/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20619181]

Borges said that English was a richer language for literature than Spanish, but because of his reasons I assume he also thought it was better than French, Portuguese, Italian, and German.

He said that because English is in the weird position of being a Romance and Germanic language, we have two words for most ideas with slightly different meanings--e.g. ghost and spirit, the former being a "dark Saxon" word and the latter being a "light Latin" word. He also says that in English you can do almost anything with verbs and prepositions--e.g. "live up to," "laugh off," "dream away." You can't do this with verbs and prepositions in the Romance languages.

[Anonymous No.20619199]

Where did Borges said that?

[Anonymous No.20619353]

In French, ghost is fantôme and spirit is esprit

[Anonymous No.20619363]

He would be correct in his assumption.

[Anonymous No.20619365]

>>20619181
He's correct.

[Anonymous No.20619400]

>>20619181
>we have two words for most ideas with slightly different meanings--e.g. ghost and spirit
But this also happens in Romance languages, as >>20619353 exemplifies. Also in Spanish, Portuguese and Italian: Fantasma (ghost), Espíritu/Espírito/Spirito (spirit).

>in English you can do almost anything with verbs and prepositions--e.g. "live up to," "laugh off," "dream away." You can't do this with verbs and prepositions in the Romance languages.
This one is legit though.

[Anonymous No.20619445]

>>20619181
>French
No.

[Anonymous No.20619500]

He's right, with the downside being that it's hard to make English sound good. An unwieldy beast.

[Anonymous No.20619525]

Yes, Borges wrote in Spanish because he thought he was "doomed" to be a writer who writes in Spanish.

[Anonymous No.20619590]

>>20619363
The authors have a new paper with somewhat different results:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aaw2594
French seems to come out on top, pic related.

[Anonymous No.20619660]

>>20619590
The results suggest that they have almost identical IRs despite French having a far higher SR. I wouldn't exactly call that "coming out on top"

[Anonymous No.20619693]

>>20619181
I feel like my thoughts are faster, more efficient and more sophisticated when I think in English. Thinking in my native language now feels like using a rusty engine to power a sports car and that's not because of a lack of practice at all. Anyone else?

[Anonymous No.20619963]

>>20619693
No. You are a retarded globalised zoomer/millenial. English is a beautiful language, but so are the romance languages, I would say even more so. We all think grass is greener on the other side, enlglish speakers will see the things spanish has but their language lacks and vice versa.

Read more in your native language and youll discover its just as rich, if not richer, than english. Just because it is not a major language doesnt mean its inferior or that it literature doesnt contain many gems. Remember, english didnt become the lingua franca because of how poetic it is.

[Anonymous No.20619979]

>>20619693
Yeah I feel the same way. I think it's mostly because my higher education has been in English. So I associate with science, literature, etc. If I had went to college in my home country, perhaps I would feel the opposite way.

[Anonymous No.20620049]

Should a native Spanish speaker reread Borges stories in English? I have no clue if he had a hand in translating his work, but I suspect it’s very likely. At the same time, him not doing it to see what’d come up would be peak Borges.

[Anonymous No.20620184]

>>20619963
I don't think you're right. What you wrote was incredibly pretentious and out of touch with the person you responded to. You don't know their life story or trail of experiences that informed their opinion.
>No. You are a retarded globalised zoomer/millenial.
Who are you to make such an assertion? Prove to me that you have the credibility to back up your "insight," or refrain from posting such drivel on this image board.

[Anonymous No.20620199]

>>20619445
Yes. French is a babby tier language. It beats the hell out of Spanish but it can't touch English, the single most technically expressive language in the recorded history of man.

[Anonymous No.20620206]

>>20619181
English has a high skill ceiling but its difficulty curve is atrocious.

[Anonymous No.20620211]

>>20620184
Not that anon but do you know what assumptions are? You hear someone complaining about exercising, you don't need to factor in their circumstance and history to accurately predict/determine they're fat and lazy. You just need to know a pattern and follow it. When you are wrong, It's the exception, not the rule.

[Anonymous No.20620219]

>>20620206
Can you expand on this? As a native speaker I don't understand the difficulty with english outside most english speakers being retards who don't follow their own grammar rules.

[Anonymous No.20620223]

>>20620206
It’s nowhere near as bad as others on difficulty curve. Taught ESL for years. Incredibly easy to pick up, students fly through basic fluency — it’s the ceiling that’s tough because mastery takes such incredibly dexterous command. Also spent years learning moonrunes in nipland, they arguably have a much higher ceiling for “native” command of the language — the subtlety & subtext is ファッキング brutal. Honestly worse than English if I’m comparing what most adult learners are capable of in a 4yr timespan.

