhelming and nitpicky:
https://reddit.com/r/nosleep/wiki/posting_guidelines
r/shortscarystories is a distant 2nd for number of readers, but they have less rules.

[Anonymous No.21337345]

>>21336484
Drink more tea. Have a piece of fruit

[Anonymous No.21337423]

>>21336139
You are most correct.

Your prose is shit
And your filler is too
You pad out your paragraphs
Making your sentences glue
So when your done with the sniffing
Of your own mental farts
I recommend you
Seek a degree in the arts

[Anonymous No.21337437]

>>21337423
heh

[Anonymous No.21337510]

>>21330744
Once upon a time in a small English town
Lived a young boy named Timmy, who liked to play the clown
He couldn't help but steal his neighbor's undergarments too
But one day he got caught, and had no idea what to do

Mrs. Jones was outraged, and demanded he give back
The frilly pink underpants he'd so sneakily attacked
But Timmy, being clever, put them on with a grin
And strutted around the garden, pretending to be a girl named Timmin

Mrs. Jones was not fooled, and tried to grab him tight
But Timmy was too quick, and danced out of her sight
He ran back to his house, where he hid the stolen loot
But Mrs. Jones was determined, and would not let him scoot

She waited for her chance, and one day she caught him red-handed
Timmy knew he was in trouble, and his face became quite branded
Mrs. Jones demanded he return all of the stolen goods
And Timmy, realizing the error of his ways, did as he should

He apologized profusely, and promised to never steal again
Mrs. Jones forgave him, and the two of them became good friends
But Mrs. Jones had a request, one Timmy couldn't deny
She demanded his seed, as compensation for the stolen goods supply

At first, Timmy was hesitant, but Mrs. Jones was insistent
And so, Timmy reluctantly complied with her insistence
As they grew closer, Timmy and Mrs. Jones realized they had feelings for each other
They began dating, and eventually got married in a beautiful countryside endeavor

Timmy and Mrs. Jones lived happily ever after, with Timmy's stealing a thing of the past
He always treated Mrs. Jones with love and respect, and their bond would forever last.

[Anonymous No.21337634]

>>21337510
Was this written by Data's evil twin brother, Lore?

[Anonymous No.21337650]

>>21335236
Can you expound on those "beats"? What do they look like?

[Anonymous No.21337694]

Can I get some light here?
>>>/trash/52779152

[Anonymous No.21337738]

>>21337694
Come on, some help?

[Anonymous No.21337753]

The Western Man is a slave to consumerist ways,
A heartless brute who ruins his children's days.
He sacrifices them on the altar of his greed,
And fills their minds with shallow, superficial seed.

He is a poor father, neglectful and unkind,
Unable to give his children peace of mind.
He is too busy chasing after wealth and fame,
To notice the harm that he's causing to their name.

He is a destroyer, and he must be stopped,
Before he ruins his children's lives and hopes.
We must rise up against him, and make him see,
That consumerist values are not the way to be.

We must demand that he change his ways,
And put his children's needs above his craze.
We must demand that he become a better man,
And provide his children with a loving hand.

Only then can we create a better world,
Where children are free from consumerism's grip and hold.
Where they can grow and thrive, and reach their full potential,
And live in peace and harmony, with love and respect essential.

[Anonymous No.21337764]

Thinking of writing some historical fiction on early Viking Era Ireland. This is my opening. I've never actually written before so appreciate any criticism.

[Anonymous No.21337766]

>>21337694
>>21337738
Couldn't find any actual writing.
Unless you're talking about troon ERP.
And there's no way I'm reading that.
I'd puke all over my keyboard.

[Anonymous No.21337774]

>>21337753
Rant about capitalism all you want, but it's lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.
Also, >>>/pol/ is that way

[Anonymous No.21337778]

>>21337766
WHY HAVE THEY IGNORED ME FOR A FUCKING YEAR NOW?

[Anonymous No.21337783]

>>21337778
How the hell should I know?
Maybe you're too cringe?
Maybe you're needy and desperate?

[Anonymous No.21337800]

>>21337783
I haven't been on this board and thread for a while now. Don't make me come back, full force.

[Anonymous No.21337811]

>>21337800
What do you hope to gain by coming back?
Are you literally threatening us with your presence?
What do we have to do with any of this?

[Anonymous No.21337843]

>>21337811
I am, yes.
We never solved the issue between us, it's either you /wg/ or /ntr/

[Anonymous No.21337855]

>>21337811
He'll 41% soon. Don't worry.

[Anonymous No.21337864]

Ah, ok.
So you want me to come back then?

[Anonymous No.21337880]

>>21337843
May I introduce you to >>>/qst/?

[Anonymous No.21337885]

>>21337880
FUCK YOU
I DONT HAVE ANY SORT OF TALENT FOR WRITING, AT ALL? I KNOW THIS
HAHAHAHA I DONT I SUCK I FUCKING SUCK
ANSWER ME NOW

[Anonymous No.21337892]

>>21337774
lawl proof that /lit is inhabited by children.

[Anonymous No.21337896]

>>21337843
Well, I don't have any idea who you are, you appear to have nothing to contribute but seething and trolling, and you haven't explained the nature of your animosity toward /wg/ .
But I'm starting to see why /trash/ ignores you...you're not very interesting.
I should also warn you that /wg/ already has a resident seething schizo, and F Gardner isn't likely to take too kindly to your attempt to draw attention away from him.

