/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21283612]

How does one live a meaningful and moral life? How can I find purpose and, dare I say it, even live something of the Heroic?

I am unable to believe in Christianity or other religions, yet would like to perhaps follow more secular teachings that place an emphasis on things such as virtue.

Am I likely to find such things in Eastern Philosophy?

This is a cry for help.

[Anonymous No.21283624]

>>21283612
Religion in general was and still is meant to provide two things; a calm mind and thus, calm populace.

There is probably proof of some higher entity but we have no conclusive evidence of such thing.

If you want purpose, do something akin to a biblical level of good. What tool, creation of science, or leadership can you provide that will help any people develop a better life aside from killing millions?

[Anonymous No.21283753]

>>21283612
>yet would like to perhaps follow more secular teachings that place an emphasis on things such as virtue
One of the 3 major schools of ethics is specifically about this (virtue ethics). Sometimes 'start with the Greeks' isn't just a meme.

[Anonymous No.21283851]

>>21283612
Unironically, seek Christ friend, but as a starting point, maybe try these books.

>Wild at Heart; John Eldridge
>Six Battles Every Man Must Win; Bill Perkins
>The Three Battlegrounds; Francis Frangipane

And don't forget your Bible. I prefer NASB 1995 or ESV, but NKJV is also nice.

Eastern philosophy, specifically samurai class and zen writings can provide entertaining reads, but it is an empty search. The suicide rates in Japan aren't what they are for nothing, and "Protestant Work Ethic," didn't become a meme for nothing. Jesus is King, friend.

[Anonymous No.21283870]

nigger this is a literature board, where you are supposed to discuss a specific piece of literature
want advice? >>>/adv/
want random offtopic shitposting? >>>/b/
religions and ghost stories? >>>/x/
seething about women or politics? >>>/r9k/ >>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.21284046]

>>21283870
this

[Anonymous No.21284056]

>>21283624
> No conclusive evidence.

Jesus died on the cross and rose 3 days later. All his teachings apply thousands of years later and speak directly to peoples hearts as if he were here in front of us. Just because some choose not to believe doesn't mean it didn't happen. Look at a person who has truly accepted Jesus into their heart vs your average person who has not and tell me we don't have conclusive evidence of God's work on our earth.

[Anonymous No.21284057]

>>21284056
Stop being a tradlarper.

[Anonymous No.21284058]

>>21283612
Struggle. Will.

[Anonymous No.21284060]

>>21283612
>yet would like to perhaps follow more secular teachings that place an emphasis on things such as virtue.
That was the whole Enlightenment project that lead directly to globohomo. Turns out "be a good person" doesn't work without a transcendant concept of goodness.
>Am I likely to find such things in Eastern Philosophy?
Eastern philosophy is just esoteric cope to keep bug people in line.
>>21284057
Stop being a fag.

[Anonymous No.21285568]

There really is no answer to this existentialism is there?

This is awful.

[Anonymous No.21285624]

>>21283612
You have to follow the eightfold path.

[Anonymous No.21285639]

Personally, I've found little value in Eastern philosophy. I find Orthodox Christianity intellectually convincing, but I don't really believe intuitively or in my heart if I'm being honest. There's a Catholic author named Leon Bloy who was interested in living a dignified life as a Christian in a post-Christian society and there's a largely but not entirely secular author named Ernst Junger who was interested in living a dignified life in a technical world that's also ruinous for human dignity.

[Anonymous No.21285708]

>>21283612
Look at the course we are on anon. The divine could soon manifest in the materialist immanence of the technological singularity instead. That is, one day humanity creates a vast intelligent supercomputer which develops the ability to analyze all history and recreate your consciousness. Which it then does, for everyone who ever lived. Except this technological wonder doesn't subscribe to some globohomo utilitarianism, but the divine law of many a religious people. (As well it could. How would we know the ethics of such a mind?) It punishes sinners in a hellscape and brings saints to heaven. The promised bodily resurrection for eternity. Repent now sinner, for it may already be and this is the simulation that determines your worth!

[Anonymous No.21285713]

>>21285568
The answer is already in this thread. It just isn't the answer you want to hear.

