[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

2022-11: Warosu is now out of maintenance. Become a Patron!

/lit/ - Literature


View post   
View page     

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 362 KB, 1274x1700, D2A416E9-2879-4023-850E-FF1BE2CE3898.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20770016 No.20770016 [Reply] [Original]

Post-modern philosophy is just Western civilization coming to terms with its origin lying not in Christianity but pagans, but not Northern pagans either, just the Mediterranean, universally Human pagans (Ancient Greeks and Greek philosophers)

The ultimate redpill lies in realizing that Christianity is just reactionism, although the most virtuous and most constructive reactionism of all. Christianity is a reaction to Rome conquering Hellenistic Judea and instilling a dead-eyed martial order, with moderate material opportunity for the conquered but not much in the way of spiritual meaning, and Roman mysteries were trash.

Jesus is revered only because he (if he existed at all) was a classical philosopher in the vein of Plato long after classical philosophy had died and things like Truth and Virtue and living by what you preach stopped mattering all that much, and never in the history of humanity ever really did except for the Classical period of Ancient Greece

Essentially, the ultimate redpill lies in realizing that Jesus was nothing special not because he was just one of many preacher-gurus of first century Judea, but because if he had been born in Ancient Athens alongside Plato he would never have become revered just as Plato mostly did not become revered. Jesus is basically Plato with a God complex. A toxic philosopher and a grifter. While Jesus became a guru and cult leader, Plato simply started the Academy. Plato and Socrates had fundamental intellectual humility, Jesus did not. Jesus was not sinless. Jesus committed the sin of Pride. He could never represent Humanity and be a role model because of his intellectual hubris that ultimately leads to fascism, whether brown or red.

>> No.20770027

>>20770016
>19 year old reads nietzche
the ol' rite of passage

nietzche and post-modernism is retroactively refuted by Plato all over his dialogues. POMOs are basically sophists, as is nietzche.

>> No.20770037

>>20770027
Truth

>> No.20770038

>>20770027
Plato and idealists are retards who assume there are such things as "things in and of itself". Those "things" are a result of functions and relations not of "things in and of itself". God, the uncaused causer, is the primal symptom caused by the disease of thinking platonically.
>In other words, you are retarded.

>> No.20770042

>>20770027
>>19 year old reads nietzche
I'm 20 and read Nietzsche years ago and have enormously progressed intellectually since, far more than you have, believe me.
>nietzche and post-modernism is retroactively refuted by Plato all over his dialogues.
Plato and Hegel are metamodern. Beyond modernity. Beyond the post-modern.
>POMOs are basically sophists
hilarious misunderstanding of post-modernism. are you a JBP fan?
>as is nietzche.
hilarious misreading of "nietzche"
>>20770037
no, it's the very un-truth you dumb christcuck hylic

>> No.20770050

>>20770038
Plato is not good, but the post modernists are sophists.
>>20770042
Christcuck? Gtfo

>> No.20770060

>>20770050
>Christcuck? Gtfo
I've realized. The final enlightenment.

Christianity has become a tool of the Capital since Luther

Begone, hylic

>> No.20770061

Christ was a tranny

>> No.20770062

>>20770060
I don't know what you're talking about tripfag, I am not a christian.

>> No.20770063

>>20770042
cant tell if bait or aspergers

shit thread OP

>> No.20770070

>>20770050
Plato is a regressed sophism wherein the decadent recognize his philosophy--their lack of power and so-called virtue. This is why they externalize an "ideal". They do not have instinctually capability to lead themselves, hence resort to sophism.

>> No.20770075

>>20770038
Nominalist metaphysics, retroactively refuted by Plato

>> No.20770082

>>20770070
No, again, I'm not a Plato fanboy, but Nietzsche is not a real philosopher.

>> No.20770088

i say let us leave these modern men with their "truths", its them who are going to hell after all

>> No.20770089

>>20770082
Because philosophy for you must have some sort of system. This is the problem with philosophers which Nietzsche wrote about for retards like you. Philosophers are not just "sophis" but also "philos" with love. You are supposed to be infused with the Dionysian. It must instinctual as well.
However, you are retarded in thinking that all philosophy must be sophism, and idealism.
>Nietzsche is not a systematizer.

>> No.20770095

>>20770089
If he's not a systematizer his word is not worth a discussion, he is a literary figure.

>> No.20770096

>>20770075
This is just wrong. Holy shit, you're retarded. Plato definitely believed in a form of nominalist metaphysics.

>> No.20770098

>>20770089
Nietzche was unironically a representative of the merchant class, didn't understand metaphysics, didn't understand philosophy, and was related to Polish Jews.

>the Dionysian
the birth of tragedy is probably one of the stupidest books ever written

>> No.20770100

>>20770088
You can live the way I preach and still reach the Christian Heaven. You just need to live by the Truth. When you simply strive to be better than Jesus, not out of your own hubris, but purely to be the best possible human according to Virtue and mutual respect, you will still reach Heaven as you're a deeply moral person with a strong and Christian-like ethic.

Pascal's wager is a straw man

Pneumatic Creed
>6. Be bold, but love thy parents, siblings and children

>> No.20770101

>>20770095
Actions speak louder than words, a habit retards like you forgot.

>> No.20770105

>>20770098
You are certified the stupidest 4channer I have encountered.

>> No.20770107

>>20770098
>and was related to Polish Jews.
He wasn't but I am.
t. a Pole who's 5/8 Polish, 1/4 Jewish and 1/8 Russian

>> No.20770110

>>20770098
>the birth of tragedy is probably one of the stupidest books ever written
go kys stupid fag

>> No.20770112

>>20770107
You aren't from Poland, am I right?

>> No.20770118

>>20770096
>Plato definitely believed in a form of nominalist metaphysics.
Hahaha are you retarded? Plato's entire project was debunking nominalist-atomist-materialists

>> No.20770127

>>20770118
He believed in ideals and universals while assuming our conceptions are nominalist, fucking retarded faggot. Improve your reading comprehension tranny.

>> No.20770128

>>20770112
I am. Never lived outside of it. Why?

>> No.20770133

>>20770101
The action of dying of dementia and letting your mother take care of you in your fifties?

>> No.20770135

>>20770016
>The ultimate redpill A Pneumatic !zHiZwFUpHY
huh you were already exposed here
>>20768563

>> No.20770139

>>20770127
>while assuming our conceptions are nominalist
did you just google this topic for the first time? Baby brained pant shitter has no clue what they're talking about

i've literally seen trannies smarter than you

>> No.20770143

>>20770128
Perhaps he says that because you're a jew, not sure

>> No.20770145

>>20770016
>He could never represent Humanity and be a role model because of his intellectual hubris that ultimately leads to fascism, whether brown or red.
Seriously, why are atheists infatuated with ''representing humanity'' since fucking Kan. Why can't stop being narcissistic?

>> No.20770150

>>20770016
>The faith in the categories of reason is the cause of nihilism. We have measured the value of the world according to categories that refer to a purely fictitious world. [...] All the values by means of which we have tried so far to render the world estimable for ourselves and which then proved inapplicable and therefore devaluated the world—all these values are, psychologically considered, the results of certain perspectives of utility, designed to maintain and increase human constructs of domination—and they have been falsely projected into the essence of things. What we find here is still the hyperbolic naivete of man: positing himself as the meaning and measure of the value of things. Nihilism represents a pathological transitional stage (what is pathological is the tremendous generalization, the inference that there is no meaning at all): whether the productive forces are not yet strong enough, or whether decadence still hesitates and has not yet invented its remedies. Presupposition of this hypothesis: that there is no truth, that there is no absolute nature of things nor a "thing-in-itself." This, too, is merely nihilism—even the most extreme nihilism. It places the value of things precisely in the lack of any reality corresponding to these values and in their being merely a symptom of strength on the part of the value-positers, a simplification for the sake of life.

