/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.20935470]

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>20895821

>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/9o4QEIIK#P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

All claims about language learning methods must be backed up with the language in question.

Ignore the trolls.

[Anonymous No.20935475]

Is old french a classical language?

[Anonymous No.20935481]

>>20935470
Which textbooks are you guys using?

[Anonymous No.20935516]

>>20935481
Athenaze

[Anonymous No.20935519]

>>20935516
Which version?

[Anonymous No.20935520]

>>20935519
Italian ofc

[Anonymous No.20935525]

>>20935481
Someone make a Greek version of this, so I can let the meme tell me which book to use.

[Anonymous No.20935526]

>>20935520
Are there any texts that are inbetween difficulty of LLPSI and Bello Gallico? I could read LLPSI almost as easily as english but am struggling to read each sentence of Bello Gallico

[Anonymous No.20935533]

>>20935526
Most medieval Latin, The Vulgate, Sermones Romani, Epitome Historiae Graecae, Fabulae Faciles, Attic Nights, Fabulae Syrae, Pugio Bruti, Via Latina, Ad Alpes, etc...

[Anonymous No.20935534]

>>20935520
>>20935526
didn't mean to reply sorry, have this picture of Antinous as an apology for the unsolicited (you)

[Anonymous No.20935537]

>>20935526
have you tried https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/De_viris_illustribus_urbis_Romae_a_Romulo_ad_Augustum
https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Breviarium_historiae_romanae

[Anonymous No.20935543]

>>20935333
Hate to say it but its true. Old English prose is almost entirely sermons, bible translations, and laws, with the exception of the Chronicle which is pretty much equally dry.

80% of the verse comes from four manuscripts:
>Junius manuscript
Paraphrases of the bible
>Vercelli Book
Saint's lives, sermons, Dream of the Rood
>Nowell Codex
Saint's lives, various Latin translations, Beowulf, bible paraphrases
>Exeter Book
Short poems

The Exeter Book is pretty fun, and Beowulf and Dream of the Rood are decent poetry, but if you take the language seriously you'll burn through the fun stuff really fast. And there's no pot of gold after that: it's all grammars, translations from Latin, sermons, and inscriptions (a good chunk of which you will have already had to slog through, verse being so much denser than prose).

Also to be honest it's difficult as fuck. Maybe if it was easier the size and quality of the corpus wouldn't matter, but it's not something you can read without a lot of effort. They have English undergrads "study" it for three weeks but I seriously doubt they can read individual sentences they haven't seen before, much less a major work. Just to give you an idea of the difficulties: there's a huge amount of noun-classes (based on invisible Proto-Germanic stem vowel) and between 11 and 14 verb paradigms subject to various sound changes. The language is also quite fragmented dialectally, and there are very very few good resources. The only people who care about Old English are German Philologists

[Anonymous No.20935705]

>>20935533
How leveled up am I for reading Fabulae Faciles

[Anonymous No.20935707]

[Anonymous No.20935763]

>>20935526
>am struggling to read each sentence of Bello Gallico
That's mostly normal, it's deceptive. Just keep going

Do the other texts too I mean, do whatever is fun for you. But don't STOP doing the real Latin every day. It just stops being that bad after a while somehow, I wish I could even explain it.

[Anonymous No.20935782]

>>20935475
no. if you already speak a couple of romance languages you can just start reading OF/Old Spanish/Occitan etc, no need for learninig beyond vocabulary and spelling

This is sadly not the case for most of the Germanic languages though

[Anonymous No.20936023]

>>20935543
So what you're saying is, Tolkien was FUCKING autistic

[Anonymous No.20937061]

>uhm no schizo Hugues Capet is NOT related to Capetus the eight king of Alba Longa...he just isn't, stop looking into it

[Anonymous No.20937139]

>>20937061
is that fomeniko shit?

[Anonymous No.20937489]

Translate "My mind is awake when my body needs to sleep" into Latin

[Anonymous No.20937522]

>>20937489
vigilat mens cum somno corpus eget

[Anonymous No.20937540]

mens mea vigilat dum corpus meum cubare debet

[Anonymous No.20938590]

>>20935470
Doing the JACT course in Greek. Loving it so far

[Anonymous No.20938685]

>>20937489
τὸ μὲν σῶμά μου ἀγρυπνεῖ ἡ δὲ ψυχή μου καθεύδειν ἐθέλει

[Anonymous No.20938872]

τί ἀναγιγνώσκετε τήμερον ὦ αἰθίοπές μου;

[Anonymous No.20939008]

>>20935481
I've been using Introduction to Latin by Shelmerdine. It's pretty good, but since I don't have the answer key for my edition, I might have to change editions.

I have three other Latin books. Wheelock's, Latin Made Simple and Assimil Latin. I've got the key for my edition of Wheelock's, but I don't like it as much as I do Shelmerdine. I want to like Latin Made Simple, but I do wonder about the text quality. And prefer to do the Assmil course after finishing the others, maybe alongside Famillia Romana.

[Anonymous No.20939028]

>>20938872
τυγχάνω ἀναγιγνώσκων ἐν τῷ τοῦ Πλάτωνος διαλόγῳ ΦΑΙΔΩΝΙ καλουμένῳ. μέλλοιμ’ ἂν ἄρτι διατελέσας τὸν περὶ τῆς ῥητορικῆς διάλογον τὸν ΓΟΡΓΙΑΝ διώξειν τὸν κόσμον ’νεοπλατώνικον’ ὃν ὁ Ἰάμβλιχος διεκόσμησεν.

[Anonymous No.20939031]

>>20939028

[Anonymous No.20939044]

>>20939028
τὸν κόσμον; τὸ word τῷ world συνέχεας εὖ δῆλον ὅτι. τὸ δὲ ὄνομα ἢ ῥῆμα ἢ λόγος τὸ word δύναται σημαίνειν.

[Anonymous No.20939045]

>>20939008
>but since I don't have the answer key for my edition, I might have to change editions.
tried libgen?

[Anonymous No.20939051]

>>20939031
Oxoniensis?

[Anonymous No.20939075]

>>20939044
κόσμος ὥσπερ τάξις. ἔστιν γὰρ κατάλογος τις τῶν Πλατωνίκων διαλόγων διακοσμηθεὶς ὑπὸ τοῦ Ἰαμβλίχου εἰς τὸ κοσμίως παιδεύειν.

[Anonymous No.20939076]

>>20935525
There are way less decent Greek textbooks to consider so the format wouldn't work as well.
If you want to learn ancient Greek get a good grip of the grammar with any method that works for you and then read the Italian Athenaze

[Anonymous No.20939132]

>>20939075
τίνα τοῦτον λέγεις ὦ δαιμόνιε; καὶ γὰρ ἡδέως ἂν πλέω ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ ἄν σου πυθοίμην.

[Anonymous No.20939167]

>>20939132
http://n1.intelibility.com/ime/lyceum/?p=lemma&id=868&lang=2

[Anonymous No.20939242]

>>20939076
I'm doing this for Latin. I'm reading Latin: An Intensive Course by Moreland & Fleischer, then then I'm going to read Familia Romana.

[Anonymous No.20939277]

How many people here have just started learning Greek or another classical language other than Latin at university?

[Anonymous No.20939303]

>>20939167
ἀλλὰ σύγγνωθί μοι θρασύτερον μέλλοντι εἰπεῖν. λῆρος μέντοι ταῦτά μοι δοκεὶ εἶναι.

[Anonymous No.20939320]

what is the force of the aorist here? does it mean something like "begin to know/be aware" or is it something else?

[Anonymous No.20939341]

>>20939320
it defines a synoptic action
γίγνωσκε σαὐτὸν would be more like "always know thyself"


niggers

[Anonymous No.20939378]

>>20939341
doesn't the aorist of verbs that lexically have a continous/stative aspect very often signify the begining/entering into the state? like ἐβᾰσῐ́λευσεν meaning "he became a king". what exactly do you mean by synoptic?

