/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.20681793]

Trajan's wife's son edition
Prius fīlum: >>20643001

Latin/Greek MEGA: https://mega(dot)nz/#F!9o4QEIIK!P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

ANE MEGA: https://mega(dot)nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

[Anonymous No.20681871]

>>20681300
Tough to find. Most works are not fully commentated. There are some good partial ones though.
Oxford had a 'Red' series for a few books with detailed commentary and definitions for odd words and phrases. I have the Catullus one, it is excellent but does not cover all his poems. If I had to guess I'd say 70-80%, all of the most famous except for the dirty ones. Here is a blurb about them from another book. They can probably be found on abebooks quite easily.
>in verse, R.G. Austin on four books of Virgil's "Aeneid" and C.J. Fordyce on "Catullus'; in prose, Austin on Cicero's "Pro Caelio", R.G. Nisbet on Cicero's "De Domo" and R.G.M. Nisbet on Cicero's "In Pisonem". The maroon boards used for these books (hence "Oxford Reds") gave them the added impact of a 'series
Additionally check out Pharr's excellent Aeneid Books 1-6. All the frequently used words are covered in a special section in the back and infrequently used words are glossed on the page. I used this in my first course after textbooks and it was a godsend. Only the first half of the Aeneid but if you work your way through all 6 books you will be well prepared to tackle the rest. I will be adding this to the Mega soon.
Also from Oxford (Clarendon Press) there is Suetonius' De Grammaticis et Rhetoribus, edited and translated by Robert A. Kaster. Great book including the Latin text, English translation and a few hundred pages of commentary and essays. Probably the best book available on this work.
Frank Frost Abbott's 'Selected Letters of Cicero' covers a good selection with thorough definitions and comments throughout. I have this as well and highly recommend it.
For Caesar check out Dickinson College Commentaries website. This is free and readily available. Pic related is from there. vocab, notes, maps, videos, audio and more
From there you'll have to do some digging. Often commentated volumes only cover partial texts. They tend to be works of passion so are found among a variety of publishers.

[Anonymous No.20681872]

ΓΙΜΙ

[Anonymous No.20681942]

>>20681793
𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌰𐌽𐍃, 𐍈𐌰𐍃 𐌷𐌴𐍂?

[Anonymous No.20682039]

Latin has no native alternative to words like theologica. Greek chads wins again.

[Anonymous No.20682086]

>>20682039
why think up new words when you can have a greek slave do the thinking for you

[Anonymous No.20682109]

>>20682039
deoverbiba :DDDD

[Anonymous No.20682112]

>>20682086
>why think
Latin "people"

[Anonymous No.20682129]

>>20682112
too pious to doubt or even ponder the gods rationally
mos maiorum and cultus deorum, not greek poofery, ok? praise mars, simpel as

[Anonymous No.20682246]

>>20681781
is the LLPSI read along anon still lurking here?
I am, however I've lost motivation for various reasons.

The main reason is that I've lost confidence in the read along format for LLPSI.
Everyone learns at different speeds, everyone re-reads chapters (and they re-read in different ways). When you read a chapter, you may think you understood everything but upon re-reading it again you realize you missed some things (and sometimes that realization comes 10 chapter down the line when you realize you missed something and have to re-read).

Then there's the fact that most people reading LLPSI will be absolute beginners, this is their first experience in latin as a hobby therefore their own motivations are shaky. It's unlikely they will have the drive to read through the whole book in one go, they may read it for a month and then take 6 months off before coming back, that's just the nature of being new to a hobby, any hobby.

The whole book is just a bit messy in that regard, It's not something you can just read through once without stopping so I don't think a read along for it will ever be successful. (unless maybe if it's targetted towards people like me who are already halfway through the book and want to go through it again more thoroughly)

In the meantime however I've been making my way through the book.
During the read along I was on chapter 25 personally but now I am on chapter 32. If I ever do the read along again.. at the very least I would like to have already reached the end of the book myself first.

But since I have stopped any immediate plans to do the read along, if anyone else wishes to give it a go, feel free! It's yours to play around with.

[Anonymous No.20682247]

>finally able to reproduce from the master case chart for greek articles and nouns
Holy shit I was stuck for weeks. No way around it but writing it over and over until it came on its own. Anyone else working through Mounce?

[Anonymous No.20682449]

Servus, ipso ante dominum iacto, eum orat ut coitum cum eo habeat.

[Anonymous No.20682457]

>"redite" is latin for "go back"

[Anonymous No.20682779]

Redpill me on Sanskrit. Is it a good idea to learn a fair amount of Hindi beforehand?

[Anonymous No.20682792]

>>20682246
Good to hear from you. I've been thinking of doing a read-along of either Athenaze or Reading Greek mimicking your style.
The amount of greekposters here is unfortunate so maybe something like that would motivate people to study the other half of classics. Your experience suggests otherwise but we'll see...

[Anonymous No.20682839]

>>20682129
>several gods

[Anonymous No.20683247]

>>20681942
Based Gothanon

[Anonymous No.20683255]

>>20682779
>>20682779
Not really, unless you are using a Hindi textbook. Actually the best language to learn before Sanskrit is Greek by all accounts I've heard.

[Anonymous No.20683263]

>>20682779
No. If you are well-versed in Greek and Latin - as in, you can read Lysias, Plato, Cicero and Vergil with ease - you're ready. First read through the comparative grammars of Bopp and Bruggerman. Then work through the Sanskrit primer by Stenzler using the grammar + dictionary of indo-aryan roots by Mayrhofer. You'll be well-equipped to start with shorter original texts like Kalidasa's Megaduta if you can finish the primer. Bona fortuna.

[Anonymous No.20683275]

>>20683263
Very helpful. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.20683306]

>>20683275
If you happen to know German, there are plenty of other resources I could list

[Anonymous No.20683333]

>>20683306
Please do.

[Anonymous No.20683405]

>>20682246
Were your screenshots just from the llpsi in the mega? I've been downloading them all as you post them :(

[Anonymous No.20683444]

>>20683405
Yes, they're just screenshots from the PDF I found in the mega.
I edited them slightly to remove any duplicate pages for posting (ie the last page from the previous chapter being in the same screenshot as the first page of the next chapter).
But it's not really necessary

[Anonymous No.20683654]

holy shit I just spotted a 3rd person plural imperative for the first time in the wild (Herodotus). So confusing at first since it looks like a participle:
>κάτισον τῶν δορυφόρων ἐπὶ πάσῃσι τῇσι πύλῃσι φυλάκους, οἳ λεγόντων πρὸς τοὺς ἐκφέροντας τὰ χρήματα ἀπαιρεόμενοι ὡς σφέα ἀναγκαίως ἔχει δεκατευθῆναι τῷ Διί.
>λεγόντων

[Anonymous No.20683701]

>>20683654
hell yeah dude

[Anonymous No.20683710]

is there an alternative to LLPSI for self-studying?

I just find it doesn't really suit me. I feel like I'm trying to learn the language on shifting sands, and would rather be firmly stood on the solid foundations of grammar before going into extensive reading.

[Anonymous No.20683767]

>>20683710
Latin: An Intensive Course, get the book or some pdf then follow the tutorial some guy made for the entire book on youtube like 8 years ago. I get the shifting sands thing though, like just fucking give me all the cases and declensions in the intro so I can at least recognise what could be going on in a sentence.

[Anonymous No.20683927]

>>20683654
>κάτισον
is it normal for Ionic(?) forms to drop aspiration here? took me a moment to understand it's Attic κάθισον

[Anonymous No.20684102]

>>20683927
yes. with compound verbs they drop the aspiration, like ἀπικνέομαι, καταιρέω, μετίημι, ... I don't know to what extent it actually made a difference in pronunciation or if they just felt like writing it like this. The difference in the Ionic spelling is actually the least weird thing that one encounters when reading Herodotus. There's some weird stuff he sometimes does with grammar and a lot of idioms.

[Anonymous No.20684141]

>>20683767
>follow the tutorial some guy made for the entire book on youtube like 8 years ago.
Please link, I have the book and was not away anyone made a tutorial. Amabo te <3

[Anonymous No.20684151]

>>20683710
Do Wheelocks and LLPSI at the same time. That might help. Another thing you can do is memorize the major paradigms before using LLPSI.

[Anonymous No.20684241]

>>20684141
Just search "Latin an intensive course" on youtube and it should come up in playlists

[Anonymous No.20684907]

Is learning hebrew first the best method for learning classical syriac?

[Anonymous No.20684918]

>>20684907
Yeah, Hebrew, then Aramaic, then Syriac.

[Anonymous No.20685625]

>>20681785
I am Ethiopianon. My plan is to translate texts and to write articles and books in English, which I'd post on my website for people to read freely. I'm also doing some archiving, which should broaden interest and give me something less cerebral to do sometimes. I think crowd-funding is the way of the future, since publishing is pozzed and piracy is prevalent. Perhaps, I am wrong about crowd-funding and publishing. Maybe, I'm just too early. Nonetheless, this is it. There are no other options for me. Things don't look too promising, but I'm going to have hold the course.

[Anonymous No.20685642]

>>20684907
>>20684918
>Yeah, Hebrew, then Aramaic, then Syriac.
This is my path, but there are many others who just learn Syriac, and lots of textbooks and classes don't count on prior knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic. If you have no interest in Hebrew and Jewish Aramaic, then don't bother learning them. Even so, I really enjoyed learning Hebrew and Aramaic, and I highly recommend learning them for their own sake.

[Anonymous No.20685766]

>>20685625
At least you have a goal in mind and a passion for the subject. Godspeed and good luck.

[Anonymous No.20686088]

>>20684907
No. If you don’t need to learn Hebrew, then just learn Syriac from scratch.

[Anonymous No.20686378]

How hard is Old English to learn to read fluently?
Should I learn German first?

[Anonymous No.20686399]

>>20682779
It is better the other way around.
If you first learn Sanskrit, hindi will be easy.

[Anonymous No.20686407]

>>20686378
It's quite easy, no need to learn German at all, it is English after all. I'm using "Complete Old English" and it's been really easy so far, it focuses on being able to read at first and Grammar is more dripped in more than anything. Old English also makes Old Norse quite approachable and possibly Old Gothic. It's a nice key to a lot of doors.

[Anonymous No.20686410]

>>20686407
Do you read much text each chapter with Complete Old English? Both authentic and modern text?

