/sffg/ - Science Fiction and Fantasy General

[Anonymous No.20754162]

Slum Market Edition

Previous Thread:>>20748721

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS

>Archive
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

[Anonymous No.20754176]

Northwestern European fantasy has Tolkien.
Wuxia/xianxia is purely Chinese, which covers Hong Kong/Taiwanese that wrote a lot of it too.
I've been told that Witcher has a lot of Slavic features to it.
What do other cultures have?

[Anonymous No.20754177]

read cradle!

[Anonymous No.20754188]

>>20754176
The Witcher?

[Anonymous No.20754206]

>>20754188
Yes, the Sapkowski books. Despite people claiming he ripped off Moorcock, they still say he added a folksy Slavic sense to his stories.
Also people argue magical realism for Latin America. It's more of a literary style than genre, but Asturias is heavily influenced by Mayan mythology and surrealism so I haven't read him to really comment on it. I don't expect anything like RI or Tolkien, it's a political critique on authoritarianism affecting people's reality more than fantasy.

[Anonymous No.20754216]

>>20754206
A lot of Japanese lit is magical realism and/or surrealism

[Anonymous No.20754286]

Read Bakker.

[Anonymous No.20754296]

>>20754286
Bakker? I don't even knower!

[Anonymous No.20754300]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PE5iEq3peE
The fat man tested positive, press F to pay respects

[Anonymous No.20754308]

>>20754300
What the fuck is that hat

[Anonymous No.20754318]

>>20754300
he looks thinner than usual

[Anonymous No.20754319]

>>20754180
>Does he have an end in sight though? Are there already characters who have come and gone and have conclusions? I worry also because of either what you or another anon said about the timeline, which was apparently everything happens in an instant.

That anon was trolling. I'm not sure what 'in an instant' would even mean. It's been years in-story, at least two. But I imagine the time will speed up a little now, considering the recent plot developments. The author has multiple time stated that they have an end in sight, since the very start of the story. 'Their guiding beacon,' as they said.
If you want in-depth write-up on how the author's writing the story, just check this reddit post the author did: https://www.reddit.com/r/WanderingInn/comments/hfy9my/writing_web_serials_by_pirateaba/

>Are there already characters who have come and gone and have conclusions?
Of course, how could be any different in any story? Characters and their stories are TWI's biggest strength, some came and went, some are still there. This isn't some never-ending story with random events cobbled together.

>Take Malazan for example, the crippled god is introduced in the first book and the final book is the conclusion of events that have driven the story along. There's still a lot of questions about characters, but it's an ending.
>With the god is not willing which is basically Erikson's sequel to Malazan, set 10 years ahead, it's full of new characters whose plot is driven from events in the original series but it is its own thing. Sure some more characters will probably show up, but many won't. In Erikson's ama the other day he said that tavore probably won't be back even tho she's his favourite character. Her story was finished, we don't need to see her Talon Dental Plan or whether she's taken over her families trading company.

TWI has a lot of plots, kinda layered together. There's main plot that's been being set-up for multiple volumes, but it was always there, since the start, if you want to know, the story's is mainly about: Dead Gods returning back to life after being 'dead' for a very, very long time. An eon. And the characters trying to, more or less, kill them back.

It's an Epic Fantasy story, events larger than life, you know, the whole package. But the author is building-up the characters and world in which they can have that plot, step by step. There are characters that are mighty and powerful, but most of them are only starting, the story is about the people that one day are going to BE the kind of people that you can see having influence and power to take parts in the story of this calibre. Their entire journey, from their very beginnings, not just back-story of characters in few paragraphs. That's what TWI is about, in essence, stories of people that one day will become Legends.

[Anonymous No.20754353]

>>20754180
Malazan's ending was garbage. Anything about The Crippled God was barely explained beyond "he isn't from our world which is why he is harming it and has to leave" and Tavore was the definition of a plot device, not one fucking time explaining why she was taking the Malazans to save The Crippled God.
I HATE TAVORE

[Anonymous No.20754368]

>>20754353
Would you say Malzan was worth reading? I had two attempts to read it, but can't get hooked. That sharp change in setting after the first arc was very off-putting.

[Anonymous No.20754371]

>>20754300
>the living embodiment of 捡了芝麻丢了西瓜
S

[Anonymous No.20754375]

>>20754353
She did it because it was the right thing to do, he was quite literally a victim. The faggy mages on jakuruku isekai'd him into the world, then when he was damaged from it they controlled him, then other ascendants wanted to trap him more because he was becoming poisonous to k'ruls warrens. It was the Malazan thing to do. Time and time again the Malazan armies help the people who need it. It's a theme of the books and if you missed that idk what to tell you. Take coltaine for example, or how tavore refused to hand over the wickans. The fact that the bonehunters followed tavore and how the old bridgeburners defended him showed it was in the same spirit they have always kept throughout the books, doing the right thing.

[Anonymous No.20754389]

>>20754368
yes
you could try reading one of the other books first instead of gotm
knight of knives or dancer's lament

[Anonymous No.20754452]

>>20754353
>T.speedreader

[Anonymous No.20754456]

>>20754216
Surrealism.
It doesn't have the same kick if it's not from Latin America.

[Anonymous No.20754512]

>>20754162
FUCK he is good.

[Anonymous No.20754526]

>>20754512
are you the bakkerautist

[Anonymous No.20754527]

>>20754368
Many are segregated so you could read 'some' as a standalone. Either way, I thought the writing itself was fine enough although there are numerous infinite tangents. It's just the overall arching plot was a huge letdown
>>20754375
And if that would have been expressed, okay but you, quite literally, have multiple soldiers remarking that they don't know what the fuck Tavore is doing or why they went where they went.

[Anonymous No.20754534]

So why did the CCP cancel this?

[Anonymous No.20754547]

[Anonymous No.20754557]

>>20754534
Cringe depletes your social credit

[Anonymous No.20754565]

>>20754534
Because the chapters they took issue with were incredibly blatant political propaganda.

[Anonymous No.20754586]

>>20754527
Yes, but once they knew they all understood and guarded him.

[Anonymous No.20754612]

Asimov is exceedingly tedious.

[Anonymous No.20754669]

>>20754177
read bakker

[Anonymous No.20754701]

>>20754188
Witcher is generic anglo-fantasy. The fact that some can't figure this this out shows how incestuously uninspired fantasy genre is for a good lot of people.

[Anonymous No.20754702]

>>20754162
Are there any good Magic the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons novels?

[Anonymous No.20754720]

Mr Reynolds and yet another one of his wild rides.

[Anonymous No.20754726]

>>20754720
I'm reading Revelation Space right now. It's got the autism I was looking for, but the writing (in terms of prose and pacing) ranges from bland to awful. Is it worth pushing through?

[Anonymous No.20754734]

>>20754720
Was it though? >>20454552 suggests differently.

[Anonymous No.20754738]

>>20754162
Last call for suggesting a theme for the Goodreads group for August before I pick one and its relevant books.

I looked at the uploads on the Charts Mega, which I really ought to do get around to updating. Probably sometime next month. Someone uploaded Attackbox-wordlists.tar.gz (1.04GB) and AMD.7z (1.25GB). I don't see how these are relevant and can't be bothered to download and look at them If someone here knows what they were uploaded, let me know. Otherwise I'll probably just delete them. I guess I need to put better instructions on what to upload.

[Anonymous No.20754753]

>>20754734
Maybe I should have put more disclaimers when I wrote that. I'm not a fan of Reynolds in general. The current /sffg/ ratings are:

5 star: 1
4 stars: 1
2 star: 2

The postings in the thread have been positive as well. Though, Reynolds overall seems to less well received and popular than one might otherwise think.

[Anonymous No.20754763]

>>20754702
I liked various ones when I was a teenager. They're mostly rather basic and generic, so it really depends on you personally.

[Anonymous No.20754788]

Whats the best fantasy to come out of Romance language countries?

>inb4 The Aeneid

[Anonymous No.20754836]

>>20754788
Orlando Furioso

[Anonymous No.20754842]

>>20754534
He alluded to the systematic harvesting of fetuses via abortion with the pregnancy temples.

[Anonymous No.20754861]

>>20754788
Le Morte d'Arthur

[Anonymous No.20754980]

>>20754534
Mocked the great leap forward.

[Anonymous No.20754983]

What's the best short story from I, Robot and why is ti Reason?

[Anonymous No.20755080]

>>20754300
>overweight
>old
>has covid
Someone tell Sanderson to get ready to finish another series

[Anonymous No.20755089]

>>20755080
Your apathy is only surpassed by your malice.

[Anonymous No.20755123]

>>20755080
Covid mortality rates are very low, even for fat people. It's just that they grab the attention bc the risk goes from extremely low to relatively low when you add obesity into the mix. Even the fat oldies have a very high chance of minimal negative effects, let alone risk of death.
If you think that GRRM is done for, then you've had too much cool aid.

[Anonymous No.20755124]

>>20755089
I have long since accepted that ASOIAF will never be finished, just let go and laugh at the world

[Anonymous No.20755140]

>>20755080
>Sanderson
That would be worse than if the series died with him.

[Anonymous No.20755154]

>>20755080
>>20755140
Bakker should do it.

