MONOMYTH

[Anonymous No.20933090]

I am an expert on the Monomyth. Ask me anything you please and I will elucidate.

First tip: Only hacks call it a Hero’s Journey.

[Anonymous No.20933167]

>>20933090
Do you think the Monomyth provides any insight into the process of ordinary behavioral change?

[Anonymous No.20933210]

>>20933167
In my experience, the more familiar one becomes with the Monomyth, and what Marcus Aurelius called Logos, which Campbell shared, then one becomes better situated when opportunities arise in life. When they do, your behaviour may change to either answer or refusing them.

Understanding each ritual in the Monomyth can inform life and your behaviour in it. But let’s start with Calls for now.

[Anonymous No.20933238]

>>20933210
What about behavioral changes that occur as result of common, universal experiences, for instance, marriage (or mating), the loss of a parent, the birth of a child, the mastery of a skill etc. Is the Monomyth simply an abstraction of these universals, many of which are biological in origin?

[Anonymous No.20933393]

>>20933238
You’ve linked biology to the Monomyth, which is fine. But considering this is /lit/, I had assumed these questions would be literary in nature. However to better answer your question, in relation to biology, the Monomyth is a structure which reflects our subconscious interacting with our conscious. Of which, is biological, and irrefutable. As we intelligent mammals have both. Becoming more aware of the Monomyth rituals, and this interaction of subconscious and conscious, will inform these important milestones, or your own literal life rituals, and help one’s behaviour through them.

An example would be Atonement With The Father, as I am simply assuming your male, and made mention of having a child, and possibly the most biological of milestones. Becoming a father, and or being a good one, would necessitate your own atonement with your own father. Less that unfulfilled relationship define your fatherhood.

[Anonymous No.20934186]

what are some books that you would recommend OP

[Anonymous No.20934796]

>>20933090
>>20933167
>>20933210
>>20933238
>>20933393
Samefag using different devices

[Anonymous No.20935384]

>>20934796
Maybe you are the samefag too

[Anonymous No.20935402]

>>20933090
Is this one worth reading?

[Anonymous No.20935418]

How can i use this to write better stories?

[Anonymous No.20935426]

Did you guys know that the term "monomyth" comes from Finnegans Wake? I just read it from the Wikipedia article!

[Anonymous No.20935636]

>>20934186
The first book I would recommended isn’t actually a book. Instead, for the uninitiated, I would recommended Harmon’s Channel 101 essays on his story circles. This essay is a good Rosetta Stone for understanding the nuances of the Monomyth.

>>20935402
This is technically a book, but is actually a transcription of an interview with Campbell. While worth reading, it has less to do with the Monomyth, and more a pontification on the professor’s worldview. That said I do recall succinct articulations on the meanings of Sacraments and marriage which do broaden one’s view of the Monomyth.

>>20935418
By understanding the Monomyth is, in fact, the One Myth. As in, all fiction ever told and ever will be told is the same repetition of basic rituals.

>>20935426
This is cute and obviously correct. Aside from the appropriation of the term, Campbell chose this term to highlight how the Monomyth can be quantified in even the most non-linear storytelling. Campbell’s Skeleton Key To Finnegan’s Wake is an excellent proof-of-theory for the validity of the Monomyth, which is underlined by his choice of term.

[Anonymous No.20935684]

>>20935636
Have you read stuff like The Golden Bough or The White Goddess? Personally I think TWG was kind of kooky but TGB was very interesting to read.

[Anonymous No.20935802]

>>20935684
I have not read them. I am less interested in theology and poetry than I am strict story structure and fiction. That said, I thank you for writing the names here, so others may be interested to learn more about these books and comparative mythology.

[Anonymous No.20935810]

>>20933090
did he steal it from Propp?

[Anonymous No.20935824]

>>20933090
what do you think about GRRM subverting the monomyth?
>hero
>hero dies
>nothing of consequence happens

[Anonymous No.20935832]

>>20935824
Jon Snow is the hero of the story so it's more like
>Hero dies
>Hero comes back to life
>Hero is sent to eternal slavery

[Anonymous No.20935848]

>>20935832
Does Jon come back to life? The story ended.
If Jon and lady Zombo teamed up to battle the dragons at the end of the series that will be never finished that would have been cool but never even. What? it's called a song of fire and ice

[Anonymous No.20936100]

>>20935824
This not subverted. A full cycle of the Monomyth is not required for a story to be Monomythic. If you break a leg off a chair, it is still, technically, a chair. Just not a stable one. Furthermore you are implying the story is finished, as the next book is not yet published. But as it’s supposedly still being written, the story continues, and we will apparently be told further rituals in the story.

Furthermore, this question implies the Monomyth can be subverted. The Monomyth is all story ever told and ever will be told. All fiction that has existed and will exist. It cannot be subverted. As it’s been proven with Campbell’s own deconstruction of Finnegan’s Wake.