[Anonymous No.20939418]

>>20939378
yeah but that usualy happens in the indicative case. by synoptiv I mean instant aspect

[Anonymous No.20940074]

>>20937489
Mens vigilat cum corpori dormire oporteret

[Anonymous No.20941257]

>page 10

[Anonymous No.20941345]

fascinated with the metaphysical idea of a holy language. i've been skimming for ancient, culturally well-established languages whose morphological features are unique, regular, and self-consistent. yet i'm still torn on what to learn. it's hard to find any one language i like. they all seem insufficient in some way. i'm convinced the right course of action at this point is to create a conlang, but, in the same turn, i don't want to make a conlang, because the vast majority of conlangs strike me as novelty projects hammered out in an evening with no historically sensitive thought put into them. i want to culture myself at least the tiniest bit before i attempt that. what the fuck should i learn? i was initially leaning toward latin for its significance for the western canon but knowing the vast majority of the traditional west is built on *either* scraps of traditions that died due to christianity and the black plague, or a tradition initially endemic to european history (also christianity) i'm concerned my mental tribunal of pagan tradfriends would disapprove of me. i need my esoteric fascinations satiated somehow, so in lieu of a clear western choice i've since turned to the east considering for myself the pali and sanskrit textual bodies. they seem like intelligent choices given the indo-european connexion, but i also can't help feel modern orientalist bias might have skewed me in that direction unnecessarily. classical chinese even though highly analytic doesn't appeal to me in script. i don't know how to solve my conundrum without a deep dive into every historical and cultural debate out there. all i want is to learn a novelty, culturally strong and linguistically interested language. i can't help but recall that blog post about "starting with the sumerians" and wondering if it wasn't a shitpost and i actually should have taken it at face value, because GOD FUCKING DAMN considering all this shit after the fact is a pain in the bum.
/blog

tldr what classical lang do i learn bros

[Anonymous No.20941362]

>>20941345
>culturally strong and linguistically interesting* language

can't fathom anything more embarrassing than putting all that effort into a post and messing up toward the end. really speaks to my lack of patience. i pray calling it out before anyone else does saves my ass from the guilt (it doesn't)

[Anonymous No.20941375]

>>20941345
Have you read Fabre d'Olivet

Did you know the famous linguist Whorf originally got into linguistics because of his esoteric hebrew thesis?

[Anonymous No.20941387]

>>20941375
no, i have not
give me the jewpill

[Anonymous No.20941441]

>>20941362
>can't fathom anything more embarrassing than putting all that effort into a post and messing up toward the end. really speaks to my lack of patience. i pray calling it out before anyone else does saves my ass from the guilt (it doesn't)
The fundamental substance of reality is forgiveness and charity, not scrutiny and cynicism. If you made the biggest goof or gaffe in history and the ultimately perfectly equipped and situated person to shit on you for it in all of existence was coincidentally right there at that exact moment and made a legendary witticism at your expense, you would still be heckin valid and the core of your being would be intact. You have to love yourself the way you would love a younger brother who is trying his best and the world is shitting on him for it. Be your own big brother anon.

>>20941387
The theory of an ur-language used to be common in the renaissance actually because of the hermeticist prisca theologia thesis that all human wisdom is part of an underlying natural religion perennially available to hermetics and passed through lineages by people like Moses, Hermes Trismegistus, the Orphics and Pythagoreans, Plato etc. The ancient hermetics also syncretically interpreted the Bible and wider Near Eastern mythology, the Tower of Babel probably featuring in both, along these lines, so that the natural question arose of what the first language was before the scattering of languages. One of the main contenders was obviously Hebrew, because it's the language of God's people. Fabre d'Olivet just had an interesting formulation of it and actually tried to prove it, which inspired Whorf and other people who were esoterically inclined although the actual theory doesn't hold up all that well.

But the underlying idea of it is interesting if taken allegorically and symbolically, for example I've seen people who try to find an ur-"language" of "motifs" or themes for example in mythology, or even (I've seen) in Wagner's operas. This obviously also goes back to the Renaissance and to modern symbologists like Creuzer and Eliade and Jung who wanted to find the "key to all mythologies" (as Eliot has her character Casaubon call it), but it also pops up in The Glass Bead Game which is very worth reading if you're into that kind of thing.

But as for what language to learn, my personal recommendation would be Latin for the linguistic knowledge it gives you and the ability to see the Indo-European skeleton underlying all particular languages, and then Greek if you like philosophy enough to enjoy close and slow reading it. The thing is, if you learn something like Sanskrit first it will probably take x days or hours or whatever, but if you learn Latin it may take x/8 hours, and then you can learn Sanskrit using your Latin knowledge as a bootstrap in x/4 hours. Resources and communities are more plentiful for Latin and it is frankly easier to jump into although hard to master.

[Anonymous No.20941454]

>>20941345
Sankrit.
Also don't learn Latin, I'm tired of lipsi retards.

[Anonymous No.20941469]

>>20941345
The clear Western choice is ancient Greek. Also check out https://www.hellenicgods.org/

>fascinated with the metaphysical idea of a holy language
check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian which, if nothing else, is probably one of the oldest conlangs that has been passed down to us

[Anonymous No.20941934]

>>20941441
>Latin for the linguistic knowledge it gives you and the ability to see the Indo-European skeleton underlying all particular languages,
my own experience tells me this role belongs more to Greek than Latin, especially the Greek verb

[Anonymous No.20941938]

>>20941934
You have to learn both.
The languages we all speak today have borrowed greatly from both

[Anonymous No.20941954]

My plan is to get a Latin Vulgate and try to read over and translate a page or two a day (large font one) and compare. Do you guys reckon that's good for continued learning of Latin?

[Anonymous No.20941960]

>>20941938
I did/am, I'm not talking about lexicon really(especially since Greek has a huge non IE vocabulary), I'm talking about the structure of the language. The Greek verb system gives you quite more of an idea of the mother tongue than Latin's one. In fact, I'm pretty sure the two fundamental languages for the reconstruction of the IE verb system were essentially Greek and Sanskrit.

[Anonymous No.20941995]

>>20941954
ehhh, maybe if the only Latin you are interested in is ecclesiastical/church-related, and even then you could get filtered by more classicizing writers later
I mean you will always learn something anyway, it's not either/or, if you already read the bible front to back and are eager about it won't hurt I guess, but I wouldn't recommend it myself, there are simpler texts which are more propedeutic to real classical Latin imho
btw in case you don't know there's a renaissance/early modern translation of the bible in more classical/ciceronian Latin, you could also try to work with that on the side as well

[Anonymous No.20942036]

>>20941441
thanks for the detailed reply. i'll read it in a bit, i'm currently busied by video games

[Anonymous No.20942072]

>september begins
>the new generation of lispi retards is here

[Anonymous No.20942130]

>>20941995
>there are simpler texts which are more propedeutic to real classical Latin imho
What ones? I'm looking for anything really.
>there's a renaissance/early modern translation of the bible in more classical/ciceronian Latin
I believe the one I'm getting is based off of that, it's the Douay Rheims edition

[Anonymous No.20942173]

>>20942130
anything from LLPSI and the introductory texts around it to Francis Lhomond's little history of Rome written specifically for students, stuff like this exists and you can suit yourself according also to your tastes, being engaged is key
>I believe the one I'm getting is based off of that, it's the Douay Rheims edition
isn't that an english translation of the Vulgate?
I'm talking about Sebastian Castellio's rendition of the Vulgate into a form following a more classical form of Latin.

[Anonymous No.20942508]

>>20939045
>tried libgen?
Hmm, I've looked, and they have pdfs of the first and second edition, but only the answer key for the second.

Note that I'm actually using a library copy right now, and while I have done exercises from an electronic book before, I do like using a paper book to complete the exercises.

I might just drop the exercises and just write out the example passages. I could to the exercises in my other books.

[Anonymous No.20942748]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEIMNn6jQgI

[Anonymous No.20943001]

>>20941375
>Whorf
the same as in Sapir-Whorf hypothesis? makes sense if so

[Anonymous No.20943269]

>>20942173
>isn't that an english translation of the Vulgate?
It's a translation of the Latin one. So half Latin half English.

[Anonymous No.20943672]

Ubi quantitas vōcālium quaerere possum? Wiktionaryne fīdum est?

[Anonymous No.20943872]

Aliquid simile "Catullō cotīdiānō" incipere volō. Quō auctōre aut librō, quī facilis sit, ūterer?

[Anonymous No.20943959]

>>20943672
plerumque ut ipse expertus

[Anonymous No.20944009]

>>20943959
Quid hoc significat? Nōn intellexī.

