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/lit/ - Literature

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20675804 No.20675804 [Reply] [Original]

was nietzsche proven wrong by our current modern society? we're more atheist than ever and were in a worse spot than we've ever been in. Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created. indulgence just leads to a petty, niggerish hell.

>> No.20675824

>its a pol tard think neetchee was a nihilist and not against nihilism episode

>> No.20675825

>>20675824
nietzsche thought there was no inherent meaning in life therefore he was a nihilist. prove me wrong if im wrong

>> No.20675861

>>20675804
I think it's safe to admit that Nietzsche didn't care about the big bulk of society

>> No.20675864

>>20675861
but he judged societies based off of the "health of the culture"

>> No.20675896

>>20675825
Yeah he actually constantly repeats art justifies life in Birth Of Tragedy. How can you make a thread about someone you haven't even read

>> No.20675904

>>20675864
Sure he praised here and there. But Nietzsche isn't prescriptive. I think his major points have to do with physiology and the intellectual class at his time.

Also, about the current state of society, he said somewhere that there would
have to happen 200 years before the death of god is felt. Most would say that we are not yet at the lowest point of our civilization.

>> No.20676185

>>20675804
>retard christfag who thinks nietzsche is just another christopher hitchens who wanted to spread atheism
retard

>> No.20676190

>>20675804
OP has never read Nietzsche.

>> No.20676191

>>20675896
>art justifies life
ie nihilism, life is not valuable in itself.

>> No.20676206

>>20676191
Retard

Of course life has no intrinsic meaning. Christianity is not an intrinsic system. Humans invented it. Humans lived for thousands of years without Christianity whatsoever, and they were completely fine.

Nietzsche says God is dead not because he celebrates some kind of nihilistic hedonism that comes after, but because Christianity itself rotted out and needs replacing. He wants the creation of NEW systems, because he recognizes unlike you that you cannot roll the clock back on what's going on.

Religious and cultural values are relative, as well. Absolutely. You're ignorant if you think otherwise. Nietzsche himself recognizes this. Look up the creation of Zoroastrian religion as a negation of proto-Hinduism. Ahura Mazda is an evil God in proto-Hinduism, Zoroastrianism is basically the Satanism of 1500 BCE. And guess what? Zoroastrians lived just fine, built a great society, and their religion directly influenced the creation of Judaism and later your beloved Christianity.

The fact you cling to Christianity shows you have absolutely no imagination or understanding of historical religions. Nietzsche was a highly spiritual thinker, too, if you didn't know. He was just smarter than you in realizing you cannot go back to a dead era.

>> No.20676211

>>20676206
>Of course life has no intrinsic meaning
So Nietzsche is a nihilist.
>Christianity is not an intrinsic system
Of course it is. Life has an absolute value in Christianity.
Enjoy your nihilism, just quit pretending it's something it's not.

>> No.20676216

>>20676206
>Of course life has no intrinsic meaning
how do you say something blatantly contrary to what you wrote one post ago, and think you're not the retard

>> No.20676218

>>20676191
>>20676206
Also, Nietzsche warned against the "last men" of modern society thoroughly. He knew that people were headed towards an anhedonic hedonism, people metaphorically masturbating 24/7 with no real struggles or strifes. He saw this as the worst potential outcome for humanity, and that's exactly what we have. The amount of millennials/zoomers I know who take antidepressants, smoke weed, and take uppers just to function is absurd. So if anything Nietzsche accurately predicted the future of humanity.

>> No.20676219

>>20676211
No the actual difference is that unlike you nietzsche has the honesty to admit that his system of values isn't a universal truth.

>> No.20676220

>>20676216
Different posters.

>>20676211
Simpleton reply. I suspect you've never had an original thought in your life.

>> No.20676223

>>20676216
>>20676220
I’m not sure why you guys are getting so hung up about calling Neech a nihilist. By his own definition he was a nihilist

>> No.20676229

>>20676223
Stop talking about things you haven't read. Just go back to /pol/ and cry about niggers all day. We know that's your only talent.

