/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20780813]

>The rebellion of the middle class … was also a revolt of youth, and as such it has set a pattern which has been followed with variations only of detail by each subsequent generation of youthful rebels – the bohemians of the 20s, the radicals of the 30s and 40s, the beatniks and the hipsters of the 50s. The mass society, lacking the cohesive influences that make a society into a community, tends to break up into smaller communities, autonomous, self-contained, and having no viable connection with the whole. The existence of a “youth problem,” a phenomenon mistakenly regarded as a problem of inadequate law enforcement or of a decline of public morality or of society’s failure to provide adequate incentives for young people, in reality signifies the emergence of an autonomous youth-culture. Even “rebellion” no longer accurately describes the relation of young people – whether delinquent or merely “beat” – to American society, because their gestures of rebellion have long since lost their meaning and have become instead gestures of conformity to the culture of their contemporaries. With the decay of the older transmitters of cultural continuity – particularly the family and the school – the culture of their contemporaries claims young people almost from the instant of their exposure to influences outside the circle of their parents. They belong to it by default, for lack of alternatives.

This was written in 1994. Imagine how bad it is now with Tiktok.
Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?

[Anonymous No.20780838]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?

I can't. Start planning for this now.

[Anonymous No.20780847]

>>20780813
Zoomers are unironically les OG BVGMEN. What are you even talking about?

[Anonymous No.20780858]

Why did individualism fail bros?

[Anonymous No.20780876]

>>20780813
It’s collapsing now.
>youth culture
Again I bring up the name. John Taylor Gatto. Schooling is designed to dumb us down. It produces infantile adults for the corporate-state to herd around, in the workforce, the armed services, prisons, and out onto the streets. Even protests aren’t anything but asking for another slice of pizza.
Some other thread is asking about the supposed “feminization” of the world, but he’s diagnosing the problem all wrong.

[Anonymous No.20780891]

>>20780847
Zoomers are hyposocialized into the "culture of their contemporaries" meaning zoomer "culture" meaning they're the most conformist generation in a long time, meaning we're all fucked because they will lack any capacity for independent thought.

>... the citizen, constantly beside himself, knows only how to live in the opinion of others; inasmuch that it is, if I may say so, merely from their judgment that he derives the consciousness of his own existence.

[Anonymous No.20780904]

>>20780813
What a fucking faggot. I hate this commie """cultural""" theory bullshit. What he is trying to say is that death coping mechanism failed and he is no longer living in a obedient society. What he doesn't understand is Mainländer Will-to-Death, which exist in humans just like their need for survival. Civilization rise and fall, deal with it. The same complexity which aids their, same complexity aids their fall. I am not a christcuck but the allegory of fall is the perfect one. We're in a consistent decline and there's nothing much we can do about it. Death is the true master. There was no hope in the first place. Man is an abyss.

>Work, worry, toil, and trouble are certainly the lot of almost all throughout their lives. But if all desires were fulfilled as soon as they arose, how then would people occupy their lives and spend their time? Suppose the human race were removed to Utopia where everything grew automatically and pigeons flew about ready roasted; where everyone at once found his sweetheart and had no difficulty in keeping her; then people would die of boredom or hang themselves; or else they would fight, throttle, and murder one another and so cause themselves more suffering than is now laid upon them by nature.

-Schopenhauer

[Anonymous No.20780911]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
Because society has already collapsed. There's no such thing as society, hasn't been for decades. Our relationships are economic, and will continue to be.

[Anonymous No.20780912]

>>20780904
stupid and pretentious

[Anonymous No.20780917]

>>20780858
Because it has been taken to an absurd extreme.
In balance it’s fine. Hell even this >>20780876 has a balance. There are wonderful aspects to childhood one could and should hold onto. But all in all, you, funko-pop collectors, Etc. We’re all so very childish. Neets, otaku are just an extremity of the effects, but each generation is getting worse, and it’s the ruling class and the obscene “wealth” that’s to blame. That breaks down, do not DO NOT go crying to a big daddy to rule the lands with an iron fist. That’s no remedy.

[Anonymous No.20780921]

>>20780891
My point is: how is this any different from any other time in History?

[Anonymous No.20780923]

>>20780921
Societies do collapse eventually, things aren't eternal or whatever, but still, I can't see how they are getting worse or whatever.

[Anonymous No.20780933]

>>20780912
Keeping coping commie

[Anonymous No.20780944]

>>20780921
Read the OP.

[Anonymous No.20780952]

>>20780813
wow he said all that and somehow said absolutely nothing at all.

[Anonymous No.20780967]

>wow he said all that and somehow said absolutely nothing at all.

[Anonymous No.20780977]

Marxoids are subhuman

[Anonymous No.20780976]

>>20780933
no you're the commie!

[Anonymous No.20780989]

>>20780976
How so? I have some commie sympathies but nothing major

[Anonymous No.20780996]

>wow he said all that and somehow said absolutely nothing at all.

[Anonymous No.20781002]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
Because chess have been crying about “muh collapse” for seemingly forever and it doesn’t happen.

[Anonymous No.20781005]

>>20780989
Lasch is no commie. He refutes Marx.

[Anonymous No.20781029]

>>20781002
It’s happening now though. You expect this to take two hours or something?

[Anonymous No.20781031]

>>20780911
Alright Thatcher, crawl back in your grave now.

[Anonymous No.20781068]

>>20781005
He is a conservative commie.

[Anonymous No.20781093]

>>20781031
I cannot believe that woman still lives rent free in the heads of British leftists. Not even Hitler has caused that much whining and he’s been dead far lo no we than her

[Anonymous No.20781095]

>>20781031
I cannot believe that woman still lives rent free in the heads of British leftists. Not even Hitler has caused that much whining and rage and he’s been dead far longer than her

[Anonymous No.20781153]

>>20781068
Seems to me he didn't put Marx above other socialists like Sorel or Proudhon. You could say he was critical of capitalism, not really that he was a commie. An actual critique of Lasch would be to call out his reliance on Freud in his early work.

[Anonymous No.20781159]

>>20780944
Do you even realize what BVGMEN means?

[Anonymous No.20781189]

>>20780813>>20780876
>>20780911>>20781029


>>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
it wont because like any amerifat you beleive hisotry start in 1945.

breaking news:
-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created classical liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests
-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created new liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests

isnt it weird normies cant see the same people created the two political poles that normies fight for?

And guess classical liberalism started 300 CENTURIES AGO. NOT DECADES, FUCKING CENTURIES.
democratic republics were build by the bourgeois revolutionaries precisely to have a confluence between merchants (in finance and entertainment) and bureaucrats, ie they are both members of the bourgeois caste.
the dichotomy classical-new liberalism is completely fake in the first place. historically,
-rightists= monarchists
-leftists = republicans
guess what happens to the right when there is no more king because the bourgeois killed him. the answer is that the right becomes the left and there is only the choice between bourgeois and bourgeois lol and the bourgeois revolution is achieved whose only goal was dodging monarchist taxes........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
it's like the ''''''''''''''''''''american people'''''''''''''''''''''' was a just gimmick to seize power and create a society based on global mercantilism...
rebels without a cause...
when you don't have enough problems in your life,
you latch on to any sort of issue you can think of,
just in order to feel fulfilled and respectable

[Anonymous No.20781197]

>>20780813 >>20780876
>>20780911 >>20781029


>>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
it wont because like any amerifat you believe history started in 1945.

breaking news:
-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created classical liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests
-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created new liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests

isnt it weird normies cant see the same people created the two political poles that normies fight for?

