/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20595617]

As a Catholic I am baffled at how many Catholics fell for the distributism meme.

It's basically a massive LARP, not economically rigorous, and doesn't even really explain how it plans to "widely distribute" property".

[Anonymous No.20595624]

>>20595617
What are some quotes from the bible that say you can be wealthy and go to heaven? Curious to hear it. And the Catholic Church already owns a lot of property that they use to shelter people.

[Anonymous No.20595627]

You’ve never read the bible.
Stop reading the KJV. Read some of this and see what you missed.

[Anonymous No.20595652]

>>20595627
Not OP, but thanks for this. I've been struggling with spirituality and politics, but this might be a good way to resolve it.

[Anonymous No.20595661]

I think Catholicism has become nearly indefensible so a lot of what it means to be a Catholic now is to come up with all sorts of copes to surmount the glaring issues.

[Anonymous No.20595669]

>>20595661
This

[Anonymous No.20595719]

>>20595624
Lol the verse isnt about how rich people are barred from heaven(the Church never taught that), it's about how there's no material way to be saved.

[Anonymous No.20595731]

>>20595617
Belloc is a fraud in himself, extremely francocentric and ignores all of frances anti-catholic, anti-traditional history

[Anonymous No.20595776]

>>20595617

its just liberalism with socialist tendencies diguised as theology of the dead God.

With all due respect to Chesterton, this is not the solution to make Catholicism more suitable for post-modern conditions.

The worst thing to happen to Catholicism still remains Christianity.

[Anonymous No.20595793]

>>20595652
It’s more economics in the context of history, and making the case for debt forgiveness, shows the ancient origins of what later became socialist thought.

[Anonymous No.20595804]

>>20595719
>the Church never taught that
So? Aren't Jesus' words the following?
>Then Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are rich to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 The disciples were astounded on hearing his words, but Jesus insisted: “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 The disciples were even more greatly astonished, and they said to one another, “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “For men it is impossible, but not for God. For God all things are possible.”
NCB, Mark 10

[Anonymous No.20596039]

>>20595804
Yes but the verse isnt about how the rich cant be saved.

[Anonymous No.20596060]

>>20595776
Are you Catholic? How is this a defensible statement?

[Anonymous No.20596074]

I don't understand how distributism is connected to catholicism. Building a society composed of independent yeomen doesn't seem tied to a specific religion.

[Anonymous No.20596075]

>>20596060
I look fondly upon Catholic church and unfondly upon Christianity. I think thats a pretty obvious implication from my previous reply.

[Anonymous No.20596210]

>>20595617
obviously idealist nonsense, educate yourself on the immortal science of marxism-leninism for a real economical education that goes beyond liberalism

[Anonymous No.20596216]

>>20596210
idiot, the sooner marxism leninism is jettisoned the better it will be for workers, marx was a mistake

[Anonymous No.20596225]

>>20596210
Most Tankies I know are even sympathetic to Christianity for some reason. I found even the local “Communist Party” had more respect for Catholics and their soup kitchens than they did for nearly every other kind of socialist that wasn’t ML. Liberation theology is popular for some reason.

[Anonymous No.20596237]

>>20596216
>the better it will be for workers
moralistic nonsense, marxism is not about normative but descriptive statements, applied it can make the unfolding of history intelligible and if the result of the method would be that the future only gets worse for workers than that would be the marxist position.

[Anonymous No.20596242]

>>20596225
yes, a healthy society has room for (traditional) religion but basing your economic model on religious prejudice is not a smart move and you can not change the econmic base voluntarily anyway

[Anonymous No.20596244]

>>20596237
huh?

[Anonymous No.20596269]

>>20595627
I didn't finish this book, but i read parts of it. I don't know why you would recommend this to someone asking about how rich people can go to heaven. It's also written by a Marxist w/ no background in theology or biblical studies.

[Anonymous No.20596327]

>>20596244
what seems to be the problem, mate?

[Anonymous No.20596365]

>>20595617
>As a Catholic
You can stop larping.

[Anonymous No.20596396]

>>20595617
>and doesn't even really explain how it plans to "widely distribute" property".
Chesterton suggested heavy taxation of large hoards of land would force owners to sell said properties, thus doing a land reform through market forces.

I don't entirely buy it. There's no way that lobbying billionaires would ever let something close to a land tax reform happen not in their favor, this is simply idealistic.

Also, as >>20596074 pointed out, there's no actual reason for this to be tied to any specific religion, this coming from a catholic. It's just common sense: If few have all, most people won't have any.

A radical land reform which distributes unproductive property according to the needs of people is still the best way, and this can only be done by force. How? Some say a revolution, some say it'll happen as capitalism collapses. I'm not sure how, but the most obvious way is through expropiation.

[Anonymous No.20596414]

>>20596269
>w/ no background in theology or biblical studies.
Right. And there’s no heaven.

[Anonymous No.20596445]

>>20596225
>for some reason
Both communism and christianity have the same end goals, which is the defeat of unjust, money-centered systems and a classless society under the same guiding principles. They would naturally go hand by hand if it weren't for the Church incapacity to differentiate private from personal property and the Hegelian base of Marxism rejecting any kind of dogma and metaphysics in its entirety.