[Anonymous No.20686417]

>>20686410
Every unit is based around a legit Anglo-Saxon text, be it poetry, chronicle etc and with that you'll get basically a lot of historical background for events, a vocabulary builder of a bunch of words and then you'll have something introduced like present tense. With that it comes with audio of somebody reading out the Old English passages and then translating them after (although many are translated in the book already) I like it because the learning has a lot passive features to it, you pick things up without trying more than cramming.

[Anonymous No.20686443]

Spem in alium

[Anonymous No.20686623]

>>20681871
Thanks for the write up anon, I've saved it

[Anonymous No.20687369]

>>20686623
No problem
One more tip, trawl through second hand shops particularly near universities. You can find all sorts of gems hidden there. Thumb through anything with a title that interests you especially older books. Sometimes you'll be surprised at what has commentary or Latin.

[Anonymous No.20687392]

Nobody here for Classical Chinese? Guess nobody wants to lie beneath the heavens and feel the pulse of the Tao.

[Anonymous No.20687427]

>>20687392
Noy great. You cant read the language with phonetics. Its just symbols.

[Anonymous No.20687452]

>>20687427
I would disagree: like other classical languages, it simply has different pronunciation schemes that one can juggle.
Korean or Japanese pronunciation is sufficient to get a sense of the text, or maybe more if it's a Classical Chinese text written in Japan or Korea (of which there are many.)
Mandarin pronunciation gets one far closer, and most rhymes even in the Book of Odes still work. Cantonese and Min-Nan pronunciation get one closer still.

[Anonymous No.20688304]

bump

[Anonymous No.20688384]

>>20686378
German would certainly make it easier but no I don't think it's necessary. Even though old English is inflected you wouldn't be too far off saying it's middle English with different pronunciation and Germanic words ciphered for French ones, the underlying grammar is surprisingly similar.

I tapped out after learning it for a year getting through Beowulf, though

[Anonymous No.20688514]

>>20688384
>I tapped out after learning it for a year getting through Beowulf, though
Does that mean you reached your goal of reading Beowulf, or not? The vocabulary needed for Beowulf should be rather small, since the work is so short, no?

[Anonymous No.20688668]

>>20688514
Yeah I got through it, the vocabulary isn't huge it's just time consuming. Well worth the time put in though

[Anonymous No.20688847]

What is the oldest IE language that survives into the first millennium BC (something we have written records for)? What IE language today has the least amount of external influence?

[Anonymous No.20688875]

>>20688847
>What is the oldest IE language that survives into the first millennium BC
not sure what you are asking
maybe the most divergent, that'd be Anatolian branches, recorded as early as early second millennium BC and in use until the Roman era
today, maybe Baltic languages due to small populations generally surrounded by other IE speakers

[Anonymous No.20688909]

>>20688875
I'm not quite sure what I was asking too. Basically, what language exemplifies pic rel the best? What ancient language and what modern language bears the greatest resemblance to what scholars believe PIE to be?

[Anonymous No.20688940]

Should I learn proto Indo european to help me learn Latin?? I'd like to know Latin but I'm an autistic retard who for some reason wants to become somewhat fluent in another language purely for it's utility in making learning Latin marginally easier :/

[Anonymous No.20689049]

>>20683710
>is there an alternative to LLPSI for self-studying?
Is this a shitpost? You think for over a thousand years people were just helpless to learn Classical Latin until LLPSI came along to enlighten the world? Nobody outside of new-age 'natural method' cultists has even heard of LLPSI, it's the Latin equivalent of AJATT

[Anonymous No.20689078]

>>20688940
This is a stupid shit post.

[Anonymous No.20689115]

>>20688909
I guess the two typical answers are going to be Sanskrit and Lithuanian respectively.

[Anonymous No.20689164]

>>20688940
No. You'll never learn IE to fluency in any meaningful sense.
If you just have to learn another language that makes Latin easier, take your pick from Italian or Spanish, but learning a Romance language and Latin at the same time will probably be confusing.
Or pick Greek, classical Latin ended up with many cognates.

[Anonymous No.20689278]

>>20684918
Something I have always been confused about: is Imperial Aramaic really that different from Classical Syriac? I always assumed they were like Attic and Koine Greek where the differences are so trivial it's not even worth approaching them separately

[Anonymous No.20689374]

>>20688940
Is this a joke?

[Anonymous No.20689438]

>>20681793
Is learning Latin good?

[Anonymous No.20689465]

>>20689438
I'm enjoying it

[Anonymous No.20689556]

What the FUCK is this?

[Anonymous No.20689570]

>>20689556
>in nova fart animus

[Anonymous No.20689594]

>>20688940
just in case your serious,
you can never learn PIE. it's a constantly changing reconstruction and approximation.
Never learn a language to learn a different language.
if your goal is to learn latin, learn latin.

[Anonymous No.20689604]

>>20682457
i appreciate you anon

[Anonymous No.20689669]

>>20689556
>Nested hyperbatons

[Anonymous No.20689676]

>>20689556
don't worry anon, you'll get use to it.

[Anonymous No.20690046]

Some context: I've done something terrible to someone I loved. Nothing illegal, and nothing hyper-traumatic, but awful enough that I feel forever dirty. She'll forget about it and me in time: I hope sooner than later for her sake. I have to keep living on as this person.
Working on a series of poems on this theme. Here is my intro/"justification":


I sung loud these dirges more turgid than turgid
To confess a crime that can never be purgèd.

Poems by predators? —When have they not been?
Why make the matter worse? —Singers are such.
Unsayable! —So you would rather the sin?
How praisable! —Calm down now, that's a bit much.

Based? —No, never, and into the pit with you.
A defense? —For this soul no defense will do.
Debased? —But debasement's a godly affliction.
Your conscience? —Lies much less than reason's sweet fiction.

Inhibited! —Too bad I can't draw a picture.
Dangerous! —Who reads will have no nice impression.
Derivative! —Build your shop without its fixtures.
From the wrong view! —Aha! Now at last a good question.

To those who would judge that the wrong one here’s weeping:
That’s right; I agree; that’s the reason I’m speaking.
Let song be my witnesses: here I stand guilty.
Let guilt be my albatross, lighthouse, and destiny.

I am H. M., howling music in harmony
With everyone else who would justly wish harm on me.
I hoist high and mightily this lightest mantle
And holler misgivings out when it’s mishandled.

Get up, you anapests, dactyls, and amphibrachs,
At my command fall in form and in time,
To abuse these innocent feminine rhymes:
March in good posture now out of my barracks.

They speed into battle in slim single file;
Their bayonets sway for a cause they detest.
The censorious chuckle, the moralists smile:
This enemy combats this enemy best.

In such a battle, the price of their victory
Is very agreeable: either it's them or me.
So much had they hoped for, always from the start:
So much does art foster, and long is this art!

If there's a better way out, then it's you I implore:
Hypocrite reader: you’ve heard this before!

[Anonymous No.20690156]

>>20689556
Wait til you read Cicero

[Anonymous No.20690370]

>>20689278
>is Imperial Aramaic really that different from Classical Syriac?
Yes. Imperial Aramaic is from the Iron Age BCE and Syriac is from late antiquity/early medieval age. Also, Syriac is a specific Antioch-an dialect.

[Anonymous No.20690371]

>>20689049
>You think for over a thousand years people were just helpless to learn Classical Latin until LLPSI
That's exactly what these people think. There's really no point in trying to convince them otherwise.

[Anonymous No.20690809]

>>20689374
Yes, he is most certainly joking. He is parodying the people who want to learn easy and approachable languages to learn other easy, approachable languages, people who want to learn Italian to learn Latin or vice versa. Learning one language to learn another only makes sense if the languages you know do not have adequate resources, such as textbooks and dictionaries, to help you comprehend your target language. It makes sense to learn Aramaic to learn Mandaic or to learn English to learn Greek, as was the case for my Turkish classmate. Do not, under any circumstances, learn Italian so that you can read Italian Athenaze.

[Anonymous No.20691012]

I feel rather alienated from my peers and professors in Classics. I am much more interested in fringe texts than they are. I lament the loss of texts more than they do. I don't care about gender and sexuality and minorities, but they do. I think I am more interested in quantifying topics than others. I am far more forgiving with Schliemann, I don't think that most artifacts should be repatriated since most were acquired completely legitimately, and I am not bothered by colonialism.
I'm just venting. I've been a strange person all my life, and even in my discipline of Classics, which is a bit unusual, I am still a weirdo.

[Anonymous No.20691017]

Satem = 4chan
Centum = reddit
/clg/ is all in agreement on this right?

[Anonymous No.20691048]

>>20691012
Really?
Forgive my ignorance but I would have thought people studying the classics today would only be interested in fringe texts, I doubt you're going to get anywhere by publishing papers on Cicero or Caesar these days and so wouldn't it be more about translating the odd bit of graffiti or inscriptions? Or perhaps a text which you could claim has been underappreciated
Also I definitely can see a lot of fringe texts come into greater prominence due to a focus on gender

[Anonymous No.20691054]

>>20691012
You're not weird. Everyone around you is in a religious cult.

[Anonymous No.20691062]

>>20691054
does a name for that cult exist? postmodernity? neomarxism?

[Anonymous No.20691070]

>>20691062
new left maybe?
>Some who self-identified as "New Left"[5] rejected involvement with the labor movement and Marxism's historical theory of class struggle,[6]

[Anonymous No.20691083]

>>20691048
Nope. I'm among the few who is interested in manuscripts, pseudepigrapha, etc. Professors are not incentivized at all to publish manuscripts. I have been that 100+ years ago, you could simply transcribe a text and get it published. This publication would give them credit towards promotion and tenure. Now, you have to find tons of letters, books, fragments, whatever; transcribe them; translate them; write a massive commentary, making sure it has a suitably progressive angle; and find someone who will publish it. I've been told by multiple people that the only people who do this now are very dedicated, tenured professors. It is much easier to write books and articles about extremely niche aspects of overanalyzed authors, preferably something to do with critical theory or some other SJW bullshit.
When I've brought up my interest in manuscripts and such to all but one of my professors, they all raise an eyebrow, say something that isn't meant to be discouraging, and wish me luck.

[Anonymous No.20691096]

reminder pic related was published in 1998 and things have only gotten worse

[Anonymous No.20691103]

How much time do you spend on average each week studying or reading a classical language?

[Anonymous No.20691108]

>>20691103
9-10 hours only

[Anonymous No.20691193]

Anyone here tried Biblical Hebrew? How hard is it compared to, say, Koine or Latin?

[Anonymous No.20691204]

Which 'old' language which would get posted here without criticism has the smallest vocabulary?

[Anonymous No.20691238]

>>20691204
Some anon mentioned Gothic only having like 3000 unique words so maybe that.