[Anonymous No.20944028]

>>20944009
saepe ipse adhibeo wiktionary, fere numquam inveni mendacia aut verbum quodlibet deest

[Anonymous No.20944099]

>>20944028
grātiās

[Anonymous No.20944144]

for me, it's akkadian culinary texts

[Anonymous No.20944157]

>>20944144
sounds good except for the dried barley cakes

[Anonymous No.20944300]

>>20941441
>>20942036
read. thank you for the encouraging words and interesting post. it's brought me some new ideas. ill see the french dude's work in time. ive decided to opt for latin, since, as you say, it's well-established. using it as a springboard into general linguistics sounds like a good idea when i can't limit my fascination.
now the biggest barrier to this is to find it in me to rigorously study, something i've been notoriously bad at seeing the dryly repetitive part of academia as superfluous and trite, a niche subset of techniques carved out for persons who need it hammered in. languages are quite a bit different to most topics i take an interest in though. it feels overwhelming since comprehension is a thing of much familiarity and not a whole lot of reasoning. how do yall do it

[Anonymous No.20944319]

>>20944300
step 1: stop writing walls of text on 4chan
step 2: pick a textbook (see: >>20935481 )
step 3: study

[Anonymous No.20944331]

>>20944300
oh and btw with this attitude:
>now the biggest barrier to this is to find it in me to rigorously study, something i've been notoriously bad at seeing the dryly repetitive part of academia as superfluous and trite, a niche subset of techniques carved out for persons who need it hammered in.
you'll never make it. so stop thinking you're above using textbooks. there's no other way to learn classical languages.

[Anonymous No.20945254]

Good afternoon classics chads, I have a question for you. How different are these two ancient Greek words (besides the fact that the first is a noun and the second is a verb)?
>κρύος
>χρίω
As in, meaning, origins, how they would be pronounced, etc. I'm curious if there's any connection, even if one strains their hardest to see it. I don't really know the differences between κ and χ, ο and ω, etc.

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous No.20945269]

Is there something like Qabbalah for Latin where they find hidden mystic meaning in etymology, spelling, grammar, etc? I've been noticing shit like this on my own so some renaissancefag must have written a book about it at least.

[Anonymous No.20945386]

>>20945254
wiktionary can largely reply to your question
they aren't related, κρύος seem more uncertain in deeper etymology and whether it's indo-european at all
χρίω on the other hand regularly comes from an indo-euro root through regular sound changes and it's related to english "grime"(e.g devoicing of aspirated ɡʰ into kʰ = χ)
κρύος = cold, a known english cognate would be crystal, except the y is pronounced like the u in french lune or german über, "o" closed and short, ρ of course rolled like in Romance languages, hence crýos
χρίω = to anoint, hence christos => Christ, the anointed one, χ is kʰ which if you are an anglo you actually pronunce all the time, since in words like "could" [kʰʊd] you tend to aspirate before the "o", that's how ancient Greek χ was like at least in the classical era
ω is just a long open /o/, so transliterated for an anglo pronunciation it should be something like chree-ooh

[Anonymous No.20945588]

>>20935543
>>20936023
Honestly, it isn't that difficult. Some poetry is a bit more difficult, as it contains rare/archaic words, but prose like Aelfric's homilies and Alfred's (court's) translations of Bede's Ecclesiastical History are easy once you work out the basic grammar, which is not that hard. It is slow going at first, but you'll quickly pick up the flow. Contrary to what some say, I think it is quite easy for a native English speaker to work out the vocabulary (admittedly most people born after the mid-eighties are utter thick, so I might be overestimating them). The grammar is as many say similar to German, but contrary to what some say, it is different and relatively simple. I found it much easier than Slavic languages, and much, much easier than Latin.

I personally like the religious poems like The Ascent, Judgement Day, and the like, as I find the imagery quite striking, but I can see that it is not everyone's bag. It is just a shame that that knob Henry VIII and his mob burnt loads of manuscripts, and a load more went in the Cotton library fire, but were are stuck with what we've got, so just be thankful for that. Just imagine how Assyriologists feel with there chronicles and inventories, and laugh at them.

[Anonymous No.20945622]

Is this based?

[Anonymous No.20945639]

>>20945269
Virgilius Maro Grammaticus

[Anonymous No.20946128]

Show me your greek handwriting

[Anonymous No.20946305]

>>20946128
>every xi and every zeta look like a retard is writing them for the first time
>a dozen other letters like sigma and delta i just have my own bullshit way of writing them
why would i disgrace myself like this for your amusement

[Anonymous No.20946587]

>>20935470
So is Middle English out of place for this thread?

[Anonymous No.20946770]

>>20946587
Pushing it but it's a dead general so go right ahead

[Anonymous No.20946785]

>>20946587
NOOOOOOOOOOO DON'T INTERRUPT MY SHITTY LLPSI ARGUMENTS AND SAME THREE TEXTBOOK DISCUSSIONS BY TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING REAL AND COOL YOU STUDY

[Anonymous No.20947194]

>>20946587
Don't you fucking dare

[Anonymous No.20947566]

>>20941345
Shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.20947605]

>>20941345
Latin

[Anonymous No.20948143]

>>20935470
Iam tres paginas athenazis legi. Nunc loquentes linguae Latinae contemno. Graeca multo melior est, Romani tantum barbari sunt et ut tales scripserunt.

[Anonymous No.20948384]

>>20948143
Friendly reminder that reading these pig latin posts will make you pick up shitty barbarisms. Only read authentic texts bros

[Anonymous No.20948653]

Got my first Loeb today. Now time for translation work. Can't believe I found this in a bookstore

[Anonymous No.20948721]

>>20948653
If you're in the UK, check out Oxfam's book section. They have Loebs for cheap and the money goes to charity.

[Anonymous No.20948997]

Are there any online bookshops which actually show academic-level history writing in their shopfronts? I want to read more scholarly ancient history, but Amazon etc will just show pop-history in eg the "ancient history" section. Do I just have to search for specific books that I've found via bibliographies/recommendations etc, or are there actual places I can browse?

[Anonymous No.20949008]

>>20948997
If you're in the UK, check this out:
https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/history/category/history

[Anonymous No.20949017]

>>20948721
I live in Australia and I've checked my local Oxfam, there isn't any there when I check and I've asked a few times. Apparently they do get large donations when people die but I've never found any

[Anonymous No.20949025]

>>20949008
Neat, cheers. Always found it a pain to try and find university press stuff

[Anonymous No.20949043]

>>20948997
I've found once you have something specific Amazon is pretty good at recomennding things. So for example 'The Last Generation of the Roman Republic' is a scholarly book and I got recomended 'Julius Caesar and the Roman People' and 'Caesar's Legacy: Civil War and the Emergence of the Roman Empire' from it, which are also scholarly.

[Anonymous No.20949186]

>>20946128
my handwriting is in general fairly adult-terrible (as opposed to schoolboy-terrible) as indicated by my other notes in this pic. Reddit gold to whoever knows where the Greek passage is from

[Anonymous No.20949295]

>>20948384
errando discimus

[Anonymous No.20949780]

Deponent verbs are just fancy pronominal verbs and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

[Anonymous No.20950238]

>>20944157
I disagree. My mom used to make a sup that had barley, and I liked it. Before cooking, it's obviously dry, just like rice. What's your problem with barley?

[Anonymous No.20951430]

>>20950238
>ēst frūmenta
Anōnyme, egō...

[Anonymous No.20951717]

Where to find Latin anki decks?

[Anonymous No.20951727]

>>20951717
in your mind and hard work
otherwise https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/

[Anonymous No.20951781]

>>20951727
Thanks

[Anonymous No.20951916]

Is it worth taking a Latin class?

[Anonymous No.20951997]

>>20951916
Maybe

[Anonymous No.20952426]

>>20948997
abebooks, search for a specific book then check out the bookseller. Alternatively look under collections for history. below link to alternative history collections
https://www.abebooks.com/collections/browse/ancient-history?cm_sp=ccbrowse-_-ancient-history-_-ccbrowse

[Anonymous No.20953833]

how would i translate "beauty out of suffering" into latin?

[Anonymous No.20954095]

>>20952426
Yeah I've seen that too thanks.
The book I was reading references a wonderfully niche book called "trees and timber in the ancient Mediterranean world", I'd love to have it but it's like 100 dollars everywhere. Pain

[Anonymous No.20954097]

>>20953833
Pulchritūdō ē dolōre? There are different words you could use, with different shades of meaning. You can drop the macrons, they just show how to pronounce it.
Also, when getting a tattoo, don't listen to an anonymous imageboard user who may or may not know Latin.