[Anonymous No.20620228]

>>20619590
This has to do with encoding efficiency, not richness of language

[Anonymous No.20620272]

>>20619181
It's likely but sadly few people can use the language to its full capabilities. Americans in particular seem to struggle immensely with that, there is no flair, no wit, no ingenuity in their attempts. It's either simple and pathetic or strained and pompous.

[Anonymous No.20620318]

>>20619181
>e.g. ghost and spirit,
fantasma y espiritu

borges loved to piss off argentine nationalist(peronist), don't take his takes on langauge to seriously

[Anonymous No.20620360]

>>20620318
>borges loved to piss off argentine nationalist
The cheeky lad was a shitposter ahead of his time.

[Anonymous No.20620378]

>>20619181
he's right but people speak chav or American now, it's not the same.
English as we knew it is gone.

[Anonymous No.20620595]

[Anonymous No.20620644]

>>20620318
except english also has 'phantom', 'phantasm', and 'poltergeist', so...

[Anonymous No.20620653]

>>20620644
>so...
Why are you typing like a faggot? Do you seriously believe Spanish does not have a bunch of words for some retarded ghosts? EFL-fags I swear...

[Anonymous No.20620694]

>>20619353
In English, fantôme is phantom, esprit is spirit, and then there's ghosts, spectres, and revenants.

[Anonymous No.20620811]

English is great for prose but it's not as good for poetry. It takes real skill to write great poetry in English.

[Anonymous No.20620926]

>>20619181
My God, as if I needed another reason to love Borges. He was an anglophile through and through. Absolute chad.

[Anonymous No.20620935]

>>20620318
You're that same faggot that insists picrel is fake, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.20620950]

>>20620644
>>20620694
Kek
>>20620653
You must be Argentinian

[Anonymous No.20620964]

>>20619693
>>20619963
>>20619979
>>20620211
>>20620184
The real answer is that we think in a more rational way in a foreign language
https://www.wired.com/2012/04/language-and-bias/
>wired
You can find a lot of similar studies using google. see also pic related

[Anonymous No.20621010]

>>20619181
>Borges
Who?

[Anonymous No.20621032]

>>20620811
>It takes real skill to write great poetry
WOAH

[Anonymous No.20621418]

>>20620964
this is why Beckett was such a great writer

[Anonymous No.20621470]

>>20619500
This, English has the highest highs but if used poorly it can be monstrously ugly.

[Anonymous No.20621552]

>>20620653
>Do you seriously believe Spanish does not have a bunch of words for some retarded ghosts?
Provide examples.

[Anonymous No.20621581]

>>20621552
Coco

[Anonymous No.20622039]

>>20621418
Beckett's Trilogy reads MUCH nicer in his English translations, funnily enough.

[Anonymous No.20622078]

>>20620199
>It beats the hell out of Spanish

In what, making gay sounds? Certainly not in beauty, vocabulary or its expressive capacity.

[Anonymous No.20622081]

>>20619181
Learning of this guy made my life worse.

[Anonymous No.20622099]

>>20622078
>Lists off the most vague concepts without any elaboration.
So much cope kek. French absolutely moggs that lispy, insufferable noise called 'Spanish'.

[Anonymous No.20622130]

>>20622099
Rioplatense Spanish (ie the one Borges spoke) is ten times better than French.

[Anonymous No.20622140]

>>20622130
>Unironically uses the word 'better' to comapre languages.
>Still doesn't elaborate

Seethe and dilate.

[Anonymous No.20622143]

>>20622099
At least that's more of an argument than anything you've said so far. French happens to be the official language of a long-gone empire with an incredible cultural influence, but what merit does that ugly, effeminate, snot-in-throat sounding language have by itself?

[Anonymous No.20622149]

>>20622143
It's not an argument, faggot. You can't just describe your own language as 'more beautiful' or 'more expressive' without explaining how it has the edge on french, or in what ways french lacks compared to spanish. Add to this your repeated, petulant description of french as 'effeminate'. It's very clear you're seething adn coping because Spanish is indeed the jeet tongue of European languages. Nowhere near as influential nor has it produced such timeless literary masterpieces compared to German, French, English, Italian etc. Keep coping kek.

[Anonymous No.20622190]

>>20622149

A lot of buzzwords to say absolutely nothing. Typical zoomer. You were the one who said French “beats the hell” out of Spanish and I keep asking you for an explanation. French literature and its influence exist by France being (in the past, not anymore) a great country not because of French, not because of that disgusting, vomit-inducing, nasal disaster that is the French language.