And guess what:classical liberalism started 300 CENTURIES AGO. NOT DECADES, FUCKING CENTURIES.
democratic republics were build by the bourgeois revolutionaries precisely to have a confluence between merchants (in finance and entertainment) and bureaucrats, ie they are both members of the bourgeois caste.
the dichotomy classical-new liberalism is completely fake in the first place. historically,
-rightists= monarchists
-leftists = republicans
guess what happens to the right when there is no more king because the bourgeois killed him. the answer is that the right becomes the left and there is only the choice between bourgeois and bourgeois lol and the bourgeois revolution is achieved whose only goal was dodging monarchist taxes........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
it's like the ''''''''''''''''''''american people'''''''''''''''''''''' was a just gimmick to seize power and create a society based on global mercantilism...
rebels without a cause...
when you don't have enough problems in your life,
you latch on to any sort of issue you can think of,
just in order to feel fulfilled and respectable

[Anonymous No.20781574]

>>20780813
This is obviously old Lasch, his views have developed considerably on the points he covers, and he does a good job applying what he's saying here more or less to black ghetto culture. But he didn't write this in 1994, he wrote it in 1965.

[Anonymous No.20781612]

“Lasch” in German means kinda weak and boring and is used by youth to describe something pathetically weak.

People are named after what they produce.

[Anonymous No.20781614]

>>20780904
>What he is trying to say is that death coping mechanism failed and he is no longer living in a obedient society

Uh, no. People still death cope with consumerism; this is especially facilitated through narcissistic endeavors ala social media. Even the idea of participating in an obedient society -- more like a control society, but anyway -- harkens death cope as it creates relevance in a system.

[Anonymous No.20781634]

>>20781574
This quote is from The Revolt of the Elites (1994)

[Anonymous No.20781770]

>>20781634
No it's not, it's from The New Radicalism in America

[Anonymous No.20781835]

>>20780858
Because it was all a lie and literally just vibes

[Anonymous No.20782241]

>>20780858
Because it doesn't accurately describe reality. Virtually everybody that isn't part of the meritocratic professional-managerial-technological class or terminally brainwashed by it still approaches life in the same way; they want to marry a girl, buy a house, and get settled down in a career. Unlike the professional-managerial class, they see the home and the surrounding community as a place to live, have children, put down roots, raise a family, take care of elderly parents, grow old and die. If you approach life like this, individualism comes off as nonsensical and deeply offensive; of course I care about who my neighbors are, how good of people they are, what they do, how well they take care of their house and yard, etc, etc, etc. They feel they are part of the community and want that community to do well and be good. That's the truth, even for people that typically call themselves conservatives; I don't care that this homeless guy benefits from government services even though he doesn't pay taxes, I care that he's a mentally ill drug addict that scares kids, leaves drugs and dirty needles in the open, is likely to burgle or rob houses, and that he makes the neighborhood look like shit.

Lasch's critique of individualism is one of his most compelling elements. I don't do it justice here, read Lasch.

>>20780904
Lasch isn't a Marxist or communist. You sound like a faggot teenager.

[Anonymous No.20782534]

>>20780911
This

[Anonymous No.20782630]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
Whenever you think the culture can’t get worse, it will. It has. History proves this. Zoomers will be the boomers of 2050, and fresh horrors beyond your current comprehension will have been normalized by that point.

[Anonymous No.20782654]

>>20782630
>History proves this
Your own beliefs and tastes probably disprove this. Most of the conservative and "trad" people here derive their views from the 80s backlash against the 60s and 70s.

[Anonymous No.20782707]

>>20782654
I’m of the opinion that the Age of Enlightenment and basically everything that followed was a massive blunder

[Anonymous No.20782717]

>>20781197

[Anonymous No.20782738]

>>20781153
>An actual critique of Lasch would be to call out his reliance on ...
Horkheimer
Adorno
Fromm

Don't kid yourself. He even named them as his influences.

[Anonymous No.20782739]

>>20782707
Yeah and you got that idea from some shit you read on the internet, which is almost certainly influenced by the conservative turn that happened in the 80s

[Anonymous No.20782742]

>>20781197
bros I’m getting tired of waiting for better kings and a national church

[Anonymous No.20782751]

>>20782707
I'm of the opinion that you're a huge faggot.

[Anonymous No.20782761]

>>20782738
He critiques Adorno and Horkheimer relentlessly in The True and Only Heaven lol. The latter part of Lasch's career is in no small part him shitting on Marxism. Never seen him mention Fromm one way or the other off the top of my head. I wouldn't be surprised if his earlier work drew from him but Lasch was at his best in his late period. Get real.

[Anonymous No.20782765]

lasch is so fucking stupid i'm surprised he didn't win the pulitzer, this is the kind of pointless dribble they love.

[Anonymous No.20782773]

>>20782765
he's right tho

[Anonymous No.20782777]

>>20782765
Why do you think he was stupid?

[Anonymous No.20782782]

>>20782739
You seem like you don’t meet many non-Americans or talk to real people outside of your political group/the internet. My grandparents were from a country which, for a short period of time, was communist, and their parents held noble titles (and associated with the Catholic Church when it was still in vogue for leftists to slaughter Catholics, i.e. before the whole Vatican II thing). The principles of the Age of Enlightenment have been consistently used as a bludgeon to exterminate my ancestors. I developed my position out of a desire to survive, and a sincere belief that these principles are toxic to humanity. Touch grass.

[Anonymous No.20782790]

>>20782773
right about what? that there's a "youth culture" that might more accurately be called "student culture" now that people don't go straight from grammar school to a factory or the army? who gives a shit?

[Anonymous No.20782795]

>>20782790
what do you give a shit about then

[Anonymous No.20782804]

>>20782795
we're talking about lasch's supposedly deep cultural critiques not what i like?

[Anonymous No.20782814]

>>20782804
but i'm curious

[Anonymous No.20782834]

>>20782707
True but this "civilization", "administration", "organized agriculture, work, and industry", and "progress" thing in general was a massive blunder (for poor people, e.g. 90% of the world population). This age of enlightenment thing was just a particular event in the accelerating spiral of progress that is hurting your particular social caste. You break some you make some. Except that fewer and fewer people can make it. More and more people get to enjoy the delights of being "civilized" and "administrated" by fewer and fewer people.

[Anonymous No.20782856]

>>20782834
>was a massive blunder (for poor people, e.g. 90% of the world population)
more people have been lifted out of poverty in the last 200 years than ever in world history and the the prosperity keeps spreading. it's not even worth having a conversation with people who make up utterly fantastical scenarios that have nothing to do with reality.

[Anonymous No.20782862]

>>20781614
Consumerism is a shitty word. If people don't consume things they die. We are apex predators

[Anonymous No.20782869]

>>20782804
>>20782790
That quote is from Lasch's earliest book, published in 1965 long before Lasch made a radical departure from the mainstream academic perspective. You're not going to get the deep social commentary until a few books later, though even here Lasch's point isn't totally banal; you can see very clearly the foundation of what he would go on to develop for almost thirty years and how much more compelling it becomes.

[Anonymous No.20782881]

>>20782782
>You seem like you don’t meet many non-Americans
Some people cannot afford to travel

[Anonymous No.20782906]

>>20782856
This is such a retarded response because it applies to, for example, the previously "impoverished" cultures that lived more or less the same way they had for time immemorial in a way that suited them totally fine, who only became "lifted out of poverty" when their new national governments forced them out of their way of life and into what is essentially the bottom rung of sweat shop capitalism. Read The Gift by Marcel Mauss and tell me those people are worse off than the sweat shop chinks that make my clothes.

>>20782862
Consumerism is the fetishization of / addiction to consumption.

