Holy Bible General

[Anonymous No.20696501]

Thread to discuss the greatest written work of all time.

[Anonymous No.20697347]

>>20696501
Based

[Anonymous No.20697351]

>inb4 this thread gets deleted before >>20697289

[Anonymous No.20697359]

why exactly are these threads getting deleted?

[Anonymous No.20697366]

>>20697359
/lit/ is a qu'ran board now

[Anonymous No.20698076]

>>20696501
How do I get into Scientology?

[Anonymous No.20698842]

Anyone have any good commentaries on Leviticus? I'm on chapter 5 but I get the sense I'm missing out on a lot of the context.

[Anonymous No.20698865]

>>20698842
check out catenabible

[Anonymous No.20699043]

Why isn't there more discussion about Jesus's failed prophecy that he would return in one generation? I understand why christians dont talk about it. But you'd figure this would be more widely known amoung non-christians since it definitively disproves christianity.

>inb4 generation doesn't mean generation

[Anonymous No.20699311]

>>20699043
'genea' in greek. means 'age'. an age is a period of time, and Christ is saying "this age shall not pass until I return". you could call the whole of post-Fall world an age, just to exemplify how the word can be used. Bible Project has a video on it.
if you still want to go "but it means generation!" and i happen to concede to it, it's around passages about the end times, so it refers to the last generation, when the end times are happening.
the former is proper.

[Anonymous No.20699417]

>>20696501
“The Silk-Worm is a remarkable type of Christ”
https://youtu.be/jiegso1JQWw

[Anonymous No.20699569]

>>20696501
Has anyone here read Lattimore's New Testament translation? I'm very curious as to how it compares to more standard translations. I've only ever read KJV and NIV for the most part, being raised protestant and all that.

[Anonymous No.20699612]

>>20699569
>"no pretense of being a Bible scholar"
gets my eyebrow to go up to the back of my head.
i'd recommend the Berean Study Bible if anything. seems to be an amazing little translation, and it's Biblehub's standard.
i wouldn't bother with it, personally.

[Anonymous No.20699782]

>>20696501
Do y'all channers think that we're entering the 1000 years of peace after the death of the Antichrist soon?

Look up Revelation 20

[Anonymous No.20699952]

>>20699043
>>20699311
Jesus said age not generation. The age of Pisces began around His time and it is said to end around 2150 AD

[Anonymous No.20700628]

>>20699782
I'm not protestant no

[Anonymous No.20700665]

>greatest written work of all time
>half of it is written by a false apostle that killed christians and then started making his own fanfic to mislead people
the gospels, Christ, and everything Christ said was legit. almost everything else is nonsense and should be removed from the NT. organized christianity is only harmful in its current forms. miss me with your pope worship bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20700675]

>>20700665
>picrel
you are turboretarded anon

[Anonymous No.20700681]

>>20699782
>heckin antichristerino
everything is the antichrist to people. so no. hitler, alexander the great, and twenty others were the antichrist apparently. nothing is coming to save us. we were tricked into pathologically "loving" people who wanted to destroy us.

[Anonymous No.20700689]

>>20700675
>falling for jew tricks in current year
wew

[Anonymous No.20700695]

>>20696501
Fun Fact: a "paradise" is a Persian loanword, used by Assyrians to mean "park". Imagine some low-class migrant got so much impressed by your fucking grass-mawed backyard, that they made a cosmogonic myth about it.

[Anonymous No.20700704]

>>20700681
>don't love your enemies
I think I'll take Christ's word over yours.

[Anonymous No.20700708]

>>20700689
which jew tricks? his country was invaded, it's not his fault he's trying to defend it.

[Anonymous No.20700712]

>>20700704
the problem is you misinterpret His words and twist him into some hippie pushover. the meaning is to not feel hate in your heart, even if you must destroy your enemies in brutal fashion you can still do it with love in your heart and because you're protecting. this is why i really can't stand organized christianity. you're unironically too stupid and spiritually dead to understand it.

[Anonymous No.20700719]

>>20699043
They have fields of study where all they do is engage in mental gymnastics to explain why details like that don't discredit the Bible.

[Anonymous No.20700736]

>>20699043
>Why isn't there more discussion about Jesus's failed prophecy
"Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth?" (Ezekiel 12:22)

[Anonymous No.20700744]

>>20700712
>you must destroy your enemies in brutal fashion
>i really can't stand organized christianity
> you're unironically too stupid and spiritually dead to understand it.
You are not a Christian

[Anonymous No.20700747]

>>20700708
Yes it is. He could choose to surrender.

[Anonymous No.20700759]

>>20700744
truth is i'm just not a retard who falls for twisted doctrine meant to harm you. the catholic church is a cult that has tried to claim they have a monopoly on christ. in their eyes, Christ doesn't offer salvation, they do. suck my balls faggot have fun getting replaced in your own country because you're too naive to understand the difference between "loving your enemies" and "letting them fuck your wife".

[Anonymous No.20700816]

>>20699782
Millennialism is a heresy. The symbolic one thousand years began when Jesus came and founded the Church, and the Gospel spread across the Earth and triumphed over paganism. All the while the saints ruled with Christ. We’re getting close to the point where Satan will be unbounded again, though.

[Anonymous No.20700840]

>>20700744
The sermon on the mount is directed primarily towards interpersonal relations, not society at large. Jesus never denounced government, and never denounced the military (even commending the faith of a centurion above everyone in Israel), and we know that both Paul and Peter taught that the government is instituted by God to wield the sword, and to punish evildoers. Christians can absolutely brutally destroy their enemies if they need be, and can still pray for them and demonstrate their love by laying down their lives for their country and family and friends, which Jesus says is the highest form of love. In some situations, not to brutally destroy your enemies leads to worse sins propagating than before. War remains lamentable though

[Anonymous No.20700854]

>>20700695
True for Sumerians too funny enough. They're night be legitimacy that a garden which has all of Earth is a universal trope as with the flood and a savior

[Anonymous No.20700859]

>>20700840
>Christians can absolutely brutally destroy their enemies if they need be, and can still pray for them and demonstrate their love by laying down their lives for their country and family and friends, which Jesus says is the highest form of love.
> 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again

[Anonymous No.20700864]

>>20700816
Really? The 1000 year rule of satan was not the Church burning people for printing, owning, or even translating the Bible?

[Anonymous No.20700884]

>>20700747
>bro just surrender bro I swear nothing bad happens bro
>Holodomor was based and we should do it again tho
Maybe just don't attack your neighbors if you are so based and trad and Christian

[Anonymous No.20700950]

>>20700859
what about all of that badass shit Jesus is going to do to his enemies in revelation? I guess he shouldn't do any of that huh? he should just pathologically love them, i'm sure that will work out better! pic related is you

[Anonymous No.20701069]

>>20700864
>Prot thinks that the only Church is Catholic schismatics
Every time

[Anonymous No.20701089]

>>20700859
Just war theory has a long history in Christianity. Monks who are pursuing Christian perfection go to the letter in practicing the sermon on the mount and should be commended, but when hostile foreign armies come to rape your wife and destroy your people and to persecute churches, you fight them. Jesus never told the centurion to give up his profession, and even commended his faith.

>In the [Muslim] Saracen encampment they asked St. Cyril [Enlightener of the Slavs]: “How can Christians wage war and at the same time keep Christ’s commandment to pray to God for their enemies?’ To this, St. Cyril replied: “If two commandments were written in one law and given to men for fulfilling, which man would be a better follower of the law: The one who fulfilled one commandment or the one who fulfilled both?’ The Saracens replied: “Undoubtedly, he who fulfills both commandments.” St. Cyril continued: “Christ our God commands us to pray to God for those who persecute us and even do good to them, but He also said to us, Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13). That is why we bear the insults that our enemies cast at us individually and why we pray to God for them. However, as a society, we defend one another and lay down our lives, so that the enemy would not enslave our brethren, would not enslave their souls with their bodies, and would not destroy them in both body and soul.”

* This excerpt is from “The Prologue of Ohrid” by St. Nicholas Velimirovic of Zica

[Anonymous No.20701120]

That's Quran, actually. If you only knew Arabic and could read it in its sublime poetical beauty. I appreciate Jesus (pbuh) and everything but you don't know what you could have.

[Anonymous No.20701145]

>>20701120
>I appreciate Jesus
You do not even know Jesus. Jesus is not in the Qur’an.

[Anonymous No.20701170]

if the bible is the word of god why is the life of jesus communicated to us by 4 different texts written by people who weren't even eyewitness to him and that all contradict each other at various points

[Anonymous No.20701177]

>>20701145
Not him but do you actually know the original name of Christ?

[Anonymous No.20701188]

>>20701170
There are no contradictions in the Gospels. The Gospels were written by the Apostles of Jesus, who were eyewitnesses to the events they saw. The Gospels never have any different attestation of authors in the Tradition of the Church. Even in the time of Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp who knew John personally, he was writing that there are four and only four Gospels, written by the Apostles. The idea of the Gospels being post-70 AD is based on the academic presupposition that Christ could not have predicted the Temple’s destruction.

[Anonymous No.20701219]

>>20701177
It’s definitely not ʿĪsā, friend. Jesus is from the same name as Joshua, and means in the Hebrew ‘YHWH is salvation’, which is fitting, since Jesus is God our Savior.

Isaiah 43:11
>I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Luke 19:10
>For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.

John 3:16-18
>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved

John 1:1
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[Anonymous No.20701229]

>>20701219
Who's Yeshua then, friendo?

[Anonymous No.20701236]

>>20701229
Yeshua = Joshua = Jesus

His name still isn’t ʿĪsā, cope.

[Anonymous No.20701244]

>>20701236
I'm not a muslim. Besides what are your Biblical references on Yeshua = Joshua?

[Anonymous No.20701261]

>>20699311
And thus the coping begins

[Anonymous No.20701262]

>>20701244
The LXX translates both Joshua and Jesus as Ἰησοῦς. Etymological research confirms that they are the same name, as well.

[Anonymous No.20701273]

>>20701261
St. John Chrysostom points out the exact same thing in his homilies on Matthew, and shows that in Psalm 24 (23 LXX) the same word, γενεὰ is used to refer to a kind or spiritual lineage of people:

>This is the generation (γενεὰ) of them that seek him, that seek the face of the God of Jacob.

[Anonymous No.20701452]

>>20701089
>but when hostile foreign armies come to rape your wife and destroy your people and to persecute churches, you fight them.
Ok but this has less to do with Christianity and more to do with politics. You're just giving the janny reasons to delete the thread that he was going to delete anyway. Just stick to discussing the Bible here so we are blameless.

[Anonymous No.20701469]

>>20701452
The source for the defense of that position is right from the Bible, and can be sourced in a book on the lives of saints. If one wants more talk of just war theory, this is touched on in City of God. Jannies literally don’t give a shit and will delete the thread regardless, everything I mentioned involves literature.

[Anonymous No.20701478]

The old testament is boring as fuck

[Anonymous No.20701485]

>>20701478
Maybe the history books, but even those are very rewarding.

[Anonymous No.20701580]

When you read the Gospels you can see that Jesus Christ is always in control. Even when hordes of scheming Pharisees are confronting Him, it doesn't phase Him or intimidate Him at all. No one can surprise Him or outsmart Him. Even when He is sent to be crucified, it is because He allows it, not because they had power over Him.

[Anonymous No.20701658]

[Anonymous No.20701968]

>>20696501
Just read Book of Daniel.
What are your thoughts on the 70x7 prophecy? Is this predicting Christ? Is this just trying to correct Jeremiah? Is it cope?