[Anonymous No.20596447]

You don't think a new planet colony can implement distributism?

[Anonymous No.20596454]

>>20596447
Planetary settlers will be ultra-rich liberals and their associates.

[Anonymous No.20596455]

>>20596447
stop LARPing, mate

[Anonymous No.20596501]

>>20596225
>for some reason.
It’s tradition to rebel against the state and commercial repression. So socialism is the ultimate traditionalism as the bible is full of talk of deror.
The christ is a socialist meme is truer than liberalized christcucks want to believe

The liberal only wanted to free the merchant class to do as they please. It’s the same old tug of war between private and state power.
The anarchist alone wants free of the both of them, so of course the tanky sides with the state power. But the tug of war would continue until people held the balance

[Anonymous No.20596671]

>>20595804
He said that speaking to the fact that rich people tend to become connected with material belongings and the Earthly world rather than the divine.
The idea that you're not going to enter Heaven because your bank account balance is a certain number is idiotic and not what he implied at all.

[Anonymous No.20596897]

>>20595617
>doesn't even really explain how it plans to "widely distribute" property".
you clearly never read:
An Essay on the Restoration of Property by Hilaire Belloc
Toward a Truly Free Market: A Distributist Perspective on the Role of Government, Taxes, Health Care, Deficits, and More by John C. Medaille
The New Agrarian Mind: The Movement Toward Decentralist Thought in Twentieth-Century America by Allan C. Carlson
Reclaiming Catholic Social Teaching by Anthony Esolen

[Anonymous No.20596969]

>>20596237
>moralistic nonsense

yeah, not genociding the proles at the hands of a bourgeois managerial elite is moralistic according to marxist-leninists these days

marxists are the guard dogs for capitalism, and some may even know it

[Anonymous No.20596991]

>>20596445
Marxism has always been hostile to Christianity

[Anonymous No.20597051]

>>20596991
That’s mostly a field of economics, anon. Socialism goes deeper. Marx dismissed them all as utopian. The scientific age brought some reasonable questions and we found religion forever lacking. It’s still a major part of the socialist tradition. It proto-socialist in fact. The hostility is a separate thing belonging to the mature of humanity. Christians still need their stories, their crutch. Fine. But stop worshiping earthly power bases of church and state and the faith of the free market
And technical state, as Ellul went on about

[Anonymous No.20597064]

>>20597051
a major part of the socialist tradition in so far as attempts to erase it

[Anonymous No.20597083]

>>20597064
That’s a modern age eventuality. It’s a dinosaur ideology. We should take all that’s sensible from it though. Tolstoy, Wendell Berry, John Taylor Gatto, hell, even the Pope is currently pro socialist.
You’re not going to convert those who’ve grown out of the superstition, but we can work together.

[Anonymous No.20597096]

>>20596671
If that’s the case, then do rich people have to make a better effort to be connected to the divine because they’re tempted or hold onto materialism more often? Don’t they have to give to the poor if they want to be good? I’m finding this confusing because I talk to people who grew up in Catholic schools, still following some form of religion, and they say this is the meaning behind the Bible’s teachings on wealth and the poor.

Deuteronomy 15:7 If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother.

Deuteronomy 15:11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, “You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.”

1 Samuel 2:7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low and he exalts.

1 Samuel 2:8 He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world.

Psalm 9:18 For the needy shall not always be forgotten, and the hope of the poor shall not perish forever.

Psalm 34:6 This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him and saved him out of all his troubles.

Psalm 35:10 All my bones shall say, “O Lord, who is like you, delivering the poor from him who is too strong for him, the poor and needy from him who robs him?”

Psalm 37:21The wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives.

Psalm 40:17 As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!

Psalm 41:1 Blessed is the one who considers the poor! In the day of trouble the Lord delivers him;

Psalm 72:12 For he delivers the needy when he calls, the poor and him who has no helper.

Proverbs 14:21 Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Proverbs 16:19 It is better to be of a lowly spirit with the poor than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Proverbs 22:9 The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.

Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

[Anonymous No.20597108]

>>20597083
>That’s a modern age eventuality. It’s a dinosaur ideology. We should take all that’s sensible from it though
uhhh what?
>Tolstoy, Wendell Berry, John Taylor Gatto, hell, even the Pope is currently pro socialist
tolstoy was a hippie anarchists that was excommunicated from the orthodoxy church
>Wendell Berry, John Taylor Gatto
literally who
>even the Pope is currently pro socialist
he's not though
>You’re not going to convert those who’ve grown out of the superstition, but we can work together.
they just joined a modern cult there is no "growing out of superstition"

[Anonymous No.20597204]

>>20597083
how would you make Christianity "grow out of superstition", when it fundamentally grows out of superstition? Abrahimic religions without concept of "faith", are essentially not themselves.

[Anonymous No.20597413]

>>20597204
I wouldn’t care, but I would urge the faithful to read their damn books by themselves, sans church, and try to get along with all the big kids who don’t want to be a part of their cult.

>>20597108
>what?
Christianity
> excommunicated from the orthodoxy church
Excellent.
>Literally who
Literally look them up. Farming and education respectively