[Anonymous No.20782915]

>>20782906
Attaching a sexual impulse to capital goods is perversion that only a psychoanalyst could come up with. Sickening

[Anonymous No.20782924]

>>20782782
I am American, though some of my closest friends are European immigrants, though they are all expats, so perhaps there is some validity to what you are saying. But honestly, I also come from relatively recent peasant immigrants, you and your old order can die as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous No.20782926]

>>20782906
yes i'm well aware of gift economies and where do you think the tribal leader got all the shit to give as gifts? he made it himself? also, you said everything after the enlightment was bad for humanity, not everything after hunter gatherer stage. this is too stupid to continue. go to school, get an education, actually read some books, maybe you'll get a clue.

[Anonymous No.20782955]

>>20782856
Poverty is measured by productive output for the state and not by how well people live. In totally industrialized societies like America, it's easy to see cashlessness as abject poverty, but is a hunting or herding tribe who decide or are forced to get shitty jobs really trading up? In some sense they are, but it's much more nuanced than that

[Anonymous No.20782976]

>>20782955
have you ever read triste tropiques? one of those tribes literally eats bugs to survive the summer every year and i know how you guys feel about "eating the bugs". they would get bundle of sticks and wack the ground over and over until a bunch of bugs were mushed and then pick it up and eat it. i really don't know how you complain about the enlightenment when you're literally just stock on rouseau's noble savage. so shut off you computer and go eat bugs in the woods, be my guest.

[Anonymous No.20782977]

>>20782915
It's not in a sexual sort of way. Consumerism as that anon used it refers to the fostering of an environment in which the act of consumption becomes the important part, rather than the substance of what is to be consumed. That you buy is more important than what you buy. It's what sustains planned obsolescence, yearly model changes, proliferation and replacement of "styles" and fashions, the act of buying as something psychologically stimulating or addicting. Lasch, who is hardly the first to recognize this, applies it to children and their toys: if the kid has one toy he falls in love with it, never goes anywhere without it, seems to be endlessly amused by it. The more toys you buy him, the shorter they stimulate him and the more often you need to buy new toys. It's the act of receiving the toy that stimulates the child eventually, not the fun that you can potentially get from the toy.

>>20782926
>where do you think the tribal leader got all the shit to give as gifts? he made it himself?
It's described in the essay. I'll tell you one thing though, he definitely didn't get it from Amazon. There's no good comparison to what replaced it to "lift" those people from their "poverty".

>also, you said everything after the enlightment was bad for humanity,
That wasn't me.

[Anonymous No.20783023]

>>20782977
a gift economy is basically a debt economy where people give you things you can't refuse. prisons often have that too. when a new guy gets his bunk, someone will put cigarettes, ramen noodles, etc. from commissary. you don't know how it got there, so you can't return it, and eventually you get hungry or want a smoke, so you use some of it. then the guy who "gave" it to you presents himself and demands favors from you as you are now in his debt. awesome. anyone who thinks some kind of extremely oppressive gift or barter economy that pops up in prisons and remote islands is better than living in an industrialized democracy is just not good at thinking.

[Anonymous No.20783077]

>>20783023
Woah, good job on the mental gymnastics. But you're probably right, I'm sure all gift economies are as predatory as the ones that pop up in prisons populated by violent murderers, thieves, and rapists huh?

[Anonymous No.20783083]

>>20783077
>violent murderers, thieves, and rapists
in other words: capitalism

[Anonymous No.20783162]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years
I hope so, but our civilization, though hollow, will, unfortunately, linger. Ik, Ik, when will it die? Dudes with the guns will force us onwards and the only rebellion will be suicide.
How to escape debt? Only one way out.

[Anonymous No.20783197]

>>20783083
Huh?

[Anonymous No.20783285]

>>20780858
It’s not exactly individualism, is it? Conformity is not individualist.

[Anonymous No.20783298]

>>20783197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuV0PHDrXGY

[Anonymous No.20783303]

>>20782976
ok Klaus Schwab

>>20782977
the act of consumption exists because goods exist, its unavoidable

[Anonymous No.20783324]

>>20780813
>muh collapserino
you have not read The Minimal Self and it shows

[Anonymous No.20783328]

>>20783285
Individualism as opposed to some sort of communitarianism. What we have now is absolutely individualism, at least in the United States. Consider the core values that virtually the entire nation shares, and those that are enshrined in our founding documents. Our notion of freedom is uniformly an individual freedom; my ability to do this or not be restricted from doing that. Contrast that to something like Rousseau's freedom, which frankly seems alien to us. When we push for or against something we use lingo like freedom (in that way), rights (in pretty much the same way, something bestowed on all individuals), individual autonomy, etc. Even liberals; consider the abortion arguments.

[Anonymous No.20783369]

>>20783303
>the act of consumption exists because goods exist, its unavoidable
Nobody is saying that the act of consumption is a problem. The problem is addiction to the act of consumption or fetishization of consumption, which find their most obvious realizations in drug addicts and the deification of wealth.

>>20783324
What'd you like about it? What does it add that one wouldn't get from Culture of Narcissism, True and Only Heaven, and Revolt of the Elites? I have it sitting on my shelf and gave it a try once, but I wasn't able to get into it as easily as the others.

[Anonymous No.20783539]

>>20781197
Agree with you
What is the solution though?

[Anonymous No.20784184]

Bump for Lasch

[Anonymous No.20784234]

>>20783539
there is no solution, nobody want to go back to hunter gatherers, nobody wants to go back to monarchies (monarchs included) and everybody love a commercial society where normies go to work then go back home to pay for entertainment made by the same ruling class who gives them a job lol. Normies get to taste the life of the petit-bourgeois, the price to pay for them is to be wageslaves for life, whereas the bourgeois do very little work themselves.
The only way this is defeated is by a major external event deeply messing with the mercantile oligarchs.

So far the modicum of contenders are:
-China, which is commercial power, but not a military power (the US are not a military power, just like any commercial society (the whole humanist propaganda is that military conflicts will never be serious because of deep commercial ties between countries run by oligarchs))
-India which is not a commercial power, nor a military power. The US leftists like Bill Clinton in the 90s turned china as their new cheap commercial partner, it was all rose tinted worldview, but then by the time of the leftist Obama, they realized the Chinese spied on them (and by the way China made the oil price rise a lot which created the recession in 2008 (coupled with the leftist view that mortgages should be cheap so backed up by bureaucrats ie housing credits are now riskfree credits, ie bankers sell that like candy lol and get fat fees as the middleman)), so the big idea by the merchants is now to replace china with india, ie getting the indian bureaucrats to by the enormous US debt and in exchange US merchants put a few Poos in top CEO positions and recruit lots of poos working over internet from their shithole. Bonus points is that the US can leverage the deep historical conflict between India and China, in order to fuck with China a bit more. Of course it can back fire, and US oligarchs fuck up all the time, especially on international affairs. US diplomats are really mediocre.
-Islamic countries, which are not a commercial power, and not a military power

Islam may fuck the merchants a bit, because frankly muslims dont give much a of shit about liberalism, but they have a deep history of in-fighting, whichweakens then. Perhaps they can be united against a common enemy.
Then of course, if the Muslims win over the merchants, all that is left to do is to remove the Muslims (and that's not easy, both intellectually because islam is just another discount judaism, and goys love jews no matter what, even before atheism), and in practice once Muslims are settled, just like anybody who settles as the ruling class, it becomes a huge task by itself to remove it)

If the muslims will be the biggest contender, the only hope is that both the merchants and muslims kill each other in their fight lol

[Anonymous No.20784236]

>>20784234

The other good news is that no matter what, societies change, liberal societies too, humans cant fight this and it's not fucking humanists addicted to public posturing over efficiency who will prevent this. Whether liberals like or not liberalism will fade sooner or later.
The peak of humanism was really 1950-2000 thanks to mass consumerism. For any system, it takes several generations to be removed from what atheist call the ''unconscious mind' (ie basically the grandparents who lived an event must be dead so that grandkids dont know anything about the event)'', so by 2100 this revolutionanry narrative will fade, and by 2200 onward, liberalism will be part of history forever, like the middle ages are for the people now.

