/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20588276]

How would a debate between them go?

[Anonymous No.20588287]

>>20588276
Definitely with a lot of swearing and disagreements. They'd arrive to the same conclusions about God though since they were both influenced by Feuerbach.

Anyways, I'm actually surprised Nietzsche never knew or said anything about Marx when he lived in a time when Marx was so popular in radical intellectual circles.

[Anonymous No.20588288]

>>20588276
Equality vs aristocracy
Equally retarded

[Anonymous No.20588297]

>>20588276
>What's the most effective way to make love to your boyfriend?

[Anonymous No.20588306]

>>20588297
decided by a live stage performance

[Anonymous No.20588313]

>>20588288

equality underneath an elite ubermensch?

[Anonymous No.20588328]

>Marx: Nigger what are you even trying to accomplish, it'd be really sad that all that cope you just wrote would be ignored among the rest of unintelligibly German prose
>Nietzsche: *Shits his pants and dies of syphilis*

[Anonymous No.20588348]

>>20588313
True, Stalin was more of a great man than Neetsche

[Anonymous No.20588368]

>>20588288
>aristocracy
>>20588313
>underneath
>elite

You did not understand nietzsche

[Anonymous No.20588381]

>>20588368
Wrong, you did not.

[Anonymous No.20588383]

>>20588287

>>Definitely with a lot of swearing and disagreements.
they are both, nihilist, atheist, desperate to be seen as enlightening the masses, and to justify hedonism intellectually

>>20588368
you dont understand nietzsche one bit

[Anonymous No.20588393]

>you don't understand nietzsche one bit

[Anonymous No.20588409]

>>20588393
Supermen post basedjaks instead of arguments on an anonymous forum

[Anonymous No.20588437]

>>20588348
Stalin was a judeo-gangster. He wasn't great.

[Anonymous No.20588439]

>>20588437
How did Stalin not harness the will to power?

[Anonymous No.20588465]

>>20588409
>instead of arguments
You don't either. All you fags say is "YOU DONT UNDERSTAND HIM" OR "QUOTE WHERE HE SAYS THAT"

[Anonymous No.20588546]

>>20588383
>they are both, nihilist,
>Nietzsche
>Nihilist
Retard alert.

[Anonymous No.20588606]

>>20588546
So you admit you've never read him?

[Anonymous No.20588619]

>>20588546
only his retard followers say he wasn't a nihilist
existentialism = nihilism

[Anonymous No.20588639]

>>20588276
Idk, like Zizek vs Peterson? But slightly more intelligent?

[Anonymous No.20588649]

>>20588606
>>20588619
You think women can have penises. Who cares you think about Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.20588659]

>>20588439
Will to power what?
Power for power sake has no teleology on its own.
There's nothing transcendent about this metaphysical power dialectic. Hence Nietzsche's cope of Eternal Recurrence as a phony means to add tautological meaning to an ultimately nihilistic pursuit of apotheosis (another example of sophisticated nihilism).

[Anonymous No.20588676]

>>20588659
The "Ubermensch" is just the Universe's greatest liar.
If that is the case, then I'd will God into an Universe where God doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.20588678]

>>20588276
Who cares? Fans of both would claim that none of us could understand it.

[Anonymous No.20588688]

>>20588676
>muh feelings

[Anonymous No.20588694]

>>20588276
marx would call nietzsche an aristocratic lumpenprole's philosopher like he did of stirner, and nietzsche would call marx an ascetic priest with scientific pretentions that signal his enlightenment nihilism

[Anonymous No.20588698]

>>20588276
We know how Marx would respond through Lukacs.
>Nietzsche as Founder of Irrationalism in the Imperialist Period
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/destruction-reason/ch03.htm

[Anonymous No.20588945]

>>20588676
The Ubermensch is not a person. Its the goal of humanity. You need to read Nietzsche more carefully. Nietzsche wasn't interested in creating supermen. He was attempting to provide an alternative goal for humanity that would be an answer to democracy, socialism, anarchism et cetera which he feared would take over the world after his death and destroy its ability to achieve greater things.

[Anonymous No.20588981]

>>20588945
Imagine arriving to the exact opposite conclusion that Nietzsche did and deriving an eschatology of the herd from him.

WTP aph. 901:
>The principal consideration is that we must never regard it as the responsibility of a superior species to provide guidance to their inferiors (as eg Comte does). Rather, we should regard it as the purpose of the inferior species to assist their superiors in their endeavours and to provide a foundation upon which they can stand. The conditions under which a strong and noble species preserves itself (with regard to intellectual discipline) are the opposite of those under which the industrial masses, the shopkeepers a la Spencer exist.

