/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20931246]

Who knew such an irrelevant country would be chock-full of top-tier classics? They're only bested by Russian classics

[Anonymous No.20931254]

>>20931246
Excellent bait. Tbqh I have a shameful ignorance of Italian poetry I should remedy at some point. Should one just jump into Petrarch or is there a usual starting point?

[Anonymous No.20931258]

>>20931246
I love Italian literature. Currently learning the language to read the untranslated stuff and the poetry. But I wouldn't call them irrelevant. Their influence is there, however silent it may seem. Anglos and Frogs are loud and obnoxious about their influence but Italy is more subtle and elegant. Different worldview.

[Anonymous No.20931260]

>>20931246
italian literature blows

[Anonymous No.20931262]

>>20931260
filtered

[Anonymous No.20931271]

>>20931246
Don't fall the promessi sposi meme. It's rather dull.

[Anonymous No.20931275]

>>20931246
French realism>Dante>Russian golden age>>>>>>>>German Romanticism>other Italian lit

[Anonymous No.20931296]

>>20931275
Ariosto shits all over German Romanticism but of course you haven't read him.

[Anonymous No.20931343]

>>20931271
It has its good moments. For example when the Innominato starts thinking about his suicide, and he starts worrying about all those banal and mundane stuff that would happen to his castle once his men found him dead. Pretty sure Manzoni considered suicide very seriously at some point in his life.
The description of the library of don Ferrante had also a mixed feeling of derision and melancholy I liked a lot.
It's full of stuff like that, but in any case it's impossible to make a "thriller" out of a moralistic novel about two villagers. So yes, it may be kind of "dull".

[Anonymous No.20931357]

>>20931296
>but of course you haven't read him
I don't have to read an author to know whether he's good or bad.

[Anonymous No.20931358]

>>20931357
/lit/ in a post

[Anonymous No.20931367]

>>20931343
I thought about putting in the disclaimer that the Innominato scene was the only bit that I really enjoyed.
Feels like it ended up as *the* definitive Italian novel because there wasn't anything else and the 19th century was the century of the European novels, so it ended up with the title by default.
I suppose the point I'm making is that people wanting to get into Italian literature should read a bunch of other stuff before getting to Manzoni.

[Anonymous No.20931386]

>>20931357
Most retarded post this month and it's only the 2nd. Congrats.

[Anonymous No.20931427]

>>20931296
The person you were replying to here. I read some of his plays and didn't hate them but who in their right mind thinks of Ariosto as a true giant of literature that puts Italy on top?

[Anonymous No.20931435]

>>20931427
Those who have read Orlando Furioso.

[Anonymous No.20931644]

Dante, Colonna, Aretino, Alfieri, Foscolo, Leopardi, Manzoni, D'Annunzio, Campana, Marinetti, Corra, Quasimodo, Ungaretti, Malaparte, Gadda, Ortese, Manganelli, Campo, Bufalino, D'Arrigo, Sanguineti, Pasolini, Cesarano, Emo, Volponi, the list goes on…

[Anonymous No.20931660]

>>20931246
NO lit please don't discover leopardi NO

[Anonymous No.20931677]

>>20931660
for me it's la ginestra

[Anonymous No.20931684]

[Anonymous No.20931702]

>>20931246
I would read italian authors but i find their language annoying and ever since i watched mob movies when i was 12 i cannot separate italian names from goofy ayyy im walking ova here type stereotypes. I can only take medieval niggas seriously hence I read Dante and he is indeed one of the best to ever do it

[Anonymous No.20931709]

>>20931246
>irrelevant country
>invented fascism

[Anonymous No.20931717]

>>20931684
the personification of /lit/

[Anonymous No.20931718]

What is Italian academia like? I want to move to Italy, please help me Italians

[Anonymous No.20931720]

>>20931246
What do we think about "Zeno's Conscience" by Italo Svevo?
I picked it up at a book sale haven't started it & have never read the author before. What am I in for?

[Anonymous No.20931746]

>>20931718
a mess.

[Anonymous No.20931793]

>>20931644
No Calvino?

[Anonymous No.20931819]

>>20931684
Mega kek

[Anonymous No.20931822]

>>20931684
proto-/lit/izen

[Anonymous No.20931825]

>>20931718
Bunch of boring commies.

[Anonymous No.20931831]

>>20931720
Pretty great first chapter, the other 4 are up and down, especially the final ones. It's a personal favourite but it's sometimes a slog to get through, but i found it very interesting

[Anonymous No.20931942]

>>20931831
I disagree, the last chapter is a masterpiece. One of the most wild and complex literary representations of the apocalypse ever written.