[Anonymous No.20755169]

>>20755154
Please no, Bakker needs to work on No God

[Anonymous No.20755222]

>>20754720
cool. I am reading House of Suns right now, maybe only 100 pages but enjoying it overall. it feels very "big".. characters going from planet to planet.. dealing with posthumans and other human species and this and that..pretty neat.

[Anonymous No.20755243]

>protagonist risks his life or gets into a near death scenario
I hate this shit at this point. Any time it happens it just feels like the story is screaming "haha you're reading something disingenuous and I'm abusing plot armor".

[Anonymous No.20755274]

>>20755243
So, what's the alternative?

[Anonymous No.20755285]

Speaking of Sanderson, has anyone seen that thread on /r/fantasy about a gay guy saying he doesn't want him recommended all the time? It's hilarious how everyone started defending Sando, excusing his mormonism and anti-gay views because 'he's trying to be better.' Every other person would get cancelled hard, but Sando is writer of 'good' fantasy, so everyone are trating him with kids' gloves. Absolutely hilarious.

[Anonymous No.20755290]

>>20755154
Fuck no. Bakker’s talent would be a waste on that shit series.

[Anonymous No.20755292]

>>20755243
>I hate this shit at this point. Any time it happens it just feels like the story is screaming "haha you're reading something disingenuous and I'm abusing plot armor".
If you are not feeling any tension when character does something dangerous, then it's because the writer did a bad job or the scene has different meaning than you think. But most commonly it'd be writer being a hack.

[Anonymous No.20755322]

>>20755274
>>20755243
there are ways around this. i just recently found one case in twi.
basically, you don't make those kind of gambits with the protagonitsts or other plot armor characters, instead you use supporting or side characters. you can still have the MC be involved in the plot, even more if they care about said character.

another way is to not make it about death. make it about losing something more believable, with lower stakes. something that can be lost without forcing you to use plot armor.

[Anonymous No.20755355]

>>20754162
How common are novels set during or after zombie apocalypses?

[Anonymous No.20755361]

>>20754177
>>20754669

[Anonymous No.20755375]

>>20754527
That feeling when Malazan whooshes over your head. I feel sorry for you anon.

[Anonymous No.20755379]

>>20755285
because his shit is so inoffensive that even the most hyper sensitive woketards don't see anything wrong. Also stormlight is already filled with enough girl power and non whites with enough vagueness to imply weird sexual shit (like Jasnah being asexual) that they can project their shit on. Also Sandersoy makes an active effort to placate them and promise more pozzed shit.

[Anonymous No.20755391]

>>20754527
Anon, thing with Malazan is that everything doesn't lead to a single focal point of a conclusion. I'm amazed people don't get this ahead of time with so many sub-plots and characters throughout the series.

[Anonymous No.20755403]

>>20755274
A story that doesn't revolve around protagonist narrowly escaping death. I know, sounds novel to a genreshitter, but it's actually pretty common.

[Anonymous No.20755413]

>>20755391
>everything doesn't lead to a single focal point of a conclusion
It does when a several-book long plot line is ended in a finale literally titled "The Chained God".

[Anonymous No.20755449]

>>20755403
>>20755322
It's also a personal problem where you use too much metaknowledge and aren't immersed in the story. You're supposed to let voluntarily yourself be manipulated.

[Anonymous No.20755451]

>>20755322
>basically, you don't make those kind of gambits with the protagonitsts or other plot armor characters, instead you use supporting or side characters
AKA redshirting.

[Anonymous No.20755456]

>>20755449
>You're supposed to let voluntarily yourself be manipulated.
That's still using metaknowledge. The fundamental problem is surviving near death/high risk encounters is one of the biggest cliches in fiction period.

[Anonymous No.20755499]

>>20755451
>redshirting
ah, yes. very interesting...

on a serious note: it's not quite that. i'm not talking about just killing off side characters. i'm talking about putting them into those will-they-die situations because they COULD actually die, whether they actually do or not depends on where you want the dice to land. but as opposed to the MC who is usually protected by plot armor, here the reader won't be able to tell as easily. it's about suspense.

[Anonymous No.20755521]

>>20755456
ah yes. very interesting...
You must be the sort that'd d argue that everyone is a conformist because even when you don't conform you're conforming to not conforming.

[Anonymous No.20755523]

>>20755499
It works better, but that also quickly gets tiresome with overuse. Stuff like DotF is terrible about it, you know the protagonist is invincible both in the world and in the narrative so every single threat is about his sister or something being endangered instead.

[Anonymous No.20755525]

>>20755521
>just embrace the unoriginality and predictability, what are you a contrarian or something?

[Anonymous No.20755532]

>>20755523
This is why it's often better to instead have the question be "can they get through this", but moreso "how banged-up will they be when they get through this".

[Anonymous No.20755533]

>>20755403
How can a character be a hero when they don't narrowly escape death?

[Anonymous No.20755546]

>>20755525
It's more a fundamental problem of your lack of emotional investment and unwillingness to give yourself over to the story.

[Anonymous No.20755548]

>>20755533
What a narrow of view of heroism!

[Anonymous No.20755550]

>>20755532
And then in the next scene they're completely recovered.

[Anonymous No.20755551]

>>20755532
The issue in large part is abusing reactive scenarios. If you reverse the dynamic entirely to "can the antagonist survive this" then it becomes interesting again.

[Anonymous No.20755552]

>>20755523
i'd say at that point you have bigger issues. issues surrounding the protagonist and his invincible plot armor that can not only protect himself but all of his interests as well..

[Anonymous No.20755561]

>>20755550
Well, no, give them lasting injuries or scars, or even emotional/mental problems.

[Anonymous No.20755563]

>>20755548
That you have nothing to say about, because I'm right.
It's a simple calculus, if a fantasy hero isn't in danger of dying then it's not interesting enough. If they died every time their life was in danger, there would be no story.

[Anonymous No.20755569]

>>20755563
On the contrary, there are stories where the protagonist dies every time they're in danger. That usually involves time loops and other mitigating factors though.

[Anonymous No.20755573]

>>20755561
No one wants to read about them. Strong characters only that serve as perfect role models.

[Anonymous No.20755574]

>>20755569
>ah, but you see, abortion is morally good because sometimes the woman has been raped!

[Anonymous No.20755580]

>>20755574
Abortion is always morally good, there's too many people causing too many problems and not enough love to go around

[Anonymous No.20755583]

Lovecraft’s poetry is underrated. His ear for accents is pretty good too.

[Anonymous No.20755590]

>>20755574
>ah, but you see, shitposting is acceptable because sometimes the poster gets (you)s!

[Anonymous No.20755596]

I read this pretty recently. Its a nice bit of light reading, an interesting little adventure.
I don't particularly care for how he's obviously setting it up to be a series of books, though.
I used to see this guy at the Renaissance festival every now and then. His act can be pretty funny. Some of his horror books are pretty good too.

[Anonymous No.20755629]

>>20755596
Standalones are rare. The expectation should be that it will be multiple books.

[Anonymous No.20755700]

Why do you consider sci-fi and fantasy to be the superior genres of literature?

[Anonymous No.20755707]

>>20754861
"My lord, I saw nothing but waves and wind."

[Anonymous No.20755717]

>>20755700
I see the bot has return

[Anonymous No.20755726]

>>20755700
checked. and I don't. at least with sci-fi though, I like all of the thought experiments that can play out.

>what if we just went to Mars
>what if we uploaded our minds into a computer
>what if the Moon just exploded one day and was gonna rain down on Earth
>what if undercover cops were able to completely changed their outward appearance
>what if we tried to increase the IQ of a mentally challenged person

[Anonymous No.20755735]

>>20755717
I don’t think it’s a bot, but an actual person that has no life that just keeps on repeating the same questions every thread for some unknown reason.

[Anonymous No.20755742]

>Primordial Origin Venerable
>doesn’t finish the job
>Heavenly Court he started becomes an a group of overbearing self-righteous jackasses
>his own disciple ended up falling in love with a demihuman

Was he really trying to make humanity the dominating race over the Gu world or was his goal similar to what became the Heavenly Court’s goal?

[Anonymous No.20755746]

>>20755700
We don’t, now fuck off for the nth time.

[Anonymous No.20755748]

>>20755700
So, is this your life now? Just asking the same shitty question? Hoping someone is stupid enough to give you an honest answer?

[Anonymous No.20755793]

>>20755717
>That Bakker picture false flag
At least we know now.

[Anonymous No.20755806]

Bakker is King.

Fuck jannies.

Simple as.

[Anonymous No.20755864]

I'm about to read A Farce to Be Reckoned With. What am i in for /sffg/ bros?

[Anonymous No.20755932]

>>20755700
>Why do you consider sci-fi and fantasy to be the superior genres of literature?
I don't consider any fantasy or most of sci-fi to be superior but some sci-fi works i would consider prophetic and therefore superior to mere entertainment.

[Anonymous No.20755946]

>>20755864
I didn't read, but as Zelazny's the author I'm sure you shouldn't expect good writing.

[Anonymous No.20755947]

>>20755726
what is that pic related

[Anonymous No.20755966]

>>20755946
gay and cringe

[Anonymous No.20756023]

>>20755552
He still fails to protect people, it just gets repetitive when every conflict is about whether he can protect people.

[Anonymous No.20756031]

>>20755806
Truth shines.

[Anonymous No.20756061]

>The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, and the Fall of Gondolin
Are these really worth getting on their own if I already have the Silmarillion?

