[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 45 KB, 331x501, 0002_camus_albert_el_extranjero_05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR] No.2101677 [Reply] [Original]

Explain this shit.

>> No.2101680

its an illustration of how someone who took caums' philosophy absurdism to heart would look and act. he understands that there is no meaning in life but lives on anyway, so he seems strange to others who put meaning in things.

the elderly see meaning in a funeral for their friend, but he doesnt, etc

>> No.2101681

communicate or have me spewing theory as fact.

>> No.2101682

the sun is my eyes, i'd rather shoot you instead

>> No.2101685

i will continue post by post , john.

how is it you control her from so far away,,,,,,,,i'm sure you wont tell.

The generals daughter....... has a sister.

>> No.2101697

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism
The table on this page, should some of its 'yes's' be 'no's'?

>> No.2101706

>>2101697
the absurdist part of the table seems off. i would that that camus would argue that meaning cannot be created, but you must go on

>> No.2101708

when do you think the real fuzz will show up?

>> No.2101724

>>2101706
Thought so. But then what divides him from any non-suicidal nihilist?

>> No.2101726

>>2101680

it would be difficult for this post to be wronger

>> No.2101733

>>2101677
OP did you make the same thread last night or a few days ago? Where the book was too DEEP for you and you were jelly that people gave it praise instead of your non existent work?

>> No.2101737

>>2101724
The idea that it's appropriate for man to push on through absurdity.

>> No.2101746

>>2101733
Nope. Sorry. I'm just pissed off that Camus's philosophy amounts to little more than a blog entitled 'why I don't believe in purpose but wrote this blog anyway'.
>>2101737
That does not divide him from the nihilists.

>> No.2101750

>>2101746

"nihilists" aren't really a thing in any meaningful sense

>> No.2101754

>>2101733
>>2101733
ASK MORE QUESTION THIS OP IS A LURKING PEDOFILE LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT RESPONSE TO HOOK UP AND RAPE.

>> No.2101757

>>2101746
>That does not divide him from the nihilists

Not that there are any nihilists to be divided from, but I'm pretty sure it does. Nobody following the dictionary definition of nihilism would say it's important for people to continue living.

>> No.2101761

>>2101750
Well, a nihilist is simply defined as one who rejects the idea of objective 'shoulds' and 'should nots' and/or rejects truth and knowledge.
Really, then, isn't absurdism simply suggesting mechanisms for coping with nihilism? It seems a reactionary philosophy.

>> No.2101771

>>2101757
No, they wouldn't say it's important, but neither would the Absurdists. Earlier, you said that absurdists considered it 'appropriate for man to push on through absurdity'. Nihilists have no opinion regarding what is and is not appropriate.

>> No.2101780

>>2101771
Or, more cogently, their absence of the belief that appropriateness is relevant renders all things appropriate; thus pushing on through absurdity is also appropriate.

>> No.2101781

>>2101677
Accepting the absurdity of everything around us is one step, a necessary experience: it should not become a dead end. It arouses a revolt that can become fruitful.
"Three Interviews" in Lyrical and Critical Essays (1970)

>> No.2101783

>>2101780
but not more or less appropriate than any other action

>> No.2101788

AN ENGLISH LIT PROF WOULD MAKE THE BEST PEDOPHILE I THINK......


>>2101733
ASK MORE QUESTION THIS OP IS A LURKING PEDOFILE LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT RESPONSE TO HOOK UP AND RAPE.

>> No.2101794

>>2101754
>>2101788
Who is this guy?

>> No.2101796

>>2101783
Ah, so it is the idea that acceptance and persistence is fitting, while elusion/distraction or acceptance and suicide is not?

>> No.2101801

>>2101796
Well, then, how the fuck is anyone meant to pick that up from The Outsider?

>> No.2101806

>>2101780
>their absence of the belief that appropriateness is relevant renders all things appropriate

Nihilism is negation. You would think it would render all things inappropriate.

>> No.2101816

Is this the samefag for the last few days has been making threads about how he can't contemplate The Stranger?

>> No.2101819

>>2101801
Something that might help you guys understand the intention behind "The Stranger," is a true-life story from Beckett's life:

"In January 1938 in Paris, Beckett was stabbed in the chest and nearly killed when he refused the solicitations of a notorious pimp (who, ironically, went by the name of Prudent). Joyce arranged a private room for Beckett at the hospital. The publicity surrounding the stabbing attracted the attention of Suzanne Dechevaux-Dumesnil, who knew Beckett slightly from his first stay in Paris; this time, however, the two would begin a lifelong companionship. At a preliminary hearing, Beckett asked his attacker for the motive behind the stabbing; Prudent replied: "Je ne sais pas, Monsieur. Je m'excuse" ("I do not know, sir. I'm sorry")."

