I've decided to convert to the secular religion of Bardolatry. What do I need to know before joining the faith? Would it be useful to memorize all of a character's lines, such as Macbeth or Hamlet? How much do I need to know of the life of William Shakespeare (PBUH)?

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Anonymous Mon Sep 26 03:15:11 2022 No.21043869 [Reply] [Original]

I've decided to convert to the secular religion of Bardolatry. What do I need to know before joining the faith? Would it be useful to memorize all of a character's lines, such as Macbeth or Hamlet? How much do I need to know of the life of William Shakespeare (PBUH)?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 03:21:14 2022 No.21043880
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>>21043869
Read Wagner's lecture The Destiny of Opera and then follow with his major essays Beethoven, Actors and Singers and Opera and Drama.

>Here our first business would be to discover the exact principle on which the mimetic naturalism of Shakespeare's dramas is to be distinguished from what we call by that name in the case of almost every other dramatic poet.
>I venture to deduce this principle from the one fact that Shakespeare's actors played upon a stage surrounded by spectators on all sides, whereas the modern stage has followed the lead of the French and Italians, displaying the actors only from one side, and that the front side, just like the painted 'wings.' Here we have the academic theatre of the art-Renaissance, modelled upon a misunderstanding of the antique stage, in which the scene is severed from the public by the orchestra. The special-privileged "friend of art," who erst preferred to sit on each side of this modern stage as well, our sense of seemliness has finally sent back into the parquet, to leave us an untroubled view of a theatrical picture which the skill of the decorator, machinist and costumier has almost raised to the rank of a generic work of art. Now, it is both surprising and instructive to see how a trend toward rhetorical Pathos, intensified by our great German poets to the didacto-poetic pitch, has always preponderated on this Neo-european stage, miscopied from the antique; whereas on Shakespeare's primitive folk-stage, which lacked all blinding scenic glitter, the interest was centred in the altogether realistic doings of the meanly clad play-actors. Whilst the later, academically ordered English Theatre made it the actor's imperative duty under no circumstances to turn his back on the audience, and left him to sidle off as best he could in case of any exit toward the rear, Shakespeare's performers moved before the spectator in all directions with the full reality of common life. We may judge what a power the naturalistic mode of acting had here to exert, since it was backed by no auxiliary illusion, but in every gesture had to set in closest neighbourhood to us the poet's marvellously true and yet so curiously uncommon figures, and make us believe in them to boot: here was need of the very highest dramatic pathos, if only to maintain our belief in the truthfulness of this playing, which would otherwise have proved quite laughable in situations of great tragic moment.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 03:26:17 2022 No.21043896

>>21043869
>What do I need to know before joining the faith?
1. He literally invented English
2. He invented the concept of complex personalities
3. Some people don’t think he existed he’s that good
4. This is a journey, not a destination, you will travel with Shakespeare your whole life
5. No film adaptation nor stage performance will ever match your imagination. Don’t sweat it
>Would it be useful to memorize all of a character's lines, such as Macbeth or Hamlet?
More useful to memorize the sonnets and specific monologues. You should only memorize all of a characters lines if you are actually going to play that character (which, based if you are).
>How much do I need to know of the life of William Shakespeare (PBUH)?
Surprisingly, you don’t need to know a thing about his life. His writing truly stands on its own. Doesn’t mean it’s a waste of time to learn, just that you don’t NEED to learn
Check out Anthony Burgess’s Shakespeare book

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 07:12:41 2022 No.21044487 >>21043869 In britain long ago when we had bards and druids both were fundamentally important to the culture. They could wander wherever they wanted without fear of attack and were forbidden to carry weaponry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 07:26:57 2022 No.21044515 >>21043896 You can’t learn about Shakespeare’s life because biographical information is almost completely lost, especially his formative years before breaking out on stage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 07:32:45 2022 No.21044530 >>21044515 stratfordian cope

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 07:37:24 2022 No.21044537 >>21044530 Other than his dead son Hamnet influencing Hamlet, I don’t really know what biography you could read into Shakespeare; further; Foucault debunked biographical readings in “The Function of the Author.”