[Anonymous No.20954104]

>>20954097
don't worry i'm not getting a tattoo lol. i'm trying to understand tragedy better and want to add some flare to my journals

[Anonymous No.20954105]

>>20954097
>>20954104
thanks btw

[Anonymous No.20954533]

>>20954095
That's what happens with scholarly works, limited print runs and for a niche audience so price increases. You can always go digital
https://b-ok.asia/book/931313/cf1a8f

[Anonymous No.20955088]

When writing Latin, should you use macrons or no? I'm leaning towards no, because they don't appear beyond beginner textbooks and you can't be expected to know the placement of every macron when they don't even appear in books.

[Anonymous No.20955190]

>>20939277
I'm middle-aged and studying Latin on my own for fun. Does that count?

[Anonymous No.20955257]

>>20955088
Quantitātem vōcālium dictiōnāriīs quaerere potes; praeter quantitātem "absconditam", quantitās plūrimōrum verbōrum scitur.

[Anonymous No.20955452]

>>20955088
macrons are beginner aid like diacritics in other languages. But they are pretty useful in poetry even for a learned speaker. Romans only used them in inscriptions since many were illiterate, it's the modern equivalent of using extra diacritics in dictionaries for languages that require them.

[Anonymous No.20955683]

>>20955452
>t. latin expert

[Anonymous No.20955900]

>>20955452
why do we not abandon accents and breethings in ancient Greek though? It seems to me that the only reason is adherence to convention, which is fine as long you don't try to argue for some other reason. In certain cases (ablative ending) macrons are just as if not more important than Greek accents and their presence could make reading more fluent. I also think that the argument for them being a beginner tool most of the time comes from people who could not recite a non-macroned passage with proper pronunciation and are just in the phase of proficiency where they don't have semantical issues with vowel length anymore and have moved on to simply not caring for it at all. If you can't take a random non-macroned text and fill in all the macrons without using a dictionary you technically still need macrons.

[Anonymous No.20956037]

>>20955900
the problem is that it is not known for sure the quantity of every vowel for every word

[Anonymous No.20956076]

>>20955900
>why do we not abandon accents and breethings in ancient Greek though?
Long vowels are easier to remember than accents and breathings in greek. The main problem is the lack of native speakers today, if they weren't dead languages we wouldn't use diacritics in informal wrinting because they are unnecessary, writing comes after speaking for a native, for us it's the opposite.

[Anonymous No.20956107]

>>20956076
> we wouldn't use diacritics in informal wrinting because they are unnecessary
But the Romance languages do? Italian dropped most of the diacritics for stress, but Spanish didn't unless for penult.

[Anonymous No.20956121]

>We then have that, what in dictionaries is listed as “māius”, was pronounced /măjjus/, and similarly /hŭjjus/, /ĕjjus/, /ăjjo/, /trŏjja/, etc.

[Anonymous No.20956137]

>>20956076
> we wouldn't use diacritics in informal wrinting because they are unnecessary

[Anonymous No.20956180]

>>20956107
>but Spanish didn't unless for penult
by this system of dropping the graphical accent only on certain positions, Spanish orthography effectively indicates the accent for every word, btw
>crítico
>critico
>criticó

[Anonymous No.20956282]

>>20956121
some italians pronounce (incorrectly) gl like that

[Anonymous No.20956285]

>>20956107
schools push for their use, before people didn't care. It's mostly to preserve the language as you are forced to attain a more accurate spelling. Some boomers don't even use proper spelling to sort out the ambiguities and personally in sms I don't use accents either.
Early arabic script even had pairs of consonants that were written in the same way, they didn't note case endings, didn't specify short vowels and didn't write glottal stops. The reading became so cumbersome that they added diacritics, but still they don't use them all when writing except for the consonants (i‘jām).
But then we are writing in English, the language with the most fucked up spelling in Europe.
>>20956137
Very sporadic use, I don't undestand why you are trying to argue on a non-issue. A theoretical native speaker wouldn't press the dead key multiple times for every word.

[Anonymous No.20956357]

>>20956285
If I remember correctly some grammarians recommended the used of apices.
In any case we're dealing with a dead language, and all long (or short) vowels should always be marked. The only reason it is not done nowadays it's because it would be impossible to mark systematically the quantity of every vowel, since it is not always known.
You can do whatever you want when you write. You can decide if you want to write macrons, v or u, i or j, doubling the vowel instead of final m or even use the IPA alphabet.
Anyway, the first thing before thinking about this issue would be to actually write in Latin.

[Anonymous No.20957284]

anyone here able to read tragedy fluently? for how long have you been learning?

[Anonymous No.20957683]

>>20957284
yes
since I was born

[Anonymous No.20958476]

[Anonymous No.20958845]

>Cupido praedae piratae incitant(Objective genitive)
>Cupid's booty incites the pirates

Thanks machine translator.

[Anonymous No.20958866]

>>20958845
which translator? link it

[Anonymous No.20958902]

>>20958866
https://mymemory.translated.net/

Best one i've found, mostly use it to catch dumb mistakes but it sometimes struggles with other uses of cases, it really hate the objective genitive though.

[Anonymous No.20960567]

Where did the -thanomai part of αἰσθάνομαι come from? I have hard time figuring out that root. Any ideas?
>ais-thomai
>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B1%E1%BC%B0%CF%83%CE%B8%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B9#Ancient_Greek

[Anonymous No.20960632]

>>20960567
αἰσ should be the basic IE root, θα should come from IE *dʰh1 just like there's a d in Latin cognate au-d-io, except voiced aspirated regularly get devoiced in Greek, in this case into θ, αν should be the usual nasal suffix of many verbs e.g like in λαμβ-αν-ω, root λαβ, hence aorist ᾐσθόμην

[Anonymous No.20960691]

Regina mortuus est

[Anonymous No.20960852]

>>20960691
>mortuus
mortua*

[Anonymous No.20961038]

>>20960852
fugg

[Anonymous No.20961333]

How do you cuss in Latin? Is there an equivalent to talking like spurdo in Latin?

[Anonymous No.20961395]

>>20961333
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_obscenity

[Anonymous No.20961398]

>>20961333
big booby

[Anonymous No.20961626]

Syllabaene incipientes litteris v aut i, breves aut longas (sicut diphthongi) sunt?

[Anonymous No.20961680]

Syllabaene incipientes litteris v aut i, breves aut longae (sicut diphthongi) sunt?

[Anonymous No.20961710]

>>20961680
litterae v et i saepe ut fortasse iam scis sicut consonantes w et j adhibentur, ergo brevitas aut prolixitas stat in cauda syllabae
Ga-jus, ultima syllaba longa ob consonantem; Jū-li-us, prima syllaba longa ob vocalem; Ju-gum, prima syllaba brevis ob vocalem (brevem)
ia, ie, io, iu(non ja, je, etc....) numquam aut rare diphtongi, perinde quoque sic habentur u/w
e.g in Aeneide habes parvulum Iulum, Aeneae filium, sed aliter ac Ju-li-us, quod "Iulus" nomen Graecum est, pronuntiatur I-ū-lus

[Anonymous No.20961730]

>>20961710
Gratias tibi ago!

[Anonymous No.20961744]

>>20941345
Pali

[Anonymous No.20961762]

>>20961333
BIG MILKY HONKY TITS BIG MILKY HONKY TITS

[Anonymous No.20962257]

>>20961762
It's okay I've masturbated now. I apologize for the outburst.

[Anonymous No.20963221]

The Catholics around me offer cheap courses in Bible Greek. How different is it from classical Greek?

[Anonymous No.20963490]

>>20963221
why don't... you ask them?

[Anonymous No.20963957]

>>20963221
Like a simplified version. Fundamentals are essentially the same. Take it if you are interested and then supplement with classical Greek study

[Anonymous No.20964322]

>>20963490
I like to collect opinions.
>>20963957
Thanks

[Anonymous No.20965495]

>>20958902
thanks, friend

[Anonymous No.20965541]

>>20957683
really?

[Anonymous No.20966395]

[Anonymous No.20966402]

>>20966395

[Anonymous No.20966430]

>>20966395
>>20966402
REGES·ERAMVS·MERDAQUEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.20966447]

Why does he always do this creepy expression like he's going to rape me?