[Anonymous No.21337906]

>>21337896
I have nothing but reasons to be mad at you.

[Anonymous No.21337907]

>>21337892
An ad hominem attack, instead of actually answering the question?
You're right about /lit/ being inhabited by children, but not in the way you're thinking.

[Anonymous No.21337936]

>>21337906
You are, of course, aware that the readership of /wg/ is fluid, and most of us have no idea who the others are?
Are you mad at the idea of a /wg/ general, or at some imaginary conglomerate made up of an ever-shifting set of anonymous people?
I'm sure you don't mean to sound insane, so perhaps you should reconsider your chain of logic, and the reasons you're here.
Here's a suggestion...if you're mad that people on /trash/ don't respond to you, have you considered samefagging? Just reply to your own posts. No one will know it's you. Our resident seething schizo does that all the time.

[Anonymous No.21337941]

You think you can laugh at me?
>>21337936
Theres no validation then, no, I crave to fit in

[Anonymous No.21337949]

>>21333253
I feel like I should keep it this way because it helps draw attention to the watch and that watch is important. Tat, and it's not like the whole book is like this. The following chapter ended up not being the same way, but it's with a different character.

[Anonymous No.21337954]

>>21337774
>anon criticizes greed, materialism and consumerism
>you ironically equate this to capitalism then defend capitalism with a stock NPC line
Democracy is gay and you are the proof.

[Anonymous No.21337959]

>>21337764
Competently written enough at a technical level which is promising. Your prose/description and what you choose to put on center stage could use work though in my opinion:
>dialogue
Very Maid & Butler/"as you know Bob". Consider making this less like a movie (slower start, show thoughts/summarized knowledge rather than explain in dialogue, perhaps less characters on stage at start)
>Descriptions
Solid first draft of ideas but go through on an edit pass and condense this all down to tigher more concrete/sensory oriented Descriptions.

Have you started reading up on writing craft? If not read articles on Filtering, Specificity ("the sound of lumber being cut"->"the wet smacking sound of hatchets working fresh timber") and using stronger verbs.

I bother to give all this feedback because you seem to have some talent so please take all this rambling as encouragement/trying to give you resources rather than any insult.

[Anonymous No.21337969]

>>21337941
Ugh...are you Disco Elysium Anon, too?
is the the episode where, in addition to seething that your first attempt to make a video game won't be as good as a zillion-dollar collaborative project done by experienced professionals, that we find you're also a wannabe troon ERP?
We have nothing to do with your suffering.
I'm sure you don't mean to make us suffer for no reason, since that would imply you're a bad person.

[Anonymous No.21337985]

>>21337954
It's clear to anyone with a bare minimum of awareness of modern culture that greed, materialism and consumerism are meant as dog whistles for describing capitalism.
And you're the first to mention democracy. Is that somehow equal to capitalism, or is your thinking merely muddled?
And for the last time... >>>/pol/ is that way. This discussion has nothing to do with writing.

[Anonymous No.21337990]

>>21337764
It's hard to follow a conversation between multiple new characters who haven't been introduced yet.

I'd start with the attack and then have them discuss the politics later.

[Anonymous No.21337999]

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57747/simulacrum-heavens-key

[Anonymous No.21338051]

>>21330791
grammatically and stylistically retarded, didn't read

[Anonymous No.21338056]

>>21337985
>dog whistles
This is why no one can talk about anything anymore. Everyone's a paranoid schizophrenic-ideologue afraid of other ideologues.
Gay, I say.

[Anonymous No.21338064]

>>21337764
This is very good for you first time writing. You managed to avoid most noob prose trappings. The sentence structure, standards, and literary devices you are using are adequate and don't come off amateurish, which is a hurdle that most writers never get past, so you have a strong foundation to build on. I wouldn't change much, if anything, about your voice. The only place you need work is the actual storytelling content (characterization, scene writing, drama, conflict) and not its presentation. I agree with the advice the other anons gave you, except unlike that other anon, I think your dialogue is fine.

[Anonymous No.21338081]

>>21338056
Yes, but it's modern culture that's gay.
Also... >>>/pol/ .

[Anonymous No.21338092]

>>21337985
>>21338081
Oh, and I have to add since you keep pointing people to /pol/: You're the one who started the political discussion. The anon shared a piece, that can be interpreted as political, but fundamentally it's philosophical as it attacks fundamental concepts such as greed. You made this a brain-dead
>muh ideology
discussion.
You have no self awareness. Work on that. >>21337774
Maybe you should take your own advice and go to /pol/, since you didn't critique his piece but rather defended an ideology.