[Anonymous No.20756174]

>>20755285
Sanderson is right winged and he is dominating the fantasy genre, funny how they can't shut him down no matter how trad his stories is.

[Anonymous No.20756194]

So are there any contemporary weird-fiction/fantasy writers that cam rival Peake's prose? He has basically ruined me.

[Anonymous No.20756266]

Guys who here reads science fiction but not fantasy and vice versa?

Wouldn't you agree to create a sci-fi and fantasy general separate in the not too distant future?

[Anonymous No.20756273]

>>20756266
The sci-fi thread would be DOA.

[Anonymous No.20756283]

>>20756266
Hello newfag.

[Anonymous No.20756301]

>>20756266
Sounds like a good plan, what could go wrong?

[Anonymous No.20756302]

>>20755726
I'm already living the bottom mid-right one.

[Anonymous No.20756316]

>>20755726
>fully automated gay space luxury communism
u wot m8?

[Anonymous No.20756322]

>>20755285
He’s uncancelable. Simply because he’s the most competent cape shit writer. No other person has his work ethic.

[Anonymous No.20756324]

>>20756266
>Guys who here reads science fiction but not fantasy
me

[Anonymous No.20756403]

>>20755285
why are you buthhurt?

[Anonymous No.20756413]

I like to read up on the elder scrolls lore but only the obscure lore no body knows about.

[Anonymous No.20756414]

Books about assblasted middle management?

[Anonymous No.20756416]

>>20756283
>newfag
Wrong
I have been browsing 4chan for almost 5 years

[Anonymous No.20756465]

>>20756416
>not almost 20 years

[Anonymous No.20756469]

>>20756416
Your post is hilarious and you don’t even understand why.

[Anonymous No.20756477]

>>20756416
>He thinks that browsing 4chan for 5 years makes him not a newfag

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH

[Anonymous No.20756487]

>>20756416
Oh, so your even newer than a newfag then. Thank you for letting us know.

[Anonymous No.20756491]

>>20756416
Aww so cute

[Anonymous No.20756494]

>>20756416
>5 years
HE IS NON-SUPREME

[Anonymous No.20756500]

>>20756416
Newfags are from 2010, at least. I know because I am one.

[Anonymous No.20756501]

Fuck off retards

[Anonymous No.20756515]

>>20750955

[Anonymous No.20756516]

>>20756416
NEWER THAN AN ELECTION TOURIST! HE WILL NEVER RULE SUPREME!

[Anonymous No.20756523]

>>20756416
Legit kek’d.

[Anonymous No.20756528]

>>20756523
You just know that he’s one of those guys who think that “kek” is a twitch emote.

[Anonymous No.20756546]

>>20756501
Just don't delete your post, newfag

[Anonymous No.20756550]

>>20756528
HE THINKS KEK IS A TWITCH EMOTE!

[Anonymous No.20756557]

>>20756501
>Fuck off retards

[Anonymous No.20756561]

Based thread.

Bakker is King.

Simple as.

[Anonymous No.20756568]

>>20756557
Actually fuming, he must be a sandersoi reader.

[Anonymous No.20756571]

>>20756501
The only retard I see here is you.

[Anonymous No.20756584]

100% most people here haven't been using 4chan for more than a few years and are just trolling poor Anon. Except maybe bakkerspammer, he might have been here since the beginning of the site.

[Anonymous No.20756587]

>>20756584
4chan isn’t getting more popular, you know?

[Anonymous No.20756617]

>>20756587
>4chan isn’t getting more popular, you know?
Isn't it? Wouldn't say so. These days it's a social like any other, just less popular. But I wouldn't say it gets smaller.

[Anonymous No.20756640]

>>20756416
Well-baited.

[Anonymous No.20756652]

[Anonymous No.20756668]

>>20756652

Bakker rules supreme once again.

[Anonymous No.20756681]

>>20756652
Bakker > Wolfe

Simple as.

[Anonymous No.20756685]

Why did she disable the comments on her video?

[Anonymous No.20756702]

Bakker is King.

Janny is cringe.

Kellhus rule supreme.

[Anonymous No.20756709]

Read Bakker.

[Anonymous No.20756719]

>>20756416
Statistically, based off the amount of active users in the thread and their behavior, at least half or greater than half of these replies are from newfags: the 2016+ variant or the 2011+ variant. On that note, it is amusing to see newfags clown on another newfag.

[Anonymous No.20756736]

>>20756719
Imagine being this new.

[Anonymous No.20756741]

>>20756736
You meant to quote the guy I was responding to but it's okay friend, it happens to the best of us.

[Anonymous No.20756744]

What was George thinking about in this picture?

[Anonymous No.20756749]

>>20756719
>newfags: the 2016+
No such thing exists. You don't know what a newfag is.

[Anonymous No.20756751]

>>20756744
He is thinking about the incomprehensible supremacy of Bakker and his noble golden hair eclipsing the brunette peasant beside him.

[Anonymous No.20756752]

>>20756744
Poptarts most likely.

[Anonymous No.20756756]

>>20756744
>What would Kellhus do if he landed in Westeros?

[Anonymous No.20756766]

>>20756756
He would gain total control of all that lives and he would turn Khaleesi into a sex slave.

[Anonymous No.20756770]

>>20756766
Khaleesi wouldn't be able to carry his seed. She would.

[Anonymous No.20756775]

>>20756749
If the year you first found 4chan does NOT have a "00" in it, you are most assuredly a newfag and your newfag revisionist bullshit is psychotic at absolute best.

[Anonymous No.20756779]

>>20756770
He would do both and reign supreme over westros.

[Anonymous No.20756790]

>>20756174
Writing the mother of all omelettes here!

[Anonymous No.20756792]

>>20756744
The gathering of Heroes...
(except whos the guy in the middle?)

[Anonymous No.20756794]

>>20756756
What is Kellhus' tax policy?

[Anonymous No.20756795]

>>20756792
Probably just the host, I would think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjCnU11COm8

[Anonymous No.20756800]

>>20756794
Depends on how much sranc heads you farmed per month.

[Anonymous No.20756802]

>>20756794
99.9% for women and cucks, 0.1% for BVLLS.

[Anonymous No.20756807]

time to make a "what I read" for the Citadel of the Autarch. It will be much harder to make since I have no clear idea about it compared to the Sword of the Lictor

[Anonymous No.20756813]

>>20756770
Is that stroke-fu?

[Anonymous No.20756838]

>>20756795
Bakker dominating the crowd
Filling the room with a sound so loud
Bakker dominating the crowd
With a fiery speech that is so proud

[Anonymous No.20756876]

>>20756813
And what is that?

[Anonymous No.20756918]

So anybody wanna actually discuss books or is the Bakker circlejerk just gonna continue for the next few hours without actually saying anything?

[Anonymous No.20756953]

>>20756795
Martin is a friend of Bakker, he is honorarily supreme.

[Anonymous No.20756959]

>>20756918
Just report it, the bakkerspam, jannies have been on point on that.

[Anonymous No.20756960]

>>20756953
If you played Elden Ring, you would see that he included some Bakker flavouring in it.

[Anonymous No.20756991]

This was a great day.

[Anonymous No.20757007]

>>20756991
An eternal glory bestowed upon this general by the graceful presence of King Bakker, even if he only posted a couple of times, his grace is unperishable.

[Anonymous No.20757019]

>>20756991
those words have sustained the Bakker cultists through all these years
I wonder if he ever checks /sffg/ these days...
The end of Second Apocalypse was a bit too depressing for me, so it would be nice to see our survivors again

[Anonymous No.20757020]

>>20756918
Either do what this anon >>20756959 suggest, or wait until a new thread is made, though I don't see why there should be a new thread considering it's just going to be filled with spam.

[Anonymous No.20757021]

>>20756991
chad

[Anonymous No.20757037]

>>20757021
>his look
Assertive, confident, unyielding
>Her look
Horny, helpless, submissive

Absolute chad.

[Anonymous No.20757048]

This was kino, ngl.

[Anonymous No.20757049]

>>20756918
>>20756959
>STOP TALKING ABOUT THESE BOOKS!

[Anonymous No.20757057]

I'm going to keep posting about Bakker here forever, just saying. There is no rule against it.

[Anonymous No.20757058]

>>20757048

[Anonymous No.20757062]

>>20757058
You made that one? First time seeing it.

[Anonymous No.20757085]

>>20757062
Anon... that is like 3 years old minimum... check the archives.

[Anonymous No.20757106]

>>20754286
>>20754296
>>20754526
>>20755154
>>20755169
>>20755290
>>20756668
>>20756702
>>20756709
>>20756744
>>20756751
>>20756838
>>20757021
>>20757049


You know at first I was maybe intrigued as to what the commotion is all about. But seeing all this spam faggotry I'll put Bakker in the same category of meme joke authors that I'll never read. So like F. Gardner

[Anonymous No.20757109]

>>20757106
Ok, cool. But who asked?

[Anonymous No.20757111]

>>20757106
Do your part in cleaning up this general, anon and report them. No reason why they should go unpunished for thespam faggotry

[Anonymous No.20757114]

>>20757111
I did my part regarding your post.

[Anonymous No.20757123]

>>20757114
Based.
Same.

I guess you scared her into deleting the post lmao.

[Anonymous No.20757128]

>>20757123
>based
Nice to see another 2016+ newfriend :) Stay safe out there on the 4chinz!