[Anonymous No.20966454]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww6dN7uoF4g
>1:03
Jesus christ he's going all out

[Anonymous No.20966458]

>he said nigger atleast 20 times

Ranieri bros I kneel

[Anonymous No.20966459]

>>20966447
>like he's going to rape me?
>like

[Anonymous No.20966655]

>>20966395
>>20966402
>>20966430
>>20966447
>>20966454
>>20966458
>>20966459

[Anonymous No.20967895]

>>20945269
>Qabbalah
>Talmoud
>Bible
>Qu'ran
Chinese are the oldest people to ever exist, and their philosophy and life-style surpasses these of the ancient Israelites and modern white European Jews.

Judaism isn't ethnicity but religion; white intellectuals from Europe adopted Judaism and turned it into an ethnicity-- there isn't "jewish gene", thats just psyop.

White people are bastards and worst than Arabs and Africans, and jews and christians are worst than muslims.

[Anonymous No.20967898]

>>20967895
surpass*

[Anonymous No.20968662]

Glad to see people finally learned to not feed the trolls.

[Anonymous No.20968715]

>εἰ κεῖνόν γε ἴδοιμι κατελθόντ’ ῎Αϊδος εἴσω ,
>φαίην κε φρέν’ ἀτέρπου ὀϊζύος ἐκλελαθέσθαι
>Iliad 6,284-285
I kinda get the sense of this but I'm 100% sure about the literal meaning, first line should be the protasis, second the apodosis with a potential?
>"If I were to see (him) descending down into Hades,
>"I could think/say/?? that my mind/φρήν would be utterly free of this unpleasant affliction"

[Anonymous No.20968810]

>>20968715
yes, i don't think the apodosis is necessarily potential, it may be just a future less vivid conditional, so it can also be translated:
if i were to see him/that one descend into Hades, i would say/affirm that my mind/fren has utterly forgotten the joyless misery.

[Anonymous No.20969110]

>>20968810
>future less vivid conditional
thanks φίλε, that actually makes sense now that I reviewed my conditionals

[Anonymous No.20969793]

Okay I just returned from a latin (late) summer school, and boy oh boy I cannot believe I listened to the Orbergfaggots for so long telling everyone with such conviction that learning paradigms is a waste of time

Now I feel like LLPSI will actually be of some use, only AFTER having all the noun/advective declensions and all verb conjugations/tenses memorised. Man, I feel like such an idiot for following the advice of those morons.

[Anonymous No.20969814]

>>20969793
we told you to do the dowling method, you stupid subhuman

[Anonymous No.20969950]

>>20969793
We already did that and finished lispi months ago retard

[Anonymous No.20970127]

>>20969793
Not learning grammar out of some sense of 'magic' in 'le methode natural' is just retarded. It's not even worth arguing about.

The people who claim to have learned this way studied grammar or another romance language first and then they lie about it to get views or Patreon supporters by telling people what they want to hear. And every monolingual chud who studies Latin or Greek wants to be told that they don't have to know what a declension is and that grammar was invented in 1910 by an Edwardian professor who couldn't speak Latin. It's not worth engaging with someone who thinks this way.

>>20969814
>downling method
This is literally just the grammar primer method without any explanations of what you are actually memorizing. It's a less intuitive cope for anti-grammar chuds who realized that grammar is important. You are just trying to implement the thing that you hate without acknowledging that you are studying grammar. It's like these people who can't take their vitamins unless it's a rainbow colored gummy bear with lots of sugar in it.

[Anonymous No.20970156]

>>20970127
the explanations are on his website:
https://wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm

mongboy.

[Anonymous No.20970162]

>>20969814
>giving it a meme name
i hope you follow The Ranieri Pronunciation Technique as well

[Anonymous No.20970166]

>>20970162
what is it called then?

[Anonymous No.20970169]

>>20968662
Now they pretend to argue with each other because you said that

[Anonymous No.20970176]

>>20970166
the whole method is just writing shit down. why do you want to attach some douchebags name to it?

[Anonymous No.20970184]

I don't often check these threads... is the guy who started studying Classical Chinese at the same time as me (last month or so) still at it? how are you getting on?

[Anonymous No.20970185]

>>20970156
>>20970162
>>20970166
>>20970169
If you have to ask someone "how do I learn Latin", then you are automatically a faggot, regardless of what YouTube channels you watch, textbook you read, or app you download. It doesn't matter if you are 'team' TPRS, comprehensible input, grammar-translation, or whatever the fuck.

Learning a language is not complicated. You buy a fucking book and then you read it. Do the exercises and check your answers.

>>20970176
>the whole method is just writing shit down. why do you want to attach some douchebags name to it?
Because they are monolingual burgermutts who think he invented the ingenious idea of writing down the conjugation of a language that you are learning

[Anonymous No.20970306]

>>20969110
no problem, are you reading the entire iliad or excerpts?

[Anonymous No.20970366]

>>20970306
I read all book 22 and now part of the sixth following an introductory book. Afterwards I guess I should be ready to maybe start from book 1 onward. I already have an easier time reading the sixth compared to the beginning so it's going well. It's also the part sung in this iconic YT video I have listened countless times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0mkt6Z3I0 which helps me a lot with the meter and remembering words.

[Anonymous No.20970391]

>>20970185
You should put that in the OP of every thread

[Anonymous No.20970484]

>>20970366
Interesting, i should be paying more attention to getting the meter right.

[Anonymous No.20971250]

If you haven't completed all of Wheelock's AND Lingua Latina your opinion on how one "should" learn Latin is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.20971281]

[Anonymous No.20971287]

>>20971250
I'm doing both at the same time AND Moreland & Fleischer too.

[Anonymous No.20971398]

mementote tantum attendere illis qui latine scribunt, quia vere sermonem latinum didicerunt (non ego, qui tantum tiro sum)
periti hīc esse scio quia aliquando quaestiones latine ago et illi latine respondent

[Anonymous No.20971474]

>>20971398
Who are you to give fucking rules????

[Anonymous No.20971584]

>>20971474
unus qui iam verba garrulorum audivit
nihil iubeo, prudentiam moneo

[Anonymous No.20971598]

>>20971584
I'm learning Sanskrit not Latin

[Anonymous No.20971870]

>>20971398
>one single macron in all of that

It is pig Latin after all...

[Anonymous No.20971939]

>>20971870
hic et hīc idem verbum non sunt, alia verba ambigua non sunt

[Anonymous No.20971963]

>>20971939
context nigger. Why not macron your ablatives as well to distinguish from nominative? Lord knows you haven't ever picked up an Oxford or Teubner

[Anonymous No.20971979]

>>20971963
nullum ablativum ambiguum illic est
cur mihi non monstras quam bene libros istos didicisti?

[Anonymous No.20972168]

>>20935475
no

[Anonymous No.20972202]

>>394810968 The new testament was originally written in Koine Greek.

[Anonymous No.20973128]

bump

[Anonymous No.20973667]

Do you speak in classical languages with any friends?

[Anonymous No.20973681]

>>20946128

[Anonymous No.20973830]

I dont understand how i am supposed to recognize automatically what kind of conjugation a word is.
How do i know, withouth just memorizing, that legere is not an e-conjugation but a consonantic conjugation (translated german term). Or do i just have to memorize and get used to it?

[Anonymous No.20973845]

>>20973830
>How do i know, withouth just memorizing, that legere is not an e-conjugation but a consonantic conjugation
Don't bother going out of your way to memorize this stuff. It's a waste of time. Just keep reading and you'll internalize it soon enough.

[Anonymous No.20973855]

>>20973845
but i gotta translate properly for my exams.

[Anonymous No.20973900]

>>20973855
underaged b&

[Anonymous No.20973914]

>>20973900
im at adult school and picked latin to at least feel good about having learned a new language

[Anonymous No.20973925]

>>20973914
you could've picked an easy germanic language like norwegian or dutch.

[Anonymous No.20973934]

>>20973925
but i want to learn latin, whats the issue?

[Anonymous No.20973944]

>>20973934
i'm just saying if you wanted to feel good about learning another language, you could've picked an easier language for a native german speaker (dutch, norwegian, afrikaans, etc)

[Anonymous No.20974009]

>>20973845
>Don't bother going out of your way to memorize this stuff. It's a waste of time. Just keep reading and you'll internalize it soon enough.
This is terrible fucking advice, ignore this reddit faggot. He's never learned a language in his entire life, I 100% guarantee.
>i'm just saying if you wanted to feel good about learning another language, you could've picked an easier language for a native german speaker (dutch, norwegian, afrikaans, etc)
See what I mean. Someone who watches YouTube "top ten easiest language" videos and then calls himself an expert. Spanish is easier than all 3 of those languages, but this faggot knows fuck all about linguistics or acquisition. He gets his knowledge from wikipedia.