He was seemingly stabbed for no reason at all. Merely because Prudence the Pimp just so happened to feel like doing it at the time. Meursault, likewise, has very little call to do what he does.

Camus uses "absurd" not to mean "preposterous," like it is commonly used--he uses it in its true meaning, to suggest that there is a futility in that which we do. That there is no order nor value.

>> No.2101822

>>2101806
It destroys the appropriate and the inappropriate. Leaving the absence of a rational preference. Because the term 'appropriate' refers to the absence of a restricting principle or sensibility, nihilism indeed renders all things appropriate - it doesn't matter whether something is or is not appropriate, so all is appropriate; it doesn't matter whether something is or is not justified, so all is justified.

>> No.2101824

>>2101816
I've never made this thread before...

>> No.2101831

>>2101819
Sorry buddy, but that much is obvious.

>> No.2101838

>>2101816
Lol you were there? That is why i asked this >>2101733

>> No.2101839

>>2101761

Yeah, I think it's reactionary, CAMUS WAS ABSURDLY SCARED OF NIHILISM.

>> No.2101843

>>2101733
>>2101733
ASK MORE QUESTION THIS OP IS A LURKING PEDOFILE LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT RESPONSE TO HOOK UP AND RAPE

>> No.2101847

>>2101843
..... why are you quoting me left right and center?

>> No.2101849

>>2101839

pretty much every word of myth of sysiphus is about not being scared of nothingness, so, uh, yeah

>> No.2101850

>>2101839
any intelligent person should be

>> No.2101858

Absurdism is basically hopeful nihilism. Camus's philosophy was basically: everything is shit, but keep walking through it.

>> No.2101859

kk.
I now understand this shitty book.
Notes from the Underground was better...

>> No.2101861

ANTIPEDOPHILE SAGE TROLL

>> No.2101862

>>2101858

no

>> No.2101864

>>2101862
why not?

>> No.2101884

>>2101858
>Everything is shit, but keep walking through it.

Keep working on it, is what I take from it.

>>2101859
Good to know. It still wasn't a shitty book.

>> No.2101980

might as well bump this thing

>> No.2102002

>>2101822
are you saying that nihilism would lead to some form of ethical subjectivism? i always thought it was impossible to live as a nihilist since they reject all value and value systems, making it impossible to be conscious and living since doing so requires you to make value judgements

>> No.2102020

The whole point?

That Arab had it coming.

>> No.2102023
File: 101 KB, 580x489, cure-standing-31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

standing on the beach with the gun in my hand, staring at the sun, staring at the sand, staring down the barrel of the gun in my hand,

I'm alive, I'm dead. I am the stranger, killing an Arab.

I can turn and walk away or I can fire the gun, staring
at the sea, staring at the sun.

Repeat chorus, etc

>> No.2102046

>>2102002
It's just that the answer to each and every question is 'no reason'. So, while asking 'why', one can also ask 'why not'. It is possible to reject belief and the existence of rational preference while still existing and acting as a conscious life-form. Applying 'practical nihilism' while still alive is impossible; it culminates in suicide, but the simple rejection of belief still allows one to operate on subjective bases as one can answer 'why not?' with 'no reason', just as well as one can answer 'why?'

>> No.2102131

>>2102046
whether or not the question being asked to the nihlist is why or why not, a decision will be made by them, to keep existing, to not answer the question, to answer the question, etc, and by that they are making a value judgment, meaning they cannot be a nihilist

this also applies for "the simple rejection of belief", if i understand what you mean by belief that is. if you mean by belief a value system, then it also applies

>> No.2102141

i bought this book a year ago and still haven't read it. thanks for posting this and reminding me, ill start and finish it next week. no excuse!