The reason why sometimes it's a slog is because it's dense and challenging in the same way Joyce is, although Svevo was careful enough not to deform his language to the point of ugliness.

[Anonymous No.20931980]

>>20931684
it's a joke about neapolitans, not about literature. good joke.

[Anonymous No.20931993]

>>20931718
Italy has some of the most difficult universities in the West. I'm not necessarily talking about quality, I'm talking about the effort they require. There's much to study, professors are very demanding and overall they're institutions that take themselves very seriously, unlike the circus that anglo-american academia has become. You definitely learn a lot. However there are many downsides: they're expensive, they lack the right support for any kind of needs a student can have, and the teachers and researchers are often too closed in terms of cultural references and ways of working. I have to say most of them are open to discussion though. It also depends by where you go, there are so many prestigious universities in Italy, but they're all different. I won't even make a list of the best ones because there are too many that deserve a mention, really.

[Anonymous No.20932020]

>>20931427
Dumb question, it depends by the genre you're interested in. If you're interested in epics, Ariosto is up there sitting next to Homer. Everyone reads Homer because he's considered the father of Western literature, so somewhat of a prerequisite, but after that epic literature is vastly neglected. In the future, when it will gain popularity and importance again, Ariosto and Tasso will be studied and venerated again.

(Brief reminder that Dante remained in the shadow of oblivion for almost 500 years, something the average anglo still struggles to understand).

[Anonymous No.20932749]

>>20931296
>Ariosto shits all over German Romanticism but of course you haven't read him.
how to spot an intellectually inept sicilian

[Anonymous No.20933939]

>>20931684
>14 duels for no reason
I'm thinking he has the same condition as picrel. What the fuck were their problems?

[Anonymous No.20934083]

>>20931993
>they're expensive
??? Unless you're talking about private unis, that is.

[Anonymous No.20934114]

>>20931246
Has a Russian ever wrote something like picrel?
i don't think so

[Anonymous No.20934283]

>>20934083
Faggot in other countries they pay you to study, in Italy it's 2500-3000 euros per year in the cheapest university, take meds

[Anonymous No.20934293]

I read Buzzati's The Tartar Steppe and liked it.

[Anonymous No.20934295]

>>20934114
The answer is no

[Anonymous No.20934298]

Decent bait, Russians are irrelevant besides the great Nabokov

[Anonymous No.20934303]

>>20934293
Your next read: Tommaso Landolfi.

[Anonymous No.20934310]

>>20931993
>they're expensive
Are they? I have some italian family and they keep asking me if I would like to go to italy to live with them and study for free. I assumed they actually meant for free.

[Anonymous No.20934316]

>>20934310
Bullshit, it's at least 2000-2500 euros per year, but in the most "renowned" ones it's more

[Anonymous No.20934351]

>>20931793
normie shlock

[Anonymous No.20934363]

>>20934316
That's still nothing compared to US and UK

[Anonymous No.20934535]

>>20934283
It depends on your "ISEE", which is how much money you or your family make and how much stuff you own

[Anonymous No.20934554]

>>20934283
>2500-3000 euros per year
>expensive
I povery, signori.

[Anonymous No.20934815]

>>20931246
>English-speaking dudes talk about literature and shitting on italian culture

>3000 years of history

You must be joking. Literal meme. Fuck off to /pol/ retard.

[Anonymous No.20935265]

>>20934298
Baiting or retarded

[Anonymous No.20935851]

>>20931275
>French realism
lol

[Anonymous No.20936246]

>>20931260
*Ahem*

[Anonymous No.20936804]

>>20931644
>Manganelli
my negro

[Anonymous No.20937847]

>>20934554
Vai in Scandinavia, povero stronzo, e poi vedi quanto devi sborsare per fare un servizio allo Stato. Zero.

Siete ancora in quel pozzo di merda che è la concezione per cui ti devi meritare lo studio con i soldi. Svegliatevi, i memini della destra non sono applicabili ad minchiam in qualsiasi contesto.

[Anonymous No.20937862]

>>20937847
succhiami il cazzo

[Anonymous No.20937870]

>>20931644
Nice dubs, but you forgot La Scapigliatura

[Anonymous No.20937983]

>>20937847
Ah lasagna portabella Mario!

[Anonymous No.20938009]

>>20937983
You handicapped obese bags of trash deserve death

[Anonymous No.20938047]

I've only read The Leopard (Lampedusa), The Tartar Steppe (Buzzati) and Contempt (Moravia) and really enjoyed them. Anyone got a chart?