And this is not even taking into account the global warming that humanists keep talking about and who claim that it will deeply mess with their own mercantile society lol. The 21th century will be the most interesting even for non-humanists, and will turn out to be crucial for the merchants: it's make it or break it for them.

[Anonymous No.20784249]

>>20784234
Why the automatic assumption that any solution has to be on a huge scale and "save" everyone? Nobody ever thought like this in history and there's nothing to suggest it really helps anyone to do so. The evidence strongly suggests the opposite, that almost any changes some group tries to enact on large scales tends to make things worse. There can be a solution for you and your family. When everyone else dies you're the heirs.

[Anonymous No.20784263]

If Liberalism fails by year 21xx, it will mean that liberalism lasted 4 centuries, that's not even longer than Sparta lol, It's really pathetic on historical scales.

[Anonymous No.20784343]

>>20782862
Go back to your shapiro-corner or whatever

[Anonymous No.20784351]

>>20783023
What are you talking about, are you retarded?
Not only not all tribal societies had gift "economy", but moreover - it was much more ritualistic thing, not a paleolitic usery.
This is what PragerU does to a mf

[Anonymous No.20784444]

>>20784263
But what are you even referring to when you use the word?
You are a child of the age of propaganda. I don’t even know if you understand the terms you speak of.

[Anonymous No.20784448]

>>20784444
>wasted get
your ideology is wet dog shit. state-sponsored immigration is bad, climate change is a grift, and stop grooming kids.

[Anonymous No.20784471]

>>20784448
See? Now I know you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And it’s not even my ideology. Liberalism or any of that shit. You’re saturated in propaganda memes you can’t even communicate

[Anonymous No.20784486]

>>20784236
>>20784234
>>20781197
300 centuries ago. Take your meds.

[Anonymous No.20784491]

>>20784471
>words
not reading that. dilate.

[Anonymous No.20784561]

>>20784491
I’m a straight white male and I hate liberals

[Anonymous No.20784568]

>>20781614
Failure of old coping mechanisms

>>20782241
>You sound like a faggot teenager.
I am 30 years old you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.20784576]

You're all cowards.

The solution is to join the communist party.

[Anonymous No.20784577]

"Liberalism will surely fail" is the right wing equivalent of "Capitalism is doomed to collapse"

[Anonymous No.20784580]

>>20784576
Sorry, not a tranny

[Anonymous No.20784602]

>>20784577
Capitalism has collapsed. Monopolies control everything, small businesses are basically extinct.

[Anonymous No.20784603]

>>20784580
No, he didn’t say liberal. He said “Communist Party”
Go back to your containment board >>>/lgbt/

[Anonymous No.20784605]

>>20784602
That’s all a part of capitalism, you ninny, that’s why we’ve been trying to get rid of IT

[Anonymous No.20784630]

>>20784561
you’re some retarded communist arguing with someone who is clearly using the absolute lowest effort, highly recycled buzzwords designed to get you to keep responding. and that was all readily obvious within thirty seconds of reading your exchange

[Anonymous No.20784667]

>>20782241
>Lasch isn't a Marxist or communist. You sound like a faggot teenager.
Some people who should know better associate Lasch with Marxism because Zero Books shilled him hard and they're bellyaching "Marxians" (ehh). But he seemed more in the vein of Barbara Ehrenreich, but in a confused petit-bourgeois republican way, although self-consciously so. His whole fascination with 19th century prairie populism was a response to the crushing of their class by industrialization. I think it's funny that he defended gaming and elaborate dress and costumes though... LARPing as a good thing?

[Anonymous No.20784702]

>>20784576
Kys subhuman
>>>/leftypol/

[Anonymous No.20784707]

>>20784605
>That’s all a part of capitalism
No, that's crony capitalism

[Anonymous No.20784727]

>>20784605
what the fuck you gonna replace it with

[Anonymous No.20784764]

>>20784707
>Nooooo it wasn't true communism
Every. Single. Time.

[Anonymous No.20784926]

>>20784764
At least capitalism was proven to work and had a good run of +200 years before it degenerated into its current cronyist form, unlike communism which never and will never work.

[Anonymous No.20785228]

>>20780813
Are there any site to read or watch lectures about his book aside from here?

[Anonymous No.20785646]

just let republics decay and rot, people will make up new systems

[Anonymous No.20785653]

>>20784926
>Noooooo it isn't real capitalism

[Anonymous No.20785688]

>>20785653
>I'm too retarded to read: the reply

[Anonymous No.20786194]

>>20784707
Corny capitalism is capitalism. It rolls ins stages. Deal with it.

>>20784727
How about NOT capitalism? How about we willingly not exploit everyone to become robber baron winners of the game? It ruins people in the making of both rich and poor, and the whole planet is groaning right now. If climate change doesn’t kill us we crash for lack of resources and lose technology forever. Easter island writ large.

[Anonymous No.20786283]

>>20786194
good ideas but how are you going to implement them? what structure could we build to bind and nullify human greed?

[Anonymous No.20786314]

>>20784667
Where's he do that? In another book written before he matured?

[Anonymous No.20786477]

>>20786194
>If climate change doesn’t kill us
Congratulations for falling for the fearmongering propaganda perpetuated by those same capitalist behemoths and corporations you criticize, retard

[Anonymous No.20786519]

>>20784568
>>You sound like a faggot teenager.
>I am 30 years old you fucking faggot
Incredibly painful to watch you wilfully dunk on yourself like this

[Anonymous No.20786530]

>>20786519
Go fuck yourself retard

[Anonymous No.20786538]

>>20786283
The too-far-gone greedy will not be persuaded. Liquefaction is probably our only option for that crowd, but most will be bought off with a higher quality of life, once we can prove it’s worth to them.

>>20786477
I just used the word “if”. Use your brain before solving the captcha

[Anonymous No.20786554]

>>20786538
>I just used the word “if”. Use your brain before solving the captcha
The mere fact that you even acknowledge the possibility of a muh climate change disaster speaks volumes of the extent to which you've been brainwashed by fearmongering media propaganda. You are a lumpenprole in denial

[Anonymous No.20786564]

>>20784727
>>20786283
The only real answer here is Nationalsocialism. I know it's a hard pill to swallow and that lefties and trannies will seethe at this, but it's true

[Anonymous No.20786577]

>>20786554
>human beans cannot possibwy effect ther invirusment? You peepeepoopoo bwain hawhawhaw.
You trust only the science of the wealthy oil cartels, or did Jesus come to you in a dream to inform you of this?

[Anonymous No.20786584]

>>20786577
Okay, I admit that I almost took the bait
5/10

[Anonymous No.20786585]

>>20786564
That would be a doubling down of the exact same thing causing the problems, you cloning accident blob. You can’t even explain how this plan would benefit anyone but racist chuds, and even then it would be temporary or just fantastical nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20786593]

>>20786584
>no argument
Typical way your type concedes.

[Anonymous No.20786603]

>That would be a doubling down of the exact same thing causing the problems, you cloning accident blob. You can’t even explain how this plan would benefit anyone but racist chuds, and even then it would be temporary or just fantastical nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20786644]

>>20786477
>those same capitalist behemoths and corporations
Corporations have absolutely nothing to gain from pushing a climate change narrative, and stand to pose everything if regulations, degrowth and a less money-focused society were to develop because of it. I swear you people have not even two braincells to rub together

[Anonymous No.20786654]

Just wanna take a quick sec to say wsup to my fellow leftypol comrades toasting im this bread

[Anonymous No.20786695]

>>20786585
Carl Schmitt put forth a pretty convincing argument against liberalism towards some like Nazi Germany. The idea is getting there without the genocide or massacres or overindulgence in violence.