[Anonymous No.21338106]

>>21337764
>>21338064 (Me)
Actually, since you have such a strong foundation, I think there are some things you could work on to sharpen your prose even more and make it really stand out. All of them can be demonstrated with this first paragraph:
>Donal looked across the plain to the fortification the Norsemen had constructed. Rough wooden palisades blocked his view inside, but he could see smoke rising from many fires. The sound of lumber being cut was just audible over the sound of crashing waves, from the beach on the far side of the fort. Two men were ploughing the land just outside the walls, while the third seemed to give orders and direct them.
This paragraph could still be improved to modern standards by doing 3 things:
1. Don't filter the sensory experience of the scene through the character. This is POV writing, so it's stronger to present it directly to the reader.
2. Remove unconfident words that make the narrative fuzzier like "seemed". There is an implicit understanding that what the character is seeing is just what it seems like, otherwise it wouldn't be in the narration at all.
3. Seek stronger verbs. e.g. "giving orders" can become "barking orders" or "commanding". You cannot overuse this technique, verbs describe action, and action is the main currency of fiction. The better the verbs, the better the writing.
So the improved version of the paragraph might become:
>Donal looked across the plain to the fortification the Norsemen had constructed. Rough wooden palisades blocked his view inside, but smoke was billowing from many fires. The sound of lumber being cut melded with the sound of crashing waves, from the beach on the far side of the fort. Two men were ploughing the land just outside the walls, while the third was barking orders at them.
Take what you like and adjust accordingly.

[Anonymous No.21338139]

>>21337959
>>21337990
>>21338064


Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to give feedback, and I appreciate how positive it is.

I was aprehensive about background dumping heavily during the opening which is why I attempted to trickle in exposition a little less heavily through dialogue while a more interesting story element is transpiring, but maybe it is a bit unrealisitc. I can see how the multiple names so early on can get confusing.

>Have you read up on writing craft...

No not at all. To be honest I am that new that a lot of the terms given - what differentiates standards from literary devices, or even their accurate defintion (yes I am that naiive), are new to me. I think immersing myself in literature on writing and story telling would be a great help to me.

The proposed change reads so much better and is a great example of how I can do better going forward.

I think I really need to brush up on literary theory and story composition, and of course continue reading more.

[Anonymous No.21338146]

How do you know if you have talent?

[Anonymous No.21338162]

>>21338092
Fair enough.

[Anonymous No.21338173]

>>21337969
I never had talent for writing, that's why you're involved

[Anonymous No.21338194]

>>21338106
Thanks for working through a paragraph like this, it is a great help. I agree with all the changes you've made.

This has been really motivating actually. I am going to read up on what I can, maybe order a book or two, and try and absorb the information so I can start naturally applying it to what I write moving on.

[Anonymous No.21338205]

>>21337764
If this was your opening I would t keep reading. You have something like a political díscussion off the bat. If the politics is important in your story and since it’s gistorical fiction I guess it is, you should introduce it via narrative. Here you are stuffing things into the character”s mouths and it is both confusing and sounds false.

Set the scene a kind of prologue if you must and then introduce the characters well before you have them talking politics.

[Anonymous No.21338213]

>>21338146
Get feedback

[Anonymous No.21338242]

>>21338205
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, in an attempt to avoid exposition dumping, I ended up just doing it to a lesser extent through dialogue instead.

[Anonymous No.21338243]

>>21338146
Even if you don't have talent, you can always learn and practice. People get good at things all the time, things they're not initially good at.
And even if you have talent, you might not have found your audience; universality of appeal is a myth.

[Anonymous No.21338250]

>>21338173
Major non sequitur there.
Perhaps your attempts at ERP fail because you "never had talent for writing".
In any case, there's no grounds for making others suffer.

[Anonymous No.21338292]

Where do you post if you're planning on writing a webnovel?

RR and SH pulled my story off because they don't like gore and loli sex scenes.

[Anonymous No.21338297]

>>21338292
>gore and loli sex scenes.
Scribble Hub?

[Anonymous No.21338303]

>>21338297
Yeah they pulled it because I wasn't doing that bullshit where this clearly lolicon character is actually 18+.

I'm actually thinking of self-publishing now since these sites have too many restrictions.

[Anonymous No.21338316]

>>21338303
>writes about gore and rape
I think you have to self-publish.

[Anonymous No.21338328]

>>21331470
>dude poetry but vulgar

stupid

[Anonymous No.21338332]

>>21331543
>every day,
>at 3 o'clock in the morning

you mean 'every night,' surely

>painfully recalled

drop the adverbs

ok stopped reading there, try again soon

[Anonymous No.21338386]

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this essay I'm in the process of writing. This is just the start, and I'm going to flesh it out further. Does the idea make sense? Is it interesting enough?

[Anonymous No.21338398]

>>21338328
>we can't swear or reference bodily functions
Into the YA trash pile you go.

[Anonymous No.21338424]

Indecisive until the eyes pass, and recede
Returning us only the shallow impression,
After intersection and afterthoughts,
Of the early fog shuttering smells of vacant rooms
Left trailing behind us in the afternoon —
Though all that we’ve since set down,
That we might learn to carve it out
With fingers gently curling, and agreed,
Reconciled unconsciously,
To be settled in a little steady sleep.

I’ve nothing today

[Anonymous No.21338426]

>>21338424
Just caught “after” and “afterthoughts” in the same line but I don’t really care to fix it

[Anonymous No.21338466]

>>21338139
Read "Techniques of the Selling Writer" by Dwight V. Swain.

[Anonymous No.21338472]

>>21338386
i'm an editor and we can sell this as nonfiction, what's your email address?

[Anonymous No.21338478]

>>21338242
Common mistake - you are identifying the problem (that exposition is boring), but you cannot simply fix it by moving it to dialogue. Expository dialogue is still exposition. There are techniques you can use to inject exposition into good storytelling, and most of them involve dialogue, but you will need to create a strong scene first (drama, conflict, characterization, etc.) then apply the setting & political exposition on top of that. Ideally they will be intrinsically linked, e.g. the reason a character is talking about politics is because of some established high-stakes problem the character has that the reader is already familiar with, and the outcome of the conversation should matter, i.e. dialogue needs a main purpose that isn't exposition.