>> No.20770152

>>20770145
Atheists are by default effeminate and use Medici-Banker ideologies like Renaissance Humanism to understand the world

>> No.20770155

>>20770143
I'm not a Jew. At least not culturally. I identify as a Pole first and foremost. You could call me an assimilated Jew. I am for the state of Israel and the dual-state solution insofar as both parties agree to it. I am against the anti-culture of the Capital which Jewish culture has always been a part of and which is starting to destroy even the very itself under the pressure of the antinatalism of modern industrial societies

The ultimate enemy is the Capital, not the Jew. Forget the Culture of Critique and read Marx on the Jewish Question, also Thomas Sowell on middleman minorities

>> No.20770161

>>20770150
Nietzche wasn't a genius for pointing out nominalism is nihilism, plenty of people had been doing that.

Problem is, Nietzche didn't know what nominalism was and was a nominalist himself. Hence his inability to understand the Greek notion of "nature"

>> No.20770169

>>20770155
Hmp, cuckold views (I am not an antisemite)

>> No.20770172

>>20770152
>use Medici-Banker ideologies like Renaissance Hum
not me. I eschew the Capital and only in total eschewing of the Capital I managed to understand the modern world, in essence, I managed to get through to the Reality beneath the hyper-reality created by late capitalism. It was a titanic effort on my side to achieve by the age of 20, just in time to become the intellectual voice of this generation, and I also eschew the label Generation Z as its wholly created by the Capital's agents (marketers) whose very job is the pacification and commodification of rebellion, starting from the very bottom i.e. language

Orwell is here, in the *form* of BNW-to-come, but the pure idea is Orwellian. unironically

>> No.20770176

>>20770172
Lol.
What's wrong with Capital?

>> No.20770180

>>20770169
?
I'm 5/8 Polish, born in Poland, baptized, I speak Polish, never spoke Hebrew or Yiddish in my life, never observed a single Jewish cultural tradition, only the Christian ones.

I'm a Pole first and foremost

>> No.20770187

>>20770172
if you're trolling, you are doing a great job

the concept of dialectical materialism and class conflict was first proposed by Vico as part of his Divine Providence philosophy in the New Science. Marx, being a brainless child of industrialists, stole this idea and secularized it into becoming crypto-gnosticism

>> No.20770188

>>20770161
> Nietzsche says nominalism is nihilism
> Nietzsche was a nominalist himself (nihilist)
You're fucking retarded gtfo.

>> No.20770198

>>20770180
Idk, if you speak in cultural terms, I guess you're right. I thought you were an antisemite in denial. (You don't have to speak yiddish, go to israel or follow judaism just because you were born an ethnic jew)

>> No.20770202

>>20770176
It is an abstract hyper-entity that is only as malignant as the shared Ignorance of people participating in the system is strong. This fundamental Ignorance breeds chaos which then is exploited by malignant forces so various it is impossible to characterize them in one word without resolving to christcuckery or any other form of organized-religious cuckery

And it is in fact impossible to resolve it so simply, the malignant forces are as various as Humanity (and its free will's capability of acting Evil) is. Jews are a good scapegoat always because they are the most straightforward representatives of the forces of the Capital, but Jewish culture should merely be understood as one of many carriers of the Capital, not the leading one, just the most successful one from a purely ethnic standpoint, which is nevertheless a moot point because the Jews, even if they control a sizable portion of things, do not control even the half of things. Non-Jews do. Non-Jewish slaves of the Capital do. The little people who are slaves of the Capital contribute, too

Are you a slave of the Capital?

>> No.20770205

>>20770202
>Are you a slave of the Capital?
Yes, I am a part of capital in that people still need to create products such as food, housing, technology, entertainment, etc.
>You're a schizo.

>> No.20770208

>>20770161
>insert average room temp IQ take on Nietzsche
You don't understand Nietzsche.
>Nietzsche is a nihilist essentially
go back to university

>> No.20770209

>>20770198
>I thought you were an antisemite in denial.
I'm not, I'm all for Jewish culture and in fact any culture so long as:
>it's not aggressive (subversion counting as indirect aggression, see: active measures) but pacifistic instead
>is based on love and respect for all humans and not just a select group of them
for more I recommend this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_community
I achieved an enlightenment where I realized the more technical parts of this concept entirely on my own, in my search for the meaning of Polishness and Jewishness, which stemmed from my personal identity crisis overall

>> No.20770213

>>20770202
Idk what religion has to do with it, any populist characterizes the masters of capital in one belligerent word. I am not a slave of capital, neither am I a slave of ideological leaders

>> No.20770216

>>20770208
>You don't understand Nietzsche.
you prob have no clue what im even talking about

>go back to university
nietzche is only enjoyed by vaccinated university faggots

>> No.20770218

>>20770209
Okay that's fine

>> No.20770221

>>20770205
>I am a part of capital in that people still need to create products such as food, housing, technology, entertainment, etc.
>>You're a schizo.
I'm not a schizo. Ultimately it's just a question of ethical consumption. I think
>there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
is the cop-out that leads to Capitalist Realism
>is there really no alternative?
yes there is, you dumbass Mark Fisher. consume only things you consider to be truly valuable, which enhance (liberate) you as a person: technology. technique. buy first-hand technology, technique. buy second-hand everything else.

read Ellul, Nietzsche, Plato (PBUH) and repent!

>> No.20770223

>>20770216
>nietzche is only enjoyed by vaccinated university faggots
Oh, so that's why you're so retarded.
1. Never graduated university
2. is an anti-vaxxer
3. thinks Nietzsche is a nominalist (nihilist)

>> No.20770224

>>20770213
>I am not a slave of capital, neither am I a slave of ideological leaders
I hereby consider you Initiated. A non-hylic. You are in the transitional step between a hylic and a psychic. Depending on education, which ultimately must be based in ethical Will, you can attain true enlightenment and non-theistic moksha

Welcome to the Desert of the Real

>> No.20770225

>>20770221
Trully based beliefs.
Are you a socialist? (Obviously talking socialdemocrats here)

>> No.20770229

>>20770218
Dont rest just on "that's fine," Jew. These are fundamental matters pertaining to Identity, yours or mine. Be humble, be not prideful. Reading is the ultimate act of humility, not reading is the ultimate act of pride. Jews have a paradoxical, schizophrenic identity: a well-read culture that's weirdly prideful at the same time

>> No.20770231

>>20770224
Is this a schizo sect, lol?
Thank you, I'm in a perfectly good position rn, I will not read guenon

>> No.20770236

>>20770223
I'm an anti-vaxxer myself. Not because I'm anti-science, but because I'm categorically against the State injecting people with experimental concoctions. My reasoning is thus: even if this one time it's safe, it might simply be a policy experiment for the future.

COINTELPRO redpilled me as fuck
>>20770225
Read about COINTELPRO. The entire decade of the 1960s, the entire "revolution," it all was engineered.

As the black prophet preached: the revolution will not be televised...

>> No.20770237

>>20770229
I am not a Jew, literally. Although it sounds pretty based desu. Whenever antisemites talk about jews, it sounds like a pretty based thing to be, I don't know what their intention is with these critiques.

>> No.20770239

>>20770237
Fuck, I wanted to write t b h not desu

>> No.20770242

>>20770231
>Is this a schizo sect, lol?
As much a sect as Plato's Academy was. More of a university and foundation, really. At least that's my goal. The only appropriate idols for Western people are Socrates and Plato. Everyone else was either a false prophet or like Socrates/Plato but not for Western people from the start so you should stop LARPing

>> No.20770247

>>20770236
>I'm an anti-vaxxer myself.
Let me elucidate before this gets taken out of context: I'm anti-experimental-vaxxer.