[Anonymous No.20786713]

>>20786644
If you seriously think that at this point Blackrock and Vanguard give a shit about profit you should seriously consider putting a bullet through your shallow subhuman skull. The climate change fearmongering that has been going on for well over half a century now, together with the insane and equally retarded implementation of green and zero-emission policies (see Germany) because of muh climate change is nothing but imposing tyrannical measures and tightening the global control grip around the masses. It is exactly those same big corporations that are teaming up with the governments around the world to promote and further the climate change agenda, but for some reason thick-skulled apes like you still don't and will never realize that neither their governments, nor their beloved corporations are working in their interests, quite the contrary in fact.

[Anonymous No.20786735]

>>20786654
omg /pol/bros we being fucking raided rn!?!??

[Anonymous No.20786758]

>>20780858
Individualism was never truly an option, it was just rhetoric to cut you off from every source of generational wealth and support you had and force you to start from scratch in a system explicitly designed to never let you leave

[Anonymous No.20786848]

>>20786603
>>20786593
I accept your concessions

[Anonymous No.20786955]

>>20786713
>is nothing but imposing tyrannical measures and tightening the global control grip around the masses
Ok but why would they do this. Like, for what reason. Its clearly not for money, which also directly relates to power, so what benefits do they get from this so-called 'tyrannical tightening grip on people'? They don't even give a shit about the population and are so rich they effectively live in their own insular world with no contact between them and the proles. Do they just have some sort of over simplistic 'evil madman' complex where they just want to 'tighten' the proles for fun? That just seems so reductive of an analysis. And theyd all have to be acting in lockstep with this simplified psychopath schtick. If you want me on board with your delusions, you have to actually convince me, other than just calling me a retard. Otherwise i cant help but go with the overwhelming evidence to the contrary of your opinions, sorry.

[Anonymous No.20787003]

>>20786644
>We focus on sustainability not because we’re environmentalists, but because we are capitalists and fiduciaries to our clients.
https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-relations/larry-fink-ceo-letter
Corporations love this shit and if they don't now, they will for Fed-Blackrock-Vanguard gibs.

[Anonymous No.20787027]

>>20787003
They love this shit in writing only, because the people are so wrought with brainrot that they thing real, systemic change happens when a CEO pens an open letter. Look at these companies more closely, theyre silently dropping the baggage of ESG and sustainable goals because investors ultimately are parking their money in places which guarantee returns. A fucking CEO pandering to what the retarded masses want to hear bears no relation to the actions of their investment management.

[Anonymous No.20787038]

>>20787027
>A fucking CEO pandering to what the retarded masses want to hear
He owns all the media, he tells people what they want to hear, he is not the one obeying the masses.

[Anonymous No.20787112]

>>20786955
>Ok but why would they do this. Like, for what reason.
All the wealth and capital of the world is currently concentrated in the hands of only a handful of people. When these people have literally everything they wish at the tip of their fingers and have indulged in every possible debauchery, they have become so morally degraded and lost any connection with reality that the next logical step for them is to assert as much dominance as possible over their subjects and begin to dictate every single facet of their personal lives. One striking example of this is transhumanism with which they basically want to achieve immortality and push as further as possible human nature's boundaries and "elevate" humanity to something above their mortal nature. However, in their eyes that would only apply to them, since their ultimate goal at this point is to literally control/monitor our thoughts, feelings, actions and habits so that we could fit within their dystopian technocratic one world government system. Elon Musk's Nauralink project is currently the best example for their efforts to push this, as well as the covid digital passes and China's credit score and ubiquitous surveillance system.

[Anonymous No.20787124]

>>20787027
>A fucking CEO pandering to what the retarded masses want to hear bears no relation to the actions of their investment management.
Go tell that to Netflix and all the other woke globohomo companies lol

[Anonymous No.20787139]

>>20787003>>20786644

The hole meme about sustainability is that it benefit megacorps way more than tinycorps.
And when a company doesnt behave enough, the few rating agencies can change the ESG rating to fuck with them.
Also the whole rating is bogus in the first place. Like all the CO2 equivalence is bogus, and even the calculation of direct CO2 is very artificial. Calculating the pollution of a company is a business by itself nowadays lol.

[Anonymous No.20787140]

>>20787112
Sounds to me like the world needs communism

[One !cwcv5N5qmU No.20787148]

This thread is too redpilled for its own good. For all we know, we might already be on the present, or most frighteningly, future watchlist of the CIA/FBI

Everything you do, do in consideration of future glowniggers' AI-aided retroactive abilities

Good luck and may Peace Be Upon You.

[One !cwcv5N5qmU No.20787252]

>>20787148
I didnt mean to kill this thread. Do go on

[Anonymous No.20787273]

>>20782906
most southeastasian rice farmers prefer sweatshop labour to working 12 hours a day bent over in a rice field

[Anonymous No.20787333]

>>20780858
how could something fail when it was never attempted

[Anonymous No.20787553]

>>20787333
Just because you haven’t trued it…

[Anonymous No.20787675]

>>20787333
Just because you haven’t tried it…

[Anonymous No.20787889]

>>20780904
Schoppy is right again.

[Anonymous No.20788205]

there is no hope

[Anonymous No.20788673]

>>20780813
Which book or work of Lasch's is that from?

[Anonymous No.20788714]

>>20780858
Because atomisation is a misunderstanding of human nature and our psychological development which proceeds through socialisation, recognition of others, and recognition of ourself through others. Man is a social animal that develops his humaness through and with others intersubjectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1flcGrb81M

[One !cwcv5N5qmU No.20788735]

>>20788205
there is. watch me.

[Anonymous No.20788781]

>>20788673
>>20781770
>The New Radicalism in America

[Anonymous No.20788900]

>>20788781
The spirit of the Guenon-larpers.

[Anonymous No.20790370]

>>20788673
It's not representative of proper Lasch

[Anonymous No.20790374]

>>20787273
One of the more retarded posts in this thread

[Anonymous No.20790431]

>>20784926
Since this is a Lasch thread (which the anons in the last fifty or so posts seemed to have forgotten), Lasch makes the counterargument that capitalism only survived on the coat tails of the traditions that it fed off of and destroyed. The stability of the earlier modern centuries can just as easily and much more convincingly be attributed to social and cultural factors rather than any sort of internal consistency in capitalism as an economic organization. Now that those are widely gone and the new era of internationalism/cosmopolitanism (e.g. the primacy of capital) is being ushered in by the elites, flaws are much easier to see.

Carl Schmitt makes the often underappreciated point that technological advancement is not the universal good that many take it to be. Man is Icarus.

[Anonymous No.20790482]

>>20790431
Schumpeter explains how capitalism instumentalises the entrepreneur function to managers, who form a new professional bureaucracy (PMC) that replaces the business-propetier class that gave social life to capitalism. Capitalism as a social phenomenon is expriopriated by capital itself.

[Anonymous No.20790499]

>>20780813
People have said this same shite about society collapsing throughout history - it rarely does, it just transitions into something different

[Anonymous No.20790501]

>>20782782
>muh noble titles

Glad the commies killed you guys

[Anonymous No.20790518]

The creation of a "youth culture" is caused in part by mandatory education and public schools. In the past a child would be raised primarily around his family, around adults. The society he would seek to gain acceptance in would be that of adults. In effect he would learn to become a responsible man. With schools, a child's primary company becomes other children. They'll spend most of their waking hours being socialized not by wiser adults, but by stupid children. They'll be pressured into behaving in ways that the other children will accept, worry about the things that the other children worry about, etc. Their development will be stymied and they will perhaps never actually become adults. The boy will always be a boy and never a man, because his entire cultural and social formation was on how to make himself acceptable in the company of children.