[Anonymous No.21338490]

>>21338426
If you turn "intersection" into a word that starts similarly to "after" then it transforms from a mistake into a poetic device that seems intentional.

[Anonymous No.21338498]

Context: This Kyodai Hero-style character is afraid of how her transformations are affecting her.
>I've gotten a lot stronger since I started off. Every time I fight, I feel like I'm getting better at it, and not just in terms of skill, but in terms of my actual capabilities. I can do more, fight harder, move faster, take more hits, and I keep figuring out more uses for my powers.
>But recently, I've found it harder and harder to change back, and when I do change back I feel almost... Eager to go at it again. Is it just morbid curiosity over my development? My powers having an addicting effect on me? I don't even know, but I don't think it spells anything good

[Anonymous No.21338500]

>>21338490
I guess I’d put latter-days; relying too much on anything Latin-derived for the cognitive flow of things always manages to come out wrong anyway

[Anonymous No.21338508]

>>21338500
This would also recall “shuttering” to some extent but you really need three to make it work, and probably for them to be a little closer in spacing

[Anonymous No.21338522]

>omniscience villain
>hero wins by stuffing tons of power into the villain until he can't control it
Is that a bad way for the villain to die?

[Anonymous No.21338538]

>>21338522
It’s a little bit silly and the mechanics of it are derivative, too many things like that

[Anonymous No.21338545]

>>21338472
I thought about just publishing this as a Medium article or something, but if you're serious that would be really great.

[e-mail]

[Anonymous No.21338554]

>>21338522
So... the villain's not really omniscient?

[Anonymous No.21338556]

>>21338522
Not necesarily, maybe a bit cliché, but the defeat of the villain should be linked to some sort of development or sacrifice by the hero.

[Anonymous No.21338560]

>>21338545
Careful, anon. That could be a scammer.
> INB4 "CRAB!"
You can speak with them, just don't click any suspicious links or give away your more sensitive numbers.

[Anonymous No.21338565]

>>21338560
You are just jealous of my success.

[Anonymous No.21338568]

>>21338565
Alright then, get phished.

[Anonymous No.21338579]

>>21338545
Sent, thanks

[Anonymous No.21338596]

>>21338560
>>21338565
>>21338568
Wow...some people that claim to be writers can't see a cliché coming.
>>21338579
Why do you need to post in an anonymous forum that you've sent an e-mail? Won't the receiver know that already?
I feel like I'm dealing with toddlers. "Who put peanut butter on the cat?"

[Anonymous No.21338598]

>>21338522
If a prominent theme in your story is the danger of hubris, then no, it's very fitting.

[Anonymous No.21338607]

How do I not wear out the welcome and impact of hallucinations to the reader so they don't think "oh look another fakeout"
I've got subtle and blatant indicators, the character reacts varying ways to them as do the people around him, stakes are present, intensity and sense afflicted evolves, and they're spaced out in the story with their own arc of progression.

[Anonymous No.21338610]

>>21338545
>>21338579
Ignore this anon, I haven't sent the email yet. Expect it next week at the earliest. Thanks for accepting the offer

[Anonymous No.21338612]

> Write a story where bad guys (Most of them) just get away with everything.
Can this work?

[Anonymous No.21338615]

>>21338522
Sounds better than my ending. I'm planning to have my hero fuck the villain to death.

[Anonymous No.21338616]

>>21338612
Retarded question, the plot has to do with characters and their impact on the world and vice versa. Whether it works depends on the themes you are exploring and what effect these events have on the protagonist.

[sage No.21338618]

is /lit/'s /wg/ nazi shit? is it shameful to be associated with just like most if not all of 4chan?

[Anonymous No.21338629]

>>21338618
yes.

[Anonymous No.21338636]

>>21338607
By making it obvious when the character is hallucinating. Don't hide it, use dramatic irony, dangle it in front of the reader's face so they know without a shadow of a doubt that the narrator is unreliable. Clearly signal the moments when the POV character is hallucinating.
What you can do with twists (assuming that's the cliche you are going for) is introduce a twist later that makes sense, but that wasn't directly pointed out by the narrative earlier. So the readers know they are following an unreliable narrator, and they know when the environment is distorted through hallucinations, but they don't know the full scope of what's real and what isn't, and so they may guess, but they don't explicitly know what's coming next.
Hiding this kind of thing from the reader isn't compatible with making it the main crux of the story. It's not fun to read a story where you have no idea what's going on in any capacity at all.

[Anonymous No.21338640]

>>21338618
Yes? The type of people who shame the use of 4chan don't know what a "general" is. Nobody knows about this thread aside from people who use 4chan regularly, in fact most people don't even know 4chan is divided into boards.

[Anonymous No.21338680]

>>21338618
>>21338640 (Me)
I've talked about this before, but spread of ideology on 4chan is actually very similar to that of other websites, like Reddit. The only difference is that nazi posts aren't hidden or deleted because there's no downvotes on 4chan and only illegal or nsfw content is moderated. That's why you see /pol/ users leaking into the rest of the site and shitting in random generals sometimes. It's because they see nazi idpol posts and they're not explicitly flagged so they assume this website must all be for them. But if you pay attention to peoples ideology here you will quickly discover that nobody is actually a right wing extremist, with the exception of the occasional lost /pol/shitter, it's just a free speech site and people acclimated to the modern internet blow a gasket when they see that because the concept of an open marketplace of ideas is unfathomable to them.