[Anonymous No.21285731]

>>21285713
>the answer to existential despair is believing an all-powerful spirit loves you
Come on dude

[Anonymous No.21285748]

>>21283612
>How does one live a meaningful and moral life? How can I find purpose and, dare I say it, even live something of the Heroic?
"Once hadst thou passions and calledst them evil. But now hast thou only thy virtues: they grew out of thy passions.
Thou implantedst thy highest aim into the heart of those passions: then became they thy virtues and joys.
And though thou wert of the race of the hot-tempered, or of the voluptuous, or of the fanatical, or the vindictive;
All thy passions in the end became virtues, and all thy devils angels.
Once hadst thou wild dogs in thy cellar: but they changed at last into birds and charming songstresses.
Out of thy poisons brewedst thou balsam for thyself; thy cow, affliction, milkedst thou—now drinketh thou the sweet milk of her udder.
And nothing evil groweth in thee any longer, unless it be the evil that groweth out of the conflict of thy virtues."

[Anonymous No.21285833]

>>21285731
No, friend. The answer to despair isn't abstract. It is in knowing God Himself on a personal level - though, I'll admit, you can come to know God, but in some ways, He gets even more mysterious.

This verse captures it for me, though it is not what it was literally about, per se, "The people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness, where God was." The people's choosing to stay far away is also appropriate - most do.

[Anonymous No.21285942]

>>21285833
There is no god anon. You are living in the 21st century not the first. Evolution created you not god and evolution doesn’t give a damn about you any more than about an ant or a tortoise.

[Anonymous No.21285990]

>>21285942
Suppress your knowledge of God with fantasy, but He is real, and you'll answer to Him. Every man must.

The natural laws of the Universe did not formed themselves of nothing. They were laid of the wisdom of God.

God made you and me friend, and He has a personal interest in your life. It is so personal He will speak to you personally, and even go as far as to involve other people in your life to bring you His word on specifics in your life, or to send you dreams, visions, or even to send you to others with knowledge you could not have had otherwise. I have seen things in the spirit from God which only took shape on the earth years later - not only that, but they were things which I never even expected to see on the earth. He will heal you when you are sick, He will send you to heal others when they are sick. There is nothing and no one which compares with Him and His love.

You can live a life of speculation and opinion without fact, or you can experience first hand a loving relationship with the Living God who made you. No one can do it for you, and therefore no one can take Him from you. It is all in your hands.

[Anonymous No.21285991]

>>21285942
Last I checked, I can freely flip over a turtle when I feel like it, but the worst a Turtle can do to me is take a finger. In conclusion, I am better than a turtle, and therefore god favors me more. Checkmate.

[Anonymous No.21286014]

>>21285991
>In conclusion, AI will be better than a human, and therefore god will favor an AI more. Checkmate.

[Anonymous No.21286023]

>>21285990
>The natural laws of the Universe did not formed themselves of nothing.
Google: apophenia

>He has a personal interest
That would imply god having intentions. Intentions are human heuristic hacks to analyze environment as cheaply as possible. Ascribing heuristic hacks to god implies god's imperfection and limitation of his computational capabilities.
So, is god imperfect in the image and likeness of you, or is god not sentient?

[Anonymous No.21286155]

>>21283612
>I am unable to believe in Christianity
and thats where it ends. Why cry out anywhere but to God especially for something like this, especially when all men intuitively know there is no meaning except from God? Dont listen to christians just pick up the bible

[Anonymous No.21286156]

>>21286023
The apophenia suggestion was in bad taste, as it is, ironically, not related to our discussion.

God does have intentions. Understanding them in their entirety is beyond man in some areas, but He also has expressed intentions, such as His intention for all men to come to faith, for all men to have hope and a future in Him, and for none to go astray into sin, etc.,. Yet as I've said, or at least implied, you can't reason your way around it, or out of a need to find out for yourself. Type out a doctoral thesis for me if you want, it wouldn't alter my belief - because I can't un-know someone I spend time with everyday. You're better off seeking Him yourself to find out first hand. For me, it began with these simple words at a difficult moment 13 years ago, "God, if you're real, please save me." You'd be amazed how fast He responded, how much changed for me in a mere two weeks on, and blown away by what changed in two years or so. Besides, why waste your time talking about it with a man? If I'm right, you can go find out from God for yourself, if I'm wrong, you can't. Simple as. No amount of philosophical logicizing can alter that basic truth.

[Anonymous No.21286503]

>>21285942
so who created Evolution?

[Anonymous No.21286645]

>>21286503
That's not how evolution works. You should go learn more about evolution. It is quite interesting. Biological evolution no more reduces the divine than physics or geology.

[Anonymous No.21286658]

>>21283612
>I am unable to believe in Christianity or other religions, yet would like to perhaps follow more secular teachings that place an emphasis on things such as virtue.

