/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20837494]

>being born is... LE BAD

Well, he ain't wrong... Can't find a good counter argument

[Anonymous No.20837514]

Antinatalist is one of the most passionate humane philosophy that is out there, never found a good counter argument for it.

[Anonymous No.20837637]

>>20837494
Yeah sure, but that you were never born and that you will never die, that nothing has come into existence so that it can go out of existence and that life itself insofar as it grasps onto something other than this immutable truth, that there really is something happening, or something coming and going is all an illusion - is but common sense.

So what "problem of being born" is there, neither were you nor I ever born, and neither will any of us die.

[Anonymous No.20837655]

i think the fundamental crux of his argument that giving birth is bad because it is done without the consent of the person being born can be countered effectively by a simple thought experiment where the person being born is brought into an environment which is pleasant enough to guarantee retroactive consent that they were born

[Anonymous No.20837668]

>>20837637
There is a thing called potentiality.

That's just like you always take the stairs rather than jumping out of the window. Or when sun go down and you say it will come up next day. Everything is a belief bro so why not this one too?

[Anonymous No.20837679]

>>20837637
Man
Philosophy just sounds like stupid word games

[Anonymous No.20837686]

> Benatar is the son of Solomon Benatar, a global-health expert who founded the Bioethics Centre at the University of Cape Town. Not much is known about Benatar's personal life as he deliberately guards his privacy. He has held antinatalist views since his childhood.[2]

[Anonymous No.20837697]

>>20837655
>is brought into an environment which is pleasant enough to guarantee retroactive consent that they were born
I hope you understand the philosophical backing this needs. Hard determinism. There is no way to guarantee consent under a system of free will no matter how good the environment is.

[Anonymous No.20837713]

>>20837494
What a fucking loser.

[Anonymous No.20837714]

>>20837514
Benatar is not antinatalist he's negative utilitarian. He said as much on Harris' podcast

[Anonymous No.20837715]

>>20837655
The human condition is inherently displeasurable.

[Anonymous No.20837747]

>>20837494
>>20837514
kill yourselves. there, got your refutation right there.

[Anonymous No.20837759]

Pessimism is the Perennial Truth

Wisdom Of Silenus:
>"You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: 'you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.' It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living."

Ecclesiastes 4:1
>Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun: I saw the tears of the oppressed-- and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors-- and they have no comforter.

Ecclesiastes 4:2
>And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive.

Ecclesiastes 4:3
>But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.


XI - CONCLUSION, THE DIALOGUE OF PESSIMISM, MESOPOTAMIAN WISDOM

>What then is good? To have my neck and yours broken, Or to be thrown into the river, is that good?

>Who is so tall as to ascend to heaven? Who is so broad as to encompass the entire world?

First Two Noble Truth of Buddhism:
>dukkha (suffering, incapable of satisfying, painful) is an innate characteristic of existence in the realm of samsara;
>samudaya (origin, arising) of this dukkha, which arises or "comes together" with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment")

[Anonymous No.20837798]

>>20837679
All philosophy really does is restate A=A using different words.

[Anonymous No.20837812]

>>20837494
https://youtu.be/KkkJ4HztuQ0

[Anonymous No.20837816]

>>20837812
Haha.

[Anonymous No.20837822]

>>20837655
The unborn person does not exist, and doing something to something that doesn't exist cannot be morally evaluated.

[Anonymous No.20837828]

>>20837686
Very interesting.

[Anonymous No.20837891]

>>20837697
>I hope you understand the philosophical backing this needs. Hard determinism.

[Anonymous No.20837902]

>>20837715
but not so much so that life is inherently not worth living or bringing others into
my life certainly isnt that displeasurable

[Anonymous No.20838389]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20838687]

>>20837759
more quotes

[Anonymous No.20839076]

>>20837715
are you a virgin?

[Anonymous No.20839161]

>>20837494
>>20837514
https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

>Benatar's policy prescription is untenable. Radical anti-natalism as a recipe for human extinction will fail because any predisposition to share that bias will be weeded out of the population. Radical anti-natalist ethics is self-defeating: there will always be selection pressure against its practitioners. Complications aside, any predisposition not to have children or to adopt is genetically maladaptive. On a personal level, the decision not to bring more suffering into the world and forgo having children is morally admirable. But voluntary childlessness or adoption is not a global solution to the problem of suffering.

>Yet how should rational moral agents behave if - hypothetically - some variant of Benatar's diagnosis as distinct from policy prescription was correct?

>In an era of biotechnology and unnatural selection, an alternative to anti-natalism is the world-wide adoption of genetically preprogrammed well-being. For there needn't be selection pressure against gradients of lifelong adaptive bliss - i.e. a radical recalibration of the hedonic treadmill. The only way to eradicate the biological substrates of unpleasantness - and thereby prevent the harm of Darwinian existence - is not vainly to champion life's eradication, but instead to ensure that sentient life is inherently blissful. More specifically, the impending reproductive revolution of designer babies is likely to witness intense selection pressure against the harmfulness-promoting adaptations that increased the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment of adaptation. If we use biotechnology wisely, then gradients of genetically preprogrammed well-being can make all sentient life subjectively rewarding - indeed wonderful beyond the human imagination. So in common with "positive" utilitarians, the "negative" utilitarian would do better to argue for genetically preprogrammed superhappiness.

[Anonymous No.20839334]

>>20837715
if it's so displeasurable then kill yourself, just sit in the car in the garage until you die. It won't even hurt.

if you can't do this then obviously even your mediocre existence is still good enough to continue living