>I dont understand how i am supposed to recognize automatically what kind of conjugation a word is.
You need to buy a primer for grammar. Latin an Intensive Course or Wheelock will work. Combine it with a TON of reading. LLPSI, Fabulae Faciles, the Vulgate, read everything you can get your hands on. Search "latin reader" on Archive dot org and download as many of those pdfs as you can.

[Anonymous No.20974021]

>>20974009
>spanish easier for germans than dutch
shut up, retard

[Anonymous No.20974023]

Found this at a used bookstore. Can't wait to start on Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.20974094]

>>20974009
thanks man.
Grammarwise the stuff i got from school is pretty good. I started doing LLPSI and weill check out the rest you mentioned

[Anonymous No.20974099]

should I take up philology and linguistics as one of the options on my degree alongside doing greek/latin language/literature?

I get the impression it's basically mandatory if you want to be taken seriously progressing your study of classical literature into postgraduate study

[Anonymous No.20974141]

>>20974099
Does the philology option allow to study more languages? Also, if you want to be taken seriously in postgrad, start learning French and German now. Italian might be a good idea too.

[Anonymous No.20974143]

>>20974009
You're having a meltdown because I advised him not to waste his time memorizing conjugations? I never said that he shouldn't study grammar, anon.
>See what I mean. Someone who watches YouTube "top ten easiest language" videos and then calls himself an expert. Spanish is easier than all 3 of those languages, but this faggot knows fuck all about linguistics or acquisition. He gets his knowledge from wikipedia.
It looks like you think I'm the same person who recommended him to pick an easier language to learn, but I'm not. Remember that not everyone on 4channel is the same person.
>You need to buy a primer for grammar. Latin an Intensive Course or Wheelock will work. Combine it with a TON of reading. LLPSI, Fabulae Faciles, the Vulgate, read everything you can get your hands on. Search "latin reader" on Archive dot org and download as many of those pdfs as you can.
You're only saying the same thing I did but with more words. You're freaking out because I didn't word it the exact way you would have.

[Anonymous No.20974320]

why are latin posters so fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.20974327]

>>20974320
because the majority of them only picked it up as a larp

[Anonymous No.20974495]

>>20974021
>spanish easier for germans than dutch
Literally nobody said that. I was assuming he was a native English speaker. Spanish is an easier language than Dutch for an English speaker. If he's German, why in god's name would he waste 5 minutes of his life learning Dutch as opposed to French or Spanish???

>>20974143
>You're having a meltdown
No I'm not. Some really dogshit advice is being passed around like usual. Some guy posted earlier about how he fell for this "natural method" meme and is now regretting it. If I'm coming off as aggressive it's because this nonsense is actually negatively affecting people's studies. I want people to learn more languages easily, but if you are giving advice that is going to cause someone to waste their time, then I'm going to say something about it. I've sat back and watched grammar fags argue with Orberg trannies long enough. It's about time some adults showed up and stopped this nonsense binary argument. If you want to learn a language that has heavy inflection and your native language has basically zero, you are going to need to cram grammar more-so than if someone wants to come the other way from say, German or Russian to English. They can just input the fuck out of YouTube and movies. After the grammar is understood at a basic level, mass input is definitely the way to go. People need to stop telling others to skip steps, there is no such thing as "easy mode" for Latin or Greek. Wimps who don't want to study grammar, should just go play Xbox or something instead of trying to find language "hacks" to get around doing actual studying at some point.
> I never said that he shouldn't study grammar, anon.
Well if you are telling someone who is learning a heavily inflected language, not to memorize the inflected forms, that sounds anti-studying to me. He's not advanced, he's upper beginner at best and sounds like he didn't study his forms enough by the sound of it.
>It looks like you think I'm the same person who recommended him to pick an easier language to learn, but I'm not
Honest mistake.
>You're only saying the same thing I did but with more words. You're freaking out because I didn't word it the exact way you would have.
I never said anything about "just read and you will internalize it." Those are your words. I don't believe in this "magical inductive method" where grammar just seeps into your head like you are a 2 year old - despite the fact that you are in fact not actually a toddler.

>>20974327
>because the majority of them only picked it up as a larp
For most of these guys, it really is about perfectly reconstructing pronunciation and recreating learning Latin as a native language in your bedroom just so you can write in shitty pig Latin on Discord or moderate a Subreddit.

[Anonymous No.20974513]

>>20974495
>For most of these guys
you're part of the retarded latin posters, too

[Anonymous No.20974535]

>>20974513
>you're part of the retarded latin posters, too
Whatever lurker, you didn't even read anything I wrote. I'm not interested in arguing about "le bald man" or textbooks. My post was just addressing some bad advice. If you don't like it, then don't frequent these threads, let alone this site.

[Anonymous No.20974552]

>>20974535
thanks for your service, you're truly a hero

[Anonymous No.20974560]

>>20974495
>I was assuming he was a native English speaker.
then you assumed wrong because in his original post he said this:
>consonantic conjugation (translated german term)
so he's a german speaker. see: >>20973830

instead of barking at everyone like a dog, take a minute to read through posts carefully.

[Anonymous No.20974603]

>>20974560
>instead of barking at everyone like a dog, take a minute to read through posts carefully.
I'm not barking at anyone. Sorry I'm not arguing the way you want me to argue. Anyways I don't see anyone saying "I'm a native German speaker".

[Anonymous No.20974625]

Is there anything more pathetic than larping as a latin expert when you probably can't even write a few simple sentences in latin to explain your point and prove you're not speaking out of your ass?
I wish this board was slower so they could have their own containment thread.

[Anonymous No.20974737]

>>20974625
>Is there anything more pathetic than larping as a latin expert when you probably can't even write a few simple sentences in latin to explain your point and prove you're not speaking out of your ass?
There is literally nothing to even argue about. Half of the people here are giving the exact same language learning advice that everyone else learning any other language would follow and the other half of people here are recommending bizarre fringe ideas which come from over educated trannies that are trying to reinvent the wheel.

You people need to stop equating everyone in on box. All I have done is recommend what every other knuckle dragging chimp that has tried to learn Latin has done. And I'm arguing with people who want you to do the opposite of what the highest educated members of our society have been doing for 1,5000 years in favor of a method invented by a dyke at a university.

[Anonymous No.20974738]

>ἔπειτά εἰσιν οὗτοι οἱ κατήγοροι πολλοὶ καὶ πολὺν χρόνον ἤδη κατηγορηκότες, ἔτι δὲ καὶ ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ ἡλικίᾳ λέγοντες πρὸς ὑμᾶς ἐν ᾗ ἂν μάλιστα ἐπιστεύσατε, παῖδες ὄντες ἔνιοι ὑμῶν καὶ μειράκια, ἀτεχνῶς ἐρήμην κατηγοροῦντες ἀπολογουμένου οὐδενός.

can anybody help with interpreting pieces of this passage?
>ἐν ᾗ ἂν μάλιστα ἐπιστεύσατε
how to understand this aorist indicative with ἂν? does he mean past potentiality? like "in such an age in which you COULD..."?
>ἀτεχνῶς ἐρήμην κατηγοροῦντες
also this one, i don't understand what ἐρήμην is supposed to mean here, what noun is omitted? kategoria?

[Anonymous No.20974767]

>>20974737
amabo te, latine verte quod scripsisti, linguam anglicam nescio

[Anonymous No.20974789]

>book provides answer keys for some but not all of the exercises

[Anonymous No.20974809]

>>20974767
Cur "amabo te" in vicem "quaeso"?

[Anonymous No.20974815]

>>20974789
If it's a textbook used in schools, then they want some of the exercises to be self study, and the rest for quizzes so only the teacher has the answers.

[Anonymous No.20974822]

>>20974738
>in such an age in which you COULD...
imho this seems clearly linked with the following phrase, that is, "in such an age in which you would have absolutely believed them, few of you being boys and youngsters...."
>i don't understand what ἐρήμην is supposed to mean here, what noun is omitted?
I'm guessing it's δίκη, in technical jargon ἐρήμη δίκη should mean an uncontested accusation, which in this context I guess makes sense, as I interpret the whole thing as someone describing a kind of judges that would bring a charge for obvious judgements even against someone who doesn't even bother making a defense(??)