[Anonymous No.20702144]

>>20701968
It’s a prophecy for Jesus. The math works, and interestingly even early Church Fathers realized this (Hippolytus iirc writes about the prophecy of the seventy weeks). The events are prefigured by the Maccabees but fulfilled in truth in Jesus

[Anonymous No.20702224]

>>20700681
>I don't understand the difference between repeating and culminatng types
retard.jpg

[Anonymous No.20702318]

>>20700681
1 John 2:22
> Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

There have been many antichrists in history, but there will be one Antichrist.

[Anonymous No.20702406]

>Just started reading Douay Rheims translation
>Very much so enjoying it
>Just started on the book of Numbers
>getting this sinking feeling that I should just be reading the KJV if I want to understand the context in which bible references are used in literature.
I guess I'll just have to read both.

[Anonymous No.20702463]

>>20701968
it's predicting Christ. with the whole math done, it is correct.
i saw a nice video explaining it a while ago, and also found a link, here:
>https://www.oneforisrael.org/uncategorized/daniel-9-the-coming-of-the-messiah/
https://youtu.be/pRDjAv3SKrU

[Anonymous No.20702472]

I have seen videos of the Catholic priest Robert Barron. I don't trust him. He seems like a homo.

[Anonymous No.20702480]

>>20702463
also proof that Jesus is the Messiah.

[Anonymous No.20702485]

If Jews follow the Old Testament then how come they don't see all of the very obvious phrophecies and foreshadowing of Jesus Christ in their own books? Are they literally just in denial?

[Anonymous No.20702497]

>>20702485
A few do https://www.gotquestions.org/Jewish-Christian.html

[Anonymous No.20702505]

>>20702485
they've been misled, mostly. the rabbis do their hardest to keep the power and status of their position; that's why they created the Talmud, oral law, and everything else. those books and "traditions" usually warp Scripture or make up a meaning for passages, so that they can keep denying Christ and holding their positions.

that context gives a lot more weight to the warnings about false teachers.

[Anonymous No.20702507]

>>20702485
They just discard most of the OT and only care about the Torah and the Talmud

[Anonymous No.20702509]

>>20702507
>Talmud
Wasn't this written after the Bible

[Anonymous No.20702542]

>>20702509
yes.
see >>20702505
the rabbinical goal has basically been to be able to bend Scripture until it breaks in the most ways possible, for their own benefit.

it's even worse nowadays; the sages and rabbis of older times knew and accepted that passages like Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 were messianic; modern rabbis are contradicting the old ones just to keep themselves in power.

the problem isn't the common jewish fellow, it's their teacher. being taught and brought up in error, they end up defending it.
the new testament is forbidden in there, and people get angry at the mere mention of Jesus' name, just so you have an idea of how they're fooling the people.

[Anonymous No.20702708]

>>20702485
> If Jews follow the Old Testament
Big ‘if’ — Jews follow their rabbis and the Talmud, which features stories in which the rabbis are capable of outsmarting God. The Torah is said to ‘not be in heaven’ and is totally at the whims of rabbinic authorities. Jews have lapsed into paganism and crypto-gnosticism in their Kabbalah and the ideas of reincarnation.

> In frustration, Rabbi Eliezer finally cries out, "If the halakha is in accordance with my opinion, Heaven will prove it." From Heaven a voice is heard, saying, "Why are you differing with Rabbi Eliezer, as the halakha is in accordance with his opinion in every place that he expresses an opinion?" Rabbi Joshua responds, "It [the Torah] is not in heaven" (Deuteronomy 30:12)
> God smiled and stated, "My children have triumphed over Me; My children have triumphed over Me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oven_of_Akhnai

No wonder Jesus could not even convince these pilpuling Pharisees. Rabbinic trickery has retconned the Messiah into two different people, Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David, the suffering Messiah and the king Messiah.

The Talmud even affirms that the Messiah should have came already, but because of their sins it hasn’t. How weird!

> It is written: “There came with the clouds of heaven, one like unto a son of man…and there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom…his dominion is an everlasting dominion” (Daniel 7:13–14). And it is written: “Behold, your king will come to you; he is just and victorious; lowly and riding upon a donkey and upon a colt, the foal of a donkey” (Zechariah 9:9). Rabbi Alexandri explains: If the Jewish people merit redemption, the Messiah will come in a miraculous manner with the clouds of heaven. If they do not merit redemption, the Messiah will come lowly and riding upon a donkey.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5458622/jewish/98a.htm

And he came on a donkey!

> In relation to the discussion on the calculation of years, the Gemara states that one of the Sages of the school of Eliyahu taught: The world is destined to exist for six thousand years. For two thousand years the world was waste, as the Torah had not yet been given. The next set of two thousand years are the time period of the Torah. The last set of two thousand years are the period designated for the days of the Messiah, but due to our many sins there are those years that have been taken from them, i.e., such and such years have already passed and have been taken from the two thousand years that are designated for the Messiah, and the Messiah has not yet arrived.
https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.9a.5?lang=bi

Look at the cope, they know something is awry, and the cognitive dissonance is sad.

Let’s not forget the Talmud is full of seething against proto-trinitarian interpretations of Jewish scriptures. Read the book ‘Two Powers in Heaven’

[Anonymous No.20702814]

>>20702472
I don’t trust any Catholic priest. They all have a certain ‘look’ to them that closely aligns with how homosexuals look. Plus, the entire history of Roman Catholicism is one of flip-flopping on dogma, heresy and forging documents to push their worldly influence and power. Rome is an abomination.

[Anonymous No.20702868]

Pope Francis looks Jewish.

[Anonymous No.20703232]

>>20701478
Filtered, it’s kino

[Anonymous No.20703251]

>>20702542
>>20702505
>>20702708
most interesting. thanks for the insight

[Anonymous No.20703278]

>>20702708
Good post

[Anonymous No.20703381]

>>20702814
This
Catholics take dollar store tier "bread" wafers from fag hands

[Anonymous No.20703712]

Is there anyone with a good knowledge of the history of Christianity? I'm looking for information about acedia, and especially how it was/is dealt with.

[Anonymous No.20703854]

>>20703712
what do you think yours derives from?

[Anonymous No.20703912]

Is the human soul created at conception? Around half of all fertilized eggs die spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. This would mean *by design* half the people out there go straight to limbus, defeating the purpose of their creation.

[Anonymous No.20703920]

>>20700884
Conquering evil is righteous and just. Read the Book of Joshua.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20703934]

>>20696501
A hidden, invisible mystery came forth:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.20704006]

>>20703854
I'd say it's from a lack of purpose, which itself comes from narcissism. I'm not sure about the origin of narcissism. Possibly something during my childhood, as it's when the low mood/acedia started. But I don't know why.

[Anonymous No.20704048]

Why would anyone be a Christian? You literally have to love black people and accept millions of refugees or you're literally going against Jesus' word. Seek meaning elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.20704057]

>>20701478
Only Leviticus, Numbers, and some of Deuteronomy; even so there are good parts there.

[Anonymous No.20704092]

>>20703912

[Anonymous No.20704138]

>>20704048
>Why would anyone be a Christian?
Because you're born in a Christian country/city/family for most people. The logistics for changing religions are rough, and usually, people won't accept you well. Let's say you're Italian. Most people are catholic. A few are orthodox, but you won't fit in the local Eastern diaspora. So then you have Protestantism, which from my very limited experience is a bit more welcoming since it's the "underdog". Then Judaism, this one is built to make sure you join it not for you but for your children or your children's children. There's Islam, but again, fitting in will be difficult. And we finish with Buddhism and Hinduism. Buddhism is great if you work in tech startups and are "not really into religion, but still a spiritual person", and I know nothing about Hinduism, except that if you're Italian there is probably nobody in the people you know that is Hindu.

>You literally have to love black people and accept millions of refugees or you're literally going against Jesus' word.
The vast majority of Christians vote right-wing/conservative where I live. The Christian Left doesn't exist anymore. Side note: you will have to accept millions of refugees to keep the cost of labor down, Christian or not.

[Anonymous No.20704275]

>>20701658
What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.20704306]

>>20704138
>Because you're born in a Christian country/city/family for most people. The logistics for changing religions are rough, and usually, people won't accept you well. Let's say you're Italian. Most people are catholic. A few are orthodox, but you won't fit in the local Eastern diaspora. So then you have Protestantism, which from my very limited experience is a bit more welcoming since it's the "underdog". Then Judaism, this one is built to make sure you join it not for you but for your children or your children's children. There's Islam, but again, fitting in will be difficult. And we finish with Buddhism and Hinduism. Buddhism is great if you work in tech startups and are "not really into religion, but still a spiritual person", and I know nothing about Hinduism, except that if you're Italian there is probably nobody in the people you know that is Hindu.
I mean if that's your reasoning you can just become atheist. Being Christian means you have faith in Christ, not that it's the convenient choice for whatever reason.

[Anonymous No.20704364]

>>20704306
>Being Christian means you have faith in Christ, not that it's the convenient choice for whatever reason.
Your initial reaction was to reject Christianity because it's inconvenient, but accepting it because it's convenient doesn't work? That sounds surprising to me. Especially since faith aligns with convenience in the vast majority of cases.

[Anonymous No.20704372]

>>20704048
>Why would anyone be a Christian?
Because it’s true.

[Anonymous No.20704373]

>>20702708
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oven_of_Akhnai
>Rabbi Eliezer cries out, "If the halakha is in accordance with my opinion, the walls of the study hall will prove it." The walls of the study hall begin to fall, but are then scolded by Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah who reprimands the walls for interfering in a debate among scholars. Out of respect for Rabbi Joshua, they do not continue to fall, but out of respect for Rabbi Eliezer, they do not return to their original places.
Kek, they've always been decent comedians at least. I can see why Seinfeld is so good at what he does now

[Anonymous No.20704378]

>>20704364
I'm not that guy, I was just letting you know

[Anonymous No.20704486]

https://youtu.be/7o7UGLTauHI

[Anonymous No.20704502]

>>20704378
Oh, my bad. Still, that doesn't answer my question on the nature of faith. Is this something you have or have not? Is this something you can develop? Is it a "fake it until you make it" type of situation?

[Anonymous No.20704547]

>>20704502
If you have it, you're Christian, if you don't have it, you're not. How you get there, that's between you and Christ.

[Anonymous No.20704620]

>>20704547
That doesn't help at all, which I guess means "see your local priest". I'm a bit surprised that Christians don't have a canned response to "what if I don't feel faith?". Or maybe it's done on purpose because they don't want the kind of person that asks this question?

[Anonymous No.20704643]

>>20704620
I don't know what you're talking about or what you expect to hear

[Anonymous No.20704684]

>>20704502
it's something you can develop. it's basically trusting God, really. comes after you understand who He is, through reading Scripture.
>>20704620
>what if i don't feel faith
study and pray for it. i'd say understanding God's promises already does wonders. and, the more you learn, the stronger it gets.

i think there are no "canned responses" to it because it's not something anyone is used to seeing, or thinking about.

[Anonymous No.20704750]

>>20704684
Thanks anon, that helps

[Anonymous No.20704771]

>>20700747
Imagine if he actually surrendered.
Pol would be screeching this jew let his country get raped without a fight.

[Anonymous No.20704789]

>>20704750
glad to help. any other questions anon?
my all-around tip is keeping in your head that 'the Bible is always right'.
anything sounds "weird" or such, don't just do like the fedoras who turn it into a strawman; go look for the original, commentaries and explanations.
i know it sounds weird to hear, but it literally is like that. the Bible is perfect, sufficient and inerrant. you just need to understand it.
Pauline epistles, for example, are very dense and complicated; and people usually get tripped up somewhere because of it.