[Anonymous No.20790565]

>>20780858
Individualism works in a healthy society where you can trust everyone to make correct, or at least adequate, lifestyle decisions. Unfortunately we do not live in a healthy society.

[Anonymous No.20790606]

>>20790565
You can never trust people to do that, retard. There will always be deviants, people who act purely selfishly, who need to be coerced. The only way to make them act morally is to make it in their best interest to act morally.
>Buh what if we had a society where everyone agrees to act morally1!1!1!
If everyone agrees, why not codify it into law, and enforce this law with the threat of repercussions? This would prevent deviants from appearing in the future.

All of this is besides the point, though. An individualist society can never be moral because the essence of individualism is to be self-centered, to prioritize your personal freedom over the well-being of society.

[Anonymous No.20790652]

>>20786314
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1977/04/28/the-corruption-of-sports/

>Christopher Lasch wrote a chapter in The Culture of Narcissism on the state of American sports. He thought that spectator sports like football and baseball served a special social/cultural function that was being undermined by two things: the tendency to turn sporting events into spectacles attracting fans with little interest in the actual sport, and the use of sporting events to promote nationalist political ideology more than appreciation for the game. He faced critics of sport who were arguing that spectator sports needed to be downplayed in favor of sporting events that involved more people at more levels of ability. Lasch's reasons for defending a purer appreciation of professional sports is interesting--such events are an activity that should fall squarely in the realm of play, in a world in which too much of our time is managed and channeled into "safe and productive" activities, even when we are not at work. Lasch's defense of the zone of play is an interesting takeaway from his chapter on sports in The Culture of Narcissism.

[Anonymous No.20791836]

>>20790652
Oh yeah. But that doesn't say anything about defending elaborate dress. And it's sort of misleading to characterize his view of sports as something that shouldn't be used to push nationalism; the thrust is definitely more about a respect for the game and "play," but he also saw it as a way to help foster relationships in a community if memory serves.

[Anonymous No.20791861]

>>20790482
Exactly, that meshes with Lasch and I believe but am not positive that he mentions schumpeter somewhere. Consequences of the instrumentalization of the firm towards its single purpose include the loss of some sort of localism / noblesse oblige and internationalism. Any social "activism" is sure to have some sort of advertising or signaling motive.

[Anonymous No.20792011]

>>20790431
>Lasch makes the counterargument that capitalism only survived on the coat tails of the traditions that it fed off of and destroyed. The stability of the earlier modern centuries can just as easily and much more convincingly be attributed to social and cultural factors rather than any sort of internal consistency in capitalism as an economic organization.
Capitalism is just a tool whose success depends on the way it is used and implemented by whomever yields it and the innate qualities they posses (in this case, a community/nation). The same thing can be said about literally every other sociological, political and/or economic system and order. As in the case with technology, it can either cause extremely disastrous consequences or greatly benefit mankind and our day-to-day lives. Every such system needs to be built upon and have for its basis strong and rigid moral values and a sense of shared and communal responsibility, otherwise it could rapidly and heedlessly degenerate and begin to pose a great threat to the common good without most people realizing it until it's too late. That's why the Nationalsocialists were smart enough to make sure that capital serves first and foremost the domestic interests of the community, while the personal ones were made only secondary.

[Anonymous No.20792125]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years
Why would youth social conformity cause societal collapse? Like, it'll be worse, but a prison of their own making in pretty much every way.
I'm also really tired of zoomers coming on here and talking about how uniquely bad tiktok is. You're not special, every kid for the last twenty years has had some fucked up internet community dominating their ingroups. Once it was even this website.

[Anonymous No.20792246]

>>20792011
> Every such system needs to be built upon and have for its basis strong and rigid moral values and a sense of shared and communal responsibility, otherwise it could rapidly and heedlessly degenerate and begin to pose a great threat to the common good without most people realizing it until it's too late.
I agree with the sentiment, but obviously it is easier said than done. I don't think it's correct to call capitalism only a tool. The economic organization of a collection of people will have profound consequences beyond the merely economic. I think there's an easy case to be made regarding the capacity and tendency of capitalism to dissolve uneconomical (e.g. virtually all other) institutions, and to reforge the survivors in its image. It may appear to some as a sort of chicken-and-egg problem but in reality it is very easy to see how the evolution of capitalism led to the erosion of moral values and sense of community (much less responsibility).

I'm not even arguing for its total replacement, but something has to be done about it and not in a roundabout way.

[Anonymous No.20792287]

I think that guy is pseud

[Anonymous No.20792307]

>>20792287
I think you're a pseud

[Anonymous No.20792333]

>>20792307
If he were actually criticizing modern world, his works would get demonized. Seems like another Jordan Peterstein

[Anonymous No.20792429]

>>20792246
>I think there's an easy case to be made regarding the capacity and tendency of capitalism to dissolve uneconomical (e.g. virtually all other) institutions, and to reforge the survivors in its image. It may appear to some as a sort of chicken-and-egg problem but in reality it is very easy to see how the evolution of capitalism led to the erosion of moral values and sense of community (much less responsibility).
In my opinion it is important to first define what "capitalism" really means and find where to draw the line between its more abstract/theoretical emanations and its merely practical ones. Is it a simple contractual agreement between two parties, i.e. buying and selling a product/service, or, taken to a more complex level, the sum total of all intricate and multi-layered private economic processes that take place within a community/country? Where exactly does "capitalism" reach its most basic form and where does it manifest to its fullest extent? Some people trace capitalism back to Adam Smith with his formulations, others - way earlier. Were the transactional and economic activities in Ancient Rome capitalistic? If not, what were they? The term "capitalism" is very vague to define to begin with.

[Anonymous No.20792498]

>>20792333
He suffered a far more desirable fate to the people that would demonize him. He's totally forgotten.

[Anonymous No.20792512]

>>20792246
>it is very easy to see how the evolution of capitalism led to the erosion of moral values and sense of community (much less responsibility).
this doesn't even make sense considering so many people in capitalism are concerned with the environment and protecting it, and there is so much push for inclusion in every organization. you just seem to be mad that the moral values, sense of community, and responsibility aren't the stuff you like.
>capitalism needs to be more responsible!
>ok we're going to transition to green energy. >no not like that i have to have my f150!

[Anonymous No.20792522]

>>20792246
>it is very easy to see how the evolution of capitalism led to the erosion of moral values and sense of community (much less responsibility).
this doesn't even make sense considering so many people in capitalism are concerned with the environment and protecting it, and there is so much push for inclusion in every organization. you just seem to be mad that the moral values, sense of community, and responsibility aren't the stuff you like.
>capitalism needs to be more responsible!
>ok we're going to transition to green energy.
>no not like that i have to have my f150!

[Anonymous No.20792566]

>>20780813
Nope, this is absolutely correct. He neglected to mention how the ruling class currently depends upon these autonomous youth collectives to secure their rule by promising shit that no adult would ever believe.

[Anonymous No.20792580]

>>20792566
affordable college? like what the boomers got? yeah no adult would ever believe that.

[Anonymous No.20792585]

>>20792580
Promising young people that they won't have to pay their 100k college debts when the student loan debt bubble is 1 trillion in size and the fine print prevents them from discharging it in bankruptcy is, indeed, a fantasy only mental children would believe.