>> No.2102149

having no objective reason to live doesn't mean that you must prefer to die

>> No.2102153

>>2102149
the only reason ive heard of for telling nihilists that they should logically kill themselves is that they must sacrifice their beliefs temporarily and decide to kill themselves so that they can reach a state, death, where nihilism is possible

>> No.2102343

>>2102153
There's that reason (which can sort of be called the 'achievement of nihilism') and there's also the reasoning that 'putting nihilism into practice' (impossible in my opinion) involves the cessation of conscious activity; the only reasonable way to act, if all behavior is meaningless, is to reduce this behavior to zero.
>>2102131
"Reason satisfies only life's reason capacity". I'm referring to what is sometimes called 'using nihilism to justify glossing over nihilism'. Most nihilists will acknowledge that it is impossible, while alive, to ultimately, and through all of their life, negate any conceptions, ideas or beliefs, but this is irrelevant to whether or not they actually believe in the validity or objectivity of those beliefs. On a side note; nihilists exclusively reject existence and/or value, this is not an all inclusive rejection (most still believe that 1 + 1 = 2, for example).
My point is that a nihilist is capable of saying "I am hungry, so I will eat" without having to assert that eating is important and that hungriness is an objective value negative. One can break their actions down to the primal and then simply persist; this does not mean animalism, it simply means purposelessness, and purposelessness does not mean incapacitating oneself towards the making of emotional judgments (which have no bearing in philosophy or value).

>> No.2102351

>>2102343
*reject truth and or value

>> No.2102401

>>2102343
i dont understand how you make the leap of, a being who rejects all value judgments, to, that being making a decision

lets go with your example, a nihilist getting hungry and eating. why are they eating? because they value being satisfied? possibly they value existence and will eat to survive? either reasoning is a value judgment, and is something i think is what a nihilist is not capable of

>> No.2102414
File: 21 KB, 500x278, 1303352095949.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

Nihilism is sort of like the gnostic atheism: the belief (or I suppose it could be the rejection) that there is 100% no God. Nihilism (or existential nihilism, which I'm basing this mainly on) completely rejects the positive notion that there is a meaning to life.
Absurdism is like agnostic atheism, where you simply say that there is no way of telling what life means.

At least, that's how I view it. You're welcome to criticize my thinkings.

>> No.2102434

>>2102401
There is no justification for any action, not even on the basis of preference. Correct, but so what? You can still act, behave and persist (you can even make judgments based on 'emotional values') while acknowledging that there is no such thing as purpose; while still acknowledging that value does not exist. This is because you are a living, breathing, instinctual organism. Why is that so confusing?

>> No.2102445

nihilism isn't restriction, it is freedom
life is the same as death
action is the same as inaction
you don't have to be restricted to achieve "practical nihilism"
you achieve it already whether you like it or not

>> No.2102449

>>2102445
Yes. That's how I feel.

>> No.2102452

>>2101682
lol'd

>> No.2102453

>>2101726
this

it is only at the end of the book that he truely recognizes the absurd

>> No.2102457

There seems to be a Stranger/Camus thread on /lit/ every other day recently. Has this been a set text somewhere recently, or is it a spontaneous widespread outbreak of Camus-reading?

>> No.2102458

>>2101724
a major part of camus philosophy is that one should enjoy every aspect of life because it is all one has

to be a suicidal nihilist would contradict this completely

camus simply believes there there is not meaning, and that the world is absurd.
you are not special, you are not extraordinary
you are as ordinary as everything else

>> No.2102460

>>2102414
If you said this to me in real life I would literally shoot you to death. Literally.

>> No.2102461

>>2101737
not pushing through, but recognizing it as it is.
one does not "push through" the was things are, one merely comes to understand and recognize it

>> No.2102466
File: 18 KB, 510x441, 1316968128340.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2102460
>emphasizes the literal part of his absurd sentence

>> No.2102473

I got the idea somewhere that Camus was pushing a philosophy which argued that man can find a satisfaction of the desire for meaning in the pursuit of meaning, rather than in meaning itself. Is this completely misplaced?

>> No.2102477
File: 23 KB, 149x203, Zapffe.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2102461
And continue living. That's the main thing.

There really are no nihilists to compare Camus to, so I'd rather contrast him with someone like Zapffe, who advocated immediately ceasing human reproduction in order to end the species.
Camus - Life is shit, accept it and live absurdly
Zapffe - Life is shit, accept it and fix the problem

>> No.2102478

>>2102473
That has always been my read of him.

>> No.2102481

>>2102453
But, regardless, he lives absurdly throughout the rest of the novel, right?

>> No.2102484

>>2102477
Kierkegaard was also a proponent of ending the human species by no longer reproducing. And Kierkegaard essentially invented existentialism before Sartre popularized it for the masses, and in turn Camus.

