[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 298 KB, 1024x1011, 1024px-Akhilleus_Patroklos_Antikensammlung_Berlin_F2278.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20879701 No.20879701 [Reply] [Original]

So did they fuck?

>> No.20879711

>>20879701
a lot of big names thought so but as for if homer thought so i dont think we have any way of knowing

>> No.20879753

Between the thighs isn't gay.

>> No.20879806

>>20879701
No proof they did not in literature nor in art, but plenty of proof of homosexuals projecting
Homosexuality in ancient Greece was pederasty, AKA child rape. No wonder homos obsess over it so much after all they're groomers

>> No.20879812

>>20879711
>a lot of big names thought so
What was the percentage of all greek philosophers who thought so, and how many of them were homos? The dude in symposium for example is a homosexual himself, trying to claim achilles
>omg u guyz he's just like meee!

>> No.20879818

>>20879701
No. Not everything has to be about sex.

>> No.20879839

>>20879812
who cares about percentage, im just saying some people who are extremely significant in the shaping of western culture happened to think achilles and patroclus were fucking. of course they were biased and not homer's contemporaries but they were closer than us

>> No.20880024

>>20879701
Of course they were. Why wouldn’t they? There were no hang ups about it then. In fact you weren’t a real man unless you had a young twink butt buddy to display your dominance and ability to be a role model.

>> No.20880040

>>20879701
They didn't, Homer describes them together in the tent each at a separate bed each fucking their own slave girl
Latter Greeks thought they fucked but they were gay homos and wrong

>> No.20880245

>>20880040
yeah right, the thing is it would be less gay if they just fucked. but it's clear they loved each other. achilles literally says that he wished everyone died, both Trojans and Greeks, except him and patroclus.
he also rips his hair off when he dies and screams so loud that the gods hear it.

>> No.20880250

>>20880245
not to mention that he de facto killed himself after his patroclus died, I don't know who would do all of this for a "friend".

>> No.20880305

>>20879753
so long as the balls don't touch

>> No.20880322

>>20879701
Anyone who says they didn't is just in denial. The "Russian taunt" of historical literature.

>> No.20880333

>>20880245
>>20880250
>t. has never had a friend
You just proved he did it for a brother and not some fuck buddy. I wouldn't do that for a thing I stick my dick into. I would just protect my property but it wouldn't be dramatic at all.

>> No.20880340

>>20880333
that might just be you bro i think i would be quite distressed if my girlfriend was killed and i stick my dick in her

>> No.20880345

>>20880333
>t-they were just friends
yeah, I me and the bros hang out with our wangs out all the time, like bros do. sometimes we even jack each other off (in a completely platonic way of course) just like REAL bros should.

>> No.20880352

>>20880333
I quite literally stated that he wasn't just a fuck buddy but his lover. no wonder your opinions are objectively wrong when you can't even read, nigger.

>> No.20880372

>>20879701
The fact that so many people are unable to understand a warrior like Achilles cries for his fallen comrade if there's no buggery invovled says how much friendship has been devaluated in our woke-socialist world.

>> No.20880385

>>20880372
dumbass

>> No.20880395

>>20880372
this is the npc response that gets posted with almost the same wording every time, as if this was some modern twitter fanfiction and not something that has been debated for a long long time

>> No.20880503

Achilles was a necrophile too so he was probably all kinds of fucked up

>> No.20880579

>>20880245
What is the consensus on Alexander and hephaestion?

>> No.20880697

>>20880333
>has never fucked a friend
It's a good bonding ritual anon. Ever wondered what your friend's thighs feel like? Achilles did

>> No.20881590

>>20880579
Didn't they visit Achilles and Patroklos' supposed tomb together?
Kinda gay man...

>> No.20881826

>>20879818
sex is good pleasue in the peepee/vaginal zone. It make me feel good man.

>> No.20881828

>>20880503
all great men are degenerates and have coomer fetishes

>> No.20881871

Greek Homosexuality (1978; second edition 1989; third edition 2016) is a book about homosexuality in ancient Greece by the classical scholar Kenneth Dover, in which the author uses archaic and classical archaeological and literary sources to discuss ancient Greek sexual behavior and attitudes. He addresses the iconography of vase paintings, the speeches in the law courts, and the comedies of Aristophanes, as well as the content of other literary and philosophical source texts.

