/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20970124]

give me your best argument for why piracy is good or bad.

[Anonymous No.20970128]

Not a poor fag, so I don't pirate.

[Anonymous No.20970130]

/lit/ - copyright law

[Anonymous No.20970132]

it's good because it's stealing from people i don't like, which is people in any industry ever

[Anonymous No.20970134]

>>20970124
Zoomers are using less drugs than previous generations and that is probably due to the widespread access to culture on the internet.

[Anonymous No.20970138]

>>20970132
This is a stupid industry cope, it is not like people would end up buying those things. They are fucking broke.

[Anonymous No.20970147]

Intellectual property laws kill creativity, culture and art

[Anonymous No.20970153]

>>20970134
I bet that people living in first world countries with draconian piracy laws use more drugs than their equivalent in third world countries without any regulation.

[Anonymous No.20970155]

>>20970124
Not doing your homework

[Anonymous No.20970170]

>author is dead
piracy good
>author is alive
piracy good

[Anonymous No.20970186]

Anything that leeches money away from big businesses is good.

[Anonymous No.20970202]

>>20970124
Piracy is an amoral phenomenon. The individual rights of others do not overlap with my decision to download bytes from some server somewhere, and the copying of the contents of a disc which I have purchased does not represent an infringement upon individual rights. The mischaracterization of piracy as "stealing" is, at its core, a contradiction through the false comparison of digital information to a true physical good or resource. They are not the same. In essence, the copying of this information does not directly negatively or otherwise impact anyone, and so the decision to do so has no moral implications.

[Anonymous No.20970235]

>>20970202
you are the master of making a simple point sound intelligent.

[Anonymous No.20970241]

>>20970147
elaborate.

[Anonymous No.20970252]

>>20970124
Don't care, I just do it. I piss on the moral aspect of it.

[Anonymous No.20970336]

I don't care about the ethics of piracy. I just do not care.
If I weren't so fat I'd be a burglar as well.

[Anonymous No.20970349]

>>20970235
Is it simple? I would agree, but it's something few people seem to understand.

[Anonymous No.20970372]

>>20970124
If I owned a textbook or a book of any kind, and I copied down notes from it, or even copied it word for word, would anyone call me a thief? No. If I shared these notes with friends, would they become pirates? No. Yet they refer to piracy as theft, when in reality piracy is nothing more than downloading exact copies, and nobody would say that copying is a form of theft. Copying is only considered theft under the doctrine of intellectual property, but the very idea of intellectual property is unnatural and created only two or three hundred years ago. Therefore piracy is only bad if you consider the right of intellectual property to be a natural, inalienable right, which it is not, thus piracy is not bad.

[Anonymous No.20970402]

I suppose you don't even need to make an argument for it any more, streaming services for every type of media are plentiful and easy to use.
The people who still pirate then must be either
- So poor that they wouldn't have bought the thing in the first place
- Tech savvy enough to pirate. rich enough to buy, but also opposed to streaming services, so they wouldn't have bought the thing in the first place
I would have to reckon that for the most part, financial losses caused by piracy are negligible.

[Anonymous No.20970425]

>>20970124
Looks like my old cat.

I'm decidedly ambivalent regarding this topic

[Anonymous No.20970430]

>>20970235
Yeah, what he's saying is that if it's been put on the interwebs it is essentially free by rights

[Anonymous No.20970464]

>>20970241
Japan has a healthy and thriving self-publishing industry because their copyright laws are lax.
Copyright laws prevents would be artist from experimenting with concepts and characters, leading to our collective cultural impoverishment.

[Anonymous No.20970534]

This basically comes down to whether you believe knowledge should be free or not.

[Voluntary Fool No.20970776]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM

[Anonymous No.20970797]

>>20970124
Piracy is bad because it kills creativity. The shift towards multiplayer games with microtransactions was a direct result of piracy, among other other things.

Nobody wants to something that is good in itself anymore. It just has to be a vehicle to sell merchandise. And all this is coming from someone who exclusively pirates never buys.

>>20970402
I refuse to give jewflix and jewmazon my money on principle. They can both go fucking die.

[Anonymous No.20970806]

>>20970124
>good or bad
Error theorists are correct so this question is meaningless. I would say though that copyright feeds monopolization in the economy and it's increasingly unenforceable in the internet age, so piracy is both "good" and inevitable.

[Anonymous No.20970809]

>>20970124
I only read dead authors, so I'm not stealing from anyone important

>but but the translator and the editor and the
Don't care

[Anonymous No.20970814]

>>20970534
My conundrum is the necessity of reconciling freedom of knowledge with actual intellectual property and the requisite need for a man to earn a living from his own ideas and those ideas to not be claimed by others.
I don't think freedom of knowledge is entirely practicable, it's more a matter of the altruism of the author who shouldn't be left poor and destitute from giving away his work for free.