>> No.2102500

>>2102478
How, then, does he push this idea in The Outsider, as it seems he's only arguing in favor of acceptance and indifferent persistence.

>> No.2102508
File: 121 KB, 472x472, Doubles-guy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>> No.2102511
File: 42 KB, 472x472, dubsdes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>> No.2102531

>>2102434
>>2102445
>>2102449

accepting nihilism and then practicing it comes off as being an absurdist. if you cant be consistent with your own philosophy then why do you call yourself a part of it?

i realize this has come down to just categorization, but nihilism interests me

>> No.2102537

>>2102531
I use the term nihilism because Absurdism carries too many implications which don't apply to me.
The incomplete rejection of meaning, for one, and the idea that one can satisfy one's desire for purpose. I don't believe that this desire can, or needs to be, satisfied. Camus talks about a revolt or something; a sort of revolt by acceptance. I don't adhere to this.

>> No.2102538

>>2102531
absurdism is a recognition that one cannot find meaning, but this does not imply that there is not meaning

nihilism is the rejection of meaning

similar, but not even close to equivalent

>> No.2102540

>>2102537
> I don't believe that this desire can, or needs to be, satisfied
Hold on, I believe it can be satisfied; just not within the confines of purposelessness.

>> No.2102554

All the athiests posting in this thread are retarded. True nihilists like myself would realise the pointlessness of even posting in this thread.

>> No.2102555

>>2102554
I lol'd.

>> No.2102564
File: 13 KB, 164x134, ibong.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

are you guys familiar with the American Nihilist Underground Society?

>> No.2102576

ITT: babbys first philosophy

>> No.2102598

>>2102576
Theist?

>> No.2102618
File: 72 KB, 500x583, prozakgravesmallcg5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2102564
Oh yes. Yes I am.

>> No.2102619

Okay, non-philosophy fag here, but... why do nihilists need to be called "nihilists"? Nihilism should be accepted as a general truth from what I've read. Nothing has any inherent meaning, it's obvious. And we can never really know anything for sure(the Matrix is a common example). Nihilism is the truth(can I do that?). But that doesn't mean we can't act on our primal impulses and preferences does it?

>> No.2102624

>>2102619
>Nothing has any inherent meaning, it's obvious.
no, what's obvious is that you are a fucking mentally ill retard.

>> No.2102709

>>2102624
Actually, he's mostly right. He's just failing to bring in psychological or human elements; but, really, that's as is appropriate when referring to Nihilism.

>> No.2102761

POKEMAAAAAAAAAAANZ

>> No.2102784

>>2102598

no, I just find existentialism a bunch of bullshit. It's basically emotional masturbation mixed with undefined 'philosophy'

>> No.2102792

>>2102619
you're right, but philosophy fags will whine about why you're missing the point. it's not worth talking about really.

>> No.2102802

>>2102619

no only the ones with arbitrarily charged ethics would. deluded rejects like DandE,and married oldbitch.

>> No.2102805

wrong tag >>2102802

>> No.2102809

right tag >>2102792

>> No.2102812
File: 29 KB, 302x300, thatsjustlikeyouropinionman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

I think that The Dude had the right opinion when it comes to nihilists.

>> No.2102818

>>2102619
It's a fallacy to extrapolate from "nothing has intrinsic meaning" to "nothing has meaning."

Meaning arises in the relationships between things. This applies as much to everything in the world as it does to philosophy, e.g., money: it's not some kind of tenuous pretending we're all doing. It really does have value. But that value isn't in the individual pieces of paper or numbers on your ATM receipt. It's the totality of the system and all the components in it that create the value.

Same thing for meaning, in its broadest philosophical sense. Nihilists made the mistake of focusing on the individual components.

>> No.2102822

let's all forget that meaning means 'to mean'

I can 'have' meaning as much as i can 'have' consciousness

*guffaw*

>> No.2102820

>>2102784
It's only irritating if you consider it philosophy. Think of it as idea-based literature. The French have their own definitions of things. Don't follow them, and you'll be better off. If you read Camus as literature, you'll be disappoint son. If you read it as literature that engages philosophical ideas, you'll be able to get more out of it.

>> No.2102826

>>2102822
i can have lucidity through masturbation but sex is better, this thing i know

>> No.2102827

>>2102822

that's, like, seriously, like whoa, dude, you know like

>> No.2102840

>>2102826
BUT YOU ARE HAVING SEX, JOHN. IT'S JUST WITH YOUR HAND

>> No.2102959

>>2102818
No.

