/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.21305010]

Blood Meridian Edition

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM
https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s
https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk

Thread Theme:
https://youtu.be/eZpliatJMGs

Previous Thread:
>>21290541

[Anonymous No.21305029]

No one writes.

[Anonymous No.21305030]

First for thesaurus

[Anonymous No.21305044]

>>21305010
trying to get back into the swing of writing, wrote this short thing the other day

[Anonymous No.21305078]

>>21305044
Pretty good base for an excellent story.

[Anonymous No.21305120]

posted this for critique a while ago, didn't get many responses. haven't written anything since. thoughts?

[Anonymous No.21305137]

>>21305044
That other anon is fucking with you

[Anonymous No.21305152]

>>21305137
Cut your dick off. It's good.

[Anonymous No.21305183]

>>21305120
Dig the formatting

[Anonymous No.21305189]

>>21305044
"it was the Bible" had me dying. good job, anon

[Anonymous No.21305210]

>>21305152
if you keep saying things like this one day it will happen and you will look back at this and feel very silly

[Anonymous No.21305214]

>One movie ruined the kino phrase "black stallion" forever
What other examples of this have you encountered

[Anonymous No.21305222]

>>21305152
If they're writing a Hanna Barbara era cartoon, sure. Is the guy's name George Jefferson? Is the fly's name Jerry?

[Anonymous No.21305231]

>>21305044
Cut down on the pronouns, jesus man

[Anonymous No.21305232]

>>21305044
Various incomplete sentences and one grammatical mistake off the ellipses with no space and no capital letter after

>>21305120
Same, the use of ellipses is breaking like three different rules of grammar

And why is there such weird fonts? Like the most common “I’m an amateur retard”. Courier. 12 pt. Double space. Learn the craft or always present yourself as a mentally crippled dilettante

[Anonymous No.21305238]

Will you make writing gains as long as you dedicate time to it? Even if you can only dedicate an hour on some days? Is it worth it rather than relying on an uncertain possibility you might be able to write for three-five hours?

[Anonymous No.21305340]

>>21305222
One flew over the cuckoo's nest had a similar tone. It was casual at times but carried a harsh undertone the more you read. That writing style is easier to build off of. What do you want him to say instead?

[Anonymous No.21305370]

>>21305340
That this has no way indicating what could be a great story. And that it's not amazing, the writing is actually all around average, both stylistically and conceptually. Never said it was bad. It's just not good either.
Just because you can compare it to a half a century old book that's had its stylization bled dry now doesn't mean squat.

[Anonymous No.21305378]

>>21305370
I think you like the smell of your own farts, anon.

[Anonymous No.21305418]

>>21305378

[Anonymous No.21305431]

>>21305222
hide tripfag posts
ignore tripfag posts
do not reply to tripfag posts

[Anonymous No.21305500]

>>21305238
Gains comes more from having written and reviewing your work. Less from the writing itself. Having others critique your work also helps. They're might not be right in their criticism, but if you get enough people to critique you can establish patterns of things that are brought up as a negative.

[Anonymous No.21305508]

I'm not a great writer. Lets say I just finished a story and it's bad. How do I use it to improve? Have I already improved by writing it, or is there something that I should now actively do to use it to improve my writing?

[Anonymous No.21305530]

>>21305508
read more of the best literature humans have created. write more of the best literature you can create. there's no shortcut or how-to guide. we all want to think that we have the secret keys to excellence, but none of us does. you read more and you write more. you figure out what you like then you do your best to create it. you're gonna like things other people don't like. you're gonna dislike things other people like. figure those things out for yourself. make sure you are taking time out of your day for both of these things and you will inevitably move closer towards your literary and aesthetic peak... if you can manage to avoid the pit of despair with which all serious writers are familiar, and if you can self-recover if/when you fall in.

put the work in, anon.

[Anonymous No.21305559]

>>21305010
This is a first draft of some bullshit I thought of, kind of a ripoff of Abbot and Costello who's on first but in medieval times, thinking of how i should change it/add to it.

[Anonymous No.21305567]

>>21305530
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.21305581]

>>21305010
After two short story collections published, one of which was shortlisted for an award, i'm knuckling down and writing my first novel.
Wish me luck anons!

[Anonymous No.21305598]

>>21305508
Look up the Ben Franklin method.

[Anonymous No.21305610]

>>21305120
I like this. It's not perfect but it could be polished into publishable work. Much better than the drek that is usually posted here.

[Anonymous No.21305619]

>>21305530
How do I recover? How do I break out? I tend to wait until I magically levitate out of the pit a few feet away.

[Anonymous No.21305624]

>>21305010
>Simple guides on writing:

Are there not better writing videos for the thread? These are what I would send to a child or an ESL. Too simple.

[Anonymous No.21305627]

>>21305598
Isn't that what you use to compile the best coom material for AI?

[Anonymous No.21305631]

>>21305010
I'm doing Nanowrimo and No nut November and I think I might finish both. Most productive month of my life. I've already written nearly 50k words.

[Anonymous No.21305665]

Currently doing a read-through of my first draft and leaving notes for stuff I want to change. This is the easy part. Once I start making the actual changes it's going to be a pain to keep the whole plot consistent.
>>21305581
Good luck and congrats!

[Anonymous No.21305716]

>>21305120
It’s an odd piece of writing. If you are going to write genre fiction make it genre and abide by the conventions. If you are doing something else then keep the genre stuff out of it. As it is now it just feels bizarre in a way that’s hard to critique.

[Anonymous No.21305725]

>>21305508
You have to rewrite it until it’s good.

[Anonymous No.21305912]

>>21305044
I like it! It's fun and kept me reading.
The prose could flow better. Right off the bat, "he heard buzzing" is too indirect, too distant. Instead of saying that he hears that there's a buzz, try to say that there's a buzz. Not sure about the exact phrasing but that would simultaneously trim some fat and make it more intimate.
>his prized possession, a framed picture of his wife & child
I assume the first refers to the second, but I'm not totally sure. Perhaps merge it into "the framed picture of his wife & child", it's more compact and still implies it's one of a kind.

Somebody says to cut down on the pronouns and I agree. "He [...]" is a fine baseline but it's too repetitive here.

[Anonymous No.21306056]

>>21305716
What an Npccore take

[Anonymous No.21306229]

>>21305010
Question:
Do you guys like it when there are lots of things you don't understand in a book? Things that are mentioned by name, but not explained? Especially things about magic and the world order?

[Anonymous No.21306296]

>>21306229
No. I tend to skip those words as it means nothing to me. I m reading shadow of blood,and the author keeps mentioning thrall, I had no idea what he meant and figured it was a monster. It was just a slave. Didn't help he kept having these thralls have monster charactersistics

[Anonymous No.21306319]

>>21306229
It’s fine. It does build some tension or suspense not knowing. There’s a general assumption that the description or explanation will come sooner or later at an appropriate point.

It’s better to leave something unexplained than to ruin the flow in order to explain this thing you’re talking about.nnh2h

[Anonymous No.21306336]

>Read Ghost Stories of an Antiquary
>The entire story is telling
>Still engaging and at times even spookt

How did M.R James do it.

[Anonymous No.21306406]

[Anonymous No.21306444]

>>21306229
Yes. But it has to make me wonder about what's going on instead of making me feel like an idiot.
>>21306406
Sounds like the writer is feeling sentimental and venting his frustrations. There should be a resolution.

What do you guys think? It took me a while to make revisions here, I wanted to give this scene more punch. The first chapter is pretty much done.

[Anonymous No.21306449]

>>21306444
Ignore tripfag posts
Hide tripfag posts
Do not reply to tripfag posts

[Anonymous No.21306454]

>>21306449
There's not a single tripfag in the entire thread.

[Anonymous No.21306462]

>>21304341
>I write novels, poetry, short stories... I just write. As far as genre, the genre I'm attempting to write in is "writing." I try to do it good, and to celebrate not things like plot, story, characters, but the form of writing itself.
This is called "masturbation". What successful novelists do is storytelling, something you probably aren't familiar with.

[Anonymous No.21306483]

>>21305010

[Anonymous No.21306513]

I hated writing long works, so instead I've decided to do one/two page works at a time. I feel like shit and I'm tired, but I feel like this one wasn't too bad. Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.21306630]

>>21306513
"the difference [...] rather thin" is a weird metaphor for the opening sentence. Took me a moment to figure out, which took me out of the narrative immediately. It's also a bit verbose. I'd change "is rather thin - as I have found out." to "is small."

[Anonymous No.21306693]

>>21305029
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.21306766]

>>21306693
Shut up samefag. This isn't /r/writing, there are literal screenshots of people writing and asking for critique every thread.

[Anonymous No.21306974]

Do you guys read screenplays? This one's only 19 pages long.

https://docdro.id/VLMhFMF

[Anonymous No.21307203]

>Don't use adverbs
>Don't use passive voice
>Reading classic literature and see this rules broken all the time
Can someone explain

[Anonymous No.21307233]

>>21307203
>Don't use adverbs
>Don't use passive voice
>Reading amateur work and see this rules broken ALL the time

[Anonymous No.21307282]

>>21307203
Most rules weren't clearly set out until the 20th century. The Elements of Style is originally from 1918.
Also, nobody says that you must never use those things (unless you're Gabriel Garcia Marquez), just limit them to when they're really necessary.

[Anonymous No.21307304]

>>21307203
The rules can be broken by experts. Classic literature usually falls under the marketing term "literary fiction" which is basically the genre for artfags who don't want to admit they just reading another genre like any other book. Also, like another anon said, the style has evolved over the years. It's more competitive now.
The rules about adverbs, passive voice, and such are simply what people expect now. It's the current style. And there are practical reasons for it. Fiction needs to be more engaging to capture the attention of modern audiences. These rules cause prose to have more power, and make it more concise. If you pay attention you will notice the root advice isn't "don't use adverbs" it's "use stronger and more descriptive verbs", using less adverbs is just the way to explain it to little piss babies who don't understand basic principles.

[Anonymous No.21307306]

>>21307203
Oh yeah and don't use participle phrases. They are the new thing that make work look amateur, the writing advice hasn't caught up yet.

[Anonymous No.21307312]

Adverbs are important for comedic writing.

[Anonymous No.21307430]

>>21305581
Good luck, bro

[Anonymous No.21307533]

>>21307312
The only thing adverbs are unimportant for is functional prose.
Midwits view prose as being primarily a mechanism for style, with what it's conveying being secondary to that. It's not.
The first function of prose is to tell a story. Events happen, it's like actors performing drama on a stage, and the prose is meant to beam those events into the reader's mind. If that becomes secondary to "style" then what ends up is shit. Or worse, the author tricks themselves into thinking writing is about the words alone and nothing to do with drama or storytelling principles.
Hemmingway's genius akin to that of Alfred Hitchcock in that he completely identified the function of story prose (to narrate sequences of events with actors in the reader's mental stage to tell a story) and put everything else secondary to that.

[Anonymous No.21307537]

>>21307533 (Me)
The function of prose being action (in the dramatic stortelling sense) is also why verbs are the single most important word for a writer.