[Anonymous No.20622240]

>>20622140
>Still doesn't elaborate
I don’t need to.

[Anonymous No.20622453]

>>20619199
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxzQSheCkc

[Anonymous No.20622454]

>>20619199
>>20622453
Around 17:20

[Dago No.20622461]

>>20619181
>Mitchell Heisman was right
>it’s all just Anglo-Saxons vs Normans

[Anonymous No.20622566]

>>20622453
>Spanish is a kind of lame language,

Borges says around the 29 minute mark. Holy fuck this guy was giga based.

[Anonymous No.20622617]

>>20620049
The commercially available English translations are trash. There is a translation of his fiction done by a friend of his in collaboration with Borges, but Borges' widow blocks it from republication. You'll have to pirate it if you want to try it.

[Anonymous No.20622633]

>>20622617
Nah that's pure Reddit cope. I've the widely available translations and the Giovanni or whatever the fucks name was and there is no real difference in quality between them. They are both serviceable translations. The only people I hear parrot Borges opinions are clueless monolingual anglophones.

[Anonymous No.20622695]

>>20619181
He liked German better than English actually
>>20619525
True. "My fate is the bronze of Quevedo..."
Shoulda pulled a Pessoa.

[Anonymous No.20622716]

>>20620935
Not that anon but I've seen that pic used to argue a point Borges isn't making
Note that it doesn't say the translation is unfaithful to the original

[Anonymous No.20622738]

>>20619693
What >>20619979 said, at least in my case. I've heard/read lengthier, more elaborate arguments in english, so sometimes I default to the language. I don't think it's inherent to the language itself.
I do miss some stuff from english sometimes when I talk in my native tongue. Mostly smashing words together.
What >>20619963 said is also right. Expose yourself to more intrincate language in your mother tongue.

[Anonymous No.20622744]

Many posters are completely ignorant of Borges mindset and works.

Why did he chose specifically the words for ghost/spirit? Because he was balls deep into the english ghost stories and had a casual interest for the weird and strange stuff. This great interview >>20622453 shows something of Borges that not that many appreciate in the whole extension: he was an angloboo. (in the interview he trashes Tolkien kek)

On his father (Jorge Guillermo) we can find the following in the wiki:

>Borges had maternal ancestral roots in Staffordshire, England. A cultivated man, he read fluently in English, was an agnostic, a skeptic, and had a deep interest in metaphysics. At the homes where he settled with his wife and family both in Palermo and Geneva, he kept a large library offering his children a complex and profound universe. On those bookshelves, young Jorge Luis and Norah could find important works in English literature: Stevenson, Hawthorne, Wells, Coleridge, Kipling, De Quincey, Poe, and Melville. His son would later remark that "if I were asked to name the chief event in my life, I should say my father's library."[4][5][6]

In my opinion, Borges lived in a contradiction between one side of this roots and the fact that the other sides were some sort of mistery meat to some extent. Considering yourself high class from one side, but in the other unavoidably argentinan.

[Anonymous No.20622747]

>>20622633
you dont understand what made giovannis translations superior. better timing dextrousness and understanding of borges interests. the other translations are merely serviceable and have weird mixes of british and american conventions

[Anonymous No.20622775]

>>20622744
An angloboo is right. What did he say about Tolkien?

[Anonymous No.20622789]

>>20622747
Suck my dick pseud. I'm a native Spanish speaker. I'm immunized to your appeals to authority.

[Anonymous No.20622826]

>>20622789
that explains why ur such a low horizons faggot. the spanish languages uniformity kills the sense of beauty nordics, blessed by God, can tap into

[Anonymous No.20622827]

>>20622775
is not the only instance of this stuff in his life

[Anonymous No.20622834]

>>20622775
>>20622827
ah so the old coot was going too senile to appreciate the purest adventure tale ever created

[Anonymous No.20622892]

>>20622081
why?

[Anonymous No.20622929]

>>20622827
kek, that's too bad, but not unexpected

[Anonymous No.20623867]

>>20622834
Tolkein betrayed his writers instinct by creating a moralfag tale.
I'm convinced that no writer who writes regardless of money or outside interests does so to spin a moral tale. It's not believable. It maybe a good book, but it's clear he's writing for a specific audience. Happens a lot to christian writers. They end up just copy pasting the bible at the end.

