/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20577444]

Is "Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior" a worthy read?

[Anonymous No.20577477]

>>20577444
>Some of his teaching methods and actions, particularly his heavy drinking, womanizing, and the physical assault of a student and his wife, caused controversy during his lifetime and afterward.
The author seems based

[Anonymous No.20579015]

>>20577444
Trungpa was a Tibetan Buddhist lama who basically was seduced by the Western lifestyle and departed from the path, down his own spiritual dead end.
He still has some adherents, but they are sort of like Blavatskyites. With no fresh insights to sustain them, they pass on their spirituality to some but not all of their children, and a few new adherents per year. Eventually they will dwindle and die out, leaving only the writings, which will be viewed as curiosities.

[Anonymous No.20580222]

>>20577444
The thing is, Vajrayana Tibetan Buddhism has profound insights and teachings, but as >>20579015 points out the issue is that a big detour happens in Western mindsets approaching teachings like this — around the fact that, “It’s from TIBET!” Hence, as he rightly points out, you can become something like a Blavatskian, an inauthentic occultist, when interested in stuff like this.

In other words, Trungpa is a “Tibetan occult guy bigshot, one of those lamas from Tibet who can enlighten us.” The same thing happens when the Western mindset tries to approach other foreign (but also extraordinarily interesting and insightful) traditions like Islamic Sufism, Indian Vedantic and various other yogic schools, Taoism, other forms of Buddhism, and the like. The central thing isn’t the teachings and the perennial insights to be found in them, it’s the exoticism itself — “Wow, a wise Central Asian dervish!” “Wow, an enlightened Indian guru!” “Wow, a transcendental Amerindian shaman!” “Wow, an exotic Tibetan lama!”

And furthermore, perhaps no culture or outward sociological manifestation of a religion can ever really fully be perfect. Every one clearly has their flaws and their flawed proponents. Trungpa himself as >>20577477 points out had some rather glaring personality flaws. Also, he himself was very Tibetan — proud of the Tibetan culture, traditions, and teachings — which is not something I disparage as cultural uniqueness is a wonderful thing, note.

[Anonymous No.20580228]

>>20580222
So, reading the works of his and other modern proponents of Tibetan Buddhism, you get the Tibetan mystification around it, his essential pride in his own Tibetanness and the identification with himself as “Chögyam Trungpa, the Tibetan Buddhist Nyingma meditation master” — so you can learn about the myth of the Garuda, the legendarily outrageous, enlightened eagle/dragon-like bird, whom the ideal Shambhala warrior manifests aspects of. You can read about invoking drala, a magic of ordinariness, a potential for sacredness and heightened perception lying in ordinary situations, surroundings, and people. You can read and be fascinated by descriptions of the six bardos, potential states of human consciousness also corresponding to different afterlife realms (from the most hellish to the purgatorial to the most heavenly) the consciousness can enter into after death. You can read about raising lungta, meaning “windhorse,” a Tibetan phrase for a type of self-generated energy and joy, independent of circumstance, which uplifts whatever circumstances, situations, and people one finds oneself working with, or developing wangthang, which means something like authentic presence. You’ll also learn about the lives and teachings of some of the greatest Tibetan sages of that lineage like Milarepa, Marpa, Naropa, and the like, as well as of the mythology surrounding the legendary, supposedly immortal founder of Tibetan Buddhism, Guru Rinpoche (also known as Padmasambhava).

And, for Tibetans like Trungpa and others like him, all this will organically be more resonant with them — since they grew up steeped in Tibetan culture, traditions, and the language, they’ll have a more emotional, organic identification with some of these symbols, stories, teachings, and terminologies, which, to you, will seem rather exotic, unique, and foreign — the same way that, for a Central Asian or Middle Eastern Islamic Sufi naturally, organically steeped in the Arabic language and Islamic culture from childhood, phrases like “the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)” and “Allah” will have a much greater organic resonance and meaning for them than someone who wasn’t steeped in this from childhood and even tries to artificially convert, perhaps, to something like Islamic Sufism.

[Anonymous No.20580239]

>>20580228
Will any of this — phrases like wangthang, lungta, the legendary Garuda bird, drala, stories of Guru Rinpoche, Marpa, Milarepa, and the like — really uplift you, inspire you, help you in your life, if you just appropriate it as “more exotic unique Tibetan terminology and mythology to be entertained by” — or, conversely, view it all as “the unique property of Tibet,” and hence endlessly view yourself as a deficient Westerner, an outsider, inferior to these miraculous Tibetans, and who can only, at best, hope to become enlightened by becoming a second-class Tibetan citizen, putting yourself under the guidance of some modern Tibetan lama authorized to teach in the West, even joining one of the outposts of Trungpa’s Shambhala Buddhism centers still existing today?