[Anonymous No.20938109]

>>20938047
I do not, but explore Malaparte. I think he'll be right up your alley

[Anonymous No.20938436]

>>20938109
Thanks - turns out my library has a couple Malaparte NYRBs

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20938439]

>>20931684
laughed out loud

[Anonymous No.20939490]

>>20931993
Meh
>Sapienza
>Bologna
>Padova
The rest is trash, especially Siena

[Anonymous No.20939546]

>>20931246
They have a rich philosophical tradition that sadly gets ignored in favor of the frogs

[Anonymous No.20939554]

First Italian book I ever read was Io Non Ho Paura. Hated it, not a good introduction. Hate that it's one of the most popular Italian books.

[Anonymous No.20939595]

>>20931720
It's my favorite book, enjoy the ride.

[Anonymous No.20939615]

>>20939554
>one of the most popular Italian books

Never heard about it and I'm italian. Maybe u're talking about it being famous abroad. I'm pretty sure anyone could advice you dozens of other pieces of italian literature as an introduction

[Anonymous No.20939622]

>>20939615
Not him but here in the UK we get taught it if you take Italian as a subject in school. Lo odio anch'io.

[Anonymous No.20939633]

>>20931246
The French reign supreme, and the reason they're sometimes underrated is because of their unrivaled output of literary classics. With the Russians, Italians, and others you can simply name the dozen or so great classics, but the French have hundreds to choose from.

[Anonymous No.20939931]

>>20939633
French dominate in quantity, but not in quality, where they are slightly bellow the russians.

[Anonymous No.20940166]

>>20931684
this is /lit/ arguing over nick land without ever reading FN

[Anonymous No.20940736]

>>20938047
You might like The Garden of the Finzi-Continis by Giorgio Bassani and The Viceroys by Federico De Roberto.

The magical realism of Buzzati leads to Tommaso Landolfi, Alberto Savinio, Giorgio De Chirico, Massimo Bontempelli, Anna Maria Ortese and Guido Morselli. All great authors.

[Anonymous No.20940743]

>>20939554
>>20939622
It's a mainstream novel that will never be mentioned in books of literary history. Hope this is enough to understand what you read.

[Anonymous No.20940809]

>>20939633
This is a distorted perception of reality. You are talking as a modern man inside the modern era. Of course you only see the French. They have gone through the fluorishing of literary realism thanks to the novelties brought by their national history (the collapse of the monarchy, the French revolution, Napoleon, the making of Paris, etc). All the shit was happening there. But the Italian 20th century is way more complex and rich than the French counterparty. Fascism, avant-garde movements, the war that hit very hard and messed up the country from north to south, the economic boom, etc. In comparison, French history became quiet. And this is clearly visible if you look at the stunning number of great Italian authors of last century, in all fields. Great novelists, great poets, great historians, great philosophers. You just don't know a lot of them because you probably don't speak Italian, and three quarters of this shit is not translated.

[Anonymous No.20941122]

>>20939633
>The French reign supreme
Nothing like paying Dumas by word count lmao. French classics are dreadful

[Anonymous No.20941792]

>>20939546
>They have a rich philosophical tradition
This. Italian post-Heidegger philosophy is simply the most interesting in the world.

[Anonymous No.20942109]

[Anonymous No.20943379]

>>20937847
>Vai in Scandinavia
No, grazie, ho già completato il mio percorso universitario, per giunta ad un prezzo molto inferiore ai "2500-3000 euro all'anno dell'università meno costosa".
E non cambia il fatto che stiamo messi molto meglio di Paesi come gli USA dove la gente richiede il mutuo per pagare la retta.

[Anonymous No.20943429]

>>20934316
>>20937847
Access to higher education should be denied to plebs like you anyway (and yes, you can study basically for free in Italy, IF indeed you can prove you are poor). Feel free to leave for some imaginary Scandiland where everything works perfectly (spoiler: it does not and I can tell you that first hand). Italy will survive regardless.

[Anonymous No.20944601]

>>20931825
this

[Anonymous No.20944612]

>>20943429
NTA but what is wrong with Scandinavia from your experience?

[Anonymous No.20944623]

What's the best translation for The Betrothed?