>> No.20676235

>>20675825
Haven't even read it confirmed

>> No.20676256

>>20676219
It's good he has the honesty to admit he is wrong by default.
>>20676220
Nietzsche was a simpleton, simple mistakes only require simple corrections.
>>20676229
Nietzsche himself admits that he is a nihilist in Ecce Homo and Will to Power.

>> No.20676261

>>20676256
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52190/52190-h/52190-h.htm

Go ahead. Quote me the sentence where Nietzsche calls himself a nihilist, or moreover says nihilism is ideal.

I already did it for you: he doesn't call himself a nihilist, and literally every mention of the word is in a negative light.

Care to try again? Please, I beg of you, stop talking about things you haven't read.

>> No.20676278

>>20676261
Will to Power, aphorism 15, "From this standpoint, nihilism, as the denial of a world of truth and of being, might be a divine way of thinking..."

aphorism 22: "Nihilism as a sign of an increase in mental power..."

aphorism 25: "The courage to face what we already know comes late in life. I have only quite recently admitted to myself that I was the quintessential nihilist all along: the energy and radicalism with which I progressed as a nihilist deceived me about this fundamental fact. When we are making progress towards a goal, it is hard to believe that our fundamental tenet is "strictly speaking, there are no goals."

Cope.

>> No.20676330

>another thread for people who haven't read N to debate people who didn't understand him about whether it is based and redpilled to agree with him or not

>> No.20676343

>>20676278
>When we are making progress towards a goal, it is hard to believe that our fundamental tenet is "strictly speaking, there are no goals."
You are too dumb to parse this and probably think trinitarian theology (three people are one person) is le profound esoteric truth

>> No.20676541

>>20675864
Yes and Culture is made by aristocrats, not chuds/normies.

>> No.20676590
File: 1.09 MB, 1082x420, nihlists.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20676590

You idiot, that's exactly what Nietzsche predicted; that the death of belief in God would lead to widespread nihilism and utter decadence (which he was very strongly against). His idea was to provide an alternative culture that would give a purpose and result in the strengthening of humanity.

That's probably one of the most basic themes of his work, how can you not be aware of it? Why are there people replying to this thread that aren't aware of it???

>> No.20676611

Atheism doesn't mean an absence of belief. Neet warned about what kind of monsters can arise to fill the God-shaped hole.

>> No.20676618

>>20676590
And his idea was a failure? Where is the artistic elite who he accepted his philosophy? They don’t exist. People accept his philosophy and go insane.

Nietzsche did fantasy as philosophy in my eyes.

>> No.20676634

>>20676618
>And his idea was a failure?
You could also say Christianity was a failure, by that logic. Anyway, I think that he was aware that his ideas wouldn't catch on, but the alternative was too horrible for him to fathom, and so he was compelled to go against the odds and to put his efforts into attempting to steer humanity away from the cliff-edge. Quite a task for one man

>> No.20676635

>>20676343
Cope.

>> No.20676645

>>20676634
No, I couldn’t actually. Christianity wasn’t an attempt to cope without God so I don’t know how you could possibly think this.

>> No.20676662

>>20675804
he was proven wrong after larping as an ubermensch and then losing his mind when seeing a hecking horserino get a beating

>> No.20676701
File: 11 KB, 300x181, ellul-charbonneau-together-300x181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20676701

>>20675804
>On the contradiction between ends and means, and on the lack of any finality to technological growth, see mainly B. Charbonneau: "When it comes to human ends that might guide a plan, we have to content ourselves with pious generalities about a society ‘in which man need only assert himself for the inner satisfaction of his being.' But in regard to the concrete aspects of France in 1985, we learn that she will be ‘developed.' Always along the same lines. . . . What is the goal of economic growth? Economic growth."Likewise, Mumford demonstrates at length that the sole conceivable and real finality of "technics" is the augmentation of power. There is absolutely no other possibility. This brings us back to the problem of the means. Technology is the most powerful means and the greatest ensemble of means. And hence, the only problem of technology is that of the indefinite growth of means, corresponding to man's spirit of power. Nietzsche, exalting this will to power, limited himself to preparing the man predisposed to the technological universe! A tragic contradiction.