If, however, understanding these issues of cultural authenticity and inauthenticity, you decide that you want to learn about the unique Tibetan traditional approach to human spiritual self-development, without falling into some silly idea like, “I have to convert and become a second-class culturally conditioned pseudo-Tibetan if I want to be enlightened by it,” you might get something out of it.

[dago No.20580246]

>>20577477
Seems like a madlad

[Anonymous No.20580279]

>>20577444
The pali canon is better than any of the tibetan crap.

[Anonymous No.20580306]

>>20580222
>>20580228
>>20580239
I like the way you think anon. Do you workout?

[Anonymous No.20580310]

Trungpa also had some rather acute, piercing insights into these head-trips people can get into when studying foreign cultural/religious traditions — he called it “spiritual materialism.” Although Trungpa Rinpoche, was, again, a rather flawed and imperfect figure, even he obviously had to see that the Buddhist tradition (which includes Vajrayana Buddhism), clearly, was not about the building up of ego, the creation of a “super”-ego (not in a Freudian sense, but in the sense of an ego becoming “miraculous”, “enlightened,” “powerful” and “wise”), but, as he put it, rather about its final disappointment.

And, clearly, you don’t necessarily see this insight in everyone who studies foreign religious traditions, gets interested in the occult, mysticism, all that. Rather, the tendency can be of feeling one is building-up-and-gathering something — “If I can imitate this Tibetan tradition — which feels very cool, unique, exotic and sacred to me — I can become ‘enlightened,’ which will be like myself becoming a miraculous Tibetan ego. Maybe, if I even learn to imitate as many traditions as possible, I’ll become super-enlightened.”

But is the mirror of cosmic ocean samadhi limited to Tibet? Is it dependent on a single culture or even on how many cultures you can imitate?

Conversely, does the mirror of cosmic ocean samadhi necessarily automatically DENY and DISPARAGE some tradition and culture like Tibetan Buddhism, deny that it can also be reflected and manifested through such a culture?

>There is a saying in the Tibetan scriptures: “Knowledge must be burned, hammered, and beaten like pure gold. Then one can wear it as an ornament.” So when you receive spiritual instruction from the hands of another, you do not take it uncritically, but you burn it, you hammer it, you beat it, until the bright, dignified color of gold appears. Then you craft it into an ornament, whatever design you like, and you put it on.
Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism

> In the process of burning out these confusions, we discover enlightenment. If the process were otherwise, the awakened state of mind would be a product dependent upon cause and effect and therefore liable to dissolution. Anything which is created must, sooner or later, die. If enlightenment were created in such a way, there would always be a possibility of ego reasserting itself, causing a return to the confused state. Enlightenment is permanent because we have not produced it; we have merely discovered it.
Ibid

> Walking the spiritual path properly is a very subtle process; it is not something to jump into naively. There are numerous sidetracks which lead to a distorted, ego-centered version of spirituality; we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are developing spiritually when instead we are strengthening our egocentricity through spiritual techniques. This fundamental distortion may be referred to as spiritual materialism.
Ibid

[Anonymous No.20580314]

>>20580306
Sometimes, yes. I used to a lot more but in the past few months fell behind. I walk for exercise more than I do weightlifting now.

[Anonymous No.20580325]

>>20580314
Walking is good, but you should get back to doing at least some calisthenics 3-6 times at week as well. You saw the Gigachad meme? A strong body in a strong men is able to inspire others in many ways. If I were you I wouldn't discard that vessel.
You can even turn working out in a form of meditation, if you do it concentrating your attention totally on doing the exercize with perfect form.
Also, being strong, even through bodyweight training, it's a must for any kshatriya. Check out kneesovertoesguy knee abiluty zero on youtube for free movements you can do at home without weights. Add push ups, pull ups and all that

[Anonymous No.20580330]

>>20580325
Thanks anon! I legitimately appreciate the reminder and the recommendations. It IS something I benefit from being reminded about.

[Anonymous No.20580375]

>>20580330
I'm glad I helped you, your posts certainly helped me and gave me some interesting ideas to study and work on, so I'm happy I managed to give a bit of something back.

[dago No.20580401]

>>20580310
>>20580239
>>20580228
>>20580222
Nice, thanks for effortposting
>>20580325
Can you feel it?
The anti-traditional Twitter BAPpists will be supplanted by the superior trad/lit/ alphas as the Lords of the Earth.
Victory is ours!!