[Anonymous No.20974867]

>>20974822
thanks a lot.
>in such an age in which you would have absolutely believed them
so it does neither affirm that they actually believed nor deny it? just that it was probable/possible? i am much more used to seeng aorist indicative with ἂν in past contrafactual statements, although this interpretation here doesn't make sense, since it would imply that they didn't actually believe.
>I'm guessing it's δίκη, in technical jargon ἐρήμη δίκη should mean an uncontested accusation
makes sense.

[Anonymous No.20974874]

>>20974737
>in favor of a method invented by a dyke at a university.
my latin prof was a dyke and we used Wheelock's

[Anonymous No.20974960]

>>20974809
cur pathicus es, igitur hoc dicente facilius movereris

[Anonymous No.20974963]

>>20974867
>i am much more used to seeng aorist indicative with ἂν in past contrafactual statements
that's what I thought too, but in those constructions what really makes the contradiction is also the part played by the protasis as well, which in this case is not there, so I see the ἄν as introducing a realistic yet hypothetical situation in the past
looking at LSJ it seems to agree with me

[Anonymous No.20974998]

>>20974963
thanks. i just looked up this in the apendix of a primer, which i have not yet read.

[Anonymous No.20975076]

>>20974809
quia pathicus es, igitur hoc dicente facilius movereris

[Anonymous No.20975104]

>fail latin I last year
>in the meantime between last year and now i was able to memorize all the paradigms by rote and go through half of Wheelock's and LLPSI at a leisurely pace
>retaking latin I and now i have to suffer through all this boring shit i already know
the first class was literally explaining what a noun is.

[Anonymous No.20975130]

>>20974023
That's a good one. Also check the ANE Mega. There's some helpful stuff in there. Good luck with Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.20975207]

>>20975104
Talk to the prof and let him know where you are coming from. He can help you out with how to improve, and he can help make the class worthwhile for you.

[Anonymous No.20975239]

New: https://youtu.be/yt2ioQyk21w

[Anonymous No.20975255]

>>20975207
Never thought of that. What do you think they'd be able to to do though?

[Anonymous No.20975300]

>>20975239
I hate this guy, and his girlfriend, they both look as if they're so proud of every word they say simply because it's latin.

His latin isn't that great either, it's the typical struggling on every word latin that all the youtubers suffer through, and his girlfriends is even worse, she can barely manage more than one word at a time

[Anonymous No.20975532]

>>20975300
Personally im excited for these lessons. I wasn't planning on learning this langauge, but they got me interested.

[Anonymous No.20975531]

>>20975255
I have been in a similar situation to yours a couple times. It's rather complicated, and since I don't want to get into my life story, I'll share one example. I have become friends with this one senior grad student at my university. He's taught a bunch of my classes. Last fall, I was due to take Latin 2 with him. I hadn't taken Latin in a year. I asked him for help, since I slacked off over the summer. For two weeks, he met with me 4 times a week going over Latin grammar I had previously learned. I got it down pat. I got a 99% in his class and an even higher grade the next semester, which was taught by a mentally incapacitated stickler. I am extremely grateful for his help.
If I were your Latin teacher, I'd ask you to come in during office hours. We'd go over what you know, and from there, I'd set up a secondary Latin program for you. The goal would be to keep you largely on-track with the rest of the class but to give you a deeper understanding of Latin than your peers.

[Anonymous No.20975891]

>>20974874
>my latin prof
If you studied Latin at a mainstream university, then you were fucked no matter what book you used, but ok. And idgaf about these textbook wars, don't drag us back to that nonsense. I was arguing about methods, not materials. You can use Collins ecclesiastical primer, Moreland & Fleischer, Sidwell & Jones, etc. I have em all and they are all serviceable in the least. It's not about which book you use. Wheelock is like training wheels book, for 12 year old boys. Nothing makes me kek harder than people saying it's too hard. Bro try learning Russian. I almost quit after the 3rd chapter of my Russian book. The first 3 wheelock chapters are like 1st declension and first conjugation. "Nauta puellam amat" and shit like that.

[Anonymous No.20976323]

>>20975891
>Bro try learning Russian. I almost quit after the 3rd chapter of my Russian book.
I quit Russian textbook after the first chapter. I quit because I am Russian. No need for textbook. I worked hard with Wheelock, and now, I know Latin.

[Anonymous No.20976391]

>>20976323
>I quit Russian textbook after the first chapter. I quit because I am Russian. No need for textbook. I worked hard with Wheelock, and now, I know Latin.
I don't understand this post, but I'm sure I'm missing something important and riveting.

[Anonymous No.20977700]

>>20975239
Who are they?

[Anonymous No.20977987]

>>20935470
Any easy books to get started?

[Anonymous No.20977994]

>>20975891
Russian isn't even that difficult. What's wrong with you? Granted I learnt Russian after Latin so I already knew certain grammatical concepts. Which textbook did you use? I used The New Penguin Russian Course by Nicholas Brown. After that I started reading graded readers and Russian children's books and slowly made my way to more difficult books.

[Anonymous No.20978000]

>>20974603
I'm a native german speaker. I didnt expect my post to cause such a ruckus, but i do nonetheless appreciate your input

[Anonymous No.20978088]

What classical language must I learn to become a Zoroastrian?

[Anonymous No.20978096]

>>20978088
Quit larping. You can't convert. The Avesta is written in Avestan.

[Anonymous No.20978155]

>>20978096
You can convert to Zoroastrianism. Indian Zoroastrians don't take converts because of an oath they made to an Indian king when they first migrated to India.
>>20978088
Avestan. It's a sister language to Sanskrit.

[Anonymous No.20978160]

Cum carmina legitur, potestne ultimam syllabam verbi elidi, si verbum posteriore littera V aut I et alia vocale (id est, cum semivocalis prima esset) incipit?

[Anonymous No.20978165]

Cum carmina leguntur, potestne ultima syllaba verbi elidi, si verbum posteriore littera V aut I et alia vocale (id est, cum semivocalis prima esset) incipit?

[Anonymous No.20978342]

Numquam mihi definitio verborum deponentium placuit. "Verba passiva habentia significationem activam". Quis sensus habet?
Novo verbo deponenti discendo, semper translationem verbo pronominali hodierno italico hispanicove inquiro. Verba harum linguarum utentia pronomine "si" aut "se", plures significationes habent: esse possunt passiva, "reflexa" (subiectum et obiectum idem sunt) aut simpliciter verba activa quibus haec pronomina uti oportet; haec verba pronominalia appelantur, quoque germanica lingua haberi censeo.
Similia haec verba, pronominalia deponentiaque, puto. Ambo passiva videntur, ambo vera forma passiva carent, ambo significationem similem activae habent. Hoc simile est geno medio, mea sententia. Exempli gratia, mori (morior) et morirse.
Hoc modo mihi facilia intellectu videntur atque non tantum facilia, sed, maxime, rationalia vel sensum habentia.

[Anonymous No.20978392]

>>20978165
neutiquam, v et j sunt consonantes
>>20978342
Verba deponentia declinantur ut verba passiva sed verba activa sunt.
>"Verba passiva habentia significationem activam"
satis est, alias sententias non tenent.

[Anonymous No.20978433]

>>20977987
What language are you thinking of learning first? Latin might be the most accessible. The Mega has a lot of good materials to get you started.

[Anonymous No.20978436]

>>20941345
All natural languages have pretty visible limits of their intrinsic exquisiteness.

This might be up your alley: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil as you seem to be disappointed that even classical languages aren't autistic enough for you. Do tell me if you know any other language more autistic than this. Still, the only real languages close to your requirement are AG+Latin.

[Anonymous No.20978481]

>>20978392
>neutiquam, v et j sunt consonantes
gratias
>satis est, alias sententias non tenent
facilius intellectu et reminiscendo sunt si translatione in verbum pronominale utitur. Ambo similia medio geno sunt et igitur similem significationem habent, praeterea similem faciem (ambo passiva videntur) et usum habent.
>reminiscor : ricordarsi/acordarse
>utor : valersi/valerse de
Quoque alia verba forma passiva transferri melius possunt utendo pronominalis
>dicitur : si dice

[Anonymous No.20978646]

magis de verba deponentia:
>https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/deponent-verbs
>190. Deponent Verbs have the forms of the passive voice, with an active or reflexive signification.
>e. Most deponents are intransitive or reflexive in meaning, corresponding to what in Greek is called the Middle Voice (§ 156.a Note).
>Note— This use corresponds very nearly to the Greek Middle voice, and is doubtless a survival of the original meaning of the passive
>https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/diatesi_(Enciclopedia-dell%27Italiano)
>Nel passaggio all’italiano, la classe dei deponenti fu rimpiazzata dai verbi riflessivi, che di fatto oggi esprimono il valore medio
Verba deponentia verbis pronominalis in liguis romanicis transferenda sunt, mea sententia.

