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/lit/ - Literature

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20770873 No.20770873 [Reply] [Original]

It's been a good ride.

Eumæus: 22647 words; 4 days
Ithaca: 22403 words; 6 days
Penelope: 24059 words; 6 days

>> No.20770946
File: 45 KB, 276x1741, ulysses schedule.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.20771063

Link to the previous thread, for those interested.

>> No.20771081

Thanks for organizing this OP! I know it hasn’t been as popular as we might’ve hoped, but I think the discussions we have had have been excellent (I don’t think any of us would’ve bothered with Gogarty we’re it not for that one anon). Thanks to you, I’ve re-read Dubliners and read Portrait for the first time. I can really appreciate how brilliant Joyce is now.

>> No.20771344

>He means Stephen is the mind and Bloom is the body, sort of like how the Karamazov Brothers are the animal, the intellectual, and the spiritual sides of man.

Yes, very observant. The sacred and the propane.

It was just a joke though,
>the scientific. The artistic.
>the scientific. The autistic.

>> No.20771924


>> No.20772126

>the autistic
I read your post as artistic

>> No.20772129
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After the Ulysses is over, anyone want to read Finnegans Wake?

>> No.20772281

i would love to, but i plan to read fins wake only after re-reading ulysses. good luck, though!

>> No.20772599

i was wondering why the style in eumaeus seemed a little cheap and plasticky, considering that it's joyce, and when i was skimming through the Ulysses Guide website (www.ulyssesguide.com/16-eumaeus), i found this:

>The style of the “Eumaeus” episode, identified by Joyce in his schemas as “narrative (old),” has been met with divergent critical opinions. Richard Ellmann claims that the episode “struggles clumsily for the right expression” (Ellmann 151), while Stanley Sultan describes it as “the attempt of a poorly-educated man to impress by discoursing with sophisticated eloquence” (Sultan 364). David Hayman calls the episode “a tired, threadbare, flatulent narrative larded with commonplaces” whereby “the arranger conveys with surprising accuracy the drink and fatigue-dulled sentiments of both protagonists” (Hayman 102-03). Maybe.

>In my opinion, the most useful understanding of the style of this episode relies on the Uncle Charles Principle. In short, “the Uncle Charles Principle entails writing about someone much as that someone would choose to be written about” (Kenner 21). Applying this concept to the current episode, “Eumaeus” is written in the style that Bloom would have employed if he himself had written the episode; indeed, Bloom later announces his intention to compose exactly this piece of literature: “suppose he were to pen something out of the common groove (as he fully intended doing) at the rate of one guinea per column. My experiences, let us say, in a Cabman’s Shelter” (16.1229-31). So, rather than condemning “Eumaeus” as stilted, over-ornamented prose with garbled syntax and imprecise diction, we might instead consider the episode’s use of Bloom’s own literary style (flawed as it may be) as the ultimate celebration of Bloom himself (flawed as he may be). By ceding such control to Mr. Bloom, Joyce offers “the book’s most profound tribute to its hero” (Kenner 38). With this gesture in mind, the episode’s flabby sentences and cringe-worthy cliches become endearing a la Bloom himself. The episode’s inferior style, though, is also a demonstration of Joyce’s extreme facility with language. Just as it takes a very good piano player to play a song really poorly (you have to know the exact wrong notes to play to make it sound truly awful), it takes an immensely talented writer to intentionally write this badly. Bearing this in mind, the reader can appreciate the humour embedded in the style of this particular episode.

what are your thoughts, anons?

>> No.20772821

Kek when I read this I thought of the beat writers and really liked it, still like it. It also reminded me of Bukowskis poetry.


>> No.20773039

My thoughts are I hadn't noticed it at all but I probably would have on my second read through. It felt like I was always reading Bloom's thoughts or perspective. But that is a seriously interesting analysis. The cliches I thought were really funny. By the by, cooked his proverbial goose, so to speak, etc. They all felt like funny asides used by someone rambling and searching for the correct, perfect word or phrase, and instead falling to a familiar cliche so they can keep talking.