>> No.2102963

>>2102959
fucking quality post here

>> No.2102976

>>2102963
Fine. Explain how that works. I suspect you don't understand how it works, I suspect that you're in love with your own mechanisms for rational ignorance. Is this intuitionism? That's supposed to have basis in nihilism too, you know?
How the fuck can there be meaning in 'the relationship between things'? Do you even understand what intrinsic value means? Obviously not if you're willing to say simultaneously that nothing has intrinsic meaning and that things 'really do have meaning'. Fuck you and your ignorance, it's way past my goddamn bedtime.

>> No.2102981
File: 285 KB, 720x720, 1316728355445.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2102976
I thought the "No." post was a witty nihilist joke.

Apparently not.

Let's try a thought experiment.

That dollar bill in your pocket. How much is it worth?

>> No.2102985

>>2102981
It was. Fuck I need to sleep, but okay, I'll play your game. It is worth nothing, because, if I assert that it is worth the goods and services for which it can be exchanged, I must also justify the worth of those goods and services.

>> No.2103003

>>2102985
Well look, if you get it, you get it. There's no point in going through the whole thing, which is just that at every point in the line, the worth of a thing (or service, you get the point) is dependent on other factors. It's like those pictures of people sitting in a circle on each other's laps.

There is no place along the chain where you can find a "locus valori" from which the values of all the other elements in the chain derive their value.

>> No.2103009 [DELETED] 

Mers. is passing through life. The things that make him take pause, the 'magic' and the beauty of things he encounters reinforce his view that impermanence is at the essence of life and its enjoyment.

Turning down the paper job in Paris: a "Hell-fuck no" to Babbit

Mother's funeral: old man/maman's bf. the main point of interest --he is still LIVING, unlike the necrotically reverent wake attendees-- or his mother for that matter. Only Mers. and the BF have any real right or obligation to be there.

Marie: feminist nightmare

Arab: nigger metaphor., how France dealt/was dealing with its native population in N. Afr., irrationality and bloodlust that draws in and fixates

Priest: absolution on his terms would deny Mers.' own integrity, likewise with the State

Happy Death: worth checking out, less dostov/political, travels more

>> No.2103535

what does camus say is the reason we should live if life is meaningless and temporary?

doesn't living for beauty and happiness create hedonism?

>> No.2103547

>>2103535

hedonism = lust

>> No.2103567

>>2103535
He says there is no reason we live. Yet we still live so why not just enjoy it while we can?
I think that is what he is trying to say, among other things as we act on impulses and dont really know what we do a lot of the time (when he kills the arab among other things).

>> No.2103608

You guys are trying to hard to come up with a coherent philosophy you can call nihilism and convince yourselves that you believe it. It sounds cool, unique, edgy or whatever, but you aren't any different than anyone else. You want the title nihilist. This is branding. Nihilism doesn't apply to you, but there's another big N word that does: narcissism

>> No.2103624
File: 39 KB, 685x495, barlow2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

If you guys knew anything about anything (which you don't) you would know that Camus wasn't a nihilist and that existential nihilism (as defined by Sartre) stresses the acceptance of personal responsibility and the rejection of hedonism.

You're all just so pathetic, it's disgusting. I really might not even come back after posting this. I want to vomit.

>> No.2103625

>>2103608
I am rejecting all philosophies and all ideas of a coherent 'way'. I'm then rejecting the insistencies of others that this rejection carries implicit practices. I'm not 'trying too hard' to accomplish anything... Though, yes, I'm probably a narcissist, but this is 4chan.

>> No.2103633

>>2103625

Trust me, you have nothing to be proud of. You shouldn't be a narcissist.

>> No.2103636

What's with this sudden conflict over definitions? We were directly analyzing and discussing perspectives before...

>> No.2103638 [DELETED] 
File: 57 KB, 420x450, Disapproval_html_m1e96167.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2103608
>implying narcissism and nihilism are the same
>mfw

>> No.2103642

>>2103638
That's not at all what I was implying. I was implying that you aren't a nihilist and speculating that the people who are identifying as nihilists are narcissists.

>> No.2103643

>>2103633
Explain what is wrong with our ideas and stop being a child.