[Anonymous No.20704802]

>>20696501
Does God heal sickness? And if I pray for a cure will I get it? I've been dealing with IBS-C, anxiety, depression, autism, etc and it's been really horrible to deal with.

[Anonymous No.20704909]

Does the bible say anything about visiting the graves of loved ones and praying at their tombs?

[Anonymous No.20704949]

>>20704789
>my all-around tip is keeping in your head that 'the Bible is always right'.
Thanks, that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.20705129]

>>20704909
Jesus’ disciples visited his tomb. I can’t find anything in the Bible that prohibits visiting graves and praying at their tombs. 2 Maccabees has an example of praying to God on behalf of the dead. As long as one isn’t trying to like summon their spirit or give offerings it seems fine.

[Anonymous No.20705134]

>>20704909
Isn't that what happens when people venerate the relics of saints?

[Anonymous No.20705143]

>>20699311
That isn't even the false meaning that is usually given, which is that genea means race. Genea meaning age is even less plausible. Whatever meaning you want to use (which is justified only in that you want) it has to make sense with the other uses of genea in the bible: https://biblehub.com/greek/genea_1074.htm
Which they don't, because the use is unambiguos. Also the greek word for age is aionos https://biblehub.com/greek/aio_nos_165.htm

>and i happen to concede to it [...] it refers to the last generation when the end times are happening.
Like how wearing two condoms doesn't give you double protection, but instead gives you worse protection than than one, giving two conflicting arguments doesn't strengthen your position, but makes it obvious you're throwing out whatever excuse you can think of.
Anyways Jesus is addressing his contemporary generation, because it's his disciples who asked him when the second coming would happen, and that is who he is addressing. This is further backed up as Jesus says:
"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." -Matthew 10:23

It's obvious from reading Paul that he thought the second coming was imminent as well:
"What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short." -1 Corinthians 7:29
"For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep." -1 Thessalonians 4:15

>>20700736
Do you think this passage means that it's okay for prophecies to fail? If so read the next verse, or even the entire chapter.

>>20699952
I'll be sure to mark it on my calendar.

[Anonymous No.20705147]

How do I join a monacistic order. Not incredibly religious just tired of the world

[Anonymous No.20705152]

>>20705147
>Not incredibly religious
You’d hate being a monk then

[Anonymous No.20705169]

What's a book which shows how Orthodox Christians have traditionally viewed the Bible?
I'm thinking a book that's grouped into different themes and in each section they provide bible verses, selections from the Orthodox tradition and author commentary to explain how Orthodox Christians saw these verses and it's importance to doctrine and worship
Also I'm interested in how these things have changed over time
Also is there a good book which basically does a TLDR about the church fathers and why they matter? A short biography for each (or a selection of the most important ones), the things that they wrote about with provided context about how others saw those same things and the importance of their writings within the different Christian traditions up to this day?

[Anonymous No.20705217]

>>20705143
>It's obvious from reading Paul that he thought the second coming was imminent as well
Jesus taught to stay awake and live with watchfulness at every moment, because we do not know when the hour is. Paul teaches the same. This is in Matthew 24:36-51. We have been living in the end times since the incarnation of Christ. This is standard Orthodox Christian doctrine. Christ also teaches that the end of the world will not happen until the Gospel has been preached to every corner of the globe —Matthew 24:14. This has not yet happened, but is rapidly approaching. Large parts of China, India, Africa, and the Middle East remain without the Gospel. And we should also surmise that this means the true Gospel, not whatever heresies have taken root in some of these areas.

>"For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep."
This can include people after Paul’s time, that’s how I’ve always read it. And again, the end will not come until the Gospel has been preached to every corner of the earth. This is Jesus’ command to the disciples too—that all creatures be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How ridiculous are atheists who believe that Jesus would demand all nations be baptized in his name and then would be expected to come back within a generation. Must we not forget the prophecies in Isaiah which say that all around the earth Gentiles will burn incense for God? (Malachi 1:11) Or that Israel would be THIRD after Egypt and Assyria? Which, ‘coincidentally’ were great centers of early Christendom? (Isaiah 19:24). Must we forget that the Bible prophecizes a global government of the antichrist before the end? (Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:21-25). I could also point at the millennium, which began with the first advent of Christ, where the saints reign with Christ in the first resurrection even now, and Christendom spread across the globe in fulfillment of Christ’s command and the prophecies of Scripture. Satan has not been unleashed yet, but the time is drawing near. All of the signs are indicating that the tribulation is only a century off or so. Also, the Third Temple has not been built yet. This is another sign of the Antichrist, and is in the works as well.

You just haven’t read the Bible

[Anonymous No.20705228]

>>20705143
Strong's gives it as meaning "age" aswell.
the second argument is just the point made if i were to agree. which i don't.

the other verses are the same issue, you're taking that "problem" and decontextualizing verses to agree with it.
literally first Christians around already wrote about that misunderstanding of Scripture.

[Anonymous No.20705238]

>>20705143
>>20705228
and to further drive that point, i could say 'aionos' means world based on the word choice of translators.

[Anonymous No.20705240]

>>20705169
Unfortunately a TL;DR of the Church Fathers is basically impossible. If you want a good peak into the Fathers with a lot of quotes and their interpretations and theology, look into volume 2 of Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev’s ‘Orthodox Christianity’, the one on ‘Doctrine and Teaching of the Church’. Hilarion’s whole series is solid, honestly, particularly volume 1 too. PDFs are available. Not the best scans, but it’s readable.

[Anonymous No.20705250]

>>20705152
That's not how I mean it. I'm not areligious or antireligion.

[Anonymous No.20705259]

>>20705169
kind of unrelated, but check Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture. it's 29 volumes, and i've heard it's good.

[Anonymous No.20705369]

Been reading the Robert Alter Hebrew Bible translation. I really recommend it.

[Anonymous No.20705634]

>>20704092
wow you're so based and redpilled but it's a shame you didn't read my post

[Anonymous No.20705646]

It's been 2000 years.
He is NOT coming back.
Get over it.

[Anonymous No.20705736]

>>20696501
4/5 for me
Didnt like the ending but its a solid plot and well worth a re-read

[Anonymous No.20705779]

>>20696501
Christbros why can't we all get along
We all agree that Jesus Christ is Lord, who cares about the details?

[Anonymous No.20705812]

>>20700854
>a universal trope as with the flood
It isn't. The flood makes sense as a myth for Mesopotamian region, because those two damn rivers always do that from time to time, being a huge pain in the ass for irrigation attempts, but the Israel region never experienced such problems.
The Jews, however, got used as slave-workers by the Assyrians and the language analysis shows that texts were composed approximately at that period. In other words, it isn't "universal", if it is stealing.

[Anonymous No.20705864]

>>20705779
No you don't get it, if you say obedience to Rome is [not] absolutely necessary it's just as if you rejected all christianity.

[Anonymous No.20706156]

>>20705779
See >>20704486

[Anonymous No.20706173]

>>20705779
Wait a minute... what the fuck?

[Anonymous No.20706384]

>>20700950
literally me. you don't have to be a dick about it though

[Anonymous No.20706414]

God's will is eternal ; the will of God, it is the will.
Any criticism(s)?

[Anonymous No.20706464]

>>20704138
the cost of labor should be up

[Anonymous No.20706580]

On Revelation and the synagogue of satan
https://youtu.be/8burn-GUnh8

[Anonymous No.20706591]

>>20696501
the I Ching is a pretty great book. thanks for creating a dedicated thread for its discussion, though I think you could use some spelling lessons.

[Anonymous No.20706795]

>>20700759
You are likely arguing with a jew.

[Anonymous No.20706805]

>>20697359
this isnt literature. holy shit get your own fucking board.
i dont give a fuck about anachronistic christards or reddit atheists. i come here to discuss LITERATURE.
nobody wants to watch you two camps of shitbrains battle each other like down syndrome gladiators.

[Anonymous No.20706948]

>>20706805
The Bible is the only literature that matters

[Anonymous No.20707399]

>>20706805
if jannies stopped deleting the threads you could just filter them by subject and send all Christian questions to this thread. everyone would be happy

[Anonymous No.20708350]

I would like to be catholic (maybe) but because I live in Finland which is majority protestant/lutheran country, it just feels like I would be always larping and never real catholic. Maybe Orthodoxy could be great compromise because Orthodox Church has a legal position as a national church in Finland, along with the Evangelical Lutheran Church so it wouldn't feel as much like larping because there is history of that church here.

But I'm bit sceptical of anything with ties to Russia so there's that. Luckily Orthodox Church of Finlanf is autonomous archdiocese of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and not Moscow but still one can't deny that Orthodoxy is heavily assosiciated with Russia so it feels bit like Trojan horse for Russian propaganda.

[Anonymous No.20708430]

>>20708350
Christ is beyond politics. Russia had great fathers. Putin is not the Orhtodox Church. I hope the Lord gives you wisdom to think harder about important things.

[Anonymous No.20708606]

>>20708430
Putin is not the "Orthodox" Church, but the "Orthodox" Church is certainly Putin.

[Anonymous No.20708658]

>>20708606
You post this image in every thread and still no one cares about your Twitter boyfriend

[Anonymous No.20708805]

>>20708350
>>20708606
The ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople supports vaccine and globalist propaganda.

[Anonymous No.20708821]

>>20708350
See here what Fr. Peter Heers says. He is not even Russian. He is Greek himself.
https://youtu.be/ul1OmFub9jY

[Anonymous No.20708852]

https://youtu.be/FTf_gPrDN-k

[Anonymous No.20708862]

>>20708350
What a ridiculous way of deciding such an important question. God is inviting you to the one true faith, and you respond by saying 'well, it would feel a little uncomfortable.' Faith is not a feeling. It is an action. It is not so much believing in God as it is believing God. So, let go of your fears of being looked at a little funny and believe God. Believe what He has told you, because God can neither deceive nor be deceived. Accept the One True Faith of the Holy Catholic Church, repent of your sins, and be saved. It would be eternally foolish to do anything less.

[Anonymous No.20708871]

Liberal progressive "Christians" will say that any church that is actually conservative and upholds Christian principles must be Russian propaganda.

[Anonymous No.20708887]

>>20708350
>Larping
Anon, who cares if the Catholic Church isn't big in Finland. If anything you would be considered more Catholic than most Catholics in traditional Catholic countries, because you retain the faith despite everyone around you doing otherwise. In this way you would be closer to the first Christians and to Christ.

[Anonymous No.20708905]

>>20705217
Cool we're at the not addressing what I said phase. I'll just post this again:
"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." -Matthew 10:23

>>20705228
>Strong's gives it as meaning "age" aswell.
You finding some other person who agrees with you is not an argument. As I already said, you have to make the other verses sensible, and they don't with this altered meaning. The actual verse being discussed doesn't make sense either, it would be Jesus saying tautologically saying that the last generation will be the last.

>the other verses are the same issue, you're taking that "problem" and decontextualizing verses to agree with it.
>no u
Then explain what I'm "decontextualizing" from Matt. 10:23 (above).


This is how it always goes when qustioning christians about Jesus's failed prophecies. They assert that you're just reading it wrong and give no explanation, no argument, apparently thinking that babbling about nothing and capping off their post with some faggoty snark like
>You just haven’t read the Bible
is enough.

[Anonymous No.20709236]

>>20708862
>>20708887
Thanks anons. I think I'm gonna ask my local catholic church and to talk with priest to decide if catholicism is truly the one true church.