>> No.20676710

>>20675825
>nietzsche thought there was no inherent meaning in life
This is an inversion of what he thought and he spent a huge amount of time combating precisely this type of pessimism.

>inherent meaning
No such thing for Nietzsche. His perspectivism renders meaning as being derived from multiplicity. Further, this meaning-making process is a constant to him. Even when one feels the world is meaningless, that feeling itself is a meaning being projected onto the world, particularly from a will that is sick and in the process of withering away.

>>20675804
Modern society proves him right. Today we have an invisible elite that the masses are unable to detect—not the wealthy celebrities, but the extremely ambitious and intellectual people who travel the world, never waste time on pointless leisurely pursuits, and utilize modern technology to found new enterprises and change the world in vast yet subtle ways. To contrast this, we have the average masses indulging themselves daily on the fruits of that elite, and the deeply resentful who live spitefully on social media 24/7 and spam it with their neurotic propaganda. Nietzsche mapped all this out for us and advocated for this spiritual hierarchy.

>> No.20676720

>>20676710
>he spent a huge amount of time combating precisely this type of pessimism
that is exactly anon's point. nietzsche kept trying to find ways of giving meaning to life, because he saw life as inherently meaningless.

>> No.20676735

>>20676720
Anon's point is retarded and makes no sense.

>> No.20676754

>>20676735
it makes total sense. if nietszche thought life had meaning, he would have said that he was trying to discover that meaning. but he always clearly stated that he was trying to give life meaning, not discover its meaning. that implies that he viewed life as not having inherent meaning, as meaning had to be given to it.

>> No.20676758

>>20676754
You're retarded too. Why is this board full of retards now? I miss 2012-2014.

>> No.20676759

>>20675824
We don't need any more of these
/Thread

>> No.20676761

>>20676758
that's an interesting way of saying that you have no argument

>> No.20676770

>>20676645
Idiot

>> No.20676778

>>20675804
The most degenerate people in our society are Christian though? The majority of liberals are Christian. Christians are nothing like Christ, like Nietzsche said, and are more closer to their socialist brothers. In the quest of conversion, they reject master values for slave values. Everybody wants to be conformable and the same. No one wants to challenge themselves anymore without the fear of upsetting the herd. Christians are not even stoic anymore. Far from Seneca, they've become needful pillards they see domination and control by officials.

>> No.20676780

>>20675804
>we're more atheist than ever and were in a worse spot than we've ever been in. Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created. indulgence just leads to a petty, niggerish hell.
so he predicted everything and he was right, but you didn't even bother to study him ourside of some christian general on /pol/

>> No.20676879

>>20676778
>are more closer to their socialist brothers.
exactly how christ and the apostles preached

>> No.20676937

>>20676770
You don’t have a reply so you have to resort to name calling.

>> No.20676959

>>20676778
>Everybody wants to be conformable and the same. No one wants to challenge themselves anymore without the fear of upsetting the herd.
Sure but compare the Christian west to other cultures in history or the other main civilization, China. Most are even more obsessed with conformity than the Christian west. It's in the Christian west that the next level of creative enterprises and formal ideas of individualism developed.
You can say it's the inherent higher quality and independence of the people but people like that would need some glue to help them conform and cooperate. China values conformity so highly because it has benefits.

>> No.20676968

>>20675825
Lack of inherent meaning isn't the philosophical definition of nihilism. That's pessimism. Nihilism is the belief that values lack justification, which commonly is the consequence of a sense of comprehensive meaninglessness

>> No.20676988

>>20676778
If I believe in a Luciferian worldview, make concessions to pagan religions, atheism, buddhism, all essential assumptions which are in contradiction with necessary Christian assumptions, but I wear a cross, am I a Christian?

>> No.20676999

I have pretty much accepted that Nietzsche was wrong about the death of God and what to do in light of it. I’ve moved on to writers like Ellul and Junger who offer, in my eyes, a more coherent view of nihilism and it’s causes, and to a certain degree, what to do in light of it.

