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/lit/ - Literature

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20679831 No.20679831 [Reply] [Original]

Was Sade right about murder?

>> No.20679878

>>20679831
So this is the intellectual prowess of a French Masonic Luciferian... woah...

>> No.20679914

>>20679831
Murder is by definition is an unlawful killing. The sovereign (state) is, at least in some sense, above and outside the law. Therefore when the sovereign kills that is not murder.

>> No.20679973

>>20679878
I'm pretty sure most French intellectuals were demons -- Murat, de Sade, Robespierre, Diderot. Hell, you could even put Descartes in there.

>> No.20680093

>>20679831
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about

>> No.20680157
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20680157

>>20679831
Sade had the chance to legally--by the state, on the guillotine--have murdered essentially all his enemies, especially his mother-in-law whom he held responsible for his imprisonment and hated with a maniacal passion... yet he chose not to. That, along with a few other political missteps, at the expense of losing his influence and power in the early Republican government (he was a member of the National Convention.) So he didn't believe this. This being lit, we might need to clarify something for those who don't read: Sade was a writer, speaking in the voice of many characters with all sorts of beliefs.

>> No.20680195

>>20680157
>Sade was a writer, speaking in the voice of many characters with all sorts of beliefs.
Were Sade's fictional characters right about murder?

>> No.20680198

>>20679973
>Hell, you could even put Descartes in there.
wtf

>> No.20680217

>>20679831
In regard to murder being inconsequential in the grand scheme of the Nature's design, yeah, he might have a point. I'm reading the two J's right now and I gotta say he is definitely interesting to read if only to understand what drove people like him.

>> No.20680222

>>20680217
Do you think he has a point though?

>> No.20680226

>>20680222
At times he has a point, yes.

>> No.20680289
File: 130 KB, 1259x800, foucault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20680289

>>20679878
It's not even his final form

>> No.20680324

>>20680226
Would you ever murder someone?

>> No.20680347

People murdering each other in the street isn’t good for society. At best you can get highly stylized ritual violence “mutual combat” but the state should have a monopoly on violence.

>> No.20680758

if a woman is depressed it's usually because her father didn't discipline her when she was being cunty, you know what you must do.

>> No.20680958

>>20680157
Do you actually expect retards here to have any historical knowledge? Or know where Sade was going with his writings

>> No.20681379

>>20679831
No but he was right about death penalty, and I'd say he was mostly right when highlighting how in a laic state the with no objective morality the only thing that opposes all sorts of atrocities is the social contract, which is pretty pathetic and can easily be bypassed if you are rich and powerful

>> No.20681399

>>20680758
or he disciplined her too much
or he gave her his penis
it doesn't matter
if a woman is depressed only positive heterosexual nurturing will fix her

>> No.20681407

>>20679973
And all the "French" adjutants like Rousseau and Voltaire.

>> No.20681409

>>20679831
jesus christ anon, he's making a point that execution of a murderer is also murder.

it's a platitude anecdote from the tea room, don't get overly excited.

>> No.20681430

>>20679831
Murder is only a crime when committed by a criminal, it's quite simple really.

>> No.20681478

>>20679914
Wow great homo-sacring you got there

>> No.20681673

>>20679914
The French demanded the de-sacralization of the state so they could ask from where the state derives their authority in administering justice.

>> No.20681682
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20681682

>> No.20681717

>>20679973
>Descartes, the christkek mostly known for his eager attempts to defend christcuckery
>he could be a demon
Your brain on schizophrenia.
No point in meds, just end it famalam.

>> No.20683002

>>20680195
Some of characters Juliette live thought the end but most are killed by other libertines. If you think murder is so fun, and you can torture then kill anyone just because he is boring, how you can prevent being killed by people holding similar beliefs?

>> No.20683006

>>20680758
Juliette ends with guy fucking corpse of his daughter he killed

>> No.20683044

>>20679831
If born today, Sade would be a moralfag, because he's really just a contrarian at heart

>> No.20683297

>>20681478
>>20681673
It has nothing to do with the sacred and everything to do with the state's superior ability to inflict violence. This is plain as day in modern secular states that retain the ability to execute people, or the doctrine of sovereign immunity.

>> No.20683321

>>20683002
Read “Sade’s Reason” by Blanchot

>> No.20684858

>>20680198
Descartes was a known occultist and Rosicrucian.

>>20679973
We just say Sade, brother. And yes, if not demons, they were certainly all sorcerers and worshippers of the devil.

>> No.20684875

>>20681717
Nigger, "Christian hermeticism" is occultism and sorcery. Fucking retard.

>> No.20684911

>>20679973
>i-its a demon!
not an argument

>> No.20685463

>>20680347
what if the state's monopoly produces an ineffective system that satisfies no party and brews violence anyway

>> No.20685523

>>20680347
This. We should bring back state sponsored gladiatorial death matches.

>> No.20685537

>>20683044
What he was saying was not contrarian though. It fits perfectly in with the Enlightenment view of self-interest and the death of morality.

>> No.20685988

>>20679831
No, why would he?

>> No.20686022

>>20681407
voltaire was a deist, but he was also a fierce opponent of atheism

>> No.20686396

>>20681430
is it though? who gets to decide who's criminal and who isn't? is the state immune to criminality?

>> No.20686502

>>20679831
Murder doesn't even really exist
It's just a fancy human word for killing

>> No.20686515

>>20679831
Each has the right to life until he forgeits said right by violating the rights of another. Killing a murderer is just, killing the innocent is murder.

>> No.20686531

>>20684858
>Descartes was a known ... Rosicrucian

doubt.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-009-2997-5_5

>> No.20686553

>>20679831
Before degenerate Christians start commenting about their pervers concept of the sacred nature of life, let me make it absolutely clear that it is a neccesity, complete and total to eliminate the dangerous elements from society, death is simply the most merciful, unlike locking someone up in a big house, with other loonies for the rest of their healthy lives.

>> No.20686560

>>20684858
>Rosicrucian.
Rosicrucianism being a joke played by a Lutheran minister on an unsuspecting population.....

>> No.20686562

>>20686502
You murder a member of your own legal system, you kill someone of another.

>> No.20687127

>>20686562
if you go to a country with a different legal system and killed someone you'd be charged with murder you dumb fuck.

>> No.20687180

>>20683297
Sure, it does. The whole idea is that a just state derives it’s authority from somewhere and that’s how they’re able to do things which would be illegal for others (as if the context is equivalent in the first place which it never is). De Sade belonged to a camp that sought to secularize the state and then go “see they don’t have the authority to do things either”.

>> No.20687187

>>20686553
I can live in society with murderers. I can't live in a society without just laws

>> No.20688162

>>20679831
Did Sade say this or did one of his characters did? Everyone knows, Sade most of all, that his characters were all sophists and liars. You have to see beyond their words to find Sade's true philosophy. Read Blanchot.

>> No.20688227

>>20679973
French people are inherently evil. Descartes only made anything good because of his being involved with the Dutch.

>> No.20688634

>>20688227
>good because of his being involved with the Dutch
yikes