[Anonymous No.20970818]

>>20970797
Sir, this is the literature board.

[Anonymous No.20970833]

>>20970797
>The shift towards multiplayer games with microtransactions was a direct result of piracy, among other other things.
Wrong, the shift towards multiplayer games was spurred because companies could make extra money by hosting tournaments, the micro transactions are proliferating because of the success of casual mobile gaming.
Nobody wants to something that is good in itself anymore. It just has to be a vehicle to sell merchandise. And all this is coming from someone who exclusively pirates never buys.
Wrong again. Commercialization has been a thing way before pirating, studios were making more on merch with properties like Star Wars way before torrenting became a thing. You can’t blame soulless commercialization on pirating boyo

[Anonymous No.20970858]

>>20970372
I think the author of the textbook would object if you were to mass produce those copies and give them away right next to where he's selling them.

[Anonymous No.20970866]

Piracy lead to shitty streaming services, shitty DRM, and shitty live service vidya. People wanting to own shit for free is the reason for all the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20970881]

Without piracy i would probaby never be able to develop professional skills and get better education, just because i never had access to teachers, sources and tools for everything i do, i just don't have it without pirating them, should i stay an ignorant ape and deny competing with others any way possible to give it back some day in a form of free education for everyone?

[Anonymous No.20970893]

>>20970881
And god, this fucking pdfs, i would buy any readable copy in paper, because reading book more than 200 pages long is suffering

[Anonymous No.20971019]

>>20970866
Bro just torrent, it’s surprisinngly easy once you get everything set up.
The nice people at /t/ have torrents for everything, movies, music, books, video games, porn, also MUCH better selections than streaming services since you can pick and choose what you want to consume.
The actual reason everything is becoming a subscription based is precisely because companies are losing their grip on vital informational resources

[Anonymous No.20971043]

>>20970866
>>20971019

"Intellectual property" did not exist as an idea outside the deluded minds of recording execs before ~1996.

"X as a service" is just rent-seeking by trash-tier non-humans.

[Anonymous No.20971080]

>>20971043
>"Intellectual property" did not exist as an idea outside the deluded minds of recording execs before ~1996.
>what is the Statute of Anne?

[Anonymous No.20971088]

Intellectual property is a meme but it's still good to pay for people's hard work.

[Anonymous No.20971091]

>>20971043
ngl i actually love apple music it's way better than trying to download a million shitty mp3s and bloated flacs with russian tags. i 100% get my money's worth out of that shit and the fact that the obscure indie ppl i listen to might get a little pocket change is nice too.

[Anonymous No.20971093]

I think copyright protection should last for ~2 years, at least in art.

[Anonymous No.20971143]

>>20971080
>>what is the Statute of Anne?

Almost the complete opposite of the DMCA, since the goal was to give ownership of a published work to the author rather than the publisher and also included provisions for rotating work into the public domain.

[Anonymous No.20971147]

>>20970402
I rather buy food with the money I save.

[Anonymous No.20971152]

>>20971019
There's no torrent for Spongebob that comes with all audio tracks. Streaming sites do come with a dozen or so dub options. Checkmate pirates!

[Anonymous No.20971154]

>>20970124
Freedom of information

[Anonymous No.20971181]

>>20971088

If the last fifty years have taught you anything, it should probably be that hard work has absolutely no intrinsic value whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.20971396]

>>20970124
I'm a medfag and believe me anon, Scihub is a blessing. Fuck Elsevier.

[Anonymous No.20971426]

>>20971091
> Not using the spotishit mod

[Anonymous No.20971442]

I'm never going to pay for anything that only exists on computer, simple as
from the other hand I prefer physical books and watching movies in the cinema and I have no problem with paying for these, so it's not like I want creators to starve

[Anonymous No.20971532]

>>20970128
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.20972301]

>>20970202

The artist creates within the capitalist frame. You circumvent the material conditions that bind them as well as us, leaving them in the lurch. I do not pity millionaires or companies, but smaller creators feel very real loses.

If you are going to steal bread steal from Walmart, not the local bakery. And if you got a machine that can make exact copies of any bread you want, maybe don't copy the mom and pops bakery either.

[Anonymous No.20972344]

>>20970124
I've downloaded a PDF of an academic book that cost over $100, something I'd never pay for in a million years, so I could skim through it out of curiosity. Was this immoral?

[Anonymous No.20973138]

>>20972301
>The artist creates within the capitalist frame

Fuck 'em then

[Anonymous No.20973163]

i stole some epubs the other day and i like them so its good

[Anonymous No.20973167]

>look at someone's recommendation
>oh that looks good
>download epub or pdf
>read it
wasnt too bad, pretty helpful actually. i like free information. dont bother me.