[Anonymous No.20624441]

>>20623867
wtf are you blabbering about tranny? its good plain and simple

[Anonymous No.20624457]

>>20622827
Extremely based

[Anonymous No.20625028]

>>20622039
Funnily enough I disagree. The French version is much better and L'Innommable makes more sense than The Unnamable

[Anonymous No.20625142]

>>20622827
>>20619181
>>20620318
Borges was a filthy leftist, don't take anything he says seriously

[Anonymous No.20625217]

>>20624441
there will be a time where 4channel will just be a site where every single discussion will be a troon insult. The 0.1% of the world that are troons will all be gathered to call each other troons all day, on every board.
/g/ will be about troons.
/k/ will be about troons.
/b/ will be about troons.
/tv/ will be about troons.
/his/ will be about the 5 troons that existed before the internet
/mu/ will be about troons.
/sci/ will be about troons.
/trv/ will be about visiting other troons.
/wp/ will be about downloading troons.
/ck/ will be about troons.
One day, a pol user will want to know how to fix a broken machine in his house and he will ask 4channel for assisstance. He will be met with a comment about troons. Then he will call the poster a troon. Then his proud pol initiate daughter, taught to type in 'bbc' on their American computer as soon as humanly possible will accidentally cause a house-fire trying to impress her father who couldn't be there. Such is life.
Such is troonposting. She didn't understand what it meant to be american. What a pity. He called her a troon.
His wife (male) runs into him outside the burning home.
"So?"
"You wouldn't understand." "Troonposting is a way of life here, she couldn't hack it..." They hated troons. But they couldn't live without them. They logged on to the number ONE troon site to talk about them all day.
On his deathbed, he was about to tell his wife (male) something profound. Instead he went, his mouthful of burger, "Pass... computer..."
He typed on the keyboard with withered old man fingers clacking ever so pathetically. *clack* *clack* *clack*
"kys retard faggotscum" he posted on /an/.
Then he died. It was all worth it.

[Anonymous No.20625283]

>>20619181
IMO arguing over which language is best for "literature" is like arguing over which is the best car ever.
Best car for what? A 4X4 Off-roader and a F1 racecar are not the same thing, beyond both being cars.
English is a great language and I love it, but who in their right minds would declare it richer than Spanish just because it's different?

[Anonymous No.20625289]

>>20619693
Portuguese always felt more difficult for me, despite being my native language. Might be because my school only ever had us read European Portuguese books and I am originally from Brazil, so something felt off and janky about the writing, but I really feel like reading articles in Portuguese has some added difficulty compared to reading in English.

[Anonymous No.20625297]

>>20619181
English because the internet will forever now be in English. The world is now Anglo.
"Hello World";
ah runs like new
"Hola Mundo";
guatdafaq.exe has crashed

[Anonymous No.20625306]

>>20620223
Japanese is fucking absurd. I've met engineers from Japan who forget relatively common Kanji all the time, and they lived there their whole lives ffs.

[Anonymous No.20625311]

>>20625297
I wish it wasn't, americans being nuclearly obsessed with politics renders the english language in a repetitively awful light

[Anonymous No.20625315]

>>20622143
French sounds extremely masculine when spoken by a proper man. It's reputation as a language of love and for fashionistas is it's true weakness; it's the language of soldiers and butchers.

[Anonymous No.20625328]

>>20619181
I agree, English allows for the fullest expression.

[Anonymous No.20625332]

>>20619400
>Fantasma
Phantom.

[Anonymous No.20625339]

I have lived in an anglo country for ten years now and my native language just sounds super clunky (structure/grammar wise) whenever I either read or hear it, the flow of English is just so much smoother in comparison. I think the above mentioned thing about using verbs as nouns and vice versa has a lot to do with it, as well as the lack of declension

[Anonymous No.20625345]

>>20622744
Anglo-Argentines are actually a relatively sizable and used to be a pretty influential group in Argentina. My paternal family were part of that bubble so I got a weird look into it.
The railways, rugby, polo, and even fucking Harrods was brought to Argentina with Brits. Patagonia was also extensively settled by British sheep herders (and the Selknam were genocided to make way for them). 4000 Argentines joined the British forces in WWII too, because of their family ties. Anya Taylor-Joy is nowadays the most famous example of a literal British-Argentine, but before her the Argentine national football team had a captain literally called Babington.
Frankly, if it wasn't the whole Falklands-Malvinas nonsense, the two countries would probably have a decent relationship.