[Anonymous No.20757135]

>>20757128
Imagine being scared of the janny like a little bitch :)

[Anonymous No.20757146]

Real Bakker hours

[Anonymous No.20757149]

>Nice to see another 2016+ newfriend :) Stay safe out there on the 4chinz!

[Anonymous No.20757154]

Should I read A Scanner Darkly?

[Anonymous No.20757158]

>>20757154
Try asking in the next thread, no point bothering with this thread.

[Anonymous No.20757159]

>>20757146

[Anonymous No.20757168]

>Try asking in the next thread, no point bothering with this thread.

[Anonymous No.20757174]

>>20757109
You're not doing that good of a job of shilling Bakker if you are actively turning people away from it

[Anonymous No.20757177]

>>20757174
Ok, but who asked?

[Anonymous No.20757184]

>>20757177
Nobody asked for you to parade your neo-pussy in public either.

But here we are

[Anonymous No.20757185]

>>20757174
That's because he hates Bakker. It's clearly a false flag.

[Anonymous No.20757190]

>You're not doing that good of a job of shilling Bakker if you are actively turning people away from it

[Anonymous No.20757192]

>>20757159
"Hackneyed and trite"
lmao, what is that even supposed to mean? Be specific
There is nothing wrong with the 1st chapter. There is something wrong with the the slog-book. This isn't it.

It's just so triggering to me. People that look up 'bad' in a thesaurus, instead of providing criticism

[Anonymous No.20757199]

>>20757159
One can say that Pierre is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Anonymous No.20757208]

What are you reading on this lovely Friday night?

[Anonymous No.20757212]

>>20757208
Anon, there's no point in trying to do this.

[Anonymous No.20757213]

>>20757208
Bakker, funnily enough.

[Anonymous No.20757220]

>>20757208
Stormlight Archive. Book 2.

[Anonymous No.20757223]

>>20757208
The iron king

[Anonymous No.20757230]

>>20757208
Paranoid Mage
Nearly done. Getting book 2 soon. I will read Reincarnated as a farmer bk 2 next week.

[Anonymous No.20757232]

>>20757208
The Great Ordeal.

[Anonymous No.20757233]

>>20757185
That’s your excuse for everything. Just fuck off already

[Anonymous No.20757237]

>>20757208
The Well of Stars by Robert Reed.
Due to events in the first book, Marrow, the Great Ship (a Jupiter-sized vessel) was knocked off course and now, instead of circumnavigating the galaxy as originally planned, the ship is scheduled within a few centuries to pass through a dark nebula with suspicious signs of life, before beginning a long cold voyage outside of the galaxy.

[Anonymous No.20757238]

>>20757185
This desu. It's pretty obvious at this point.

[Anonymous No.20757240]

>>20757208
Neuropath

[Anonymous No.20757241]

>>20757238
Why do you lie??

[Anonymous No.20757248]

>>20757241
Lie about what, retard?

[Anonymous No.20757250]

>>20757230
>Reincarnated As A Farmer
How'd you like book 1? I felt it was... Just kinda odd. Pacing was all over the place.

[Anonymous No.20757256]

>>20754286 #
>>20754296
>>20754526
>>20755154
>>20755169
>>20755290
>>20756668
>>20756702
>>20756709
>>20756744
>>20756751
>>20756838
>>20757021
>>20757049
This shit is fucking cancer, why don’t you faggots just fuck off to some discord and just cirfclejerk there.

[Anonymous No.20757265]

>>20757248
>spam the thread with endless bullshit
>It wasn’t me
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.20757269]

>>20757208
TWI

[Anonymous No.20757284]

>>20757250
I enjoyed it. It's why I'm picking up book two. I'm just a sucker for someone thinking outside the box. Taking the shit life has given you, and applying it differently to make yourself better. Smart protagonists are always an enjoyable read.

[Anonymous No.20757285]

>>20757248
>Lie about what
Are you seriously asking that after Bakker spam circlejerk?

[Anonymous No.20757286]

>>20754286(You)
>>20754296 (You)
>>20754526 (You)
>>20755154 (You)
>>20755169 (You)
>>20755290 (You)
>>20756668(You)
>>20756702(You)
>>20756709(You)
>>20756744(You)
>>20756751 (You)
>>20756838 (You)
>>20757021(You)
>>20757049(You)
This is actually pretty based, ngl.

[Anonymous No.20757293]

>>20757285
>circlejerk

Its pretty much the same troon

[Anonymous No.20757303]

>>20757106
>>20757256
It’s some retarded ESL (no doubt the same faggot who shills chinkshit constantly) who was filtered by Bakker and triggered by the vocabularies of his readers, so he resorts to endless falseflagging with his gay poetry and one-liners. This schizo has been a persistent curse on this general for over a year at this point.

[Anonymous No.20757305]

>>20757286
Since you're intent on false flagging this hard, I will read Bakker just to see why you hate him.

[Anonymous No.20757311]

>>20755726
Cybernetic sex slime transcendence? I'm listening...

[Anonymous No.20757317]

>>20757305
based

>>20757293
yup and his name is moogy
known autistic schizo weeb and bane of the litrpg community

[Anonymous No.20757319]

>>20757303
Really doubt it when there’s other spammers getting ban and seething about it.

[Anonymous No.20757323]

>>20757319
Just because someone makes a post about Bakker, it doesn't mean it's spam. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.20757324]

>>20757303
You do know the IP count rose with the spam right? There's more than one person.

[Anonymous No.20757329]

>>20757256
Unironic falseflagging. Same dude popped up months ago spamming to himself. Last time it was a million simulated conversations of "we bakkerchads like anal rape" or some retarded shit.

Shame really, because before that there was actually a decent conversation on the books (i.e. actual paragraphs, not the one liners and image cancer).

[Anonymous No.20757336]

>>20757284
I just thought it was a little banal. There didn't seem to be enough pay-off for the entire book, it just kinda... Ends.

[Anonymous No.20757349]

>>20756744
Will they notice if I fill this diaper?

[Anonymous No.20757358]

>>20757336
Didn't he get what he wanted in the end?
He wanted to find a way that he didn't have to work, he got it.

[Anonymous No.20757362]

Any litRPGs/haremlits where the MC is kind of a loser for a good chunk of the story

[Anonymous No.20757386]

>>20757362
Yes, many, and no I don't remember them to give you, because those are the shit books which are dropped a few chapters in.

[Anonymous No.20757389]

>>20757323
Doubt it.

[Anonymous No.20757391]

>>20757389
Lurk more then.

[Anonymous No.20757394]

[Anonymous No.20757396]

I hate Bakker, I hate Bakker, I hate Bakker, I hate Bakker.

[Anonymous No.20757403]

>>20757396
>*disables comment section*

[Anonymous No.20757415]

>>20757396
Her meltdown was funny as fuck.

[Anonymous No.20757430]

>>20757396
>all that fakeup and still ugly

[Anonymous No.20757461]

And somehow... Bakker is supposed to be this softy leftist

[Anonymous No.20757466]

>>20757461
Low IQ people do now know what critique means.

[Anonymous No.20757491]

Here it is. I'm really tired now. I think I'll go to sleep now. Enjoy!

[Anonymous No.20757581]

>>20757430
No amount of face paint can hide bone structure

[Anonymous No.20757590]

>>20757581
>he doesn't know about contouring
They can do illusions to make their bone structure change. It's why you never trust a girl with heavy makeup.

[Anonymous No.20757595]

https://youtu.be/L0w4Ksoy8pE?t=1205

[Anonymous No.20757606]

>>20757386
Why
I honestly don't understand the genre
It's pretty clear its aimed at actual nerd type losers
And they're all supposed to self insert as either ex-marine divorced dad of three or a psychopath quarterback with no morals and a bodycount in the triple digits before the story even starts?
I'm not talking the extreme opposite doormat but whenever I see a character that even has an ounze of empathy or self doubt or any other "beta" characteristics people just bash on the MC and book for being the biggest pussy alive, a disgrace for all Real Men and a White Knight (tm) (kinda like what happens with Shinji in Evangelion for reference if you haven't read much of the genre, deep rooted meme of "Shinji is a pussy xd" that makes most people, from the get go, dismiss any all aspects of the character and uphold him to otherwordly standards)

[Anonymous No.20757676]

>>20757606
Honestly I never see that much of what you're saying. The one I did read with a military guy getting isekai'd was really fucking bland (The Ten Realms) though weirdly popular, and most of the better LitRPGs I've read have had more nuanced protagonists.

[Anonymous No.20757691]

>>20757606
It's because everyone hates betas, especially betas.
The vast majority of people want to back a winner, an ideal. How many football maniacs have actually played football anywhere near professional level? People want to watch cool, powerful, competent people, not slow losers. Only people so far gone they're completely consumed by self hatred would identify with a weak cuck, and even they would mostly prefer a more assertive protagonist so they could feel better.
Empathy is not sympathy, often those most close to someone are the most hated, because they display the same personal flaws and shortcomings.

[Anonymous No.20757696]

>>20757021
She's hot.