[Anonymous No.21338702]

>>21338568
>>21338579
>>21338596
>>21338610
Since there seems to be a lot of confusion here regarding the emails, I am going to go ahead and post my reply here.

[Anonymous No.21338708]

>>21338702
attention whore faggot redditor

[Anonymous No.21338718]

>>21338708
posting your own shit on /r/4chan

[Anonymous No.21338717]

>>21338702
>>21338708
So... is he really an editor?

[Anonymous No.21338725]

>>21338717
Doesn't matter, he's a faggot. His posts repeatedly shit up /lit/

[Anonymous No.21338736]

>>21338386
>>21338472
>>21338545
>>21338560
>>21338565
>>21338568
>>21338579
>>21338702
>>21338717
>>21338718
>>21338725
samefag

[Anonymous No.21338737]

>>21338725
>gangweed guy is the editing4profit spammer with a gambling addiction
/wg/ lore grows.

[Anonymous No.21338739]

>>21338702
>Matthew Goldenberg
>numerous gaming articles, romance novels, and essays
>If You Give a Gay Their Way

[Anonymous No.21338780]

>>21330744
>>21330744
I feel like there's an untapped market of incelcore books. YA power fantasy does exist, but most MCs in those books are usually on the side of society.

I want to tap into this market by writing a power fantasy for incels.

Does anyone have any tips on how to write a morally reprehensible main character, and still have the audience like them?

While I am writing for a niche group, I still want to reach general audiences.

[Anonymous No.21338790]

>>21338780
“Fuck her. Well no. No, fuck her.

[Anonymous No.21338792]

Hiero kisses Travis on the mouth.

[Anonymous No.21338798]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0K-uoOlOUk

>people care more about characters than plot
Is he right?

>>21338780
It's already filled with self-help books and Youtube lectures from Jordan Peterson. Incels don't read fiction they need to have people tell them what to do.

[Anonymous No.21338801]

>>21338780
>>21338790
what this anon said.you need to lean how to write first

[Anonymous No.21338804]

>>21332252
It's cheesy and gay

[Anonymous No.21338807]

>>21338798
Incels do read fiction. Some people just don't know they're an incel. The progression fantasy scene is filled to the brim with these types.

[Anonymous No.21338809]

>>21338780
A book about a serial rapist who's basically Light Yagami.

[Anonymous No.21338811]

>>21338780
What do you think isekai litrpg is?

[Anonymous No.21338813]

>>21332546
Obviously not unthinkable you moron, there's clearly a market for it

[Anonymous No.21338817]

>>21330791
>>21331044
I agree, the first paragraph flows well. The only bigger thing I noticed is that awkward word order and sentence structure in the second sentence. These longer sentences should only be used when you cannot use s simpler one or when you want to accentuate something. Other than that, they should be used sparingly. I can't really say specifically what's wrong with the second paragraph. It just seems rushed and not well thought up. Also, don't overuse questions. They break the immersion (at least for me) and you had two of them in the text.

[Anonymous No.21338822]

>>21331454
Incredibly dull, don't exposit, show the reader the background through the character's interactions with the world

[Anonymous No.21338827]

>>21331572
Dance in the fire, Waughin Jarth

[Anonymous No.21338839]

>>21338811
Both of thse genres still don't usually have incel MCs. Name an MC in a current litrpg or isekai that is ugly and unwanted by women.

[Anonymous No.21338900]

>>21338839
The point isn't that the protagonist is an incel, it's that the target audience is an incel. It's literally moid wish fulfilment.

[Anonymous No.21338904]

>>21338780
>Does anyone have any tips on how to write a morally reprehensible main character, and still have the audience like them?
As long as he's not a pedophile or racist and the general audience will literally not care if he tortures people to death.

[Anonymous No.21338920]

>>21338780
The Emily Project in the author's pastebin has an incel MC.

[Anonymous No.21338951]

>>21338798
unless your plot is crazy good then yes
but tbqh when I try to recall books I've read very long time ago I remember imagery, atmosphere and singular most notable/striking scenes way more than I remember either the plot or the characters
also it very much depends on the genre and convention and the author's strengths, from some books I can remember quite a number of characters, from others literally none despite remembering something of the plot

[Anonymous No.21338958]

>>21338900
>literally moid wish fulfilment.
that's exactly what most LitRPGs are, just as romance as a genre is female wish fulfillment. you have the loser mc in the real world suddenly brought to an alternate one where they are given new skills or their existing "game knowledge" (lol) can catapult them to success. romance you have the frumpy, plain jane heroine who suddenly gets discovered by a whole assortment of cassanovas who do everything they can to win her heart. the litrpg genre has the powerless mc use his new skills to attain fame and have girls swoon left and right, the romance version has the femc merely exist and people fall all over themselves for her. both approaches showcase the underlying desire for each sex. men perform action and get rewarded. women merely exist.

[Anonymous No.21338962]

>>21338798
>>people care more about characters than plot
>Is he right?
It's true. Just look at the explosion of xianxia shit and progression fantasy. People read them to see how the main character gets stronger.

[Anonymous No.21338971]

>>21338958
>loser mc
Loser mc does not equal incel MC.

