/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21049564]

I'm looking for an actually unbiased book about this individual.
Any suggestions?

[Anonymous No.21049595]

>>21049564
Your definition of an unbiased take on him would definitely be biased.

[Anonymous No.21049604]

What he said. OP, rephrase your question honestly or you'll find no help here.

[Anonymous No.21049605]

>>21049595
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.21049615]

>>21049564
Something that focuses on his rise to power and his charisma in an objective way instead of
>Le crazy man was crazy because his father beat him blah blah

[Anonymous No.21049625]

>>21049615
>Charisma
>Objective
Pls op you’re embarrassing yourself

[Anonymous No.21049627]

>>21049595
This. You get the biased for or the biased against. Hyopthetically, any "unbiased" examination would never reach publishing because it'll definitely make the "wrong" assertions which upset them (((them))) but will also not be pro-nazi enough to get underground redpill support.

[Anonymous No.21049637]

>>21049625
>Hitler
>not charismatic
You're retarded.

[Anonymous No.21049642]

>>21049637
That’s not my argument moron. The argument was that there is no objective measure for charisma. Any evaluation on that is subjective, especially considering that charisma isn’t the only reason why someone follows a leader

[Anonymous No.21049645]

>>21049625
Average example of the retarded pseudo intellectual of this board

[Anonymous No.21049646]

>>21049627
> the "wrong" assertions which upset them (((them)))
Name one such unbiased assertion

[Anonymous No.21049650]

>>21049642
Really can you stop trying so hard? You will not get smarter believe me

[Anonymous No.21049661]

>>21049646
That the holocaust is widely exaggerated. That Hitler was democratically elected. That he had a good reuptation and character acvording to the German public. That he financially saved Gernany from hyperinflation during the great depression. The weimar was degenerate. That he's the only example of socialism ever working.

[Anonymous No.21049664]

>>21049645
>>21049650
>oh no, it seems like I am wrong. But if I say the meme bad words to him it makes me look smart

[Anonymous No.21049669]

We have this thread every two days.

[Anonymous No.21049670]

>>21049661
That there is a problem with the Jewish people.

[Anonymous No.21049677]

>>21049642
>it's subjective
Weakest argument in existence. Says absolutely nothing insightful and only serves to conceal what truth there is. Reddit may be more your pace.

[Anonymous No.21049693]

>>21049661
> That Hitler was democratically elected
Common knowledge, even in Germany. You forgot to mention though how it was only ~33% of the votes if I remember correctly, which they turned into a dictatorship after the Reichstagsbrand
> That he financially saved Gernany from hyperinflation during the great depression.
Not true, Germany was already on its way out of the Great Depression before Hitler was elected
> The weimar was degenerate.
Not objective
> That he's the only example of socialism ever working.
Not socialism. First thing the Nazis did was privatize the German steel industry. There is even a quote from hitler himself how they weren’t socialist, though I can’t be bothered to look it up. Also I didn’t work as you can hopefully tell from history.

All in all, gay /pol/ thread, go be a faggot somewhere else

[Anonymous No.21049699]

>>21049693
Where can I read to better educate myself?

[Anonymous No.21049706]

>>21049693
Also, forgot to mention, but there are books in Germany published by Germans right now that you can buy everywhere that talk about these exact things

[Anonymous No.21049707]

An objective measure of charisma is the number of people you have that follow and support you. Another is a positive opinion of you, even when acting firmly. You complete kiking fuckbag.

[Anonymous No.21049719]

>>21049699
Encyclopedia on the third reich for general information, the rise and fall of the third reich by shirer if you want the personal account of an American living in Germany during the era (has been recommended to me, haven’t read it myself yet), and I believe Tolands biography of Hitler is the one that gets cited the most

[Anonymous No.21049720]

>>21049693
You are an actual retard. Read about the Weimar Republic. Also if Germany had to continue paying off World War One debt it could only do it with aggressive money supply being added. Hitler defying that actually did save them from a worse economic outcome (in the short come).

Betraying Russia and invading everyone in Europe was not so smart though.
Also while the there was likely a million Jewish deaths (still a bad thing, not denying that.) The exaggeration was made to justify the existence of Israel.

[Anonymous No.21049726]

>>21049707
One can be completely uncharismatic and still have followers you absolute imbecile. Look at Joe Biden

[Anonymous No.21049732]

>>21049719
Toland's 'Adolf Hitler' or 'Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography'?

[Anonymous No.21049741]

>>21049595
>the guy whose name became a catchword for all things evil and an insult to slander someone with different beliefs
Protip for the future: when a statement you make boils down to a generality (e.g. every one is bias) you're either disingenuous, retarded, or both.

[Anonymous No.21049745]

>>21049726
The democratic party is not built around Biden, nor did he start it in the back of a beer hall with five quiet men. You dense sack of shit.

[Anonymous No.21049748]

>>21049726
Not that anon but people don't find him charismatic.

When most of the German speaking populace finds you charismatic, and this is one of the nigh universally claimed means of your gaining popularity, then it's safe to say that you are charismatic. At least to German speaking people.

[Anonymous No.21049749]

>>21049726
He has a media apparatus manufacturing charisma for him. In certain countries political leaders used to get away with having very little charisma but that has changed a lot in just in the last 10 years.

[Anonymous No.21049750]

>>21049720
Also the transfer agreement is never mentioned. Edwin Black i believe wrote the main book on it and I think he was Jewish as well so the vacklash he received from other Jews should be an indication of unbias.

[Anonymous No.21049768]

>>21049720
Pic related is the German gdp
Cope all you want, facts don’t care about your feelings

[Anonymous No.21049781]

>>21049745
It is also completely moronic to believe that Hitler became counselor just by being charismatic
>>21049748
I wasn’t denying that most people would call adolf hitler charismatic ( including myself), however, charisma, as op stated in his post, isn’t a a question of 0 or 1, there’s gradients to it and there is no objective measurement for those

[Anonymous No.21049796]

>>21049781
>It is also completely moronic to believe that Hitler became counselor just by being charismatic

Nowhere was that said by me you fucking idiot. But it is largely true, the National-Socialist movement was built around the many speeches of one man.

Well done, you're wrong twice.

[Anonymous No.21049798]

>>21049768
That proves his point though (especally if you zoom in on the relevant part). The graph shows marked instability throughout the Weimar period and continued growth once the Nazis took power. By the way, lying about that type of shit discredits you.

[Anonymous No.21049805]

>>21049798
>the gdp just magically increased the second the Nazis took power in 1933
I honestly feel like playing chess with a chicken right now. It is honestly baffling how fucking retarded you are

[Anonymous No.21049806]

>>21049741
>when a statement you make boils down to a generality
You literally just made one retard

[Anonymous No.21049809]

>>21049806
I was specific. Cope retard.

[Anonymous No.21049814]

>>21049796
> But it is largely true, the National-Socialist movement was built around the many speeches of one man.
No it was not lmao
> Hjalmar Schacht, the banker who was once a major figure in the German Democratic Party, turned to the Nazis and eventually became Hitler’s appointee as head of the Reich bank. Fritz Thyssen, the steel magnate, was a firm advocate of the Nazis until the late 1930’s, when he defected and wrote a book entitled I Paid Hitler. Gustav Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach backed the Nazis because of his generally antiunion authoritarianism and his hopes for big armament contracts. “Everybody knows” that big business donated heavily to the Nazi coffers. All one has to do is read the newspapers of the Weimar years to learn the details or read the books exposing the connections.

[Anonymous No.21049815]

>>21049805
>strawman
I'm a different anon. I specifically said that the graph shows instability replaced by a period of continued growth. When you contextualize that with the global depression going on at the time it emphasizes the success of the German economy under the Nazis even moreso. Stop being a triggered ideologue and just give the devil his due.

[Anonymous No.21049818]

Attention: This escaped polchud thread is now a lit footchad thread. Footchad Wisdom Number 14: Now a woman can have a 10 out of 10 body, but if her second toe isn't longer than the first, it's over.

[Anonymous No.21049819]

>>21049809
What you said boils down to a generality my nigga. You're lost.

[Anonymous No.21049826]

>>21049819
>boiling a specific down to generality
Yeah, you're a disingenuous retard.

[Anonymous No.21049841]

>>21049826
You legit did that to the post you responded to

[Anonymous No.21049845]

Speaking of this individual, does anyone have a book recommendation on Hitler's (or Nazi) rhetoric and persuasion?

[Anonymous No.21049847]

>>21049815
There is not a single fiscal policy any country in this entire fucking world could enact that would change the trend in gdp in half a year. It’s wishful thinking. Pic related is the American gdp of the same time. Their economy recovered just as well one year prior to Germany, and they didn’t have a magic Hitler. International markets stabilized and that’s the main reason Germany thrived again. I’m not saying that it would have risen the exact same way with out the Nazis, I mean, massive privatization among other things will of course have contributed, but them magically turning around a failing economy is just 100% bullcrap for /pol/tards

[Anonymous No.21049850]

>>21049841
No, you're doing it now though and proving my point.
>Your definition of an unbiased take on him would definitely be biased.
Comes down to "everyone is bias." Begs a nebulous semantical argument that will devolve into attempts to monopolize parameters in which tautological assertions carry weight rather than individual arguments.
>when a statement you make boils down to a generality (e.g. every one is bias) you're either disingenuous, retarded, or both
A statment referencing the context to the comment that was made and making a specific argument (i.e. see above).