[Anonymous No.20757710]

>>20755243
The issue, as always, is bad writing. ALL conflicts and events, no matter how minor, are ultimately deux ex machina. The absolute worst thing I can't stand in a story is when some character is in terrible danger and then the story just rescues them by having the threat evaporate without them doing anything, but even that's just a matter of execution. For example, the antagonist suddenly deciding the spare the protagonist when he could easily kill him is a shit scene, but if there's bee sufficient preparation and explanation to show that it really is the best choice and his decision makes sense then it all works fine. The only differentiating factor is how engaged you were with the scene. Often the solution is to focus on the how or why of the MC's success in the face of overwhelming odds, to put the mind into analytical or philosophical mode and thus be able to ignore the contrivance, and if not that, then do have the situation be engaging and entertaining enough that you don't care or even welcome it. For example, in a comedy characters who randomly escape near death situations aren't usually an issue at all, because there's never any expectation that they won't.

[Anonymous No.20757714]

Why did Sando turn Kaladin into a depressed super man?

[Anonymous No.20757718]

>>20757058
based, here's mine...

[Anonymous No.20757720]

>>20757714
He always was depressed. That's the point.

[Anonymous No.20757727]

>>20757696
maybe if you like strung out meth whores who look like they're transitioning

[Anonymous No.20757728]

>>20757718
Do you have the top left picture meme?

[Anonymous No.20757732]

>>20757727
Holy shit, how could you tell?

[Anonymous No.20757739]

>>20757691
Not everyone. Its a uniquely western thing where christianity is dead, good morals and values are dead and literal thieves and criminals are celebrated and glamourized. Like the Vikings

[Anonymous No.20757746]

>>20757732
Is this what skin spies look like?

[Anonymous No.20757758]

>>20757739
Are you nuts? People hated betas WAY MORE in the past!
The "loser protagonist" is a uniquely modern invention.

[Anonymous No.20757779]

>>20755285
sandersnoy is pro-l now

[Anonymous No.20757783]

>>20757779
Why isn't he writing about trans people though?

[Anonymous No.20757794]

This would be kino in a book, ngl.

[Anonymous No.20757819]

>>20757783
>>20757794
She's hot. Sauce?

[Anonymous No.20757865]

>>20757415
I hate women.

[Anonymous No.20757871]

>>20757718
kino
how did u make this?

[Anonymous No.20758014]

>>20757303
I'm fairly certain it's not a falseflagger but an actual bakker shill

[Anonymous No.20758044]

>>20757758
No they didn't. Infact piety, charity, humility, kindness were celebrated values in the past

[Anonymous No.20758069]

>>20757758
Loser protagonists aren't real. They look soft and weak and humble but they're secretly 101% badasses.... just like me once I go all out! Heh nothin personnel j*cks...

[Anonymous No.20758074]

>>20757871
Epic Fantasy Battle Simulator + Microsoft Paint

[Anonymous No.20758109]

>>20757491
whats the best gene wolfe book? I didn't like the wizard knight.

[Anonymous No.20758114]

>it's a Rand chapter

[Anonymous No.20758131]

>>20757718
Top-right guy reminds me of Tulkas. Who is he?
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tulkas

[Anonymous No.20758145]

>>20757739
>Vikings
Vikings are based, they are the true heroes.

[Anonymous No.20758174]

Why do bakkerfags keep shilling their left wing communist author?

[Anonymous No.20758184]

>>20758131
it's meant to be Kellhus

https://princeofnothing.fandom.com/wiki/Anas%C3%BBrimbor_Kellhus

[Anonymous No.20758186]

>>20758044
All of which betas don't possess. Your example, shinji, is the antithesis of all human virtues past present and future.

[Anonymous No.20758217]

>>20756174
>Sanderson is right winged
>how trad his stories is.
Sanderson is right wing in the same way Lady Maga is

[Anonymous No.20758231]

>>20758174
Updated version

[Anonymous No.20758234]

>>20758231
Try again

[Anonymous No.20758241]

>>20758145
vikings are snowniggers who did nothing but pillage defenceless monasteries and get their asses raped any time Franks or Saxons or even fucking GAELS fought back

[Anonymous No.20758244]

$20AUD off eBay, gentlemen. What am I in for?

[Anonymous No.20758258]

>>20758231
>>20758234
Sanderson is left wing

[Anonymous No.20758259]

>>20758241
>nooo white people can't be masculine
Viking are still based

[Anonymous No.20758277]

>>20758241
t. SEETHING englishman

[Anonymous No.20758291]

>>20758186
I never used Shinji as an example. That other guy did. And I'm mostly responding to how he >>20757606
describes a modern fantasy hero. Celebrating such ruffians as ideals is surely a modern western thing.

>>20758145
Vikings(or atleast the modern potrayal of them) are a bunch of savage, valueless, degenerate scum who embody the very hatred modern western society holds for christian values. Their glorification of murder, loot, rape, arson is symptomatic of our current values where winning at all costs, even if it means to be an asshole scum is valued over being a productive and constructive member of society

[Anonymous No.20758294]

>>20758241
>even GAELS
yeah the cunts that not even the romans would fuck with and built two massive walls to keep out

[Anonymous No.20758300]

>>20758217
Wait this has gay shit?

SKIPPED

[Anonymous No.20758320]

>X added.
>Y said.
>Z replied.
A 12 year old could do better than this. Come on, Sandy. You know I've always been in your corner, mate. I've always had your back against your detractors in this general, but bro.............

[Anonymous No.20758325]

>>20758320
It's a 3+ person conversation, you're gonna have speech tags going around.

[Anonymous No.20758331]

>>20758291
>winning
Yes, Vikings WIN, you LOSE

Simple as.

[Anonymous No.20758363]

>>20758331
I can see how the Vikings would specifically appeal to low iq losers lmao. Stockholm syndrome again. Men are constantly ass raped by those in power so much so that they begin to defend the structures that allow this. As if they are doing the assraping now by proxy.

[Anonymous No.20758376]

>>20758363
How ironic coming from a christian.

[Anonymous No.20758430]

>>20758300
Sandersnoy only cares about money

[Anonymous No.20758441]

>>20758376
I'm not christian

[Anonymous No.20758473]

>>20758363
You are the one obsessing about ass rape in every post, sounds like an unhealthy loser activity.

Vikings win again.

[Anonymous No.20758559]

>>20758331
Historically vikings lost in every single engagement with an enemy that consisted of people with iron weapons, and even against fucking indians in north america who didn't have access to metallurgy at all. Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were able to make headway against an advanced Brythonic power but Vikings got spitroasted every time they faced Saxons. They were more of a nuisance that people paid to go away.

[Anonymous No.20758569]

>>20758217
the dialogue reminds me more of a 90s american sitcom than an epic fantasy novel

[Anonymous No.20758572]

>>20758569
He wants to emulate Joss Whedon

[Anonymous No.20758585]

>>20758174
Who is the fat ginger in the rigtwing section

[Anonymous No.20758654]

>>20758559
You will never rule supreme.

[Anonymous No.20758661]

>>20754368
i didn't think so.

[Anonymous No.20758662]

>>20758217
>>20758300
Malazan - has gay shit
Second apocalypse - has gay shit
Stormlight - has gay shit
Mistborn? I actually don't recall, it probably did have a gay character
Realm of the Elderlings - quite a lot of gay shit
TBC - don't remember? I think there was some gay rape
Dread empire - none that I remember

[Anonymous No.20758666]

>>20758662
None in Mistborn era 1 at least

[Anonymous No.20758668]

>>20758654
>the bakkerfag is also a LARPagan
why am I not surprised

[Anonymous No.20758680]

You know what? Fuck fantasy, it's all garbage..

[Anonymous No.20758681]

>>20758680
You have eyes to see yet still can't recognize Mt. Tai. Sad!

[Anonymous No.20758689]

>>20758231
How is Robert Jordan right wing? Isn't WOT an entirely matriarchal society? Chalked full of strong powerfull women

[Anonymous No.20758713]

>>20758662
>TBC - don't remember? I think there was some gay rape
All I remember is Sleepy joining the company to avoid being buttfucked by uncles, but she was secretly a girl.

[Anonymous No.20758759]

>>20758231
I'm not sure if you can justifiably put Joe Abercrombie on the left when the AOM trilogy was basically a long criticism of communism, ended with the racist character gaining full control of the union and had the people accusing the blacks of being eaters (cannibals) be right all along

[Anonymous No.20758768]

What do you want to see more of in speculative fiction?

[Anonymous No.20758770]

>>20758680
>>20756266

[Anonymous No.20758787]

>>20758668
Who said anything about vegan, I worship Bakker the ruler of all that lives.

[Anonymous No.20758802]

>>20758768
Fractal worldbuilding

[Anonymous No.20758803]

What the fuck am I reading? Why is every chapter about this 16 year olds breasts?

Isn't he like a 40 year old leper?

[Anonymous No.20758816]

>>20758803
Heterosexuals are so fucking gross right?

[Anonymous No.20758822]

>>20758803
Men prefer younger women.

[Anonymous No.20758823]

>>20758816
I mean, I get that it's basically an Isekai. But in Isekai the protagonist is usually a young youth

What I'm envisioning is a pox scarred old man licking his lips every chapter hoping to molest a young girl

It's uncomfortable
At least have them be close of age
Honestly protagonists shouldn't be older than 20 in general

[Anonymous No.20758839]

>>20757106
All I said was that I don't want Bakker involved with ASOIAF, how does that quality as spam faggotry?