WtP aph. 898:
>In the past, it was only by a combination of necessity and chance that the conditions for the production of a stronger kind of man were occasionally realized. But now, we can understand and consciously choose them: we can create the conditions under which such an elevation is possible. [...] The present form of society is undergoing such a powerful transformation that at some point it will no longer be able to exist for its own sake, but only as an instrument in the hands of a stronger race. [...] That great process, the levelling and mediocritizing of European man, is not to be retarded; it should even be accelerated. The necessity for widening gulfs, for social distance and for hierarchy, is thereby established; not the necessity for slowing that process. This levelled species requires a justification, once it has been attained; its justification is the service it provides to a superior, sovereign species who stands upon it and can arise and accomplish its tasks only on this basis. I am not speaking of a master race whose tasks are thereby limited simply to governing, but a race with its own sphere of existence, with a surplus of energy for beauty, bravery, culture, and manners, even in the most intellectual affairs; an affirmative race which may allow itself to indulge in every great luxury...

WtP aph. 866:
>[...] As everyone knows, my terms, my metaphorical expression for this type, is the word "superman." [ubermensch]. [...] He is just as much in need of the opposition of the masses, of those who are 'levelled', the sense of distance from them; he stands upon them, he lives off them. This superior form of aristocracy is the form of the future. Morally speaking, the total machinery and the cooperation of all its cogs and wheels represents a maximum in the exploitation of man; but it presupposes those for whom this exploitation has meaning. [...] One can see that what I am combatting is economic optimist, as if the increasing cost borne by all would necessarily increase the benefit of all. The opposite seems to me to be the case: the cost to all adds up to be a net loss.

[Anonymous No.20589029]

>>20588276
>M: Gibs me dat for free
>N: why?
>M: sheeeiittt come on man, deys be starvin' us in dem villages. Dey kulaks be hoardin' grain 'n' shit.
>N: appeal to pity, slave morality, I am so clever etc.
>M: we yoos t'be aristocrats'til bourgeoise took all our means of production (Engels: das rite!)
Just as you'd expect really.

[Anonymous No.20589039]

>>20588981
None of those quotes disprove what I'm saying, midwit. Where exactly do any of those quotes doe Nietzsche say the Ubermensch is a person, and not a goal for humanity?

[Anonymous No.20589046]

>>20588981
Typical idiot, /pol/tard using a forgery instead Zarathustra because you got filtered.

[Anonymous No.20589052]

>>20589029
This. I honestly don't get why people still worship marx so fucking much when his ideas can literally be summed up as "I want that but don't want to pay for it". Funnily enough, he himself literally had no real work experience and coasted through life leeching from his friend, who owned a fucking factory kek. Just like all socialists, its just hypocrisy justifying laziness and avoiding self-improvement.

[Anonymous No.20589059]

>>20589039
>Nietzsche wasn't interested in creating supermen.
Nietzsche: But now, we can understand and consciously choose them: we can create the conditions under which such an elevation is possible.
Yeah, this doesn't contradict you, because it just doesn't.
>Where exactly do any of those quotes doe Nietzsche say the Ubermensch is a person
The ubermensch is a type of man, therefore the ubermensch is a person, and as per the quotes the ubermensch is exclusively different from "mankind." If you'd like I can find more quotes which directly state that the justification of mankind itself could be a single man. This is just basic knowledge of Nietzsche's philosophy.
>>20589046
There's no evidence to suggest it's a forgery. You likely misread Zarathustra because it is easier to misinterpret due to the heavy use of allegory and symbol. If for some reason you refuse to read WtP, you can read Ecce Homo and Antichrist for the same understanding.

[Anonymous No.20589072]

>>20589029
>>20589052
embarrassing

[Anonymous No.20589074]

>>20588276
>muh gibsmedats
>muh will to power

[Anonymous No.20589092]

>>20589052
>I honestly don't get why people still worship marx so fucking much when his ideas can literally be summed up as "I want that but don't want to pay for it"
Because that's exactly what they want as well. Press anyone about feminism, anti-racism, marxism and their argument will become: 'gibs me dat for free'. In that sense Marx was entirely right about materialism.

>>20589072
>Mao reads Marx
>ohhhhhh dis Jew clevah I yoo he paw-sees
>awww Chinamen kiwl awww sparrow in Chyna foh eatinG aww da glain
>all sparrows killed
>Locusts invade with their predator exterminated
>eat all the grain in China
>60 million Chinamen starve to death
>The capitalists did this
kek.

[Anonymous No.20589112]

>>20589092
>Mao reads Marx
he didnt

[Anonymous No.20589113]

>>20589112
He did, the original Hebrew version and all.

[Anonymous No.20589123]

>>20589113
no

[Anonymous No.20589128]

>>20589123
>no, just no, no upvote for you sir /s
Reddit.