You're a retard. Now accuse me of writing world salad because you're too stupid to have this conversation.

[Anonymous No.21049853]

>>21049847
>change the trend in gdp
Same strawman again. Continued growth after a period of instability.

[Anonymous No.21049857]

>>21049847
Also, you're highlighting the graph right after the crash and ignoring the decline. You don't even know how to read these, do you?

[Anonymous No.21049867]

>>21049850
You're writing word-salad. Generalities are a part of speech. In your statement, when and whenever are synonymous terms.
>Whenever a statement you make boils down to a generality, you're either disingenous, retarded, or both
The main premise of this statement is an obvious generalization. I'm not responding to you anymore because you're obviously autistic

[Anonymous No.21049870]

>>21049781
>however, charisma, as op stated in his post, isn’t a a question of 0 or 1, there’s gradients to it and there is no objective measurement for those
I agree, but this amounts to an essentially useless statement. Yes we know it's not a question of mathematical certainty, but one can still speak objectively about Hitler being charismatic. To say otherwise is to either not think he was charismatic (since you're denying the obviously perceptible 'something' in Hitler which we call charisma), or to just refuse to come to any opinion on the matter.

The measurable is not the only objectivity.

[Anonymous No.21049872]

>>21049867
>You're writing word-salad.
Stopped right there. You're a predictable retard too stupid to have this conversation.

[Anonymous No.21049873]

>>21049726
>Joe Biden
Completely manufactured. The same people calling him racist and old before the elections, now pretend they like him (this includes all the Bernie fags that are now dnc attack dogs).

[Anonymous No.21049882]

>>21049814
Hitler did not appoint a banker at the formation of the movement you dumb fuck. That came after the movement was formed and enjoyed popular support from all demographics.

I will say again, because you are a fucking idiot, the National Socialist movement was built around the speeches, debates and public talks of Hitler. The movement, once established, was then maintained via good statesmanship.

[Anonymous No.21049898]

>>21049882
> That came after the movement was formed and enjoyed popular support from all demographics.
and this is precisely not true. The nsdap hat big boy financial support straight from the beginning

[Anonymous No.21049908]

>>21049564
>actually unbiased

[Anonymous No.21049918]

>>21049726
Joe Biden is a crippled clone of an actual Joe Biden who is probably dead or confined in a maximum-security secret jail.

[Anonymous No.21049933]

>>21049898
No. He did not. At all. Not even the police would protect or even passively support them, hence the creation of the Protection Squads. Your kikery and lies only serves to convince more average people that he was right.

[Anonymous No.21049958]

>>21049898
Are you trying to imply they were backed by Globalists?

Are you trying to damage discourse on the subject to prevent a better understanding?

Are you engaging in the exact kind of behavior and practices that caused the German population to stand by and watch as you were fed in to ovens?

[Anonymous No.21049974]

>>21049933
>not being above law = no big financial support
No, retardation like this is the reason why the only countries that turned fascist afterwards where either 3rd world shitholes with retarded populations or cia operations or both

[Anonymous No.21049983]

>>21049958
Not globalists, but industrial giants where supporting guys like Harrer and Drexler even before Hitler was part of the party

[Anonymous No.21050020]

>>21049933
>lies only serves to convince more average people that he was right
Not a fan of Nazis but you're right about that and people should learn that lesson.

[Anonymous No.21050097]

>>21049983
>Drexler even before Hitler was part of the party
Drexler, the poor, anti-semetic anti-big-business racialist and non-marxist socialist was backed by big business? When all big businesses were crumbling and experiencing hyper-inflation and those that were not were jewish owned typically?

Harrer the quasi-spiritual journalist who quit the party when Hitler took over?

Who the fuck are you kidding here?

[Anonymous No.21050108]

>>21049564
Albert Speer - Inside the Third Reich
Joachim Fest - Hitler
Ian Kershaw - Hitler: 1889-1936 Hubris

[Anonymous No.21050128]

>>21049974
Every country is turning to a 3rd world shit hole. Statesmanship as a craft is dead, briefly National-Socialism had a moment wherein it returned. There is only the modern liberal democracy, where there is no punishment for failure and nothing matters beyond looking good. Spending money on an ad on tv saying you are fixing a bridge is vastly more important than fixing the bridge as more people will see it.

[Anonymous No.21050153]

>>21050128
>Spending money on an ad on tv saying you [support sex performers interacting with small children in publically funded libraries] is vastly more important than fixing [anything]
FTFY

[Anonymous No.21050164]

>>21050108
Speer's book is basically apologetics from a snobby member of the liberal class (with lots of spergs about architecture mixed in) and Kershaw's bio definitely doesn't take a neutral stance.

[Anonymous No.21050168]

>>21050153
Im referring to the basic principles of governing, not yet touching on the horrific societal decay that has progressed under every liberal democracy. If looking good is better than doing good, the system is irrepairably broken and needs replace root and stem.

The sector of society that pushes what you have illuminated is a symptom, not a cause. One that can be removed in its entirity with an undemocratic government that places certain principles at its guide.

[Anonymous No.21050246]

>>21049564
Is this the only serious reply?
>Hitler, Beyond Tyranny and Evil, Stolfi
Great book. I'm not a nazi or anti-nazi of any kind. desu I couldn't care less about political or moral stances regarding that specific time frame.

[Anonymous No.21050309]

>>21050168
I'm a different anon.

[Anonymous No.21050577]

>>21049564
the truth is inherently biased in his favor

[Anonymous No.21050587]

>unbiased

[Anonymous No.21050613]

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is pretty cool because William L. Shirer was actually there and gives illuminating eye witness reports. On the other hand, Hitler by Ian Kershaw reads like pure farce -- a more accurate picture of the third Reich in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.21050637]

>>21050613
>The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is pretty cool because William L. Shirer was actually there and gives illuminating eye witness reports.

I recently picked that up, hardcover for $1 in good nick, and have been reading his less than orthodox opinions have come under fire by the usual suspects. Have yet to begin reading it.

[Anonymous No.21050639]

This comparison between Hitler and Otto Strasser is a GREAT place to start.
>zero pseuds, liberals or jews on this board have read it.
https://archive.org/details/ReedDouglasTheControversyOfZion_201903/Reed_Douglas_-_Nemesis_The_Story_of_Otto_Strasser/

[Anonymous No.21050652]

>>21049661
>That he's the only example of socialism ever working.
>Destroys the country in 15 years

[Anonymous No.21050675]

>>21050637
His work comes under fire from the usual suspects because he tries to link Nazism with homosexuality while we now see the Nazis as people who persecuted homosexuals. Shirer was definitely anti-Nazi.

[Anonymous No.21050686]

>>21050652
>dominated the Berlin Olympics by 2:1
>Defeated every major state in Europe, repeatedly
>All while purging society of unwanted groups
>No starvation, no famines
>No horrific leap forward that decimated the population
>Healthiest nation in the world
>most advanced weapon systems, rocketry and mechanical systems
>history of greatest philosophy and thinking

[Anonymous No.21050688]

Read the Young Hitler I Knew. Really good book

[Anonymous No.21050692]

>>21049693
>> That Hitler was democratically elected
>Common knowledge, even in Germany.
then germany is fucking retarded because hitler was named reichskanzler by an emergency decree of hindenburg after two elections in a row ended in a deadlock. that's not "being elected," he specifically failed to "be elected" twice in a row and then got the position through backroom dealings with hindenburg's clique.

[Anonymous No.21050709]

>>21050686
>>All while purging society of unwanted groups
>>No starvation, no famines
>>No horrific leap forward that decimated the population
Topkek

[Anonymous No.21050711]

>>21050675
No, it does not at all you kike.

It comes under fire for thinking that the german Special Path, Sonderweg, played a greater part. That the numerous scandals involving Jewish (and other) peoples, both economical and polticial hardened polticial opinion. That the many attempted Marxist/Communist takeovers in Germany, some succesful, that were led mainly led by Jews. That the very real genesis of the stab-in-the-back, while not exclusively jews were overrepresented in jews caused German's surrender all played a substantial role in the formation of the National Socialist State, among other things.

[Anonymous No.21050721]

>>21050709
Of Germans, the group they wanted to preserve. There was no civil war where paranoua reigned and people were assassinated left and right after sitting in a position for several years. After Long Knives, things immediately improver for ethnic Germans. Which is more than can be said for Ethic Russians or any Cambodians, or any demographic under Communist rule.

[Anonymous No.21050726]

>>21050721
As I recall, it was indeed the Germans who ended up getting starved and decimated as a direct result of Hitler's policies. A few rapes too

[Anonymous No.21050744]

>>21050726
That would be when losing a war. Had he not opened up the second front with the Soviet Union, they were poised to so the same.

[Anonymous No.21050778]

>>21049933
>No. He did not. At all.