[Anonymous No.20625363]

>>20625311
Do you honestly think "obsession with politics" is some uniquely American trait?
In Argentina you can still get into fistfights when arguing over fucking Rosas, who died in the 1800s. In Mexico it's even worse, bringing up assorted civil wars and the revolution never ends well.
Or hell, the mother country, Spain. Franco's legacy, Catalan nationalism, the ETA, etc. all guaranteed ways to start a shitstorm in a Spanish family gathering

[Anonymous No.20625408]

>>20625363
not uniquely american, no, in britbong you see the worst headlines you can possibly imagine written by the Guardian, Daily Mail etc. but people (not boomers who still memorise and spit back out the headlines) don't react to the news that much here. In America, the news machine is on a whole other level.
You cannot escape Biden/Trump talk.
Perhaps if I learnt Spanish or was Spanish etc. I would not hear the end of Franco or whomever, but Americans don't even treat it like a conversation. It's just "trump bad", "biden bad" "gays good" "gays bad".
It doesn't mean anything, it's all just sludge pumped out by newscasters.

[Anonymous No.20625512]

>>20625315
Example please

[Anonymous No.20625527]

Retarded take, English is the best for philosophy as it promotes clarity of thought. At least compared to German and French.
For literature, however, Russian is superior to both.

[Anonymous No.20625599]

>>20625512
I honestly wish I could provide you with a video, but I never recorded my experiences with having a French boxer verbally abusing our entire gym and humiliating us at every turn in the ring

[Anonymous No.20625621]

>>20625599
You should anon, you should

[Anonymous No.20625628]

>>20619181
Borges is part-English and his grave is marked with Saxon designs so he might have some bias there, however he still deeply loved Spanish culture, literature, and language and was never really too overtly pro-England over anything else. I believe you OP

[Anonymous No.20626311]

>>20622453
What's this?

[Anonymous No.20626721]

>>20626311
The greatest interview you're ever going to listen to. What I would've done to have a long, LONG. conversation with Borges.

[Anonymous No.20626798]

>>20620219
English is more chaotic because it was basically a naturally occurring language in England, which was tiny until the 17th century which then massively proliferated and was never centralised
While most big languages are a central dialect like Castilian, Parisian French, high German which has then been aggressively imposed on dialect speakers by the central government
while that never happened with english because it was always completely intelligible

[Anonymous No.20626814]

>>20626798
From chaos comes beauty.

>His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.

Perfect admixture of Germanic, Norse and Romance.

[Anonymous No.20627333]

>>20621552
Fantasma, espíritu, espectro, aparición, ánima

[Anonymous No.20627363]

>>20627333
All the romance languages have those words kek. But they don't have the equivalent for 'Ghost' - Old English gāst (in the sense ‘spirit, soul’), of Germanic origin. Dark, gritty, primordial - god Borges was 10/10 on the money here. Love the guy.

[Anonymous No.20627823]

>>20619181

As a native Brazilian Portuguese speaker who was also exposed to English from a very young age I mostly agree with Borges.

I envy the flexibility of English and the two roots of the vocabulary of the language.

Yet here in Brazil Portuguese has a lot of words to use other than the main ones that derived from Latin. We have thousands of words that came from African and Indigenous roots, which is actually quite interesting and exiting.

I also think that Portuguese (the Brazilian one) is more beautiful sounding than English.

But the fact remains that we don’t have the same flexibility to convert nouns to verbs, verbs to nouns, to fuse two words in one, etc as English does.

I have read that Greek is even more flexible than both German and English, and I love the stony sound of it. I wish I knew the language to talk about it more properly.

[Anonymous No.20627833]

>>20627363
fantasma has the excact same application than ghost

[Anonymous No.20627838]

>>20620644
that's moving the golpoast, the argument is that spanish doens't have two words for the same thing, which is false on a fundamental level

[Anonymous No.20627865]

>>20627833
All those words have similar applications, but that isn't the point Borges is making. He's not arguing from utility, but texture, sonority etc. - those qualities preceding and underlying language's utility. See, romance fags can't grasp that concept, as Borges rightly points out, and that you've demonstrated, since everything seems to come back to 'application'. No. It's about much more than that.

>Tell me, tell me, tell me, elm! Night night! Telmetale of stem or stone. Beside the rivering waters of, hitherandthithering waters of. Night!

Has language been adequately 'applied' here? Or is Joyce going for something far more primordial and earthly and 'material' than language as mere utility? He's touching on the musicality of it, of which only English is capable of. You COULDN'T translate this into Spanish or French, for example. They're too inferior for that.

[Anonymous No.20627900]

>>20619181
anglos will never know the ontological bliss that the semantic dichotomy between "ser" and "estar" bring to the human intellect , castellano is the fastes path to satori

[Anonymous No.20627911]

>>20627865
again that's just not true lol
spanish has tons of words from the arabic language, and that's only european spanish, if we go by american spanish each country has african and indigenous words

[Anonymous No.20627930]

>>20627865
>>Tell me, tell me, tell me, elm! Night night! Telmetale of stem or stone. Beside the rivering waters of, hitherandthithering waters of. Night!
you really think spanish doesn't have his own way of talking in a overcomplicated and forced manner?