>> No.20773377

can the anon who was posting panels from the ulysses manga classics post some more? shit fascinates me for whatever reason

had a prof who described the uncertainty and over-explanation of the episode as the book trying to re-establish a sense of reality after circe. Its clunkiness is the narration shaking itself off of all the hallucinations...was one of his favorite episodes, weirdly enough.

I think the awkwardness of the narration is funny to a point, though the interactions between bloom and stephen break my heart a little. Kind of anti-climactic...it's not exactly the father-son sort of connection that the rest of the book primes us for. It gets a little better in ithaca.

> Stephen, patently crosstempered, repeated and shoved aside his mug of coffee or whatever you like to call it none too politely, adding:
>—We can’t change the country. Let us change the subject.

>> No.20773876

Finishing Eumæus tomorrow at work, lads. See if I can't also work my way into Ithaca next. I know that's the Sinbad the Sailor chapter.

>> No.20774248

I’d love to as well but I just don’t have the time right now, sorry anon. I want to give it the full attention it deserves.
I didn’t think the chapter was bad myself, but this elevates it to a whole new friggin level. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was what Joyce was doing at all, thanks for sharing anon.

>> No.20774286

Same time next year? I missed out on the start by a few months but reading the recent threads was nice anons. What joyce is essential pre-reading for ulysses?
t. 2014-2016 litanon recently returned

>> No.20774859

Since Ulysses reading is ending soon. Are we starting another book or something?

>> No.20774954

we finished dubliners and a portrait of the artist as a young man in may, before we began ulysses

>> No.20775227

6 days for Ithaca and 70 pages equals 12 pages per day. Should be easy enough considering there are a lot of line breaks.
I think it's up to anon. The reading threads, if they stay active, are very high quality. Did anyone do the Don Quixote read? How did that go?
To get book suggestions I thought it might be wise to simply make threads asking for general interest before saying "Hey we're reading XYZ".

>> No.20775309

are you guys doing Finnegan's Wake or nah

>> No.20775408

Started reading this a few weeks ago after a failed attempt last year, on Aeolus rn and I have to ask - how the fuck is an unread American youth supposed to read this? I haven’t read any of the works that get referenced except for the Odyssey, so I get some stuff is going to fly over my head, but just the verbage is absolutely insane. I have no idea what’s happening or what’s being talked about half the time. I understand what’s happening like 60% of the time but there are times where they are so many characters having such weird conversations that I can’t tell who’s talking to who even, least of all what the fuck they’re talking about, is this normal??
Rant post over sorry

>> No.20775439

i'll be honest, it's been a confusing read for me, but i take it easy and use ulyssesguide.com when things get too hard for me.

>> No.20775470

That’s what I’ve been trying to do as well, I get the vibe that it’s just a tough read that confuses a lot of people, I just wanna know that I’m not so completely lost that I’m missing all the points. This Aeolus episode has been particularly hard with so many moving parts, focusing on what characters are talking and where they are in relation to each other is so challenging that I’m worried I’m missing the point of the chapter. I guess that’s why they say this is such a good book for rereads though

>> No.20775738

i loved aeolus. maybe try to think of it as a silent film! that might help.

>> No.20775821

>However reverting to friend Sinbad . . .
i wonder if the sinbad the sailor passage at the end of ithaca has something to do with this. maybe each of the "inbads" represents a certain character in ulysses?

>> No.20775903

read more
move to Europe
grow up

>> No.20775909
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>> No.20775973

i have this image saved. it's one of my favourite 4chan posts ever

>> No.20776339

can't wait for ithaca. i've read excerpts of both ithaca and penelope before, and i loved both of them! i feel like ithaca might be my favourite chapter just for its narrative technique (catechism)

>> No.20777075


>> No.20777719

gonna start ithaca in half an hour!