[Anonymous No.20691263]

>>20691017
>le 4chan vs reddit

[Anonymous No.20691510]

>>20691193
I'm dabbling in it currently. Comparing it with Latin or any other language I know is hard, but I'll try:

Grammatically, if you just look at the sizes of the declension/conjugation tables, Latin is much more complex than Hebrew. There's not even a subjunctive, for example!
Binyanim, while making for impressive tables, is something that makes the language ultimately easier, because in IE languages, you'd have to learn different word stems instead: If "write", "engrave", "dictate" could be derived from a common root, English would have impressive tables as well.
What makes BH harder is that, unless you speak some Semitic language, you'll know nearly zero cognates, so you'll have to put work in for every single root you add to your vocabulary.

But one reason why it's hard to compare is external to the languages: Latin learners will want to read Cicero, Hebrew learners will want to read the Bible. And, ignoring the poetic books for now, there's just a huge gap in how fancy these texts are.
LLPSI part 1 gives you almost 2000 words, adequate for starting to tackle easy authentic Latin. But if you know the 2000 most frequent Hebrew words, you're getting close to the endgame, because the remainder occurs 10 times or fewer in the Bible.
(This point is moot if you only learn Latin to read the Vulgate, of course.)

So, what I'm trying to say: if you were Chinese with no knowledge of English, but with access to Chinese resources for both Latin and Biblical Hebrew, then Biblical Hebrew would be far easier. But you're probably a native speaker of some European language, so you're very much not starting from zero in Latin.

t. a beginner in Hebrew. If Ethiopianon replies, listen to him instead.

[Anonymous No.20691519]

>>20691204
>>20691238
Some time ago someone mentioned an unsourced claim from German Wikipedia that Warring States period Classical Chinese only has 2000-3000 lexemes, but the thread's resident Chinese poster was skeptical.

[Anonymous No.20691535]

>>20691510
>you'll know nearly zero cognates, so you'll have to put work in for every single root you add to your vocabulary.

not that anon but you aren't kidding. I'm mostly through LLPSI pars I while also reading Wheelock, and it feels like a third of my progress is due to all the baggage I bring already knowing English. Hell even reading english books looking up new words or even words I know just to see how they derive from Latin has helped out. Would be a daunting task starting from scratch essentially

[Anonymous No.20691596]

Is Syra a Jew?

[Anonymous No.20691600]

>>20691012
It must be rough to be run a classics department. I very much doubt they want to pump out articles about analysing Cicero with queer theory but what choice do they have? They have suffered decade after decade decline in enrollment/funding/relevance they got no choice to play the leftist academia game.

[Anonymous No.20691947]

>>20691012
>>20691083
(1/2)
Don't worry too much anon, you're quite normal.
The Classics as a discipline is now run by the same exact kind of people running other pozzed departments like history, psychology, sociology, etc.
All the old vanguard are slowly retiring and it's only going to get worse.
I realized this while in undergrad and decided I would rather go work at my father's company than continue my study of classics and fight against the grain for the rest of my life.
Perhaps you're stronger willed than me, and you're confident that you can help steer classics back in the right direction, but you are in the minority, and it's an up hill battle, and the monetary reward is slimmer than what the same herculean effort and dedication would get you in any industry. But you would help save the classics and thereby help steer our culture in the right direction.
When I decided to not pursue the Classics in graduate school, I felt I sold my soul for money, but now I don't regret it

Don't lose all hope though. I did find like minded people who were also studying Classics, but we were all undergraduates, with one graduate student. All the other graduate students and especially the professors were exactly how you described it.
One thing you'll realize though, or at least it was true for me and my friend group, is we were consistently the best students in department. We were constantly showered in scholarships and opportunities to go on archaeology trips. But we also knew our material. I could go into our department reading room, take a random OCT off the self, flip to a random page, and read/translate it. My graduate student friend in particular was starting an extremely impressive career in classical archaeology, and easily the best in the department.
The other undergraduate and graduate students who were temperamentally most similar to the professors were, frankly, losers. Sure, they may have written more pages in their essays/theses but the quality (and importance in the case of graduate students) of their work was always blown out of the water by my friend group.
The point is not that my friends and I were amazing and cool, but that you can still succeed even if you don't share the same temperament as your professors, as long as you produce quality work. Another important point is that you probably do have one or two like minded people in your department that you just haven't met yet. For me, my classics friend group were all men and one woman. The trick is to make friends with everyone, no matter how they are temperamentally. Be genuine friends with them first, and then start throwing out very very soft redpills and see who bites. Once you find the people who are most similar to you in thinking (i found it was mainly along political lines), or at least people who won't think less of you for what you think, make them your close friends, but keep your friendships with everyone else.

[Anonymous No.20691953]

>>20691012
>>20691083
>>20691947 (2/3) (I actually wrote more than I thought)

In any sphere you enter, friendships are one of your most important assets. Yet be picky with who your closest friends are. "You are the average of your friend group" is true. Don't be close friends with the losers.

One advantage you have over others, from the brief post you've written is that your interested in the uncharted waters of the Classics. If you pursue that, you will certainly find far more topics where you can make original research contributions, rather than your peers who are writing the 100,000th analysis of Cicero's rhetoric in Pro Milone or 10,000th analysis of sexuality in Plato's Symposium.
My undergraduate thesis ( which I admit I didn't really care about because I already knew when I was writing it that I was never going to grad school) actually would have benefited immensely if I actually bit the bullet and wrote up a program that analysed Virgil's work for how repetitious his diction was in any given number of lines (I know how to program and actually was majoring in math at the same time and already knew quite a lot about statistical analysis). I never did because I was over it all by the end, but there is plenty of real research to be done using quantitative analysis. You're biggest problem is selling your ideas and their significance.

[Anonymous No.20691957]

>>20691012
>>20691083
>>20691953 (2/3) (I actually wrote more than I thought)

Therefore, LEARN TO PROGRAM.
Genuinely, buy a laptop, install Arch Linux, and learn everything you can about computers. Installing arch linux will force you to learn a lot about computers very quickly, but once you get your system running, you will genuinely know a lot about how it all works. You'll want to set aside two days at least (make a weekend out of it) to install arch and get it to where you want. There's plenty of resources out their for you to learn it, so don't be intimidated. You should look into the Unix philosophy and into FOSS also. Please, don't install Microsoft word, or Zoom, or any other proprietary software on you arch computer. Keep your old laptop for that crap. I just used my old windows computer for zoom and that's it. Libre Docs can export files as .docx and your professors won't ever know that you're not using Word. But if you want to eventually write/publish books, you should really be learning Latex. It is so incredible powerful and I have written a lot of programs that automatically generated documents, such as grammar drills, using latex and C++.
Get familiar with C++ - i.e. to the point were you can write programs that actually do productive things - and then learn python and R because you'll mostly be using those in your research. I simply think you should start with C++ because it gives you a good base, but really if you know how to program in one language it's not that hard to program in another.
You are interested in a job comprised of "mental" labor. COMPUTERS ARE THE TO MENTAL LABOR WHAT TRACTORS/TRAINS/TRUCKS/EXCAVATORS ARE TO PHYSICAL LABOR.
One thing that might help you, is once I started programming, I found it filled the same niche video games did. I no longer felt the urge to play video games and instead just programmed. It's great because programming is actually a marketable skill that you can use to make your life infinitely easier.

Sorry for the length of the post and for not really responding to you or your concerns anymore. Mostly, this is a letter to my past self - perhaps my freshman year self - but nevertheless I hope you find a lot of good information in here and are successful if you do decide to pursue the Classics as a career.

Feel free to ask me questions here, though I'm pretty fickle about 4chan posts and may or may not ever respond.

[Anonymous No.20692085]

do you ever worry that you're never going to be able to catch up on classical languages in your adult years when fuckers used to spend hours every week learning Latin since childhood?

[Anonymous No.20692119]

>>20692085
People right now are jerking off on other boards right now, so I'd say we may not be in first place, but we're not in last place either.

[Anonymous No.20692142]

>>20691957
I'm not a computer savvy person, nowadays mostly use my laptop for pdf's and obligatory daily things. Can you elaborate on why it's bad to use a program like Word? Anyways, it's always nice to hear peoples experiences in the classics. Godspeed.

[Anonymous No.20692241]

>>20691947
>>20691953
>>20691957
Not the anon you replied to, but this post is very helpful and insightful.

[Anonymous No.20692772]

woah... the anons in this thread... when did /lit/ become a safehaven for gay faggots?

[Anonymous No.20692847]

>>20692772
Gay faggots? You mean that I could have been a straight faggot all this time? Wow! I wish I learned this sooner because I hate sucking dick and getting fucked in this ass. Thanks for telling me.

[Anonymous No.20692901]

>>20692772
what the fuck did you just fucking say about me you little bitch?

[Anonymous No.20692912]

I'm gonna be starting a Latin course at the start of September, and I'm wondering if there are any really concise books/websites which introduce all the fundamental grammatical concepts/jargon of the language so that I'm not going in totally blind?

[Anonymous No.20692963]

are all of Xenophon's works more or less similar in clear style and (supposed) simplicity?
I suppose I'm going to soon take a stab at Anabasis, because that seems tradition as Caesar is for Latin, but I'd be more interested afterwards in maybe reading something about Socrates or Sparta

[Anonymous No.20693087]

>>20692772
look, I'm sorry, something about studying Greek makes me yearn for some sweet bussy

[Anonymous No.20693196]

Just reached the end of Llpsi!
Really stumbled hard on that poetry bit, I understood very little of it so maybe I can't really say I've read it.
I'm gonna go and transcribe all the various declensions and conjugation in a notebook before re-reading the last 10 chapters more thoroughly.
wagmi bros

[Anonymous No.20693204]

>>20692142
The problem with Word is it's a proprietary software. I'm not entirely a free and open source software (FOSS) evangelist but I do think the world would be better if everyone used FOSS. Installing arch linux as your OS is going to make it infinitely easier to use FOSS, and installing something like Word on your arch computer kind of defeats one of the central points of linux as an OS in the first place.
Particularly for the functionality that Word provides, you can easily get through a FOSS like Libre Docs (which is almost just like Microsoft Word), and if you're doing more serious work with microsoft word like writing a manuscript for a book, it's better to just learn and use Latex

Here's a link to the GNU project philosophy if you want to learn more about free software.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
Personally, I'm less concerned about the philosophical implications of proprietary vs free software as I am about the practical implications.
Free software helps fight against a potential technocratic authoritarian regime in the future and corporate greed and inefficiency today.