I'm not against vaccines proven by science to be safe and effective. I am not anti-science. I am anti-state-rushing-things. That should always light a red bulb in your head: whenever someone, anyone, tries to rush things. You shouldn't begin from suspicion, just skepticism of the superficially visible motivations

>> No.20770248

>>20770236
COINTELPRO is against the 60s revolution. In any case I am not from the USA, I am not talking about US socialism, hippies or whatnot.

>> No.20770250

>>20770242
Weren't you a Nietzsche fan?

>> No.20770265

>>20770250
He's a run-of-the-mill dilettante.

>> No.20770282
File: 38 KB, 351x500, 9F67FBE2-7231-44CD-B737-1BFA58F417DD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20770282

>>20770248
>COINTELPRO is against the 60s revolution.
COINTELPRO is about deep infiltration and subversion that began in 1956 already. At the height of Cold War paranoia. US Government, which has always represented the Capital (the only time it didn't was in 1776 the year the project was born as the freemasonic ideal of personal liberation), went kinda nutty and schizo from all the paranoia and the existential threat that the USSR fundamentally posed. so capitalism kinda unleashed the Devil.

my main guidance: the enemy is the Capital, the Capital centers on Washington, D.C., always treat the CIA with deep but calm suspicion (knowing who the ultimate handlers are/what the ultimate handler is), and finally:

to save the world try to subvert D.C. and the CIA from the hands of the Capital. fight Wall Street and the City. that's where the fucking Devil lies and he steers it all regardless if it's America, China or even Russia

Fun fact: Bob Dylan is Initiated. He loves to hint at Them:
https://youtu.be/m_wAZ02JUtM
he is considered: an artist, a provocateur, a mere troll.
I think he's a mystic. like PKD.
sorry if I went too off the deep end here but basically who (what) Dylan is referring to here is the Capital. he's still "doing it" because he sold his soul to the Capital. I realized he is Initiated in truly Pneumatic terms when I found his song "I Dreamed I Saw St. Augustine" it's when I realized it wasn't just a one-off joke about a pact with the devil, he truly considers to have lost (sold) his soul as he matured from a child (and then rebellious adolescent and young adult) into an adult.

he's not a troll, he's simply the ultimate modern artist, the modern Faust (all artists who are as Initiated and conscious as he is are, others are just unconsciously swindled by the Capital)
for more "initiative" material I recommend this very eye-opening and quite esoteric document by Barely Sociable on "The Music Industry's Darkest Secret." it's actually very well-grounded and not nutty at all
https://youtu.be/Z_y_zeql7pc
it's chilling when you truly realize. artists are whores. sure, that's a banal realization. but artists as the whores of "THE DEVIL?" that's a chilling realization

As a true artist: always fight the Devil. Always fight the Capital

>> No.20770284

the reason i like nietzsche is because he is pleasant to read
he somehow managed to overcome his german autism and actually produced prose ranging everywhere from passable to beautiful
i honestly think the basic humanity of anyone that can't write well enough to be understood with clarity should be in serious question

>> No.20770287

>>20770282
Glowie first half, schizo second part is my verdict on this post

>> No.20770290

>>20770284
>i honestly think the basic humanity of anyone that can't write well enough to be understood with clarity should be in serious question
the struggle with obscure writing is purely (and purily) a midwit one. continental philosophy's obscure language has its value: it filters. philosophers shouldn't engage in matters of proselytizing and populism, they should address the intelligent people in power first and foremost, with the people only ever coming second

to sow the seeds of progress in capitalism, begin from the head

>> No.20770295

>>20770287
Personal liberation: become your own glowie. This is the summary of my Deleuzian schizoanalysis of reality.

>> No.20770320

>>20770290
>the struggle with obscure writing is purely (and purily) a midwit one
no it isn't you gigantic fucking pseud retard, which is why there are still dumb arguments about what <x> or <y> meant with some unclear sentences centuries after the fact when it was never the intention for them to be mysterious, they just sucked at communicating
>philosophers shouldn't engage in matters of proselytizing and populism
most people don't give a fuck about philosophy, nigger. anselm is easy enough to understand, how many people have you caught reading him at random? if anything, there's probably more people reading unintelligible garbage because they're elitists and want to look like they're smart than there are people genuinely engaging with clearly written philosophy from the scholastic period
there are more niggermutts today that have finished the phenomenology of spirit than there are people that have read cur deus hom despite the latter being much shorter and much easier to digest
pretending to be smart by failing at basic communication is as midwit as it fucking comes

>> No.20770325

>>20770282
>muh capitalism
non-white hands typed this
kill yourself

>> No.20770331

>>20770320
you know, you're right, there's a kind of capitalism to how philosophy is practiced. in a sense, it's a market of ideas, isn't it?

I agree with you in principle, but I think Truth should never be sacrificed for brevity.

>> No.20770335

>>20770325
I'm against the Capital, not capitalism. I'm white and post-Christian. Race doesn't exist anyway, only philosophies do.

>> No.20770359

>>20770331
brevity is truth, there's more value to a good koan or an inspired passage from the bible than there is to 1000 pages of repetitive speculative autism
that's why all these "systems" prime you from the beginning by saying you should consider them invulnerable to any criticism from outside and that you need to immerse yourself deep within the tradition and have an intuitive understanding followed by an immanent criticism
in other words
>join our hermetic circle and admit defeat implicitly or fuck you. oh, you read all that shit and still don't agree? well, fuck you x2, guess you were just too much of a brainlet to *really* understand it at my level, heh heh
this was never the attitude of true philosophers. not even self-respecting theologians of the christian, islamic, and jewish traditions would have said
>lol well you kinda have to agree with me that god exists if you want to have a debate little buddy!
on the contrary, they sought out people that agreed with them on nothing and thought that the strength of their arguments and their truth could prevail in the face of absolute ignorance and deceit

>> No.20770395

>>20770133
The action of writing way better books than Plato ever did and permanently changing the course of human history

>> No.20770416

>>20770359
>brevity is truth
ultimate brevity is banality. which is true, but doesn't say much about *the Truth* itself, which as a concept would need elaborating extremely deeply. this may not involve cryptic prose but it would be a long and quite difficult text (necessitating some basic philosophical knowledge) most certainly

Rick Roderick's 7-hour long cycle of 8 lectures titled "the Self under Siege: Philosophy in the 20th century" which starts from the 3 masters of suspicion (Marx, Nietzsche, Freud) and ends on Baudrillard is I would say the peak of philosophical education in simple terms, but it's still not something I think a midwit would truly grasp, and it's 7-hours long total, with a lecture of each philosopher's philosophy summarized in a really surprisingly accessible yet surprisingly true manner, over the course of almost an hour

so if you're struggling with these things yet are not a midwit and an intellectual, I recommend: https://youtu.be/4wetwETy4u0

>> No.20770424

>>20770416
>ultimate brevity is banality
you're stupid, and i'm not surprised you're impressed by long books void of any meaning when you're unwilling to do any practice
and no, sitting on your ass and reading is not practice
here's my idea for you, turn off your internet and spend 7 hours thinking by yourself and for yourself

>> No.20770452

>>20770424
you're confusing vita contemplativa with vita activa. one cannot exist without the other

>> No.20770893

>>20770395
A retard wrote this.

>> No.20770911
File: 182 KB, 586x890, 17.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20770911

based and confused

>> No.20771323

>>20770911
?

>> No.20771328

>>20770096
>t. never read Cratylus

>> No.20771346

>>20770016
Bait thread by first time Nietzsche reader

>> No.20771424

>>20770100
>When you simply strive to be better than Jesus, not out of your own hubris, but purely to be the best possible human according to Virtue
>implying that Jesus was good

>> No.20771437

>>20771424
I think he was aside from his God complex. Plato and Socrates and the "Philosopher" ideal is the best role model imo, not Jesus
>>20771346
it's a normal interpretation

>> No.20771447
File: 57 KB, 600x400, main-qimg-afb1aacaf851150a681b483814508b53-lq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20771447

>Quantum physics affirms platonism
>Modern genomics refutes tabula rasa, and subsequently affirms a priori knowledge
In short, OP is retarded, and this thread is gay.