An even more useful convert was Ernst ‘Putzi’ Hanfstaengl, a six-foot-four-inch-tall, cultured part-American (...) from an upper-middle-class art-dealer family, Harvard graduate, partner in an art-print publishing firm, and extremely well-connected in Munich salon society. (...) providing openings to circles far different from the petty-bourgeois roughnecks in Hitler’s entourage who gathered each Monday in the Café Neumaier. (...) Everyone who was someone in Munich would be invited at some stage to the soirées of Frau Bruckmann, by birth a Rumanian princess, so that Hitler was brought into contact here with industrialists, members of the army and aristocracy, and academics. (...)
Hitler was constantly seeking to tap party friends and supporters for donations. But any payment in Marks, however large, was immediately devalued through the galloping currency depreciation. There was a premium, therefore, on donations made in hard foreign currency. Lüdecke and Hanfstaengl, as already noted, were useful in this regard. Hanfstaengl also financed with an interest-free loan of 1,000 dollars – a fortune in inflation-ridden Germany – the purchase of two rotary presses that enabled the Völkischer Beobachter to appear in larger, American-style format. (...) official inquiries in 1923 revealed considerable sums raised from an increasing array of benefactors.
One important go-between was Max Erwin von Scheubner-Richter (...) A significant, if shadowy, figure in the early Nazi Party, he used his excellent connections with Russian emigrés, such as Princess Alexandra, wife of the Russian heir to the throne Prince Kyrill, to acquire funds directed at Ludendorff and, through him, deflected in part to the NSDAP. Other members of the aristocracy, including Frau Gertrud von Seidlitz, who used monies from foreign stocks and shares, also contributed to Nazi funds. Hitler was almost certainly a co-beneficiary (though probably in a minor way) of the generous gift of 100,000 Gold Marks made by Fritz Thyssen, heir to the family’s Ruhr steelworks, to Ludendorff (...) Police inquiries which remained inconclusive suggested that Borsig and car-manufacturers Daimler were among other firms contributing to the party. Some Bavarian industrialists and businessmen, too, were persuaded by Hitler to make donations to the movement.
Valuable funds were also obtained abroad. (...) Dr Emil Gansser, a Berlin chemist and long-standing Nazi supporter, who engineered a gift of 33,000 Swiss Francs from right-wing Swiss benefactors. Further Swiss donations followed a visit from Hitler himself to Zürich in the summer of 1923. And from right-wing circles in the arch-enemy France, 90,000 Gold Marks were passed to Captain Karl Mayr, Hitler’s first patron.

TOTALLY ORGANIC PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT (financed from its earliest days by aristocrats and international financial elites) GROWN THROUGH HITLER'S PERSONAL SKILLS (at sucking rich people dick)

[Anonymous No.21050820]

>>21050778
Are you comparing the infatuation of a moderately wealthy German-American, who had his business confiscated who furnished a limited print of a book and paid for paper supplies for a short lived racialist newspaper with the support of big business?

Or are you just retarded?

[Anonymous No.21051058]

>>21050675
>uses the idea of faggotry to slander constantly throughout the book
>NOOOO, WE LOVE FAGS NOW!
>err...everything else is on point and he was ANTI-NAZI!
Kek.

[Anonymous No.21051066]

>>21050778
>(You)

[Anonymous No.21051179]

Reminder that pre-nazi Germany had the following:
>open child prostitution
>an entite glossary for terms for women, from the desperate war-widow to the starving mother to the mad slut
>that wild hedonostic sex was everywhere
>that lgbt was making inroads to society, for the first time gender and sex were seperated

All of these groups were violently persecuted by the National-Socialists, why is this?

[Anonymous No.21051574]

>>21050652
>lost the war
>against the entire world
>but he still nearly won
That is the might of National Socialism.

[Anonymous No.21051606]

>>21049873
>people start making fun of brandon's government's malicious stupidity by labelling him as an evil overlord
>brandonfags cope by admitting he is evil but that it is a good thing
They don't actually care about the country just aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.21051610]

>created a world-view so dangerous that merely the interest in learning about it is enough to cause suspicion
>Even vagely supporting it is grounds for half the population to attack you
>any discussion of him, or what he did must be coucher in unambigous terms that you condemn all of his beliefs
>Pay no attention to the berlin olympics, or life expectancy, or any health records
>don't associate by race or ethnicity, the reason you are unhappy is because you have not tied your room
>No, every single European intellectual, philosopher, genius, writer and statesmab was wrong about them, they are our closest ally

[Anonymous No.21051639]

>>21050246
>desu I couldn't care less about political or moral stances regarding that specific time frame.
Then you don't think about the world at hand and are a fencesitter.

[Anonymous No.21051665]

>>21050613
>Hitler by Ian Kershaw reads like pure farce -- a more accurate picture of the third Reich in my opinion.
Wait so is it accurate or a farce?

[Anonymous No.21051676]

>>21049642
Charisma is very real, retard, and people can have wildly different levels of it. Maybe you're coping because you don't have any.

[Anonymous No.21051677]

>>21050686
They lost lmao

[Anonymous No.21051872]

>>21051574
>utterly conquered and ruined
wow might of national socialism, i kneel…

[Anonymous No.21051981]

>>21051872
Again, attacked on all fronts by the rest of the world. Any nation would fall. The sheer fact they made it close is more than convincing that there's something to NatSoc. A proper economy/government doesn't suddenly mean you're invincible. Natural disasters are still disasters, other nations still have independent objectives and war is war. Now factor in Germany's prior economic ruin, they're size and population. Too make such a turnaround is nothing but astounding. If a country the size of Canada went NatSoc they'd conquer the world in a year.

[Anonymous No.21051994]

>ctrl+f
>august kubizek
>0 results

Not necessarily unbiased, but certainly the least political book on Hitler from a first hand source. Typical 4chan spergs will find young Hitler uncannily relatable.

[Anonymous No.21052008]

>>21051994
A ton of excerpts from it are posted here if anyone's curious
>>/lit/thread/S19335816

[Anonymous No.21052015]

>>21051981
Retard, the Nazis started the war on all fronts

[Anonymous No.21052021]

>>21051676

[Anonymous No.21052033]

>>21051981
>If a country the size of Canada went NatSoc they'd conquer the world in a year.

[Anonymous No.21052036]

>>21051981
>they're size and population

[Anonymous No.21052045]

>>21051981
>they made it close

[Anonymous No.21052055]

>>21052015
Nazis "started" the war by refusing the 24/7 IV drip of Jewish/Anglo-American capital, de facto declaring war on the global hegemony by breaking the bondage of interest
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

The Western powers' plans for Germany's dismemberment after the war, which they halted only because the Soviet golem they created became stronger and more autonomous than they had anticipated (because they are stupid), show what they intended for Germany all along, vassalization and parcelization into "post-national" bits that can be easily manipulated by degrading people into retards so they are incapable of exercising their now meaningless democratic rights to any effect, and in the rare instances where they actually do try to vote their way out of the shit you've mired them in, swamp them in immigrants or justify some COVID lockdown shit to destroy them economically and throw them into disarray

The Anglo-American (and international Jewish) establishment wants the entire world to be a mix of the EU nanny meta-government and the CCP, soft control most of the time with the ability to do hard control in trumped-up "emergencies"

The Axis powers simply saw this world order coming and tried to create another

[Anonymous No.21052072]

>>21049564
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich By Shirer isn’t specifically about Hitler but it’s definitely one of the less biased accounts, not bias-free but better than most alternatives

[Anonymous No.21052083]

>>21049564
Hitler’s War by David Irving of course

[Anonymous No.21052089]

>>21049693
>that the Weimar was degenerate
>Not objective
The normalization of non-heterosexual behaviors in the mind of the public is by definition degenerate. Anything that would lead to the end of a society if it were adopted by 100% of the population is by definition degenerate.

[Anonymous No.21052100]

>>21052021
Of all the historical figures there are to meet, I would truly enjoy seeing Codreanu at his peak, during his university days.

[Anonymous No.21052102]

>>21052072
>The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
>it’s definitely one of the less biased accounts
Kek, he uses the homosexuality smear like 5 times in the first fifty pages.

[Anonymous No.21052107]

>>21052102
It is a thousand pages long, anon.

[Anonymous No.21052108]

>>21051981
Napoleonic France did it far better than the third reich

[Anonymous No.21052113]

>>21049693
>> The weimar was degenerate.
>Not objective
>Berlin transformed itself into the Babel of the world. Germans brought to perversion all their vehemence and love of system. Made-up boys with artificial waistlines promenaded along the Kurfustendamm. Even ancient Rome had not known orgies like the Berlin transvestite balls, where hundreds of men in women's clothes, and women in men's clothes, danced under the benevolent eyes of the police. Amid the general collapse of values, a kind of insanity took hold of precisely those middle class circles which had been unshakeable in their order. Young ladies proudly boasted that they were perverted: to be suspected of virginity at 16 would have been a disgrace in every school in Berlin.
- Stefan Zweig

[Anonymous No.21052120]

>>21052055
Germany invaded Poland and the British declared war on Germany. That's how the fucking war started.
The war between the Nazis and the Soviets started when Germany invaded The USSR.
You're absolutely delusional if you're trying to argue otherwise, these are the facts.

[Anonymous No.21052122]

>>21052107
Not him he includes moral judgments of their actions throughout, it’s a work of editorial journalism more than a historical text (Which is perfectly fine by the way, the topic of The Third Reich is so inflammatory that the only way to get a truly well rounded picture of it is to read many sources, not the least of which should be firsthand journalistic accounts like Shirer’s)

[Anonymous No.21052124]

>>21052113
Man
Modern western society makes Weimar Germany look like high civilisation

[Anonymous No.21052125]

>>21049564
>ctrl+f "dalton"
>0 results
Figures. OP thomas dalton translation has the spice.