>> No.20777725

I doubt it, in my opinion it's just a portrait of one's thoughts immediately before falling asleep

>> No.20778876

I didn’t get a lot of it my first time through. You could consider an audiobook which makes it easier, or you could look at a guide for some help. I know it might not give you as authentic an experience but it’s probably not a bad idea if you don’t have a ton of time to spend figuring out each chapter on your own.
Also, you can check on here.
Interesting, didn’t even know there was a name for this. Thanks anon, hope you enjoy it. Agree with you too, Penelope is beautiful. It was actually seeing the final line of the book that got me to read Ulysses in the first place.
That’s a good call, but it may be more likely just his kind wandering at the end of the day like that other anon said.

>> No.20778914

I’m going to read it in a few months, mid November prob. Def at the start of December.

>> No.20779522

Oh, man. I hated Eumaeus. I get it that "the style is the message" or whatever, but I've really struggled to keep going. Oxen was pure bliss in comparison. Joyce is a stingy fucker. He keeps us hungry for that kinovision of his.

So far, I don't really get it with Bloom. Why is he Ulysses, "the most complete character in Western literature" as Joyce called him somewhere. To me he seems rather generic or abstract, but maybe that's the point. The fact that he's not technically, nor considers himself to be a Jew was a big epiphany for me, because it makes him even more dissociated. He seems to be the embodiment of modernity. His materialist philosophy espoused in Eumaeus strengthens this point. So does his rationalism, not to mention his perversions. Even his often mentioned care is a care for the essentials: death, birth, great talent, in contrast with what others care for: religion, nation, history, status, etc.

>I have no idea what’s happening or what’s being talked about half the time.

Completely normal phenomenon. I found Aeolus the most confusing chapter so far.

>> No.20779678

>Of others elsewhere in other times who, kneeling on one knee or on two, had kindled fires for him,
this made me a bit emotional.

>> No.20779708

thanks anon, until next year

>> No.20779725

Sorry I didn't join you all on this journey - Ulysses is one of my favourite books but missed the boat to start the reading with everyone. However would love a Finnegans Wake read at some point - I've read it just once and I think I definitely need to tackle it again

>> No.20780159

The fact that Bloom didn't finish writing music for a local play because he couldn't find the right jokes from a joke book is really laughable. I ought to make a REG for Ulysses with a picture for nearly every chapter.

>> No.20780420

what's an REG?

i was wondering whether we could make this a yearly thing. an annual ulysses read along starting every bloomsday.

>> No.20780794

read, expected, got

>> No.20780938

oh, sweet! i'll be looking forward to your REG

>> No.20782002


>> No.20782863

Anons final thoughts on eum?

I liked the chapter, I thought it was, uhm what do you call it? Entertaining, different from the other chapters and what not.
As some anon pointed out >>20772599. I shared a link >>20772821.

>> No.20783473

very nice image of the duo from the driver's perspective at the end.

>> No.20783848

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if I want to do actually a few pictures per chapter or just notable scenes. I'm only on Calypso and it's quite big.

>> No.20784559

Bumping coz Ithaca is my favourite chapter and I’d like to hear anons thoughts. It’s a thing of crystalline beauty after the madness of the preceding chapters.

>> No.20784629

It's the Wittgenstein of book chapters. Beautiful piece of work, maths by words.

>> No.20785130

I love that Ithaca has all the payoff of one reading Portrait and Dubliners beforehand. I had no idea Bloom and Stephen both knew Dante.

>> No.20785190

dante's been mentioned in bloom's internal monologue before this too, no?

>> No.20785209

I vaguely remember this. Something about the brushes showed up earlier. I must not have made the connection.

>> No.20786203

Don't crawl into bed with Molly yet bros we have 10 days of reading left!

>> No.20786249

Agree with you about it feeling like a break from the madness. Really shows how good an influence Bloom is on Stephen compared to the rest of his friends. It’s a bit of a shame he didn’t decide to stay.

>> No.20787047

No more sleepy Jesuits! Get to reading!

>> No.20787158

The section where Bloom tells Stephen about how he tried to entertain Molly and show her his intellectual pursuits only for her to take a fake interest or forget them completely is kind of heartbreaking. I know what's it's like to be with a girl who isn't on the same plane as you intellectually. It's very lonely. They can't get excitement from what you like, but you can bend yourself down to enjoy what they like.

