/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20763323]

What's the most based heresy, and why is it Modalism?

[Anonymous No.20763339]

>>20763323
Arianism

[Anonymous No.20763349]

>>20763323
Hell is not worth the (you)s

[Anonymous No.20763355]

Explain to me how this shit is any different from one of those gender/orientation infographics.
Jesus fucking Christ. Sometimes he's man, sometimes he's God, sometimes he's the a cracker that tastes like cardboard? Contradictions are not inspirational. At least Buddhists know they're full it.

[Anonymous No.20763364]

>>20763355
You are not worthy to utter His name. Repent before you waste His mercy.

[Anonymous No.20763391]

>>20763364
Repent for what? Not acting like any of this shit makes sense, or making fun of the paper crackers?
I'm sorry that I'm a little skeptical of another mortal's bullshit venn diagram trying to reconcile an impossible book with reality. Please forgive my impudence towards your autistic messenger, oh transforming space jew.>>20763364

[Anonymous No.20763404]

>>20763391
Life is not a game. You are not a character. Ideas have consequences. Why do you trust yourself to understand on your own? There is nothing that you know that you have not learned from someone else. Why do you trust who you trust?

[Anonymous No.20763421]

>>20763404
>just trust me, goy

[Anonymous No.20763431]

>>20763421
Trust God, and no one else,least for all yourself.

[Anonymous No.20763433]

Cathars

[Anonymous No.20763438]

>>20763431
You can't do anything of value without knowing and trusting yourself. That much I'm certain of.

[Anonymous No.20763443]

Uhh, how does the Catholic church explain the crusades against the Utraquists these days...

[Anonymous No.20763449]

>>20763443
Tbh they should just have an open house at Vatican. Priest molested you? Come in and get a bracelet. We'll give you a Michaelangelo painting.

[Anonymous No.20763458]

>>20763323
What's so based about it?

[Anonymous No.20763466]

>>20763355
You fear what you do not understand. Pick up a basic Christology book (make sure it's not protestant) and eucharistic theology book before chatting about things you have a less than surface level knowledge of.

[Anonymous No.20763472]

>>20763466
>make sure it's not protestant
>only we paganized pedo apologists are authorities on divinity
Weird flex but ok.

[Anonymous No.20763505]

>>20763472
Yes, it's the church Christ built, see mathew 16:18-20

Also, protestants tend to be very novel in how they articulate things and end up resurfacing old heresies due to their disconnection to tradition. They'll write 1 million books on the trinity and come up with convolutaed explanations and new categories and stuff that don't actually solve anything but rather worsen the issue and then the next year there is a new release of academic articles answering this or that esoteric and minute aspect of trinitarian theology and as they go along they fall deeper and deeper into heresy.

Catholic sources are always backed up with centuries of theologians who they stand on the shoulders of and build up from. Because of this their theology is usually more robust and well thought out and answer the pressing questions without inventing new controversies that only complicate the matter more like prods do.

[Anonymous No.20763515]

>>20763505
>it's the church christ built
He put the naked pagan artwork on the fucking ceiling too, right?
I think if your lot gave a shit about
>muh immortal soul
The last two popes would have been lynched purely on principle.

[Anonymous No.20763527]

>>20763438
If you knew yourself, you wouldn't trust yourself.

[Anonymous No.20763539]

>>20763443
The Utraquists eventually reunited with the Church. The error was on insisting that there was a dogmatic right for the laity to receive both species.

[Anonymous No.20763543]

>>20763527
Oh that's just not true. Just because I'm scum doesn't mean I can't be trusted.

[Anonymous No.20763559]

>>20763339
This, G*rms unite

[Anonymous No.20763640]

>>20763323
'Sometimes' might just be the stupidest word you can use in describing God. How retarded do you have to be to fall for this?

[Anonymous No.20763769]

>>20763515
Imagine having an IQ this low.

[Anonymous No.20763781]

>>20763769
>ur dumb
Typical.
Almost as typical as a priest fucking little boys.

[Anonymous No.20763782]

>>20763443
Didn't the previous pope apologize for all the crusades ever?

[Anonymous No.20763783]

>>20763539
>reunited
That's a very tame way of putting it.

[Anonymous No.20763787]

>>20763458
The three modes we conceive of are all constructs limited by human flaws but they all represent and point to God.

[Anonymous No.20763789]

>>20763443
Tbh a lot of them were total degens.
t. Czech

[Anonymous No.20763794]

>>20763782
Good thing he apologized for trying to expel Muslims from the holy land before he apologized for the nonces he's harboring right fucking now.
Something Something speck in your neighbors eye.