[Anonymous No.20589134]

>>20589128
reddit would be writing a long-ass essay to deboonk your unfunny posts

[Anonymous No.20589142]

>>20589134
Go on then you fat twat. Marx was a hack, Mao was a retard, and instead of blathering on about everyone else, name one single Marxist who did anything of value in the world.

[Anonymous No.20589478]

>>20588981
Nice quotes from his sister. Try reading Nietzche himself next time.

[Anonymous No.20589657]

>>20588676
le sad russian guy

[Anonymous No.20589727]

>>20588698
Can you please tell me how aristocratic values are considered bourgeoisie? How is proletarian resentment “heroic struggle” as Lukacs says? Does he know what the word “heroic” implies? Its origins?

[Anonymous No.20589957]

>>20588383
>Nietzsche
>nihilist
He literally spends the entirety of the antichrist book doing the very specific thing of shitting on christians for being nihilists, retard.
Shut the fuck up, you're an idiot beyond repair.

[Anonymous No.20589965]

>>20588383
I too like discussing deep subjects i actively try to avoid learning about.

[Anonymous No.20591393]

>>20588945
Who gives a shit what dead guy said. His work should follow if it's philosophically logic. It would come to know as truth regardless, else it would admittedly be a theology revealed by Nietzsche.
Same shit for Marx; he's treated as revealed theology by his "secular" acolytes.

[Anonymous No.20591838]

>>20588676
>Last Man mindset

[Anonymous No.20591904]

>>20591838
What if it's divine to not like things?
To be selective.

[Anonymous No.20591997]

>>20588676
Is this what Dostoyevsky said himself or is it one of these things a character from one of his book says?

[Anonymous No.20592005]

>>20591997
What's the fucken difference?
They are both technically "him".

[Anonymous No.20592016]

>>20588383
is this the thread where we pretend to know what we're talking about?

[Anonymous No.20592022]

>>20588287
>since they were both influenced by Feuerbach.
Wrong. Nietzsche was just influenced by Wagner.

[Anonymous No.20592028]

>>20591997
>>20592005
Energies are reflective of esssence.
Essence precedes one's energies.
Think of it as anti-existentialism (neo-essentalism)

[Anonymous No.20593415]

>>20589134 Sergei Prokofiev, Pablo Picasso, Sergei Eisenstein, Yuri Gagarin, Aneurin Bevan, Pier Paulo Passolini, Yury Osipov, Boris Belousov, Mikhail Kalashnikov, Nikolay Krasovsky

[Anonymous No.20593420]

>>20588288
But Marx wasn't an egalitarian

[Anonymous No.20593493]

>>20589052 you speak balderdash my friend, Marx was blacklisted from employment and repeatedly deported for his views, he worked his entire life as a historian, economist and philosphers generate tens of thousands of pages of works still discussed by scholars of all colours to this day.
If you are referring to Friedrich Engels, his "friend", did not own a facotry, Engles was just from a rich family of early German bourgouisse . As for the idea of "i want but don't want to pay for it", Marx did reckon that humanity would eventually be compelled to return to collectivism which would lead to the inevitable abolition of money, but this was not some fleeting desire of a man who judging by his background could easily have lived a life of simple luxury had he not chosen to become a revolutionary. Instead Marx dedicated his life to his work which left him and his family, like almost everyone at the time. teetering on the edge of poverty.
It must also be said that your quote doesn't sum up Marx's work because so little of his corpus is actually devoted to spelling out what a communist or even socialist society would look like. Instead Marx studied how capitalism forged itself as such a productive social system, whilst at the same time proving through the 'tendency of the rate of profit to decline' showing that capitalism is ingrained with perpetuating instability and deforming the basic structures of human existence.

[Anonymous No.20593542]

>>20588945
The Ubermensch is not a person - Thus Spake Zarathustra.

[Anonymous No.20593553]

>>20589478
They were written by Nietzsche and arranged by Peter Gast. Try actually doing any research at all next time. If it was forged by Nietzsche's sister he wouldn't be lampooning anti-Semites all throughout.

[Anonymous No.20593570]

>>20593542
kek
>>20588945
if it wasn't a person he would have used the plural form even once throughout all of Zarathustra

[Anonymous No.20593574]

>>20588383
>life affirming
>somehow still gets called a nihilist
Read genealogy of morals and antichrist before you start spouting bullshit

[Anonymous No.20593597]

>>20588276
i think marx would win. nietzsche was a-political btw

[Anonymous No.20593616]

Nietzsche wouldn't debate Marx, he'd probably listen to Marx's arguments and then sperg out about the Last Man before leaving

>Meanwhile, you fool, I give you this lesson in parting: where one can no longer love, there one should – pass by!” –