>> No.20787844

>They can't get excitement from what you like, but you can bend yourself down to enjoy what they like.
I don’t know if it’s worth it to bend down, why not just tell them you don’t like whatever they want to discuss/watch/hear.
Get an eng major gf.

>> No.20788501

>What was Stephen's auditive sensation?
>He heard in a profound ancient male unfamiliar melody the accumulation of the past.
>What was Bloom's visual sensation?
>He saw in a quick young male familiar form the predestination of a future.
What an insanely good set of lines, God damn.

>> No.20789387

Of the last 12 messages I have posted 7 of them. If I finish this alone I'll declare myself to have won at /lit/, and subsequently become a tripfag to celebrate

>> No.20789397

>that moment when you realize a decent amount of /lit/ “reads” for credit

>> No.20789836

>I don't really get it with Bloom
I don’t think he’s considered a complete character because he’s anyone particularly special. What really makes him so complete is that Joyce writes him in such a way you get a full picture not just of his outer thoughts but his inner feelings. You follow Bloom as he takes a shit, masturbates, reminisces about his wife, eats his lunch, and a hundred other everyday things but Joyce does such a brilliant job writing them you feel like you’re actually with Bloom when they’re happening; there are whole sections where it seems like we going along with his every conscious thought. I have other characters I like more in lit but I don’t think any one of them feels quite as real as Bloom.

>> No.20790322

this chapter is so fucking good.

>> No.20790707

Right? The whole part about him remembering Milly was really good. Here are some of my favorites from this morning's breakfast table read.

>Why might these several provisional contingencies between a guest and a hostess not necessarily preclude or be precluded by a permanent eventuality of reconciliatory union between a schoolfellow and a jew's daughter?
>Because the way to daughter led through mother, the way to mother through daughter.
First I thought this was Bloom trying to hook Stephen up with his daughter. Then I reread it and realized it's Bloom cooling his jets about the boy Milly mentioned in her letter by realizing she isn't going to date anyone as long as Molly has a say.

>What spectacle confronted them when they, first the host, then the guest, emerged silently, doubly dark, from obscurity by a passage from the rere of the house into the penumbra of the garden?
>The heaventree of stars hung with humid nightblue fruit.
I almost want to call it overwritten but the metaphor of fruit and the night sky just works so vividly in the imagination.

>With what meditations did Bloom accompany his demonstration to his companion of various constellations?
>Meditations of evolution increasingly vaster: of the moon invisible in incipient lunation, approaching perigee: of the infinite lattiginous scintillating uncondensed milky way, discernible by daylight by an observer placed at the lower end of a cylindrical vertical shaft 5000 ft deep sunk from the surface towards the centre of the earth: of Sirius (alpha in Canis Maior) 10 lightyears (57,000,000,000,000 miles) distant and in volume 900 times the dimension of our planet: of Arcturus: of the precession of equinoxes: of Orion with belt and sextuple sun theta and nebula in which 100 of our solar systems could be contained: of moribund and of nascent new stars such as Nova in 1901: of our system plunging towards the constellation of Hercules: of the parallax or parallactic drift of socalled fixed stars, in reality evermoving wanderers from immeasurably remote eons to infinitely remote futures in comparison with which the years, threescore and ten, of allotted human life formed a parenthesis of infinitesimal brevity.
It is still crazy to me that back then people could just look up and see the Milky Way. Electric light really hadn't permeated the area to such a point where that kind of sight was impossible to behold.

>> No.20791744

you know, the back-and-forth quality of this chapter sort of feels like i'm being rocked to sleep.

>> No.20791981

i will attempt to challenge your victory by default

>> No.20792769

You are far behind, pal. I've caught up with the current reading page for Ithaca. Where are you? Proteus?

>> No.20793003

Where do you think Stephen goes after leaving the Bloom household?
Will Stephen and Bloom ever meet again?

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