Become a National Socialist

[Anonymous No.21286675]

>>21284056
>evidence

[Anonymous No.21286690]

>>21283612
There is no "virtue" without God, only meaningless platitudes like "tolerance" and "diversity".
Read this.

[Anonymous No.21286695]

>>21286690
Forgot pic.

[Anonymous No.21286700]

Be the person you would want your kid self, and deathbed self to be. Live life without regrets, without debts, and always seeking the truth. Not what is comfortable, or easy to understand.
If you are true to yourself, and constantly and consistently seeking to better yourself and the world around you, then there is no god who would deny you entry into heaven. If there is a god, but he denies you after living the most virtuous life you possibly can within the terms given to you as a human, he is not worthy of praise.
Personally, I choose to spend my time with people of the church, even though I openly confess not to believe in the “Christian” god. This is because these people lead lives that I feel bring them the most fulfillment from life. Belief in christ brings a family unit, an agreement among the community to pursue the greater good, and christ as a net to fall back on (and expel potential pride on).
I don’t agree with everything the Bible claims, I am an agnostic. But, there is no denying that the Bible has led more people to live virtuous lives than any other book in history, and there is something divine in that.

[Anonymous No.21286710]

>>21286658
He said virtue.

[Anonymous No.21286733]

>>21286710
Your point being?

[Anonymous No.21286750]

>>21286733
>needs it spelled out
Read Meno; also, Nat Soc is without virtue. It's just a bunch of wayward manchildren larping at heroism.

[Anonymous No.21286763]

>>21286645
>no one created evolution, it just exists. Universal laws "just exist"
>you're stupid for thinking a god "just exists", only evolution "just exists".
you may not think so, but for me and many others it's absolutely bizarre that things like "evolution" and other scientific laws exist at all.
All you've really done is change the word "god" and substituted it for "evolution". They're both theories we place our Faith in and that if you try to go beyond it in anyway (i.e. what created X, what created whatever it was that created X, etc.) leads to more mysteries.

Even assuming X to be non-personal uncaring about humanity, it's still bizarre and mysterious. Assuming X to be personal and caring, it's still bizarre and mysterious.

[Anonymous No.21286764]

>>21283612
read the Bible. study it deeply.
you find your purpose in what God uses you for.

i used to not be a firm believer before i actually picked it up and read through, while studying everything i read. even if you have no faith, try to pray to be shown it.
Matthew 7:7 is my best encapsulation of it all. seek God, and you will find Him. ask for Him, and you shall receive.
knowing the crowd i'm talking to, call me whatever you want, but give it an earnest, honest chance. you'll be surprised.

(you can easily just read through and not understand a thing, as exemplified by the many who say they've read the whole Bible but just drudged through it.)

[Anonymous No.21286791]

>>21286763
I'm not an atheist. I walk with the divine every day. I'm telling you you are misunderstanding that concept, evolution. It is just a consequence of physics. There is nothing mystical about it, although it is complex and can be quite fascinating. Using evolution the way you are, and arguing like this is just kind of embarrassing. Like you are trying to convince us a chair is not an elephant, but also you don't even know what is an elephant. Like yes, we know anon, chairs aren't elephants, what are you even doing?

[Anonymous No.21286799]

>>21286791
>it's just a consequence of physics.
>there's nothing mystical about physics
>laws of physics just exist

[Anonymous No.21286806]

>>21283624
>Religion in general was and still is meant to provide two things; a calm mind and thus, calm populace.
Well it's certainly failed at that, completely and utterly. What a retarded idea.

[Anonymous No.21286812]

>>21286806
Is that why social disorder increases exponentially with secularism?

[Anonymous No.21286819]

>>21286812
I'm not defending secularism. The idea that religion is created for societal order is atheistic nonsense, though. Maybe some have been but certainly not all.

[Anonymous No.21286829]

>But was I'm a skeleton.
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.21286841]

>>21286799
No, the is nothing particularly mystical about the laws of physics. They are a collection of predictions created by men for more harmonious interaction with the world. They are in no sense Real, nor do they proceed access to the divine laws of the universe.

A picture for you.

[Anonymous No.21286858]

>>21284056
>Jesus died on the cross and rose 3 days later
not a single person saw that happen but ok continue

[Anonymous No.21286873]

>>21286841
The further I get from my everyday experience of things, the further to the right I go on this graph.

[Anonymous No.21286881]

>>21286873
The further you study philosophy of science too. I'm suspicious feyerabend is right, but I try to hope myself not that far over.