[Anonymous No.21052137]

>>21052120
Geopolitics isn't a video game where nations leave eachother alone until they randomly decide not to anymore, WW1-WW2 was one contiguous war with a ceasefire in the middle. The war was always between two radically incommensurate worldviews. There is no victory condition for the Anglo-American/Jewish bloc other than total reduction of the entire world to vassal status under its soft power projection. Why do you think Britain cared about Poland? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Because geopolitics had dictated intervention to ensure a balance of power that couldn't threaten Britain on the continent for almost 300 years.

France was successfully absorbed into the system and given vassal status after the fall of Napoleon's attempted continental system vs. Britain's system of sea-based universal force projection. Germany was the next contender and had to be crushed. All Germans knew this, and knew they also had no choice but to assume the leadership role it put them in vis-a-vis the lesser continental powers. That's why Germany didn't crush or enslave France, but actually went around propping up other nations in a fascist proto-federal system.

[Anonymous No.21052155]

>>21052102
>>21052122

Does he say that gays in society caused the National-Socialists to be more accepted by the general population?

[Anonymous No.21052156]

>>21052137
You write too much bullshit. They were not at war until they were at war. Germany started the war on both sides (east and west). This is a matter of an historical truth.
I'm only responding this last time because I've made my point for the benefit of the unwary.

[Anonymous No.21052162]

>>21052137
Based strategic long view analyser

[Anonymous No.21052213]

>>21052162
Ignore that there was a peace treaty signed and enjoy the taste of that anons dick in your mouth, fag

[Anonymous No.21052229]

>>21052213
>Don't use logic and a grander view when examining one of the most complicated times in human history

[Anonymous No.21052285]

>>21052055
You're well informed. I've got books on the Holocaust but I need more on understanding WW2 at large

[Anonymous No.21052293]

>>21052229
It's illogical to acknowledge that there was a peace treaty which ended a war and then make a subsequent claim that the war never ended.
You should learn what logic is before you use it in a sentence.

[Anonymous No.21052305]

>>21049564
>I'm looking for an actually unbiased book about this individual.
Wait for a book written 300 years from now, then. Its impossible to view Hitler as anything but hero or villain when we live in the world order he was trying to destroy. Anyone who claims to do so is either pretending or has an embarrassingly shallow understanding of what the nazis and WW2 were about

[Anonymous No.21052306]

>>21052107
>A tough, ruthless, driving man – albeit, like
so many of the early Nazis, a homosexual
>The confused locksmith Drexler provided the kernel, the drunken poet Eckart some of the ”spiritual” foundation, the economic crank Feder what passed as an ideology, the homosexual Roehm the support of the Army and the war veterans, but it was now the former tramp, Adolf Hitler
>Murderers, pimps, homosexual perverts, drug addicts or just plain rowdies were all the same to him if they served his purposes.
>But the brown-shirted S.A. never became much more than a motley mob of brawlers. Many of its top leaders, beginning with its chief, Roehm, were notorious homosexual perverts.
>Lieutenant Edmund Heines, who led the Munich S.A., was not only a homosexual but a convicted murderer.
>These two and dozens of others quarreled and feuded as only men of unnatural sexual inclinations, with their peculiar jealousies, can.
>As we have seen, a conglomeration of pimps, murderers, homosexuals, alcoholics and blackmailers flocked to the party as if to a natural haven. Hitler did not care, as long as they were useful to him.
>Moreover, the generals were shocked by the tales, now beginning to receive wide circulation, of the corruption and debauchery of the homosexual clique...rearmament was too serious and difficult a business to permit the participation of peculators, drunkards and homosexuals
>Karl Ernst, a former hotel bellhop and ex-bouncer in a cafe frequented by homosexuals
>the S.A. Obergruppenfuehrer of Silesia, a convicted murderer, a notorious homosexual
with a girlish face on the brawny body of a piano mover, was in bed with a young man
>Fritsch had been guilty of homosexual offenses
>His chief weakness, it developed, had been spying on homosexuals and then blackmailing them.
>caught in a homosexual offense in a dark alley near the Potsdam railroad station in Berlin with an underworld character by the name of ”Bavarian Joe.”
Yeah. What a great and unbias account.

[Anonymous No.21052314]

>>21052107
>A tough, ruthless, driving man – albeit, like so many of the early Nazis, a homosexual
>The confused locksmith Drexler provided the kernel, the drunken poet Eckart some of the ”spiritual” foundation, the economic crank Feder what passed as an ideology, the homosexual Roehm the support of the Army and the war veterans, but it was now the former tramp, Adolf Hitler
>Murderers, pimps, homosexual perverts, drug addicts or just plain rowdies were all the same to him if they served his purposes.
>But the brown-shirted S.A. never became much more than a motley mob of brawlers. Many of its top leaders, beginning with its chief, Roehm, were notorious homosexual perverts.
>Lieutenant Edmund Heines, who led the Munich S.A., was not only a homosexual but a convicted murderer.
>These two and dozens of others quarreled and feuded as only men of unnatural sexual inclinations, with their peculiar jealousies, can.
>As we have seen, a conglomeration of pimps, murderers, homosexuals, alcoholics and blackmailers flocked to the party as if to a natural haven. Hitler did not care, as long as they were useful to him.
>Moreover, the generals were shocked by the tales, now beginning to receive wide circulation, of the corruption and debauchery of the homosexual clique...rearmament was too serious and difficult a business to permit the participation of peculators, drunkards and homosexuals
>Karl Ernst, a former hotel bellhop and ex-bouncer in a cafe frequented by homosexuals
>the S.A. Obergruppenfuehrer of Silesia, a convicted murderer, a notorious homosexual with a girlish face on the brawny body of a piano mover, was in bed with a young man
>Fritsch had been guilty of homosexual offenses
>His chief weakness, it developed, had been spying on homosexuals and then blackmailing them.
>caught in a homosexual offense in a dark alley near the Potsdam railroad station in Berlin with an underworld character by the name of ”Bavarian Joe.”
Yeah. What a great and unbias account. No agenda to see here.

[Anonymous No.21052315]

>>21051665
Seriously, what do you mean when you said that?

[Anonymous No.21052326]

>>21052305
>the world order he was trying to destroy
utter wank

[Anonymous No.21052335]

>>21052293
How many legs does a typical dog have if we also count its tail as a leg?
The answer is still 4. This is because even if we call something one thing, it doesn't actually mean it is.
When you say "peace treaty" do you really know what that entailed for the parties involved? Do you actually know what treaties are? Anyone with a straight eye could see another world war would break out shortly after the first. Woodrow Wilson predicted it, heaps of other country officials did too.

[Anonymous No.21052348]

>>21052314
>”Bavarian Joe.”
Kek.

[Anonymous No.21052349]

>>21052326
>i know he literally said so but uh he was a gay meth addict with one testicle so you can't take him at face value!!!!
your soul is utter wank, nigger

[Anonymous No.21052350]

>>21052314
This guy would be welcomed here for the sheer autism of writing a 1000 pages of calling Nazis gay.

[Anonymous No.21052382]

>>21052305
>Congratulations kike
>You managed to survive this camp
>You graduate to the next one
>If you survive that you will be sent to a more difficult one
>If you survive the final boss camp you will be free
>Nobody has done that
>gott im himmel

[Anonymous No.21052385]

>>21052350
>And yet Hitler had known all along, from the earliest days of the party, that a large number of his closest and most important followers were sexual perverts and convicted murderers. It was common talk, for instance, that Heines used to send S.A. men scouring all over Germany to find him suitable male lovers. These things Hitler had not only tolerated but defended
The book was written very early so most of the propaganda smearing the Nazis was still centered around calling them homos/thugs.

[Anonymous No.21052397]

>>21049564
>unbiased
So you just want a pro-Hitler book

[Anonymous No.21052477]

>>21052335
This idiot considers 21 years later as shortly after. You shouldn't even be arguing about this it's ridiculous

[Anonymous No.21052490]

>>21052213
>a peace treaty signed
like one between a slave and a master, right?

[Anonymous No.21052499]

>>21052477
not that anon but why is peloponnesian war considered a single war when it was really 3 seperate wars with periods of peace in-between?

[Anonymous No.21052505]

>>21052477
>[ ] Convince opponent of your viewpoint
>[x] Tell your opponent he is simply not allowed to hold his viewpoint
I'm starting to see why you are incapable of understanding how a demoralizing peace treaty can be forced upon an enemy that doesn't really accept it

[Anonymous No.21052506]

>>21052382
When you actually do give them a source they all of the sudden don’t know how to read

[Anonymous No.21052547]

>>21052499
Why aren't the Punic Wars, or the Indian Wars, or the Napoleonic Wars respectively considered as one war each?
Why is the Thirty Years War not counted as a bunch of seperate wars?
In the Peloponnese War the belligerents were constant and there was still fighting during the peace period which was observed by Sparta and Athens, mostly Spartan allies attacking Athenian interests and the first peace lasted 6 years not 21.

It could be, and has been, argued also that Germany under Nazism was not the same nation as Imperial Germany. Even in this thread there are examples of this.

[Anonymous No.21052558]

>>21052505
It's simply not true that WW1 and WW2 aren't seperate wars though. He can believe what he wants, I don't give a fuck but if I read some inaccurate shit I'm within my rights as a /lit/izen to call it out.
If you retards don't want robust debate and fact checking don't stick your heads up on my board.