[Anonymous No.20693236]

>>20691600
>>20691012
I feel for you my anglo brothers. Luckily this disease hasn't spread that much outside of anglo countries yet. I have been studying for 2 years and have never heard the word gender or queer yet, except for my Greek professor who does some typical boomer stuff laughing and saying "the Greeks were kind of 'gender sensitive' , like one would say these days" while we're reading a line of Homer where he says both θεοι and θεαι. I even had a lecture where the prof (who is a fairly distinguished Aristotle scholar) used humans being either male or female as the classic example for per se accidens (which I guess would not be welcomed at an anglo uni). The acedemics in classics here are mainly focused on the typical (boring imo) narratological and functional analysis of texts, some uberspecific bullshit like "the role of wine jars in early comedy"

[Anonymous No.20693302]

>>20690370
>Imperial Aramaic is from the Iron Age BCE and Syriac is from late antiquity/early medieval age
No shit, the same is true of Classical and Koine Greek but it you can read Homer and Hesiod you can read Anna Komnene 1800 years later no problem

>>20691204
I mean you could cheat by pointing to some language like Sogdian with a really fragmentary record. But otherwise I would agree with the first reply that it has to be Gothic

[Anonymous No.20693303]

>>20692912
Sounds like you need a grammar primer. Latin an Intensive Course is a good one if you have a good understanding of grammar and are a serious student. Wheelock's Latin if you need training wheels and your hand held.

You should read LLPSI: Familia Romana as a 2nd book either while you read your grammar primer or afterwards depending on how much free time you have to dedicate to studies and how much reading you feel you need to solidify concepts early on.

[Anonymous No.20693313]

>>20693302
Koine is just Attic for retarded foreigners and merchants. That's a really bad comparison.

[Anonymous No.20694342]

>>20693087
gross

[Anonymous No.20694510]

Rate Humbert's Latin

[Anonymous No.20694793]

Just finished chapter 9 of familia romana
It's finally picking up and I'm having a lot of fun, I'm glad I started

[Anonymous No.20694801]

>>20694793
Chapter 9 is my favorite chapter, but after that it gets bumpy for a while.

[Anonymous No.20695024]

>>20682779
No, Hindi is actually fairly far from Sanskrit. Greek is closer but even Greek isn't that close to Sanskrit. I've learned the Grammar of all 3 but for Greek and Hindi I'm still working on getting reading fluency. In any case, if you're a /CLG/ virgin (or at least if you're unfamiliar with Indo-European Classical languages) I'd recommend Devavanipravesika by Robert Goldman. If you've already learned Latin and Greek a comparative grammar will suit you better like this anon here lists >>20683263 . One thing about Sanskrit is that it expresses almost everything via participles and compound words, and the cases are fairly flexible because for the most part Sanskrit lacks prepositions, so you're probably not going to be able to transitions straight from even the most dense grammar to real texts easily, you sort of have to get a feel for how things are working in texts in order to start reading on your own. Also don't read Kalidasa first, he's very difficult. The Bhagavad Gita and the Ramayana are much easier to handle.

[Anonymous No.20695035]

>>20693313
The point is temporal separation doesn't translate to difference. There are literary languages that remained largely static over a millennium, and there are ones that changed astronomically in only a century or two (cf. 1100s English vs 1300s English). I'm looking for an answer from someone who has actually studied Aramaic instead of someone just repeating circumstantial information I'm already aware of

[Anonymous No.20695037]

>>20688940
You could learn Greek to make Latin easier but Greek is harder to learn because it's fairly non-standard, whereas Latin is a much more standardized language. The other way around would probably be best, though I myself can't say, I learned Sanskrit first and then Greek, considering learning Latin as well.

[Anonymous No.20695421]

>declension of nouns
I am kill

[Anonymous No.20695681]

I saw "Sciō quid quemque agere posse" given as an answer to a question, just how far can infinitives be 'stacked' in this fashion?

[Anonymous No.20695906]

>>20695421
my man you got filtered QUICK

[Anonymous No.20695910]

>>20695906
No, I'm just speedrunning through duolingo without reading any of the notes. I finally had to look something up after a week.

[Anonymous No.20695913]

>>20695910
Remember to memorize their declension and gender, it's important. You can't laze your way out of everything.

[Anonymous No.20695936]

>>20695910
What's your end goal in learning Latin?

[Anonymous No.20695939]

>Translating Old English passages
>Struggle
>Look at the answer key
>It becomes completely obvious why the answer is what it is once I read it again and I feel retarded for not getting it the first time
What is this weirdness?

[Anonymous No.20695950]

>>20695939
Very normal. The effect seems to be stronger with some languages than others. I've heard (half-jokingly) that you can only read Classical Chinese if you already know what it's supposed to say.

[Anonymous No.20696001]

>>20695913
>it's important
It's very important indeed. I'm surprised my speedrunning even lasted a week. I expected to hit a wall once I got past the greetings.

>>20695936
I'll be immensely pleased if I can get to the point where I'm able to read the Bible or Caesar with the help of a dictionary.

[Anonymous No.20696049]

>>20696001
>read the Bible or Caesar
In that case you need to drop Duolingo immediately. The first declension is traditionally the first thing a Latin student learns. If you are "kill" after encountering a genitive for the first time you really need to reconsider your approach to learning Latin.

[Anonymous No.20696064]

>>20696001
If you've stumbled on the declensions in a week then it's like what >>20696049 says.. your method isn't working.

I strong recommend LLPSI, it's a much better introduction to latin than anything else.
You should be able to learn the first declension in a day or two

[Anonymous No.20696236]

>>20696049
>>20696064
Thanks, but I already said I wasn't reading the notes, which seems to have not been that much of a problem up to lesson five. I was doing all of the lessons on my phone up until Friday, and duolingo's ios app does not show the notes.
Looking at the notes now, Duolingo teaches nominative in the first lesson, vocative in the second lesson, locative in the third lesson, plurals in the fourth lesson, and accusative in the fifth lesson. Everything was going smoothly up to lesson five when they tossed 10 new nouns and five new verbs at me all at once. The difference in declension between discipulus/discipula and magister/magistra was the problem, as 1st fem. switches to 2nd masc. in both instances.
As for LLPSI, I can read the first two chapters without difficulty, albeit a bit slowly as I needed to use the dictionary for a few words.

[Anonymous No.20696429]

>>20695035
>>20689278
I have studied Aramaic but have yet to study Syriac other than just the slightest examination. I have been told by my teacher that I would be able to read Syriac upon learning the script because Aramaic (the Jewish variety) is practically identical grammatically and has lots of shared vocab. The dictionaries and grammars I have used seem to confirm his opinion.
My study of ancient languages has been broad but not very deep. I've read Homer in Greek, who is a perfect comparison for this, and several Latin poets. None of them have as much variation in style as there is in Daniel and Ezra, particularly Daniel, if memory serves. An analogy would be reading a paper on economics that devolves into ebonics at the drop of a hat. Another example might be reading a book that changes from F. Scott Fitzgerald to Shakespeare to Cormac McCarthy back to Fitzgerald to Thomas Jefferson. Since Daniel and Ezra include Hebrew, you could add Chaucer in for those parts, to continue with the analogy.
After reading Daniel and Ezra, I read targums Pseudo-Jonathan and Neophiti. They seemed much more consistent to themselves. I think the strangeness of Daniel and Ezra comes from tons of redaction over time and perhaps multiple sources, similar to the Pentateuch. My point here is that a reader of Biblical Aramaic becomes accustomed to frequent changes. My experience with Jewish Aramaic, reading dictionary entries that constantly reference other Aramaic languages, reading grammars that make references to various Aramaic dialects, and comments from my teacher all lead me to believe that Imperial/Biblical Aramaic is very close to Syriac. After a year of Hebrew, I started reading the Aramaic portion of Daniel in my first week of Aramaic. The difference between Imperial Aramaic and Syriac is smaller than that.

*If you have trouble following my terminology, don't worry. It is very difficult to talk about Aramaic in its broader context because of all the overlap.

[Anonymous No.20696435]

>>20695035
>>20689278
I have studied Aramaic but have yet to study Syriac other than just the slightest examination. I have been told by my teacher that I would be able to read Syriac upon learning the script because Aramaic (the Jewish variety) is practically identical grammatically and has lots of shared vocab. The dictionaries and grammars I have used seem to confirm his opinion.
My study of ancient languages has been broad but not very deep. I've read Homer in Greek, who is a perfect comparison for this, and several Latin poets. None of them have as much variation in style as there is in Daniel and Ezra, particularly Daniel, if memory serves. An analogy would be reading a paper on economics that devolves into ebonics at the drop of a hat. Another example might be reading a book that changes from F. Scott Fitzgerald to Shakespeare to Cormac McCarthy back to Fitzgerald to Thomas Jefferson. Since Daniel and Ezra include Hebrew, you could add Chaucer in for those parts, to continue with the analogy.
After reading Daniel and Ezra, I read targums Pseudo-Jonathan and Neophiti. They seemed much more consistent to themselves. I think the strangeness of Daniel and Ezra comes from tons of redaction over time and perhaps multiple sources, similar to the Pentateuch. My point here is that a reader of Biblical Aramaic becomes accustomed to frequent changes. My experience with Jewish Aramaic, reading dictionary entries that constantly reference other Aramaic languages, reading grammars that make references to various Aramaic dialects, and comments from my teacher all lead me to believe that Imperial/Biblical Aramaic is very close to Syriac.

After a year of Hebrew, I started reading the Aramaic portion of Daniel in my first week of Aramaic. The difference between Imperial Aramaic and Syriac is smaller than that.

*If you have trouble following my terminology, don't worry. It is very difficult to talk about Aramaic in its broader context because of all the overlap.

[Anonymous No.20696653]

>>20695681
In theory infinitely, in practice rarely more than two.

[Anonymous No.20696654]

>>20695681
does someone knows if the order here matters or do you have to guess what makes more sense?

[Anonymous No.20696671]

>>20696654
order tends to follow nested clauses in reverse, so 'agere posse' reads in English as 'posse agere'. This is of course not a hard rule but fairly common.
Order does matter in that derivations from typical word order are the author's way of stressing a point.
You should never 'have to guess'. Understand why and how syntax works and you will have no need to guess. This is usually accomplished by reading a lot and encountering various usages of the infinitive in the wild

[Anonymous No.20696911]

So about passives again, would the llpsi examples
Julia pueros audit neque ab iis auditur.
Pueri a Julia audiuntur neque eam audiunt.

Translate respectively to
Julia hears the boys and she is not heard by them.
The boys are heard by Julia and they do not hear her.