[Anonymous No.21307742]

>>21305010
issue21
things are weird here (shanghai) rn
send submissions to [e-mail]
full issues: minimag.space

[Anonymous No.21307763]

>>21307742
Not sure what this is, but for a moment I thought you were a bot posting a GitHub issue.

[Anonymous No.21307815]

>>21307533
>The first function of prose is to tell a story
Ah! Exactly like how the first function of painting is to depict an object, right?

[Anonymous No.21307834]

I haven't written in a long, long time, but this was my attempt at re-writing an older story of mine.

[Anonymous No.21307838]

>The first function of painting is to depict an object. Objects are present, it's like a cornucopia existing on a table, and the paint is meant to beam those objects into the reader's eye. If that becomes secondary to "style" then what ends up is shit. Or worse, the painter tricks themselves into thinking painting is about the form alone and nothing to do with objects or object-choice principles.

[Anonymous No.21307853]

>>21307533
bugman take. i don't get why you people are so eager to turn yourself into the writing equivalent of a sweatshop worker.

[Anonymous No.21307859]

>>21307853
It's just bait at this point. Shit on it in passing if you'd find that fun, but there's no point in engaging. It's probably just Gardner anyway.

[Anonymous No.21307875]

>>21307815
False equivalence. Fabula is made up, stories are complex and have creative traits like theme and morality. The visual language of painting carries the art, but if you do that with fiction, it's no longer fiction, it's just words.

[Anonymous No.21307891]

>>21307838
Consider it this way:
If I paint an apple it will always be an apple. If I paint random squiggles it will be nothing. But I can make an impressionist painting of an apple, where it's obviously still an apple, but it's distorted and seen through a unique perspective, it suddenly has strong artistic merit.
Likewise if I write a description of a guy named Bob it's equally as boring as the apple. If I just write random flowery words that I think evoke feelings of sadness or happiness, it's just noise, it is doing nothing. But there's a hundred different ways I can protray Bob's character, showing his reactions to stimulus, acting certain ways, saying certain things, making decisions, and that has artistic merit.
In both cases, the first and primary function is the object, not the style. You apply the style to the object, you don't just shit style all over the place. Unless you're a poet, but then we're not talking about prose, we are talking about verse, which is a different beast entirely.
>Captcha: GAYDA

[Anonymous No.21307920]

>>21307875
If you can't see the rhythm and flow of language as something that has its own intrinsic beauty, that's not really my problem. It makes you seem like a retard, for the record, but I'm not gonna shoulder that particular burden myself. The medium is the message.
>>21307891
>If I paint random squiggles it will be nothing
Beautiful art doesn't need to be about anything. Art is art is art. The line between poetry and prose is an artificial line that you're trying real hard to pretend is some kind of objective, real distinction. It's just your personal preference that you're trying to cloak in a veneer of logic and objectivity. You prefer literature to obey an arbitrary set of rules and formulations because that's how you deal with the crushing knowledge in the back of your head that the whole framework is a house of cards. It's pretty boring to me. If you don't find that boring, knock yourself out. I know that because this is the internet and you can avoid admitting that I have a point here, you'll probably just dodge it entirely, but let me just say that if this approach works for you, fine. It's literally whatever. Just don't try to couch it in some dumb rhetoric and pretend that what you're saying is The Way To Write For Geniuses (opposite """""midwit""""" I assume). It's just not.

[Anonymous No.21307935]

Where's the apple?

[Anonymous No.21308104]

>>21307203
You're reading rules written by amateurs.

[Anonymous No.21308121]

Why The Kid raped all these kids bros.... Gahd damn

[Anonymous No.21308128]

>>21307920
>The line between poetry and prose is an artificial line that you're trying real hard to pretend is some kind of objective, real distinction.
No, it's a literal academic distinction with different forms. Writing has prose, poetry has verse.

[Anonymous No.21308130]

>>21307935
This is the equivalent of literary fiction. Notice how it evokes nothing in people who don't sniff their own farts for a living. It's not making a statement, it's just paint splatter on a page.

[Anonymous No.21308200]

>>21307920
>If you can't see the rhythm and flow of language as something that has its own intrinsic beauty, that's not really my problem.
That's fine for rap songs, but I wouldn't want to read several hundred pages of Eminem lyrics.

[Anonymous No.21308220]

>>21307203
Take any general writing advice that doesn't come from someone who's actually looking at your work with a spoonful of salt. Half of this shit has been parroted back and forth so much that the advice has been oversimplified and lost its original intent. Writers will badmouth adverbs and point to Stephen King's quote, "The road to hell is paved with adverbs," from On Writing, all while ignoring the examples he takes issue with have to do with redundancy(she shouted menacingly) and weak word choices(he closed the door firmly). Not to mention how he admits to taking all the adverbs out, then putting half of them back in. Don't even get me started on "show, don't tell."

In my experience, nothing has helped my writing more than reading widely, and analyzing what works and what doesn't.

[Anonymous No.21308274]

>>21308128
>it's a literal academic distinction with different forms
Those who can, do. Those who can't either ingratiate themselves to the academic establishment or dye their hair blue and work for publishers. It's also a huge appeal to authority to gesture wildly (and vaguely) at academia to support your idea, but it's hard to gracefully accuse anyone of that so I'm just gonna call you an ass hat.
>>21308130
Okay, Gardner.

[Anonymous No.21308335]

I just want to write cool stories why do I have to abide by all these stupid prose rules? I’m not trying to write a James Joyce novel.

[Anonymous No.21308345]

Zoomer here. I've been trying to put together the framework for a series of small stories. I've a few central themes and ideas I'd like to expand on in each story, but the problem I'm running into is that I can't properly work out the features and idiosyncrasies of each character. My dialogue is robotic and lacking any originality. I want to believe that I just need to hunker down and write more, but I think I'm just not cultured enough and haven't experienced life enough to write something worth a read. I tried writing a short story last night, but I had to discard it because I was jumping around all over the place and couldn't flesh out scenes or the moods of particular characters.

[Anonymous No.21308401]

>>21308345
You have enough life experience to write until the end of time by the time you are 19. When you write you need to let go, be curious for each word, to wonder, in the moment, where is this going? It is mostly automatic. When you write, write, and don't think. Don't judge. Don't pause to 'think', because your best thoughts are hiding from you. You need to type fast without stopping before the good thoughts know you are coming, and then, in a flash they are caught, on the page, and they may be a little haggard from the capture, but you can comb their hair later, right now you just need to get them down and at your mercy, of which you are of course abundant.

I personally find it best to start with a scenario, and then just write. You can try and write an outline too in this way, as fast as possible, or a character sketch. Don't pause to fix spelling or grammar or nonsense, just type. You have to not care and not judge yourself and feel really safe or you'll freeze up. I will freewrite in a moment on a generic situation: a man walks into a bar. I'm going to try and find something that happens, what this guy wants, where he is, what he is doing, what might happen.

walks into a bar big dress barmaid german has an accent cigarette not lit no smoking like big sausage and old magazines cars vroom vroom muscle cars america but hes swiisss and at least thins he is bt his parents come from bavaria which is on a map and he likes maps he draws them for fun he takes himself down to bar and say beer and has never had neber before hates beer when he tries it couhs spits whats this shit he hates it barmaid laughs in german emen are looking at him judging him old man laughs and he shuts what you think you laughing at i like beer beer you are not old enough son so we have fathers and sons and barmaids he loves a girl hes sad for a girl so he says im going to a bar for drinking but in his shoe is a rcricket jiminy cricke tnad he comes out and gives him three wishes while time stops and his first wish is aggghhh go away and so the cricket goes and the bar comes to life and on the tv he sees the girl he loves has been run over by an elephant called cricket and the german makes a funny remark about never to look at the elephant trunk because there's always a blind man near by telling you its a penis.

I'm done. I wrote a lot of stupid shit. But maybe one of those details stands out and I take that and just repeat the process, refine it. Maybe I take the idea that he came to the city to find his parents, but never did, but he falls in love with a girl, but they never get together, and now he's all fucked up and depressed at a bar, even though he doesn't drink. I could expand on the old men who make fun of him, and make that a scene. Or the cricket in his shoe might take precedence, and this might be a sort of moral story about letting fear overcome you or something. You need to get over the hump of self-doubt.

[Anonymous No.21308440]

>>21308335
Because if your prose is bad people will like it less. If it's bad enough they won't understand you. And even wrong punctuation is enough to distract people, to take them out of it.
A lot of the rules take no effort to follow once you're used to them. Definitely don't skip those.

[Anonymous No.21308505]

>>21308440
Well yeah, obviously stuff like correct spelling and grammar is important for communicating what you’re trying to say but shit like “don’t use adverbs because its bad and look at this Stephen King quote”

[Anonymous No.21308539]

>>21308505
It shouldn't be that surprising to you that everyone wants to reduce complexity to a series of generic maxims and recommendations. Why? Because it's a convenient stand-in for the (otherwise absent) concept of quality in writing. Good writing is writing that follows the rules, bad writing is what doesn't. It's the easiest possible route, and gives you the best possible chance at sparing yourself the ego hit when people don't like your writing. It's also an effective defense mechanism. The harder and ultimately more rewarding route is to read a lot and write a lot and develop your own tastes for yourself. Let the only thing that penetrates your little vacuum-sealed writing bubble be the actual written works of others. On Writing books are almost invariably written by people who've never written anything of note — academics, mostly. Disregard them.

[Anonymous No.21308577]

>>21308505
If you thoughtlessly overuse adverbs your sentences will read less pleasantly.
It's worth being critical about your own adverb use. You'll become better at constructing sentences. The better your prose flows, the more people will enjoy your writing.
It shouldn't be a rule though. Use adverbs, just use them right.

[Anonymous No.21308592]

This might be a long shot, but are there any screenwriters here with experience of their scripts being produced? I have recently finished a second draft of a screenplay (it still has some revisions to be made, but overall I'm confident of its quality), and I am wondering what the next steps are if I want to see it realised as a film. Every website I check out seems to assume you want to make a blockbuster in Hollywood or you have made short films in the past, neither of which is the case for me.

[Anonymous No.21308597]

>>21308592
not me, but noone will even look at your script without a referral

[Anonymous No.21308600]

>>21308592
This is the best lead I've come across. Essentially post your script for $30 a month and hope an agent finds it
https://blcklst.com/register/writer/

[Anonymous No.21308635]

https://pastebin.com/RDbe0mSS

[Anonymous No.21308691]

>>21305120
>>21305120
Nits
>plainer than she
plainer than her
>donning camo hoodies
They are literally putting on the hoodies at that moment?
>the voice replies
Shouldn't the guy know his name? Or at least call him 'the contact' or something?
>"Dude, it's your turn," someone...
>Someone behind me calls out, "Dude, it's your turn...
You're in the middle of a back and forth between two characters. Put the talk tag in front when a third party intrudes.

What kind of retard mistakes Marlboros for American Spirits? Is this a gen z thing?

Summarizing dialog makes the scene weaker. Either play out the initial small talk or cut it out.


It's first person, but you could still remove a lot of the 'I's and filtering.
>I spot Sarah coming through the door.
>Sarah comes through the door.

[Anonymous No.21308696]

Idea - erotica about an attractive liberal seducing and changing Donald Trump.