[Anonymous No.20628004]

>>20627930
No. Anthimeria is impossible in romance languages. They're too rigid and soulless, unironically. Also,

>overcomplicated and forced manner

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.20628021]

>>20627865
It works both ways. Gracian cannot be translated to English just like Joyce cannot be translated to Spanish.

[Anonymous No.20628048]

>>20628004
>Anthimeria is impossible in romance languages.
That is completely untrue.

[Anonymous No.20628078]

>>20628004
Wow what a retard

[Anonymous No.20628095]

>>20628021
Joyce is perfectly translatable to Spanish. Do Anglo fags really think they have a monopoly on stream of consciousness and wordplay? Basic fucking blue collar workers in Spanish speaking countries shit out wordplay on a daily basis that would make Joyce envious.

[Anonymous No.20628116]

>>20619353
Not the same. Fantome sounds light just like esprit does, while ghost is a dim monosyllabic word with a much different feeling.

[Anonymous No.20628157]

>>20628095
pure spic cope omg kek

[Anonymous No.20628159]

>>20619693
I don't really verbally think of things in that way. Seems really slow and inefficient. I mostly think in images. I also have a photographic memory

[Anonymous No.20628164]

>>20628021
Jesus, Spanish really has offered the world nothing beyond Cervantes and Gracian kek. Hundreds of years of tumbleweed. What a worthless tongue.

[Anonymous No.20628176]

>>20628048
>doesn't elaborate

larping faggots like you should be ip banned.

[Anonymous No.20628185]

>>20627865
>>20627930

What Borges hints at, which frankly doesn't exist now anyway because the languages spoken by 90% of the populace are either chav, deano or american english,
is that the English temperament used to come out beautifully in the language in a deeply natural way. Afaik,
Germanic --> stubborn, unsexy
Latin --> romantic colouring
It paired very well with the old character of the English which was a private romantic.
it's like the show Deadwood on HBO, people in England don't speak English any more, just like how the Americans speak American and not English.
The tonal shift has been so drastic.
People will think you are schizo for mentioning slightly abstruse county phrases, unless you are an old man living in a village of 100 and can get away with it.

[Anonymous No.20628198]

>>20628185
>because the languages spoken by 90% of the populace are either chav, deano or american english
You clearly haven't been to England. Regional dialects are still very prominent, as is British English faithful to its figureheads - Thomas Browne, Shakespeare etc.

[Anonymous No.20628228]

>>20628198
Don't patronise me, I'm from regional England, in fact one of the most backwater places in norf.
Regional dialects do not exist the same way they did. It's a lie, or a false hope you are spreading.
People here, sans the old, are plainly illiterate to the regional talk.
Every other word is 'fook' and every other is american english. Unless you are in the black country, I decline your position.

[Anonymous No.20628269]

>>20628228
>I'm from regional England

Just from that sentence alone I know you're larping kek. The rest of your screed is also patently false. Can you name me 'american english' words that have supplanted any 'british' ones? I'll wait.

[Anonymous No.20628283]

>>20628176
Where did you elaborate anything? You are only bostejando this entire thread (this is a portuguese anthimeria, in case you are too dumb to notice)

[Anonymous No.20628289]

>>20628269
an unusually base response from a literature board. Allow me to return the favour. Get fucked.

[Anonymous No.20628298]

>>20628289
>Still no examples

Whoops.

[Anonymous No.20628311]

>>20628283
Nobody cares about portuguese my guy. Anyway, bostejando literally just means boasting. What's been transformed? You have to 'verbalize' a noun, or any other such transformation, faggot.

[Anonymous No.20628319]

>>20619181
>>20622744
I knew very little of Borges before coming and reading all of his stories.
He immediately comes as a angloboo, francoboo a little too I guess but mostly English.