[Anonymous No.20696933]

>>20696911
Yes.

[Anonymous No.20697017]

Salvete Omnes
Volo tibi dare amicitiam meam

[Anonymous No.20697051]

>>20697017
Non sum homosexuales, sine nomine.

[Anonymous No.20697082]

>>20696236
Pair it with Wheelock and you'll be fine kid.

[Anonymous No.20697095]

>>20697051
Quid?

[Anonymous No.20697266]

>>20695024
Thank you. This is very helpful.

[Anonymous No.20698341]

>Koine is just Attic for retarded foreigners and merchants
God would not inspire His scripture in such a language

[Anonymous No.20698424]

>>20698341
It's exactly the kind of language you would use if you wanted to reach as many sheep as possible

[Anonymous No.20698516]

>Koine is just Attic for retarded foreigners and merchants
He says in English.

[Anonymous No.20698723]

>>20698341
Most scholars believe the gospels were originally composed in Aramaic orally and then written in Greek.

[Anonymous No.20698961]

I've decided to start writing out the declension tables
I've memorised the declension for insula, oppidum and fluvius nouns although I couldn't tell you which number they are but I'm getting impatient with remembering the ones for ovis and pastor
Honestly noun declension isn't as scary as I thought it'd be but I guess once I start learning nouns which share the same nominative ending but have different declensions it's going to get confusing

[Anonymous No.20698985]

>>20698723
That's not true I think, the Aramaic master text hypothesis has never been more than fringe and most believe that only the Q source could have been Aramaic if it existed at all. The best hypothesis I've seen for the Q source is Casey's "chaotic Q" theory which is that there were multiple overlapping Q sources, some oral and some very possibly written and Aramaic. Only Mark was a native Aramaic-Greek bilingual, and he clearly wrote the gospel originally in Greek, though very possibly from those original Aramaic sources, and there are multiple awkward overly direct translations from Aramaic into Greek revealing that he was bilingual code switching (according to Casey). The subsequent gospel writers are much better and more native Greek prose stylists, especially Luke who probably principally knew Gentile communities. Paul was probably a native speaker of Koine though he spoke Aramaic.

[Anonymous No.20699025]

test

[Anonymous No.20699363]

>>20698341
looks like you were close to realizing the uncomfortable truth about Christianity but then didn't arrive at the conclusion properly. Koine is a pidgin form of Attic Greek, a creole adapted by the Hellenistic rulers of the east for the low-IQ populations of Egypt, Syria and Iran. It is exactly why the Bible was first written in it, because early Christians were low IQ subhumans.

[Anonymous No.20699657]

>>20699363
t. hasn't read a single word of early christian literature

[Anonymous No.20700229]

>>20699657
nice argument, I can see why you omitted any substance whatsoever from it

[Anonymous No.20700272]

>Πίετε ἐξ αὐτοῦ πάντες, τοῦτο γάρ ἐστιν τὸ αἷμά μου, τὸ τῆς Καινῆς Διαθήκης™
Are you fucking kidding me Matthew? Dropped the book right there

[Anonymous No.20700529]

Where can I find a text file of the vulgate?

[Anonymous No.20700687]

>>20700529
I don't know where you can find a text file, but here is a link to the vatican's website with an html version
https://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_index_lt.html
and here's a pdf from libgen
https://mega.nz/file/y9UFEDRR#SWB182bobz_E9vq5uqK5LTa2Yqdp51dSthQXR2g3T-4

[Anonymous No.20700710]

What's the best beginner text of actual Latin I can get? I was thinking Loeb's Cornelius Nepos or Sallust.

[Anonymous No.20700858]

>>20700710
de Bello Gallico

[Anonymous No.20700986]

I'm loving Old English broþron.
>tfw understanding bible passages after a week of learning.

[Anonymous No.20701425]

What sort of level is Res Gestae Divi Augusti? It's going to be the first target text on my Latin course.

[Anonymous No.20701560]

>>20698985
What if the scriptures were actually an elaborate sham by a group of bored Greek-language atheists who were trying to prank the Jews of their days with the coming of their Messiah?
Is there any academic possibility at all that this might be the case?
Or maybe a Jewish reaction to the Roman occupation of Jerusalem/Judea, somehow? In the same way as Revelation, what if all 4 evangelia are just meant as allegory and literary fiction?

[Anonymous No.20701561]

>>20701425
from a basic quick look seems doable, short sentences, syntax not too convoluted, though a standard choice of Caesar would still seem more appropriate

[Anonymous No.20701950]

>>20701560
People like you are why academia is dead.

[Anonymous No.20701999]

>>20701950
I didn't know 4chan passed for academia, but if that makes me a professor, I'd like to ask you to leave the classroom, please.

[Anonymous No.20703318]

ΠΡΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΟΤ

[Anonymous No.20703520]

>>20703318
Why did you put the russian P at the start there?

[Anonymous No.20703653]

>>20703520
>russian

[Anonymous No.20703700]

>>20703653
It's on my Russian keyboard:(

[Anonymous No.20704705]

ποῦ εἰσι πάντες;
ποῦ εἰσιν οἱ πάλαι ῥωμανίσκοι οἱ ἀεὶ ἀλλήλοις διαφερόμενοι καὶ κάκκῃ στοχαζόμενοι οἵ γε μὴν τὸ νῆμα ἐκ θανάτου συνεχῶς καθ' ἡμέραν σῴζοντες; μανθάνοντας, ἐλπίζ' ἔγωγε!
τοῦτο τὸ τοῦ /κλγ/ μόρος; μὰ Δία!
καθευτέον μοι νῦν, κάλη νύξ, φίλοι!

[Anonymous No.20704990]

How long does it take to read koine greek fluently with a dictionary?
Also how long does it take to go from attic greek to koine and koine to medieval greek?

[Anonymous No.20705177]

>>20704990
That all depends on you and what you're reading. Some Koine texts can be very difficult. Some of them, like the New Testament, are quite simple. Do you have a gift for languages and are being taught at Oxford? If so, it should be pretty quick and easy. If you're just a normal guy who is teaching himself, you're in for a very tough time.

[Anonymous No.20705183]

>>20705177
Difficult relative to what?
Are there Koine texts that are significantly more difficult compared to Attic? And yeah, I'm just teaching myself
Never found much value in having teachers

[Anonymous No.20705246]

I never see anyone talk about Henle's Latin textbooks here. I'm going through his Second Year text and it seems pretty good as comprehensible inpooot.

[Anonymous No.20705253]

>>20705183
I'm a relatively new student, just completed 2 years of Greek. One of my instructors told me, which has been confirmed elsewhere, that the Greek novels can have some of the toughest, most complicated Greek there is. So you could say that some Koine is very tough relative to all the extant Greek. Mark, which is also Koine, is super easy.

>Never found much value in having teachers
Maybe, you're a genius, or maybe, you're a headstrong retard. Regardless, the only person that matters to is you. Either you will succeed, or you won't. Most self-taught students are not successful, but there are also some incredibly successful people who are autodidactic. My reason for stating this is to qualify my answer further. Greek might be a breeze for you because you're a genius, you might struggle but succeed, or you will begin lose steam in a few weeks and your studies will be at a standstill by October. Basically, there is no point in asking people who don't know anything about you how hard Greek will be for you.

[Anonymous No.20705665]

>>20705183
>Never found much value in having teachers
t. never had a good teacher

[Anonymous No.20706061]

>>20705665
>t. never had a good teacher
this
>>20705183
>Never found much value in having teachers
Good teachers can make otherwise boring and tedious material seem palatable. Great teachers can make it fun. Good teachers can help their students understand difficult concepts. Great teachers can help their students master them.

[Anonymous No.20706259]

Has anybody read the Historia Augusta?

[Anonymous No.20707130]

>>20706259
Parts of it. Bit of a slog.

[Anonymous No.20707706]

How long does it take to learn latin

[Anonymous No.20707768]

>>20707706
about tregenti quinqueginta

[Anonymous No.20708258]

>>20707706
As long as it it takes

[Anonymous No.20709630]

>>20707706
don't matter
you will learn Latin and you will be happy

[Anonymous No.20709777]

>>20707706
Define learn

[Anonymous No.20709889]

>>20707706
6 months to read using grammar translation (Latin An Intensive Course)
10 years to read fluently

[Anonymous No.20710791]

>>20709889
You’re implying every barbarian who has ever learned Latin has been functionally illiterate for a full decade after “learning” the language. I call bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20711102]

>>20710791
that's what happens when you're stupid enough to use a method called "grammar translation" instead of just learning to read like a normal human right away

[Anonymous No.20711243]

>>20711102
shoo shoo esperanto tranny

[Anonymous No.20711249]

>>20711102
>Gatekeeping
>In English
>Tranny

[Anonymous No.20711293]

>tfw you complete another chapter of LLPSI

[Anonymous No.20711333]

>>20710791
Reading through grammar translation is still reading, especially once you get good and the process becomes almost seamless
>>20711102
Yeah the problem is that you can't approach Latin like a normal living language
You could use LLPSI but that's far slower of a method and it's not a guarantee that you won't end up using grammar translation for the truly difficult Latin authors anyway

[Anonymous No.20711366]

>>20700000

[Anonymous No.20711377]

>>20683710
You don't need 'grammar foundations ' to understand a language. You're a monolingual anglo, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.20711392]

>>20689049
The natural method predates LLPSI. Look up Comenius' Orbis Pictus.

[Anonymous No.20711394]

Start with Call of the Crocodile.

[Anonymous No.20711484]

>>20711377
dilate

[Anonymous No.20711582]

>>20711333
>the problem is that you can't approach Latin like a normal living language
explain why
you can learn to read a language just fine without ever talking to a human

[Anonymous No.20711584]

>>20710791
>>20711102
>Just travel to Rome and talk to natives.
Thanks guys why didn't I think of this sooner.

[Anonymous No.20711741]

>>20711243
>>20711249
>every post i don't like is made by the same person
not the esperanto tranny esperanto is retarded and trannies are mentally ill

[Anonymous No.20711755]

>>20711584
>Just travel to Rome and talk to natives.
But you don't need to talk. If the corpus of the language is big enough (which it is for Latin), you can acquire it. Nobody is claiming you'll end up speaking like a fluent Roman because yes indeed you would need to also listen to a fluent Roman to achieve that. But learning to read, comprehend and write fluently is absolutely possible - it's no different from a modern day language where you can do the exact same thing.

[Anonymous No.20711817]

>>20711755
Being able to read and write I would have to know the grammar first, no?