Trump fits everything women want in a man.
>Billionaire
>Brash
>An untamable and unlikable beast
>All he needs is liberal pussy

[Anonymous No.21308736]

>>21307834
>marched upon
This combination of words is usually used in a different context. For example:
>The following days we marched upon Williamsport , which place we reached about dark, and went into camp just opposite the town.

>Discolored flesh was evident in them
Flesh of any color cannot be evident IN them. That literally means that discolored flesh is inside them. Doesn't make sense.

>It was as shallow as the restless sea they traversed.
Were they not marching just five sentences ago? Also, shallow waters are usually less restless, since you know they're shallow. The deeper the water, the faster the waves travel.

Yeah, I'm not reading the rest. It's badly written and incomprehensible. Pretty sure this is a shitpost now.

[Anonymous No.21308764]

>>21308736
you are the most sanctimonious, unbearable pseud in this general. please just go away and stop posting, or take a trip so the rest of us can filter you.

[Anonymous No.21308769]

>>21307834
The first paragraph made no sense to me. You're using big words where they don't fit. Sure you have vocabulary, but the vocabulary doesn't fit in the context.

[Anonymous No.21308799]

>>21305120
It's not interesting. Very trite. Already from the start: "shitfaced", "who gives a shit", "chilled piss", blah blah blah. Who gives a shit? It doesn't stand out.

And even though you are self-aware ("This is supposed to make me look cool and nihilistic."), it's still an annoying, boring, ugly read. There was no point in writing the piece that way. Nailing all the stereotypes wasn't insightful nor was it particularly funny.

[Anonymous No.21308816]

>>21308736
>>21308769
I used an online ai editor, thinking it could make my life easier ;(.
Albeit it's not like the original was any better.

[Anonymous No.21308817]

>>21308764
What do you disagree with? Didn't I correct the thing you wrote a few threads back as well? Are you still pissy about that?

[Anonymous No.21308838]

Anyone use the I Ching for writing? Any tips? I know PKD used it.

[Anonymous No.21308841]

>>21308817
you're not worth anyone's time. the only thing even vaguely noteworthy about the "critique" you penned is the mystifyingly confident tone in which it was related. you can tell a lot about the way someone critiques writing, if you know how to look. that you can express only the most tangential bullshit (uhhhhhh deep water go fast uuooooohhh) is not worth the fart-sniffing tone of unearned superiority you adopt. you are obnoxious and say nothing of importance but really give yourself a boner in the process of saying it. again, go away.
>Didn't I correct the thing you wrote a few threads back as well?
what are you talking about, retard?

[Anonymous No.21308865]

>>21308736
Autism

[Anonymous No.21308872]

Critique the structure, dialogue and plot please. I want to get better

https://dickhicks.wordpress.com/2022/11/27/indian-man-forced-to-watch-black-bull-fuck-the-wife-noncon-cheating-cuckold-rough-sex-interacial/

[Anonymous No.21308878]

>>21308872
there's a writing general thread on /trash/ that's probably more up your speed.

[Anonymous No.21308880]

>>21308872
Okay.
I hate it.

[Anonymous No.21308905]

>>21308841
>the most tangential bullshit
The critiques are nitpicky, you're right. But there's nothing else to critique when you can't get through the text. In most cases, however, the things I pick on clearly stand out from the rest of the text. The author uses words and phrases he himself doesn't fully understand. When these are removed or corrected, the text because noticeably better. There are also sometimes physically impossible or ridiculous scenes included in the text. From a few threads back: "Four stone-faced soldiers sat ON the table in a CIRCLE." How are you supposed not to correct that? That's such a funny line in a piece trying to be serious.

>what are you talking about, r*tard?
The only reason someone might act a pissy pant regarding my post is if it, or some previous post of mine, concerns them.

[Anonymous No.21308954]

>>21308880
>>21308878
why?
>>21306513
why no dialogue?

[Anonymous No.21309039]

The adventures of Quintus continue

[Anonymous No.21309132]

>>21306630
No other major complaints save that bit?
>>21308954
Why do you think it needs dialogue, and where would you insert said dialogue in the text?

[Anonymous No.21309232]

>>21309039
It's very "passive". In your first sentence, just write, Quintis entered the stable holding a small torch. Ever since he was a boy, he worked shoveling horse shit without a complaint. What use was there? Fifty lashings a day wasn't worth the few miserable hours smelling feces from the dozens of equines that lived in its stalls. Yet, that's not what bothered The Fifth Child; it was the secret he had to keep silent. Just hours ago when the starlight first came, he saw a sight forbidden in the teachings and script. A proud dark stallion entered the willing daughter of Castle Farityth. Fornication or love hidden from the gaze of those disapproving of such relationships. But Quintis' own emotions weren't hatred or disgust, but jealousy. He wanted to stroke the hardened beasts with his own hands and be it's first. His eyes welled deep rooted anger knowing the mare he so tenderly cared for would cast away their bond for the gentle touches given by Lord Farityth's daughter.

[Anonymous No.21309338]

>>21308816
This reads like English is your second language. I can't even figure out what you're describing in the first paragraph. You might have to read more and teach yourself how to convey a thought or image in words.

[Anonymous No.21309414]

>>21306513
Nicely written. Your writing has a natural flow to it. It does, however, share many cliches with >>21305120 . Some sentences stand out, in a bad way.
>At first I believed it to be his fist he was beating me about the back with, however, the blood gushing forth betrayed my expectations.

This, and the following sections of the text when the narrator gets attacked, lack dynamism. There is not much difference between how the text started and getting beaten up. The highlighted sentence should be precisely the point at which shit gets intense, but you spoil it by saying something incredibly boring: "the blood gushing forth betrayed my expectations." It seems too cold of a response, even for a nihilistic incel; and it's not the right kind of cold, the cool kind of Chad, either. The idea of a struggling, squirming little incel is further made evident by him "flashing his steel about chest, legs, arms, etc." A sense of speed and power could've been conveyed, instead, by saying: "I turned over and flashed my steel blade..." Of course, "flashing" here still would typically mean to give someone a brief glimpse of your weapon, so this should be changed to "slash" or something like that. If you wanted to keep "flash", you'd have to increase the intensity quite a bit to match that of anime ninjas with their katanas. The most intense sections of the whole piece are boiled down to
>He responded in kind, and I again with him...

[Anonymous No.21309623]

How do I write with ADHD?

[Anonymous No.21309644]

>>21305010
I'm trying to write some shit fantasy lore in English to challenge myself since its not my native language. I'd like to go for a dark fantasy style where a piece of land the size of New York is floating like an island in nothingness. No one knows how or why but that's how it is (everything would be done from the inhabitants' point of view)

This setting should be depressing, people struggling to gather resources in this world, survive against unnatural phenomenons and so on.

Any good books to read or general recommendations for this ? Even short stories.

To give a quick example, Mordheim from the warhammer franchise is a strong starting point for the overall atmosphere I'm trying to create.

[Anonymous No.21309692]

>>21309623
pills. i write 2-5 hours every day. never skip a day.

[Anonymous No.21309706]

>>21306462
>Successful novelists
Like William Gibson who wrote a masturbatory fantasy about a hot girl who kicks ass and fucks the MC within around 30 pages of meeting him?

[Anonymous No.21309707]

>>21308872
Anon, I gave you a critique when you posted an excerpt a few days back. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough, but the punctuation of some of your dialogue tags need revision. Also, now that you have a second POV with Vivi, you should insert a line break when switching between them. The BJ was hot, but the sex felt rushed and anticlimactic by comparison.

Check out this article, particularly the punctuating dialogue section
https://www.rabbitwitharedpen.com/blog/writing-dialogue-tags-action-beats-punctuation

[Anonymous No.21309792]

[Anonymous No.21309801]

>>21309623
I don't have ADHD so I'm curious as to what happens when you try.

>>21309644
I always fall into the trap of giving myself loads of required reading before I start writing something new. Instead, I'm trying to get a first draft written before I read those same materials. It means that the writing is more uniquely my own and it feels more like self-development, before I refine using the ideas in other media.

[Anonymous No.21309813]

>>21309801
That's actually a pretty good idea. I remember hearing another author say that they always do research after writing the book, because at that point they know exactly what they need to look for.

I've found however that the research can help with ideation as well, help you come up with scenes and characters.

[Anonymous No.21309819]

>>21309792
Holy incomplete sentences Batman

[Anonymous No.21309830]

>>21309819
it makes up for it for having over-complete sentences

[Anonymous No.21309889]

Yeah, that's w\hat I thought, punk. Keep walkin'. Yeah, keep walkin'. That's what I thought.

[Anonymous No.21309899]

>>21309813
>they always do research after writing the book, because at that point they know exactly what they need to look for.
This is such a good way to put it. It also takes the pressure off, you don't need to get everything perfect right away. No doubt some research is good, but it's hard to control how much.

[Anonymous No.21309908]

>>21309899
Yeahhh, keep walkin'

[Anonymous No.21309919]

I've found that it's easier to write some of a story after I've written something in my journal. There's less pressure to write well in my journal, and less pressure to write something interesting, but it gets me spun up. I feel like I'm journaling more because I know that it will help me write more of my story. It's a pretty powerful feedback loop. It feels good to enjoy writing.

[Anonymous No.21309927]

>>21309919
It's important to note, that the whole world is your journal. Until you've spray-painted, you're not a real artist.

[Anonymous No.21309963]

>>21309919
This is relatable. I have cultivated an intense journaling habit over the past three years. Sometimes I write over 10,000 words a day in it. The average is about 2000. But I always struggled with fiction.

One day I asked myself: why is it so easy to write in my journal and nowhere else?

My solution was to write everything in my journal. It worked. I used a notetaking app, and I do compartmentalise things with tags, so I have a notebook tag where my fiction goes, and a journal tag, and a lists tag etc. writing in my journal was a fucking excellent step for me though.

I do not write after journaling though. I find that I have about 90 minutes after waking where I am at my hottest, and then there is a fading energy and that phase ends. I spend the next hour or two trying to return to that state of mind/flow. I prefer to spend that time on fiction, though if I end up journaling I accept that it must have been needed, and so it is what it is. In order to take the pressure off writing I simply freewrite every day for hours while practising 'presence' as I do so. In this state I love writing every word.

[Anonymous No.21309976]

>>21309623
Unplug your router several hours a day (you can buy a power outlet timer) and remove as much processed food from your diet as is workable. You'll feel the benefits of the former quickly and the latter in 3-6 months. Worked wonders for me.

Imho ADHD is largely just a normal brain reaction to hyperstimulation

[Anonymous No.21310010]

>>21309927
I'm not sure I completely understand. Are you saying that there's no difference between writing in my journal and anywhere else, and that the difficulties I find in writing outside of it are self imposed? Because I agree with that.

[Anonymous No.21310022]

MY THEORY ON WOMEN:

Roger Sterling is the ultimate woman. "What do women want?", the question is posed, as an episode of Mad Men.
"Who cares", he shrieks.
Roe V. Wade is Defeated. Silently, at all stand.
"What do women want," a Man asks his best friend this question.
"Who cares", his only response.
A performance. To a crowd, of no one.

https://youtu.be/Ij8F3Uh1HNY

https://youtu.be/Qby9RKQ1Zfw

("For Dove, an Angel of a girl, in a world or Demons. NO MATTER WHAT, I'll always love you.)