>> No.2103644

>>2103625
>>2103624
>>2103608
>dumbasses doing exactly what they're criticizing

>> No.2103650

lol guys today is my first day on /lit/ and I just want to say it is full of pretension fags

>> No.2103652

>>2103636
Sorry, that sounds like a better discussion actually. I guess I just wish we didn't use the term nihilism, because it's too full of meaning to be precise. If we could discuss perspectives, attitudes, and beliefs without ascribing labels to them, I think we'd have better results.
Let's check our own perspectives at the door. It's this personal identification with perspectives that bogs us down. I doubt you can be sure of something so abstract as what existentialist philosophical position is right, so why bother deciding which one you are/ which one is right? Especially when we are just exploring perspectives. Keep an open mind!

>> No.2103657

>>2103643
>calling someone a child
>implicit value judgment (you know it to be true, don't even try to bullshit yourself here)
guess who's not really a nihilist?

>> No.2103667
File: 36 KB, 350x465, 7a19e478ddjpaf69-4db2a-4c987.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2103643

No, I won't explain anything.
You're all making fools of yourselves and it's pathetic. At first it sickened me but now I find it somewhat entertaining. Go on, continue with your discussion about "nihilism" and "hedonism" I won't bother you any longer.

>> No.2103692

>>2103657
Nihilism: the negation of all beliefs pertaining to value, purpose or meaning.
Nihilist: an individual who acknowledges that these things cannot exist.
This does not mean the cessation of my humanity or the necessary alignment of my emotional judgment with my rational judgment. Some say nihilism is an attitude, not a belief, when in fact, in people, it is the reverse of that: I don't need to destroy myself and my desires. NO implicit practices, not even the maintenance of the unbelief. A nihilist is simply one who does not believe that anything is objectively better or worse than anything else; though they may still feel that way...

>> No.2103700

>>2103667
No one here was ever saying anything about hedonism...
>I won't bother you any longer
Please don't.

Please don't.

>> No.2103713

>>2103692
So such a person:
1) denies objective value
2) may still feel things are better are worse (so thinks value has its place within subjectivity)

Why not just call this position subjectivism then? It's not that you think there is no value, it's just that you disagree with an absolutist about the ontological place of value.

>> No.2103723

>>2103667

It's nice that you've found a way to feel superior :)

>> No.2103863

>>2103713
Thinking and feeling are not the same thing. In thought, it does not have its place, in feeling, it does.

>> No.2103989

>>2103863
I urge you to reevaluate what it means to feel, without thinking, the proposition that someone who disagrees with you is being childish. This is certainly a value judgment.

>> No.2104000

>>2103863
Actually, disregard >>2103989 I don't think I was clear.

If your position is that value exists in feeling but not thought or objectivity, then why not call yourself a non-cognitivist or an emotivist?

>> No.2104001

Copies of the L'etranger were found in Osama's compound with the passages about the beach highlighted

>> No.2104030

>>2104001
Interesting. The book would take on a whole new meaning to members of a militant Islamic terrorist group who view the Arab world as under direct attack by the West, have killed for their beliefs, and are being relentlessly pursued so that they can be killed in retribution, than it does for pampered college kids who desperately want to feel unique so try out edgy philosophical identities like half of all other kids between the ages of 12 and 26.

>> No.2104111
File: 125 KB, 521x456, 1310709068113.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

From my understanding, Meursault has Social Anxiety Disorder. it's the reason for all of his actions in the novel

Meursault doesn't cry at his mother's funeral not because he doesn't care, but because he does but is afraid of his emotions. he is afraid of the versions of himself that exist in the minds of others. Meursault doesn't even like Raymond that much, but he still writes that letter because he didn't see any reason not to: he was afraid to say no. He puts his mother in the home and has a shallow relationship with Marie are both because he wants to keep things simple; he doesn't want to open up and make himself emotionally vulnerable. Meursault turns down the promotion to a job in France because that would mean he would have to know new people. He doesn't care about paying with exact change because he's afraid of confrontations. He is so desperate for human contact at the end of the novel that he looks forward to hearing the crowd shout at him. SAD even explains the constant complaints about feeling disoriented or dizzy: these being an anxiety reaction that he has in interactions with other people.

His worldview, his schemas and gestalt about the meaninglessness of life is an outgrowth of that. It's a lot easier living your life as a third wheel when it cannot be helped and doesn't matter anyway

>> No.2104119

>>2104111
>>2104111


good, until

>He is so desperate for human contact at the end of the novel that he looks forward to hearing the crowd shout at him.