[Anonymous No.20712671]

>>20711817
how did you learn to read and write as a child? i sure as shit didn't start with grammar
are you able to read through the first chapter of llpsi without grammar study? that's how
the general idea is the same, even when the grammar concepts themselves get more complex
you see it used, comprehend what it means, and once you've seen it frequently enough you can even start using it yourself

[Anonymous No.20712687]

>>20712671
you dont read Latin

[Anonymous No.20712692]

>>20712687
i'll take that as your concession

[Anonymous No.20712813]

>>20691096
There's literally nothing you can get in a university that you can't get online or in books.

[Anonymous No.20712822]

>>20712813
perhaps these days

[Anonymous No.20712865]

>>20707706
You can do finish a textbook inside a month if you're smart and diligent. From there you just start slowly reading and stumbling until you can walk, it's fun if you don't set stupid or absurd expectations like "knowing Latin" (a nebulous idea anyway).

Don't listen to the "naturally absorb the language" trolls. It's one or two guys continuing to shill it out of spite, because they got mad that actual classicsfags make fun of it every time. For some reason they think they're sticking it to the snobs, when the "snobs" are really just people trying to help them. The chief defender of the natural immersion method has been redoing and talking about his starter textbook for three fucking years.

[Anonymous No.20713442]

may have been asked already many times but is there a to-go place to look for editions of works with macrons included? I don't need anything fancy otherwise, just macrons
my Latin is generally already good enough but I regrettably didn't pay as much attention to long and short vowels when learning and I'd like to try and fix it by just reading

[Anonymous No.20713644]

>>20713442
It's unfortunate, but I don't think such a place exists.
There's https://hypotactic.com/latin/, which is cool, but for poetry only.
For prose, Caesar's Gallic War and Eutropius' Brevarium, as the most common beginner texts, have scans of old student editions with macrons on archive.org.
But other than that, it's mostly bits and pieces (like the Hannibal part from Nepos from DCC), seldom a complete edition of a text.

I wish tradcaths would do something useful for a change and create a macronized Vulgate.
Sefaria put the entirety of the Jewish Hebrew/Aramaic scriptures (vocalized!) on GitHub, while Catholics have to put up with an OCR text dumped onto a web page, it's embarrassing.
(There exists a macronized Gospel of John you can buy... from Luke Ranieri. How that doesn't shame people into action, I don't know.)

[Anonymous No.20713665]

>>20712692
That wasn't me but he's probably right. My original point was that you can't learn Latin the way you learn living languages so these "bet you didn't learn your grammar as a child" arguments are vacuous. I think LLPSI is great and you might learn a lot of Latin with it but it doesn't help you learn how to learn a language, and it doesn't help you to see the grammatical backbone of Latin. If you only use Familia Romana you are doing a massive disservice to yourself.

[Anonymous No.20713678]

>>20713665
>you can't learn Latin the way you learn living languages
why?

[Anonymous No.20713695]

>>20713678
no living speakers to immerse yourself around, and all the literature is too high level, there's not enough low level stuff.

[Anonymous No.20713719]

>>20713695
>no living speakers to immerse yourself around
you only need this if you want to learn how to listen and speak
>and all the literature is too high level, there's not enough low level stuff.
that's just a ridiculous claim the latin corpus is gigantic of course there is enough stuff for all levels
dictionaries are allowed btw you don't have to infer everything from scratch

[Anonymous No.20713736]

>and all the literature is too high level

[Anonymous No.20713825]

>>20713719
>>no living speakers to immerse yourself around
>you only need this if you want to learn how to listen and speak

So you admit it is impossible to learn Latin the way I learned English as a child.

[Anonymous No.20713834]

>>20712671
>how did you learn to read and write as a child? i sure as shit didn't start with grammar
Fun fact, we're adults.
>that's how a drooling baby does it, therefore it's objectively the only right way
I learned to use the toilet as a child by being bribed with candy, do you need skittles to lure you to take a poop in the right location?

[Anonymous No.20713836]

>>20713825
>So you admit it is impossible to learn Latin the way I learned English as a child.
Not him but it isn't since many Europeans are recorded learning languages across Asia and Africa just by living there

[Anonymous No.20713897]

>>20713834
>Fun fact, we're adults.
What's your point? This just means you should be even better at acquisition now since presumably you have better developed mental faculties than when you were a child.

[Anonymous No.20713975]

>>20713897
Yeah so you don't have to go at a snails pace trying to "infer" everything, because unlike a child you can actually READ one language to help you learn another.

[Anonymous No.20713987]

>>20713975
yeah but then youll just end up here again >>20709889

[Anonymous No.20713994]

>>20713987

[Anonymous No.20713997]

>>20713994
>>20713994

[Anonymous No.20714111]

>>20713644
Only plebs need macrons. Masoretic pointing is extremely beneficial to the understanding of Hebrew and Aramaic. There is even a field of study called Masoretics. There is no such thing as macronetics. This is because you should no longer need macrons after getting through Wheelock.

>(There exists a macronized Gospel of John you can buy... from Luke Ranieri. How that doesn't shame people into action, I don't know.)
If you see a man having sex with a dog, you won't be shamed into doing anything. What some retard does is of no concern to genuine scholars. His addition of macrons to the Gospel of John only shows the failure of his teaching methods. If you can't read Latin without macrons, you don't really know Latin.

[Anonymous No.20714234]

>>20700529
Wikisource
>>20707706
nobody here knows latin

[Anonymous No.20714266]

bros help, i fell asleep near some birds chirping and now i speak bird but it pushed out all my latin

[Anonymous No.20714383]

>>20714111
Relege nuntios quos respondisti et intellege neminem hic macra Latine legendo necessaria habuisse.

[Anonymous No.20714749]

>>20713836
So I just need to live among native Latin speakers. Let me just start up my time machine.

Quo ibimus, nobis vias necesse non sunt

[Anonymous No.20715290]

>>20714266
wtf how do I protect against this?

[Anonymous No.20715319]

>>20715290
Copious amounts of cinnamon

[Anonymous No.20716455]

bump

[Anonymous No.20716703]

>>20715319
>A spoonful of cinnamon helps the declensions stay down

[Anonymous No.20717526]

bump last time
dead threads

[Anonymous No.20717888]

No one here actually knows any language

[Anonymous No.20717929]

>>20717888
τί; οὐ δύναμαι τήνδε τὴν βάρβαρον γλῶσσαν συνιέναι, λέγ' αὖθις ἀττικιστί, φίλε

[Anonymous No.20717935]

>>20717929
its just random symbols

[Anonymous No.20718599]

>>20687452
I have a friend who uses reconstructed Middle Chinese.

[Anonymous No.20718816]

Are imperatives necessarily always 2nd person?

[Anonymous No.20718858]

>>20718816
no
you can order a group to do something

[Anonymous No.20718895]

>>20718816
Latin has third person future imperatives as well, uncommon, but not that rare either
Greek even more

[Anonymous No.20718911]

Hodie "tempus futurum" disco. Nunc "Numquam canis ero" inquit possum, etiam "numquam femina eris."

[Anonymous No.20719127]

Why did medieval shorthand systems of Latin die out? Latin is imo quite suitable for syllabary orthography. So much wasted potential.

[Anonymous No.20719376]

>>20718858
Isn't a group just plural second person?

[Anonymous No.20719538]

these little wiktionary tables are kinda neat

[Anonymous No.20719546]

>>20719538
for Latin

[Anonymous No.20719668]

The 'complete' series is so good it's astonishing. Complete Latin is excellent, and after the first few chapters starts only using primary sources for the exercises. All the Complete books seem great for classics, shame the Japanese text is kind of dogshit

[Anonymous No.20719760]

>>20719538
wiktionary is clutch

[Anonymous No.20719797]

>>20700529
http://www.sacredbible.org/vulgate1914/index.htm

[Anonymous No.20719813]

>>20682792
οσοι ασχολουνται με γλωσσολογια ειναι παρθενοι
ακουμπα γρασιδι φλωρε

[Anonymous No.20719861]

>>20719376
Yes. Ye, y’all, etc. are all 2nd person plural.

>>20718816
First person imperatives might be a thing for schizos, but I’m sure they’d say it’s 2nd person.

[Anonymous No.20719876]

>>20719861
Fun fact, first person imperatives are actually a thing in Esperanto. "Mi iru al la vendejo" is something like "Let me go to the store" or "I should go to the store"- expressing one's intention to go. It's kind of hard to translate.

[Anonymous No.20719895]

>>20719876
How long does it take to get to a decent level in Esperanto? Reckon I could bang it out in, say, 5 weeks?

[Anonymous No.20719912]

>>20719895
Depends on what you mean by 'decent level'. I've heard of people being able to at least more or less converse by then if they were very diligent about it (though it would take quite a bit of your time). At that point, you could probably focus on just using the language (writing, listening, chatting etc) rather than 'studying' per se to improve your grasp.

[Anonymous No.20719918]

>>20719912
How would you recommend going about it as opposed to natural languages?

[Anonymous No.20719919]

>>20719912
I'll add that while it's easier to learn than other languages, it's still a language and must be learned.

[Anonymous No.20719934]

>>20719918
At least personally I learned it from Teach Yourself Esperanto, but Privilegia Vojo al Lingvoscio seems pretty cool too, as does lernu.net or Evildea's direct method course. To some extent it depends on what you find suitable for you. If you're already somewhat linguistically aware and familiar with more than one European language, you might just read over the basic grammar and then dive into reading.

[Anonymous No.20720026]

>>20719668
If only it weren't so damn expensive

[Anonymous No.20720052]

>>20720026
Yarr-harr, fiddle-dee-dee...

[Anonymous No.20720059]

>>20720052
>pdfs
no

[Anonymous No.20720068]

>>20720059
I appreciate the value of paper books, but better an electronic one than nothing if you can't afford the paper book.

[Anonymous No.20720197]

Since /clg/ is slow right now, what are everyone's language learning goals here?

Personally, I want to master French, Spanish, Italian, Latin, German and Greek. I also want to dabble in Old English, Old French and Middle High German. Lastly, I want to spend a lifetime attempting to master 2 of the following (undecided yet): Sanskrit, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, Persian, or Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.20720348]

>>20720197
Tempted by Greek but I'm not as interested in it as Latin. I wish I wasn't born into poverty so I could already have 5 years of both of them under my belt through school.

Russian and Chinese for the world war that will almost certainly happen within this century, but I'm not interested in Chinese at all; Japanese is more my thing. I am actually interested in Russian too.

French and German for le educated European meme but I have no intentions whatsoever of becoming fluent. I'll probably only give 3 months of serious study to each.