[Anonymous No.20936129]

>>20935810
Campbell is not the first Comparative Mythologist. I view his work as tantamount to discovering the existence of the atom. Before this discovery, there were other methodologies. Molecules and particles and ethers. Propp was a contributor to the academia of Comparative Mythology, to be sure, but it was Campbell who cracked the atom. It is no more stolen then Dalton stole from Plato.

[Anonymous No.20936160]

>>20936100
your chair is subverted though

[Anonymous No.20936177]

>>20933090
Can you tell us something interesting already?

[Anonymous No.20936204]

>>20936160
No, it is not. It is simply a three legged chair. Stools for example, or camping chairs. Many exist, and like the Monomyth, not every ritual or leg is required for every story. Furthermore, in this example, it would only be “subverted”, in the vernacular, if weight were applied to the missing fourth leg, which would topple over, and cause pain to the person. Unless you’re actively trying to damage the sitter, or consumer of fiction in this instance, this is naturally best avoided.

If we continue along this logic, driving your car into a cement wall is also “subversion” of the vehicle. I do not encourage it.

[Anonymous No.20936206]

>>20936177
Ask an interesting question.

[Anonymous No.20936228]

>>20936129
>I view his work as tantamount to discovering the existence of the atom
no lmao, comparative mythology is tantamount to Orgonomics. Widely discredited and embarrassing to the field of anthropology.

[Anonymous No.20936242]

>>20936228
And yet, the Monomyth persists. Campbell discovered the atom, and George Lucas cracked it in 1977. The resulting fallout and radiation from that Monomythic explosion is still felt today. One cannot argue with the evident and highly present consequence of Campbell’s work.

[Anonymous No.20936262]

>>20936206
I can't, you've only read Campbell and barely scratched the surface of comparative mythology

[Anonymous No.20936275]

>>20936262
Well if you can’t, you can’t. I answer what is asked fren.

[Anonymous No.20936278]

>>20936242
people still read Freud too

[Anonymous No.20936291]

>>20933090
What's your favorite example of the monomyth?

[Anonymous No.20936294]

>>20936275
Have you tried reading more?

[Anonymous No.20936297]

>>20936278
But there are no empires of modern psychology, with billions if not trillions of profit, and rides at Disneyland, based on Freud’s work.

[Anonymous No.20936302]

>>20936294
Always. I appreciate the insults, but insults are not questions.

[Anonymous No.20936306]

>>20936302
We appreciate your expertise

[Anonymous No.20936312]

>>20936291
All stories are examples of the Monomyth. However there are stories written with explicit understanding of Campbell’s work. Of which, my favourite is the film Gravity. The rituals are perfectly placed, paced, and in space. The movement from Goddess to Atonement is genuinely beautiful.

I also enjoy Birdman, as that too, only makes sense when one deliberately plots it’s Monomythic structure.

[Anonymous No.20936316]

>>20936302
based

[Anonymous No.20936320]

>>20936306
You’re welcome fren.

[Anonymous No.20936321]

>>20933090
Why do you have a negative opinion over people calling it the "hero's journey"?

[Anonymous No.20936330]

>>20936321
Because it’s called the Monomyth. The “hero’s journey” in the modern parlance is often a blurry white jpg of some circle that people confuse with a male protagonist in an action adventure film. Shared superficially so pseudo intellectuals never need read a book; Only their pixel screens. If your name is Bob, I won’t call you Steve, especially if Steve is an idiot.

[Anonymous No.20936334]

>>20936312
I also like those two films but I wasn't even really well-versed in the monomyth when I watched them (nor am I now). Would you say there's a subconscious reason why one is attracted to some stories more than others? As in, the more monomythic a story is, the more people are subconsciously attracted to it.

I hope I'm not asking a stupid question because I've always thought the monomyth was this particular storytelling structure, not about how all stories were monomythic. Can you elaborate on that a bit? Are *all* stories monomythic?

[Anonymous No.20936465]

>>20936334
Yes, that assumption is correct. The more Monomythic a story is designed, the more your human audience is satisfied by it. Read: Not attracted to, necessarily.

To explain how the Monomyth is all story and all fiction, I feel only copy and pasting the entirety of The Hero With A Thousand Faces into this blue box would be sufficient. However as briefly as I can write, all story is fictional, in theory, even if based on true events. ie, It is a lie. No other species behaves this way. Lying to each other, knowing it is a lie, and telling narratives of lies. Beavers chew wood and build dams. Bees form hierarchies and make honey. Why do we humans do this? Because we have a developed subconscious and conscious due to our evolved brains. These lies, this fiction, is a result from our subconscious cleansing itself through our conscious. This process, this purging of neurosis, is performed through ritual. Be it in storytelling, or in real life, with real ritual. Be it showering, or having sex, or the sacrament of marriage. All story, every story ever told, is a sequence of linear rituals, or events, which reflect the interaction of subconscious with the conscious. Even the most non-linear and auteur narrative has a beginning, middle, and end, with some sequence of event. Understanding these rituals is understanding the Monomyth.