>> No.20771516

>>20771447
except it doesn't, quantum fields have no relation with the concept of platonic forms or ideals and there is nothing in physics that corroborates that heisenberg quote that is only taken seriously by /x/tier retards that unironically believe in quantum mysticism

>> No.20771523

>>20771447
>affirms a priori knowledge
also wrong as there's no genetic or neurological evidence for a priori knowledge being a thing

>> No.20771546

>>20771447
This is what pseuds actually believe.

>> No.20771577

>>20771516
>Heisenberg is dead wrong, just trust me bro
Give me a long-winded autistic post explaining why this is wrong. Otherwise cope and seethe.

>> No.20771592

>>20770038
actually the thing itself is not visible to the human world

>> No.20771599

>>20770118
Democritus was unironically a fag

>> No.20771623

>>20771546
See >>20771577

>> No.20771655

>>20770016
>Post-modern philosophy is just Western civilization coming to terms with its origin lying not in Christianity but pagans, but not Northern pagans either, just the Mediterranean, universally Human pagans (Ancient
yes, until you added Greeks instead of Romans by mistake. You're forgiven though.

>The ultimate redpill lies in realizing that Christianity is just reactionism,
More of a placebo, to be honest. It diagnoses the symptoms but provides no treatment.

>Jesus is revered only because he (if he existed at all) was a classical philosopher in the vein of Plato long after classical philosophy had died and things like Truth and Virtue and living by what you preach stopped mattering all that much, and never in the history of humanity ever really did except for the Classical period of Ancient Greece
Partly - mostly - true.

Although Jesus, taken a specific redeemer or social reformer for the Jewish people and their strange ideas (monotheism, child mutilation, theological-racial supremacism), is the correct view.

>Plato and Socrates had fundamental intellectual humility, Jesus did not. Jesus was not sinless. Jesus committed the sin of Pride. He could never represent Humanity and be a role model because of his intellectual hubris that ultimately leads to fascism, whether brown or red.
I'd argue Jesus is like a Socrates to us; that is: he seems foolishly telling us nothing we didn't already know and trying to play the guru (see: contemporary view of Socrates amongst his own people via Aristophanes). But 'we' only have this impression of Jesus when he's taken outside of his context as a reformer 'for' Jews and Jews alone.

>Christianity is just reactionism, although the most virtuous and most constructive reactionism of all.
Demonstrably false. Sparing you a long essay of the conflation of actual virtue and actual vice with barbarian nonsense religious commandments (some of which are entirely viceful), it's moreso that Socrates had nothing to say about the things that Galen was talking about; as one is a practical-minded person with skill in a useful art and craft and the other is a wandering wouldbe guru, impressing children and the unlearned.

>> No.20771700

>>20770016
post -modernist when i make a metanarrative where i can fuck their mom every night and it's fully ethical (suddenly they want a ethical framework based on love and not on self pleasuring)

>> No.20771717

>>20770016
On behalf of Christians everywhere, you're welcome.

>> No.20771731

>>20771447
>>Modern genomics refutes tabula rasa
completely wrong, you're tabula rasa by the fact of genetic recombination being random and you not being a homogenous mixture of your parents but a randomly heterogenous one

>> No.20771744

>>20771655
>But 'we' only have this impression of Jesus when he's taken outside of his context as a reformer 'for' Jews and Jews alone.
have you actually read the Bible? he's a total self-righteous guru. Socrates was nothing like that, he was a skeptic first and foremost

>> No.20771770

>>20771744
>he's a total self-righteous guru. Socrates was nothing like that, he was a skeptic first and foremost
Socrates via Aristophanes, I said. Where Socrates is sitting in a tree and speaking nonsense to impress very small children and the unlearned.

How much of that is true in the first place is, I suppose, debatable but it's the same sort of thing; it's like showing me the 10 Hebrew Commandments and acting like "i" don't understand good conduct for obeying a far more detailed and nuanced list of Laws which cover and far exceed those 10,
i.e. "telling (us) nothing we didn't already know and making out like it's amazing and profound wisdom (when it's demonstrably inferior)."

>> No.20771784
File: 166 KB, 583x792, Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-R06610,_Oswald_Spengler.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20771784

The ultimate redpill is realizing that Christianity was the only religion that could bring about Faustian civilization. It was the synthetical result of the conflict between the Magian Jacobian-Petrine branch (Exemplified in Matthew and Mark), and the Apollonian Pauline-Johannine branch (exemplified in Luke and John). Only through this synthesis could Faustian civilization take shape.

>> No.20771785

>>20771770
trying to equate Socrates to Jesus won't work. sorry. we know what Socrates philosophy was. we know what Jesus teachings were. two different people

>> No.20771794

>>20770016
The REAL redpill is that the Vedas are true

>> No.20771795

>>20771784
>The ultimate redpill is realizing that Christianity was the only religion that could bring about Faustian civilization
that's Spengler's reactionism if that's his thesis, I wouldn't know, I always had better things to read than his drivel (some concepts are interesting though)

Christianity was only adopted by the barbarians as a way of integrating into Roman/post-Roman society as barbarians. everything else after that is cope. the "faustian" spirit is simply a result of high population density and precariousness of post-roman europe which boosts cooperation and creativity

>> No.20771801

>>20771785
>trying to equate Socrates to Jesus won't work. sorry. we know what Socrates philosophy was. we know what Jesus teachings were. two different people
oh well, if you don't want to head the christians off from retreating back to this position when you refute their current one of Jesus the guru then that's your error. Call me when you need me.

>> No.20771808

>>20770016
This isn't even Nietzsche it's just you coping with being a christcuck who is too embarassed to affirm the Bible and the church. If you aren't going to step around shit in the street on the way home, at least take your shoes off in the house.

>> No.20771823

>>20771731
>you're tabula rasa by the fact of genetic recombination being random and you not being a homogenous mixture of your parents but a randomly heterogenous one
Legit retard.

>> No.20771826

>>20771801
when you call Socrates a guru because he was parodied in a comedy or not too accurately portrayed in another biography that's your issue. i'm talking about the consensus view of Socrates. that's the thing with philosophy in contrast to theology, it's free from bias because Philosophy's aim is intellectual rigor through which one can attain sophia, and that requires reading oneself of logical fallacies and a more emotionless approach

>> No.20771834

>>20771785
>we know what Socrates philosophy was.
In fact.. we don't. We have Platos dialogues which are largely absent of all Socrates charges and any real mention of him as being responsible for Alcibiades (this surviving and being taken as The Gospel on philosophy in Christian times - after Christians had destroyed the libraries and decided to kill learned persons), on one hand, then we have Aristophanes contemporary account of Socrates as a goofy charlatan.

When we read Socrates through Plato we notice the conspicuous absence of anything real or substantial in anything he says, compared to Galen or Archimedes for instance, and we notice a hero worship around him in spite of any real-world accomplishment.

Jesus and Socrates, then, have more in common.

>> No.20771843

>>20771795
>I always had better things to read than his drivel (some concepts are interesting though)
In a better world, this would be everyone's response to Nietzsche

>> No.20771856

>>20771826
>i'm talking about the consensus view of Socrates. that's the thing with philosophy in contrast to theology, it's free from bias because Philosophy's aim is intellectual rigor through which one can attain sophia, and that requires reading oneself of logical fallacies and a more emotionless approach
Oh, I agree with this, I mentioned in that first reply how Jesus is useless to anybody who isn't already a Jew lol

But my point (see: above) is that there's really no substance going on with Socrates either. Other than the really threadbare connection of the monad from Plato to Socrates, which Plotinus refutes anyway, but which later Christians held up as somehow confirming their whacky-races ideology of real-world not mattering, immortality after death, etc. Socrates seems to have been held up primarily because he was martyred by the pagans, and so his corpse could be made to provide parallel to Jesus. Or something like this. I have no idea why, to be honest, but you'll find Catholics masturbating all day long about how Plato was so wise and how poor Socrates was persecuted for being a good person. ask them about it. i think they're just appealing to the unlearned also, myself.