[Anonymous No.20973216]

>>20970124
Piracy is good because it preserves ones innaloable right to goods wothout dependance on a central power to maintain that right. To have agency to act upon your goods in any way you please is only afforded to you, at least in the realm of digital goods, so long as you pirate them, divorcing the good from the central moderating power.

Piracy is bad because multi billion dollar corporations dont make money from under developed products as easily, very sad.

[Anonymous No.20973290]

>>20970124

that looks like my lil shelob when she was a kitten :3

[Anonymous No.20973309]

it is illogical to even try to assign value to infinite intangible copies of things but piracy doesn't need to be justified

[Anonymous No.20973343]

>>20970814
>the requisite need for a man to earn a living from his own ideas and those ideas to not be claimed by others
Writing is a liberal pursuit. That is, a pursuit worthy of a free man. Writers shouldn't write in order to make a living; they should write in order to live. Knowledge should be free. Tell me, should a man keep knowledge of a cure for a disease to himself because someone somewhere might not pay for it? Should a man keep knowledge for the elevation of mankind to himself for the very same reason? This is what troubles you. You're worried that those great ideas won't be paid for. Who cares? Why did he write and leave it expose to the whole world if not for that very reason? In the hopes of someone reading it. Imagine if nature was as miserly as them. Never revealing the pastel pink sunrise or vibrant rays of strawberries dipping in water; Never revealing the silence after a storm; Never revealing the coolness under a shade on a summer day.

In an ideal world, nobody would have to resort to writing in order to eat. In this world, pay if you can, but don't feel troubled if can't.

[Anonymous No.20973349]

>>20973290
Finna eat this cat

[Anonymous No.20973418]

>>20970124
Everyone should look out for themselves and their own people. I will gladly pirate something then share it with the boys, the suffering of a small indie game company or megacorp is of no consequence.

[Anonymous No.20973430]

i do it because i can simple as

[Anonymous No.20973441]

>>20972301
Wouldn't stealing bread from Walmart also hurt the local bakery since you then have no reason to buy from there? Also I don't think it would matter where you copied bread from unless the local bakery has much better bread.

[Anonymous No.20973710]

>>20972301
>And if you got a machine that can make exact copies of any bread you want, maybe don't copy the mom and pops bakery either.
These are levels of stupid we don't see very often

[Anonymous No.20974265]

>>20973343
What I'm worried about is others profiting from my knowledge whilst I meanwhile starve. This brings me back to the conclusion that intellectual property must be acknowledged regardless, the genius must not be permitted to suffer. We wouldn't want a doctor to lack comfortable transportation and be hungry on the job, so we pay doctors well enough that they aren't worried about their lifestyle, and we should do the likewise for the thinkers and artists.

[Anonymous No.20974299]

>>20970124
Bc it's not Blockchain, but it WILL be piracy when web3 shit gets fully injected in2 society

[Anonymous No.20974390]

>>20970124
It introduces artificial competition even in monopolistic markets, which is ultimately good for the market.
If someone is the sole holder of an item, be it game, show, book whatever, they can usually dictate the price to a very high point, because people who really want that thing will even pay prices way above market rate for it, as there is no real "market" in that sense. Piracy introduces a semblance of a market, because if the monopolist puts either the price too high or starts taking action which lowers the quality of the product (DRM, bad translation, missing languages etc) the customer can just tell the monopolist to get shafted and "purchase" at the pirate den instead.
While the economical argument for the pirate is less obvious in an actual market as opposed to a monopoly the same argument applies, high piracy still indicates that either the price is too high or there is another service problem leading people to prefer piracy, which is an incentive for the market entities to compete harder.
Also there is the whole "piracy as advertisement" argument but that is a bit gay.

TL DR: Piracy gives power to the consumer because if the seller is being a dick you can acquire the wares in other ways instead of being forced to take their bullshit and reward it with your money.

[Anonymous No.20974435]

>>20974265
Doctors are paid well because they have a niche desired skillset. Artists are a diamond dozen and 99% of the time can't make any money

[Anonymous No.20974445]

>>20974390
Couldn't you make the same argument for actual theft

[Anonymous No.20974447]

For:
>I don't have to pay for it.
Against:
>Hey, that's my book. I want money!

[Anonymous No.20974453]

Marginally, I think instances of piracy are fine and often morally permissible, but the widespread pirating of protected works will cause issues and lawmakers should seek limit the occurrence of piracy.

[Anonymous No.20974466]

>>20974435
>a diamond dozen
I know what you mean but you are wrong when we are at the point of worthwhile or even valuable intellectual property, which is implicit to this discussion.

Doctors are not paid well because of their skills, they are paid for their responsibility. They aren't even necessarily skilled per say, they are trained, but that's splitting hairs.