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 07:38:07 2022 No.21044540 I am an idiot Here I am thinking I should read the Bible for it's historical importance but what I really should be doing is reading Shakespeare instead

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 10:43:03 2022 No.21044877 >dude reimagined a bunch of known plays/tales likely got ideas in collaboration with his actors and playwright friends (Middleton) >he was a genius and otherwise normal dude who enjoyed a good pint at ye olde pub down the way it's that simple

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 10:50:06 2022 No.21044902 >>21044877 >somehow knew beowolf despite there only being a tiny handful of translated copies in england at that time in very refined hands.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 10:53:52 2022 No.21044917 >>21044902 Yes. If Shakespeare LARPed as an erudite intellectual instead of just a normal dude who liked to drink you would believe it. Cope seethe and dilate that Shakespeare didn't live a pretentious life.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 10:59:03 2022 No.21044935

>>21043896
I read the sonnets a couple weeks ago, it's not even too hard to memorize them. You'll end up reading them half a dozen times or more trying to grasp them anyways. I loved the sonnets.. I don't care to extrapolate what shakespeare could have been or not though these, they resonate regardless. Read about half of those so far. Just started King Lear today, it's pretty good, there's a good dramatic audio of it on YouTube that makes it even more enjoyable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 13:53:50 2022 No.21045497 >>21044902 >somehow knew beowolf What? >despite there only being a tiny handful of translated copies in england at that time in very refined hands. There were zero copies

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 13:58:13 2022 No.21045511 >>21045497 The Nowell Codex now in the british library.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 14:11:27 2022 No.21045572 >>21045511 What did he do, pop over to Cotton's house and take a look?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 14:49:19 2022 No.21045700 All these people seething because Shakespeare wasn't pretentious IRL.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 14:56:54 2022 No.21045727 >>21045497 He's a retard that thinks Hamlet was based on Beowulf.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 14:59:55 2022 No.21045747 >>21045727 There are stylistic similarities that suggest a degree of inspiration from Beowolf in the writing of Hamlet although not in any way conclusive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:03:26 2022 No.21045761 >>21045572 Laurence Nowell who collected together what papers on Beowolf he could find was the tutor of one of the proposed Shakespeare candidates Edward de Vere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:05:11 2022 No.21045770 >>21044487 >we

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:30:15 2022 No.21045867 >>21045761 I was so confused about this topic, but I see you believe that kind of stuff so now I understand you're just stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:59:17 2022 No.21045939 >>21045867 Probably but that doesn't answer whether shakespeare or someone else actually wrote the plays

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:27:15 2022 No.21046505 >>21045939 Literally just: How could he write such good art and live a simple life? Why wasn't he posturing 24/7 and seeking attention? Go read Nabokov or something.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 21:37:08 2022 No.21047198 File: 57 KB, 885x874, sad autism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21043896 >5. No film adaptation nor stage performance will ever match your imagination but i can't understand his plays unless i watch a performance of it first

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 21:52:31 2022 No.21047251

>>21044902
>>21045747
Hamlet aligns far better with the story of Amleth than it does with Beowulf. The only way to make it fit with Beowulf is by force. It's also far more likely to be inspired by Amleth since the story of Amleth was somewhat widely circulated from the 1570s onward and would've inspired Ur-Hamlet which in turn inspired Hamlet (arguments about if Shakespeare wrote Ur-Hamlet is a whole other mess).

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 23:13:56 2022 No.21047549

>>21047198
Get a version with footnotes, and keep trying. It gets easier!
>>21044935
It's hard to talk about King Lear without sounding ridiculously hyperbolic—it's that good. It is one of the greatest artistic experiences humanity has to offer. Just thinking about it breaks my heart.
>>21043896
>>21043869
Good points. Bloom's "invention of the human" thing gets criticised a lot, but the depth of Shakespeare's characterisation really is unbelievable. I might be wrong, but no character in literature—at least Western literature—before him has the sort of depth that his characters have, the kind of developing, complicated inner worlds that they have. Chaucer is a possible exception. But even in the Greek tragedies, the characters, though interesting and amazing, don't seem to be real people like Shakespeare's do. I don't know how that works.
I'll have to check out that Anthony Burgess book.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 23:56:25 2022 No.21047650

>>21045761
Nowell didn't collect "together what papers on Beowolf he could find". He simply was in possession of one manuscript of it. This manuscript he inscribed with his name the same year as he started tutoring Edward de Vere. But the issue is that he only tutored de Vere for 8 months. I find it highly unlikely that he taught a 13 year old Edward to read Old English to the point where he could read all of Beowulf in at most 8 months (possibly even less since it's unknown when during 1563 he got the manuscript).