[Anonymous No.20763965]

>>20763339
It's kind of ripe for a comeback. Shame about the 2 millennia of idolatry tho

[Anonymous No.20764016]

>>20763640
How is
>God manifests Himself in different forms
worse than
>The Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all fully God, coequal, coeternal, CONSUBSTANTIAL, but despite all being God (fully), they are NOT eachother

The trinity is seriously the craziest bending over backwards to justify idolatry I have ever seen - "it's OK to worship a man because he's actually fully God, see? But even though he is fully God, he's NOT the Father. The Father is also fully God - but they're not the same. I can draw a diagram that violates the basic laws of logic to prove it, see? If you question me you'll be excommunicated or burned lol"

Modalism at least lets you keep Jesus Divine in a form that makes logical sense

[Anonymous No.20764044]

>>20764016
The point of it it's absurd, and that's where Kierkegaard comes, not to justify any dogma, but to show you there are limits in your conceptual thought and that you should focus instead in living through faith.

[Anonymous No.20764049]

>>20764044
Kierkegaard addresses it but the Tertullian was the first to elucidate on it. Unfortunately he spoke the truth and that's why the cathohomos don't consider him a church doctor.

[Anonymous No.20764062]

The Trinity was the "assigned male at birth, born in the wrong body" of its time. Neo-Kierkegaard would tell you "touch the grass, accept that women have cocks and have a normal one bro".

[Anonymous No.20764135]

The history of the councils and all that make the trinity as it became strictly defined very obviously political. The focus on unity and preserving the authority of the east through whatever means shines through, as in maybe Arius wasn't that wrong but the schisms he could represent could have been devastating. West Europe were basically Arians before Arius. The church in Britain grew independently of the pope or the east.

[Anonymous No.20764162]

>>20763364
>>20763466
stop larping as a christian fundamentalist on an anime imageboard for disenfranchised losers

[Anonymous No.20764182]

>>20763355
It's actually really simple. The father, the son and the holy spirit are three different ways of perceiving the same being.

The father is God in heaven. The son is the human body he puppeteered two thousand years ago. The holy spirit is God's invisible hand with which he interacts with us today.

If you have access to a game console and two controllers, you too can experience being a trinity. Boot up super smash brothers and give yourself control of two virtual bodies: in this metaphor, that's the son and the holy spirit. The body you use to control the others represents the father.

[Anonymous No.20764240]

There is no God but God and Muhammad is his messenger.

[Anonymous No.20764246]

There is no God but the True Father and His name is not Yahweh

[Anonymous No.20764765]

>>20763339
is Arianism a form of christian buddhism? where the status of messiah isn't inherit but invested thanks to virtue? just as buddha isn't an avatar of a god but create is owm enlightment by his own effort

[Anonymous No.20764771]

>>20763323
Docetism

[Anonymous No.20764775]

>>20763323
>What's the most based heresy
All of them

[Anonymous No.20765363]

>>20763443
>Mistakes were made

[Anonymous No.20765550]

>>20764765
No, they recognized Christ as the divine son of God, they just didn't recognize Christ as also being fully God. After all, how could it not be idolatry to worship one of God's creations (even his most perfect creation, Christ himself) on the same level as God Himself?

[Anonymous No.20765608]

>>20763323
Palamas/hesychasm might be heretical and mad, it's also was insanely based. They perfected tulpas.

[Anonymous No.20765777]

>>20764162
A dog barks when its owner is attacked. How can I not scream when my Lord is defamed?

[Anonymous No.20766127]

Redpill me on Trinitarianism. Trinitarians believe the father, the son and the holy spirit each have their own consciousness but still count as one god because they share the same nature. But what does nature mean? Are we looking at a three-headed person situation, a hivemind situation or are they three distinct individuals who share the same "species"?

[Anonymous No.20766131]

>>20763349
spbp

[Anonymous No.20766149]

>>20765777
this doo a dawlg lmao

[Anonymous No.20766178]

>>20766127
Every option you listed is a heresy. The bedrock Trinitarian teachings are

God is three persons
Each person is fully God
There is only one God
The three persons are not each other

To consider Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit as a three headed God is Modalism (God manifests in three different modes, the different heads or faces of God - thus each individual head is not fully God), to consider God as a hivemind is Unitarianism (since it claims that Christ, the Father, and the Holy spirit are all One, not Three), to consider them as three distinct individuals with the same species is Tritheism.