>> No.20771922

>>20770016
>A Pneumatic !zHiZwFUpHY
>Pneumatic
You do know that your wannabe Stirner thought stoicism was even more retarded than platonism, right?

>> No.20772097

>>20770016
>Jesus is basically Plato with a God complex. A toxic philosopher and a grifter.

See you your problem is that you took the bible literally, common mistake for intellectuals so no shame there!
Maybe next time try reading about catholic theology instead of speaking babble :)

>> No.20772157

>>20772097
> you took the bible literally, common mistake for intellectuals so no shame there!
>Maybe next time try reading about catholic theology instead of speaking babble
>smiley face
and this is how religion causes people to be evil and stupid; to be forced to adopt an abusive stance against reason and logic in order to verbally dismiss the rationality of valid inquiry into a nonsensical thing which is demonstrated to be nonsensical.

From this mentality the person is but one step away from committing and rationalizing any evil action, as the sacrosanct reverence towards things actually True and things actually Good has already been partially demolished.

>> No.20772234

>>20770223
hahhahahaa holy shit you're a vaxxnigger

you don't get to have valid opinions, sorry

>> No.20772235

>>20772157
yea but no, i was just saying he shouldnt base his conclusion on false conjecture. The smiley face was there because im a cool dude ;)

You need to relax babe, you think too much. Painting on clouds

>> No.20772255

>>20772235
>im a cool dude ;)
You'll be a crispy roadkill if you ever run into me, animal. You're ticking every box for dangerous pervert consciously on the prowl and masking actions behind soft false smiles.

>> No.20772267

>>20771856
Socrates-worship is just a symptom of declining knowledge of Plato’s works. All of the ancients went around praising ‘Divine Plato’ not ‘Divine Socrates’, but Plato never appears in his own works, causing the unlearned to go on about Socrates instead of Plato. But who cares what they think?

>> No.20772268

>>20772255
Well thats a logical and reasonable response. What a moral and rational person you are. Praise Christ.

>> No.20772286 [DELETED] 

>>20770016
dnr, I need one book and that's the bible. Get fucked anti-christ

>> No.20772294

>>20770016
>Plato had humility
lol

>> No.20772306

>>20772286
I need 110 books (56 books of the Diaogues and 54 books of the Enneads)

>> No.20772323 [DELETED] 

>>20772306
wtf does that even mean? Just go church every sunday and pray for a better life, it worked for me. Just stop reading this nonsense

>> No.20772340

>>20772294
He named his primary inspirations in the titles of his books and generally tried to obscure himself. He was self-conscious and his responses measured

>> No.20772348

>>20772268
these are dangerous times, skin-walker.

>> No.20772355

>>20772323
I don’t begrudge anyone there faith, even if my theological disagreements with Christianity are too many for me to become a believer. If you are curious the primary disagreement I have, is that the concept of Hell or eternal uncreation is inconsistent with what I believe to be true, that ‘God is never the enemy of man’. However, I think that regardless of who is correct, if we both pray for the improvement of ourselves and others we shall then, if Necessity permits, be led towards the Good.

>> No.20772359 [DELETED] 

>>20772355
what do those fancy words mean? Read the bible and you will know the truth

>> No.20772370

>>20772359
I'll take the bauble seriously if you go to heaven right this instant and prove to me how much you believe in immortal life after death.

>> No.20772390

9/10 excellent troll thread. Started off quite obvious but still got the pseuds talking. Well done OP

>> No.20772399

>>20772390
I'll believe you're serious if you submit to having your head cut off. checkmate.

>> No.20772400

>>20772359
I have written my post again for you, because I am willing to be understood by everyone.

I don’t think less of anyone because of their faith. I believe that God never causes harm to anyone. I therefore don’t believe in Hell and therefore am not a Christian. I hope that by praying in good faith and by trying not to sin I will be led towards the truth, whatever it may be.

>> No.20772411

>>20771849

>> No.20772415

>>20772340
lol

>> No.20772439

Western civilization is native to the Eastern Mediterranean (Greece, Anatolia, The Levant, Egypt) and Mesopotamia.

>> No.20772451

>>20772340
he was a biographer making stuff up and wrote a utopian fanfic about what would happen if all the men were really buff.

he's famous peripherally through Aristotle who was only famous because he was exiled from the civlized world and ended up teaching Alexander the Great. IT'D BE LIKE IF MY ART TEACHER WAS GIVEN CREDIT FOR MY FUCKING BUSINESS

>> No.20772457

>>20772439
pure fucking lies, the Etruscans and the Baltic Barbarians were doing the Amber Trade to Memphis long before Persians even existed.

>> No.20772461

>>20770016
>The ultimate redpill lies in realizing that Christianity is just reactionism

Wrong. Your completely ahistorical argument fails. The role of Jesus within Israel as the 'Suffering Servant' prophesied by Isaiah (died circa 7th century bce), and bringer of the 'new covenant' (aka 'new testament') prophesied by Jeremiah (died circa 570 bce), was established centuries before the advent of the Roman Empire, and Rome's conquering of Judea (63 bce).

Even if you doubt the prophecies, you cannot dispute that the meaning and logic of those prophecies was the source of Jesus's claims within the Jerusalem community, and they were likewise the source of his recognition as the long-prophesied Jewish Messiah. The Roman Empire was just a sideshow in all this.

>> No.20772462

>>20770016
>Nietzsche
Too cheery, too optimistic for my taste.

Thomas Ligotti's The Conspiracy against the Human Race is the final redpill.

>> No.20772472

>>20772461
>The role of Jesus within Israel as the 'Suffering Servant' prophesied by Isaiah (died circa 7th century bce), and bringer of the 'new covenant' (aka 'new testament') prophesied by Jeremiah (died circa 570 bce),
>you doubt the prophecies,

>completely ahistorical argument

>> No.20772475
File: 2.20 MB, 1704x794, cock bar.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20772475

>>20772461
>The Roman Empire was just a sideshow in all this.

>> No.20772498

come and hear, ye gentile mob
for i am the son of god
and i'm here to tell you how to cut your nob
(it's my job)
all your science and innovations
and your empire built of nations
can't compare to judea, who is so fair
and i declare
that we are baals chosen race
you can tell because we're great
and our history books say so
and so there
(I DONT CARE)

for my daddy's god of all creation
and he decrees genital mutilation
of our own boys
and it makes us mad
(that's my dad!)

and even though you found is feeble
you'll be sure we're the chosen people
cos we're guarded against logic by our brain
(which is insane)

and though you're nailing me to the cross
don't you doubt that i'm your big boss and
ARRGHH ARGRH
AGWHGHK
DJHFK
WFUKCK
WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME
ARGEHGH

>> No.20772627
File: 9 KB, 368x158, 71782030.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20772627

>>20770335
>Race isn't real

Thread over, you've over played your hand OP

>> No.20772974

>>20770127
>>20770038
Holy shit

You are retarded

Kill yourself asap

>> No.20773632
File: 1.11 MB, 1519x1352, Emperor_for_Wiki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20773632

>>20772974
yeah i tend to agree. Plato IS an idiot, but that person is wrong on the technical reasoning as to 'why'.

although..>>20770038
>God, the uncaused causer, is the primal symptom caused by the disease of thinking platonically.
This bit is quite accurate, and well said in its simplicity. I'm stealing this.you're welcome.