But how do I know it's the "one true church"? It feels like it but I wanna be sure...

[Anonymous No.20709272]

>>20708658
>he responds:
>nobooooody cares!
imbecile
"Orthodox" are amateur af

[Anonymous No.20709284]

Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

[Anonymous No.20709285]

>>20709236
https://youtu.be/bTOkG5G9lUY

[Anonymous No.20709293]

My faith hath abandoned me years ago, anons, am a lost lil helper. Pray for me, please.

[Anonymous No.20709303]

>>20709293
But if you don't have faith how can you believe in the use of prayers?

[Anonymous No.20709530]

>>20708905
>some other person who agrees
>person is the authority on greek translation
"here's this loophole in physics! i don't care if you quote this newton guy or whatever, you're wrong!"

[Anonymous No.20709544]

>>20708905
>You finding some other person who agrees with you is not an argument.
that "other person" is the authority on greek translation.

[Anonymous No.20709634]

>>20709236
In the Catechism of St. Pius X, he poses the question -- how can we be sure that the doctrine which we receive from the Holy Catholic Church is really true?

His answer is this:
We can be certain that the doctrine which we receive from the Holy Catholic Church is really true because Jesus Christ, the divine author of this doctrine, committed it through the Apostles to the Church, which he made the infallible teacher of all men, promiser her his assistance until the end of time.

Further proof of the truth of Christian Doctrine is the eminent sanctity of many who have professed it and who still profess it; the heroic fortitude of the martyrs; its marvelous and rapid propagation in the world; and its perfect preservation throughout so many centuries of ceaseless and varied struggles.

Does God have many churches? No, He established only one Church.

Did God teach many doctrines? No, He taught only one saving doctrine.

Is there more than one salvation? No, there is only one salvation.

Can the word of God fail? No, the word of God cannot fail.

All the protestant groups are in disagreement with each other and even with their founders about what is necessary for salvation. Moreover, they are all established on the idea that somehow the true doctrine was lost and then recovered. Therefore, these groups cannot be the One, True, Saving Church of God.

The Eastern Churches claim an unbroken tradition of doctrine, but this cannot be the case, because they disagree with each other, and they teach things that are forbidden in scripture. For example, divorce is allowed, even though Jesus Christ explicitly teaches that what God has bound no man can unbind. Likewise, the Russians hold than any man can baptize, even if they are not Russian or Greek Orthodox. The Greeks teach that for a man to truly be baptized, he must hold the teachings of the Greek church; if a Catholic joins the Russian Orthodox church, he is not baptized again, but if he joins the Greeks, they say that he was never baptized to begin with and so must be baptized to convert. These teachings are in contradiction with each other regarding what is necessary for salvation. Beyond these points, the Russians and the Greeks have not held a joint council for many hundreds of years. They operate entirely independently of each other. They do not agree on baptism. We must conclude, then, that they are not one Church, but separate churches.

The only Church which fulfils the promises of Christ is the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

[Anonymous No.20709669]

>>20709634
The Roman Catholic church is ruled by Satanic Jesuits and Pope Francis associates with literal Marxists.

[Anonymous No.20709690]

>>20709669
Have you read any of the Church fathers?

[Anonymous No.20709706]

>>20709690
Yes

[Anonymous No.20709710]

>>20709706
Who?

[Anonymous No.20709712]

>>20709710
Saint Maximus the Confessor

[Anonymous No.20709714]

>>20709710
And Saint John Chrysostom

[Anonymous No.20709722]

>>20709712
>>20709714
In what ways do you find the writings of St. Ignatius to contradict the writings of St. Maximus and St. John Chrysostom?

[Anonymous No.20709730]

>>20705169
An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith might be what you want.

[Anonymous No.20709739]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgytXF0SPh0

[Anonymous No.20709746]

>>20709739
Robert Barron believes in evolution, thus denying the Bible.

[Anonymous No.20709766]

what's the best approach to reading the bible as an agnostic? i find the christian approach to it very schizo and not really my thing but i still want to appreciate it for it's wisdom and aesthetic qualities and understand the jewish/christian faith more

[Anonymous No.20709773]

>>20709746
Sucks to be you then because evolution is real. Look at how we can breed different dogs in just a few years.

[Anonymous No.20709781]

>>20709766
what do you find weird about the "Christian approach"?

[Anonymous No.20709794]

When I listen to Orthodox priests I hear real, solid, concrete answers and reasons for the faith.
When I listen to Roman Catholic priests like Robert Barron, what I hear mostly is vague, wishy washy fluff about how the Scripture is "powerful" and "a beautiful look at the human condition" or something like some new agey humanist professor.

[Anonymous No.20709807]

>>20709766
>>20709781
while i curiously wait, read it normally.
my suggested order is Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, John, Epistles, Revelation, OT.
also the tip in >>20704789
anything sounds "weird", it's a misunderstanding.
you might enjoy jumping around the Psalms while reading everything. it's better than just running through 150 in one go. follow the cross references.
you might also really like reading the wisdom books (Job, Ecclesiastes, and Proverbs). careful with Job, it's very complicated.

[Anonymous No.20709820]

>>20709781
the way it tries to center everything around christ, even the old testament which is the product of a different religion, all the shit about predicting the end of the world, the tendency to take everything it says literally and treat it as a complete perfect text. i just don't find it resonates with me as a way to approach a text

[Anonymous No.20709893]

>>20709820
it is about Christ. not the product of a different religion; the two testaments are parts of the same thing.
the issue here is Judaism denies the Messiah. Rabbinic Judaism really is something else, because they made stuff like the Talmud up.

i know i sound weird, but it is all those things.
when you study it enough, you understand the "perfect, sufficient, inerrant" thing. Christ fulfills all the messianic prophecy in the OT (for one, check Daniel 9, two nice resources here >>20702463)

there's no predicting the end of the world, and warning against it is in the Bible (Matthew 24:36; Matthew 24:42; 1 Thessalonians 5; etc).

being hard-headed and quick-tempered about it, and taking everything completely literally (or out of context, as some do with passages about "not judging", among others) is the fault of those people not knowing Scripture.
the one thing i can tell for sure to you is literal is Genesis.

[Anonymous No.20709922]

How can Catholic be pro-choice? Picrel very much related...

[Anonymous No.20709923]

>>20709820
do tell me where you disagree or not understand what i'm saying.
try to word it the best you can, i want to try and clear out any misunderstanding or such.

[Anonymous No.20710383]

>>20709922
Catholicism is a clown show. Don’t expect any righteousness or sense to emerge from the Vatican, especially when it is filled with sex scandals, cooperation with the Rothschilds, doctrinal deviations, flip-flopping and many other abominations before God, such as Pachamama, the inherent idolatry of their idea of the Roman pontiff and a litany of other things. The ecumenism and modernism is only going to get worse. Schism is coming

[Anonymous No.20710456]

>>20709773
You evolutionists are so dumb it hurts. Don’t you know that variation within species and breeding for selected traits has been known about for millennia? This is not Neo-Darwinism. This is just changed within a species, which is undeniable and as plain as day. Your Darwinian mythos of molecules-to-man macroevolution is unbiblical and completely lacks any form of scientific evidence. That’s only the tip of the iceberg. Even your evolutionist idea of a species is retarded. God created things according to kind, any a kind does not even always clearly align with whatever definition of species evolutionists pull out of their ass every other week

EVOLUTIONISTS CONFUSE VARIETIES WITH SPECIES LOL

[Anonymous No.20710465]

I finally started praying daily before bed. Im finding it to be a good experience which helps me in ways i cant quite describe yet. my mind is still very unfocused and its a bit of shit show at times, but its good. one step at a time, I guess.

[Anonymous No.20710467]

>>20699311
Ah, new-ageism applied to the bible, great.

[Anonymous No.20710474]

>>20709794
Orthodox priests are actual Christians and are within the Church founded by Jesus Christ. Thus their answers are imbued with wisdom, truth and patristic foundation. Catholicism is an inherently contradictory and self-refuting tradition of men, founded on the submission to a finite and fallible man rather than the eternal God-man, and thus any look into history will show what an abomination the Roman schismatics are, along with the further heresies that it has indirectly created such as Lutheranism, Calvinism, Anabaptism, and their descendents. Latins don’t have valid sacraments, or baptisms, or even the same God as Orthodox Christians. Read St. Justin Popovich.

[Anonymous No.20710481]

>>20710465
Good for you, anon. Sounds similar to my experience. I find it also helps to do a short prayer upon waking up, and thus both starting and ending the day on the right note.

[Anonymous No.20710514]

>>20710474
What are they doing in this picture? What is this boat?

[Anonymous No.20710582]

>>20710514
It is an idol of Pachamama, a South American ‘earth goddess’. It was present at the Amazon synod a few years ago and was even allowed in the Vatican. They dared to claim it was the Virgin Mary

[Anonymous No.20710596]

>>20710582
RC priests look like gay cucks, whereas Orthodox priests look like cool wizards.

[Anonymous No.20710619]

>>20710596
I’d trust my children with the wizard before pic related

[Anonymous No.20710633]

>>20701478
Read Genesis, Job, Psalms, and Ecclesiastes

[Anonymous No.20710745]

Why do every religions want to kill every other religions that aren't their own?
You all believe in the divine and the spirituality of men, who cares how you interpret the details, who cares is some think Jesus is the son of God or not, can't you just believe in your own truth without bothering others?
I'm not talking about Christianity only but all the religions, pretty sure the constant bickering and wars between them is the principal cause of the rise in atheists nowadays

[Anonymous No.20710888]

>>20710745
>duude just get along even though you don’t agree on morality, or scriptures, or the nature of God, or the fate of the individual after death, or anything else, and even though your eternal salvation and that of every other human being is at stake here!!
You are naive.

[Anonymous No.20710989]

>>20710888
>on morality, or scriptures, or the nature of God, or the fate of the individual after death,
which are all basically the same for every Abrahamic religions

[Anonymous No.20711049]

>>20710888
Every civilisations in history were created around religion, thousands of them
How can you know for sure your interpretation of the divine is the right one and it gives you the right to deny every human civilisations that appeared before and will appear after you ?
philosophers managed to disagree and debate between them without killing each others so you why can't religions do the same?
real reason is because religions were tools to make alliances and conquer territories but it still boggle my mind that there's people that still believe goyims and kouffars and infidels should be eradicated

[Anonymous No.20711098]

>>20700665
I don't think he said this lol

[Anonymous No.20711193]

Change within a species enough, and you have a new species.

[Anonymous No.20711272]

A reminder to all LARPers, cultural Christians, and seekers after aesthetics:
>21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from, ye that work iniquity.
All those who would profess their faith in Christ must truly place their faith in Christ. How can one say that a man is faithful to his father, or his teacher, or his master, and yet not do what those ask of him? But men would proclaim their belief in Jesus and ignore his commandments, because they do not love him, but usurp the name of Christian for their own gain. Therefore abandon your sinful ways and follow and love Jesus.

[Anonymous No.20711388]

>>20709794
What answers and reasons? in my experience the orthodox just have faith and take it as a given everyone else does unless you mean American orthodox

[Anonymous No.20711395]

>>20709893
what not judging?