What, indeed, do women want?

[Anonymous No.21310064]

"Oh, all the girls played mental games,
And all the guys were dressed the same."

"In a place beyond all ideas of right and wrong, there is a field. I will soon be meeting you there." - Rumi" -Julian Casablancas

[Anonymous No.21310169]

"How much have I digested everything that I know and am, so when I write a sentence it comes out silent? What I mean by silent is that it communicates directly to your heart and mind, and there aren't any squeaky words that don't fit, words that are afraid. For instance, in a good vegetable soup the onion is not constantly sticking up its head for extra attention and yelling, "I'm the onion! I'm the onion!" Instead, it is contributing with the other vegetables to the good flavor of the soup. When I write about the death of my mother, that death shouldn't bolt upright like a rodeo horse and run out of the sentence. Instead, I should fully digest my mother's death and lay it silently on the page. A writer can do this with equanimity and clarity because the writer's bones, heart, and muscles have eaten it and she is willing to face her fear. So finally a writer must be willing to sit at the bottom of the pit, commit herself to stay there, and let all the wild animals approach, even call them up, then face them, write them down, and not run away."

--Wild Mind

Just found this as I read past notes. Wonderful advice. Make sure you chew your trauma thoroughly. It will hurt more than anything you've ever known and it will be the greatest time of your life.

[Anonymous No.21310200]

>>21310169
Literally meaningless advice. What are we supposed to gleam from this?

[Anonymous No.21310201]

>>21309963
Might I suggest reading Morning Pages by Julia Cameron. I think it has an apt explanation for this phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.21310231]

>>21309039
Good to see you again anon. Instead of listing everything here, see pic rel for my thoughts. Do keep in mind that these are just my personal thoughts on the writing itself, and feel free to use them as you see fit.
Overall, I think think this one is miles ahead better than the last, having improved on your word play, mechanics, and the general feel of the text. I look forward to seeing more.

[Anonymous No.21310266]

>>21310200
>gleam
glean

[Anonymous No.21310274]

>>21310200
That writing from a place of fear will shake your writing. Only once you have digested your fear can you write about it with the proper mindset, which is a sort of loving curiosity and patience and trust, as opposed to things written in the seat of fear, which tend to be frenzied, disjointed, uneven, with events never rounded because the writer is too caught up in them to see them for what they are.
This would not just apply to fear, of course, but for any feeling or idea you are caught in and can't write about judiciously. Fear just happens to be especially good for a person to face, as it has a lot of wisdom behind it when you look.
>>21310201
I've read that. I don't remember much honestly. I have a similar practice to what she advocates though, I believe. Wild Mind is similar.

[Anonymous No.21310284]

>>21310274
That doesnt change anything i said though. how is this not meaningless advice?

[Anonymous No.21310298]

>>21310022
Women want a guy that's handsome, rich, and/or in charge.
More details in picrel.

[Anonymous No.21310317]

>>21308274
They're different forms. They literally have different concepts, you are a midwit. Poetry involves meter and rhythm and doesn't follow the rules of normal grammar structure. Even if you don't assign words to the two concepts, they are still different things.

[Anonymous No.21310319]

>>21309132
>No other major complaints save that bit?
I stopped reading after that sentence so no.

[Anonymous No.21310323]

>>21310169
The tl;dr is have cohesion and don't write scared

[Anonymous No.21310337]

>>21310231
Thanks this is good practice as well. Glad you like it. Did the latin terminology make sense? Making an accurate world is difficult

[Anonymous No.21310544]

>>21310337
For the most part, yes. But I want to know what exact worldbuilding you are going for: are you going strictly Latin/Roman, or are you taking influence? You can do both, but you should commit to one or the other. As an example, Ulbricht is not a Latin name, it is a German one. If you want to keep this name (and other similar elements) and the Latin influence, maybe doing something like this:
The Roman Empire was at it's height when the other species made itself a threat to it and all of humanity. The Romans went on to unite all of the humans in Europe, Africa, and Asia, retooling the growing Catholic Church into a religion centered around fighting this other species in the name of God to keep everyone united and obedient.
Just something I came up with off the top of my head, but you could really use something like that to help keep your world diverse and interesting.

[Anonymous No.21310598]

>>21310544
Yeah I was going for the idea that the religion latinized other civilizations, although the area their in is southern Russia not Germany. I'm calling their province Orenia after Orenburg Oblast. I had the idea that they were a little south of the Guberlin Mountains. Maybe I'll make their name slavic, or I could give the Ulbrichts some interesting history. Just thought it was a cool name (Ross is not forgotten)

[Anonymous No.21310677]

>write
>Get really thirsty
What gives?

[Anonymous No.21310693]

>write
>get my dick out and masturbate to porn for 12 hours
What gives?

[Anonymous No.21310992]

>write
>get headache
Can I/should I take a break when this happens?

[Anonymous No.21311036]

How do I write like David Lynch? The guy is pure dreamland improvisation and it works

[Anonymous No.21311089]

>>21311036
Make a movie if you want to "write" like Lynch. And just study Lynch, his influences, and film theory. Then leave /lit/ and go to /film/ on /tv/.

[Anonymous No.21311111]

>>21311089
I've been trying to study him I'm just not sure.
I was checking the scripts for Twin Peaks but some good stuff was simply made on the fly, it's insane. Inland Empire? Improvised.

I was looking to write a screenplay really

[Anonymous No.21311201]

>>21311111
>QUINTS
and he was probably born that way sorry dude

[Anonymous No.21311209]

>>21311111
the quints confirm it
your screenplay will be a hit in hollywood

[Anonymous No.21311447]

How do I get over my fear of random instagrammers and twitter messaging me for random interviews of my book? I always feel like it's going to be a scam. They want to "promote it on their page", but I also think they want me to pay them $1000 or something.

[Anonymous No.21311505]

>>21311447
preempt them and ask them to pay you $1000 for the privilege of associating your book with their "fanbase"

[Anonymous No.21311580]

You ever read Watership Down?

The premise seems childish on the surface- talking rabbits. Your first impression is Beatrix Potter and Peter Cottontail. But it's actually pretty mature, fully realized, and excepting the anthropomorphization, pretty well founded in real life zoology. Enjoyable by people of all ages.

Every had an idea to write a book similar to that? I have. And yet still the stigma of talking animals makes me reluctant to write.

[Anonymous No.21311616]

>>21305214
You've got plenty of terms to use instead of black. Umbral for example.

[Anonymous No.21311624]

>>21307203
>Not writing in 2nd person as a CYOA story

[Anonymous No.21311626]

>be me
>have writer's block for literal months
>stop writing every new story I write after I get about 500 words in
>fuck it
>start writing smut
>instantly write 2000 word story in 3 hours
>suddenly get an idea for a new non-erotic story
>write 1000 words in an hour
>tons of ideas for how to progress the narrative

Porn just cured my writer's block, why didn't anyone tell me this was possible

[Anonymous No.21311637]

>>21311580
> Watership Down
Are you 12? I bet you haven't even seen the animated movie. That shit has been traumatising children for generations.

[Anonymous No.21311748]

[Anonymous No.21311825]

>>21311637
The animated movie was garbage in comparison. You've never read it.

[Anonymous No.21311839]

How to make concise, almost clinical prose be interesting?

[Anonymous No.21311854]

Is fourteen and seventeen too weird of a gap for a romantic relationship?

[Anonymous No.21311881]

It's important and plot related but I can't pick something as basic as the MC's nationality

[Anonymous No.21311942]

>>21309830
Sentences should not. Be three words. At a time.

[Anonymous No.21311945]

>>21311854
Romeo and Juliet? Nah, it's fine. Prudes will bitch, but fuck'em.

[Anonymous No.21311983]

>>21311854
Romeo and Juliet.

[Anonymous No.21311996]

>>21311881
I think generally, characters should be the same nationality as where they live (assuming that's applicable) or it shouldn't be mentioned. If their nationality isn't going matter at all, then I don't think you should worry about it. Can you elaborate on the exact context?
>>21311945
>>21311983
Sure, but I intend to write a story in a modern (or a setting akin to modern times.) so perhaps it may still be off.

[Anonymous No.21312083]

>>21311996
It’s legal, but would probably still be considered weird.

[Anonymous No.21312086]

>>21311854
>>21311996
No. Tards might screech, like the other anon said, but who cares about them.

[Anonymous No.21312254]

>>21311626
it's not necessarily the topic that has freed you up, but perhaps more likely your attitude towards it. If you care less about erotica and smut, as many people do, and see it as a lesser thing, your approach will immediately be more relaxed and your natural flow will emerge without the blocks you might have raised for your other ideas about which you might secretly say to yourself "This is too much for me. I can't write anything as good as what I really want to write. This idea is too personal, too complex, and I am going to ruin it if I try it."

It's a common problem. If you can look at the feeling you have when you write erotica without caring so much as to strangle yourself, then you can take that feeling into your other writing. You can also take that feeling into the rest of your life. The process of writing is very much like learning to live well.

[Anonymous No.21312462]

how do i get the best of the best result in academic essay?

[Anonymous No.21312468]

>>21312462
Write the best essay.

[Anonymous No.21312512]

>>21312468
idk how, please teach me my digga
how can i improve my essay writing, especially for academic essay

[Anonymous No.21312589]

>>21311854
Hey, Joe Biden straight out said 12 and 30 was OK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1h3Ws3f1xs

[Anonymous No.21312667]

>hey, uh, haha check out this POLITICS !!!! haha .. URK uh .. haha .. can you guys guess my uh POLITICAL AFFILIATION .. (urk) haha !! isn't my POLITICAL AFFILIATION always relevant to everything ???? urk sniffle haha

[Anonymous No.21312697]

>>21312667
It's a joke reddit.

[Anonymous No.21312705]

>It's a joke reddit.

[Anonymous No.21312716]

>>21311854
Realistically? No. There were several fourteen-year-old freshman girls dating seventeen/eighteen-year-old senior boys when I was in high school. You might hear a few people bitching about it on twitter if you get popular enough, though.

[Anonymous No.21312969]

>>21311624
I'm addicted to second person. What do (You) do for me?

[Anonymous No.21313064]

>>21312512
Show you actually know what you're talking about. The easiest way to do this is to disagree. Believe it or not, but you can earn your professor's approval without parroting standard leftist talking points.

[Anonymous No.21313251]

"Come youth, I've already spent a lot of time among people decades older."
Is that sentence correct?

I am reasonably sure I've seen a "come [time]" phrasing before, but it's pretty unusual.

[Anonymous No.21313269]

>>21313251
I don't think your usage is correct.

'Come X' means 'when X comes'. It's referencing a future event. As in, 'Come autumn, the mushrooms will be rampant'.

It also has a bit of an archaic and colloquial vibe for me -- but that might just be me.

[Anonymous No.21313369]

>>21313064
yeah when i try to show that i know what im writing, i always have to built a foundation in beginning of each paragraph, usually taking 2 or 3 sentences, where as the example of high quality essay i saw was able to connect the point they give with the question in the first 2 sentences
is this a skill issue
also most question ask for an opinion, choices essay of agree or disagree are very rare

[Anonymous No.21313766]

How do you stop being horny for your characters? I'm not even writing erotica.