[Anonymous No.20758846]

>>20758803
>>20758823
He's a bitter incel and it's supposed to be creepy

[Anonymous No.20758855]

>>20758846
fuck off

[Anonymous No.20758856]

>>20758855
dilate, hon

[Anonymous No.20758869]

I've just woken up, but seeing so much deleted stuff warms my heart. Good job Janny, delete spammerfags. Lately this general's been almost unreadable.

[Anonymous No.20758900]

>>20758823
So basically
>how dare an unattractive man have sexual feelings

[Anonymous No.20758914]

>>20758822
Women age worse than men. The whole "seek someone close in age" meme is pretty much a value proposition that feminized societies use to fuck over men.

[Anonymous No.20758928]

>>20758174
>DIS WRITERS ARE ON TEAM 1
>DIS WRITERS ARE ON TEAM 2
>FIGHT!!!

Kill all americans

[Anonymous No.20758964]

>>20758900
It's more along the lines of
>How dare an old man have feelings
Like an unattractive youth cursed with leprosy who is bitter at the world is a grand tale, his lust and feelings of youth are understandable and sympathetic

An old mans?
Absolutely horrid.
Disgusting sick and foul.
That is not a story, that is a horror

[Anonymous No.20758972]

>>20758964
People are fine with old rich men being highly sexual, celeb examples are everywhere. It's the fact that the dude's a leper and probably a poorfag.

[Anonymous No.20758998]

>>20758972
It's just the way it's written
I don't mind it when GOT has old men raping wenches
But when it's written in other works it's something that happens, and than the story moves, it doesn't linger

This feels like Lolita, and I can feel the author masturbating while writing

I don't like it
Not one bit

[Anonymous No.20759007]

>>20758998
GOT old men raping wenches aren't lepers.

[Anonymous No.20759008]

>>20758291
>or atleast the modern potrayal of them
You got so close to not being a retard but you kept talking.

[Anonymous No.20759012]

>>20758559
>but Vikings got spitroasted every time they faced Saxons.
Either you're shitposting or you need to open up a history book.

[Anonymous No.20759055]

I am reading The Eye of the World. It's horrendous.

[Anonymous No.20759070]

>>20759055
Thought the same desu
It's not only cliche, the writing is below the level of a popular webnovel. Is it just nostalgia that makes people sing paeans to its name?

[Anonymous No.20759102]

Female protagonist with overpowered male love interest books?

[Anonymous No.20759114]

>>20759102
Pretty sure that's a xianxia subgenre

[Anonymous No.20759146]

Do you guys think Sanderson will be have multi-generational longevity? For the record I don't like his stuff, but I am not really looking to dunk on him, its just that there have been instances of incredibly popular authors who are very quickly forgotten after their lifetime and I am wondering if people think that will be the case with him or if he will become an institution.

[Anonymous No.20759152]

>>20759146
No.

[Anonymous No.20759165]

I'm reading Children of Time, enjoying it a lot so far

[Anonymous No.20759167]

>>20758174
The greatest artists are all left wing.

[Anonymous No.20759172]

>>20758662
You sound like a snowflake.

[Anonymous No.20759180]

>>20759146
>Do you guys think Sanderson will be have multi-generational longevity? For the record I don't like his stuff, but I am not really looking to dunk on him, its just that there have been instances of incredibly popular authors who are very quickly forgotten after their lifetime and I am wondering if people think that will be the case with him or if he will become an institution.
If in 10-20 he starts writing deeper books? Maybe. Otherwise I don't see him standing the test of time, unless the Internet changes things and now it's easier to be remembered. He's simply not providing much beyond entertainment, you should know how easily he is to replace. Not to mention tastes change with generations, so his work would need to be universal enough to appeal to different people. Can he do that? Doubtful.

[Anonymous No.20759183]

>>20758174
Tolkien was left wing though.

[Anonymous No.20759185]

>>20758109
The Fifth Head of Cerberus if you're not in it for the long run. Only read New Sun if you know you'll finish it.

[Anonymous No.20759201]

>>20759172
I don't mind the gay shit I was just responding to the other anon
In fact I love realm of the Elderlings which has a lot of gay stuff

[Anonymous No.20759223]

>>20759172
You don't know what that means

[Anonymous No.20759235]

>>20759223
Ok, snowflake.

[Anonymous No.20759309]

any good stories with an overpowered/strong mage?

[Anonymous No.20759329]

>>20759309
The Aspect Emperor pretty much.

[Anonymous No.20759353]

>>20759309
>any good stories with an overpowered/strong mage?
Mother of Learning is a go-to

[Anonymous No.20759356]

>>20759309
Dread Empire

[Anonymous No.20759377]

>>20759309
I Shall Seal The Heavens

[Anonymous No.20759394]

>>20759329
Bakker, right?

[Anonymous No.20759460]

>>20754162
Any books that will give me the feeling the Thelema movement is correct?

[Anonymous No.20759480]

>>20758109
1. The Fifth Head of Cerberus
2a. Claw of the Conciliator
2b. Citadel of the Autarch
2c. Sword of the Lictor
2c. Shadow of the Torturer
3. The Sorcerer's House
4. In Blue's Waters
5. Soldier of the Mist

[Anonymous No.20759499]

>>20759480
Reading Shadow of the Torturer always feels like I'm sitting in a comfy chair by the fire on a winter night with hot cocoa and a blanket.

[Anonymous No.20759503]

>>20759460
Masks of The Illuminati. The climax of the novel is a three way big-brain battle between Joyce, Einstein and Crowley.

[Anonymous No.20759510]

>>20759499
Just my opinion, I think book 2 is easily the best then book 4, most people I've seen here think 3 is the best one.

[Anonymous No.20759515]

>>20759510
I don't think I'd disagree with Claw or Citadel being better than Sword, actually.

[Anonymous No.20759524]

>>20759515
I guess it depends how much you enjoy Severian's journey across the mountains. To me nothing compared to Claw where it's just one insane thing happening after another, nonstop.

[Anonymous No.20759602]

>>20754353
>t. never read between two lines in his life.
Dude, the whole series has been about cutting off the CG from the negative feedback loop between him and all his wretched followers, which is why Paran sanctions the House of Chains and why so many of the Malazans take up position within it. Karsa's face turn after becoming his Mortal Sword feeds into that as well. Even the non-communicativeness of that whole thing serves to highlight that it isn't some clever scheme but rather innate goodness that drives it.

[Anonymous No.20759606]

>>20759602
Noooo you can't just be good people who help someone who needs help you need to have le ebin boss fight against the evil god like in my animes!

[Anonymous No.20759610]

>>20755243
Make a rec thread for "autist & psychopath approved /lit/" then

[Anonymous No.20759620]

Here's a crippled god question

did cotillion kill him out of mercy, kill him to send him home or kill him out of revenge?

[Anonymous No.20759629]

>>20759394
Yes. But you should start with the Prince of Nothing.

[Anonymous No.20759651]

>>20758759
Go back to school

[Anonymous No.20759686]

>>20759620
I'm pretty sure he just needed to shed is mortal form to go home, as they were saying some such earlier. A bit annoying that Erikson went with another 'shocked onlooker POV' for that scene though.

[Anonymous No.20759760]

>>20757362
>this somehow turned into another cuture war shit flinging contest
Just recc me something I can use to self insert as and feel slightly better about myself man

[Anonymous No.20759781]

>>20758244
Funny to see that the other guy who calls it Gormengoober is an aussie too. We must just love love silly wordplay.

[Anonymous No.20759826]

>>20758662
Thanks. Will skip all of them. Except maybe malazan

[Anonymous No.20759832]

>>20759008
I'm just right. Keep seething about it.

[Anonymous No.20759883]

>>20759760
>Just recc me something I can use to self insert as and feel slightly better about myself man
Mother of Learning is great for inspiration and motivation for self-improvement. If you don't know, it's about a young mage from relatively well-faring commoner family who attends a mage academy. He's smart, BUT not a genius like his brother. Because of his family, he's bitter, resentful and angry 15 year-old. One day, due to some events he becomes trapped in a time-loop, forced to relive the same month over and over again, changing as a person over time.

It's great, and I guess amazing for self-insert if that's what you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.20759976]

>>20759832
Now judge Christianity by the standards of modern media stereotypes, hmmm yeah if you have an ounce of self-reflection you should be feeling foolish.

[Anonymous No.20759994]

>>20759102

[Anonymous No.20759996]

>>20759976
Why should I? I was never criticising the original Vikings to begin with. For all purposes they are irrelevant, even Scandinavians stopped indulging in that barbarism way before modern era even started. But how they are glorified in western media, especially what aspects are glorified is a reflection of western moral bankrupcy.

[Anonymous No.20759999]

>read Dungeon Crawler Carl because supposedly it's the best the genre has to offer
>book 2 in and I feel bored already
So which litrpg series is the ACTUAL best one

[Anonymous No.20760003]

>>20759996
Cont.

It is similar to the idolisation of Tony Stark CEO types and his irl counterparts (like Elon Musk)

[Anonymous No.20760006]

Anyone here reading /r/HFY stories?

[Anonymous No.20760007]

>>20760003
>cont
You can post more than three sentences in one post, newfag.

[Anonymous No.20760010]

>>20759999
>litrpg

Maybe don't read trash and you won't get bored

[Anonymous No.20760016]

>>20760007
Ok but who asked you?