[Anonymous No.20711930]

>>20711193
>within
You are completely incoherent

[Anonymous No.20711986]

>>20710989
Islamic books of fiqh say that it is a duty for Muslims to wage jihad on unbelievers, and testify that Muhammad was told to fight everyone until they say ‘La ilaha illallah’. It is the duty of the caliph to wage jihad on Christians and Jews every year. Read ‘Reliance of the Traveller’ if you don’t believe me, or any collection of ahadith. The God of Islam is one person, and any sort of comparisons of him with his creation are anathema to Muslims. They are very uncomfortable with the hadith saying that God created man in his image, unlike Christians. I only have to bring up the allowance of polygamy and pedophilia by Islam, as well. The Islamic scripture is a rambling schizophrenic fanfiction of the Bible. Muslims also believe that as long as you believe in tawhid that you will go to heaven eventually too, even if you are a fornicator or a thief. Islam converges into a form of paganism in the Sufi tradition, and is very close to Advaita, complete with annihilation of ego. This is quite a different deity.

Christianity teaches that God is triune, and that we ought to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Fundamentally Christianity is the imitation of the incarnate God-man, instead of following the way of a polygamous Arabian pedo. Christianity is founded on the love of God and neighbor before all sorts of legalism. Christianity is not a worldly religion like Islam. Any website on Islamic questions is filled with bizarre questions about proper beard-length, questions about ritual purity and sex. Christians know that the letter kills, and the spirit gives life. The idea of a God of love that created humanity so that they may participate in his love and goodness is foreign to Islam, which says that God created man just to worship him. A radical Christian is a monk living out the Sermon on the Mount to the best of his ability via God’s grace, while a radical Muslim is chopping off heads of innocents and bombing kuffar in dar al-harb.

[Anonymous No.20711994]

>>20711049
God isn't an idea

[Anonymous No.20711998]

>>20709739
I hate this guy
He says absolutely nothing in any of his videos
>>20709794
It's just Robert Barron who does that

[Anonymous No.20712037]

>>20711049
Other civilizations have been more or less off the mark. Some of them have taught what Jesus said was the core of the Law and the Prophets—do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The ‘golden rule’ has been taught in many civilizations, from pre-Christian Europe, to China, to India. The reason for this is that the law is written on our hearts and in our conscience. This is taught in Romans 2. Even if they have never heard of Jesus Christ, this remains, excusing or accusing them. Many civilizations have philosophized their way to one supreme God, or encountered him in some semblance via mystic experiences. No one was ever completely in the dark. Non-Israelite worshipers of the true God existed, such as Job, and many Gentiles in the NT recognize Christ as the Son of God before the Jews ever do for this exact reason. Christianity is the perfection of the truth, while other religions, while not salvific, are approximations of the truth, mixed with idolatry and corruptions of the truth. Christianity is the truth because its prophecies from the OT have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and quite clearly so. The archeological and historical evidence supports many of the figures and events of the Bible as being historical, even minor kings of Israel and Judah. Even civilizations dismissed as fictional at one point such as the Hittites have been proven to exist beyond a shadow of a doubt. Historically, the evidence points to Christ having risen from the dead. Many books have been written on this. N.T. Wright’s is the best, and is unrefuted. Habermas and Licona are other very qualified authors in this field. Other religion can’t even compete. Jesus can be independently confirmed in prayer too. Ask and you shall receive

[Anonymous No.20712249]

>>20711930
I'm saying that the changes accumulate over time. Eventually the series of small changes adds up to a new species.

[Anonymous No.20712302]

>>20712249
Again, scientists cannot even agree on the definition of species, having self-proposed definitions, the most popular of which is flawed in many ways, and doesn’t even include asexual organisms in its definition. How you define speciation depends on how you define species, and this is far from clear, especially when we can see so-called ‘species’ interbreeding in nature and having viable offspring. This is because it is a concept of men, not God. God created things according to kinds, which is a higher level classification.You are again assuming that varieties are just incipient species. The common Darwinist error. Molecules to man macroevolution is a complete meme. It also relies on the unscientific hypothesis that the past goes back billions of years, which is not supported by the Bible, or by scientific evidence, and the dating of isotopes in rocks has been proven time and time again to be fatally flawed.

PS: Natural selection is a conservative force

[Anonymous No.20712305]

>>20710596
You are aware that the 'cool wizard'-looking priest that you just posted was a closet homosexual, right?
Fuggin' imbeciles and amateurs, "Orthodox."

[Anonymous No.20712325]

>>20712305
If you were a real Christian, you would not care. Have you even read the parable of the prodigal son? After a life of debauchery, God and his angels will celebrate and rejoice when the sinner repents and turns home. Fr. Seraphim Rose repented and turned his life towards God, and yet you can’t even overlook his past sin.

Fr. Seraphim will soon by St. Seraphim. Orthodox Christians know the transformative power of repentance, unlike 4chan LARPers

[Anonymous No.20712327]

>>20712305
Yes but he repented and turned away from that when he became a monk. It was not at all like these kooky liberal priests who say that being a homo is ok. That's not a good comparison.

[Anonymous No.20712414]

>>20712302
You are right that the boundaries between species are not clearly defined, but that does not mean that they are not a useful concept. Also, whether species are well-defined or not has nothing to do really with the validity of evolution via natural selection.

[Anonymous No.20712419]

>>20712414
>if I repeat my assertion it will be true
Trust the science

[Anonymous No.20712424]

>>20712419
What are you trying to say here?

[Anonymous No.20712442]

>>20712424
I’m saying you are enslaved to the lies of godless scientists and blindly follow them

[Anonymous No.20712446]

>greatest work
>delayed human intellectual progress for 1,000 years

[Anonymous No.20712462]

>>20712446
> >delayed human intellectual progress for 1,000 years
Holy based

[Anonymous No.20712463]

>>20712442
Why do you assume that?

[Anonymous No.20712474]

>>20712442
I believe in evolution via natural selection, but I'm more than willing to hear a well-reasoned argument that it doesn't exist. It's just that so far you haven't provided that.

Yes, I do listen to the consensuses of the scientific community on matters that I do not have the time or inclination to learn everything I can about myself. I don't think the scientific institution is perfect or without its flaws, but without a better default to resort to that's what I have to do.

[Anonymous No.20712481]

>>20712474
Why do you trust scientists above God’s Word?

[Anonymous No.20712487]

Darwin's theory essentially holds that every species has variations. Some varieties turn out to be advantageous for competition in survival, breeding more, etc., while other varieties are not. Creatures with advantageous traits live longer, reproduce more and pass on the useful traits. This natural selection caused by environmental pressures causes species to develop in particular directions and, in time, to lead to the development of radically different species. All life is descended from a few primordial forms in a gradually branching and diversifying 'tree of life'.

Some of this is true, some of this is not. This is why evolution is deceptively believable at first glance until one looks into it deeper. Yes, every species has variation within its bounds. This is true, and it can be readily confirmed by the diversity of human beings on this planet, and the diversity of different types of dog breeds, ranging from a Great Dane to a Chihuahua. Darwin believed that changes could be extended without limit. What evolutionists do is rely on an extrapolation that varieties within the species can, over huge periods of time, become separate species in their own right. The question is whether this is true. Many qualified people have denied this:

Luther Burbank (American botanist and horticulturalist responsible for developing more than 800 strains and varieties of plants):
>I know from experience that I can develop a plum half an inch long or two-and-a-half inches long, with every possible length in between, but I am willing to admit that it is hopeless to try to get a plum the size of a small pea, or one as big as a grapefruit, I have roses that bloom pretty steadily for six months of the year, but I have none that will bloom twelve, and I will not have. In short, there are limits to the development possible.
(from Norman Macbeth's Darwin Retried)

Pierre Grassé (French zoologist and author of over 300 publications):
>In spite of the intense pressure generated by artificial selection (eliminating any parent not answering the criteria of choice) over whole millennia, no new species are born. A comparative study of sera, hemoglobins, blood proteins, interfertility, etc., proves that the strains remain within the same specific definition. This is not a matter of opinion or subjective classification, but a measurable reality. The fact is that selection gives tangible form to and gathers together all the varieties a genome is capable of producing, but does not constitute an innovative evolutionary process.
(quoted from Philip Johnson's Darwin on Trial)

CONT.

[Anonymous No.20712489]

>>20712487
Francis Hitching (British author):
>It is now absolutely clear that there are firm natural limits to what can be done. Remarkable achievements can be made by crossbreeding and selection inside the species barrier, or within a larger circle of closely related species, such as wheats. But wheat is still wheat, and not, for instance, grapefruit. Between 1800 and 1878, the sugar content of beets was raised from 6 to 17 per cent. A half century of further breeding failed to make any difference.”
(quoted from Francis Hitching's The Neck of the Giraffe)

Things like bacteria and fruit flies are also ideal for this sort of study in trying to extrapolate varieties into entirely new kinds of organisms, since they reproduce so quickly. Despite cycling through thousands and thousands of generations of these organisms, there has never been any evidence of speciation among them from normal bacteria or normal fruit flies. Sometimes they come out and announce that they have done so, but invariably it is a variety that they selected for and nothing else (the same thing dog breeders do). One would think in a scientific, highly-controlled setting like this, that they would be able to make radical changes quickly. Evidence doesn't support this.

It's also important to point out that instead of natural selection being seen as an innovative force as Darwin had postulated, some biologists, such as proponent of design Edward Blyth (who comes before Darwin, notably), wrote of natural selection as a conservative force, not an innovative one. Natural selection maintained the stability of the species within its environment, it functioned as a sort of quality control, removing defective varieties, while healthier and more well-adapted creatures would survive and reproduce. Essentially, Natural selection helps a species flourish by favoring gene combinations that allow it to adapt to new and changing conditions.

CONT

[Anonymous No.20712490]

>>20712489
It's also important to point out that Darwin, like Lamarck, believed in the inheritance of acquired characteristics. This is of course the idea that a creature will pass on useful adaptations that it made during its own lifetime, often demonstrated in the example of the giraffe stretching its neck to reach leaves, and then having children with slightly longer necks as a result. The inheritance of acquired characteristics was the driving force of Darwin's evolutionary theory. He proposed a theory called pangenesis in order to explain how this worked. External influences from the environment would affect the body, which would pass on influences to the reproductive elements, and the acquired traits would then be passed onto the offspring. The inheritance of acquired characteristics has of course been shown to be false time and time again, and so Darwin has lost the mechanism of innovation in his theory. Darwin had no knowledge of genetics either, which is in many ways not very amenable to his theory. Modern evolutionists of course reject ideas like pangenesis and the inheritance of acquired characteristics, and instead adhere to a modern synthesis of Darwinian evolution and Mendelian genetics, what is called Neo-Darwinism. Neo-Darwinism is a much weaker theory that Darwin's. Darwin's evolutionary mechanism is almost deterministic. Creatures adapt for needed traits and pass them on. In Neo-Darwinism, the mechanism of innovation is random mutations in genes. Since they are random, they may or may not happen, and if they do occur, they probably won't happen when needed. If there is a drought, a hypothetical short-necked ancestor of the giraffe probably won't have the slightly longer neck needed to let it survive at that time (to give one example).

To jump back a bit, Mendel worked out the laws of inheritance. The laws of Mendel are basically the opposite of Darwin's. To compare the difference between the two of them, Mendel's theory is like shuffling a deck of cards. There is a large amount of combinations that can be created, but there are no new cards or information being added. Darwin's theory is that new cards can arise through shuffling them around. This of course is not observed. The 'beneficial mutations' of relied upon as an evolutionary mechanism are elusive as well. Most observed mutations are manifestly harmful or neutral at minimum, or examples like a bacterium becoming resistant to antibiotics, or how the mutation that creates sickle-cell anemia provides some resistance to malaria (but with the offset of chronic health issues and high mortality).

CONT

[Anonymous No.20712494]

>>20712462
You're uncomfortable with progress, I unironically get it. What's your sweet spot era for human (or earlier) existence? Maybe no existence at all?