[Anonymous No.21052593]

>>21052547
It should be noted there were numerous truces and stalemates in the Peloponnesian War and it is conventionally periodized into phases (Archidamian and Ionian Wars, Sicilian Expedition), also that isn't even counting the First Peloponnesian War, part of the Pentecontaetia which is a term specifically used to denote the ambiguity of a conflict that spanned continuous overlapping peace treaties and reignitions of conflict

The 30 Years' War and 80 Years' War are good examples of there being so many overlapping interests and conflicts that there is no point in singling out specific conflicts unless you're a specialist. The same is true of the Italian Wars which are an even better example of a persistent rivalry between great powers who both knew absolutely that a neutral balance of power was impossible - everyone in Europe was terrified of Habsburg encirclements right into the 18th century and British power policies on the continent are already visible in this time because of this, with Henry allying with Francis and then with Charles again depending on the situation.

The major wars of the 18th century nobody really talks about much because they were so confusing were again fought mainly over fears of Habsburg encirclement, particularly it was in France's vital interest not to allow this. But then everyone also got terrified when France almost controlled Spain, and this is the birth of true and fully self-conscious and avowed British policy of balance of power maintenance on the continent. Napoleon wasn't a problem because he wanted a strong France, he was a problem because he was going to create a continental land system that would stand opposed to the British maritime one. This is why people like Carl Schmitt and now Dugin are obsessed with Mahan's sea and land power thing, because it's a perennial problem. Also look at Wallerstein's great power dynamics theory, which he mostly stole from Ranke's theory of great power politics.

[Anonymous No.21052597]

>>21052593

Also the 18th century was a shitshow in the East. Prussia waged wars with continuous geostrategic objectives over decades and generations. Russia has always wanted a sphere of influence and to turn its vulnerable plains and steppe frontiers into buffer zones, and everybody has known that all of Russia's war efforts for over two centuries were aimed at securing these, wars a hundred or two hundred years apart would have the same geostrategic aims. Not to mention the famed warm water ports issue, or the Dardanelles and Black Sea as mare nostrum issue, both perennial issues for Russia.

Long term strategy is the norm in all warfare. Treitschke and Bulow knew what the stakes were when they argued for a German navy and colonial policy just as the Nazis knew the stakes when they called for a new Drang nach Osten, because they knew at the end of the day you have two options to feed yourself and remain independent: submit to British sea power and commerce and be forever vulnerable, or Option Omega: No Brits Allowed Special Continental Playzone. Same EXACT strategy the Japanese had in the East with the Prosperity Sphere. Brits and Americans fuck off. Same EXACT strategy as the Monroe Doctrine btw.

>>21052558
Separate according to what, some magical platonic definition based on God keeping score on the ethereal plane of whether Germany no cb'ed without a casus belli? Fine, have your magic platonic definitions of what a war is, it's meaningless anyway since the larger point is that Germany was in a Athens/Sparta Pentecontaetia or Habsburg vs. Valois analogous situation continuously from the 1880s to the 1940s.

[Anonymous No.21052602]

>>21052593
>>21052597
Forgot another obvious example, The Hundred Years' War. Or the Crusades in the actual Holy Land where it was continuous warfare with so many micro-wars and constant skirmishing that it's impossible to call singular wars, so instead we just focus on the major surges of new troops coming from Europe to resupply the crusader garrison state in the Levant. The same goes for the constant state of war in the Northern Crusader states.

[Anonymous No.21053098]

>>21052008
Wtf I just cried for Hitler

[Anonymous No.21053152]

>nooo you can't just say the nazis were evil and terrible that's le bias!
Closest thing to pure evil this world has ever seen. It's just a massive disservice to claim they were just crazy or stupid. The party leaders were well read intellectuals, which makes it even more important that this era be studied.

[Anonymous No.21053162]

>>21053152
Adorno was right about Nietzsche and the Nazis when he said that when science became the new mythology, even the most gruesome barbarism became justifiable. In the eyes of the enlightenment, the Nazis were right, or at least not wrong

[Anonymous No.21053168]

>>21053162
>gruesome barbarism
Like what?

[Anonymous No.21053236]

>>21049564
Irving is what you're looking for, ignore everything else ITT

[Anonymous No.21053240]

>>21053168
Like defending yourself from Jews

[Anonymous No.21053248]

chunguses out in full force

[Anonymous No.21053262]

>>21053168
Being homophobe

[Anonymous No.21053280]

>>21053168
Dude, didn't you know that nazis like, organized doberman dog sex shows with children in camps?
And also vivisected pregnant women to swap fetuses and rearrange their limbs. It's a totally true testimony and not a deranged jewish masochistic fantasy

[Anonymous No.21053281]

>>21053262
Fake quote, read the laws

[Anonymous No.21053291]

>>21049693
>Common knowledge, even in Germany. You forgot to mention though how it was only ~33% of the votes if I remember correctly, which they turned into a dictatorship after the Reichstagsbrand
Wasn't this an earlier election? Didn't they get something like 40% in -33? Not sure just asking.
>Not true, Germany was already on its way out of the Great Depression before Hitler was elected
Proof? I don't see how Weimar could have fixed German economy while still cucking itself to the treaty of Versailles.
>Not objective
Yes it is.
>Not socialism. First thing the Nazis did was privatize the German steel industry. There is even a quote from hitler himself how they weren’t socialist, though I can’t be bothered to look it up. Also I didn’t work as you can hopefully tell from history.
Holy kek the privatization meme. The industries were in the hands of people who were loyal to the party and privatized only on paper. This is like saying that the Chinese central bank is private even though its board is filled with party members. Nazis weren't Socialist only if you care about de jure circle jerk. If you care about practical facts, they were. Germany lost because everyone on the continent plus America wanted it in ruins. Was betraying the Soviets in favor of trying to get a peace with Anglos worth it? Idk, the Soviets had some plans of invading Europe but would it have happened, who knows.
>All in all, gay /pol/ thread, go be a faggot somewhere else
"Boohoo mommyyy people on the internet are having a discussion about a topic I don't like, they must be like this caricature I have constructed in my head"
I'm not even a Hitler fan nor do I go to pol but kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.21053295]

>>21049564
>unbiased
kek
>>21049595
this

[Anonymous No.21053319]

>>21053291
> When Strasser argues for “revolutionary socialism,” Hitler dismisses the idea, arguing that workers are too simple to ever understand socialism:

>“Your socialism is Marxism pure and simple. You see, the great mass of workers only wants bread and circuses. Ideas are not accessible to them and we cannot hope to win them over. We attach ourselves to the fringe, the race of lords, which did not grow through a miserabilist doctrine and knows by the virtue of its own character that it is called to rule, and rule without weakness over the masses of beings.”
>And when Strasser calls for the return of 41 percent of private property to the state and dismisses the role of private property in an industrialized economy, Hitler tells him that will not only ruin “the entire nation” but also “end all progress of humanity.”

>In fact, Hitler dismisses even the idea of challenging the status of capitalism, telling Strasser that his socialism is actually Marxism and making the argument that powerful businessmen were powerful because they were evolutionarily superior to their employees. Thus, Hitler argues, a “workers council” taking charge of a company would only get in the way.

>“Our great heads of industry are not concerned with the accumulation of wealth and the good life, rather they are concerned with responsibility and power. They have acquired this right by natural selection: they are members of the higher race. But you would surround them with a council of incompetents, who have no notion of anything. No economic leader can accept that.”
>Strasser then asks him directly what he would do with powerful steel and arms manufacturer Krupp, known today as ThyssenKrupp. Would Hitler permit the company to stay as big and powerful as it was in 1930?

>“Of course. Do you think I’m stupid enough to destroy the economy? The state will only intervene if people do not act in the interest of the nation. There is no need for dispossession or participation in all the decisions. The state will intervene strongly when it must, pushed by superior motives, without regards to particular interests.”
Going by that logic, you could even call America socialist

[Anonymous No.21053348]

>>21052008
I'm literally Hitler.

[Anonymous No.21053355]

>>21053348
Should have noticed something was wrong when I went into art school.

[Anonymous No.21053369]

>>21053319
>The state will only intervene if people do not act in the interest of the nation.
When the state defines "the interest of the nation" it's essentially socialism.

[Anonymous No.21053383]

>>21053369
Nope, that’s fascism

[Anonymous No.21053388]

>>21053383
Fascism sounds a lot like socialism. One where the state just takes it and fascism where the state takes it in all but name.

[Anonymous No.21053393]

>>21052008
If there was any doubt Hitler had the tism...

[Anonymous No.21053398]

>>21053388
Not really. As you can see in the quote, Hitler explicitly says that he wasn’t Marxist, and that he just slapped the name socialism on his version of fascism. Of course, there were versions of socialism before Marx, but no one would use anyone but Marx today as a reference on what socialism is, and that is democratically owned means of production. It’s the commonly agreed upon definition.
Everything else boils down to „hurr but I could call a chair a table“, or, as the chuds would probably much rather get as an analogy, cutting your dick off and calling yourself a woman

[Anonymous No.21053423]

>>21053398
>democratically owned means of production
By this definition socialism never occured in Russia. Socialism is just fascism in disguise and that makes Hitler socialist.