[Anonymous No.21313786]

>>21313766
Be horny for them and the words will flow.

[Anonymous No.21313858]

How would you describe an expression like this in prose?

[Anonymous No.21313900]

>>21313858
>His face contorted in a mixture of pain and anguish as if he were recieving fellatio from his dad

[Anonymous No.21314106]

>>21311748
Your first sentence has zero leadway to the second sentence. What the hell does social status have to do with love of dandelions?

[Anonymous No.21314151]

Do protagonists in slice-of-life stories still need motivations and arcs? I have no idea what to give them that would fit this genre.

[Anonymous No.21314240]

>>21305010
Hey I'm a big 40k fan and a military vet, thought i'd try my hand at some warhammer write candyassery.
Dunno how it reads to you guys

https://pastebin.com/g8FvLrTH

[Anonymous No.21314241]

>>21305010
I gather from these threads most of the “writers” here are not storytellers. Fiction is story. You tell stories. Story story story. Masturbaring about innocuous methodology is all irrelevant to the plain and abject purity of simplicity in storytelling. As in, have a story. One whole story. THEN you tell it. It can grow and change while you’re writing it, sure, but you don’t write word one without a motherfucking story. That is the single and best advice any of you, with all your questions of neurosis, can actually learn from.

[Anonymous No.21314260]

>>21314151
It's a slice of life. Do you have some grand overarching narrative arc that follows you every day of your life?

[Anonymous No.21314262]

if I advertised my book on here and sold it for five dollars but I had a free weekend would you guys read and review it? just asking

[Anonymous No.21314278]

>>21311748
honestly this just sounds off from the very first sentence. Like you're trying to write like it's the 19th century but failing.

Then again I have this sample here and it might be considered off from the first sentence too...

It's narrated by an 11 year old boy

https://pastebin.com/YHSU76vU

[Anonymous No.21314285]

>>21314240
did you delete it already?

[Anonymous No.21314287]

>just about finished my draft
>beta readers happy about the character interactions, the magic of the world, etc
>at the end of the day it was just a story about a magically inept boy who had to hire a stronger, older lady knight to aid him on his quest

What magical realms do you bring your readers to, /wg/?

[Anonymous No.21314300]

>>21314241
You written anything yourself?

I don't know, there is something to be said for plotting vs pantsting... and short stories I think don't require plotting.

[Anonymous No.21314329]

>>21314151
If you're writing imaginatively and attentively, in an improv sort of way, then the characters actions and words should suggest psychological undercurrents that can act as jumping off points. So, don't pre-plan a psychological script for them, just follow the emotional turns that naturally arise in the story. That's how my process (ideally) works. When it doesn't work like that, it's because I've got some precise plot worked out that the characters have to conform to, so I don't have room to explore their responses or drives.

[Anonymous No.21314330]

>>21314300
Yes I’m published.

It

Is

Story

Telling

You are telling stories

Leave the navel gazing for non-fiction

You write a sentence, anytime anywhere in a text or post it note or on a whiteboard, with the intention of meaning in that one sentence. If you are cold, you would write, “I am cold.”, because you mean to communicate, that you are cold, which is why you wrote the sentence. If you didn’t have a meaning, and you started a sentence, and it went “I am…”, and it meandered, and rambled, and prattled on, “I am… Something. Here. There. Wherever. I am everywhere and nowhere.”

That’s what you fucks, littered throughout this thread, are doing. You’re just, writing sentences, with no meaning, or intention. No story to tell. So it meanders and you ramble and get lost in your own neurosis. You end up so lost, you end up posting on /lit/ and navel gaze about form and function when YOU SHOULD TELLING A STORY THAT YOU WANT TO TELL

[Anonymous No.21314341]

>>21314287
There better be SS

[Anonymous No.21314356]

>>21309232
What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.21314466]

>>21305010
Do you prefer the lofty Biblical tone of the Silmarillion or some other form of worldbuilding/document of history?

[Anonymous No.21314731]

>>21314466
Doesn't matter because nobody reads world building documents unless they're attached to an all-time bestseller.

I'd suggest going with bullet points, diminishing returns kicks in hard after 1k total words or so

[Anonymous No.21314775]

I got my daily writing done, lads! :)
Should be a better week this time around. It'll be difficult, but, I think I can beat the problems that plague me IRL which get in the way otherwise.

[Anonymous No.21314858]

>MC turns into a self-aware egomaniac as the novel progresses and ends up being right about everything
Can that work? Too unlikable/unrelatable for normies?

[Anonymous No.21314905]

>>21314858
anything and everything can work. the bigger question is if YOU can pull it off.

[Anonymous No.21314945]

>>21314858
It's not only unlikable, it's a common trope and will come off as author self-insert at worst. Unless it's hammed up a lot with conflict e.g. nobody believes the MC and everyone dies as a result, or the MC makes some kind of sacrifice in the process of proving that they are right about something important. Hyper-competent characters are fun but they have to be like that from the beginning, otherwise the readers will relate to the character at the start then get alienated later.

[Anonymous No.21314999]

>>21313766
Have your friend draw explicit porn of your favorite girl in many compromising positions. Even better if said friend is also a girl.

[Anonymous No.21315025]

I read a bit (everyday for about an hour at least) and yet when I sit to write just for catharsis I cannot vomit anything because I cannot distinguish or pull anything for all the shit inside me. Is this a self reflection problem? Also I would prefer to write physically pen and paper but my penmanship is atrocious and I hate typing because it feels clinical and distant

When do you guys write, with what and what environment? Also how to find out what it is I’m feeling

[Anonymous No.21315053]

>>21308401
Thanks for this sage advice :*
Editing while writing or thinking is my problem

[Anonymous No.21315062]

>>21315025
Do you keep a journal? If not then start one. Journaling the Self by Kathleen Adams is an excellent book on how to use a journal to really crack yourself open and be creative with it. You can just google a summary if you want for a quick overview.
If you weren't self-reflective you wouldn't be here asking those questions would you? So maybe you are just a little tight, or hesitant, or scared. Or maybe you just lack the habit. Maybe you care too much and need to let go. You really only discover what you think when you start writing. One word after another. Ask a question and answer it as fast as you can.

I like to dialogue with various things in my journal. This is a technique in the book I mentioned. Try this: pull up a document or get a pen and paper and being a dialogue with the writer inside you, or your potential, or mental block etc. Treat them as a living entity and be respectful, even if you feel stupid, because you need to train yourself to take this shit seriously e.g.

Hi. Can I speak with the entity that is preventing me from writing please?
Yeah that's me what's up?
Well, I'm just curious why you are blocking me? I want to write but nothing is happening, is there something wrong?
I just feel like you need protecting.
From what?
Failure. You seem to be so scared of failure that I just thought I'd stop you before you failed. To help.
That's very kind but I feel like a failure for not being able to write now too.
Oh.
I appreciate you helping me out, but will you just let me write? I want to try this.
Okay. I'll let go. I just wanted to help.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for speaking with me.

etc. make sure you thank them once you finish, don't be rude.

and type/write fast, don't pause to think, just write. When you write your writing is your thinking.

[Anonymous No.21315068]

Here's something I wrote up a while ago.

[Anonymous No.21315111]

>>21315062
Thanks for this! I will look into her book.


I realized I keep things inside out of fear of not knowing what I might leave behind/produce and or coming to disagree with what I once believed. I fear misinterpretation or my thoughts being misconstrued and I don’t even know how interpret my own static.

[Anonymous No.21315147]

>>21315025
>When do you guys write,
After work, dinner and a bath (usually a jerk off session too)
>with what
My laptop
>and what environment?
Lying down in my bed

[Anonymous No.21315163]

How and when do you guys visualize scenes to write into your books? I usually visualize stuff when trying to sleep or when I’m listening to music.

[Anonymous No.21315278]

>>21315111
Yeah I liked the book. Journaling is a wonderful thing. I wish I had always done it.

I use Standard Notes as my journal. I like it because I can use tags to organise it. I have tags for Journal: YEAR, Lists, Dreams, Ideas, Notepad, Reading Notes, Dialogues, Unsent Letters, Special Entries etc. I like this app because I can use it on laptop and my phone for free, so it is always nearby. I journal throughout the day whenever I get a hot thought or some spare time to reflect. Journaling is a constant thing for me.
When I write fiction I prefer to do it in the morning and finish by noon or just after. My mind is better in the morning, and the closer to sleeping the better, I think. I sit on a chair with my feet up. When the first phase of writing fades out I walk about, make coffee, and then sit somewhere different for a bit, or lie down, then return. Sometimes I close my eyes and type for a while and I like that too. It's not very often I actually even look at the screen really. And yes, I type. I type faster than writing by hand. It's true about the hand/mind connection, and the feeling perhaps being important. But I really want that speed of typing. I also use voice dictation sometimes.

>>21315163
Active imagination. I close my eyes. I relax my body. Sometimes I do a hypnotic induction on myself (which is really easy, look it up. Write your own too. Make your own world. My staircase is sunken in the sea at the beach I used to live near). Mostly I just close my eyes and wait and be aware. I'll see a flash of something and then I have to jump on it and it takes shape. I do not force anything; I wait. But when the slightest thing appears I jump at it with intense curiosity and a sharp awareness and a patience for it to move in its own time. Sometimes you have to just be with a person for a while, but eventually they will do something.
Mostly though I'd rather just write and I'll see it as it's written. Imagining things in a sort of trance is a wonderful experience and certainly creates interesting scenarios and characters, but what I find is that while it lives red-hot in my head, when I try to write it down the language is dead for me.
I would still recommend active imagination. Whatever happens in those states will seep into your writing. It is worth doing it with a keyboard or paper in front of you to try and transcribe the vision as it occurs though. Just to see.

[Anonymous No.21315338]

>>21315111
>I fear misinterpretation or my thoughts being misconstrued
This is a rational fear. A book is only what people interpret it as. Nobody can read your mind, and if the author has to double down and explain what they meant, the book failed at its one job. You need the skill to make sure you actually communicate what you are trying to communicate.
>I keep things inside out of fear of not knowing what I might leave behind/produce and or coming to disagree with what I once believed
This is an irrational fear. We are constantly changing, you will be frequently growing and altering/dropping major views and perspectives then you will die. Accept the impermanence of everything and write in the present. If we waited for ourselves to be totally solid in all of our beliefs, nobody would have ever written anything and books just wouldn't exist.

[Anonymous No.21315416]

>>21314278
>https://pastebin.com/YHSU76vU
one of my friends blocked me because of this story

[Anonymous No.21315516]

>>21315278
When you close your eyes though how are you perceiving/imagining things in your minds eye? Is it by inventing from past sensations and memories sort of like putting a Mr. Potato together? For me it is blank and dark right in my mind

>>21315338
Thanks for putting things in perspective. I remember Tolstoy would frequently “quit” writing or distance himself from his latest work not trying to compare myself to him.