Old English because I'm a native Anglo. And Dutch is supposedly the closest major language to English so I've thought about trying to speedrun the Duolingo for it in a month or two for shits and giggles.

So in decreasing levels of interest I guess it's
>Latin
>Japanese and Russian
>Old English and Dutch
>Chinese, Greek, French and German

By any chance does anyone know any good Dutch resources?

[Anonymous No.20720368]

>>20720197
first serious foreign language I studied was German(English is almost impossible NOT to learn through sheer daily exposure), I kinda left it a bit behind as I started getting into classical languages but I'd like to actually reach a good level of fluency with it
now I'm dedicating most of my time to ancient Greek after putting a couple of years of effort into Latin, though I keep also doing something with the latter
after that I'll probably go back to a modern language, I think I should learn French and it shouldn't be too hard being native already in Italian, then, if I don't get bored of language learning, I think Russian should be next in line
as for other languages, Sanskrit would be the other classical choice to go after but I feel a bit burned out on classics to even put a deadline to consider it, a non-IE language could also be interesting to look at, and in that case I'm fairly positive I'd go for Arabic

[Anonymous No.20720432]

One cool thing I never thought of when I started learning Latin is that I'd be able to understand what the lyrics of some of the early music I listened to in the past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5OoVXflI4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x25mD35ZDm0
Now the music has turned from noise into lyrics although the pronunciation is sometimes a bit confusing

[Anonymous No.20720446]

>>20720348
For Dutch just check in the usual places: Teach Yourself, Assimil, Colloquial from Routledge, Hugo's. I've found all of them to be quite solid no matter what language, though I haven't studied Dutch.

[Anonymous No.20720538]

>>20720432
idk if its just me but as soon as a word is sung it usually becomes unintelligible to me even in english

[Anonymous No.20720572]

>>20720538
I get what you mean, there aren't many songs where I can understand the lyrics without having read through them and even with some songs I've know for years I'll occasionally find I had a sentence wrong. Extreme example obviously but I'd love to see an esl try and understand this https://youtu.be/rB5Nbp_gmgQ

[Anonymous No.20720668]

Am I just lazy or does Reading Greek by JACT expect a bit much of the student in terms of memorisation for their first reading?

[Anonymous No.20720793]

>>20720432
I had an even weirder experience: I memorized the lyrics to a song or two in Japanese phonetically without understanding it (I learned the translation, but I didn't understand what each word meant or the grammar) and then later on I learned Japanese and found that I could actually understand these words I'd memorized phonetically when I sang them back to myself. It was strange.

[Anonymous No.20720976]

>>20720197
I like the idea of becoming a polyglot but having been raised in a monolingual country with no second language classes in school, and now 26, I'm worried it's already too late for me. If I do decide to go for it, I ideally would like
>Romance languages to cover most things worth reading (Latin, French, Spanish)
>Russian, but I don't know if it's even possible for me to get to the level needed to read e.g. Tolstoy in it
>Arabic to cover most of the middle east
>At least one Asian language, probably Korean or Japanese

[Anonymous No.20721007]

>>20682457
kek, absolutely aeonic synchronicity.

[Anonymous No.20721079]

>>20719668
>and after the first few chapters starts only using primary sources for the exercises
Do LLPSIlets really? For most ancient languages the only practice texts you have are primary sources

>>20719813
It's strange how weird Greek reads without polytonic notation. I remember thinking it was annoying at first but after getting used to it seeing modern Greek with monotonic notation really throws me, especially with all the common homonyms

[Anonymous No.20721304]

>>20700272
Honestly anon, I’ve been having a similar experience. I have a bit of an obsession with Aquinas, but the New Testament blows. I was really trying to get into the whole christianity thing but my I am currently thinking Skrbina was right.

[Anonymous No.20721533]

>>20720197
I don't have any goals. I just blunder along practicing whatever is interesting.

[Anonymous No.20721546]

Is grammatical gender linked to biological gender or not? I don't trust anyone who says it isn't because of woke ideology shit. Everything has been infiltrated so all the "official" sources of knowledge are corrupt.

[Anonymous No.20721560]

>>20721546
it's not.

[Anonymous No.20721639]

>>20720197
For modern Languages I've already reached my goals: English for the utility and Japanese for entertainment. For ancient languages I'm in the process of learning Latin, and once I feel like I can confidently read all the shit I'm interested in (which will probably take another year or so), I'll move towards ancient Greek. And unless there will be some major changes in my life that's probably all I'll ever need.

[Anonymous No.20721863]

>>20691957
Ok Luke, but remember to keep the topic of FOSS contained to your YT channel.

[Anonymous No.20722002]

>>20721546
There is no such thing as "biological gender" it's called biological sex. Gender is a grammar term that just means "group". Genesis is the origin, so gender means of the same origin. Leftist lunatics don't understand Latin grammar and that's why they misuse gender and come up with stupid fucking words like Latinx instead of Latinum.

[Anonymous No.20722010]

>>20722002
Okay so why are female associated words "feminine" and male associated words "masculine then, if "gender" is a word classification group that has nothing to do with male and female?

[Anonymous No.20722176]

>>20722010
>if "gender" is a word classification group that has nothing to do with male and female?
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/opli-2021-0008/html

"In colloquial Amharic, grammatical gender reversal also correlates with a positive attitude of the speaker. Feminine forms are associated with affection and tenderness when used among friends. Second person feminine pronouns can be employed by men to address other men as a way of expressing endearment (Wołk 2009: 131–32; Pankhurst 1992, cited in Aikhenvald 2012: 71).

In Israeli Hebrew, men can address women by masculine pronouns and masculine verb morphology “as a sign of affection, intimacy, and solidarity” (Aikhenvald 2016: 106). Close female friends and relatives can also affectionately address each other and refer to themselves using the masculine gender. Tobin (2001: 185) observes that such instances of gender reversal are “usually accompanied by a rise in pitch and an intonation pattern associated with ‘baby talk’.”

For example, in (2a), the masculine gender is used in self-reference by an 8-year-old girl when her parents ask her to go to bed (Tobin 2001: 190 also observes that the utterance is accompanied by a “baby talk” intonation). In (2b), a young girl refers to her twin sister with the masculine gender (accompanied by using her sister’s pet name “Tutu”) as a sign of intimacy and affection."

[Anonymous No.20722182]

>>20721079
dont care
modern greek sounds better

[Anonymous No.20722235]

>>20722182
Too much iota

[Anonymous No.20722250]

>reading LLPSI
>can never remember which of accusative, ablative, dative is which

I can only ever remember nominative for some reason

[Anonymous No.20722261]

>>20722250
>ablative, dative
ablative is like dative, but with prepositions.

[Anonymous No.20722329]

>>20722250
Do you mean remembering their declensions?

[Anonymous No.20722345]

>>20719813
don't speak modern greek so I only understood the first sentence. I guess im a virgin and need to touch grass.

[Anonymous No.20722412]

>>20722329
well sorta, I mean I see a word ending and recognise it as denoting possession etc. but I couldn't tell you which case it is

[Anonymous No.20722524]

>>20722250
Just takes practice, I used to struggle with them as well becuase many of them are the same form. But with enough practice it becomes effortless

[Anonymous No.20722536]

I know what I'm about to ask is not about a classical language, but I believe this thread is more serious than others on the site.
What are some subtle signs someone's ESL? Not the standard dead giveaways, but little slips that even someone advanced could make.

[Anonymous No.20722555]

>>20722536
A/an and the. Foreigners cannot get them right. Some come close but they almost always slip up here and there. Plurals too sometimes

[Anonymous No.20722642]

>>20722345
>don't speak modern greek
Who are you to forbid me?

[Anonymous No.20722669]

>>20722536
I am ESL, in particular German; what I see with lots of Germans trying to write English is that they put "the" everywhere.

[Anonymous No.20722704]

>>20722669
>I am the ESL, in particular the German; what I see with lots of the Germans trying to write the English is they the put the "the" everywhere.

[Anonymous No.20722835]

>>20721546
In the Indo-European languages, they are generally tied to sex and/or social gender for words referring to human beings and domesticated animals. For example, a man would say "conatus sum" for "I attempted" but a woman would say "conata sum". However, for most other words they are simply arbitrarily linked to the noun.

[Anonymous No.20722840]

>>20722412
So you know the endings and what they mean, just not what the cases are called? That's not the end of the world, though given the cases' names are pretty straightforward descriptions in Latin of what they do, the vocabulary your learn should help you remember the names. For example ablative is ab+latus, carrying away, while dative is from dare, to give.

[Anonymous No.20722846]

>>20722669
Probably because German uses definite articles in more places than English does. French speakers have the same issue.

[Anonymous No.20722887]

>>20722642
it wasn't meant as an imperative. I have a bad habit of dropping the first pronoun in my sentences

[Anonymous No.20723143]

>>20719861
>First person imperatives might be a thing for schizos
plural first person imperatives exist in romance languages

[Anonymous No.20723217]

Reading Augustine. He thought the world was 6000 years old and Adam spoke Hebrew strange stuff

[Anonymous No.20723266]

>>20723217
Is this Confessions or City of God or something else?

[Anonymous No.20723269]

>>20723217
>strange stuff
"As is always the case with Augustine, his account is characterized by its vulgarity, gracelessness, and complete destitution of intelligence. This oafish crudity was to provide a crucial model for later Christian discourses on the subject, and captures very well the essentially brutal nature of the faith, which even the more spirited Christian writers would continue to propagate in the mode of traditional authority. Thus it is that Thomas Aquinas—who demonstrates intellectual and literary powers immeasurably outstripping those of Augustine—places those powers in the service of the Augustinian dogmas, typifying the most noble pattern of orthodox Christian culture: that of sophisticating an inherited spiritual loutishness.
It is Aquinas’ stupendous Summa Theologiae—an intellectual cathedral that is perhaps the greatest single achievement of Christian civilization"

[Anonymous No.20723379]

>>20722176
That doesn't answer the question at all.
>I know Femina just happens to be feminine and vir just happens to be masculine but oh no silly grammatical gender has nothing to do with sex.

[Anonymous No.20723397]

>>20721546
I've seen the argument that they might represent a binary or some ancient worldview about gender or something. In all the languages I know, for example, the gender for two opposites will be opposite: sun & moon, fire & water. But I'm not sure how convinced by this, since once you throw the neuter in there it complicates the situation.

[Anonymous No.20723446]

>>20723397
At least in German, fire and water are both neuter- das Wasser, das Feuer. However, die Sonne is feminine and der Mond is masculine. (I'd also bet that if you thought for a while you'd find some same-gendered opposite pairs in languages you know.)