[Anonymous No.20944675]

>>20941122
You're the dumbass for considering Dumas a "classic"

[Anonymous No.20944712]

>>20943379
>>20943429
Fare un casino così per una semplice affermazione... Vi siete mai chiesti se venite su questo sito per polemizzare come dei vecchi al bar (= buttare il proprio tempo), o per parlare effettivamente di letteratura? Siete ridicoli e stupidi. Far partire subito il paragone tra l'Italia e gli Stati Uniti significa non avere il senso della misura e il senso del discorso. Significa, sostanzialmente, non capire un cazzo e non saper dialogare. Ha senso mettere l'Italia sullo stesso piano della merda? Non era ovvio che la sproporzione del caso americano fosse esclusa dal discorso? Il campo di riferimento è quello europeo, e se uno vuole studiare, in Italia servono i soldi. In Gran Bretagna ne servono di più, in Danimarca è gratis. E allora? Ciò non toglie che se non hai i genitori a pagarti persino la schedina telefonica dovrai fare dei sacrifici. È giusto, non è giusto? Tralascio questa stronzata di argomento, perché non stiamo dibattendo di morale. E non a caso non ho espresso nessuna posizione al riguardo, voi l'avete fatto (come degli ignoranti). Mi sono limitato a dire all'anonimo, che magari proviene dalla Cambogia o dal Perù, che studiare in Italia costa più che altrove. Se volete negare pure questo fatelo, ma sappiate che fate una figura meschina. P.S.: la caciara politica dei ritardati è su diochan, buona fortuna.

[Anonymous No.20944716]

>>20931357
based

[Anonymous No.20944754]

>>20931357
holy based, dubs confirm

[Anonymous No.20944956]

>>20944716
>>20944754

[Anonymous No.20945147]

>>20944712
Man, look at you, you think you are some kind of hot shit but it seems to me you can't even write a full post in proper English. Are we being too rude to you? Fucking unfair, isn't it? My little daisy, you are just not ready for the big league. Stay in your contained Italian board and keep bitching there until you learn how to roll with the punches.

[Anonymous No.20945198]

>>20944675
>Three Musketeers isn't a classic
>The Count of Monte Cristo isn't a classic
Who's the dumbass?

[Anonymous No.20945259]

>>20931357
based and /lit/pilled

[Anonymous No.20945265]

>>20931684

[Anonymous No.20945485]

>>20945147
I don't have the voglia to reply to low-tier baits

[Anonymous No.20945590]

>>20945485
Of course anon, of course. Don't let us detain you.

[Anonymous No.20945624]

>>20934303
Which book?

[Anonymous No.20945630]

I wish Italians would cuck less to Frenchfags

[Anonymous No.20945751]

>>20945624
Gogol's Wife

[Anonymous No.20946163]

>>20945624
Cancerqueen

[Anonymous No.20946273]

>>20931718
>What is Italian academia like?
Have you ever seen a Bosch painting?

[Anonymous No.20946281]

>>20946273
kek

[Anonymous No.20946292]

>>20938009
Obsessed

[Anonymous No.20946298]

>>20942109
Good book though I haven't read all of it

[Anonymous No.20946352]

>>20946292
Then stop making fun of our language.

[Anonymous No.20946354]

>>20931942
>>20931720
always worth mentioning svevo was friends with joyce

[Anonymous No.20946360]

>>20946354
Yes and Joyce wrote letters to him in Italian.

[Anonymous No.20946379]

Watching mainlanders fight about whose literature is the best is like watching rats fight over the last scrap of meat that just slid off my plate.

[Anonymous No.20946383]

give me the 5 best poems in the italian language, don't care if there is a translation or not.

[Anonymous No.20946459]

>>20946383
It's impossible to name only 5.

Giacomo Leopardi - L'infinito
Eugenio Montale - Spesso il male di vivere ho incontrato
Gabriele D'Annunzio - La pioggia nel pineto
Torquato Tasso - Canzone al Metauro
Dino Campana - La notte
Salvatore Quasimodo - Ed è subito sera
Giuseppe Ungaretti - Il porto sepolto
Angelo Poliziano - Stanze per la giostra
Francesco Petrarca - Erano i capei d'oro a l'aura sparsi
Guido Cavalcanti - Voi che per li occhi mi passaste 'l core
Edoardo Sanguineti - Laborintus 1
Isabella di Morra - D’un alto monte onde si scorge il mare
Ugo Foscolo - A Zacinto
Eugenio Montale - I limoni
Alessandro Manzoni - Il cinque maggio
Giacomo Leopardi - La ginestra
Giovanni Pascoli - L'assiuolo
Dante Alighieri - Tanto gentile e tanto onesta pare
San Francesco d'Assisi - Cantico delle creature
Giosuè Carducci - San Martino
Cesare Pavese - Verrà la morte e avrà i tuoi occhi
Filippo Tommaso Marinetti - Dominare
Giacomo Leopardi - A Silvia
etc.

[Anonymous No.20948037]

>>20931709
Of all the things you could have thought of, you think of le epic authoritarian le based political (dumb) thing. I can imagine the stench of cheetos.