[Anonymous No.20760027]

>>20759999
>I feel bored already
How? It's one of the most active and consistent big series going on right now, with little to no downtime.
>>20760016
Lurk moar until you can contribute to the thread without embarrassing yourself in front of everyone. We have enough lolcows.

[Anonymous No.20760036]

>>20759999
Quads of truth. If you want to defend shitty genres than you at least need to match those digits.

[Anonymous No.20760042]

>>20760027
>contribute to the thread

Just like you did? By seething over a completely innocuous posting approach like a complete twitter troon

[Anonymous No.20760065]

>>20760042
Lurk moar until you can contribute to the thread without embarrassing yourself in front of everyone. We have enough lolcows.

[Anonymous No.20760074]

>>20754177
Why is yerin brown

[Anonymous No.20760080]

>>20760074
My guess is the artist either didn't understand descriptions or just kind of assumed Yerin would be darker because she traveled more but... The implication is she's pretty standard-fare for Ashwind, so I dunno. Alternatively it's just bad fanart, which it is.

[Anonymous No.20760084]

Read this after some anon spammed it a thread or so back

Expected it to be shit, first chapter had me almost drop it thinking it would be nothing but scalie circlejerking or something. But
Its actually really great, it has classic elves and dwarves and adventure.
Glad I read it.

[Anonymous No.20760099]

>>20760027
>How? It's one of the most active and consistent big series going on right now, with little to no downtime.
Idk what to tell you, Carl just felt bland as an MC, and Donut too one-dimensional. The worldbuilding wasnt interesting to me, the tone of the book felt similar to Hitchhiker but hitchhiker was at least sometimes funny, DCC I only laughed like once or twice in the beginning. There's also the quippy AI that got old real quick. For what its worth, I'm going to push it to at least book 3 cause I have nothing better to do right now.

[Anonymous No.20760106]

>>20760099
I'd say book 3 is when it gets really good personally, because they delve more into Carl's characterisation. Donut never really gets too complex, but that's sort of the point, she's meant to be a simple character as something of a reprieve from all the bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20760107]

>>20760084
Good to hear someone else enjoying Dragon stories. At the moment I half-way through the second book, and while it's not as exciting I still like it.

[Anonymous No.20760114]

>>20759999
Book 2 of DCC is a bit boring, the stuff with the circus was a snoore-fest. It gets back on truck soon enough, though, and gets even better than before. Trust me, I almost dropped it at the place you are right now.

[Anonymous No.20760115]

Give me your best adventure fantasy with literary flourishes or worldbuilding?

[Anonymous No.20760142]

>>20760115
The Dread Empire

[Anonymous No.20760162]

>>20760115
>Give me your best adventure fantasy with literary flourishes or worldbuilding?
I could start listing fantasy books that i like but i won't be able to choose just a single one. Shall i list some fantasy books?

[Anonymous No.20760186]

>>20760065
>repeating like a demented kid in special eds class.

I'm sorry for you anon. Not everyone gets to be nuerotypical

[Anonymous No.20760195]

>>20760099
Carl is one of the more realized characters in popular books today. Honestly, I don't think 'popular' is an apt term, perhaps subjective to this general. Carl has firm convictions and would genuinely shit in the mouth of most xianxia protags because Carl reaches many points where he nopes and says he has had enough, and immediately proceeds down a path of conflict resolution, be it pacifist or aggressive. Donut and Carl's relationship does improve; one of the biggest occurrences of DCC that I enjoy is the conversations you want the characters to have DOES come up waiting for the DCC 5 epilogue to come up in book 6. The worldbuilding gets better. Maybe the first two floors were bland to you? I ended up enjoying the Iron Tangle (book/floor 3) a lot more than I thought I would but book 2 is when I accepted that I would be reading all of DCC to completion. Book 3 is when things become proper spicy and book 4 has the best scene in the story, imo. I get you that the references aren't funny or the AI. The footfag AI becomes acceptable over time and Carl's reactions to shit is what gets me. His internal monologue is humorous and serious in that we see how he segregates himself from the outside world, putting on a mask.
Some faggot called Carl a sad sack but Carl is a mad sack. Carl may be the most wrathful MC around for now.

[Anonymous No.20760199]

>>20756061
Only The Children of Hurin

[Anonymous No.20760200]

>>20760162
Okay list then anon. I’m very keen to hear.
>>20760142
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.20760216]

>>20760195
Being constantly indignant and angry at the fact that human civilization was instantly deleted and enslaved by alien overlords isn't "firm convictions", it's vapid and patronizing.
>they killed millions of people and cast me in a dungeon where I risk my life for their amusement, and that's WRONG
Whoa no shit dude, really?

[Anonymous No.20760231]

>>20760107
Based
Iv just started on it too

[Anonymous No.20760234]

>>20754162
I'm reading the AE van Vogt's sequel to World of Null-A, and it didn't stick out at me as much last time, but he is really not a great writer. His narration is constantly vague and confusing. Anything relating to science and technology is gobbledygook.
This really is guilty pleasure type stuff. It's the closest thing in quality to RL Stine's child/teen fiction I've read this year, and Stine's prose is cleaner. Van Vogt's strengths, and the only reasons to read him, are in his pure imaginative power, and his all-action plots that constantly drive forward and increase the stakes every few chapters. And, I guess, his 1950s sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.20760254]

>>20760107
>>20760084
redpill me on this series

[Anonymous No.20760273]

>>20760254
It's an adventure of a dragon from his hatching to adulthood in a world with humans, dwarfs, elves and neanderthal like things. The book covers a time of about 30 years and he has adventures and makes friends with various races/animals. It's wholesome and also brutal at the same time.

[Anonymous No.20760310]

>>20760254
A classical fantasy story from a point of a Dragon, from the moment of his birth, turbulent youth and going up in the world. Basically a typical male fantasy adventure, but for a dragon instead for a young man. It's not a fairy tale, the author doesn't hold back. People are killed, mentions of rape, the dragon follows his own draconic morality. In short, it's typicall coming of age story, full of adventure, loss, strange meetings with other people, etc.

Published in 2008, so if you are wondering if it's full of modern shit, it's not. The opposite, it's conservative as fuck (female dragons think mostly of finding good dragon husbands, male dragons of how to woo female dragons).
Dragon Kino, in short.

[Anonymous No.20760313]

>>20760273
>>20760310
I'm not a furry so this doesn't interest me

[Anonymous No.20760324]

>>20760313
Brain-rotted anon, it has nothing to do with furry or scalies. It hurts to see a good fantasy story overlooked due to addled mind

[Anonymous No.20760341]

>>20760324
Look, i don’t care about your fursona novel, it’s not for me, okay. Just accept it.

[Anonymous No.20760343]

>>20760324
I already read that book when it was called The Dragon and the George and that was all the dragon POV literature I needed thank you very much

[Anonymous No.20760401]

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low,
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

So George can write better lyrics than Tolkien?

[Anonymous No.20760428]

>>20760401
>rhymes "claws" with "yours"
evidently not

[Anonymous No.20760462]

>>20754162
What’s the best Lovecraft collection? I have the two Gollancz ones but I’m sure it’s missing some stuff. I’m thinking of getting the Arkham House editions but they’re quite rare.

[Anonymous No.20760470]

>>20760200
Steven Brust and the whole Dragaeran series.
Raymond E. Feist and the whole Riftwar series.
David Farland and the whole Runelords series.
Terry Goodkind and the whole Sword of Truth series.
Robert Jordan and the whole Wheel of Time series.
Terry Pratchett and the whole Discworld series.
Robert Silverberg and the Lord Valentine's Castle books.
Roger Zelazny and the The Chronicles of Amber series.
Roger Zelazny and the Dilvish the Damned series(includes The Changing Land book).
Tad Williams and the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series.
Robin Hobb and the The Farseer series.
Ursula K. Le Guin and the Earthsea series.
Michael Moorcock and the Elric series.
Gene Wolfe and the The Book of the New Sun series.
Glen Cook and the The Black Company series.
Lois McMaster Bujold and the World of the Five Gods series.
Lois McMaster Bujold and the Sharing Knife series.
Sergei Lukyanenko and the Night Watch series.
Martin Scott and the Thraxas series.
Oliver Johnson and the The Lightbringer series.

This is series of fantasy books i'd suggest. Later today or tomorrow i'll make a list with individual books.

[Anonymous No.20760485]

>>20758869
Hopefully, the next three days are peaceful and productive.

[Anonymous No.20760560]

>>20760462
>What’s the best Lovecraft collection?
The one you enjoy reading, I presume.

[Anonymous No.20760599]

>>20760560
Yeah. I don’t enjoy reading the ones with the (((editor’s))) meddling which is nearly all of them besides Joshi’s corrected ones. But they cost at least 150 USD per collection and there’s several of them. I guess I’ll just invest in them for their value in the future.

[Anonymous No.20760646]

>>20760462
The Barnes and Noble leatherbound has all of Lovecraft's prose works and only excludes his letters and poems.

[Anonymous No.20760651]

>>20760470
>Roger Zelazny and the The Chronicles of Amber series.
DO NOT TAKE THIS EVIL POSTER'S ADVICE, ROGER ZELAZNY IS THE MOST ABOMINABLE FANTASY AUTHOR OF ALL TIME

[Anonymous No.20760652]

>>20760428
>rhymes "Dilo" with "Bombadilo"

[Anonymous No.20760666]

>>20760652
based

[Anonymous No.20760693]

>>20760651
>DO NOT TAKE THIS EVIL POSTER'S ADVICE, ROGER ZELAZNY IS THE MOST ABOMINABLE FANTASY AUTHOR OF ALL TIME
Seconded, tried to read his Amber series but just 100-150 pages proved he was one of those shit authors that got popular for unknown reasons.