[Anonymous No.21053429]

>>21053423
> By this definition socialism never occured in Russia.
It did, for the short period of time Lenin was in power
And again, it’s not, you’re using tranny logic

[Anonymous No.21053436]

>>21049768
https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-its-bad-to-have-high-gdp/

[Anonymous No.21053444]

>>21053429
What about Lenin's state was democratic?

[Anonymous No.21053511]

>>21053444
It seems to me "real socialism has never been tried" because it's impossible to exist without being fascism

[Anonymous No.21053538]

>>21053444
>The new socialist government set up in Russia after the victory of the revolution was composed of mass organizations called Soviets, councils democratically elected by workers, peasants and soldiers. The Soviets arose spontaneously in 1905 during a democratic uprising, but were suppressed when that revolution failed. Soviets re-emerged in 1917 as the popular struggle intensified.
>Lenin described the Soviets as the institutions developed by the Russian Revolution which best represented the interests of the oppressed. He identified some of the key features of the Soviets: they were an armed force of workers and peasants; they provided an intimate bond with the people; their personnel were elected and subject to recall at any time; and they helped train and educate the oppressed, among other features.[5]
>One of the key functions of the socialist government, in Lenin’s view, was guaranteeing democracy for the working people. Under capitalism, government existed to ensure the bourgeoisie’s right to make profits. As Lenin put it, “Even in the most democratic bourgeois republics, [the people,] while possessing equal rights by law, have in fact been debarred by thousands of devices and subterfuges from participation in political life and enjoyment of democratic rights and liberties.”[6]
>Under socialism, the government was to defend working people’s rights to a decent standard of living and a life free from exploitation. The socialist government should end the oppression of minority nationalities and women. Working people should rule society in their own interests.
It’s the biggest tragedy in history that Lenin died in 24, where the country was still in the state of civil war. The second biggest tragedy was that the violent moron Stalin took his place

[Anonymous No.21053554]

>>21053538
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2020/04/22/lenin-numbers-data-and-images-of-the-crimes-of-the-first-communist-dictator/
Literally worse than hitler.
>kills political opposition
>"See everyone voted for their soviets of choice!"

[Anonymous No.21053566]

>>21053554
Just like Hitler was fascist about the interests of the bation, Lenin was fascist about the interests of his revolution ('his' idealized nation)

[Anonymous No.21053568]

>>21053566
Socialism is just fascism because it has never actually been established as anything other than that. By that metric, Hitler was socialist because either "real socialism has never been tried" or hitler actually did it successfully.

[Anonymous No.21053572]

>>21053554
>killed 20 million Christians
Yeah sure that just killed 16% of their population like that.
>oh no how dare they kill their opposition in a war
?
Also
>not a single source in that entire article
I can also just make up numbers. Did you know that Hitler sucked ONE MILLION DICKS A DAY

[Anonymous No.21053853]

I'm interested in Nazi opinions on economics and technology if anyone has recommendations for those.

[Anonymous No.21053878]

>>21053853
In regard to economics, the influence of Ferdinand Tonnies in particular. In regard to technology, anything.

[Anonymous No.21053890]

>>21051639
>Nooooo, you are not allowed to be objective and indifferent to nazis.
I've just transcended your emotional hickup. I can appreciate the time period in the same way I do Napoleon, Julian, and Sulla.

[Anonymous No.21054032]

>>21053890
You don't seem to understand that's not allowed in the Post-WW2 moral consensus. Christianity is fake, but Hitler was the Devil and the Nazis were demons.

[Anonymous No.21054042]

>>21049707
what a dork

[Anonymous No.21054087]

>>21050246
>unbiased book
>title literally states we're going to look beyond how evil and tyrannical he was

[Anonymous No.21054093]

>>21054032
>noooooo how dare they criticize a murderous dictator! /pol/ says he was baaaaased
Follow your leader and kys

[Anonymous No.21054114]

>>21054093
> You have to believe Hitler was literally Satan

[Anonymous No.21054151]

>>21053568
What are you trying to say here? Is your argument its socialism because it says socialism and muh gubmint?

[Anonymous No.21054192]

>>21053853
https://fascio.substack.com/p/corporatism-an-introduction-to-fascist

[Anonymous No.21054205]

>>21051179
This is just pure copium. We do not live in Wiemar Germany. Nothing is going to crush it like the Nazis did.

[Anonymous No.21054214]

>>21053853
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

https://counter-currents.com/2012/11/two-volumes-by-gottfried-feder/

https://counter-currents.com/2013/03/othmar-spann-a-catholic-radical-traditionalist/

https://counter-currents.com/2013/02/hans-freyer-the-quest-for-collective-meaning/

[Anonymous No.21054221]

>>21054205
BLM 2.0 + LA Riots of 1992 + government and media promoting and allowing it because they think they'll benefit from clamping down on the chaos + a single major crisis like a global recession or energy crisis or supply chain crisis or some weather shit or a major shift in the global order causing economic disruptions and fluctuations = anything goes

[Anonymous No.21054268]

>>21054221
You're forgetting that white people are going to become a minority soon, putting to rest any actual resistance to bed forever. Your future is Brazil. It is irreversible.

[Anonymous No.21054284]

>>21054192
Nazi, not Fascist.

[Anonymous No.21054287]

>>21054268
Good, it will pressurize them and make them realize their situation

[Anonymous No.21054310]

>>21054287
White isn't a homogenic group no matter how many times you say it or how much you want to will it into being, it simply is not

[Anonymous No.21054312]

>>21054284
it’s both>>21054268

[Anonymous No.21054317]

>>21054205
Yes, yes it is man. They said the same thing. We are not, nor will ever be, at the cusp of some liberal utopia wherein all problems will be solved.

Instead what will happen, was always happens, what is happening now is the sheer corruption, lies, cheating, stealing, violence, ineptitude and gross negligence has destroyed the publics faith in the democratic model, in liberalism. So right we are between that miserable period where a charismatic leader appears with an ever expanding group of hard men and the violent readjustment of society begins.

Remember, it is always the journalists, the pornographers, the speculators, the bankers, the homosexuals, the profiteers, the parlimentarians, the critics and the gross land owners that hang first, regardless of of whom takes over. With twitter and facebook we have the easiest means ever to identify those groups. And guess what chosen people are overrepresented in all of them?

[Anonymous No.21054328]

>>21054317
Nice larp

[Anonymous No.21054330]

>>21054317
Every entity with power is liberal, and it isn't in just one country, it's global. Not even a national revolution would take it down, it would need to be a massive global revolution. You'd need to go against: all governments, businesses, institutions, and half the people who believe in liberalism. It's truly unbeatable. That Japanese cunt was right when he said we are at the end of history. Liberal democracy is the slow death of humanity. Nothing will replace it.

[Anonymous No.21054336]

>>21054330
It's not actually global

[Anonymous No.21054346]

>>21054330
That has been said every single time before a new power structure arises. It does not arise out of it but rivals it and subsumes it.

[Anonymous No.21054351]

>>21054114
Name one Hitler biography that calls Hitler literal Satan

[Anonymous No.21054355]

>>21054346
And then loses the only war it ever fought lol

[Anonymous No.21054364]

>>21054355
The war for our hearts.

[Anonymous No.21054388]

>>21054310
Neither are blacks, groups have a way of galvanizing eachother into corporate identities

[Anonymous No.21054475]

>>21054364
Exactly, which is why my heart tells me radical centrism is the only eternal truth
Democracy or death

[Anonymous No.21054501]

>>21054475
>Democracy or death
Why not both? Vote in your current election, have everything you value stolen, destroyed, subverted and rented back to you.

National-Socialism is the only way to preserve what you are and what you love.

[Anonymous No.21054533]

>>21049693
It was a multiparty system faggit even the current German Government doesn’t have a majority.

[Anonymous No.21054734]

>>21054501
Here's the problem: National Socialism foolishly elevated racial affinity to the highest concern of politics and in doing so discredited right-wing ideology entirely. There is a space between "race doesn't matter" and "my race has to subjugate the inferior races", but the right won't inhabit it because it's too easily associated with the last bit.

[Anonymous No.21054742]

>>21054351
This whole conversation is going over your head.

[Anonymous No.21054810]

>>21054734
>National Socialism foolishly elevated racial affinity to the highest concern of politics and in doing so discredited right-wing ideology entirely.

Why does it discredit right-wing ideology entirely?
What other principles besides blood & soil shouls guide society?
What other right-wing ideology is there?
Why is it foolish to care about your ethnic background and want to preserve it?

[Anonymous No.21054814]

>>21049564
All books are biased

[Anonymous No.21054821]

>>21052156

You're just stupid. Get the fuck out with your high school level of history.

[Anonymous No.21054824]

>>21049850
You're writing word salad.

[Anonymous No.21054831]

>>21054821
You dropped out of high school and got redpilled on the anglo-joooo block?

[Anonymous No.21054846]

>>21054734
Brown Israeli hands typed this.

[Anonymous No.21054868]

>>21054810
1. The post-war consensus is really anti-Nazism (and anti-Fascism, but especially anti-Nazism). It was clever to group the two together and label it broadly "Fascism". Woke ideology can be described as Nazism turned on its head.
2. I am not sure, but it probably can't be predicated on blood and soil alone and how the Nazi program adhered to these in the first place is worth questioning.
3. None. But at some point, people will have to move beyond ideology anyway. The right is stuck in ideology.
4. It's probably not. Such affinities are probably perfectly natural in any healthy society. They just shouldn't be elevated to primary political concerns.