An incel MC would hate women and probably become a serial rapist. He would hate society and rebel against the current people in power who he would view as Chad's and stacies. The incel MC would also be ugly as fuck and women will never fall for him. He would also probably be a pedophile

[Anonymous No.21338979]

>>21338958
>>21338971
And if you wanted to make it really fun, he could overthrow the government and institute a weekly national mandatory mass rape policy and legalize sex trafficking.

[Anonymous No.21338997]

>>21338979
>a weekly national mandatory mass rape policy and legalize sex trafficking.
Nah an incel would only force legalized government wives for incels. An incel would never pass a law that can also benefit chad

[Anonymous No.21339034]

>>21333457
Brilliant

[Anonymous No.21339045]

>>21338971
>Loser mc does not equal incel MC
oh absolutely. litrpg caters to the incel audience - but incels only hate women because they don't recieve attention from them. wish fulfillment involves girls swooning and making harems. I doubt they'd want to read about an actual incel mc because it'd be damaging to their egos. sounds like it could be a fun story to write, however, to rub peoples noses in it.

[Anonymous No.21339065]

>>21338958
>both approaches showcase the underlying desire for each sex. men perform action and get rewarded. women merely exist.

[Anonymous No.21339100]

>writing to capitalize on lonely losers

There are way better things to write about that will get you rich.

[Anonymous No.21339110]

>>21339100
Wine aunts solving murders while going on sexual escapades?

[Anonymous No.21339118]

What should I do when I can write just fine in a forum rp buy can't motivate myself to write my own stuff?

[Anonymous No.21339124]

>>21339110
Yeah.
Anything that targets bored housewives is a good way to make money.

[Anonymous No.21339136]

>>21339118
Charge for erotic RPing.

[Anonymous No.21339144]

>>21333745
It's actually a really good idea for a memorable scene. Just do it.

[Anonymous No.21339187]

>>21339065
It's more like an average/slightly below average protagonist of either sex suddenly becomes, trough no effort or development by their part, extremely desirable for people way above what they could normally expect (3 or 4 10/10 men or women suddenly become infatuated with the protagonist's inner beauty)

[Anonymous No.21339189]

>>21333457
being stabbed with a blade smeared with regular vomit is bad enough

[Anonymous No.21339206]

>>21330744
I've been thinking of having my sociopath strong independent woman protagonist become pregnant and have a kid by the end of the story

[Anonymous No.21339211]

>>21339206
And then she abuses the kid?

[Anonymous No.21339215]

>>21339211
No, she acknowledges she would fuck him up so she drops it on the male protagonist (the dad) and bails

[Anonymous No.21339272]

rate

Swift roll the Rhine's billows, and water the plains,
Where Falkenstein Castle's majestic remains,
Their moss-cover'd turrets still rear;
Oft loves the gaunt wolf midst the ruins to prowl,
What Time from the battlements pours the lone owl
Her plaints in the passenger's ear.

No longer resound through the vaults of yon hall
The song of the minstrel, and mirth of the ball;
Those pleasures for ever are fled;
There now dwells the bat with her light-shunning brood;
There ravens and vultures now clamour for food,
And all is dark, silent, and dread!

[Anonymous No.21339275]

>write
>edit it until it's not cringe anymore and reads smoothly
>copy paste on website with different formatting than my text editor
>suddenly it's cringe again and reads like shit
anyone else with this problem?

[Anonymous No.21339285]

>>21339275
yes, keep refining the cringe away

[Anonymous No.21339312]

>>21339275
Kind of, I've noticed my manuscript looks great in comic sans, but reads like cringe in times new roman.

[Anonymous No.21339345]

>>21337650
>Can you expound on those "beats"? What do they look like?
simply a word or short phrase that helps to remind me what i need to accomplish at that particular point of the story.

[Anonymous No.21339360]

>>21339345
>Freytag's Pyramid
I hate these faggy pics that try to simplify story using imaginary lines/graphs. What the fuck does it mean? I could write whatever shitty thing I want where the excitement rises, peaks in the middle, then falls. That's not "tragedy", it's not even anything. It literally provides 0 information whatsoever. Is the graph supposed to represent the emotional state of the character? Ok, how? We know "tragedy" means "story where something sad happens" or even a slightly more sophisticated definition like "story where the main character falls from grace". That's just common vernacular. So how does a picture of a line in the shape of a triangle inform me about writing a tragedy? What are these powerpoint infographics like the hero's journey or the fagtag's pyramid supposed to accomplish? Is it some kind of masturbation for amateur authors to draw fancy symbols like their ejaculatory fanfic writing is a science? Or something for literature professors to flaunt in their students faces to seem smart because they know nothing about the industry? This probably reads like an ironic post but I'm being completely serious, can somebody please enlighten me on what the fuck these geometry shapes like triangles and circles are supposed to mean?

[Anonymous No.21339361]

>>21338725
https://www.scribd.com/document/551280851/Unfiltered

GWTM is literally better-written than all of the trash posted here, and I gave it away for free. I would go back and finish it, but my life savings was stolen and I can't afford a new copy of Final Draft. Call the cops, I don't give a fuck

[Anonymous No.21339385]

>>21339360
>he doesn't outline his story with matplotlib
ngmi

[Anonymous No.21339429]

>>21337650
>>21339345
No, a beat is the smallest story unit in fiction. Individual words are like atoms. Story beats are the molecules, the real building blocks of the story world. There are different categories or types of story beats including a line of dialogue, a moment of action, a moment of reaction, a moment of inaction, a visual image, an emotion, a setting, a theme, or an instance of meta-storytelling.
http://www.katherinecowley.com/blog/10-keys-to-writing-story-beats-in-novels-with-exercises/

[Anonymous No.21339450]

>>21339360
Wow...someone needs to touch grass.

