/lit/ - Literature

>>20893740
>all-defining
Freudian slip. Natural law is dumb asses taking their arbitrary definitions as objective morality.

>>20893740
>Youtube
>Mark Passio
>Natural Law

>>20893740
>Shanna She Devil
Thank you for helping me discover great new art. I am grateful.

>>20893900
checked.
>Searched name.
>found picrel.

>natural law
>implying the way things were/are is the way things ought to be

>>20894472
St. Thomas I think solves that by arguing that everyone agrees that one should be good. Which is an axiom, but an unproblematic one. From there you fill out the concept of Good, and from THERE you get natural law.

>>20893740
Maybe Summa Contra Gentiles. There's also that modern philosopher who is trying to make it relevant again, Ed Feser. So some books of his maybe.

>>20894788
Good is when I do whatever I want.

>>20893740
Natural law is a morality system based on acting on one's higher nature. If a man or animal acts towards its higher nature, it cannot harm the whole. When a man, animal, or other being acts against its nature, it harms the function of the whole, and is therefore immoral. Boom mortality solved

Here's a simple, concise definition of natural law.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aquinas/#NatLaw

>>20894819
I think you'll find that "good" leads to misery

>>20894788
Didn't realize he wrote a book on Nozick, nice.

>>20894472
OP's pic is life-affirming and instills in me a vitality, yet whenever I see your's I think of a fat decadent bourgeois faggot bloated in both ego and stomach capacity, so I'm convinced OP is in the right.

>>20894833
Based utilitarian. The good is what doesn't lead to misery.

>>20893900
Relax son it's just a drawing

>>20894823
>harming the "whole" bad.
>acting on higher nature good.
why are these objectively good and bad? define harm, nature, higher nature, and function.

>>20895312
>life-affirming

>>20893740
Origin of Species

>>20895684
>define harm
Impairing the function of the whole (working towards the destruction of cyclical history)
>Higher Nature
The attributes and functions of the higher form connected to a being

>>20893853
Not if god exists.

>>20895802
So commit suicide already, ya bag of shit

>>20895802
Yes, Cioran was a life-affirming pessimist and he’s my goat

>>20894472
>>20894472
Not at all.

Evolution implies that society will change over time as the environment selects for new traits, just like animals change over time as the environment selects for for new traits. Material conditions create societies and culture. If you combine Darwinism/Natural Law/Natural Selection with Marx’s Materialism, it makes perfect sense.

Good books and philosophers of natural law?

>>20894472
>>20897007
To add onto this: Marx did believe that despite morality being mostly subjective to cultures and created by their material conditions, that there were also eternal truths which can be found in every culture because they are inherent to human nature. You can read about that in chapter 2 of the communist manifesto.

>>20895684
We perceive humans as "up" because we walk upright, we perceive immorality as animal-like because they're "down" closer to the ground. Not that anon, he probably didn't know this but yeah. That's the reason. Whatever he said remains vague without the explanation.

>>20894788
>St. Thomas I think solves that by arguing that everyone agrees that one should be good. Which is an axiom, but an unproblematic one.

You think a muslim views this in exactly the same way as a christian does?

>>20897017
The communist manifesto is for barely literate factory workers not philosophers

>>20897105
We perceive immorality as animalistic because animals lack the ability to choose to follow their nature. They must follow it by default. Man, however, exists in both the physical and spiritual world, giving him the option to either follow his base instincts or strive towards his higher nature.

Animals, plants, etc, are by default moral because they do not have the ability to act immorally.

>>20893740
Since when do cave-wenches have lipstick and eyeshadow?

>>20893740
Natural law refers to natural rights which are what a man can do in a state of nature aka isolation. Everything a man can do after he is born in a state of isolation (for example a desert island) is his right to do by nature.

>>20898046
You cannot prove this.

>>20893900
>Googles

Holy crap this is awesome.

>>20898056
Ancient Egyptians figured out kohl and classical Japanese figured out lipstick

>>20898075
Can you at least engage with my post so you can tell me why I am wrong?

>>20893740
your reason

>>20893740
Read Ellul.

Is there a normie book going over natural law? For perspective I'm to relate natural law to the one the founding fathers had in mine when creating the United States. I'm an American and I'm trying to get more in tuned with my country's original philosophy since it seems its all just "CONSUME CULTURE" now.

>>20893740
The Daodejing

>>20894788
>St. Thomas I think solves that by arguing that everyone agrees that one should be good. Which is an axiom, but an unproblematic one. From there you fill out the concept of Good, and from THERE you get natural law.
How does he get from "people should be good" to natural law?

>>20893740
>>20893900
That's a man ass. Literally looks like ricardo's lower body except lighter.