[Anonymous No.21054901]

>>21054734
The race doctrine of National Socialism was vulgar and few intelligent National Socialists actually held it. Schmitt, Sombart, and Heidegger didn't for example. The Italian Fascists didn't like it and had a more gentle and nuanced view of great cultures. Evola tried to bridge the gap between the two by explaining in Synthesis of the Doctrine of Race that the Nazi manifestation of great culture theory was, at some levels and because of historical contingencies, crass biologizing racialism. But that this didn't negate its greatness.

The real ur concept of Nazism was simply "the People," Volk: the Volksgemeinschaft (people's community), Volkischness, Volkstum (untranslateable). All Germans were natural volkisch thinkers, and volkischness is a form of socialism, it IS national socialism. It is accidental that the ideologically heterogeneous Nazi party leaned into the biological aspects so heavily, thanks to the influence of people like Rosenberg.

VERY few ordinary educated Germans were weirdo racist skull-measurers or obsessed with Jewish blood %'s. Nobody was genocidal, most were just like people today except a lot better educated and generally more cultured. It's not 500 years ago. Not even most average NSDAP members were race obsessed, except crass ones who admittedly became much better better when they were smoothed out into the warrior-monk aristocracy of the SS. At that point, "Aryanism" simply becomes Indo-Europeanism, with equal space allowed for mystical Christian and neo-pagan conceptions of what it means to be European.

This is what Evola meant when he said, look, volkischness, national socialism, fascism, all these are naturally tendencies and they're going to manifest whether you like it or not. But that doesn't mean they won't manifest with local flavor. Just like at the Orthodox mystical nationalism in Romania. Who are we to tell the Romanians what their national essence is, or say shit like "FASCISM ISN'T RELIGIOUS, STOP THAT?" The whole point of fascism is, let people be sovereign in their own land.

>but land ownership is arbitrary!
Yes sure, in some small way everything is arbitrary. But just as there are differences between us and chimpanzees, and larger differences between us and butterflies, yet we are all still related through evolution, there are differences between cultures and peoples. And not only is this true, it's a good and beautiful thing. However I will be the first to agree that cartoonish phrenological racism and mass murdering civilians is ugly, and even more ugly for being simply unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.21054910]

>>21049850
>Begs a nebulous semantical argument that will devolve into attempts to monopolize parameters in which tautological assertions carry weight rather than individual arguments.
It's funny but/lit/ is the only board you'll ever see pseud word salad garbage like this. You definitely have to be a sociology or gender theory or english lit student or similar who failed at math in high school to value writing like this.

[Anonymous No.21054931]

>>21054910
>predicts faggot won't be able to respond with anything other than "WORD SALAD"
>two responses and it's all they could come up with
Sorry you're intimidated by big words.

[Anonymous No.21054942]

>>21054868
>1. The post-war consensus is really anti-Nazism (and anti-Fascism, but especially anti-Nazism). It was clever to group the two together and label it broadly "Fascism". Woke ideology can be described as Nazism turned on its head.
Not at all. The roots of wokeness and post modernism is in Marxism, all intersectionality comes from that very doctrine. Fascism and its more successful offshoot National-Socialism began as a rejection of that.

>2. I am not sure, but it probably can't be predicated on blood and soil alone and how the Nazi program adhered to these in the first place is worth questioning.
Congratulations, you lost your culture, heritage and history. A Blood & Soil philosophy is the only means to secure a viable nation-state, Liberalism, Libertarianism and Leftism in general preclude this.

>3. None. But at some point, people will have to move beyond ideology anyway. The right is stuck in ideology.
Everybody has an ideology, the difference is National-Socialism entails a world-view wherein the goal is continuous and not merely a 5 year plan where fully automated gay space communism can be established where all our needs will be filled. NS incorperates real materialistic conditions in to its view. The struggle, hardship, competition, biological urges like family and agression and beauty all form cornerstones to the ideology. Unlike others, Left and Right, which dictate how things should be, not how they are.

>4. It's probably not. Such affinities are probably perfectly natural in any healthy society. They just shouldn't be elevated to primary political concerns
They are the most natural and they are the best way to unify a people. Protection and improvement of land ans people, Blood & Soil should be the primary concerns and First Principles of any government because that is the most important apects of life and it is from these two that all other concerns stem from.

[Anonymous No.21054943]

>>21054901
None of the people you mentioned were Nazi leadership, the likes of which may or may not have believed in the doctrine, but that doesn't really matter. It doesn't even matter that these ideas were floating around Bavaria before Hitler ever joined the Nazi party. As a political program, Nazism prescribed racial struggle and Aryanism as a state religion to disastrous results, not least among them the fact that they lost. The extreme distaste for the ideology, the mass slaughter it caused, and it's failures on the battlefield that actually matters, history, is what's given us the climate we have now. I think that's just the fact of the matter, so what good does it even do to try to make an apology for this or that Nazi or this or that aspect of Nazism that was more sensible?

[Anonymous No.21054960]

>>21054931
What humanities field exactly do you study?

[Anonymous No.21054965]

>>21054942
It's not. I've read the literature that Woke cultists prescribe. It reads as Nazi propaganda mirrored. They like to co-opt Marxist methods and symbols because Marxism is fundamentally about the liberation of the oppressed.

If you think blood and soil is a viable political program, you're welcome to explain why. These words are just categories. Without explaining how they constitute a program, they can't mean anything to anyone. For the Nazis, they meant German land for Germans...and also Slavic land for Germans.

No, not everyone has an ideology. In fact, I would say political ideology is a historical anomaly.

That doesn't make any sense. If nations are comprised of different races, then they undermine unity.

[Anonymous No.21054992]

>>21054943
>so what good does it even do to try to make an apology for this or that Nazi or this or that aspect of Nazism that was more sensible?
Easy. If Heidegger was actually right:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/YMEmv0gZGKol/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqvsEjFAWh8
then that matters a hell of lot more to people who aren't interested in internet arguments, but in viable alternatives to the nightmare we're living in right now. If Heidegger's version of National Socialism that only partly manifested, for accidental reasons of history, or Ernst Junger's version of volkisch national socialism, or even the national conservatism of the Jung/Papen speech, presents a genuinely viable alternative to modern conditions, then these things are worth studying, not worth sweeping under the rug because "WELL HIMMLER WAS AN ASSHOLE AND SOME NAZIS WERE RETARDS."

We're not interested in defending Nazism's honor pointlessly so that they'll make better Hollywood movies about them. We're interested in the only half-understood and barely unlocked potential of national socialism. If Heidegger and Evola understood that potential better than the leadership themselves did, then we should study what national socialism could have been, as much as what it was.

If what NSDAP-led Germany actually became is a fraction of what it could have become, and even despite this it was already great in many ways, then all the more reason to study how to do it right this time. Why do you think white and European nationalist movements try to purge retarded skinheads who just want to make crass jokes about mass murder? Because those people are worthless just like Himmler was worthless. The core and greatness of National Socialist Germany was the Volk, which would have manifested its volkischness in a form of national socialism regardless.

[Anonymous No.21055012]

>>21054992
Before I watch these videos, I will remind you that Heidegger abandoned Nazism as did Junger and Evola. It's a mistake to think any of these thinkers went to their graves endorsing a variant of Nazism.

[Anonymous No.21055039]

>>21055012
Heidegger is constantly criticized for never repudiating Nazism, Schmitt refused denazification, and Junger only repudiated the NSDAP, and was one of the leading figures calling for a volkisch revolution and building up the cultural energy that led to people voting for the NSDAP anyway. Evola never abandoned fascism, he repeatedly tried to advise the SS on how to make it better and on his trial after the war when they asked him if he was a fascist he said he was "suprafascist," meaning above fascism, because fascism was only a part of what he wanted to help create. Only Junger was ever unambigiously post-fascist, but he also collaborated repeatedly with Heidegger and other fascist fellow travellers after the war.

If you're the same guy who argues in this way in these threads often you have a very specific style of arguing where you just say shit you don't actually know, and rely on your opponent not knowing better. It comes across very dishonest.

>>21054965
All peoples have symbols and belief systems. Fascism is just the recognition of this in itself and the belief that each people should have and keep the symbols peculiar to it. What that means for each people is up for the people to decide, which is the democratic aspect of fascism.

>If nations are comprised of different races, then they undermine unity.
Nations are composed of different individuals yet liberals believe these can come together to form a unity. Unity means nothing if it is not unity IN multiplicity. The whole concept of unity requires difference for it to make any sense in the first place.

[Anonymous No.21055056]

>>21054960
One of my majors is math, faggot.

[Anonymous No.21055122]

Leftists like you always end up hemming and hawing your way into "organic collectives" as the answer to what follows etatism. But the natural organic collective is the ethnos.

[Anonymous No.21055134]

>>21055039
Just because they refused the de-nazification process doesn't mean they were adherents of National Socialism. I've read enough books from these writers to know that all of them grew jaded with National Socialism long before the de-nazification process started. Honestly, I really don't think you've read enough from these authors. Start with Eumeswil and the documentary "Ninety Flown By".

[Anonymous No.21055136]

>>21054965
>It reads as Nazi propaganda mirrored. They like to co-opt Marxist methods and symbols
All propaganda does this, it is the basic principle of propaganda. That is why all WW2 posters look the same and have the same aspects. Your confusing the color of the ink used to write the words with the meaning of the words. Do a closer reading next time.