>> No.20774509

>>20770016
I swear I've read this exact post before, a couple weeks ago.
Western civ doesn't exist, just Rome - and Rome doesn't exist. Rome is in sheeps clothing (where to hide where no one will find you, but in the body of a crucified man?) passed down through centuries in secret. Rome's greatest trick was making us think that Rome is gladiators and red robes, and not a thousand years, or more, of syncretic coagulation - for the sake of technique. Why else would their symbol be a man *nailed* to the cross? They justify it through paganism - God commanded it. It's no different today.
If you own animals, you know that you can forget to feed them, and you can also in a bout of pity give them more than normal - regardless, every time they encounter food, they gobble it up. Say - how do you think the Gods feed us?
What's the REAL difference between christanity and paganism - preparation aesthetics. How do you wish to slice the beast? Doesn't matter - same blood, same people = same spirit.
The black iron prison isn't just Roman persecution of the Church fathers - it's the entire scheme - both mediterranean paganism and the worship of the cadaver converge into a single point that could squeeze through the asshole of time like a shit tranfusion to populate the gut biome of the future - both depend on a holy other. Nazi germany was played like a fiddle by the Gods when the exact same scenario repeated itself - ironclad death adders vs skeletons with skin. Who would win? We use bait, nets, spears or hands to catch fish. Has there not been something in the past few hundred years that felt it was being 'lifted up' through history?...
See, kaczynski is ALSO wrong - technology is the enemy, precisely because this WHOLE TIME, the Gods themselves have been incarnate in the creaking of steel and the hum of electricity, and have truly tricked us into thinking that they are at most just a product of manifestation and synchronicity. Every thunderous war isn't preceeded by turmoil but by a 'return to spirituality' - war doesn't happen against said spirituality, but in it's name. Every war is stained with the broken waters of an astral mother giving birth to a new archon. It's motivated reasoning on ones behalf to deny that the internet, alongside all technology, has only facilitated the creation of a far more mysterious world than that of antiquity - where we in a single 'recognition' see that jokes are both funny and threatening. Every reading of a philosopher that isn't noticing how they all fight for their own identity in a world ever more bleached (it's not that technology is artificial, but that because artifice uses technology as it's white 'ghost sheet') is to give ones own identity to Rome - not to civlization - but to the machine. It's man vs the entire universe or nothing at all.
Nietzsche was kept alive for 10 years as a disabled man, and all people care about whether he was a fascist or marxist. This should tell you everything you need to know.

>> No.20774834

>>20770016
Can you stop being pretentious?

>> No.20774875

>>20770016
>assumes Jesus was a philosopher in the style of Classical Greece
>proceeds to make a series of barely formed assertions that are little more than shower thoughts on the basis of this
/lit/ is garbage because people here don't actually read. People on /v/ actually play video games. People on /mu/ actually listen to music. People on /tv/ actually watch television and films. Not so for the /lit/izen! Anonymous posters from all over come here and, for reasons known only to themselves, proceed to confidently vomit forth opinions in regard to a wide variety of subjects it is evident they have never once read about. /lit/ is second only to /his/ in this respect.

>> No.20774916

>>20771823
you're a legit retard for skipping biology 101
>>20772097
I read the Bible as a very intricate metaphor where Jesus isn't even proclaiming a religion but a philosophy. So the opposite of literalness. My conclusion is that Christianity is just deified philosophy, of Jesus the grifter, formulated by Saul turning into Paul the grifter, and it being just classical philosophy with religious elements hamfisted into it, based on an intricate system of cope that links it together with the Judaist tradition to boot

christianity sucks. anyone whose goal is to be authentic has to end up by dropping christianity and Nietzsche was obviously right. hence post-modernism (whose father is obviously Nietzsche). hence my post: post-modernism is the Western civilization realizing christianity is the false protagonist of thought and value, the real protagonist being Ancient Greece. before Nietzsche the dominant view centered on Christianity with ancient Greece being thought of as merely a useful supplement and one pagan predecessor among many. wrong. it is the origin and Christianity is completely redundant

but I dont think it should be discarded. politically, world religions should be bolstered in fact, theyre a useful opium for the masses and Marx was wrong in discarding it

>> No.20774930

>>20772461
the fact that only you consider Jesus to fulfill these prophecies and the believers of the faith which actually produced these prophecies don't consider Jesus to be anything than a false prophet at all, kind of disproves christianity. you're believing in an offshoot sect with no legitimacy.

my post already acknowledges this banal reality and focuses more on the emotional-historical reason behind christianity. hellenized judaism. the bottomline is that it has 0 legitimacy

>> No.20774940

>>20774875
>>assumes Jesus was a philosopher in the style of Classical Greece
that's not what I said. I said that classical philosophy had long been dead by then and people yearned for moral guidance and proper spiritual debate, hence the trillions of sects in Judea, which were all led by snake-oil salesmen and grifters whose worldviews were just cannibalized earlier legitimate religions and philosophies, kind of like Theosophy. 0 spiritual value.

Jesus was a smart cult leader and he was basically a philosopher gone wrong is what my point is. he wasn't merely a philosopher, perhaps on the inside he was, but on the outside he was someone who utilized intelligence to deify himself, fool people and make them follow him. at the very least he was a narcissist who did not care for Sophia

>> No.20775091

>>20774916
>My conclusion is that Christianity is just deified philosophy, of Jesus the grifter, formulated by Saul turning into Paul the grifter, and it being just classical philosophy with religious elements hamfisted into it, based on an intricate system of cope that links it together with the Judaist tradition to boot

But you're ignoring the bible's deep internal logic. Just because you dont get something, doesnt give you the right to dismiss it. Try to listen a little more while suppressing your urge to prove how "insightful" you are.

> Nietzsche was obviously right.
Nietzsche wasn't as smart as you think he was. Learn to think for yourself

>> No.20775108

>>20774875
We've been trying to get OP to read for about a month now. Instead, he doubled down on his retardation and even went out and got himself a tripcode. It's bleak.

>> No.20776005

>>20775091
>But you're ignoring the bible's deep internal logic.

deeeep internal logic..

How does 'Original Sin' coming from Humans desiring to tell right from wrong; good from evil, constitute deep internal logic? It makes out that the actual God of Everything desires humans to idle in a state of blind and ignorant evil.

>Learn to think for yourself
No, don't do that.

>> No.20776020

>>20770027
truth is not refuted. platonists don't understand the difference between logic and philosophy, simple as

>> No.20776072

>>20770016
i can tell that you haven't read Genealogy of Morals, Twilight of the Idols, or The Antichrist, which are the ones you should have read, and i'm pretty dubious you've ever actually read any Nietzsche other than out-of-context quotes from Zarathustra, Birth of Tragedy, and BGaE. please stop this is so embarrassing for you

>> No.20776090

>>20774916
not the other anon, but do you really not understand the difference between something being randomly determined (genetic recombination) and being undetermined (tabula rasa)? if so i would be happy to assist with examples since "examples are the go-kart of the judgment, which he, who is naturally deficient in that faculty, cannot afford to dispense with"

>> No.20776122

>>20776005
>>
>How does 'Original Sin' coming from Humans desiring to tell right from wrong; good from evil, constitute deep internal logic? It makes out that the actual God of Everything desires humans to idle in a state of blind and ignorant evil.
Thats a misinformed take. Read up on the definition of Evil as the absence of the Good and try again.

>> No.20776192

>>20776122
One day we'll have you hooked up to a lie detector before you engage in apologisms for this book of nonsense.

>> No.20776229

>>20776192
Nigga why are you gonna go and do dat? Im out here getting stuff done, while you up in some house somewhere acting conceited. I oughta fade ur ass for playing like some chumpy chimp.

>> No.20776256

>>20776229
I mean to say that I don't believe that this, >>20776122 is a sincere response, and that if you were hooked up to a true/false detector that you'd cease immediately to make excuses for an obviously terrible and obviously evil religion.