[Anonymous No.20712496]

>>20712490
The Fossil Record
The issue with the fossil record not supporting evolutionists claims is well-known as well, in that there are no transitional forms as one would expect. Darwin himself said that this is 'the most serious objection which can be urged against the theory'. In Darwin's time geological layers outside of Europe and North America were still largely unexplored. Today paleontologists have carried out excavations from all geological time periods and in all parts of the globe, uncovering thousands of extinct species. Not a single intermediate species or chain of intermediates has ever been found though. In his 'Origin of Species', Darwin realized that the fossil record was the weakest part of his theory, writing:

>Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory.

Swedish botanist Nils Heribert Nilsson summed the issue up in the following way:

>It may be firmly maintained that it is not even possible to make a caricature out of paleobiological facts. The fossil material is now so complete that it has been possible to construct new classes, and the lack of transitional series cannot be explained as due to the scarcity of material. Deficiencies are real. They will never be filled ... The idea of an evolution rests on pure belief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Heribert-Nilsson

Paleotologist and Evolutionist Niles Eldredge said:
>No wonder paleontologists shied away from evolution for so long. It never seemed to happen. Assiduous collecting from cliff faces yields zigzags, minor oscillations, and the very occasional slight accumulation of change - over millions of years, at a rate far too slow to account for all the prodigious change that has occurred in evolutionary history. When we do see the introduction of evolutionary novelty, it usually shows up with a bang, and often no firm evidence that the fossils did not evolve elsewhere! Evolution cannot forever be going on somewhere else. Yet that's how the fossil record has struck many a forlorn paleontologist looking to learn something about evolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niles_Eldredge

CONT

[Anonymous No.20712501]

>>20712496
Paleontologist David Raup said:
>[W]e are about 120 years after Darwin, and knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded ... ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Raup

So what is expected to be seen in the fossil record of millions of years of Earth's history just is not there. Evolutionists are actually a bit concerned why they can't find the sort of gradual but constant change they expect to see in animals. It just isn't there, leading scientists like Stephen Jay Gould to posit even more unscientific and unobservable theories such as punctuated equilibrium, where most species over the duration of their existence exist in stasis with little to no change, and where there is occasional rapid change in isolated groups, or we have Richard Goldschmidt and his 'hopeful monster' monster theory where one species can just magically give birth to a new one all of the sudden. This is used to explain away the gaps in the record, it just happens so fast you'll never find any evidence!

Complexity
From the very start Darwinian theory has been hard-pressed to explain the formation of complex organs such as eyes, or the brain. The general idea is that these organs develop by series of tiny, almost imperceptible steps. With the eye, they push the idea that it began as a tiny light-sensitive spot, but even this depends on a complex nervous system and inexplicable existence of a region of light sensitive cells. So basically they're starting with a simpler eye, but not explaining how it came to be in the first place, not to mention that diagrams trying to explain quietly slip in entirely new features like magic - now there is a cornea and lens! Now there is a retina and an iris! We must keep in mind that this has to be entirely undirected and blind according to Darwinian theory and that every change in series of changes has to be beneficial to the organism according the doctrine of natural selection. But how often do we see mutations that are beneficial? Oftentimes we see abominations and freaks created by random mutations, not helpful new traits. When is the last time you saw a baby with a birth defect having a useful adaptation? These are unscientific theories that can be be verified in the same way that Newton's theories of planetary orbits can. We can just look at see if actually follows according to what he proposed. Not so with evolution. One must accept it on faith. I imagine that the odds of random interactions of chemicals even forming a single cell are astronomically implausible, given that cells themselves are extremely complex organisms, a far cry from the 'protoplasm' of Darwin's day.

CONT

[Anonymous No.20712503]

>>20712501
The Cambrian Explosion

The Cambrian explosion is inconsistent with Darwin's idea of a gradually diversifying tree of life from a few different types of initial life-forms. The Cambrian explosion took place 541 million years ago. In the span of some 5-10 million years, literally 95% of all animal phyla today appeared abruptly in the fossil record. For clarity's sake, a phylum is a major group of life forms that are distinguished by large differences in morphology, body plans, etc. There exist no transitional forms between these phyla, either, unsurprisingly. As time goes, the appearance of new classes (the level below phyla) also dramatically drops off, to the extent where new ones stop appearing for the remaining 500 million years of life history. We started with amazing diversity already, even on old earth assumptions.

Reading:
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
https://back2godhead.com/science/ (non-Christian source, but the information is good)
https://archive.org/details/WilliamA.DembskiJonathanWellsTheDesignOfLifeDiscoveringSignsOfIntelligenceInBiol/mode/2up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaVoGfSSSV8


https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530041-200-how-fudged-embryo-illustrations-led-to-drawn-out-lies/

Fr. Seraphim Rose on the fall of Adan and Eve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJRVJwnhVzI

Fr. Seraphim Rose's book on evolution, creation, young earth, etc:
https://archive.org/details/GenesisCreationAndEarlyManTheOrthodoxChristianVision

END

[Anonymous No.20712505]

>>20712481
The Bible was not meant to be a 100% factual historical account, but to explain the world on a spiritual level.

[Anonymous No.20712516]

>>20712505
The Consensus Patrum says otherwise. Blessed Augustine of Hippo, St. Ephraim the Syrian, St. John Chrysostom, St. Macarius the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Basil the Great, and even modern figures such as St. Theophan the Recluse, St. John of Kronstadt, St. Barsanuphius of Optina, Fr. Seraphim Rose and Fr. Daniel Sysoev have all believed in young earth and creationism.

>b-b-but Origen said!!

[Anonymous No.20712549]

>>20712325
>in a cult with costumes and fake names
>calls others LARPers

[Anonymous No.20712555]

>>20712487
>Luther Burbank
was talking from experience, meaning that he was talking about making changes within one human lifetime. Of course you can't make a plum the size of a pea in a human lifetime.

>>20712489
It is simply not true that artificial speciation has not occurred. In fact it has occurred by accident, as with domesticated sheep and cattle.

>>20712496
Intermediate species are found all the time. Look at the human fossil record. The problem is that when you find a 'missing link' between two species, you go from having one gap in the fossil record to two gaps. Of course the fossil record is not 'finely grained' — we are talking about fragments of bones that have been exposed to the elements for millions of years, so you aren't going to get a perfect picture of every life form that has ever existed.

>>20712501
The original eye, or light sensitive spot as you succinctly put it, does NOT rely on a complex nervous system, but rather a series of biochemical reactions set off by changing configuration of electron double bonds due to high-energy ultraviolet light. The existence of light-sensitivity is not hard to explain, it could easily evolve on accident as many simply molecules display this behavior.

> I imagine that the odds of random interactions of chemicals even forming a single cell are astronomically implausible
The exact origins of life is one of the largest open questions in biology today. It is one of few things not covered by evolution. However, we can imagine very simple cells being formed when some self-replicating material, i.e. RNA, happens to be captured in a bubble from a geothermal vent on the ocean floor. But regardless, the origin of life really has not much to do with natural selection.

>>20712503
I agree with you that Darwin did not perfectly capture a total understanding of evolution. However, advancements since than have been a refinement of his overall elegant theory.

[Anonymous No.20712561]

>>20712516
Why should I believe in any of those people? How do you reconcile 100% historicity with contradictions within the book itself?

[Anonymous No.20712577]

Why wasn't the Book of Enoch included in the canon?

[Anonymous No.20712699]

How many of you are only religious as counter to progressivism?

[Anonymous No.20712719]

>>20712699
I'm not religious at all, I just recognize the bible's importance to my culture.

[Anonymous No.20712730]

>>20712699
I didn't choose religion, religion chose me. No one escapes the will of the Lord.

[Anonymous No.20712886]

>>20709544
It doesn't matter who he is if he can't substantiate it. If you actually look up Strong's given definition:
>From (a presumed derivative of) genos; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons) -- age, generation, nation, time.
>by implication
Which means he's doing what everyone else who invents their own definition is doing, assuming that Jesus can't be wrong, and therefore the verse must not mean what it says. It's just cope over a failed prophecy.

[Anonymous No.20713506]

>>20712699
I don't really counter progressivism, I'm too weak to fight Satan in all its might, I just hope to help my neighbour.

[Anonymous No.20713549]

>>20712577
have you read it? it's kind of boring. the hype about >le nephilim isn't lived up to.
i think people also had a problem with the calendar that takes up an entire book but i don't remember the specifics.

[Anonymous No.20713709]

One of the great proofs of the Bible's authenticity, for me, is its constant willingness to lay bare the depravity of its characters.

Today, as I was catching up on my daily reading of the Bible, I was dumbfounded to find Abraham, once again, willing to sell his wife into adultery to become a cuckold.

It was just eight chapters ago, that Abraham sold his wife into adultery with Pharaoh, and here we see Abraham doing the same thing with Abimelech!

[Anonymous No.20714467]

I don't understand how there are supposed to never be tears again in the New Heaven and the New Earth.

So long as people have free will, they have the capacity to do wrong, and create sorrow. Lucifer and 1/3rd of the angels were able to do wrong, and presumably created sorrow for their brethren, as well as influence Adam and Eve to commit wrong. Adam and Eve were sinless and yet they were able to commit wrong, which has resulted in the ruined world we inhabit today. When we receive new bodies and live in the New Heaven and the New Earth, what's stopping people from committing wrong then, and creating more sorrow? What, is God going to strip us of our ability to do wrong, or immediately strike us down when we do wrong? Then what was the point of having free will?

[Anonymous No.20714540]

>>20696501
Psalm 51 ans 61 are absolutely beautiful

[Anonymous No.20715083]

>>20709794
>reasons for faith.
>reason
>faith
I dunno about that one chief

[Anonymous No.20715115]

>>20697359
cos it’s not lit? take a hint guys, when even pol hates you it’s time to do some self reflection

[Anonymous No.20715120]

>>20706948
This is why you get deleted

[Anonymous No.20715124]

>>20715115
The Bible isn't literature?
Since when?

[Anonymous No.20715182]

>>20715083
What you have no reasons for your faith? Is God's creation that you see daily not a good enough reason?

[Anonymous No.20715275]

>>20715115
how

[Anonymous No.20715407]

>>20715182
Read Kierkegaards Either/Or.
In it he explains in great depth the problem you and I just ran into.
You cannot have a reason for faith, because any reason presupposes what you are trying to prove.
Your post captures the exact nature of this problem. You have presupposed that the world is Gods creation, and tried to prove that this divine creation is justification for faith. How do you know that this world is Gods creation? Faith of course. Most likely in Genesis. Well why do you have faith in Genesis? Faith that there is a God, which led you to Christianity perhaps? Well why do you have……. Do you see where this leads? You cannot give a reason for faith. It is impossible.

[Anonymous No.20715418]

>>20712442
Is the fossil record a lie?

[Anonymous No.20715778]

>>20715418
No, and it confirms young earth and creationism.

[Anonymous No.20715988]

Could someone please give me a list of bible verses which would help give me an idea of what a Church service should look like?
Should it be a formal and serious affair or should people sing out in joy and dance?
Should the Church be as simple as possible with no decorations?

[Anonymous No.20716837]

>>20715407
This is sophistry.
>How do you know that this world is Gods creation? Faith of course.
No, by reasoning.

[Anonymous No.20716850]

https://youtu.be/r73ixUECwHs

[Anonymous No.20716856]

I'm currently reading the Old Testament for the first time, properly.
The curse of Ham might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, or at the very least the biggest overreaction in history.
>22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
>23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
>24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
>25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
What the fuck? He saw his dad naked and had his entire existence, the existences of his children and their children, irreversibly fucked? Don't give me any shit about him raping Noah or bragging about it or whatever, if this is the word of God then that should be mentioned, any other reasoning is pure cope.