>>20895625
I believe that misery is good though

>>20894823
Nature is by definition a complex system of actors behaving in divergent ways. Therefore everyone who acts "bad" is serving a function in nature, that means everyone is actually good.

>>20898457
I cannot disagree with this

>>20893740
James Carey, Natural Reason and Natural Law. Best articulation of natural law today and the best response to the smartest objections to it.

>>20898046
Plants and inanimate objects aren't conscious. Animals understand considerably less than we do and often lack opposable thumbs or language to communicate with us, but for the most part yes I'd agree animals are moral

Rather, the point I was originally trying to make: Morality and natural law comes from human evolution

>>20898046
Plants are more moral than animals.

>>20898195
ok

>>20898772
Therefore, carnivores are more moral than vegans.

>>20899121
Yes, fuck animals (figuratively). Plants are the real chads in nature and must be protected at all costs.

>>20898760
>Plants and inanimate objects aren't conscious
Plants and animals have social interactions, pain responses, and make decisions. They are conscious, just not on the level of people, since people have a spiritual aspect. In a way, inanimate objects as part of a greater system have some form of conscious too, in the same sense as a colonial organism.

>>20898772
Plants still make decisions like animals, just on a larger timescale and in different way. Many types of trees can bond with other trees' roots, form relationships with micorrhizal fungi, and let out chemicals and sound waves in response to pain. There must be some sort of consciousness that decides how a tree grows.

>>20899139
This is why vegans are gay. Unless you want to become a fag breatharian monk and completely remove yourself from struggle, you have to harm other things on order to live. In some ways, this is good though, because killing less for individuals in an animal population leads to heartier individuals on average.

>>20895909
Even if god exists. euthryphro dilemma

I feel like every thread on this board comes down to "is God real?" and/or "why can/can't I get laid?"
I will look into all of these book suggestions. Although I feel like I'd be better off simply asking what the best introduction to Aquinas is.

>>20899882
where's that from? a comic?

>>20893740
The Bible.

>>20893740
I guess John Finnis

>>20893740
God I wish that were me

>>20899882
>>20899895
>>20893740
She's hot.
>>20893900
>>Shanna She Devil
>Thank you for helping me discover great new art. I am grateful.
Awesome butts.

>>20895637
>Relax son it's just a drawing
No.

>>20895802
>>life-affirming
>>20895312
>OP's pic is life-affirming and instills in me a vitality, yet whenever I see your's I think of a fat decadent bourgeois faggot bloated in both ego and stomach capacity, so I'm convinced OP is in the right.
Bloated decadent glorified NEETs (that guy NEETe most of his life just to write books) don't deserve my respect. Only wagies do, bloated, balding wagies that have to make Wifey happy every day so that they avoid getting divorceraped and alimony'd

>>20902190
Cool fucking blog post, I love the part about natural law.

>>20902194
They always miss the mark, it's sad sometimes

>>20893740
Plato
Aquinas
Or The Bible, unironically.

>>20898046
>animals lack the ability to choose to follow their nature.
This is a blanket statement which has been proven wrong many times in many contexts. Only a midwit confounds the meeting of essential biological imperatives with choice. Indeed, you can choose to kill yourself, but you can't choose to stop breathing, your higher brain functions simply do not work like that. Many animals display behaviors that cannot be explained by biological imperarive only.
>by default moral
Extending morality to non-humans is a retarded notion. Perhaps I was too kind to assume you were at least midwit.

>>20897405
If he cant dumb his shit down for factory workers without retaining any non-trivial truths then its all smoke and mirrors

>>20904457
*losing, not retaining
god being an esl is suffering

>>20893740
I just finished reading De Sade's "Justine, or The Misfortunes of Virtue" and in every single chapter all the antagonists (and there are a lot of them) are talking about the "laws of nature". And I think what they are talking about is just De Sade's opinion. btw. the book is pretty repetitive. It's always the same. Justine naively trusts some stranger after fleeing from the perils of another torturer and rapist and finds herself once more in the hands of another even worse degenerate. And either before, in the middle or after another session of torture, rape, incest, pedophilia and murder the various antagonists talk about their philosophies, their life and their morals in a very long winded way. But it's always exactly the same: the law of nature is to take, fuck, torture, kill who you want, the law of society is just a hindrance and against nature. And (just as the title of the books spoils the whole idea) he who acts that way by raping and killing will be rewarded with wealth and luck, but he who tries to be a good citizen, lives a good life and tries to help others will suffer greatly and probably die a horrible death.

> Spooner never got around to writing his comprehensive treatise on natural law
It hurts so much bros...