[Anonymous No.20760731]

>>20760693
>he was one of those shit authors that got popular for unknown reasons.

The reason is that he was part of the in-group of new wave scifi, friends with everyone from writers, to publishers, etc.

[Anonymous No.20760772]

>>20760731
>The reason is that he was part of the in-group of new wave scifi, friends with everyone from writers, to publishers, etc.
I hate this much. Recently, I've noticed that it's the same with webnovels. There is a circle of bigger authors that recommend each other, do shot-outs, sit in the same discords, etc. And of course they are friends with moderators of relevant subreddits. Shit's tighter and more self-serving than traditional publish ever could.

[Anonymous No.20760819]

>>20760772
I hope you realize the import of what you said as it relates to persistently spammed subjects in this general.

[Anonymous No.20760847]

>>20760646
The poems and letters are worth reading though

[Anonymous No.20760909]

>>20760847
that may be true but they aren't quite as critically necessary to understanding Lovecraft's oeuvre which is primarily expressed in prose

[Anonymous No.20760937]

>>20759146
He's already immortal because he completed the WoT. He can shit the bed for the rest of his life and will never be forgotten. Sanderson is the one author that has disappointed me the most. The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are a little padded, but they're genuinely great fantasy books. Warbreaker was also quite enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.20760953]

>>20760937
Will Wheel of Time stand the test of time? Unapalatable to modern readers, lauded mostly only by nostalgic boomers, now also represented by shit Amazon tv show that even fans dislike. Not a bright future. Even now Wheel of Time is mostly recommended by boomers. New readers don't read that.

[Anonymous No.20760961]

[Anonymous No.20761006]

>>20754162
I think I've read every good webnovel now
Cradle == MoL > Rev. Insanity == Lord of the Mysteries >ISSTH> [the assorted works of I eat tomatoes] => Worm ==various litrpg

Idk what to do with my life now

[Anonymous No.20761029]

>>20761006
Not seeing The Wandering Inn among those, you still have something to finish before you're done.

[Anonymous No.20761043]

>>20761029
He said Good Webnovel.

[Anonymous No.20761052]

>>20760693
I liked Damnation Alley.
>>20761043
Oxymoron.

[Anonymous No.20761079]

>>20761006
Shit taste, step aside:
LotM > Release that Witch = APGTE > MoL > Cradle = The Perfect Run > various litrpg

Exluding incomplete webnovels (LotM is technically incomplete, but not really) and stuff i haven't read, obviously.
TWI would be 2nd or 1st, probably

[Anonymous No.20761087]

>The Wandering Inn shills can't handle the fact people don't like it

[Anonymous No.20761094]

>>20761006
Good list, ignore the wandering inn shills, they’ve been annoying for some time now.

[Anonymous No.20761095]

>>20761006
Why lead with Cradle which isn't a webnovel?

[Anonymous No.20761106]

mol is garbage

[Anonymous No.20761113]

>>20760651
Sounds based. Will read him ASAP.

[Anonymous No.20761123]

Wandering Inn > Mother of Learning == Worm > DCC > Worth the Candle > Practical Guide to Evil > Never Die Twice

[Anonymous No.20761182]

>>20761087
I can't even handle the fact that people would put MoL and Cradle over LotM.

[Anonymous No.20761192]

>>20761182
I've yet to read LotM but I've heard good things. I just have problems reading translated stuff because it's often very wooden.

[Anonymous No.20761227]

>>20760651
>>20760693
The fuck are you shcizos talking about? Zelazny is great.
>>20761113
He is great. Go and read The Changing Land.

[Anonymous No.20761243]

>>20761227
I read all 10 of the Chronicles of Amber books and I regretted every single second of it
Nothing will ever, EVER be that bad

[Anonymous No.20761253]

>>20761243
>i read all those books that i hated
>10 books to be exact
>i kept reading them
>believe me when i tell you that they are bad
Are you mentally ill?

[Anonymous No.20761277]

I've finished Dragon Avenger and my impressions are...mixed. I see what the author intended to do with this book, but I think he felt short in execution. This book is very, very similar to the first one, and even though it might have been intentional from the author to draw parallels between the dragon siblings, it still ends up being a repeat of the story in the first book, just different.

Overall, I'd rate it lower than the first one, but not due to repetition in plot but because of it just wasn't as interesting as the first one. Much of this could be even called slice-of-life. The series maintains its darker, grim tone of the realities of dragons' lives. Death, betrayal, greed and avarice. And the main protagonist isn't a saint either.

I wish a better writer had written this story, but it's good for what it is.

6.5/10

PS: There's this one weird part where the protagonist, a female dragon, arrives at a secluded domain of a dragon family where she's asked to...bear a clutch of eggs for the daughter of the host, an old white dragon, as the daughter is barren. She just wants hatchlings of her own. Now, everyone is treating the protagonist with respect, mostly, give her place at their table, safety of their sanctuary...but they are portrayed as a bit decadent because they don't really care about other dragons and don't leave their sanctuary. So, when the protagonist is asked to do that, she freaks out and flies away, while calling it unnaturall.

I don't get the moral here, surrogacy is bad and decadent? And it's not as if she was forced, just asked if she would consider doing so. Is surrogacy generally considered bad by american liberals and conservatives? I mean, the author does seem lean between conservative-liberal, but I'm just confused as to what the moral is.

[Anonymous No.20761293]

>>20761277
Oh, and I forgot the dragon-song in the first book, seeing people were posting poetry I think I can just as well post it:


Listen my hatchling, for now you shall hear
Of the only seven slayers a dragon must fear.
First beware Pride, lest belief in one’s might
Has you discount the foeman who is braving your sight.
Never Envy other dragons their wealth, power, or home
For dark plots and plans will bring death to your own.
Your Wrath shouldn’t win, when spears strike your scale
Anger kills cunning, which you will need to prevail.
A dragon must rest, but Sloth you should dread
Else long years of napping let assassins to your bed.
‘Greed is good,’ or so foolish dragons will say
Until piles of treasure bring killing thieves where they lay.
Hungry is your body, and at times you must feed
But Gluttony makes fat dragons, who can’t fly at their need.
A hot Lust for glory, gems, gold, or mates
Leads reckless young drakes to the blackest of fates.
So take heed of this wisdom, precious hatchling of mine,
And the long years of dragonhood are sure to be thine.

[Anonymous No.20761344]

>>20761293
Meh, it’s mediocre.

[Anonymous No.20761387]

>>20761277
I still think you ought to put these elsewhere as well rather than just in a thread about to expire.

As for your spoiler, I haven't read it, but I don't think there's anything to it other than she doesn't want to do it and finds it both strange and improper that they would ask a stranger to do so. It'd be like a human guest visiting someone and that someone's parents ask if the guest if they'd mind being impregnated by the husband and then they will keep the child. That's not something to ask lightly and involves a lot of serious consideration.

[Anonymous No.20761402]

>>20761387
>I still think you ought to put these elsewhere as well rather than just in a thread about to expire.
Honestly, my broken english and lack of knowledge and understading makes me hesitatnt to think these reviews are worth saving anywhere beside my computer. They are still better than most of the contents of this general, though, so I have no problems posting here to see what others think.

[Anonymous No.20761415]

>>20761402
You should definitely keep doing them, also, hopefully, the next thread is better than this one.

[Anonymous No.20761441]

>>20761415
The next thread should be better since the spammers got ban. So, we should have 3 days of peace.

[Anonymous No.20761463]

>>20761441
caca poop merde

[Anonymous No.20761477]

>>20761441
Maybe we’ll actually get some sort of discussion.

[Anonymous No.20761657]

New thread
>>20761653

[Anonymous No.20761697]

>>20761253
I did this with all 14 WoT books.

[Anonymous No.20761700]

>>20761697
I don't think that guy you're replying to knows what sunk-cost fallacy is

[Anonymous No.20761764]

>>20761095
Very similar vein. Obviously wn inspired. Technically MoL has a paperback now.
>>20761182
To be fair I read lotm quite a while back and ran out of translated chapters, reading some mtl chapters maybe spoiled my memory of it. Def liked MoL a lot regardless.

[Anonymous No.20761881]

>>20761657
Once again, newfags are trying to force a discussion instead of letting it form naturally.

[Anonymous No.20761884]

>>20761881
They probably think if no one makes a post in five minutes the thread is dead, ignoring the fact that /lit/ is a slow board.

[Anonymous No.20761898]

>>20761657
Hey, after twenty minutes, a new IP appeared.

[Anonymous No.20761904]

>>20761881
>newfags are trying to force a discussion instead of letting it form naturally.
It's fucking weird seeing them post a question and when no one replies to it, they post a different one.

[Anonymous No.20761932]

>>20761243
I read the first Amber book as a teenager, hated it, forgot most of it, read it again at 30 and hated it for the exact same reasons. No idea what people see in it, it's shit.
Lord of Light is amazing though.

[Anonymous No.20761970]

>>20761904
There’s also a retard that’s replying to the shitposters.

[Anonymous No.20762080]

>>20761970
There's always going to be that type of retard.