[Anonymous No.20716866]

>>20716856
>I'm currently reading the Old Testament for the first time, properly.
What does that mean? You still act like a child in your post.

[Anonymous No.20716893]

>>20716856
"told his two brethren without" is more of an idiom for "made fun of it" (in Hebrew, before you say 'it doesn't say that')
along with the fact he shouldn't have gone into the tent.

[Anonymous No.20716932]

52 Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God endureth continually.

2 The tongue deviseth mischiefs; like a sharp razor, working deceitfully.

3 Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.

4 Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue.

5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah.

6 The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:

7 Lo, this is the man that made not God his strength; but trusted in the abundance of his riches, and strengthened himself in his wickedness.

8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.

9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

[Anonymous No.20717443]

>>20715778
kek

[Anonymous No.20717468]

>>20716893
For thousands of years religious scholars have tried to bend and interpret this passage in a way that makes sense, and this is the best they have come up with. Reminds me of the rest of the Bible.

[Anonymous No.20717496]

>>20716856
congrats on getting to page 2 loser

[Anonymous No.20718369]

Reading Jeremiah today.

[Anonymous No.20718455]

>Ask now, and see:
>Can a male give birth?
>Why then do I see every man
>with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor
>and every face turned pale?
Uhhh, isn't this a bit transphobic?

[Anonymous No.20718472]

>>20718455
Yes. Isn't it great?

[Anonymous No.20718557]

Anyone else think the Old testament and tanakh are really based? I'm starting to think antisemites are just very jealous.

[Anonymous No.20718608]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

[Anonymous No.20718619]

>>20718557
OT is the Tanakh.
just wait til' you see all that prophecy in it be fulfilled in the NT

[Anonymous No.20718656]

>>20718619
>OT is the Tanakh.
Not really, OT also has books such as Tobit and Judith.

[Anonymous No.20718694]

>>20701580
You mean its written that way.

[Anonymous No.20718733]

>>20718557
the judaism of the tanakh is a dead religion. like worshipping apollo. love the tanakh, hate "jews".

[Anonymous No.20718761]

>>20718733
not comparable really. one is jews missing and denying the Messiah, the other is literal idolatry.
as for antisemitic sentiment, see
>>20702505
>>20702542

[Anonymous No.20718766]

>>20718733
Obviously Jews will disagree

[Anonymous No.20718773]

If Muslims and Jews reject the trinity, do they accept the duality of YHWH and the Holy Spirit?

[Anonymous No.20718853]

>>20718766
i dont care what jews think

[Anonymous No.20718886]

>>20696501
Call of the crocodile?

[Anonymous No.20718902]

>>20712699
I mean religion is a good counter but religion as a counter is bad religion and thereby a bad counter

[Anonymous No.20718914]

>>20718773
I believe there is no Holy Spirit in either of them

[Anonymous No.20718925]

>>20718914
How? What was hovering above the waters in Genesis?

[Anonymous No.20718933]

>>20714467
I'm not a theologian, and this is simply my humble opinion: i may be entirely wrong, and I'm open to corrections and criticism.

That being said, a saint lives only God's will and only to worship Him, thank Him and glorify Him, and they also voluntarily renounce to follow desires and self-pleasing actions during their earthly life. When they get to see God and be part of His kingdom, they have already trained themselves to only think about loving God and their neighbors, as they're also filled with the Holy Spirit of God Himself.
And, contrary to Adam, they have experience of evil, and know how to avoid it.

Thinking about what could happen during eternity it"s not easy tho

[Anonymous No.20718934]

>>20696501
I’m not religious, but a few months ago I tried to read the Bible and realized it’s one of the only books that really moves me. In particular Ecclesiastes and the sermon on the mount moved me almost to tears and I didn’t even realize it until I stopped reading. Call me a horrible doubter, because part of me thinks it could be all pseudo-emotion, but a small part of me thinks the Word is actually Holy. Now I believe that anyone on this planet who reads the Word and really tries to understand it will find it striking in their deepest heart and soul. Too many r/atheism redditors claim to have read the Bible, and perhaps they did, but chances are incredibly high they read it with a closed mind, a closed heart, and only read the parts that are “incriminating” or “contradictory”, otherwise not understanding the context and subtext presented in the Scripture.

[Anonymous No.20718946]

>>20714467
>New Heaven and the New Earth.
Is that some kind of protestant heresy?

[Anonymous No.20718953]

>>20718946
Have you read Revelation before?

[Anonymous No.20718960]

>>20718946
Nope, just Isaiah 65:17
>For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[Anonymous No.20718962]

>>20718953
So it's a heretical interpretation of Revelation?

[Anonymous No.20718984]

>>20718962
Exactly what is heretical about the new heaven and new earth as described in the original post, in which the terms are essentially used to refer to heaven in a general sense?

[Anonymous No.20718985]

>>20718960
So just the Second Coming then?

[Anonymous No.20719013]

>>20718984
So you mean why we'll not commit sins in heaven? Because we have been saved if we make it there. Lucifer and his angels were not humans, they were just angels. We were made in the image of Christ, they weren't. And Adam and Eve were just humans like us, why should they not sin just like us? Here we sin because of earthly temptations and the weakness of our flesh.

[Anonymous No.20719117]

I tried to stop watching porn and masturbating all my life and nothing worked. One day I apologized to God with all my heart and begged for help, and the temptation was almost entirely removed. Now I barely get the thought every now and then but I immediately pray and it goes away. If I look back at my life and remember when I watched porn, I feel disguted at myself and just think "God forgive me I don't know what was in my mind." It feels like God wanted to show me a tiny bit of His power that trumps all the psychology, advice, hacks, advice, etc. that I've been trying for so long. It's humbling and now I'm working on other sins such as sloth, and I trust that with God's help I can defeat all my demons, but I need to put in more effort myself too. I'll continue praying and doing my best to serve God and I'm forever grateful for my second chance.

[Anonymous No.20719168]

>>20719117
This is the kind of things that I really love to hear. I'll pray for you too, anon, keep going

[Anonymous No.20719271]

>>20718925
the hebrew word is breath. it's a reference to the babylonian version of the creation myth, where one god breathes into another's mouth and then shoots an arrow into its belly. the hebrew word for the deep is cognate with the name of the latter. the beginning of genesis is a way of saying, "here's what you think you know; here's what really happened"
regardless if you care about that part of it, from theological grounds, his spirit hovering over the waters doesn't in and of itself imply a dual+ nature unless you're already conditioned to think that way.

[Anonymous No.20719479]

>>20699043
read the full sentence, it can be construed as prophecying either the destruction of the temple or the coming of the New Covenant IIRC

[Anonymous No.20719509]

>>20699782
nah, although I do believe that maybe there will be a warning (to mark 2000 years since the passion) and an age of renewed righteousness. But all is in God's hands.

[Anonymous No.20719531]

>>20719479
No, read the full chapter. Jesus is unambiguously talking about the series of events he just finished foretelling.

[Anonymous No.20719616]

>>20700665
t. Marcion

[Anonymous No.20719626]

>>20701120
>he fell for the 'literary quality' meme
the gospel is universal, not solely arabic.

[Anonymous No.20719636]

>>20701170
to humble our pride. also the claim that the apostles were not the authors is ridiculous, a g*rman scholar meme
>>20701478
it wasn't written to entertain you, but to save you

[Anonymous No.20719659]

>>20702472
Do whatever makes you love Christ more. I would watch some videos by Bishop Fulton Sheen, he's bulletproof.

[Anonymous No.20719664]

>>20702485
you can't believe in Christ without supernatural inspiration. God hasn't given this to them, for whatever reason.

[Anonymous No.20719667]

>>20702708
>Rabbinic trickery has retconned the Messiah into two different people, Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David, the suffering Messiah and the king Messiah.

To be fair, this lines up with the Christ who walked the earth and the Christ who shall return at the last judgment.

[Anonymous No.20719678]

>>20703912
The Catholic Church today seems to tend towards the view that those who die before birth are given salvation.

[Anonymous No.20719682]

>>20704048
>You literally have to love black people
Yes, you have to love everyone. It sounds like being racist is more important to you than believing the truth.
>accept millions of refugees or you're literally going against Jesus' word
This isn't necessarily true, but you have to be a Catholic (i.e: you have to have some idea of natural philosophy) to prove it.

[Anonymous No.20719690]

>>20704802
Not always. It may not be His will. I know that sounds unsatisfying, but it's important to realize (part of trusting God is realizing) that God really does know what is best for His creatures. He loves them more than they love themselves. So if He does not free you from some evil, it is only so that you do not fall into a deeper evil.

That said, the prayer of a righteous man is effective. So ask for others to pray for you, and pray fervently. God truly does answer prayers, even for non-spiritual things.

[Anonymous No.20719697]

>>20719690
>>20704802
Also, I have been struggling with a very low mood and a general feeling of stupidity recently, so let's say a prayer for one another.

[Anonymous No.20719702]

>>20705147
that is a very bad reason to become a monk. Monks become monks not because they hate the world, but because they love Christ so much that they want to spend all or most of their time with him. This is a very important distinction.

It's true that contempt of the world is a major theme in classical Christian thought, but this contempt is secondary and comes from the love of Christ. The world is only hated insofar as it distracts a person from Christ.

[Anonymous No.20719708]

>>20705779
It matters what you believe. If you're living without the sacraments, you're living without the fullness of Christ.

[Anonymous No.20719710]

I started reading the Bible for the first time as an agnostic atheist and it's really fun! Even the repetitive shit like the construction of the tabernacle has a pleasant meditative quality.
Are the later parts as fun as the Pentateuch?

[Anonymous No.20719726]

>>20709236
Another argument, from love. The universal Church wants to reunite with the Orthodox. She has a plan, she has eastern Catholic Churches. The Orthodox cannot even be united among themselves, let alone with Rome (whom too often they view with naked contempt). The Catholic Church has its problems, but it remains the One Church of Christ. The eastern Churches are abounding in holiness and sanctity, but they are many. They are divided. And like the other anon said, they have not had an ecumenical council (which was universally received) in over twelve centuries.

All this ought to give one caution about becoming Orthodox.

[Anonymous No.20719741]

>>20709746
read humani generis. The Church accepts evolution. Even Augustine had difficulty interpreting Genesis, it's nothing new.

>>20709766
without faith, I don't think it has much value. there is a fundamental antagonism between the city of God and the city of man. Maybe there is a secular value in proverbs in that it teaches one prudence. But otherwise, these petersonian theories that Christianity is useful because expedient are absurd misreadings and inherently contradictory. Faith is anything but expedient (in a worldly sense).

[Anonymous No.20719745]

>>20709794
Read anything by Bishop Cardinal Sarah. He is a pillar of faith and a true man of Christ. I defy you to find fault in anything he has said.

[Anonymous No.20719749]

>>20705779
God cares.

[Anonymous No.20719754]

>>20709922
people can sin. How can Putin call himself orthodox and then belligerently invade an innocent country? Nevermind that abortion is legal in Russia and vastly higher than european countries or the US. Put not your trust in princes of men. Western atheists are simply less hypocritical and mendacious.

[Anonymous No.20719763]

>>20710465
Mm, excellent.

I sort of envy you, but not in a bad sense. I just find that I get very little from prayer.

I'm at the point where I think I need to go to therapy. Like there's some fundamental issue I have with relating to anybody, not just God, and it's seriously impeding my prayer life.