>If you think blood and soil is a viable political program, you're welcome to explain why. These words are just categories. Without explaining how they constitute a program, they can't mean anything to anyone. For the Nazis, they meant German land for Germans...and also Slavic land for Germans.
If a Government, a State, has as its prime reason for existance the improvement of the native people and their soil, fewer problems arise in society because the point is to address the ills that plague it. In a Capitalist society college is meant to be profitable, the actual benefit to students is worthless as we can see now, but the percieved benefit is very high.

Fast food, goyslop, poison. In no way is this beneficial for anybody in society, yet it it is permitted and encouraged because it is profitable. We know it kills millions, rewires brain chemistry to that of an addict and destroys the body. But, as a society, are content with that because those in power have convinced us. In a society that values Blood (body) and Soil (land) do you think this would be allowed?

>No, not everyone has an ideology. In fact, I would say political ideology is a historical anomaly.
Nit dying of smallpox, dysentry or a spear is also a historical anomaly, as is dying from a diet-induced cardiac event. What is your point here?

>That doesn't make any sense. If nations are comprised of different races, then they undermine unity.
That is my point, native people and only those of similar stock and culture can unify under National-Socialism, the Indian does not belong in Britain anymore than the Britain belongs in India. This is the cause of a great score of social conflict.

[Anonymous No.21055150]

>>21055012
>Junger
He was good friends with Carl Schmitt and visited him frequently.

[Anonymous No.21055159]

>>21052137
This is all true. Everybody needs to study Ernst Nolte

[Anonymous No.21055186]

>>21055134
The first thing anyone in this discussion would know is that Heidegger enthusiastically embraced National Socialism in 1933. The Rectoral Address is famous and infamous and still read as a philosophical statement. There's also the famous "just look at his marvellous hands" exchange with Jaspers.

Schmitt was never enthusiastic about the plebeian aspects of the NSDAP because he was aristocratic and fundamentally realist and not idealist about politics, but he still saw it as a better alternative than liberalism disintegrating itself and giving way to terrorist Bolshevism and chaos. Nobody refused denazification unless they were making a statement. Schmitt described himself as Benito Cereno. If you don't think he was serious about politics and was merely an opportunist, then read his essays on the total state.

[Anonymous No.21055202]

>>21049809
Actually no, that other anon is right. A statement about something specific would read something like:
> This post (in this case > > 21049595) that you made indicates that you're either disingenuous, retarded, or both.
But you wrote
> For all X, when X is such that P(X) is true, Y is true.
which is clearly a generality about all X as it applies to a class of things rather than a specific thing. It's the difference between saying:
> 6 is an even number
and
> All numbers which can be expressed as 2n, where n is some natural number, are even.

[Anonymous No.21055237]

This guy did a surprising unbiased account of Hitler's rise and public relations strategy without resorting to "he was evil because he was evil"

[Anonymous No.21055250]

>>21054992
Good post

[Anonymous No.21055255]

>>21055186
All of these people you mentioned embraced National Socialism, but they all grew disillusioned with it as well. The only one that you mentioned who in my mind remains somewhat debatable, and I emphasize "somewhat" here, is Martin Heidegger. None of this matters anyway. Their opinions aren't prescriptions. Does any of this really matter anyway? These are all just perspectives of the facts rather than the facts themselves.

[Anonymous No.21055304]

>>21049625
I dont think ive heard a single person argue Hitler was not a charismatic speaker. US presidents like JFK even admitted it, same with Stalin. He mightve been the best orator in a public space we've ever seen, or at least ever recorded.

[Anonymous No.21055314]

>>21055304
I've always been interested to know what made him such a powerful speaker but it's never been easy to find.

[Anonymous No.21055322]

>>21049642
I feel like people who use the term "subjective" in reference to Charisma are either intellectually dishonest about the innate human psyche, havent seen an actual charismatic person, arent charismatic, or are all three. Understanding charisma is one of the few universal languages between peoples. You can see it before a person even speaks, in their face, demeanor, posture, etc.

[Anonymous No.21055333]

>>21055202
>Begs a nebulous semantical argument that will devolve into attempts to monopolize parameters in which tautological assertions carry weight rather than individual arguments (>>21049850).
Thanks for proving my point, retard.

[Anonymous No.21055337]

>>21055314
Good delivery combined with revolutionary social reform proposals and "luck" in the cultural backdrop of Germany being completely humiliated after WWI and economically depressed.

[Anonymous No.21055338]

>>21055304
>same with Stalin.

No, not Stalin. Lenin yes, maybe Trotsky, but from all accounts Stalin was uncomfortable in front of crowds and a terrible public speaker.

[Anonymous No.21055344]

>>21055314
Almost as if his speeches and content could still resonate with the averge working man and motivate him to do something about the multicultural nightmare he must endure.

It is no coincidence that his speeches are not widely circulated or popular reading.

[Anonymous No.21055347]

>>21055314
I can translate an excerpt describing Hitler's charisma and enegy, from a book I'm sure no one on /lit/ has ever read or even heard of, by an early Nazi party member who was close to Hitler, if anyone is interested. It will have to be in a few hours though.

[Anonymous No.21055431]

>>21055347
It was not simply the energy it was the content that was emphatically spoken. Yes, the movement was built around Hitler and his incredible oratory skills, but he also had a deep and wide view of society and how to address the ills of a sick nation. This is what you should translate, his public speeches, not the emphatical words of another fawning.

[Anonymous No.21055821]

>>21055136
This.

[Anonymous No.21056135]

>>21050637
>>21050711
Shirer supported the Morgenthau Plan and had an insane hatred of Germans. He's not based

[Anonymous No.21056467]

>>21056135
I dont care, im reading to learn what others left out not because i agree with him. You dumb fuck.

[Anonymous No.21057012]

>>21054965
>It reads as Nazi propaganda mirrored.
All propaganda reads as propaganda, midwit. The shit the allied forces made reads the exact same as the stuff soviets made too. And marxism is inherently tied to the cultural degeneracy linking abolishing private ownership to abolishing privacy, consent and self-autonomy. Every sexologist and "queer/gender theorist" was marxist for a reason.
You yourself cannot provide a better alternative than blood and soil as the primary political concern
>What other principles besides blood & soil shouls guide society?
>2. I am not sure, but it probably can't be predicated on blood and soil alone and how the Nazi program adhered to these in the first place is worth questioning.
All you are saying is
>it just can't be blood and soil!
>why?
>just because okay?

>If you think blood and soil is a viable political program, you're welcome to explain why.
We had, repeatedly before you posted this. Meanwhile you have no reasons as to why it shouldn't or other primary concerns other than "le nazi bad"

[Anonymous No.21057018]

>>21057012
Apologies for accidental spoilers

[Anonymous No.21057054]

>>21054364
is that a white woman in a wheat field??!

[Anonymous No.21057063]

>>21055255
>Does any of this really matter anyway? These are all just perspectives of the facts rather than the facts themselves.
Typical cop out your type makes when you're losing an argument.
>Intrinsic truth is impossible to know! History is obscured etc etc... We can't really know anything for sure!
So far you haven't cited any evidence of this "disillusionment" you claim.

[Anonymous No.21057072]

>>21055431
Source?

[Anonymous No.21057292]

>>21053538
>It’s the biggest tragedy in history that Lenin died in '24
https://qr.ae/pvi6ZP
It sure was...

[Anonymous No.21057295]

>>21050688
second this

[Anonymous No.21057296]

>>21053538
He would've gone capitalist. Real socialism has never been tried or Hitler is the only success.

[Anonymous No.21057391]

>>21049564

Wait 100 years and then we'll see. All the former allied governments too much on the WWII myth to legitimise themselves at present, and thus cannot tolerate unbiased analysis. Whether it's Western media screeching about how every election is 1933 or Z-tards talking about ridding Ukraine of Nazis. The only mainstream historian who has tried (Irving) was relentlessly slandered and deplatformed for his efforts.

[Anonymous No.21057668]

>>21054330

If you were living in 1850 you'd be claiming that democracy and republicanism are finished because all of Europe's governments, businesses, institutions, and half the people believe in monarchy. Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.21057866]

>>21052156
As a lurking unwary anon, I am truly enlightened by your intellectual odyssey of extricating the broader context and motivations preceding the war. Managing to somehow limit the time frame and the level of detail at the same time was very helpful, especially in a conflict where parties went to huge lengths to force their enemies into declaring war first for diplomatic reasons.

[Anonymous No.21057869]

>>21057866
> especially in a conflict where parties went to huge lengths to force their enemies into declaring war first for diplomatic reasons.
Hey Ivan, how do you like the draft so far?

[Anonymous No.21058541]

>>21057668
These are different things. One is a collective of ideas and the other is a manner of political technique. So I don't think that works, but more importantly, it doesn't work because once people became clearly exhausted with monarchies, alternatives started cropping up everywhere. With liberalism, it's become fashionable on the dissident right (and nowhere else) to start talking about being illiberal, post-liberal, beyond liberalism but not have any clear alternatives besides the 20th-century visions that more or less failed.

[Anonymous No.21058626]

>>21055347
If you were so inclined, please do, anon.

[Anonymous No.21060037]

>>21051994
>>21052008
Don't really care about the topic of this thread but I appreciate the pertinent contribution.

[Anonymous No.21061418]

>>21049564
Every face is an open book.