[Anonymous No.21315580]

How would you feel if at some point in the middle of a multi-book, or multi-act, story there was a significant climax to a secondary plot, just under the grand plot, that then led to a fifteen year time skip? It would return to following the same MC it had before, in basically the same setting as before with the same grand plot, only the MC had essentially done nothing to progress the main story for those fifteen years. Of course the MC will have changed some, so it would be like coming to know a different version of them.

[Anonymous No.21315662]

>>21315516

I do not know how to tell you what it is like to imagine things. You already know, I am sure. What colour is blue? How does a blue flag move in a brisk wind? What's the sound of it? How does hot sand feel when you sink your feet into it? Where are you stood when your feet are in the hot sand and you are looking up at a blue flag in a brisk wind? You used your imagination to understand these questions.
Maybe you need to be more aware of your own perceptions. Look up some videos on presence by Eckhart Tolle and practice just being aware. Try to hold as many bodily perceptions at once as you can. Start with one body part or sensation, then move to another, then hold both at the same time. Both hands, the fingers, the hair on your cheeks, the temperature of your ears, the clothes against your skin etc. later you can do the same thing with thoughts and so on as you expand your awareness.

Do this: focus on your left hand. Let it completely relax, as though limp, as though it is butter on a hot day and melting, as though you have rubber bones and you can hear it yawning and slinking into itself. Feel it relax. Stay with this feeling for a short while. Now focus on your right hand. Make your right hand a fist and squeeze as hard as you can. A rock. Squeeze hard. Notice how it feels. Now you need to step your awareness back one step more so you can focus on your left hand when it is relaxed and your right hand when it is a fist without giving preference to either one. Focus on both equally. Eventually you can do this with your whole body and your mind at the same time. You'll know when you have it. Your life will take on an intensely curious awareness in this state.

Also right now just look straight ahead in your room. Notice how you see. Notice how your nose appears, slightly blurred, any shadowing you might have in your vision, the light in your room, the objects, the smell of temperature there. Now close your eyes and see it again. Imagine yourself standing from your chair or bed just as you have done a million times before. Look at it from within your usual perspective, and also from the third person. Let your awareness jump around.

[Anonymous No.21315680]

just sold my first short story for audio narration

feels super good

[Anonymous No.21315798]

>>21315680
Congratulations anon!

[Anonymous No.21315813]

>>21315680

[Anonymous No.21315905]

THE COMING BITS OF CHRIST WE MAY STOP TO WONDER AT THE WINDOW LAZY LAZY VAIN, THE COLLECTED ROMANCES, THE BEDRIDDEN EPISTLES, AS FAR AS WE'VE GOTTEN AS IT IS, IF ONLY TO BE THE WAY I HATE TO SAY IT

[Anonymous No.21315941]

>>21315580
Can't say I've ever seen a timeskip that big where nothing has actually happened in the interim. Why does it happen and are there significant changes in the world around the protagonist during this time?

[Anonymous No.21315983]

>>21314241
>are not storytellers. Fiction is story. You tell stories. Story story story.
Define 'story'

[Anonymous No.21315994]

>>21315580
So, "The Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson?

[Anonymous No.21316001]

>>21315680
Congrats!
How did you sell it?
I've given permission for my stories to get narrated several times, but I never asked for payment.

[Anonymous No.21316007]

>>21315983
>Define 'story'
Goal, conflict, disaster.
See "Techniques Of The Selling Writer" by Dwight V. Swain.

[Anonymous No.21316039]

>>21315662
>I do not know how to tell you what it is like to imagine things. You already know, I am sure.
I don't have an imagination.

[Anonymous No.21316079]

>>21316039
t. 5

[Anonymous No.21316107]

>>21315941
I'll try to be concise.
The first half of the story follows the MC interacting with various, insignificant characters in the world on a journey of inward self discovery that undercuts their primary, overarching journey (the main plot). The MC is unalike those they interacted with. So during this journey they had significant yet predominantly negative effects on their surroundings and the people. As well, their inward journey of self discovery ends in a cataclysm that causes them to abandon their primary journey, and in a sense 'die' as they accept what they are. So that the time skip now 'revives' them (a main theme is cycle), or returns them to the main plot while they now embark on an external journey of self discovery full of old characters that have changed based on their old interactions. A few of the characters have actually become significant in the world due to the impact of the MC though negative motivators. But they mostly hate the MC, which is partly why the skip is so long. It needs to be so the characters can grow, and it is because no one tried to get the MC 'back on track.'

Sorry if that was a bit long.

[Anonymous No.21316114]

Thoughts on subtle jokes in narration? Sometimes I like to use sardonic language occasionally to “mock” characters doing retarded things or subtle fourth-wall breaks by quietly acknowledging tropes in my stories. I try not to go too far to the point where it eclipses the narrative or the atmosphere, but I like to give the audience a little chuckle here and there.

[Anonymous No.21316130]

>>21316114
are you funny

[Anonymous No.21316134]

>>21316130
Ehhhhhhh…

[Anonymous No.21316144]

>>21316107
That sounds like a bad idea. Anyone expecting plot will stop reading in the first half. Anyone who wants introspection will be disappointed when it shifts to action.

It's better to have the journeys overlapping.

[Anonymous No.21316161]

holy FUCK I just had the best dream POSSIBLE
I could feel fucking EVERYTHING
EVERYTHING MADE SENSE
You bet my ass I DID write all that shit down so I can turn it into a book
HOLY FUCK

[Anonymous No.21316170]

>>21316161
You better not be stealing my Twlight x 2020 Election, where a cute girl has to choose between Billionaire Pussy Grabber Donald Trump or Corruptor of Souls Millionaire Joe Biden

[Anonymous No.21316178]

>>21316170
man FUCK THAT
That dream was PERFECT and will never be replicated
FUCK
IM GOING TO MAKE MILLIONS

[Anonymous No.21316210]

>>21316144
It's not etched in stone, so I don't need to commit to the idea. It arose some really good subplots to tie together under the grand plot, so I was having fun throwing around the idea(s). But you could be right, though it wouldn't be so black and white. There'd still be progress towards the main plot occurring along with MCs inner journey. And there'd still be introspection occuring as the main plot takes command along the external self discovery. But it would undoubtedly be a lot like going from a prequel to the current story, or like going from the current story to a sequel. It's an idea that's mostly great for the cycle theme and highlighting the characters inadvertently negative impacts on the world--and is not necessary.

[Anonymous No.21316218]

>>21316210
What happens to the MC's hairline?

[Anonymous No.21316228]

>>21316218
>implying they have hair

[Anonymous No.21316283]

Any books I should read to get the gist of writing really dark and depressing situations but in a way that makes them funny to read?
I'm not asking for guides but examples of books that pulled that off successfully.

[Anonymous No.21316301]

>>21316283
Lord of the Flies

[Anonymous No.21316306]

Let's say, hypothetically, for the sake of the argument that my core cast of characters reads like the beginning of a priest, a pastor and a rabbi walk into a bar joke.
Will Royal Road kick me out?

[Anonymous No.21316318]

>>21316301
idunno, man, I didn't find Lord of the Flies funny.
There were funny moments and moments where the kids made otherwise dark situations feel whimsical because they had no idea what was going on but it didn't read like a comedy or something.

[Anonymous No.21316335]

>>21316283
Can you give an example of what you're asking?

[Anonymous No.21316393]

>>21316228
God damn... Why?

[Anonymous No.21316395]

>>21316178
Spill it.
>>21309792
Work on formatting. Stop the huge blocks of text. Besides the crude usage of structure as noted before, it's an excellent start.

[Anonymous No.21316410]

>>21315983
A fictional sequence of events. More precisely, and inside baseball, is an imaginary cycle of rituals which provide a catharsis for an audience and their neurosis as their consciousness interacts with their subconscious. Which is literally the point of all fiction ever.

[Anonymous No.21316425]

>>21316395
>Spill it
it's literally just that wreck it ralph 2 movie but better

[Anonymous No.21316432]

Why don't people seem to like character based stories? Just a character going through life.

[Anonymous No.21316436]

>>21316335
Something like Catch 22, maybe. I'm definitely reading it again for this because it's been a decade since I last read it and I can barely remember any of it.

As for an example of what I'm doing, everything is a WIP, there's a chapter about a guy that was recently captured in battle and thrown into a gladiatorial arena trying to pitch himself as a great entertainer so he won't have to be killed; or this other arc about how a character who is known for being righteous has her spirit completely broken because of a misunderstanding with her superior who believed her to be ready for a job that involved torturing other people.

[Anonymous No.21316492]

>>21316436
>>21316283
Mother Night, Slaughterhouse-5, and VALIS come to mind. Kurt Vonnegut knew Heller personally and they were pretty good friends, but they had a pretty sardonic, dark sense of humour. VALIS is almost self deprecating in that PKD knew he was a schizophrenic meth head but really believed in all his Gnostic unveiling of the simulation.

[Anonymous No.21316541]

Has anyone tried to write their own fantasy story?

[Anonymous No.21316549]

>>21316393
I was messing with you anon, I didn't think you were genuinely looking for an answer

[Anonymous No.21316565]

>>21316541
Been working on one, non-dedicated, for about three years.

Why?

[Ishmael No.21316583]

Is it bad my chapters are short? :/

>>21316318
I did feel sorry for the fat fuck I don’t want to call him piggy cause that’s what they called him.
>>21316395
I like this a lot. Good flow and beautiful.

[Anonymous No.21316599]

>>21316583
Are they appropriately spaced by scene changes or dynamic shifts?

[Anonymous No.21316641]

>>21316283
>>21316283
the Good Soldier Svejk

[Ishmael No.21316658]

>>21316599
Yeah, the scenes are quite different, but perhaps I should make more of them into breaks instead of full other chapters, I’m unsure. I’m also writing in google docs so maybe that’s messing with me

[Anonymous No.21316748]

>>21316658
Hard for me to say. And even harder since spacing chapters is just something that comes naturally easy for me. What I can say is once you can get a feeling for pacing, the length of your chapters should come equally as naturally. Faster pacing typically begets shorter chapters, and of course longer chapters for slower pacing.
But once you get a feeling for pacing, you'll develop a natural sense for chapter breaks. Even if the breaks aren't during a scene change. If you feel your chapters are too short, or developing a pacing you don't like, then perhaps you need to adjust. But if you believe they are short due to the natural progression of the story--the pacing, then you simply have a fast paced or eventful or compact story.

It's a judgment call really only you can make. And you can only make it if you truly understand how you want to convey your story.

Hope that helps.

[Anonymous No.21316879]

>>21316492
>>21316641
Thanks, anons.

[Anonymous No.21316881]

Would it be offensive if, for genuinely no reasons that are based in reality, I have a race of frog-like I call them Anthrophibians whose architecture combines a natural marsh-complementary style blended with--the aspect I'm highlighting by asking this--a Japanese style?

I am not intending to make any kind of comparison. I just like the idea of a forest, marsh-style that compliments its natural surroundings. Which to me evokes a Japanese inspiration. But if there's a chance this could come off as comparative, I could deconstruct it a stage further. Just more work, but I'm okay with that if it's for the right reasons.

[Anonymous No.21316901]

>>21316541
No, no one ever has. Never.