It might be the one thing that actually stops you engaging in obvious vice in order to defend this nonsense.

>> No.20776309

>>20770042
>I'm 20 and read Nietzsche years ago and have enormously progressed intellectually since, far more than you have, believe me.
My fucking sides at this sentence

>> No.20776335

>>20776256
Babygirl I'm a philosopher well versed in western and eastern thought. And the virtues espoused in the Bible and Catholic thought are in agreement with those expressed in other respectable lines of thought. Just because you disagree with their metaphysics, doesnt give you the right to discard the whole religion.

>> No.20776729

>>20776335
>Babygirl I'm a philosopher
You fuckin wot m8

How did I predict that you would devolve in greater vice to defend your religion? Ask yourself how I knew this and how you were unable to do anything but this.

>the virtues espoused in the Bible and Catholic thought
the virtues are 1) pre-christian, 2) not jewish and 3) are impossible to be reconciled as tese religions are forced to conflate the actual Virtues and actual Vices with deformed Jewish Nonsense, undermining any sense of reason on the subject, where virtue is to stone your child for calling you a drunkard, and where vice is to not cut his penis apart, etc. This is obviously why, (one aspect of the thing anyway) I suggest, this religion cannot and has not ever been able to teach virtue or teach against vice - you cannot explain the benefits of virtue if you're forced to do theatrics to include barbarian theocratic genital mutilation ethos at the heart of 'what' virtue even is, let alone explain how, e.g. religious extremists in the modern world are insane persons operating from total vice.

I already mentioned the faggots and child-abusers (lowest of the low) who were the first western christians that Paul was talking to and convinced to follow him with his doctrine of "it is impossible to be good", and so on..

>> No.20776737

ed.
> I already mentioned paul
actually i didn't, that was another thread.

>> No.20776773

>>20776729
You really need to chill out. You're attacking your own manifestations. Just take a breather and try to approach the subject with a clear mind.

>> No.20776792

>>20770098
I reject entirely his philosophy about the Dionysian without having read it. Because Dionysus is a bitch.

>> No.20776793

>>20776773
Uh huh, you have no responses to the points raised. Do you see why this is why I think it would be so much easier to have you hooked up to a lie detector and prevent you from this deflective babble and have you just admit you've been in error and repent from it? It would be better for you I think.

>> No.20776828

>>20776793
The points raised are built on a shallow foundation. The slightest blow topples the whole thing over. Your arrogance deludes you. But I must admit that I enjoy your badinage

>> No.20776911

>>20776828
>more garbage , more refusing to discuss the points
I enjoy your weaseling out of refuting any of the points raised. Yeah it's just easier to do the lie detector thing.

>> No.20776922

>>20776911
>weaseling out of refuting any of the points raised
but thats u :^)

>> No.20776941

>>20776922
aaand that's why you need psych counselling. When challenged you refuse reason, you steadily begin to distort reason and end up accusing the other person of what you're doing.

Sociopathy via religion. All because you cannot present a rational case for why your crazy theology is not crazy.

>> No.20776958

>>20776941
>your crazy theology
But anon... I'm not even Christian :/

>> No.20777189

>>20773632
It's wrong because the vibes are different in warhammer 40k

>> No.20777215

>>20772475
>>20772472
Historically, we know there was a first century Christian movement, and the New Testament, most or all of which was written in the first century, tells us what the motivating ideas and beliefs of that movement were.

Quite simply, the hypothesis posted in the OP had nothing to do with it. It is an utterly ahistorical hypothesis.

>the fact that only you consider Jesus to fulfill these prophecies

Only me? It is obvious that the entire first century Christian movement believed the prophecies, and believe that Jesus was their fulfillment.

That is why I say it's irrelevant whether you think the prophecies themselves, or their fulfillment, are true, as such. Presumably, you believe neither the prophecies themselves, nor their claimed fulfillment of them in Christ. But it is not a question of *your* belief. It is a question of what the first-century Christians believed.

Again, the New Testament amply documents that driving force of the first-century Christian movement was the belief that the Hebrew prophecies in Isaiah and Jeremiah (among other prophecies) were true, and that Christ was the fulfillment of those prophecies.

Thus, it is not a question of emotion or faith -- whether mine, or your lack thereof. It's a question of looking at the historical facts -- the New Testament texts that document the ideas and beliefs that drove the growth of Christianity in the first century.

There is zero basis in history to conclude that "Christianity is just reactionism," a theory which you posit entirely without proof. Understandably, since all the evidence flies in the face of your theory.

>> No.20777335

>>20777215
I think you replied to the wrong person, did you mean the OP?

>>20777189
Nonsense, it's analogous to religion serving as an external catheter tube and colostomy bag, as the Emperor explained.

>> No.20777356

>>20777215
Well if you did mean to reply to me, my point was that Jesus has nothing for anybody unless they're a Jew and need saving from evil crazy delusions about 'god' demanding genital mutilation, and being evil and stupid and these sorts of things.

if you reject this, where Jesus claims to uphold Jewish Law and comes "only for the lost sheep of israel" then you're following Paul, which is a misanthropic sort of Jewish reactionism to the realization that "(with an evil god) it is impossible to be good", coupled with a refusal to give up on the heathen delusions altogether.

>> No.20777371

>>20770042
You've never read Nietzsche (or anyone else), let alone "years ago." You have classes coming up, you should probably get back to the Khan Academy or you'll have to repeat summer-school all over again.

>> No.20777743

>>20777335
except we aren't talking about religion we're talking about platonism

also
>warhammer 40k lore
Maybe you shouldn't be in this thread?

>> No.20777806

>>20777743
>except we aren't talking about religion we're talking about platonism
man made valid comparison of the journey from plato to the european version of yahweh.

>citation
>Maybe you shouldn't be in this thread?
hm. Maybe you should use a hot glue gun on your face.

>> No.20777939

>>20777806
Wow
You are not only severely retarded but you also made no arguments

>> No.20777953

>>20776072
>>20775108
>>20777371
Begone christcucks/Capital-slave hylics/glowies
>>20777356
everyone knows about Sau- err Paul as the creator of cucktianity

>> No.20778007

>>20770027
Plato is refuted in being gay.

>> No.20778014

>>20770016

I don't know if this will be read because it's such a long thread, but civilization isn't mostly or mainly about philosophy and metaphysics.
Many aspects of western civilization, you have internalized them so much, you don't realize they come from Christianity.

The Christian west forbid sodomy, homosexuality and pederasty, Classical Greece and the Hellenistic east were fine with that.
The Christian west also forced westerners on a very extreme path with regards to family relations, it forbid polygamy (even if polygamy is elite behaviour, nations in which rulers have harems had very different political histories), it also forbid cousin marriage (this is very unusual, Muslims ideally marry their cousins, the daughter of their uncle, Jews are fine with cousin marriage, even niece marriage, and Hindus marry within their caste to a relative) this very arbitrary prohibition of the Catholic Church radically shaped western civilization, Cousin marriage was obviously perfectly acceptable in the ancient mediterranean, and among Greeks of Alexandria even brother sister marriages were very common
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2804054

forbidding cousin marriage was an attack on the extended family, tribes/clans, a society without clans or extended families, needs stronger, independent institutions, because people are on their own and can't rely on their network of relatives to solve their problems. There are exceptions, like Sicily and their Mafia, but Sicily is exceptional because they were under eastern Greek and Muslim rule for centuries, they were less exposed to traditional western family planning.
The catholic prohibition of divorce was also very radical, most other humans on the planet could repudiate their wives. Westerners couldn't (The king of England had to go into Schism to be able to do it)

So, seeing Christianity as irrelevant in the shaping of western european civilization is a very silly reductionism. And I only mentioned one aspect of that change. There are more.