[Anonymous No.21339474]

>>21336968
>ESLtrash
This is a selfish request, but would mind tilling me how you learned to spell english?
This post is spelled correctly, but only because of Aspell and my phone's speech to text. I have been looking for a way to reduce my use of this software(especially my phone) so I can write at a responsible speed and more software freedom.
Also, "Far away as the day you say I do" has I good rhythm to it, at lest with the brackets. You can use new lines to force that rhythm on the reader. like
>Far away
>as the day you say
>I do
but I suck at poetry and exclusively work on prose need my phone to spell half of English so what do I know?

[Anonymous No.21339516]

>>21339474
not that anon but esls generally have better spelling than anglos (at the cost of worse grammar) because when they learn the spelling along with learning the word for the first time, while anglos first learn the word and spelling comes later, creating weaker association
I'm recently constantly finding myself misspelling English words as their homophones (something like "steal" instead of "still", I'm usually immediately able to catch it and fix it) but that came very recently, only since I started reading and writing in English more seriously. Somehow trouble with spelling must be correlated with fluency, but idk I'm no scientist

[Anonymous No.21339531]

>>21339429
okay, call them 'prompts' then. during the outline i break my acts down into sequences and use fraytag's pyramid as a kind of roadmap within each sequence aid me in making it feel like a complete unit. every 'prompt' is a word or short phrase that represents a stage of the pyramid within a sequence.

[Anonymous No.21339599]

How do you know if someone is ESL?

[Anonymous No.21339620]

>>21339599
ESLs type formally all the time and can't into informal language or tone.

[Anonymous No.21339621]

>>21339599
How do you know, if someone is esl?*

Fixed. Maybe your the ESl one over here anon.

[Anonymous No.21339642]

>>21339621
I hope you're baiting

[Anonymous No.21339716]

>>21339599
I don't think it's a matter of someone being ESL or not, since the things many Americans write here still sound like they were written by an Ivan from Russia. It's more a question of IQ, I think.

[Anonymous No.21339736]

>>21339716
You're an ESL, I can tell from your tone and grammar

[Anonymous No.21339746]

>>21339716
“an Ivan from Russia” gave you away but other than that you sound exceptional in the best sense

[Anonymous No.21339748]

>>21330791
Nothing about the content, but this format should be the enforced standard for all of /wg/

[Anonymous No.21339790]

>>21339748
I like indentations.

[Anonymous No.21339872]

>write smut
>man fucks female bug alien
>????

[Anonymous No.21339884]

how do I learn to write decent dialogue as an autistic esl
prose is doable enough but all my dialogue I think is utterly dreadful and soulless

[Anonymous No.21339885]

Which reads better?

"Blah blah blah," said Jim.
or
"Blah blah blah," Jim said.

[Anonymous No.21339887]

henlo i got drunk and sad, putting this out just because i want to and this is the most shameless platform to share it

[Anonymous No.21339891]

>>21339887
2 durnk 2 attack file sorrij

[Anonymous No.21339895]

>>21339885
The first one is archaic, it reads storybook-like, or like a children's fairy tale. It can work if you're trying to evoke that feeling on purpose. Otherwise the second one.
The archaic quality is more obvious when using a pronoun, e.g. "Blah blah blah," said he.

[Anonymous No.21339901]

I can't write normal shit
I can't write anything at all
I can't even write lowly ERP
I am going to fucking kill myself soon
couldnt write pulp, serious, non fiction, literary, not even erotica
I have no way with words, Im crying and I cant tell how it makes me feel

[Anonymous No.21339906]

>>21339901
cant even write ERP?
bro just say shit like
Sonic the hedgehog thrusted his spiky dick deep into Shadow the hedgehogs puffy, surprisingly relaxed, anus.
Their hips shook vigorously as tender satisfaction surged, and Sonic shot his blue hedgehog seed deep into Shadows sphincted.
Both lying down, Sonic's cock still deep inside shadow, they sighed, hugged tighter than they did previously, and through Sonic's wimpering lips the words "i love you" were uttered.

[Anonymous No.21339915]

>>21339516
Do ELS learn spelling by "sounding it out" because that's how I was taught how to spell and it was such a disaster the I was told I could never learn (despite no precedent.)

[Anonymous No.21339916]

>>21339901
It floors me that words, something so key and beautiful reject me like this. I tell myself I am visual but am I really? I regret everything, existence is nothing but pain
>>21339906
It's not even about the ERP, I want to write. Nice joke btw, but I can't do it.
It's like I've got nothing going on behind the eyes.