[Anonymous No.21316922]

>>21316881
>Would it be offensive if
I know you're writing in sake of your readers, but when it comes to stuff like this, fuck what they think. If the idea sounds cool to you (which it does frankly) then go ahead with it.

[Anonymous No.21316944]

>>21316922
I agree. I'm just putting my soul into this, and I want it to feel right/comfortable to all who read it if it miraculously came to that.
I have three actually human architectural styles rooted in greek/roman, russian, and indian. But it just now clicked that having the non-human architectural style as japanese could be interpreted wrong. But, like usual, I'm probably just overthinking it. I guess I asked in hopes of preventing me from deleting something I believe is good/okay for no real reason other than doubt.

Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.21316962]

>>21316881
>Would it be offensive
The answer to this question in all cases depends entirely on the execution.
>The anthros sat in their little marsh huts, up to their necks in shit. They looked Japanese.
Everyone is insulted.
Or, you just describe the place without making direct comparisons and 99% of readers will just think, cool imagery, and won't realize there was any connection.

[Anonymous No.21317154]

>>21316881
>Anthrophibians
It's a garbage name. Unless you're going to go for the type of grungy work wherein the reader's assumption that you spent no more than two seconds on the name is justified as some type of stylistic decision, you should think up something better. Anthropomorphic + amphibian is one step away from "frog-men, the dudes".

[Anonymous No.21317179]

How do you approach research when it comes to worldbuilding?

[Anonymous No.21317180]

>space, time, infinity, memory, pointless dueling and the double
Give me a 7th theme to write for my collection of short stories

[Anonymous No.21317231]

>>21305508
>>21305530
For all anons in attendance: just reading and writing is not enough. Practice by itself does not make perfect, though perfect practice might.
What you should do, >>21305508, is practice in a way that targets your weaknesses, adquire feedback, and repeat. Feedback is the crucial step here, and it should be given by an expert who can orient your efforts. But how, you ask, do I find a writing expert who's willing to look at my writing? They don't grow on trees, you know.
Ben Franklin had the same problem. As a young man, he judged himself a passable writer, but what he wanted was to number among the best. He also didn't know any expert writers, but he didn't let that stop him. His method: whenever he found a bit of writing he liked (particularly articles), he would save it. He would then note down the gist of individual sentences, just an evocative word or two for guidance. When he'd mostly forgotten the article, he would go back to his notes and try and rewrite the article. Upon comparing his results with the original, he would get immediate feedback in a way that forced him to answer craft questions. Why did the author pick this word instead the one I went for? Why is his paragraph more cohesive than mine when they only differ in a couple of sentences. I didn't get the ending exactly right, how did that affect the overall piece? And so on.
If you think your dialogues are shitty, find someone who writes good dialogue and do the exercise. Target your weaknesses again and again and you will improve. Don't, and you will write blindly for eternity, striving towards no palpable goal, getting nowhere fast.

[Anonymous No.21317243]

>>21317231
>just reading and writing is not enough
Sure it is, if you have talent. Not necessarily talent for writing (although that helps), but the talent for getting good at things. Have you ever noticed how people who are really good at something are often really good at a lot of things? It's because getting good at something is itself a talent, and probably an unteachable one. Therefore, the advice to "read more, write more" is sufficient. Those with talent will improve with this method. Those without talent will not. Someone without talent will never get good anyway, so why bother tailoring advice to them? Return to exceptionalism, anon. They'll expect some of us in the wreckage.

[Anonymous No.21317250]

>>21317180
Order. But I think you are listing subjects not themes.
Also, I don't know how well a story about doubles would do out of 4chan

[Anonymous No.21317259]

>>21317250
That's not the kind of double I'm thinking of, mate. It's more of a doppelganger situation.

[Anonymous No.21317271]

>>21317231
Also, re: Ben Franklin. What great works of fiction did he author? The left-brain approach of dissection and reduction is how we got to where we presently are in literature. You don't need to think about any of that garbage. Thinking is a parasite to the highly intuitive process of creative writing. The greatest advances in every field occur at the hands of intuitionists. Fuck questions and fuck collations, aggregations, syntheses; eschew inhuman logic and rationale. Embrace your own fundamental humanity and focus on the words. If you have talent, you will improve. I'm so tired of this bog-standard r/writing """"advice"""" that gets parroted here. Just stop.

[Anonymous No.21317272]

>>21317243
You sound like you gargle men's cum.

[Anonymous No.21317276]

>>21317272
Go back! Go back!

[Anonymous No.21317277]

>>21317271
>fiction
Franklin was an extremely famous writer in his day. You're throwing a meltie because you didn't follow the conversation thread prior to your ignoble decision to embarrass yourself on the internet.

[Anonymous No.21317279]

>>21317276
Is that a yes?

[Anonymous No.21317280]

>>21317277
>Franklin was an extremely famous writer in his day.
Yeah? What works, prose or poem, of creative writing did he author?

[Anonymous No.21317283]

>>21317280
>creative writing
Again, you continue to embarrass yourself through your inability to read the short and few simple sentences that separate decent conversation from your tard rage. I feel sorry for your parents.

[Anonymous No.21317284]

>>21317280
Are you just pretending to misunderstand the conversation to save face or are you really just stupid?

[Anonymous No.21317287]

>>21317271
I agree with this. What is best is unknown to us. What is best is not done by us, but done by some strange process within us of which we really can do little more for than to make space for it to emerge.

That said, as per the writings of Poincare on insight, things slide into place when they are brought to our conscious attention and then forgotten and left to stew invisibly, only to return later when we are relaxed and going about our lives, when something happens to trigger us and remember our question, or problem, and we find it is solved almost magically right then, a whole answer presenting itself.

So it can be said there is a need for both tension and relaxing, for effort and for non-effort. So maybe doing what the anon suggested would be a fine exercise to do and then to forget, and in the forgetting have it really stamp itself upon us when we next allow the sleeping part to show itself.

At the same time, I do believe that when you practice being constantly aware in all you do you feed the unconscious that way, as then your whole life is deeply felt and taken to the gut for digesting. If you can read with a deep awareness maybe you send it down deep enough for it to take hold and let something like it rise up on its own time.

[Anonymous No.21317291]

>>21317283
>>21317284
You are the dumbest, most retarded cotton picking gorilla retard NIGGERS that ever lived. Your refusal to even consider the implications of the question I'm asking completely preclude me even getting to the point I'm actually making. Whatever works for Ben Franklin is not directly analogous to creative writing because he was not engaged in that field. It's like saying that because Rosa Parks used a bonnet to shuck corn and she was the best cotton picker in Mesopotamia, you should therefore Do The Ben Franklin Thing. It's acorns to pie crust. You are a NIGGER. A NIGGER is you.

[Anonymous No.21317293]

>>21317291
I see, so you were pretending to be le ebin troll. This must be very embarrassing for you.

[Anonymous No.21317295]

>>21317291
Nobody mentioned the words 'fiction' or 'creative writing' until you decided to throw your fit.

[Anonymous No.21317297]

>>21317295
In the post DIRECTLY REPLYING to the post I made? You know, this one >>21305530 that was directly quoted in >>21317231. Do you want to continue trying to convince me what I meant or can you go back to fucking r*ddit already?

[Anonymous No.21317309]

>>21317297
>cites two posts that do not use the words "fiction" or "creative writing"
I'm convinced you have a brain injury.

[Anonymous No.21317311]

>>21317309
I'll leave you to die on that hill by yourself, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.21317315]

I accept your concession of defeat.

[Anonymous No.21317401]

>>21307834
I disagree with hte other anons about the word usage. I like it, and it does not have to be literal and specific all the time. A shallow pond that is marched in can definitely be refered to as a sea
I do suggest using the word 'and' more, as I think the sentence upon sentence structure makes the reading a bit laggy or stuttering, for lack of a better word

[Anonymous No.21317415]

>>21308816
I understand what the other anon means about engilsh perhaps being your second language, but I can definitely understand the picture you're making
The first paragraph reads a bit difficult, I am imagining some sort of carcass of a mammoth like being turned into an effigy
also, don't say "very contorted", just say contorted

[Anonymous No.21317457]

Can I still say 'twas in Current Year, the year of our lord?

[Anonymous No.21317550]

>>21317243
Definitively countered by modern learning science. Read Peak by Anders Eriksson. Talent doesn't matter at all, and everything depends on the quality and quantity of the practice you put in.
I seriously hope you're not using the talent excuse for why your writing has stagnated.
>>21317271
Intuition takes decades to develop and is strongest among those who practice the most (and the best). The talent cope is the life vest of the dilettante, and will, over the course of an unproductive life, only sour into regret.

Furthermore, the notion that because Franklin didn't author fiction his methods as a writer don't deserve your scrutiny is either dismissive to the point of arrogance or willingly disengenious. If you don't believe that all good writing, from Ulysses to the raunchiest of fan fiction, and from the most poetical to the dry and historical, merits your attentive study, you will never progress.

[Anonymous No.21317554]

>>21317287
This is a fine middlepoint between intuitionism and analytics. Hope the other anon saw it in between fits.

[Anonymous No.21317633]

>>21317550
It merits your attention and enjoyment. Nothing merits "study." Read what you enjoy. Appreciate it. Do more of the reading and the appreciating, then write. It's my own fault for (as always) getting drawn away from my main point, but that point is that "study" is for academics and critics. Someone who wants to develop their talents as a writer would be much better off completely eschewing all "advice" that comes from the ultimately-unproven academic hangers-on to the field of literature. I like to pose this in pretty absolute terms: if there were any real merit to the doctrines and methodologies espoused anywhere people gather and talk about writing, then the world would be filled full to the brim with genius works of literature. The point is that there seems to be no causal connection between "doctrinal" (read: analytical approach) writing and excellence. There is no evidence that any of these dissective, reductive approaches work at all.

The only thing all great writers have in common is that they read a lot and wrote a lot. Hence the advice: "read more, write more." Read enough to develop good taste. Write enough to become practiced enough to enact that taste. There is literally no evidence that anything more is necessary. The special sauce will mix autonomously in your head if it's going to mix at all. All you can do is have confidence and diligence, to attend your own writing with care and deliberation, to be present in your reading. Anything that's layered on top of that is a superfluous, dissonant orchestration from overeducated superfans who have managed to convince the rest of us of their own gravitas. It's snake oil. Writing advice is snake oil. It works or it doesn't. You put the work in or you don't. There's no need to overcomplicate things, as gratifying as it feels.

[Anonymous No.21317650]

>>21317180
(free) will

[Anonymous No.21317652]

>>21317650

[Anonymous No.21317766]

Tear this apart, please. Do your worst.

[Anonymous No.21317768]

>>21317401
>A shallow pond that is marched in can definitely be refered to as a sea.
Yes, this can definitely work. And the restlessness of the sea is from their marching. This would be quite beautiful. But this isn't communicated clearly enough in the text. This isn't what the reader pictures, especially since the text starts with "soil", thus mixing together different portrayals of the scene, and the thought that that soil is the soil at the bottom of a shallow pond requires considerable creative mental stretching, at lest to me it does.

[Ishmael No.21317948]

>>21316748
Thank you anon it was

[Ishmael No.21318026]

>>21317766
I really liked this. One of the best I’ve read on this site.