[Anonymous No.20936720]

>>20933090
What are your thoughts on Kurt Vonnegut's shape of stories theory?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOGru_4z1Vc

[Anonymous No.20937249]

>>20936720
I have no thoughts. While I appreciate the question, this thread was made to answer inquiries about the Monomyth, and enlighten those who ask. Vonnegut’s story shapes predate Campbell’s work, and possibly influenced the thesis. My opinion is these shapes are in the same bedrock as similar efforts, be it the Seven Stories Archetypes, or the standard high school english class Rising Action - Conclusion - Falling Action. If this is beneficial for you to understand, or learn, then by all means.

When I say beneficial, I mean it explicitly. Understanding the Monomyth has benefited my life and my work. I can consciously acknowledge the benefit. Please do the same when acknowledging Vonnegut’s work in relation to your own.

[Anonymous No.20937260]

>>20937249
>I have no thoughts.
Alright.

[Anonymous No.20937299]

>>20937249
Except Campbells Ouroboros is BTFO by Frye. Read Frye instead his work on the monomyth / archetypes far surpasses Campbell.

>>20936720
Vonnegut probably read Frye - the shape of the bible is a spiral

[Anonymous No.20937327]

>>20937299
>>20937249
>>20933090
If youre interested in the Monomyth then you should be reading One Piece - One Piece's ambition is to be the monomyth of our age, The Grand Line is shaped like story of the Bible & has Luffy staging revolutions globally culminating in him depicted simultaneously as Christ in revelation, Dore's God slaying the Leviathan, & animation itself expelling the snake from the Flower Capital to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth

[Anonymous No.20937333]

>>20937327
Doesn't it have way too many twists and turns for it to be a clear-cut monomyth?

[Anonymous No.20937338]

>>20937299
>>20937249
Seasons are the key not an Ouroboros

[Anonymous No.20937356]

>>20937333
divine triples - & no because the monomyth isnt actuallly a monomyth because campbell is wrong. Each island in One Piece is a different season. The most recent arc was unique in that the island was shaped like a brain & contained all the seasons. Alabasta is a Spring island for example which you can tell because the arc ends in Vivi marrying her country sorta like the song of songs.
>>20937338

[Anonymous No.20937369]

>>20937299
>>20937338
I’d almost agree with the structure if the world over experienced seasons in equal fashion. There are many humans whom there are no spring or fall, only summer or winter. The ouroboros of the Monomyth perfectly encapsulates the human condition: All humans on this planet Earth.

What I find puzzling in this thread is the effort to either “subvert” and or prove the Monomyth to be incorrect. The last fifty years of demonstrable consequence from Campbell’s work invalidates any negotiation. It’s validity is beyond the arbitration of /lit/. I seek only to share it’s truth; Not defend it from contrarians.

[Anonymous No.20937375]

>>20937369
>What I find puzzling in this thread is the effort to either “subvert” and or prove the Monomyth to be incorrect.
That's every thread with every topic. Faggots here are contrarian, which is healthy to some extent but can get unhealthy at times.

[Anonymous No.20937387]

>>20937375
Sure, and you’re right, but the Monomyth is demonstrably laced within modern story telling. To contraire it’s existence is evading, if not willfully ignoring, the last fifty years of writing. Imagine telling a physicist the atom isn’t real.

[Anonymous No.20937395]

>>20937369
>>20937387
How does Campbell contend with Frye's seasonal map or the Bible - the Bible is opposed to this Ouroboros mapping because of Revelation.

[Anonymous No.20937398]

>>20933090
Kino graph
>>20936720
Seems incomplete
>>20937299
Trippy
>>20937338
Absolutely retarded

[Anonymous No.20937405]

>>20937395
the Bible is not a single story, it's different books put together.

[Anonymous No.20937415]

>>20937405
This is a limited view - its simultaneously a single story which is clear in the fact that it IS a single book called the Bible.
Adam's fall -> Revelation/Establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven is the whole story.

[Anonymous No.20937428]

>>20937415
>which is clear in the fact that it IS a single book called the Bible.
It's a collection of Hebrew and Christian texts. It's not a single story just because it's a book. Next thing you'll tell me The Complete Works of Shakespeare is a single story.

[Anonymous No.20937748]

St George and the dragon is a material version of the monomyth. Man slays dragon and receives gold.

Moses goes up on Mt. Sinai, receives divine wisdom, returns to the people to share the ten commandments.

Christ went into the desert, obtains divine wisdom, returns to share the gift of eternal life to the people.

Freud's patients free-associate until they are able to bring subconcious structured to the concious.

The monomyth is the literary abstraction of the fundamental metaphysical process. It is also represented by the Chistian trinity. The Son (the ego) excavates The Father (repressed information in history) with help of the Holy Spirit.

It is also encapsulated by two of Plato's axioms: know thyself; and all knowledge is recognition. All of Greek tragedy revolves around RECOGNITION.

RECOGNITION is the primary function here. Oedipus comes to the recognition that he has brought a curse to the city by unwittingly fulfilling the prophecy.

The monomyth is the story of us and how we got here. It is the story of assimilation and catharsis. It is the story of consciousness. It is literally the story of how we got here.

[Anonymous No.20938669]

>>20937748
wtf