The reason you cannot make sense of the Trinity is because the Trinity makes no fucking sense, literally every heresy is better than Trinitarianism. The best argument for the Trinity (provided by >>20764044) is literally "don't think about it."

Unfortunately all the sensible teachings were snubbed out in the early days of the church, so we must march forward blindly repeating nakedly nonsensical catechisms under threat of excommunication

[Anonymous No.20766212]

>>20766178
>Unfortunately all the sensible teachings were snubbed out in the early days of the church

Actually kind of interested in why this was the case. If the trinity is so absurd how did it end up being the official line?

[Anonymous No.20766328]

>>20766212
There are two millennia of writings on the subject. You're direct interests are the Council of Nicaea in particular, and the Council of Constantinople (for the full enunciation of the doctrine). There are endless scholarly and popular sources on those two councils if you want to read more and see if you are convinced.

If you want my opinion it goes basically like this - the Gnostic teachings were so radically jeopardizing to all of the disparate teachings of the early Church, they literally invented to the concept of Heresy just to stamp it out. Across the following centuries, the Divinity of Christ was the binding of the Church, a shared point of agreement around which Bishops could congregate to discuss and refine the creed. Any teaching which threatened the Divinity of Christ, or lowered he status of Christ beneath that of the Father, threatened the unity of the Church and would immediately cause schism and ultimately collapse - so, when sensible doctrines were proposed (Arianism), they had to be denounced as blasphemous. By the time the full doctrine of the trinity was roughly enunciated at the Council of Constantinople, the doctrine had already become a bit batty because of (futile) attempts to make sense of Christ's coeternity and consubstanciality with the Father, so throwing in the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son was a literal no-brainer

[Anonymous No.20766460]

>>20763543
Examine your life. How many times a day do you lie? If a server accidentally gave you too small a check, would you tell them? With all the time that you have, how do you spend it? Are you worthy of trust? Should I trust that you have my best interests at heart? If I should not trust you, why should you trust you? If you were an honest man, would you do all that you do?

[Anonymous No.20766466]

>>20766328
>My opinion
How worthless

[Anonymous No.20766472]

>>20764162
Men have been executed for heresy, and it was the right thing to do.

[Anonymous No.20767599]

>>20766328
What's your opinion on the Logos in John, and the clearly distinct Holy Spirit in all Gospels?

[Anonymous No.20767608]

>>20763364
Fucking cringe. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.20767832]

>>20767608
How do you take yourself seriously? I say blasphemers are worthy of death. You say it is the socially embarrassing. Disgusting effeminacy.

[Anonymous No.20767877]

>>20764182
John 17:3
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

The Father is not the Son. God is not like an Xbox.

[Anonymous No.20767893]

y'all posting in a parkus thread

[Anonymous No.20767923]

>>20764182
very wrong

[Anonymous No.20767929]

>>20763339
>>20763559
>>20763965
We really dont know everything they actually believed as at some point in the roman empire. they got btfo at all the different councils. Then after that most of their writings were destroyed and anyone with them got killed. As per orders of the emperor. We would be larping if anyone brought it back. With out finding some kind of ancient scroll or some more knowledge. I mean yes we know that what you just said. that jesus is gods son but not god himself also but beyond that we know little

[Anonymous No.20767934]

>>20766460
>If a server accidentally gave you too small a check, would you tell them?
Normally they get huffy if you do that. Most people get huffy if you tell them they're wrong. I wouldn't call it lying if someone doesn't have the patience to deal with other peoples' mistakes.
Most people just want to do their job and go home. They couldn't give less of a fuck, and I get that. What I don't get is why you attribute some grand moral wrong to simply being human. You should get some help. You're ridiculously neurotic.

[Anonymous No.20767941]

>>20766328
The problem with gnosticism is it makes of God a failed craftsman — it is philosophically untenable. For the gnostics, matter will be unredeemed (i.e., it was a mistake). Impossible.

That's why the councils formed, because the wages of gnosticism is death, unlike the edifying mysteries of orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.20768004]

>>20766178
Modalism is the only thing that makes sense.

For there to be one god, the three persons must be each other in some way. In >>20764182's theory, each person is fully god because God refers to the consciousness animating the different forms.

[Anonymous No.20768020]

>>20768004
Augustine uses this analogy: a perfect, omnipotent mind imagines itself. That mind would be its perfect Image — sharing of the essence of the original mind while also being distinct in relation.

[Anonymous No.20768097]

>>20768020
So basically God cloned his mind and because God's judgment is perfect all the clones agree with each other? I guess that makes sense. There's no point in calling them different gods if they all think the same thing.

