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/lit/ - Literature

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21215487 No.21215487 [Reply] [Original]

>I think that Bukowski was a hack and that John Martin's edits to Bukowski's poems make the poems sound way better, yet Martin--a patient, accommodating editor--has been unfairly maligned.
>BUKOWSKI: if you're going to try it, go all the way. otherwise, don't get into it.
>MARTIN: if you're going to try, go all the way. otherwise, don't even start.
>BUKOWSKI: all the other is a test of your guts.
>MARTIN: all the others are a test of your endurance.
>BUKOWSKI: against total rejection and the highest of odds.
>MARTIN: despite rejection and the worst odds.
>BUKOWSKI: but it will be better than doing anything else you can think of.
>MARTIN: and it will be better than anything else you can imagine.

>> No.21215504

>>21215487
he does improve the sentences, it's true.

>> No.21215513

>>21215504
But MAYBE Bukowski is supposed to sound like shit?

>> No.21215521

>>21215513
>IT'S SUPPOSED TO SUCK AND BE BAD POETRY!
come on now

>> No.21215810

>>21215487
Editors almost always improve books. One of the biggest problems is when a writer gets too rich and famous and editors can't push him around any more. It's the same with films. The "Director's Cut" is almost always flabby.

People go on and on about Raymond Carver's brilliant "show don't tell" style but if you read his original manuscripts they're awful. They have the "show" bit and then they clunkily go on and tell it as well. Gordon Lish just cut out the crap.Some stories he cut by 70% (!) so it wasn't just a matter of tweaking here and there.

Basically the artist is creative and the critic is destructive, and an editor is like a critic, so the one thing an editor will do really well is cut away what's not needed. Adding something that needs adding — not so much.

>> No.21215815

>>21215521
That's literally Bukowski's whole thing though. It sounds like shit and is like every day dumb person speech, focusing on meaningless mundane shit that dumb people think about.

>> No.21215825

>>21215810
>I change word to more obscure word
>I am le genius!
do editors really?

>> No.21215851

>>21215825
Yes

>> No.21217230

>>21215815
why would he do that?

>> No.21217292

People here shit all the time on modern female "poetry" yet give them garbage in OP and say its Bukowski and no one will even bat a eye

>> No.21217303

>>21217292
People already know Bukowski is a shit poet, anon. That's no mystery.