[Anonymous No.20628323]

>>20628095
not perfectly translatable at all.

how would you translate
> What then agentlike brought about that tragoady thundersday
> this municipal sin business? Our cubehouse still rocks as earwitness
> to the thunder of his arafatas but we hear also through successive
> ages that shebby choruysh of unkalified muzzlenimiissilehims that
> would blackguardise the whitestone ever hurtleturtled out of
> heaven. Stay us wherefore in our search for tighteousness, O Sus-
> tainer, what time we rise and when we take up to toothmick and
> before we lump down upown our leatherbed and in the night and
> at the fading of the stars! For a nod to the nabir is better than wink
> to the wabsanti. Otherways wesways like that provost scoffing
> bedoueen the jebel and the jpysian sea. Cropherb the crunch-
> bracken shall decide. Then we'll know if the feast is a flyday. She
> has a gift of seek on site and she allcasually ansars helpers, the
> dreamydeary.
the puns here while retaining the basic structure of the word? it cant be done in line with even obscure spanish words.

[Anonymous No.20628324]

>>20628319
What a disgusting cover holy shit.

[Anonymous No.20628328]

>>20628323
Ignore him. He's an ESL faggot in full cope mode.

[Anonymous No.20628346]

>>20628311
>bostejando literally just means boasting
What the fuck gave you that idea? I'm genuinely perplexed. Bostejar means to talk a lot of crap, it is the verbalization of the noun bosta. Which means crap, I must clarify, because otherwise you might consult whatever retarded dictionary you're using and understand it completely wrong again.

[Anonymous No.20628362]

>>20628323
>>20628328
right. some of them are translatable, and that matches to spanishs 30% similrity with english, but many arent

[Anonymous No.20628368]

>>20628328
>b-b-b-b-but he's Mexican
cannot wait until the Mexicans outbreed everyone on the west coast. Every muh white American should be hauled to Texas or NYC and compete in a school deathmatch

[Anonymous No.20628378]

>>20628346
Bruh are you retarded? Anthimeria is a very specific transformation in the English language. 'Bostejar' is a meaningless word and nobody in Portugal or Brazil would recognize it if you said it. But Anthimeria in English is like a natural effect of its logic, whereas you're literally just breaking the rules kek to produce nonsense. no no no you need to go back. This is why Portuguese is a worthless tongue.

[Anonymous No.20628390]

>>20628362
Holy kek you're coping very hard right now.

[Anonymous No.20628405]

>>20628283
>>20628311
i disagree, portuguese is interesting as fuck in its global enrichment. i will gas all bad tier niggerisms though.

bostejando is interesting as a skimmed advantage word, and fully appropriate. who are more pathetic in their vainglory aggression horniness and wannabe white supremacy than the brazilians?

[Anonymous No.20628425]

>>20628390
no im the guy who posted the joyce text. unkalified as a pun can be translated in both languages equivalently, and so are many puns there. dreamydeary not so much, as spanish words for dream dont match, much less their use of words for dream are rather fucked.

[Anonymous No.20628428]

>>20628378
>'Bostejar' is a meaningless word and nobody in Portugal or Brazil would recognize it if you said it
There you go bostejando again lol. Literally any native portuguese speaker instantly understands what is meant by it.

[Anonymous No.20628440]

>>20628378
youre wrong. anthimeria was always involved in wordplay, and has been used by authoritative institutions scholars for things like shakespearean coinages. furthermore, bostejar is a familiar word for lusophones

[Anonymous No.20628447]

>>20627865
by your own deffinition spanish should have even more sonority and texture, since it uses words from two different linguistic roots, indoeuropean from latin and semitic from arab, while english uses words from the same indoeuropean root, germanic and latin
also spanish also has a ton of germanic words from the visigoth empire that ruled there for centuries

[Anonymous No.20628455]

>>20628323
each language has untranslatable sentences, taht doesn't prove that english has more "fluidity", just that is different

[Anonymous No.20628465]

>>20628455
are you fucking kidding... english is the exact language that draws from the most languages while having the most amount of sounds for poeticisms. my dudes right you are coping hard.

[Anonymous No.20628478]

>>20628465
My friend, you must be new to this board. This place is littered with ESL fags who'll take any opportunity to seethe and dilate over English. You'll see phrases like this often,

>English is soulless compared to *insert preferred language*

[Anonymous No.20628500]

>>20628478
no aussie, porridge, south african or bong would ever use the term ESL so I can only assume you are a burger, in which case,
you speak quite literally the most diluted form of english possible, ironic.

[Anonymous No.20628528]

>>20627865
romance languages uses enalages

quevedo:
>onions un fue, y un será, y un es cansado
> i am a [it]'had been' and a [it] 'will be' and a 'to be' [or a it is] tired

[Anonymous No.20628531]

>>20628478
no im an oldhead in my 30s, and this is one of the handful of threads i didnt filter. for years i filtered esl threads and ignored most shitposters. this is literally my first conscious interaction with an eslcel.