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 23:57:57 2022 No.21047654 File: 574 KB, 900x1157, how now falstaff.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ignore authorship fags, they're a plague. Instead post your favorite character.

Anonymous Tue Sep 27 00:13:46 2022 No.21047712

>>21047549
I’m gonna confess something now: I haven’t read that Anthony Burgess Shakespeare book I recommended. That being said, I know Anthony Burgess is a great author from reading other works by him, and I have seen it recommended by other anons on /lit/
I stand by every other word in my post still, and I am planning on reading Burgess’s Shakespeare book. I just haven’t read it yet.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 03:01:26 2022 No.21048352 File: 49 KB, 800x434, 753D8FBE-ADA3-4E47-8C00-53FD15A14043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Favorite film adaptations?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 04:21:01 2022 No.21048570 >>21048352 I like the Polanski Macbeth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 04:47:10 2022 No.21048617 >>21048352 Not the best adaptation but a masterpiece of film. >>21048570 Pleb taste. Nothing but Hollywood shlock.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 04:54:46 2022 No.21048641 >>21043869 >secular religion >Shakespeare was a Christian

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 04:56:10 2022 No.21048644 >>21048617 >Hollywood It was produced by a porn magazine

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:04:43 2022 No.21048672 >>21048641 >Christian >Jesus was a Jew

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:13:51 2022 No.21048690 >>21048672 >Jewish religion >Moses was a Levite

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:21:46 2022 No.21048709 >>21048690 Thanks for strengthening my argument.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:35:09 2022 No.21048730 >>21048644 Remind me again when Shakespeare defined Christianity as no longer sufficient as Jesus did the Old Testament? Shakespeare wasn't trying to make a secular worldview, while Jesus was trying to make a Christian worldview.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:46:08 2022 No.21048744 >>21048641 What evidence do you have for that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:47:53 2022 No.21048749 Enjoy Hell idol-worshippers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 05:50:05 2022 No.21048751 >>21048749 I’m glad I’m not alone in damning these heathens. Alhamdulillah, brother, we will be rewarded mightily in Heaven by our Lord, Allah, and his Prophet(PBUH).

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 06:24:05 2022 No.21048799 what hidden codes and ciphers do you find the most amusing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 07:51:35 2022 No.21048932 what's the best edition of his complete works?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 07:58:28 2022 No.21048948 >>21048744 Gee I dunno the playwright who lived in 16th and 17th century England with a Christian worldview evident in his plays must have been an atheist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 08:00:31 2022 No.21048953 >>21048932 Riverside Shakespeare imo

Anonymous Tue Sep 27 08:30:32 2022 No.21049019

>>21048948
I didn't say he was an atheist. But what makes you think his plays have a Christian worldview? Some of them are definitely set in a Christian society (Othello, Hamlet), but even they don't seem very Christian. It's even more difficult to argue that a "Christian worldview" is evident in plays like King Lear. I'm not saying he was or wasn't a Christian, but the issue is far more complex than you're making it out to be.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 08:38:10 2022 No.21049033 >>21048948 rosacrucian and old pre-1800s-scotish rite subversion freemason

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 10:03:57 2022 No.21049247 >>21043869 Okay?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 12:54:46 2022 No.21049743 File: 654 KB, 2688x1512, 1664283226631695233360713506525.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>21048953 It's a big book, but at least the paper is good.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 14:37:36 2022 No.21050021 >>21048948 > Christian worldview evident in his plays For example?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 14:42:17 2022 No.21050030 >>21050021 The positive portrayal of chastity in A Midsummer's Night Dream and All's Well that Ends Well.

Anonymous Tue Sep 27 15:04:44 2022 No.21050079

>>21050030
>The moon methinks looks with a wat’ry eye;
>And when she weeps, weeps every little flower,
>Lamenting some enforced chastity.

You're so stupid. But that's to be figured by someone who worships a jew who died like a cuck on a piece of wood.

Anonymous Tue Sep 27 16:23:04 2022 No.21050272
File: 138 KB, 900x842, midsummer-nights-dream-titania-and-bottom-henry-fox.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>21050079
Titania is literally drugged to fall in love with a man with a fucking Donkey head you retard. I bet you don't even know who the moon is, either, but somehow my "Jew cucked" brain does.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 16:30:35 2022 No.21050292 >>21044540 Or just read both you got time, negro

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 27 16:32:39 2022 No.21050301 >>21048751 >>21048749 Accept Jesus Christ, then read some Shakespeare

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/lit/ - Literature