[Anonymous No.20768146]

>>20763323
Binitarianism because its close to Gnosticism

[Anonymous No.20768332]

>>20767832
You blaspheme common sense, faggot.

[Anonymous No.20768337]

>>20763349
>Hell is not worth the (you)s

An aphorism worthy of Dávila.

[Anonymous No.20768338]

>>20763323
Any teaching that does not acknowledge God as three distinct Persons is unbiblical.

[Anonymous No.20768377]

>>20767877
I always assumed god was talking to himself to show plebs how to pray.

[Anonymous No.20768426]

>>20767934
You can't lie habitually and call yourself an honest person. If you say it is human, I agree. Every man is a liar. Hence, trust God and no one else.

[Anonymous No.20768468]

>>20768377
Why do you think you know how to pray?

[Anonymous No.20768800]

>>20767941
There's no reason that matter shouldn't be a mistake. It can even be good, and still be a mistake.

[Anonymous No.20768965]

the Trinity is the most well documented interpretive heresy of the Bible
there is no scripture that canonizes it, only statements by the catholics that this is THE truth (as they interpreted it)

read the Bible, make your own conclusion, there's only one source on canon and everything else is editorial commentary
not in the Bible, not relevant to Biblical discussion, simple as.

[Anonymous No.20769015]

>>20768965
Seething trinitarians even interpolated the Johannine Comma into the Vulgate to convince people of their dumb, logically contradictory theory.

[Anonymous No.20769759]

>>20768965
>>20769015
The Trinity is the most well documented dogma of the Church and its central part. It is the main revelation of Christianity relating to God, and not merely relating to the salvation of men, although it was revealed as necessary for it considering the satisfaction of Christ sacrifice involves the Trinity. This dogma is linked to all others and cannot be removed without retrograding the remnant "Christianity" into a vaguely messianic Judaism.
It reveals that God is love not in any sentimental glorification but as a view within His own life.
You have to rape the words of the bible by such a wild margin to deviate from it. It leaves very little room for interpretation, and only in the philosophical language to use to express it, which has been the main controversy in the Church.
It is attested from the earliest times, and every single anti-trinitarian heresy was denied by prescription, among other things.
>here's only one source on canon
To even talk of a canon is to accept the Church which alone can make a canon, otherwise there are a collection of texts without particular authority except the one every reader wants to give to it. I suspect you even deny the canon to prefer some Rabbinical pick excluding the Siracide and the Wisdom which makes sense in your case since those two books already feature the first glimpses into the doctrines of the hypostases.

[Anonymous No.20769784]

>>20763323
The Trinity.

[Anonymous No.20769786]

>>20763466
>Pick up a basic Christology book
If you can't explain it yourself you don't understand it
>wow honey educate yourself?
You're no different than a blue-haired leftist.

[Anonymous No.20769791]

>>20763323
Is this really worth arguing over? How does it hamper your faith in Jesus or love of God how you think the Trinity works?

[Anonymous No.20769798]

>>20769759
>The Trinity is the most well documented dogma of the Church
Repeating a heresy over and over doesn't make it true.

[Anonymous No.20769803]

>>20769791
If you get it wrong you're going to the Lake of Fire.

[Anonymous No.20769808]

Manichaeism is interesting on an aesthetic/atmospheric level even though it's still a dumb heresy.

I'm not one to cheer on heresy, but we don't have enough weird batshit heresies to make shit interesting these days; the closest we have is Mormonism and Unitarian Universalists.

[Anonymous No.20769810]

>>20763323
FTFY

[Anonymous No.20769815]

>>20769759
>To even talk of a canon is to accept the Church which alone can make a canon, otherwise there are a collection of texts without particular authority except the one every reader wants to give to it. I suspect you even deny the canon to prefer some Rabbinical pick excluding the Siracide and the Wisdom which makes sense in your case since those two books already feature the first glimpses into the doctrines of the hypostases.
didn't read, the bible is the only piece of canon, simple as

make up a new word to justify your heresy if me using it angers you

[Anonymous No.20769816]

>>20769791
Christians like to invent names for heresies and have killed people over them, meanwhile Calvin taught millions of people to worship some devil-god and set up a theocracy.

[Anonymous No.20769817]

>>20769803
I've read the NT and it doesn't say anything like that. As long as you believe in Jesus you're fine and the exact metaphysics of the Trinity can't change it.