[Anonymous No.21339922]

>>21339916
Take a step back from it, you’re fine. Meditate and try your best not to force things, understand yourself but do not categorize. Everything’s okay; for better or for worse it’s all in your head

[Anonymous No.21339927]

>>21339922
Nah, it's not. You saw my writing back then, stilted and obtuse in a bad way or simple, no inbetween.
/trash/?
>>52791596
He means there's certain conditions to achieve suspension of disbelief for roleplay to function and you ain't got it nigga, which leads me to

>>52790645 (You) So get a different hobby you fucking geed

Any further self bumps just confirm that you're acting in bad faith and knowingly being a nuisance

[Anonymous No.21339936]

>>21339927
I’m a different guy I think but even if you’re complete dog shit now you can only hope to get better, that’s all any of us can hope for
“And so each venture
Is a new beginning, a raid on the inarticulate
With shabby equipment always deteriorating
In the general mess of imprecision of feeling,
Undisciplined squads of emotion. And what there is to conquer By strength and submission, has already been discovered
Once or twice, or several times, by men whom one cannot hope To emulate—but there is no competition—
There is only the fight to recover what has been lost
And found and lost again and again: and now, under conditions That seem unpropitious. But perhaps neither gain nor loss.
For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.“

[Anonymous No.21339938]

>>21339915
esls learn spelling from a textbook, when they first learn a word they see it written and they usually also have to write it themselves in the notebook. They are learning new words and their spelling at the same time.

[Anonymous No.21339939]

A life spent crying and yelling. my brain, it's final purpose,to have someone scrub it off the fucking walls.

[Anonymous No.21339955]

>>21339939
Chill out, anon. Do some push-ups or something.

[Anonymous No.21339972]

>>21339938
also esls don't confuse things like for example there, their and they're because they learn them in different contexts
>"there" is learned alongside "where" and "here" in a lesson about pointing at things
>"their" is learned in a lesson about possessive pronouns
>"they're" is learned as the cool thing you can do if you want to say "they are" but be casual about it
anglos can confuse these because early in their lives they only hear all of them being spoken and sounding the same

[Anonymous No.21339976]

>>21339955
We are talking /trash/
When even fucking /trash/ tells me that I take people out of my text, I am never going to be a good writer.

[Anonymous No.21339996]

>>21339976
Fuck what other people think, man. What exactly is the problem? What do YOU want to write about?

[Anonymous No.21339999]

I feel like I'm going crazy. Whenever I attempt a creative endeavor, such as writing a short story, or even flash fiction or whatever, I always end up falling victim to a sudden block which prevents me from writing more about it, even if I want to.

Where as essay writing comes as easily to me as creative writing did back when I was very young and very self-unaware, where I can easily write a 10 page essay in the span of 5 hours and then come back and edit it into a good essay in that effectively communicates my ideas in about 30 minutes to an hour, etc.

I want to write a short story, I know for a fact that I love creative writing, as in the rare occasions I manage to temporarily block myself off from the world with only a blank page and an idea in my mind, I will get carried away and do nothing but write for about 2 hours before I suddenly become aware of myself; and then when I look over it again, I can edit it, but continuing it suddenly becomes loathsome to me, as if there were a plate of squirming, pregnant cockroaches in front of me and I had to lick the plate clean.

[Anonymous No.21340062]

>>21339736
The only two distinctive things here are that the post has a bit of snark to it and is also 'formal' by being wordy, eg.:
>"a matter of someone being ESL or not"
But this isn't something a dirty am*rican couldn't write himself.

[Anonymous No.21340079]

>>21340062
Nice try esl. The giveaway is the comma before "I think" and the grammar-completeness of the post. No native speaker would put a comma and a period there in a 4chan post. All the factors you listed come into play, but that comma is the strongest heuristic.

[Anonymous No.21340082]

>>21339891
Fix the first line. Remove "up being." It serves no purpose here.

Fixed:
>Fucked a kid
>Love was always one sided
>I don't care
>I still miss it

[Anonymous No.21340087]

>>21339972
I got called an ESL here when I posted a passage without any grammar mistakes. The critic never explained why, but he insisted the way I wrote indicated I was an ESL. To this day, I wondered what he meant.

[Anonymous No.21340097]

>>21340087
>To this day
This is what gives you away as ESL.

[Anonymous No.21340101]

You know, in spite of the fact that I'm a native speaker of English, I've never actually thought about the comma.

I sometimes catch myself inserting unnecessary commas into sentences, which at first look alright, then odd when I read over it, then I instinctively remove the comma and read it once more. The sentences still seems strange to my, at least until I actually read it aloud; only then does my decision to remove the comma make sense; and I realize that the sentence was complete without a comma, if that makes any sense.

[Anonymous No.21340106]

>>21339938
>They are learning new words and their spelling at the same time.
This is a big problem for me, my vocabulary is way ahead of what I can spell and I don't know what grade level I would be at. Fuck me, I need to find someone who specializes in dyslexia to fix this shit ones and for all.

[Anonymous No.21340112]

>>21340079
Are you fucking retarded? Everyone ought to put a comma there, even in a casual context. Otherwise, "I think" loses its place and prominence in that short sentence. The comma sets it apart from the rest, and it's there for the dramatic effect.

[Anonymous No.21340122]

>>21340101
Umm... buddy.

[Anonymous No.21340155]

>>21340154
>>21340154

[Anonymous No.21340187]

New thread
>>21340186
>>21340186
>>21340186

[Anonymous No.21340421]

>>21339906
>>21339922
>>21339936
>>21339996
Don't bother giving advice to this self-flagellator. He just wants to shit up the thread with his moaning.

[Anonymous No.21340433]

>>21340122
It's amazing that it missed the actual typo.