[Anonymous No.20974471]

>>20970147
While the IP regime maybe ought to be loosened in a good many countries, are you arguing that there should be no legal protections or merely that piracy undermines what exists now and that isn't a problem?

[Anonymous No.20974509]

>>20974445
No because theft has a collossal cost attached to it, and that is being caught/facing the legal system. It can never be competitive with any price on a societal level.
Also theft interacts with the market in a more weird way, since it actually increases the production cost by making stock of the product disappear without giving revenue, which is is antithetical to all market philosophy, because the market becoming more efficient (things being produced at a lower cost per item and thus greater margin through competition fueled innovation) is a positive on every free market philosophy I know off.

The special benefit of piracy comes from the fact that it is a: risk free for the pirate unless he is a retard and b: consequenceless for the actual company as long as their offer is good. The poorfags that always pirate wouldn't have purchased a good offer either.

[Anonymous No.20974543]

>>20974471
not that anon, but "intellectual property" protection functions as disincentive to innovate. If you want a concrete example of before and after, just look at what's happened to Hollywood.

[Anonymous No.20974545]

piracy is fine.
>muh artists rights
fuck off. how many people are pirating obscure struggling small artist's works? why should colleges charge $1000 every year for the same fucking textbooks like those; why should EA charge $59.99 for the same video game every year, etc. etc.

[Anonymous No.20974557]

>>20974509
most pirates aren't poorfags, they just want free shit. People will pretend it's some noble act to preserve media or as protest against muh corporations, but they love to consume either way. I pirate for convenience but in lieu of piracy I would be buying more. It definitely translates to a loss of sales, for both good and bad products.

[Anonymous No.20974572]

>>20974545
The text books shouldn't be prohibitively expensive, but this is symptomatic of a for-profit system of education.
If people want to buy the new EA sports vidya at full-price every year that's up to them. It takes a lot of people to work on those AAA titles, and market forces dictate to a degree what gets made, if idiots stop buying them they'll either make better ones or none at all. If hardly anyone buys them because of piracy, they'll simply make it harder to pirate, which they did.

[Anonymous No.20974587]

>>20974557
>pirate for convenience
and in that you create an inventive for the market to become more convenient instead of scattering the shows and movies over 500 different services

[Anonymous No.20974594]

>>20974572
>It takes a lot of people to work on those AAA titles

How many of those people hold intellectual property rights on the thing they make, again?

[Anonymous No.20974611]

>>20970124
It's good because I get cool shit for free.

[Anonymous No.20974628]

I don't care about the ethics. I have a job but I still pirate. I deserve free shit. Average people like myself get fucked by taxes and shitty government policies on a daily basis.

[Anonymous No.20974701]

>>20974628
> On the set of True Grit, Steinfeld created a "swear jar"; every time someone uttered the word "fuck", Steinfeld would collect $5 from the perpetrator; other vulgarities were worth a dollar. As a trade-off, she had to pay up 50 cents if she said "like". She stated she "matched it and donated it all to an Alzheimer's foundation".
LMAO, I would have kicked her nose if she tried that game on me

[Anonymous No.20974714]

>>20974594
The point I was making was actually that the people working on the game need to be paid too, as in the thing needs to sell otherwise they won't get a job on the next year's title. That's specifically relevant for those annual vidya releases

[Anonymous No.20974719]

>>20974628
You have pedestrian normalfag taste and sound like an extremely unpleasantness person but I’ll admit it’s kinda based to cuck all those big companies out of shekels

[Anonymous No.20974735]

>>20970202
I whipped that cocktail in my kitchen and am now filled with regret and disgust.

[Anonymous No.20974745]

Let's rate each other's piracy folders

[Anonymous No.20974750]

>>20974628
You have to have exactly 100iq for this to be your downloads folder

[Anonymous No.20974755]

>>20974745

Not today, Joe

[Anonymous No.20974759]

>>20974755
Joe? You think I'm a liberal or something?

[Anonymous No.20974760]

>>20974745
I don't have a piracy folder
My stuff is scattered about

[Anonymous No.20974795]

>>20970235
you are the master of being an idiot if you think a simple point can't be intelligent

[Anonymous No.20974800]

I pirate as a kind of full demo. If I liked a book enough, I'll buy a physical copy etc. If I like a game or movie or music, I'll then pay for it. Usually I still keep the pirated copy because they often run better or are higher quality.
If I don't like the game, movie, music, book, or whatever, then whoever made it doesn't deserve my money or sale figure.

[Anonymous No.20974805]

>>20972301
>reddit spacing
>inane wording such as "within the capitalist frame"
it's like pottery

[Anonymous No.20974817]

>>20974628
102 IQ post