[Anonymous No.20769819]

>>20769815
>the bible is the only piece of canon
No it isn't.
It was literally compiled by bishops of the early church, from books floating around at the time among church practice
It wasn't found intact in a cave.

[Anonymous No.20769820]

>>20769817
The NT is just a helpful addition to Christian practice. There was Christianity before the NT. Christian tradition is uppermost and confirms that if you deviate from dogma you are damned.

[Anonymous No.20769823]

>>20769816
YHWH is already a volcano demon, an aspect of Saturn. That old ne'er-do-well is up to his old tricks again.

[Anonymous No.20769833]

>>20769820
>There was Christianity before the NT
Which you have no means of knowing outside of the Gospels.

[Anonymous No.20769840]

>>20769833
The ongoing unbroken tradition of the Church, handed down from bishop to bishop, is our guide.

[Anonymous No.20769929]

>>20769819
I dont recognize revelations so you're right
but that is a statement that less is canon, not more, which I'm fine with

[Anonymous No.20770297]

>>20769840
While tradition is a sure guide, and the bible unnecessary in the strict sense (few Christians even read the bible in the first two centuries), it's also disingenuous to present it as just a helpful addition. It is infaillible in doctrine and is the oldest proven tradition, upon which further arguments are based. Obviously it must not be "creatively" interpreted against definitions, and some logical inferences might be needed as opposed to just spouting verses. In practice it doesn't matter much since everything of dogmatic level is related to biblical content.

>>20769929
>I get to pick what is authoritative to me
At this point just make your own stuff up.
>less is canon, not more, which I'm fine with
t. Marcion

[Anonymous No.20770302]

>>20769840
Lake 'o Fire for you, lad.

[Anonymous No.20770341]

>>20769808
There are dozens of nu-protestant clubs sprawling all over. Your typical amerimutt "full gospel" congregation fits the bill, even worse with the bizarre Asian spin offs. They're just very lame.

[Anonymous No.20770421]

>>20768800
God cannot, logically, make mistakes.

[A Pneumatic !zHiZwFUpHY No.20770472]

>>20763349
Heretics don't go to hell if they're just trying to follow the Truth and good ethics

[Anonymous No.20770910]

>>20770472
> Heretics don't go to hell
“ idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions (αἱρέσεις - HERESIES), envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

[Anonymous No.20771772]

>>20768020
Except all parts of the Trinity are eternal. They could be "cut of the same cloth" and agree with each other at all times, but that just sounds like hivemind tritheism.

[Anonymous No.20771798]

>>20763349
>doing things out of fear of going to hell
literally liable to give you a one-way ticket straight to hell, retard

[Anonymous No.20773503]

>>20768965
Mark 1:9-11 (WEB)
>In those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
>Immediately coming up from the water, he saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
>A voice came out of the sky, “You are my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
How do you interpret this?
There are clearly three distinct persons in this interaction.
The Son comes up out of the water, the Spirit descends from Heaven to the Son, and the Father in Heaven speaking to the Son.
This is in all three synoptics (Matt. 3:16-17, Luke 3:21-22), and the Gospel of John has pretty clear indications of the Trinity as well.
What do you make of that?
If you meant that the relationships within the Trinity as espoused by Catholics is simply interpretation, that I can understand you coming to from a Sola Scriptura view, but to say the Trinity isn't there at all is simply nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20773999]

>>20773503
A puppetmaster and his two puppets can interact with each other even though they share the same consciousness.

[Anonymous No.20774732]

>>20763339
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.20774936]

>>20769759
>This dogma is linked to all others and cannot be removed without retrograding the remnant "Christianity" into a vaguely messianic Judaism.
wouldnt that be crazy

[Anonymous No.20774979]

>>20773999
Now who's committing interpretive heresy?

[Anonymous No.20775419]

>>20763323
more like homodalism

[Anonymous No.20775494]

>>20771772
>parts
Trinity has no parts

[Anonymous No.20775769]

>>20773999
>Jesus and the Holy Spirit are puppets
Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is the single unpardonable sin.

[Anonymous No.20776968]

>>20775769
>blasphemy is when you use an analogy i don't agree with
yawn

[Anonymous No.20776990]

>>20776968
You will burn in hell schlomo. Blaspheny rolls off your tongue because you have no beliefmin the afterlife.

[Anonymous No.20777076]

>>20765777
You are not some holy warrior of God. You are a random young man who spends his time on an anime and meme image-board. You probably have bipolar. Your religion is not special, you would not even give a fuck who and what Jesus Christ is if you were born in one of the 80% of households on earth which are not christian. Sorry, but it's true.