[Anonymous No.20978655]

>>20978646
>in liguis romanicis
(lapsus linguae (digitorum))
in linguas romanicas

[Anonymous No.20978688]

isn't the consensus nowadays that PIE had only active and middle voices, and that true morphologically distinct passive was a later innovation? has this changed the way people view Latin's voices? e.g do they think early Italic had the innovation of true passive that was later lost again? or maybe it didn't partake to this innovation fully in the first place and is thus more alike early Indo-European?

[Anonymous No.20978705]

>>20941345
it's funny, I learned Akkadian and Sumerian for this purpose exactly anon
ama

[Anonymous No.20978715]

>>20978705
holy fuck this thread really is full of larpers, huh? what an absolute waste of time. how are you ever going to make it up to yourself?

[Anonymous No.20978719]

>>20978715

[Anonymous No.20978828]

>>20978688
Interesting questions, sadly I know only what I've read on shittypedia about this stuff, I hope someone knowledgeable will answer.
(btw I've read that PIE is reconstructing having two voices, active and mediopassive)

[Anonymous No.20978870]

>>20978688
From my limited understanding yes, PIE had a medio-passive that served for both. Technically what is referred to as the passive in Latin is that same medio-passive but with some morphological changes, particularly the final -r which Italic languages share with Celtic but not Germanic or Greek.

[Anonymous No.20979022]

>>20977994
>Granted I learnt Russian after Latin
I didn't. I tried to jump into Russian as a monolingual English speaker and it was pretty brutal. The vocabulary was very difficult for me to memorize. Latin is much more consistent and logical, and the vocab is the easiest thing I've ever seen in my life. I'm glad you enjoyed learning russian. I will jump back into it after Latin.

[Anonymous No.20979294]

>>20979022
>Latin is much more consistent and logical
no its not you idiot. latin encompasses dialects across two millennia. its dictionary header words can have a dozen meanings. and didnt latin spread the influence of grammatical gender, which is an absolutely illogical and inconsistent concept? whats so logical about that?

[Anonymous No.20979319]

>>20979294
>and didnt latin spread the influence of grammatical gender, which is an absolutely illogical and inconsistent concept
grammatical genders are an indo-european concept, Russian has them too, what is your point?

[Anonymous No.20979340]

>>20979294
i forgot to mention i've already been learning latin for a couple weeks now

[Anonymous No.20979345]

>>20979319
do you think it has a logical reason for being included or not?

[Anonymous No.20979478]

>>20979345
>no response
aaaand stumped, faggot. "hurr durr muh latonz has the most logical" lad, latin is responsible for the enthronement of one of the most cucked tranny concepts in history

[Anonymous No.20979514]

>>20979345
>>20979478
consult a psychiatrist

[Anonymous No.20979543]

>>20979294
>grammatical gender, which is an absolutely illogical and inconsistent concept? whats so logical about that?
Both Russian and Latin have gender. It's much more predictable than Russian and the verb conjugations are more intuitive than Russian. Why are you yelling?

[Anonymous No.20979590]

>>20979514
just did, they said youre an illogical and inconsistent faggot

[Anonymous No.20979628]

>>20979590
i'm*

[Anonymous No.20980013]

why the fuck are latin posters so fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.20980185]

>>20980013
Do you post this verbatim every 6 hours?

[Anonymous No.20980296]

>>20980185
Yes, this is how retarded latin posters are, it always surprises me even if I've already seen it uncountable times before.
Why are latin posters so fucking retarded?
I mean, just look at the last posts. How the fuck can a bunch of humans make such shitfest? What the fuck are they even arguing about? Sometimes I think apes learned to write and post here.

[Anonymous No.20980667]

>>20980296
greek filters normalfaggots but latin doesn't.

[Anonymous No.20980960]

>>20980296
those aren't actual latin posters, they don't know a word of latin, they're just latin larpers

[Anonymous No.20981052]

>>20935470
What is interesting to read in the ANE languages?
Also, why are there no Sanskrit resources in the OP?

[Anonymous No.20981396]

>>20981052
>What is interesting to read in the ANE languages?
INO
>What's interesting to read in Persian, Arabic, Hebrew, Ethiopic, Coptic, Syriac, Aramaic, Akkadian, Hittite, Ugaritic, & Middle Egyptian?

And Latin posters are the one's who are retarded???

[Anonymous No.20981836]

>>20947194
Stynt thy clappe!

[Anonymous No.20981899]

Are there any successful self-taught students here? If so, tell us how you measure your success. What have you translated?

[Anonymous No.20981905]

>ctrl+f faggot
8 results
>ctrl+f retard
13 results

[Anonymous No.20981937]

>>20981899
>What have you translated?
lol

[Anonymous No.20982005]

>>20981396
>that pic
>forgets Sumerian
Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.20982354]

>>20981899
>Are there any successful self-taught students here?
no

[Anonymous No.20982659]

Verbum deponens masturbari clare antiquam naturam mediam geni passivi demonstrat.
Fabulis Syrae legendis id animadverti. Plurimae fabularum personas nudas habent.

[Anonymous No.20982668]

>>20982659
>geni
generi

[Anonymous No.20982689]

What are the keys for the MEGAs?

[Anonymous No.20982876]

>>20981899
I can read the vulgate with ease now, except for the random vocab to look up. It pales in comparison to “classical” or “Ciceronian” style but it was my goal and I made it. Took 3 years to get here.

[Anonymous No.20982961]

>>20982876
basé

[Anonymous No.20983808]

This is the very first music I'd heard, in Latin.
https://youtu.be/pzGimN2H2oQ

[Anonymous No.20983839]

>>20935481
Lingua Latina per se illustrata
Łacina bez pomocy Orbiliusza (Polish)
Gramatyka opisowa języka łacińskiego (Polish)

[Anonymous No.20983952]

>>20935481
I'm using a big mess of printouts divided into nouns, verbs, vocab, and reading materials that I was given by my faculty.

I'm already planning on picking up a physical copy of Greek: An Intensive Course over the Christmas break ready for starting Greek, as I looked at the pdf for that and the style is basically how I'm being taught Latin and it seems highly effective

[Anonymous No.20983963]

>>20983952
>I'm being taught Latin
which books are you using?

[Anonymous No.20983972]

>>20983952
>Greek: An Intensive Course over the Christmas break ready for starting Greek, as I looked at the pdf for that and the style is basically how I'm being taught Latin and it seems highly effective
Have you tried Latin: An Intensive Course or a Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin by Collins? They were both modeled after the Greek intensive course.

[Anonymous No.20984060]

>>20983963
>>20983972
Not using any books (so far), it's all been taught through the faculty's own printed off material that the teacher then refers to during lessons. If I were to get a Latin book it'd probably be the Latin equivalent of An Intensive Course, as I've already been given tons of reading material to go through over the coming months, and I enjoy the process of being taught grammatical concepts before reinforcing them through lots of exercises.

[Anonymous No.20984073]

>>20984060
>If I were to get a Latin book it'd probably be the Latin equivalent of An Intensive Course, as I've already been given tons of reading material to go through over the coming months, and I enjoy the process of being taught grammatical concepts before reinforcing them through lots of exercises.
I have it, it's a lot faster than Wheelock. It teaches the subjunctive in chapter 2 lmfao

[Anonymous No.20984161]

>>20984060
thanks
>>20984073
do you like it?

[Anonymous No.20984179]

>>20984161
>do you like it?
I haven't finished it yet. It definitely teaches a lot per chapter. It was designed to get students reading in like a few weeks (with a teacher). Without a teacher, it's probably better suited for review as a second intermediate textbook or as a first Latin book if you have already done some Greek or something similar like Sanskrit.

[Anonymous No.20985036]

New thread
>>20984840

[Anonymous No.20985043]

it's better to make the new thread when the bump limit has already been reached, the janny is often trigger happy and may delete the other if he sees two

[Anonymous No.20986456]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20986718]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20987329]

so long

[Anonymous No.20987333]

gay bowser