[Anonymous No.20724289]

>>20722010
Because Latin's 3 groups of nouns tended to have ones that related to men, women, & neither. so they called them Masculine, Feminine, & Neuter. This is something that was specific to Latin. Then people started using those terms for other languages which completely different linguistics. Since then it's become conflated that gender means boy or girl. Hot and cold could have been gender categories or soft and hard.

[Anonymous No.20724388]

>>20724289
The Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages, at least, have their noun classes mostly tied to sex (for beings that have a sex which is relevant to humans i.e. humans and domesticated animals). Other language families have noun classes, but I don't think they're usually called 'masculine' and 'feminine'.

[Anonymous No.20724484]

>>20724289
>Latin's 3 groups of nouns tended to have ones that related to men, women, & neither. so they called them Masculine, Feminine, & Neuter.
Okay, so grammatical gender *is* inherently linked to sex. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.20724582]

>>20724484
In Latin. There are seven thousand languages in the world, tranny.

[Anonymous No.20724617]

>>20724582
In the Indo-European languages, it generally is. Like I said, there are languages with noun classes that have nothing to do with sex but those aren't usually called 'masculine' and 'feminine'. If a language has noun classes conventionally called 'masculine' and 'feminine' it's probably because male humans are in the former and female humans are in the latter by default.

[Anonymous No.20724624]

>>20724582
Trannies are the ones trying to say there's no link retard. That's the entire point. As a language learner it's very difficult to distinguish between tranny propaganda and genuine linguistic information.

[Anonymous No.20724658]

>>20724484
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_nominals#Gender
"Originally, there probably were only an animate (masculine/feminine) and an inanimate (neuter) gender.[13] This view is supported by the existence of certain classes of Latin and Ancient Greek adjectives which inflect only for two sets of endings: one for masculine and feminine, the other for neuter. Further evidence comes from the Anatolian languages such as Hittite which exhibit only the animate and the neuter genders.[14]"

[Anonymous No.20724683]

>>20723379
>That doesn't answer the question at all.
The answer is this: there could be a shitton of reasons why some nouns got classified as "masculine" or "feminine"

"In southern Polish (West Slavic) dialects, nouns denoting unmarried females can belong to the neuter gender."

"In Lak (a Northeast Caucasian language spoken in Dagestan), nouns are classified into four genders
Female nouns like ninu “mother” and amu “grandmother” traditionally belonged to gender II, which denotes “female rationals.” The noun duš “girl, daughter” traditionally belonged to gender III, which denotes “other animates.” Historically, gender III became a sign of respect for females, especially those who had a job. Over time, this gender was then extended to all nouns denoting females outside the family"

"In Arawak (Lokono Dian, a language spoken by the Lokono people of South America), a male referent is classified as masculine if he is a member of the Arawak group and as nonmasculine if he is a member of a different ethnic group"

"As Aikhenvald (2012: 71) observes, in Jarawara (an Arawá language from southern Amazonia), “… a woman can be referred to with masculine gender if she is particularly important in the society or is close to the speaker.”"

[Anonymous No.20725571]

>>20723143
Romance = schizo

[Anonymous No.20725765]

>>20724624
I'm an MtF and I'm confused about what you're saying
I'd say in general grammatical gender doesn't have a link to 'sex' but you obviously have words like 'man' or 'boy' and 'woman' or 'girl', male names and female names but that's going to be stated in chapter 1 of a textbook for a language with grammatical gender so I'm confused about what your issue is

[Anonymous No.20726187]

How should I go about educating people? When I used to use reddit and when I now browse this board, I see tons of ignorant comments. I just don't engage with them because it would take too much of my time and cause arguments. The same goes for irl. I will never go up to some stranger I was passively listening to and correct them, and even if I am directly conversing with someone who has an incorrect idea about something I know intimately well, I might not correct them. I find shutting the fuck up yo be a very effective approach, but when and how do I educate someone as a classicist outside academia? How do I turn it into something profitable, like a professor, tutor, physical trainer, psychologist, or accountant? What is a good medium for the 21st century, other than simply and broadly the internet?

[Anonymous No.20726201]

>>20726187
>I used to use reddit
Once a reddit always a reddit, don't care if copypasta, get in the chamber

[Anonymous No.20726463]

>>20726187
The way that you go about educating on a website like this is direct engagement when you see something wrong or retarded. Doing this gets you into arguements, yes, but it also gives you some experience in debating on linguistic, literary, and philosophical topics and the importance of research and evidence. A lot of mistakes I've seen here are people misremembering or misunderstanding shit, correcting it educates both the wrong person and those reading the posts. Also, trying to put it shortly and susinctly here gives practice to do it elsewhere. IRL, it is very different because it very much depends on who you're talking to and how you think they'll respond to it. Correcting some rando when they say that the Romans were at Thermopylae is very different from correcting someone you're talking to about a topic that you really know your shit in: one is fruitful and one is not, context determines the success of correction.

[Anonymous No.20726563]

>>20681793
What are the benefits of reading philosophy or histories in the original Greek? I can understand that Homer's meter would be better appreciated in the original, but I'm wondering what the benefits of the other modes might be.

[Anonymous No.20726569]

>>20726563
There are no benefits, modern translations are accurate enough that you don't need to bother with the original Greek
You read them in the original language because you want to

[Anonymous No.20726744]

Where can I get decent PRINT copies of Latin texts? Can someone reccomend a publisher?
I'm not looking for anything obscure basically just want Caesar, Ovid, Virgil, the Vulgate, maybe a few others like Livy or Tacitus. Stuff like that. Would prefer just plain latin text not the hybrid english latin stuff just cuz my autism makes it harder for me to concentrate on that format

[Anonymous No.20726978]

>>20726744
Oxford Classical Texts and Teubner. Oxford also used to release critical English & Latin/Greek editions in red hardcovers but I don't remember the name of the series.

[Anonymous No.20726982]

>>20726563
For example, Xenophon in "Memorabilia" makes a difference between comparing people to ἀνδράποδον (slave) or to δούλος (slave). But the translators fail to notice this.

[Anonymous No.20727009]

>>20726982
>ἀνδράποδον (slave)
Specifically a slave, that was once a free person.
Meaning, they are still human yet, just in unfortunate circumstances. A smart human that has to work instead of the life of contemplation, is this.

>δούλος
A slave that was born a slave. That thing is your average prole, and it has never been a human to begin with.


Different actions are recommended towards these two types. But if you jamble those two with translation, you'll get an incomprehensible shit and conclude, "well, Xenophon was a self-contradicting simpleton, duh"

[Anonymous No.20727036]

>>20726563
>What are the benefits of reading philosophy or histories in the original Greek?
Karl Polanyi, "Aristotle discovers economy"

Basically, how modern economists mistranslated "μετάδοσις" (giving a share) into "market exchange".

[Anonymous No.20727081]

Based Lucius Amadeus Ranieri (pbuh)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7AxJwCbpwU

[Anonymous No.20727401]

New Thread: >>20727396
New Thread: >>20727396
New Thread: >>20727396

[Anonymous No.20727986]

>>20720348
Teach yourself Dutch is a good primer. I'm dutch but I grew up in New Zealand with some fucked southern dialect so I used it to be able to speak standard dutch. Probably 1-3 months maximum and with Ankidroid it's pretty easy overall. Would recommend the OLD teach yourself booms. Post-1990s is when they go from treating the reader like an adult who can read to brainlet manchild shit like not using linguistic terminology and butchering the pronunciation section.

[Anonymous No.20727993]

>>20726563
Any translation is necessarily someone else's interpretation.

[Anonymous No.20727999]

>>20721546
In regards to proto-indo european, we believe that there were originally two genders. An animate and inanimate. The animate split along vaguely sex related lines into feminine and masculine and the inanimate became neuter. Originally there was a more direct tie to the gender but overtime they have been (partially) muddied.

[Anonymous No.20728123]

>>20685625
I truly hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I have always been curious as to how it is that an English speaking negro thinks in comparison to those around him.

Just how stupid are the people around you, given that you are likely in the tip 0.001% of Ethiopians in terms of intelligence?

[Anonymous No.20728140]

>>20728123
Not him, but most of the Ethiopians I've met have seemed like perfectly normal people.

[Anonymous No.20728161]

>>20728140
I'm living in America so, I've seen how poorly blacks perform in complex societies.

Now I just feel like I'm punching down, which I didn't want to do.

[Anonymous No.20728167]

>>20728161
I'm not sure if that's really a fair example, there's a lot of historical factors involved in that case, as well as prejudice and discrimination even continuing to the present day.

[Anonymous No.20728203]

>>20728167
You really just have to live here to understand, my freind.

[Anonymous No.20728220]

>>20728203
I do live here.

[Anonymous No.20728246]

>>20728220
Ok, then you have to be white and not brainwashed or retarded to understand.

[Anonymous No.20728274]

>>20728246
With 'brainwashed' here being defined as 'comes to a different conclusion than you', I get it.

[Anonymous No.20728350]

>>20728274
Comes to a different, incorrect conclusion as a consequence of the brainwashing, yes.

[Anonymous No.20728355]

>>20728350
And do you have any concrete reason I should believe your conclusion is right?

[Anonymous No.20728413]

>>20728355
Anyone who doesn't recognize the inherent intellectual deficiencies of the homo africanus sub-species in comparison to literally any other sub-species is Incapable of abstract thought and has been conditioned not to think about certain aspects of material reality by corporate interests and government institutions.

[Anonymous No.20728428]

>>20728413
What if I recognize that some are not very smart in the present day but think that's not genetically inherent but the product of circumstances?

[Anonymous No.20728439]

>>20728428
I'm certain those circumstances played a large role in their present biological condition, but we are still talking about circumstances that have effected a biological condition.

That being a smaller neo-cortex.

[Anonymous No.20728447]

>>20728123
I am white. I am not Ethiopian. If you read my posts, you should come to the understanding that I recently learned Ge'ez in an American university. I call myself Ethiopianon because I am among the rare few to learn Ge'ez. I know Latin, for instance, and am better at it than Ge'ez, but Latinanon could be the name of lots of people in this thread. Would you call me a dumb spic if I was Latinanon? I did not anticipate carrying this identity for as long as I have. It was just going to be my first post about learning Ge'ez and my update post after the conclusion of the course. Now, I am the creator of the Semitic Mega. I have a few more files, so an update should come soon.
t. Ethiopianon

[Anonymous No.20728492]

>>20728447
>I am white.
Well, that explains that then. I apologize for inferring you were black.

[Anonymous No.20728550]

>>20728492