[Anonymous No.20628650]

>>20619181
>>English is not the best language
you plebs use the KINGS to discredit the KINGS

hehe

[Anonymous No.20628727]

anglos still coping to this day that Borges decided to write in Spanish lmao

[Anonymous No.20629385]

>>20628478
You're a mutt anon, you wouldn't recognize proper english even if it shat on your bed

[Anonymous No.20629513]

>>20628159
You do need to verbalize your thoughts to solve logical and mathematical problems better

[Anonymous No.20630248]

>>20619525
>...y su epitafio la sangrienta luna

[Anonymous No.20630429]

>>20628319
He didn't like the french language much. He probably did appreciate the culture though.
>>20628324
DeBolsillo's covers are usually pretty ass.

[Anonymous No.20630452]

>>20628095
Anon come on, you can defend the merits of the language without going this far

[Anonymous No.20630482]

>>20628298
He came with one...

[Anonymous No.20630495]

>>20628185
>People will think you are schizo for mentioning slightly abstruse county phrases, unless you are an old man living in a village of 100 and can get away with it.
Gimme some writings in the old tongue if you know some.
The same is happening much stronger in denmark. My grandma spoke completely different Danish

[Anonymous No.20630526]

>>20619500
>>20626814
>>20628185
>>20620811
Most English writing sucks not because of a deficiency in the language but because most English speakers simply have no ear for rhythm or for beauty. It's a taste issue, not a linguistic one.

[Anonymous No.20630584]

>>20619181
>we have two words for most ideas with slightly different meanings
But English also has one word for two meanings, for example: to know.
Portuguese: Saber and Conhecer.
French: Connaître and Savoir
German: Kennen and Wissen
etc.
Every language have their weird shit.

[Anonymous No.20630593]

>>20619363
>>20619590
People shit on mandarin literature all the time whilr praising french, german and russian literature. English is somewhere in between and has to thank mostly the US and British by extent for the popularity of its literature.
This also seems to correlate with word / symbol length in relation to some kind of meaningful unit as information as a very major component of the method; look at super compounding Hungarian at the very bottom for density and German close following.
That aside, this is essentially linguistic circle jerking which isn’t significant to literature at all, barely relevant to philology.

And neuroscience isn‘t even remotely where they‘d need to be to prove this. What is defined here as information, is just information without any word form significant, is information always relevant to words, experience?
What do we care about density further when memory and retention is considered? I can only remember so much and it is doubtful whether more or less dense “information” would be advantageous with how memory works, one might create long strings while the other creates point isolates…
But most importantly we still move within the frame of language where developed language alone might anyway no matter which it is be sufficient to express anything and the time needed to read differs so little that it’d be hardly relevant to consider it, might never be brought to the limit of what we can do with language in ordinary use and literature that doesn’t purposefully deny significant parts of language to reach this border.

Also, none of you, me included, have read the fucking paper and a diagram without paper, without reference and without expertise and a degree is worth jack shit.

[Anonymous No.20630607]

>>20625289
>Might be because my school only ever had us read European Portuguese books
Machado de Assis and Jorge Amado are Portuguese now?

[Anonymous No.20630616]

>>20630593
english in england became less and less 'for the sake of speaking' as time went on, before television and social media it was a way of telling people who you were alongside what you were trying to direct them towards.
Much to think about

[Anonymous No.20631886]

>>20626721
>Borges
And who's that?

[Anonymous No.20631997]

>>20619181
It's a perpetual makeshift Frankenstein with the most mileage and critique

And that's what makes the best and most versatile

[Anonymous No.20633145]

>>20619181
>ghost and spirit
we too: el espíritu and el ghosto

[Anonymous No.20633169]

a question for you faggots:
if I take one language, let's say Spanish, and then invent a new language called Spanish 2, which is basically Spanish but it includes also all English words, does it make it a better language?
On one hand it would have an absurdly rich vocabulary (and we can keep doing this ad infinitum, or we could also include grammatical rules from other languages, making it even more expressive), one the other hand it would simply be a mutt language.
what's the verdict? should I write using all the languages I know at the same time mixing their grammars and vocabulary?

[Anonymous No.20633477]

>>20633169
it would be limited to spanish phonics which suck, sucks like your mom sucks my dick, and how you suck your moms pussy

[Anonymous No.20633756]

>>20633169
>He doesn't know how languages evolve.

The state of this board kek.

[Anonymous No.20633900]

>>20627823
Br here, I've been studying classical greek for a bit. It's a great language, but far more difficult than English, Portuguese, German, French or any other language I've ever been in contact. It has a wide range of possibilities, and the aorist tense makes it impossible for any faithful translation in most languages.