[Anonymous No.20792589]

>>20792580
I see we've backed off on calling it free in daily conversation, but not yet acknowledged the difference in population percentage it now needs to serve

[Anonymous No.20792605]

>>20792585
they absolutely should not pay off the existing debts because of the clear moral hazard but since i can tell you are one of those guys that whines about how no one can afford a house or two have kids, maybe if everyone didn't start life with a five figure debt that would be a lot easier? i went to college, got the (low) five figure debt and paid it off. it's not the end of the world, but if you want people to have good jobs and support families, the cost of education has to be reformed.

[Anonymous No.20792624]

>>20792605
The only way to reduce the cost of education is to cut off federal funding. Which no leftist wants to do. You are asking to have your cake and eat it too.

When an institution gets federal funding, it will balloon in size, which will increase costs of running it. Look at the modern college campus and how much dumb bullshit it offers and compare it to the colleges of yesteryear, which were literally just rooms with professors. Remove the administrative bloat, the gyms, the sports stadiums, the rec rooms, and all the unnecessary bullshit first, and bring colleges back to their roots-- rooms where people fucking studied to learn.

[Anonymous No.20792640]

>>20792624
Maybe you could put strict limits on what federals funds can actually be used for.

[Anonymous No.20792661]

>>20792624
state universities used to get a lot of funding from their own states, but then clever state governments realized if they cut the state funding, the federal government will come in and fill it. well, it doesn't fully fill it, and the federal money comes with strings attached and now you have to comply with an huge byzantine mess of laws that require full time administrators with pseudo-legal masters degrees to navigate. i would also add that some schools were just never affordable, but in 1990 if you got into nyu and your parents weren't rich you just turned it down and went to whatever state school gave you a full ride instead. now people feel both entitled and obligated to go to the most expensive school that accepts them. there aren't enough young people left due to low birth rates in america and china, and there are only so many bourgeois indians to go around, so something will have to change in college budgets.

[Anonymous No.20792666]

>>20792640
oh believe me federal grants already come with all kinds of strict rules, that's why college have so many of these administrators everyone bitches about, to deal with all those rules.

[Anonymous No.20792704]

>>20792429
We can get bogged down in the weeds of attempting to define something that is extremely hard to precisely and satisfactorily define if you please, but I'm speaking of the flavor that evolved historically in the modern period concurrent with all the other ideological and traditional baggage of the Western culture and its components, competing ideas or not.

In my view, "strong and rigid moral values and a sense of shared and communal responsibility" can only be upheld and propagated strictly on the local level; in families, in neighborhoods and small towns, and in religious institutions. These are not things that can be taught or instilled top-down from a disinterested impersonal authority. These social institutions have declined tremendously in the last two hundred years. Why?

Look at the consequences of our economic organization. Opportunity has become identified with social mobility. In the family, the man now works not at the home, or down the street, or on Main Street, he works at the other end of town or in another city entirely. He might uproot his immediate family from a place where the extended family also lives in order to chase a higher salary. His work is more atomic and less holistic than it was at virtually any point prior to the managerial revolution (or even the early stages of industrialization). The woman often also leaves the house and works. The child is left to be socialized by the disinterested impersonal authority of the public school system (or, after that fails, by his peers as is mentioned in the OP). In the neighborhoods and small towns, the best jobs are elsewhere and your best move if you want to ensure opportunity (social mobility) is to send your kid away to a good university. Main street first gave way to shopping malls and then to Amazon, and now the preferred residence of the middle class is in a suburb like Irvine, CA which is a collection of individuals that share virtually zero common values, traditions, or even preferences (except as far as regards keeping the fallout of the economic/social organization, the homeless, as far away as possible). Organized religion is atomized and dispersed too thinly and among too many competitors to survive except under the most "total" codes (Catholicism, JW, etc).

>>20792522
The humanitarianism of capitalism is watery and uncompelling. It does not love people or communities, it "loves" humanity as a whole, and that love is spread too thin to be meaningful. So Getty opens world famous museums in California, Hearst leaves a castle for people to enjoy, New York is a continuing testament to the communitarianism even of the ultra-wealthy, dying elite leave art collections to public institutions, and on the other hand Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or Google or Facebook serve humanity by making as much money as possible while hiring a couple niggers so people won't boycott them. It's a signalling game.

[Anonymous No.20792726]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
There's still a handful of fathers that can play their role and instill their values in their children. When those grow up they will hold leadership positions. You don't need a lot, just a bunch and a strong police/media to have the population under control

[Anonymous No.20792756]

>>20780813
>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?
It will all work out. The Amish population is growing exponentially and will eventually replace our failed degenerate society.

[Anonymous No.20792777]

>>20792704
>Look at the consequences of our economic organization. Opportunity has become identified with social mobility. In the family, the man now works not at the home, or down the street, or on Main Street, he works at the other end of town or in another city entirely. He might uproot his immediate family from a place where the extended family also lives in order to chase a higher salary. His work is more atomic and less holistic than it was at virtually any point prior to the managerial revolution (or even the early stages of industrialization). The woman often also leaves the house and works. The child is left to be socialized by the disinterested impersonal authority of the public school system (or, after that fails, by his peers as is mentioned in the OP). In the neighborhoods and small towns, the best jobs are elsewhere and your best move if you want to ensure opportunity (social mobility) is to send your kid away to a good university. Main street first gave way to shopping malls and then to Amazon, and now the preferred residence of the middle class is in a suburb like Irvine, CA which is a collection of individuals that share virtually zero common values, traditions, or even preferences (except as far as regards keeping the fallout of the economic/social organization, the homeless, as far away as possible). Organized religion is atomized and dispersed too thinly and among too many competitors to survive except under the most "total" codes (Catholicism, JW, etc).
Like I already mentioned above, almost all, if not all, of those problems you listed were already solved by the Nationalsocialists in the 30s. They were well aware that capitalism is a double-edged sword so they attempted to and succeeded in alleviating its harmful mid- and long-term effects by incorporating certain socialistic elements and state policies as well. Of course, that would only work if you have a centralised and more or less authoritarian government that always prioritizes the nation's interests, but unfortunately we all know that there is a certain group of (((people))) who would do anything in their power to prevent the formation of such a state (see Libya).

[Anonymous No.20792818]

>>20792704
>on the other hand Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or Google or Facebook serve humanity by making as much money as possible while hiring a couple niggers so people won't boycott them. It's a signalling game.
ever heard of the gates foundation dumb ass? how about "the giving pledge"? you know much money mackenzie bezos gave away last year? people on /lit/ are seriously too stupid to engage with. i'm done man.

[Anonymous No.20792826]

>>20792756
yeah i'm sure a bunch of inbred farmers are going to have the engineering skill needed to maintain our commercial, technical, and military dominance.

[Anonymous No.20792832]

>>20792818
vague, watery humanitarianism. See above.

[Anonymous No.20792833]

>>20792826
They won't, and that's why it will work out. All of those things are bad.

[Anonymous No.20792849]

>>20792777
I'm not convinced that a government that didn't even last 15 years and was embroiled in a war for half its life managed to conclusively solve those problems, even if they were aware of the problem. It also seemed very top-down in many ways.

[Anonymous No.20792853]

>>20792826
Amish aside, the midwestern farmers I've met are a great deal smarter/more technically adept than the engineers I work with on the coast-- for the same reason your average circuit board repairman has a better grasp on electronic engineering than your average eecs graduate. Practice teaches you more than classroom theory.

This is also, incidentally, why China is kicking our ass in patents. Even if half of the patents being filed are garbage, they are coming up with actual innovations similar to Japan circa 1970. This is because they are close to the manufacturing process, unlike our engineers who sit in stupid open plan offices filming tiktoks all day.