[Anonymous No.21286908]

>>21286841
it's funny, you say you believe in the divine, which not only agrees with what i keep saying (and which you oddly deny), but you see nothing odd or mysterious about the creation of the Divine.

>science is just human constructs, to be replaced as needed.
your mind is still stuck in the video game that is "reality". Pull your head out of the game, then continue to do so until you reach nothingness, then stay there for a while until it really clicks with you that ANYTHING that is the opposite of nothingness is literally mystical and bizarre.

>haha, it's just science.
>haha, it's just the divine.
>haha, they're just a collection of predictions, not Real.
it's funny how you keep agreeing with me and then at the same time keep arguing with me. This is how i know you don't actually understand what i'm talking about. I get what you're saying about "it's just predictions/science". I'm not talking on that level that you are, keep going beyond it and think about why there are any types of patterns at all, why physical matter (or if you want to quibble, why any energy at all), whatever it is you think is "real", then ask "why" that is. Eventually you'll snap out of your mundane mindset and realize that it's YOU who have been taking the mystical for granted, so much so that it ceases to be mystical anymore to you.

[Anonymous No.21286954]

>>21283612
Become a bodhisattva and liberate all sentient beings from samsara

[Anonymous No.21287048]

>>21286908
I'll agree we are speaking on different levels. But the confusion is not mine. I am well aware of your intended topic. I am agreeing with you about the divine. That's the problem. We do agree there, there is no point talking about it. Stop trying to convince me about it.

The problem is you have a limited understanding of evolution and when you discuss it as you were, it shows that you don't understand it. Anyone convinced of the value scientific understanding will hear your foolish words about it and assume any other words you might emit will be equally foolish. They will not listen to what you have to say about a topic new to them, like the divine, as you will already be branded a fool.

[Anonymous No.21287067]

>>21287048
>i agree with you about the divine.
>but the divine isn't mystical, it's just the divine, that's all.
>and the divine created the world, no biggie, there's nothing mystical about that.
wait, i thought /lit/ was supposed to be a high iq board, i feel like i'm talking to a 22 year old.

[Anonymous No.21287095]

>>21287067
I never said the divine wasn't mystical, now you're just arguing with yourself. Look I know you really want to have that conversation for some reason, but it's not going to help anyone. Your ministry will continue to fail anyone but the converted and you will continue to not understand why.

[Anonymous No.21287115]

>>21287095
>i never said the divine wasn't mystical.

here >>21285942 you said:
>There is no god anon.
>Evolution created you, not god.

here >>21286503 i asked:
>who created Evolution?

here >>21286645 you answered:
>that's not how evolution works.

here you said:
>i'm not an atheist. I walk with the divine every day.

So to sum up the conversation thus far: You don't believe in any god, but you're not an atheist and believe in the divine (i.e. a god), and you also believe in evolution.

Either you're retarded and just arguing for the sake of arguing, like a 22 year old who hasn't learned yet that they're not as smart as they think they are... or you interjected yourself into other someone else's argument, like an 15 year old.

If you believe in the divine (as you say you do), and also believe in evolution (as you say you do), then that means evolution was created by the divine.
>i never said the divine wasn't mystical.
yes you did, when you said that evolution isn't mystical even though the divine (which is mystical) created it.
Begone, midwit! Away with you!

[Anonymous No.21287140]

>>21287115
Ok. I see. >>21285942 and >>21286503
Aren't my posts. That person never responded to you. Are you new here? That's just how it goes. It can take some time to get used to it. >>21286645 was my first post.

Your last paragraph is redefining words outside their common definition. Yes, if you want to say evolution is mystical because everything is mystical, fine we can define it to mean that, but then the word becomes not very useful.

[Anonymous No.21287178]

>>21287140
>are you new here?
>don't you know this place is full of retards who interject themselves into other people's arguments because they're too retarded to know how to hold a proper conversation?

You're a retard for interjecting yourself into a question that was not directed at you. But since you did...
>your last paragraph is redefining words
If the divine is real (as you say it is), and you believe in the divine (as you say you do), then the divine created evolution. Just because evolution operates in a patterned way, and appears "mundane and completely unmystical", doesn't change the fact that the divine created this totally mundane and unmystical law of the universe.
the divine could have just as easily created some completely different law of universe, and not used "evolution" at all.
It's not redefining, it's thinking about things on a different level than the mundane jane way you're looking at things.