>> No.20882261

>>20879701
no

>> No.20882648

>>20880352
Your definition for "lover" and a fuck buddy are one and the same faggot

>> No.20882743

>>20882648
I literally never said anything that could imply that. stop projecting on me, internalized homophobia faggot. go cope with your gay feelings somewhere else

>> No.20883098

>>20879701
They were cousins through Aegina

>> No.20883114
File: 331 KB, 1854x1467, 1633250356252.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20883114

no

>> No.20883158

>>20879701
everyone who says they fucked is a nigger faggot projecting his own homosexuality
[31] Or again, Niceratus, Homer pictures us Achilles looking upon Patroclus not as the object of his passion but as a comrade, and in this spirit signally avenging his death. So we have songs telling also how Orestes, Pylades, Theseus, Peirithous, and many other illustrious demi-gods wrought glorious deeds of valour side by side, not because they shared a common bed but because of mutual admiration and respect.
Xenophon Symposium

>> No.20883223

no
source: I astrally projected there

>> No.20883254

>>20883158
*quotes someone who shares his opinion as if it's gonna change mine*

>> No.20883266

>>20883254
go ahead, quote another ancient greek source that says otherwise...
oh wait... you can't you dick sucking faggot

>> No.20883623

>>20883266
>Pindar's comparison of the adolescent boxer Hagesidamus and his trainer Ilas to Patroclus and Achilles in Olympian 10.16–21 (476 BC) as well as the comparison of Hagesidamus to Zeus' lover Ganymede in Olympian 10.99–105 suggest that student and trainer had a romantic relationship, especially after Aeschylus' depiction of Achilles and Patroclus as lovers in his play Myrmidons.
>Further evidence of this debate is found in a speech by an Athenian politician, Aeschines, at his trial in 345 BC. Aeschines, in placing an emphasis on the importance of paiderasteia to the Greeks, argues that though Homer does not state it explicitly, educated people should be able to read between the lines: "Although (Homer) speaks in many places of Patroclus and Achilles, he hides their love and avoids giving a name to their friendship, thinking that the exceeding greatness of their affection is manifest to such of his hearers as are educated men."
Whoops!

>> No.20883669

Achilles and Patroclus doesn't even work well, since Achilles is the stronger and nobler, but Patroclus is older while Achilles is a beardless youth. Who's supposed to be the top in that situation?

>>20880579
Unlike Achilles and Patroclus, they definitely fucked.

>> No.20883710

>>20883669
>Achilles and Patroclus doesn't even work well, since Achilles is the stronger and nobler, but Patroclus is older while Achilles is a beardless youth. Who's supposed to be the top in that situation?
Interestingly enough, even Plato wrote about that.
>In Plato's Symposium, written c. 385 BC, the speaker Phaedrus holds up Achilles and Patroclus as an example of divinely approved lovers. Phaedrus argues that Aeschylus erred in claiming Achilles was the erastes because Achilles was more beautiful and youthful than Patroclus (characteristics of the eromenos) as well as more noble and skilled in battle (characteristics of the erastes). Instead, Phaedrus suggests that Achilles is the eromenos whose reverence of his erastes, Patroclus, was so great that he would be willing to die to avenge him.

>> No.20883814

>I hate fags therefore nothing in history ever was gay
>I love fags therefore everything in history ever was gay
don't you niggers ever get tired of having this argument, it's not like you're going to convince anyone or come to new enlightening conclusions

>> No.20883981

>>20879701
Where does Achillies being held by his heel and dipped in magical water to make him invulnerable come from, Homer? Because i'am reading Apollodorus right now in preparation for The Illiad and it doesn't appear anywhere, it' said that Thetis was putting him in fire by night to burn away the mortal part of him but when Peleus found out he stopped the practice and that's it.

>> No.20884068

>>20879812
He said that because it was the common interpretation at the time.

>> No.20884172

>>20883623
>posts faggot's interpretations
also Aeschines' speech is against homosexuality lol
illiterate faggot
woops
but even if the "source" you posted contradicted my point I could've just used the *quotes someone who shares his opinion as if it's gonna change mine* faggotness you used against me, making you double stupid, you cocksucker lol

>> No.20884213

>>20884172
In a year or two you too will be a faggot anon. Faggotry is coming for all of us. You had better start preparing your butthole for it.