[Anonymous No.21318113]

the style of whatever author I'm currently reading always leaks into my writing
does this ever stop? Or do I just need to go back and edit out all the subconscious breaks from the established style?

[Anonymous No.21318231]

>>21305238
absolutely not, and this is true for every skill.

to improve at a skill you have to stop making mistakes. to stop making mistakes you have to
1. identify them
2. correct them

sitting down and "just write"-ing is a great way to fill a word document with the same mistake repeated over and over and over again. whereas a person who writes a tenth that amount but reads it carefully and thinks closely about why it's not as good on the page as it seemed in his head and then goes out and explores solutions to that problem will progress much, much faster.

for example
>write scene
>read scene
>"this scene feels too fast"
>1. why does it feel too fast? 2. how can it be slowed down?
>compare and contrast with well-paced effective scenes in things that you liked reading
>realise that those scenes make their points with subtlety whereas your scene comes in with a breaching charge and smashes the reader on the head with a plot sledgehammer as your characters monologue to each other fearlessly and directly exactly how they feel and why.
>rewrite scene with subtlety
>reread scene
>it's exactly the same shit, barely an improvement, maybe even worse
>cry and give up
>come back the next day
>compare and contrast again
>realise that the way that the better scene from a different writer manages to BE SUBTLE is by making the scene ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. the scene has its very own mini plot and the scene is ABOUT that mini plot - the scene is about the characters having to do laundry together and this mundane task has its own conflict and rising tension, climax, and resolution. but while this is going on the scene is making its ACTUAL point, which is establishing that one of the characters doesn't actually hate the other character as much as that second character believes he does
>realise that this mini-plot for the scene isn't just some afterthought, this is literally the meat of your story. your story is just a string of these mini-plots and the "arc" or main plot doesn't exist, it's an emergent property of the actual story which is this sequence of scenes that flow into each other like how life is just one thing after enough and not planned out in an excel spreadsheet before you ever leave the womb
>plan out your scene again, this time focusing on the scene's mini-plot and giving it the attention it deserves rather than focusing on your "big picture" idea of how the scene slots into the "big picture" plot
>make your scene's mini-plot as consuming and engaging, funny, tragic, and downright standalone good as you can
>polish the mini-plot until you love it almost as much as your whole entire story
>rewrite the scene again
>read it
>it's still shit but at least it's not poorly paced anymore

this knowledge took me like 3 years to develop, and that's the other trick. don't try and reinvent the wheel. if you want to know how to write good then just ask good writers how they write.

disclosure: i am not a good writer.

[Anonymous No.21318238]

>>21317154
I would obviously not refer to them as Anthrophibians in the story. They are also not just humanoid frogs. They just have legs like a frog with similar skin

[Anonymous No.21318244]

>>21318113
It stops when you read more and write more to solidify your personal style. Then your brain will automatically block inferior influences.

[Anonymous No.21318282]

>>21318231
addendum: you should always ask at least two questions when you have a problem.
1. why does this problem exist
2. how can i fix it

you have to get 1 right before you even begin thinking about 2. when you have a problem forget about solving it, literally go to your kitchen and stick your brain in the microwave for as long as it takes for the tissue that stores those neurons to denature.

you must approach the problem as if it is a natural phenomena beyond all human influence and seek only to understand it. only when you have taken the problem into yourself so completely that you can finally realise that you are the problem will you be mentally equipped to solve it.

ultimately every problem in your writing is a mistake that you made, and so every improvement you make to how you write necessarily involves destroying that part of yourself. if your writing is poorly paced and too direct this mistake has not come about out of the ether. it explains something about who you are and how you see the world - because writing is reproducing the world, in a way, but you can only reproduce of it what you know of it. failing to write with subtlety is a common mistake - it's like symbol-drawing when you're sketching. look at pic related - it's a paint brush, right? but i've never once seen a paint brush in real life that looks like that. it's not a paint brush, it's a symbol of a paint brush. it's a hieroglyph - it's written language, not a drawing.

people think they know what an eye is so they draw "an eye", but they're actually just drawing a symbol of an eye - they're drawing a hieroglyph stored in their brain which represents an eye, rather than drawing what they see in the world itself. in the same fashion people think they know what a story is so they write a story - characters who want things and events that get in the way of them having those things. but that's not what a story is in its true form. a story is your grandfather sitting at the head of the fire telling his family about the red berries, and what happened to your grandmother when she ate them, and why you shouldn't repeat that mistake - or your father explaining why you have to hold your speak like this, not like that, by telling you of the time that he learned that lesson himself. it's a retelling of somebody's life - and so you must write a life as it is in the world. not just a hieroglyph that means "story". these stories don't have plots or themes per se - but that's where your role as an author comes in to string these disparate events together in a way that is more than the sum of its parts.

this is not to say your writing has to be realistic. an eye can go on a dog or a dragon, just as your character can own a dog or a dragon. but it still has to look like an eye, rather than a hieroglyph that reads as "eye".

i don't know what the mistakes are in your writing but see how a fulsome exploration of them can allow you to improve in leaps and bounds rather than bits and bobs

[Anonymous No.21318407]

After meticiolous planning and putting it off I finally stopped being a faggot and put pen to paper today. Wrote a solid amount for my being my first time, and I was quite happy with the result actually. Just wanted to blog for a bit, I'm gonna lurk in these threads now. Never give up hope anons

[Anonymous No.21318421]

>>21305508
>Lets say I just finished a story and it's bad. How do I use it to improve?
Examine it with an existing diagnostic methodology, like Save the Cat. Identify what elements it has and what elements it's missing.

[Anonymous No.21318427]

>>21307742
damn are you a native chinese or just a westoid techbro enjoying the ride? either way, love the minimag, please never stop, i shall submit soon enough

[Anonymous No.21318461]

>>21318026
Thanks fren, I am glad you enjoyed. It's the start of a long-form poem with a lot of ambition, with any luck I'll be able to pull it off.

[Anonymous No.21318474]

>>21317766
Pretty good anon.

[Anonymous No.21318480]

>>21305508

[Anonymous No.21318506]

>>21318480
This seems like weak outdated advice. Maybe 1/4 of the questions here are useful, and they aren't specific enough to touch upon the real problems that stem from bad plotting. Read a modernized rehash of "Techniques of the Selling Writer", or something like "Save the Cat Writes a Novel" or "Creating Character Arcs".

[Anonymous No.21318696]

>>21313858
"The kind of smile made by someone who has never performed one before."
Poor Agni.

[Anonymous No.21318830]

>>21313858
His brow furrowed in intense concentration. His lips parted to show teeth, there was a hint of a smile there, but it was not the smile of a man, rather like of a nervous chimpanzee.

[Anonymous No.21318866]

I am looking for feedback from /lit/ anons on my latest novel. I'm running a free giveaway on Kindle until Friday. I'd appreciate it if any anon would read my book and tell me what you think. I believe it's my greatest work, but what do I know? In the old days, it was easy for self-published authors to get reviews on Amazon, but I'm finding that no longer is the case. You can download my novel for free here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BC961KV5

[Anonymous No.21318930]

>>21318866
>anti vax self published desperate trash

it’s like a joke that wrote itself

[Anonymous No.21319148]

>>21318930
>current year
>still hasn't realized the vaux was a massive money laundering scheme to funnel tax dollars into the pockets of politicians who just happened to invest in big pharma
my dude... how slow on the take are you?

[Anonymous No.21319154]

>walk away from my book for a few months
>come back and reread it
>I like it a lot
feels good, but also I feel like I should dislike it

[Anonymous No.21319184]

>>21319148
>tries to start a vax fight on the /wg/
>while peddling his schizo trash
>trying to make money while accusing reality of doing the same

you’d unironically sell more units on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.21319199]

>>21319184
I'm not the anon who wrote the book. I haven't even read it and don't really want to read a book about the coof. I just wanted to tell you that you're a dumbass, because I'm an asshole, but I'm a right asshole :^)
>>tries to start a vax fight on the /wg/
Glass houses, my dude >>21318930

[Anonymous No.21319257]

>>21319199
dumbass is a pretty milquetoast insult. try again, because right assholes spew bile, and you squirt

[Anonymous No.21319266]

>>21319257

[Anonymous No.21319269]

>>21319266
>mid2000s reaction jpg

yawn

[Anonymous No.21319325]

>>21318930
Thank you for your support.

[Anonymous No.21319412]

>>21319184
Not trying to start a fight. And my book is free right now. I'm looking for anons who might download it, read it and provide feedback. I was under the impression /wg/ was for discussing our writing.
If you are vaxxed, you will probably not like my book. It's a fictionalized insider's take on the military vax mandate. It's about other things as well, but gives insights on how military members were coerced, threatened and bribed into taking the vaccine and how vax injuries are being ignored. A controversial subject, I know.

[Anonymous No.21319467]

>2k words in
>realize I have never brought up my MC's physical appearance other than he's lean
>3K words until someone says something about his skin color
>doesn't feel natural to use a mirror as in MC looked at his long face and rainbow afro
How the fuck is the love interest falling for this guy if he has no face to the reader lol

[Anonymous No.21319488]

How can I stay motivated writing for myself? Every time I write something past 20k words, I just lose interest in it and jump to my next idea unless I post the story online and it gains traction immediately. Unfortunately, this means that the only times I get immediate attention for my stories are whenever I write fanfiction.

I hate that I need so much external validation to enjoy my own hobby. I have an ongoing 200k word fanfiction for an IP that I need to consult the wiki for because I know nothing about it and have little interest in it, just to get that dopamine hit when people tell me they like my shit, but I can't sit down and write a story idea that I've been dreaming about for years. Every time I hit 5-20k words I get bored of it and drop it because I'm not posting it online and getting views/comments.

I love writing, but I can't write what I want to unless someone else likes it too.

[Anonymous No.21319491]

>>21319412
you’re also required to get hep b vaxxes in the us military. why didn’t you write a book about that?

[Anonymous No.21319568]

>>21319488
Post on RR. They'll eat up OC as long as it's halfway competent

[Anonymous No.21319661]

>>21319568
NTA but how much should I have written before I start posting on RR? I'm about 20 pages in, but probably going to drop that down to 15 cutting stuff out. I'm thinking I should have 50 pages/10 chapters ready?

[Anonymous No.21319663]

>>21319488
I have the same problem as you anon. Right now I'm trying to write something shorter to share with the folks in /wg/ (even though I've been burnt doing that before). Do you also have the thing where you'll read back stuff you wrote in the past and think it was kinda good and feel like you should have continued?

[Anonymous No.21319731]

>>21319661
If you want to game the algorithm, about thirty chapters for a month and then slow down to whatever.

[Anonymous No.21319769]

>>21319568
I have tried Royal Road, and have gotten some engagement there, but I personally felt like the 2-4 comments I got for each chapter wasn't enough to fill my dopamine quota. The only time I manage to get enough comments to feel good is when I write pseudo-quests with much more narrative and no dice-rolling on this specific niche site that I don't think I've ever seen mentioned on 4chan.

>>21319663
Tbh I don't have that specific problem because most of my stuff from the past is absolute ass. I do always want to continue everything I've started and dropped in the past year, but I can never find the drive.