>> No.20677003

>>20675804
>Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created.
lolwut?

>> No.20677276

>>20676968
>Lack of inherent meaning isn't the philosophical definition of nihilism. That's pessimism. Nihilism is the belief that values lack justification, which commonly is the consequence of a sense of comprehensive meaninglessness
no that's backwards

>> No.20677279

>>20677276
No, that is backwards

>> No.20677353

>>20677279
i'm afraid you got that backwards

>> No.20677373

>>20677353
Therefore I must be forwards

>> No.20677628

>>20676229
the eternal nietzsche cope

>> No.20678225

>>20675804
N was a Christian

>> No.20678340

>>20675824
Fpbp, it gets so tiresome.

>> No.20678353

>>20676541
napoleon was a chud. youre coping

>> No.20678384

>>20676220
>I suspect you've never had an original thought in your life.
he says as he uncritically believes everything nietzsche says lol the irony

>> No.20678395

>>20676343
why are nietzschefags incapable of having a good faith discussion? they always just sperg out like this

>> No.20678502

>>20678395
Because Nietzsche himself was incapable of having good faith discussions. Have you read his critiques of other philosophers? It's pretty much always some longwided purple prose ad hominem.

>> No.20678596

>>20676999
this. nietzsche was just a romantic. like hitler said, "He is more an artist than a philosopher"

>> No.20678599
File: 27 KB, 720x420, 1639193667803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20678599

>>20675804
>Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created.

>> No.20678612

>>20678599
is that pic from a rob zombie movie?

>> No.20679433

>>20675804
>we're more atheist than ever
you aren't. czech republic and hungary are far more irreligious (not even strictly atheist) and are based
also nietzsche didn't say "atheism = good", you're a retarded abrahamist cattle unable to understand nietzsche

> Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created.
no. christianity has the dark ages as a direct result

>> No.20679517

>>20675804
we're not even close to living in an age of indulgence. people these days are fucking prudes.

>> No.20679565

>>20675804
Our contemporary degeneracy is a reaction to WW2, I think it's rather orthogonal to religious issues.

>> No.20679728

>>20679433
>dark ages
You mean that time power and population density shifted to the Christian Franks? Was that a dark age for them compared to the peak of Rome when entire tribes in the area were completely removed from existence at the whim of individual Roman generals?
Or do you mean that time Islamic hordes completely destroyed all the classic centers of learning? No you don't mean that, apparently the resulting few decades of consolidation of knowledge after the destruction is a "golden age" and a huge contribution to the world.

>> No.20679833

>>20676754
>if nietszche thought life had meaning, he would have said that he was trying to discover that meaning
We don't "discover" meaning. We create it, endlessly. That's what his perspectivism is about.

>> No.20680658

>>20675825
Well, that seals it, you're defiitely illiterate.

>> No.20680954

>>20675804
lol le christian racists
just fuck the fuck off

>> No.20681114

>>20680658
have you read all of nietzsches books?

>> No.20681127

>>20679728
>Or do you mean that time Islamic hordes completely destroyed all the classic centers of learning?
That's a myth, you're referring to Mongolians.

>> No.20681684

>>20681127
Alexandria, Constantinople, Antioch.
Mongolians did none of it. Both they and the Huns respected knowledge more than muslims.

>> No.20681707

>>20679833
motherfucker are you being dense on purpose?

>> No.20681727

>>20676710
>>nietzsche thought there was no inherent meaning in life
>This is an inversion of what he thought
>>inherent meaning
>No such thing for Nietzsche.
do you retards even read what you write? you try to lecture that anon and then immediately contradict yourself and prove him right

>> No.20681734

>>20675804
>Christianity promotes a sort of stoicism that leads to great things being invented/created.
I beg your fucking pardon?

>> No.20681857

>>20675804
Jesus Christ can you retards read Nietzsche? Just fucking read him and it will answer all your retarded questions, every single one. Unless you are being disingenuous false flagging nigger then fuck off.