>> No.20778018

>>20770070
Plato was likely reactionary to the Sophists themselves, his uncle having been Critias who was essentially Greek Hitler. I wish I knew more of actual sophists teachings but people like Critias were so reviled that their writings have almost disappeared entirely.

>> No.20778034

>>20778014
You misunderstand how Greeks were fine with homosexuality. Being the receiver in Athens meant you could not speak in forum or hold leadership positions. The Hellenistic societies celebrated masculinity and domination. A weak effeminate man was still highly ostracized in their society. Most of us would be. Bottoms and transexuals were mostly in positions of subservience but occasionally given oracular positions.

>> No.20778063

>>20778034
Bottoms would simply usually grow up to be tops in Ancient Greece. Hence pederasty and the mentorship aspect of it. It was a weird social system for sure, but it wasn't incoherent with their values
>>20778014
>civilization isn't mostly or mainly about philosophy and metaphysics.
retroactively refuted by Hegel (PBUH) and in fact Plato (PBUH) before him

>> No.20778070

>>20778018
Sophists were reviled by philosophers but not by the population. Much in the same way how capitalism is reviled by philosophers but not by the population. Food for thought.
Also:
"sophist" - a fee-taking "wise-r"
philosopher - someone who loves wisdom and takes no money for it

the ultimate redpill:
sophism is the "philosophy" of the Capital

>> No.20778079

>>20778034

that's irrelevant, it was completely socially unacceptable once christianity took power

Christianity was very different from the Greco Roman world in other aspects too. Greek philosophers were mostly interested in the differences between men, like Plato's theory of the soul, Christianity on the other hand was more interested in the equality of men.

>> No.20778084

>>20778079
>Christianity was very different from the Greco Roman world in other aspects too.
Christianity is Hellenized Judaism. Treat it as that and nothing more.

>> No.20778115

>>20778079
In Athens it was punishable by death to butttfuck a free man's son. Then, if a free man's son was buttfucked he could never hold office. The way pederasty worked for Greek aristocracy was more like the creten thigh fucking ritual. It was understood that being penetrated was not for powerful men, especially since in the ancient world an anal fissure was lethal. Christianity was not an original sin that made homosexuality taboo. It is always expressed in a taboo way, and even in our near future, if you eliminated all abrahamic faiths like Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, the world would still have a taboo essence to that. The Germanics themselves had no Christianity and put homosexuals to death and even had to duel to the death if it was implied they were homosexual.

>> No.20778372

>>20770063
>cant tell if bait or aspergers
>shit thread OP
That's precisely what makes it a great thread.

>> No.20778386

>>20778372
it's neither shit, nor bait, nor do I have aspergers. I only have 3 enemies and that other poster is one or some or all of the 3:
>christcuck (useful idiot of the Capital)
>Capital-slave hylic (useful idiot of the Capital)
>agent of the forces of the Capital (a CIA/Five Eyes+ agent)

>> No.20778494

>>20772462
reading ligotti as philosophy instead of entertainment LMAO

>> No.20778504

>>20778386
the CIA has absolutely zero (0) interest in you or anything you have ever said or done, the longer you even contemplate that idea the more schizophrenic you will become

>> No.20778518

>>20778084

I was going to ask if you have to be a retarded reductionist at everything, but then I saw you are a Hegelian tripfag

>> No.20778601

>>20778504
Nice try glownigger

>> No.20778610

>>20778504
>the CIA has absolutely zero (0) interest in you or anything you have ever said or done
The CIA, idealistically, would have 0 interest in me because I am not against the U.S. natl. interest

The CIA, however, is as corrupt as the U.S. govt. is, and is currently steered by the Capital.

I am not saying the CIA might want me silenced idealistically. I am saying the Capital might want me silenced. The same thing that happened to MLK or a few other men who were just too good for this world.

>> No.20778617

>>20778518
Name 1 original idea proposed by Christianity that isn't legitimacy-cope.

>> No.20779788

>>20778617
this is true.

>> No.20779805

>>20777939
>you also made no arguments
Again, this is why we need lie detectors. If a person is in the wrong (you), they sometimes exhibit a tactic of taking valid critique against them (you're not making a case, you're not making an argument) and parroting it aloud as if it applies to other people.

>>except we aren't talking about religion we're talking about platonism
1) almost the whole thread related to religion
2) i was simply yes, it is valid to look at the connection of plato to later yahwehism.

>>20773632
>>God, the uncaused causer, is the primal symptom caused by the disease of thinking platonically.

>> No.20779809

simply *saying yes

>> No.20779821

>>20778014
Just out of interest has anybody figured out where monogamy came from in the West?

It's not advocated in the bauble, it wasn't practiced by the OT prophets (jesus as celibate or we'd have examples of many wives i'm sure), it wasn't practiced by the Romans before christianity (concubines, etc.) or seemingly any of the barbarians anywhere else.

>> No.20779833

>>20778070
>"sophist" - a fee-taking "wise-r"
>philosopher - someone who loves wisdom and takes no money for it
This is not correct.

I try to avoid using the word 'sophistry' when I'm talking false-speech, false-rhetoric, deceptive fallacy, etc. But there's no real difference between this example of a philosopher and this example of a sophist; maybe rhetorician is more applicable to a sophist, but then it's hard to qualify philosophy as a something difference philo sophos (love of sophisty) with regular sophos (sophistry), you know?

Or higher sophistry, for that matter, as hagia sophia.

>> No.20779843

>>20777953
>everyone knows about Sau- err Paul as the creator of cucktianity
Everybody except the crustaceans apparently. If I was a christian and someone told me these things I'd be concerned because I'd want to know what God actually wanted; when a christian learns ad doe not care about Pauls
140 contradictions of Jesus it proves that they don't really believe in God at all.

>> No.20779883

>>20772267
Oh I missed this reply the other day,

> But who cares what they think?
> causing the unlearned to go on about Socrates instead of Plato

They'e like a trinity though, to the later Christian, this is how they consider the thing and the names of these two people especially have given themselves ... as if it were like "to be reasonable, to inquire about a thing, to engage in civil conversation" is tied to Plato and Socrates - which is insane.

The terms, quite in error, are:

Socratic Method : when a person asks questions, when a speaker asks questions to prompt a response

Platonic (Platonically*) : for men to discuss things

Now these are 'late late' Christian ideas or conflations of those men but they do show us where the error is on their part and why they refuse to admit that better and wiser men existed other than Plato, Socrates, Aristotle.

It's almost like a point of ethos (regional local opinion; culture) in the west to bring up these names; name-dropping to sound intelligent.

>but who cares
A doctor.

>All of the ancients went around praising ‘Divine Plato’
Did they though? I mean, from a Roman perspective interested in law, jurisprudence, practical rhetoric and extrapolative and predictive logic, one finds actually nothing in the works of Plato on these subjects at all. Very little anyway; one could read his dialogue 'plays' and get to jurisprudence or rhetoric third hand, but more focused works existed, and one could use the bible in that same manner (e.g. we have different conflicting accounts, let's add up what is constant throughout them all and throw away what isn't, and you're left with a basic account of events).

>> No.20781187

bumpums

>> No.20782752

>>20781187
bump

>> No.20784090

>>20782752
the bumpisters send their regards

>> No.20784124

>tripfag
opinion refuted

>> No.20784756

>Nietzsche
refuted by Girard

>> No.20784773

>>20770042
>I'm 20 and read Nietzsche years ago and have enormously progressed intellectually since, far more than you have, believe me.
Yet you still listen to The Doors.

>> No.20785910

oh well OP obviously isn't coming back lol, no more courtesy bumps. Shame I wanted a reply for this: >>20779883

wait does this count as a bump? damn. it'll be the last.

>> No.20786537

>>20770016
Solid opinion. And romaticism wasnt nihilistic but only reaction against mechanistic retarded Enlightenment! Wtf i dont like Nietzsche anymore....

>>
Delete posts
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action