>> No.2104124
File: 9 KB, 349x314, 1314764766221.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>>2104111
This is a good post. You got me rethinking my view of Meursault. I'm not sure I want to hang my hat on SAD, not because it's inaccurate but because I think SAD is a symptom of an underlying personality issue. What ultimately causes M.'s inability to connect? Why is he anxious?

>he is afraid of the versions of himself that exist in the minds of others
This right here is a telling observation.

>> No.2104127

>>2104111
this is straight up ridiculous

>> No.2104129

>>2104127

I tend to agree more with this guy. Not that the social anxiety theory is bad it just seems too far fetched while at the same time almost calculated (to make a conscious effort to stay away from the things mentioned) that I personally just don't think it's true.

>> No.2104178

M.'s situation is that of l'homme absurde.

I can't believe no one here has mentioned this yet. You realize life is meaningless, ergo you either commit suicide (why that was his obvious answer is a mystery to me) or you live your life pretending, absurdly.

This is why y'all have to stop treating this stuff like it's actual philosophy. It's not. At best it's philosophy-adjacent.

>> No.2104229

>>2104178
New best answer

>> No.2104234

Because this thread is total bullshit, and it's still going for some reason, I'm going to hijack it.

Anyone have a .mobi of "The Fall"? I'm trying to find it, but I don't want to download a .rar and I don't want to make a log-in for some faggy torrent site. I just want the file--that's all.

Any help would be appreciated.

>> No.2104238

>>2104178
>This is why y'all have to stop treating this stuff like it's actual philosophy

I suppose it's not nearly boring or incomprehensible enough to be real philosophy.

>> No.2104242

>>2104178
Soo.. what if instead of pretending, I just be. I don't pretend and I don't kill myself. That seems to be the ideal. Live life authentically.

(btw I know you aren't defending Camus, but just explaining him. I'm not submitting a critique of your opinion, but of Camus's "para-philosophy")

>> No.2104465

>>2104242
And that's what I do... Just without the notion that this will make me happy or satisfy my desire for purpose: which divides me from Absurdists. I guess I just don't know what that is called.

>> No.2104529

>>2104000
That value exists, on any level, is not asserted. That the idea of value exists and is followed on a primal level, is all that is asserted. That is just mathematics... This does not allow me the accomplishment of a purposeful life.
>>2104111
Cute, so long as it isn't serious.
>>2104178
This was not mentioned because it was obvious.
>>2104242
An actually valid position that has been repeatedly asserted and repeatedly ignored in here.

This thread used to be good...

>> No.2104548

>>2104238
lol wow, i've never known somebody to be pretentious about how stupid they were before.

>> No.2104552

>>2104242

Real philosophy isn't boring or incomprehensible. If you're interested in the issues, it's worthwhile making the effort to read it. It's probably the only non-science (the only humanity?) that requires a historical approach. You really do have to know Plato and Aristotle to read Hegel, for example.

>>2104238
I was just communicating what Camus' "absurd man" idea was. I personally think it's bullshit. The realization that there is no transcendent meaning to life does not mean (get it?) that you have to kill yourself. I don't even know how he arrived at that conclusion, but he never explains it in "L'homme Aburde." He just takes it as axiomatic.

Maybe it makes sense to Catholics.

>> No.2104568

>>2104552
>The realization that there is no transcendent meaning to life does not mean (get it?) that you have to kill yourself.

If you believe this is what Camus's work says, you are a stupid faggot with little to no understanding of his writings. I hope an elephant rapes your face.

>> No.2104610

>>2104568

I'll throw in my 2 cents to say that this post is correct, and I hope an elephant rapes his face too. I don't know how people misunderstand Camus so completely and utterly. Even if you're reading Camus with a heavy bias trying to believe that's what he thought, you can't possibly convince yourself that that's the case if you actually bother to read his stuff.

>> No.2104637

I agree with
>>2104568
I also hope an elephant should force his penis into this man's face and rape it >>2104552

>> No.2104641

>>2104610
>>2104637
subtlety is key, at least switch up the style a little..

>> No.2104642

>>2104637
Wonderful.

If enough people wish that this guy would get facially raped by an elephant, it might come true. Like Tinkerbell.

Come on, /lit/! Let's band together on this and make it happen.

>> No.2104643

>>2104641
Learn how to check for samefag, fag.