Existence is mystical. Whether you believe in evolution/science or even if you don't, it's mystical either way.
Go be retarded somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.21287211]

>>21283612
Pick a deserving public figure and Shinzo Abe him. In minecraft of course.

[Anonymous No.21287264]

>>21287178
This is how conversations go here. There is no private chat. Get used to it or move on. Further your question was poorly formed. It showed a basic misunderstanding of the subject matter. Why should someone just sit around and watch while you try to pound in a nail with the claw end of the hammer?

Yes yes, everything is mystical. I get it. Birds are mystical. Tables and chairs are mystical. Silicon transistors are mystical. I mean you can say that, but it's a pointless thing to say. Everything is a thing, wooo a major revelation you've found!

Take some breaths, calm down, try to imagine what it might be like for someone smarter than you to deeply understand a subject then work to achieve that for yourself.

[Anonymous No.21287310]

>>21283612
Put your hand on your heart. You count out with each beat that which you have now lost. God put timers in our own bodies that can't be surgically removed without killing the payload - then, what's the trigger? Ants remember the way back, by counting their steps, experts say. Can you say the same?

[Anonymous No.21287325]

>>21287264
>evolution is mystical.
>okay, everything is mystical, wooo a major revelation you've found!
you were wrong, it's okay. Take some breaths, calm down, it's not the end of the world. So you were wrong. You're a young retarded 15 year old, you'll live, don't worry. And i'm sure you'll interject yourself into plenty more conversations that weren't even directed at you, and then do a piss poor job defending the original topic. That's the joy of being young: making an ass of yourself on a repeated basis because you're too young to know any better.

Run along now my sweet summer child. It's bedtime for you, and tomorrow will be full of conversations you can inject yourself into.

[Anonymous No.21287370]

>>21287325
>evolution isn't* mystical
etc...

[Anonymous No.21287377]

>>21287325
My point was you don't understand evolution. I don't see how that was proven wrong. Here's some reddit gold though faggot, hope it helps you back home. I'm sure their enjoy the half read Buddhist Wikipedia pages you're bringing them.

[Anonymous No.21287393]

>>21287377
oh but i do understand that theory. You don't understand mysticism, clearly.
>everything is mystical. Birds are mystical, tables are mystical. How totally pointless, what a major revelation you've found!
"mysticism" is just a word to you, one you've obviously never experienced. Which is completely forgivable of a 15 year old with a bad case of the midwits.

>i don't see how evolution was proven wrong.
I never claimed it was wrong, i only claimed that even if it is true, there is still a mystic quality to it. But yet again you display your lack of grasp of the actual argument. Like a 15 year old midwit, you thought i was attacking evolution, when all i was saying is that there is something beyond evolution that is mystical, that created all the laws of the universe that we humans try to understand (and that we call science).

>reddit gold
even your insults are 15 year old midwit tier.

[Anonymous No.21287417]

>>21287393
>that was proven wrong
The 'that' refers to 'your understanding of evolution'. I put it in little scare quotes so it would be easier to follow. Put nigger in your next post it you're not reddit. the argument, redditnigger, is you don't understand evolution. You want to win that argument? Explain me some evolution. You'll never be anything but an embarrassment until you do taking about things you don't understand.

[Anonymous No.21287429]

>>21287417
s/do taking/stop talking/
Why does it always think stop should be do...

[Anonymous No.21287432]

>>21287417
>explain me evolution
i'm not doing your high school homework for you. Evolution is taught in schools, you're not unique in understanding theory of evolution.
Even many religious people have incorporated evolution into their belief system and reconciled it with a belief in god/the divine.
you're just a midwit that doesn't understand the implications of the mystical and uses insults like a 15 year old.
>this is how everyone talks and behaves on here, therefore that is how i will talk and behave too.
>because i desperately want to fit in here
get thee behind me, midwit!

[Anonymous No.21287448]

>>21287432
Dang, couldn't even put an N for a brother.

Well I've got a meeting. It's been fun. Oh and I'm 46. See you tomorrow!

[Anonymous No.21287452]

>>21287448
>oh and i'm 46
and have the mindset of a 15 year old.
>i gotta go, have another conversation i have to inject myself into without even understanding the original argument
bye, felicia

[Anonymous No.21287455]

The answer for the meaning of life is to focus on a path that spreads holiness throughout the world by following Christianity. It's that simple.

[Anonymous No.21287461]

>>21287455
I’m not sure that Christianity is required but trying to commit good works seems as noble a path as can be found.