>> No.20884227

>>20884213
you are correct, my mind is changed

>> No.20884247

>>20879701
it's a private matter and none of our business

>> No.20884334

>>20884172
Listen buddy what you're asking for is impossible
>post a nonfaggot that says they were faggots
>anybody who says they were faggots is a faggot
Judging by this you're already a faggot, fagtron

>> No.20884601

>>20883981
the whole "achilles heel" thing is actually not from Iliad but later stories.

>> No.20884845

>>20884334
nobody posted someone who said they were faggots

>> No.20884867

>>20880024
Return to tradition

>> No.20884895

>>20884845
illiterate

>> No.20884920

>>20884895
cope and post some original greek text that says homosexuality and sexual acts between men was a widely accepted phenomenon in ancient greece
ooh i forgot the only thing you can do is suck dick and dilate you fucking faggot lolololololol
εἰ δέ τις παιδὸς σώματος ὀρεγόμενος φανείη, αἴσχιστον τοῦτο θεὶς ἐποίησεν ἐν Λακεδαίμονι μηδὲν ἧττον ἐραστὰς παιδικῶν ἀπέχεσθαι ἢ γονεῖς παίδων ἢ καὶ ἀδελφοὶ ἀδελφῶν εἰς ἀφροδίσια ἀπέχονται. 14 τὸ μέντοι ταῦτα ἀπιστεῖσθαι ὑπό τινων οὐ θαυμάζω· ἐν πολλαῖς γὰρ τῶν πόλεων οἱ νόμοι οὐκ ἐναντιοῦνται ταῖς πρὸς τοὺς παῖδας ἐπιθυμίαις.

>> No.20884957

>>20884920
>now you need to post something completely different than what I originally asked for
What

>> No.20884965

>>20884957
>quote another ancient greek source that says otherwise...
>post some original greek text that says homosexuality and sexual acts between men was a widely accepted phenomenon in ancient greece
"completelty different"
lol dont they teach you faggots how to read or something?
embarassing...

>> No.20885080

>>20880040
Yeah it's totally normal for two straight dudes to fuck girls in front of each other. Obviously it was there foreplay they liked seeing each other fucking in realtime. Threesomes with MMF and gangbangs are usually so the guys can be closet homos watching as much dick as they can. Remember if you watch straight porn with guys fucking girls you're actually homo wanting to suck the guy's dick.

>> No.20885090

>>20883710
>start with the greeks they said
it's just faggots discussing their yaoi fanfiction

>> No.20885181

>>20883981
It's a later Roman invention. On the one hand, Zeus is Jupiter and Jupiter is Rome's head-God. On the other hand, the Romans are Trojans, and the Trojans are enemies of the Greeks, and Zeus backed Achilles. So they justified it with theology about Achilles getting dipped in the river which makes him "invulnerable", whereas in Homer it's just Zeus's will that nothing can hurt Achilles, so nothing can.

>> No.20885223

>>20884965
You didn't even try to respond to those sources where those guys thought they were in a romantic relationship
If that doesn't mean faggotry to you you could just say that
Very autistic bait anon

>> No.20885241

>>20883981
>>20884601
does that part happen in the one where he rapes the dead Amazon queen or the one with the African kang?

>> No.20885399

>>20885223
>suggests
As I said, it is a faggot's interpretation

>> No.20885442

>>20879711
>as for if homer thought so i dont think we have any way of knowing
homer didn't think anon, he wasn't a noob
he just retreated to the foot of Mount Olympus and thoroughly enjoys all the speculation since he composed the original
Homer, I raise my glass to you

>> No.20885605

>>20884920
the fact that some greeks (even if they were homos themselves) discussed the possibility of legendary heroes being gay and that these writings weren't censored and destroyed speaks for itself
in medieval Europe you didn't have anyone speculating about King Arthur's knights buttfucking each other

>> No.20885749

>>20885605
But it was common knowledge in Britain that as soon as anybody stepped foot on a boat buggery would inevitably happen

>> No.20885841

>>20885399
Back to >>20884334 again.
Face it, they were faggots. Now come out the closet already.