I spent months in an intensive program where you had to pray for an hour a day along with practice a lot of other ascetic practices and I found it had little effect on me. I felt no closer to God at the end than at the beginning. I'm not trying to discourage you. Quite the opposite. Your testimony encourages me to keep trying. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.20719774]

>>20719710
yes. wait until you get to the wisdom books.
also the NT; there's a bunch of messianic prophecy in the OT, which gets fulfilled.

to poke you a bit, check Daniel 9. that was written 500 years before Christ, and gives out the exact time of His arrival.
something to think about, eh?

[Anonymous No.20719786]

>>20710745
>Why do every religions want to kill every other religions that aren't their own?
Who said that Christians want to kill each other? For centuries we have lived in peace, war for the sake of creed is the exception among Christian brethren.

Islam, on the other hand, is belligerent

[Anonymous No.20719789]

>>20719763
Faith is not a feeling. Those who do the will of God are close to God whether they 'feel it' or not. Many who 'feel' close to God are not. To measure one's progress in the spiritual life, it is best to examine your progress against vice. If what you desire from God is the feeling of being loved, then you are not really loving God, but rather pleasure.

[Anonymous No.20719792]

>>20711049
>How can you know for sure your interpretation of the divine is the right one and it gives you the right to deny every human civilisations that appeared before and will appear after you ?

We believe that our beliefs are true. How do you know that your skepticism isn't just something culturally received and equally false? Indeed, it seems inherently self-defeating.

>>20711986
important post

[Anonymous No.20719800]

>>20719667
yeah, that's why they did it. so they could deny the Messiah.
>>20719271
no it isn't. older rabbis (in the talmud, no less) describe the act of flying as "like a dove". so they do have an idea of the Holy Spirit

[Anonymous No.20719803]

>>20712446
Christ is much more important than science. The knowledge leading to salvation is more important than all worldly knowledge combined. Science is not evil, it just comparatively unimportant.

[Anonymous No.20719806]

>>20719271
Breath as divine is from Sumerians even

[Anonymous No.20719809]

>>20712494
Personally I'd like the spiritual fervor of the medieval period without the bad stuff (superstition, ignorance, lack of technology). I think that's quite possible to achieve.

[Anonymous No.20719815]

>>20712699
probably me, but I'm trying to change that.

>>20714467
all people will enjoy the beatific vision. Once you fully see God, you "can't" turn away, cause you would never want to.

[Anonymous No.20719821]

>>20719726
You want to unite because you know you're in the wrong. You're most welcome to join Christ's Church whenever you want to prioritize theology over politics.

[Anonymous No.20719824]

>>20696501
new thread >>20719820

[Anonymous No.20719833]

>>20715407
Honestly the real reason to explain faith is just to testify. God gave me faith. There's nothing else I can really say. I think the guy you're replying to's approach is somehow wrongheaded and outmoded.

It's all true, but it won't resonate with modern people. "Why should we take your word for it?" Perhaps the proliferation of false religions and heresies makes trust harder to come by.

But the testimony of personal experience is still valid. I once did not believe. Then a Christian came to me, and encouraged me to pray. I was wary, but I tried it. Then one day, God gave me faith. It can happen to you. I testify to it. So please pray for faith. Even if it feels like nothing. What have you got to lose?

[Anonymous No.20719845]

>>20716856
he mocked his father. imagine being saved from an apocalypse because your father was one of the few people who weren't flagrantly sinful. then the first thing you do upon getting out of the boat is mock your father's nakedness to your brothers. This has been the longstanding Jewish/Christian view, that he mocked his own father's nakedness. Just seeing it isn't enough. He should've covered his father's shame, just as we should cover the shame of our brethren instead of delighting in parricidal malice and mockery.

[Anonymous No.20719848]

>>20719833
>I think the guy you're replying to's approach is somehow wrongheaded and outmoded.
Yeah? Why's that?

[Anonymous No.20719851]

>>20718914
not in their theology but insofar as they believe in God for reasons other than pure natural reason, they do so through the action of Christ and the Holy Spirit (even unconsciously)

[Anonymous No.20719858]

>>20718934
Keep reading, anon. God is moving your heart, and He is calling you.

>>20719117
Fantastic. Glory be to God!

[Anonymous No.20719871]

>>20719789
Yes but it's wrong to portray it as if the relationship to God is wholly unfeeling. It begins in fear, then moves to a mercenary love (loving God for the sake of consolation), then finally comes to loving God for his own sake. It's true that it doesn't necessarily need to involve feeling, but we are feeling beings. I just don't believe that God would make us live without any additional happiness on this earth. In fact, scripture itself testifies against that.

You're right that unfettered subjectivism is wrong, but I think that the opposite (pure voluntarism) is wrong, too.

[Anonymous No.20719879]

>>20719871
e.g: see how often the scriptures command us to rejoice

I have never felt able to rejoice in God nor can I construe "rejoice" as referring to anything but an affective state.

[Anonymous No.20719887]

>>20719848
>the proliferation of false religions and heresies makes trust harder to come by.

I just think that blankly saying that the Catholic Church is true doesn't really move people anymore.

[Anonymous No.20719894]

>>20719887
Huh? I only said that it's normal to have reasons for one's faith.

[Anonymous No.20719899]

>>20719821
No. Love seeks unity. The Catholic push for reunion isn't driven by politics or indifferentism, but sound theology. Christ prayed that we may be one, just as He and the Father are one. All Christians should pray and act to effect it.

You say that we're welcome to join the Orthodox, but love doesn't speak that way. Catholics want the Orthodox to join the fold of communion, but the Orthodox are by and large pridefully indifferent to us, whom they see as heretics. Even if we WERE heretics, then you should be evangelizing to us—you should pity us!—not pridefully remaining cooped up in your national Churches (which again, though inarguably holy, remain divided).

[Anonymous No.20719914]

>>20719800
the talmud isn't old

[Anonymous No.20719921]

>>20719894
Yeah I think I responded to the wrong person. Sorry for all the confusion.

You're right. There are reasons for faith, but I think he's right in that it's not a matter of reasoning. Faith only comes by the supernatural action of God, not by reasoning correctly. Reason is involved, and faith doesn't contradict reason (as Kierkegaard or the popular interpretation of Kierkegaard seems to hold), but faith doesn't come from reason (at least not in the everyday sense that we understand it, i.e: discursive reasoning).

[Anonymous No.20719938]

>>20719899
Unity in Truth. The Truth is in the Orthodox Chuch. We have love for Christ first and foremost. All Catholics, protestants, muslims, atheists, buddhists, etc. are most welcome to join us, and they'll always be received with open hearts. Proselytizing, tempting weak people with ecumenism, and perveting the truth is anathematic.

[Anonymous No.20719955]

>>20719800
also if you for some reason care what r*bbis think thats clearly a reference to noah's dove

[Anonymous No.20719958]

>>20719938
Christ commanded his followers to GO and make disciples of all nations, not to passively wait for others to recognize their own inferiority and come to them.

[Anonymous No.20719961]

>>20719914
there is more than one. it still is in there anyhow.
i think it's in the babylonian talmud, but i'm probably wrong

[Anonymous No.20719990]

>>20719961
genesis was written 1000 years before any talmud

[Anonymous No.20719991]

>>20719958
There's probably a Orthodox Church within an hour from you wherever you are. We're trying to reach people, there are lots of resources that people can use, we do what we can. But, yes, we don't do simonies and crusades if that's what you mean.

[Anonymous No.20720047]

>>20719990
yes but that shows how they interpreted it. (i.e. saw the Spirit of God as a dove)

[Anonymous No.20720049]

>>20720047
i see what you mean now but what's your point.

[Anonymous No.20720061]

>>20720049
to show that the stuff about it meaning "breath" some other anon said is nonsense. and that the jews do have an idea of the Holy Spirit. basically another discussion a bit farther up.

[Anonymous No.20720077]

>>20720061
it did mean breath in hebrew. what do rabbis talking 1000 years later have to do with that?

[Anonymous No.20720116]

>>20720077
that they had been studying it for all that time, and agreed on that definition(not to forget the idea is probably even older);
whose opinion i'd take over someone who probably doesn't even speak Hebrew, and is saying it doesn't mean what it is.

[Anonymous No.20720164]

>>20720116
im not telling you some freak minority theory anon. that's what the word meant.

[Anonymous No.20720190]

>>20720164
and it means spirit in context.

the part i take issue with is the "it's this pagan myth" nonsense that comes after it.

[Anonymous No.20720196]

>>20720190
that sucks

[Anonymous No.20720231]

>>20720196
also, just to prove my point
>https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7307.htm

[Anonymous No.20720269]

>>20720231
yes, it has been translated as spirit by people living post-hellenization. if it hadn't been this discussion wouldn't be happening to begin with. jews living before then didn't have a concept of a spirit at all.

[Anonymous No.20720289]

>>20720269
they did. the word as "breath" makes no sense in most of the passages it is translated properly as spirit.
also why would the rabbis agree it is spirit and define that hovering, if it weren't proper?
we're talking babylonian exile, very far from the greeks you imply.

[Anonymous No.20720328]

>>20720289
it means spirit insomuch as breath was their closest analogue to a spirit or soul. it's different from the idea of a spirit that can exist separately from your body. when god makes adam he breathes into his nostrils.
>also why would the rabbis agree it is spirit and define that hovering, if it weren't proper?
they lived 1000 years after genesis was written
>we're talking babylonian exile
the jerusalem talmud was written in the 4th century

[Anonymous No.20720357]

>>20720328
>they lived X years after
doesn't change the meaning.
>jerusalem talmud
there are several talmuds.

>closest to soul
Genesis 7:22 then; there's both the word for breath and spirit in it. how would you translate it as "breath" here? "everything that had the breath of breath in its nostrils"?

[Anonymous No.20720365]

>>20720328
>>20720357
also the idea of the Spirit of God is wholly different from a human spirit idea. the Spirit of God dwelled in the kings and judges of Israel, for example.

[Anonymous No.20720413]

>>20720328
lastly, if they didn't have an idea of it, what did David mean in Psalm 51:11
>Cast me not away from Your presence; take not Your Holy Spirit from me.
it's the same word used for spirit in Genesis, by the way.

[Anonymous No.20720526]

>>20720357
>there are several talmuds
elaborate on this
>7:22
נִשְׁמַת־ר֨וּחַ - Nishmat-ruach
these are both words for breath. so yes, if you wanted to be excessively literal, you could translate it as breath of breath. there's your lifebreath, that which differentiates you from a rock or a plant, and there's the physical movement of air. the lifebreath probably sounds a lot like a spirit or soul to you with modern ears but jews believed that it stopped when you died and had no conception of it existing apart from you.
you know the english word "spirit" also comes from a word meaning breath?
>>20720413
don't let me die

[Anonymous No.20720548]

>>20720526
>elaborate
there's the Jerusalem talmud and the babylonian.

>don't let me die
1 Samuel 16:14
>After the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, a spirit of distress from the LORD began to torment him.
the spirit (same word again) left, and Saul didn't die.
David is praying for God to not deny His presence to him.

[Anonymous No.20720666]

>>20720548
the jerusalem talmud was written in the 4th century and the babylonian talmud was written later.
>samuel
when the spirit of god rushes upon him in the previous verse, is it possessing him like a ghost? or does it mean something more intangible

[Anonymous No.20720689]

>>20720666
came to dwell within him. no proper way to really explain that.
to draw a parallel, the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in the disciples on Pentecost.
basically, God is "with them" if i had to put it into words.

[Anonymous No.20720697]

>>20720689
well, not really a parallel, but you get it.