[Anonymous No.20792858]

>>20792853
yeah because we all know how awesome chinese designed processors are. you are a fucking clown.

[Anonymous No.20792865]

>>20792858
Your great great grandchildren, should you have any, will grow up on a farm and not know what a computer is. Praise God.

[Anonymous No.20792872]

>>20792865
>will grow up on a farm and not know what a computer is.
Perhaps they will know of it is the Devil Box which was banished from upstanding society.

[Anonymous No.20792879]

>>20792858
You are either a boomer with outdated knowledge or a tech illiterate who doesn't know the current landscape. Huawei is one of the leaders in optical technology. Shenzhen is to current year patents what Tokyo was to electronics in the 80s.

[Anonymous No.20792928]

>>20792849
>I'm not convinced that a government that didn't even last 15 years and was embroiled in a war for half its life managed to conclusively solve those problems,
Except it did. For a very short period of time Hitler managed to revive the devastated by the Versailles treaty reparations and the Great Depression German economy and turn the country into literally the most prosperous nation on earth with the best quality of life, even to the point that Roosevelt expressed his admirations about this achievement. And all of this was done before WWII started, so your point is kinda moot here. Also, the fact that it didn't last for more than 15 years is due to entirely different (geopolitical) reasons, not domestic economic ones. I suggest that you to read pic related if you want to learn about the economic and social policies of the Third Reich in detail and how they became what they were prior to the war.

[Anonymous No.20793069]

>>20792928
It's not a long enough period of time to measure the stability of something. Nobody places the United States' great issues within 75 years of its founding.

[Anonymous No.20793118]

>>20793069
>It's not a long enough period of time to measure the stability of something.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again, though.

[Anonymous No.20793320]

>>20780813
I remember when you could travel and there weren't any google maps, google reviews, tripadvisor, or instagram. I remember when even only a small fraction of people bothered to take pictures of things or themselves and when they did, more than half used actual cameras not phones. You actually interacted with people and got advice and made friends and sometimes met romantic interests. If you travel now, the whole thing is hyper-focused on social media, or the image of travel. Heck, you don't even need to travel, just head for a night out. People seem mostly angry or absent, sticking to their phones and small clique. To me it feels like most people are actually playing out what they think a night out should look like, rather than actually having any mental presence in that moment. It's pretty sad.

[Anonymous No.20793338]

>>20780813
Don't understand all this pointless ideology. The problem in the West is simple. It's impossible to earn enough to buy property and have financial safety. Most of the young population are slaves with no stability. Hence, no kids. No family, no community. No point. Only inheriting stuff from boomers can save you.

[Anonymous No.20793436]

>>20787333
This. It never failed, we failed it.

[Anonymous No.20793789]

>>20793118
Maybe without the unhinged loon they had in charge

[Anonymous No.20793816]

>>20780858
For the same reason /lit/ failed/

[Anonymous No.20793824]

>>20780858
Because individualism is a half-truth the same way equality is a half-truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KouOk4PJESw

[Anonymous No.20793923]

>>20780813

I love larping as a noble with my taste in music, literature, good looks, love of leisure, and romantic sensibilities. But in reality I'm an depressed lumpen retardo who will probably be dead in a few years. The middle class did this to me!

[Anonymous No.20793933]

>>20793923
They did. Your social integration was aborted and you retreated into fantasy escapism.

[Anonymous No.20793965]

>>20793923
Same, except I did it to myself.

[Anonymous No.20793975]

>>20793933

Most people who are not "socially integrated" play xbox and watch porn all day. And I was joking about the "romantic sensibility" I am fully aware that the real world is a ruthless niggerzone. That is precisely why black culture is so appealing to normies, it's more reflective of the unspoken reality of everyday life

[Anonymous No.20794038]

>Can anyone give me a credible argument why society will NOT effectively collapse in 20-30 years when zoomers step into the shoes of their precedessors?

Implying that boomers and millennials did not already fuck it all up? Zoomers are just gonna be the rotten cherry on the shit sundae compared to the one two knockout those two gens delivered.

[Anonymous No.20794095]

>>20780813
>The mass society, lacking the cohesive influences that make a society into a community, tends to break up into smaller communities, autonomous, self-contained, and having no viable connection with the whole. The existence of a “youth problem,” a phenomenon mistakenly regarded as a problem of inadequate law enforcement or of a decline of public morality or of society’s failure to provide adequate incentives for young people, in reality signifies the emergence of an autonomous youth-culture.
He has a few good points here but also some retarded ones. The divide between the young and old has always been a thing. He's right that that divide is more pronounced in modernity as the emergence of technology like cars allowed young people to form their own more distinct culture. A more distinct youth culture emerged in the 1920s as cars allowed young people in the U.S to socialize separate from their parents. But you can find authors even as far back as ancient greece complaining about young people. And I think it would be fair to say the divide has more or less always been there though in different forms.
Also this "cohesive community" connected to the "whole", whatever that means, has never existed.
I also dont really understand his complaint that youth culture conforms to that of its peers. I mean of course, that's the definition of youth culture. Otherwise it wouldn't be a culture.
How else would a movement maintain itself if not by some degree of conformity to a set of norms? It's unclear what he even takes issue with here. He sounds like a bitter oldfag surprised that the world doesn't conform to his idealistic visions of reality.

[Anonymous No.20794101]

>>20793338
Based, and I agree. Personally I just want someday own a home and be finanically comfy. Idgaf about all this retarded schizo shit.

[Anonymous No.20794114]

>>20794038
Gen-x will be the stepping stone gen-α uses to reach a flowering of virtue.

[Anonymous No.20794174]

>>20794114

Virtue isn't a "flower" it's a cock and a spear. It is Latin for "manliness". If Cicero were assfucked by niggers then his virtue would be stolen from him and he could never take it back

[Anonymous No.20794199]

>>20780813
Lurking /pol/tard here, does this board think there will be a collapse soon? Weird I would just take things as schizoposfs but the fact other boards are lockstep with slightly less poltard views is telling once boomers retire enmass we are fucked, dudes have no reason to work jobs that actually matter anymore

[Anonymous No.20794218]

>>20781068
He’s a zizek tier commie I.e. old school leftie who rejects all identity politics and social justice. Def not Frankfurt school tier

[Anonymous No.20794228]

>>20781002
Once boomers retire there will be no one to replace blue collar jobs unless automation technology advances in the half decade (it won’t tech is in a bubble), women decide to work outside of their gossip filled air conditioned goybox (they won’t), and low skill immigrants take on the mantle (possible but they work mostly service jobs and too unreliable)

[Anonymous No.20794919]

>>20793789
Are you a jew or a leftist/liberal?

[Anonymous No.20795045]

>>20792605
Big part of the issue are people going to OOS/private schools and majoring in bullshit

[Anonymous No.20795050]

>>20782761
>He critiques Adorno and Horkheimer relentlessly in The True and Only Heaven
And he praises them in the introduction of the same book.

[Anonymous No.20795070]

>>20795050
Life is full of subtleties

[Anonymous No.20796345]

>>20795050
I remember him outlining his intellectual journey where he names them and states they were very compelling to him at the time. That's widely what the introduction is. Hardly a unreserved celebration of them. Is that what you're referring to?

[Anonymous No.20796468]

>>20795045
that's what you get when 9 billion people are created in 100 years

[Anonymous No.20796473]

>>20794199
the only thing which matter now is computer chips and getting everything digitized

[Anonymous No.20797545]

Bump for lasch
Literally nobody here is talking about him
Relate your /pol/ shit to Lasch

[Anonymous No.20797592]

>>20780838
I think society already collapsed, to be honest.

[Anonymous No.20798705]

>>20794095
I think you should read him before you try to critique him