[Anonymous No.20580407]

>>20580401
>he doesn't know bap is just a Malamatiyya

[dago No.20580734]

>have 3 audible credits
>want to listen to audiobook while cleaning house
>intrigued by OP book and download it
>narrated by a woman
>no refunds

[dago No.20580745]

>>20580407
explain brother...
I honestly don't know anything about him
tried listening to his podcast once but found that stupid meme russian accent voice to be unlistenable and cringe

[Anonymous No.20580785]

>>20580734
ALWAYS preview lil nigga

[Anonymous No.20580877]

>>20580745
I was half-joking.
I actually discussed with a fren about me. He said he thinks BAP is just another homo kike, I disagree, and here's why.
I believe that BAP is, if not right about everything, still good and useful for "our" guys. I'm italian, and having read Evola, I see a lot similarities.
Most of BAP's weird antics, are similar to whaf Evola's used to do, i.e. trolling. Evola was known to very fond of banter with friends, and to tell outlanding lies to journalists and politicians. For example, when a notorious communist journo came to interview him, Evola said he was a pimp and a drug dealer, and so were his parents, and literally claimed "i get all the bitches"(!!!). Or another famous episode, while talking with some youths who were interested in him, he said "I'm glad you're interested in my books, but please don't forget The Metaphysics of Sex, too".
Evola himself was accused to be a degenerate, a malamattiya, at the time.
What can I say? I think the message of BAP is very in line with the one of the Baron, with their differences and of course the intellectual magnitute of the Baron itself. BAP used to shill Meditation on the peaks as well.
If you read BAP's book (pirate it on libgen) you will see what I mean. Behind the practical advices (be anonymous, form tight knit groups with close friend and use them to develop yourself mentally and physically) and the schizo ramblings, there's an hidden message that it's very close to Evola's one. The words "life that is more than mere life, life that exists for something beyond mere life" are found both in BAP's book and in Ride the tiger. Amd they don't share different meanings.
The core message of BAP's book? "Only sun and steel will show you the way". This message has two meanings, both profane and traditional. The profane one is explained easily, get out in the sun and lift weights. The traditional one is the same Mishima aimed for, i.e. the sun is the spiritual sun, not the physical one, the absolute i.e. all things which you know well. The steel is the body, the body trained, the field, the garden, something tempered, enrichen and grown through the rays of the spiritual sun.
Mishima is profane literature as well, but the Baron used profane literature to explain his points as well, multiple times (Doesto and Nietzsche in ride the tiger... Boudelaire in doctrine of awakening... etc).
Evola considered Nietzsche an unwakaned men of tradition, or a lost men of tradition, men of tradition in denial etc. All discussed in ride the tiger. BAP considers himself a Nietzschean, so Evola's take on BAP would be the same... unless... the malamatiyya theory is true. The debate so is this: is bap conscious of what he's doing, like Evola was, or is he unconscious, like Nietzsche? That I don't know.
But I can tell you that in the 21st century, BAP, or at least his books might be one of the most useful inspiration/toolsets for young kshatriyas. I might talk more about this in the future.

[Anonymous No.20580899]

>There was a great Tibetan siddha called the Madman of Tsang. He lived in Tsang, which is in East Tibet, near a mountain called Anye Machen, where my guru Jamgon Kongtrul visited him. This was about five years before I met my guru. He used to tell us his story of his meeting with the Madman of Tsang, who was an ordinary farmer who had achieved the essence of crazy wisdom. He had these very precious things stored in his treasury, bags and bags supposedly full of valuable things. But the bags turned out to contain just driftwood and rocks. My guru told us that he asked the Madman of Tsang, “How should we go about uniting ourselves with Padmasambhava?” The madman told him the following:

>”When I was a young student and a very devout Buddhist, full of faith, I used to want my body to become one with Padmasambhava’s body. I did countless recitations, thousands and millions of mantras and invocations. I used to shout myself half to death reciting mantras. I even felt that I was wasting my time by breathing in during these recitations. I called and called and called to Padmasambhava, trying to make my body one with his. But then suddenly I just realized: I AM — my body IS — Padmasambhava. I could go on calling on him until my voice breaks down, but it wouldn’t make any sense. So I decided not to call on him any more. Then I found that Padmasambhava was calling on ME. I tried to suppress it, but I couldn’t control it. Padmasambhava wanted ME, and he kept on calling MY name.”
Crazy Wisdom, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, 1991, pp. 100-101

[dago No.20581039]

>>20580785
I dun' goofed!!!
the narration is not so bad actually
too early to comment on the contents (but I will anyway) - chapter 1 was kind of /trad/ because he compares various warrior traditions and essentially says there is a transcendent unity within kshatriya castes.
>>20580877
very based, thanks for the effortpost
I always figured he was kinda like Mishima (greekpilled), maybe i'll get around to him once I start with the greeks
>Evola was known to very fond of banter with friends
>he's_literally_me.jpg
kek
would he have been a memelord in our [Current Year]?
>I'm italian
oh are you the CasaPoundfag?

tell us moar about minor Evola details that only Italians would know

[Anonymous No.20581130]

>>20580279
You may not have any great love for, knowledge of, respect for, and appreciation of Guru Rinpoche, but Guru Rinpoche Padma Sambhava, nonetheless, has great love and compassion for the sake of you and all sentient beings.

Since Guru Rinpoche IS the embodiment of what Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche calls “basic sanity” and “basic goodness,” Guru Rinpoche IS there in all situations of sanity and goodness, even when he is not called by that name or recognized as such. When you are having tender, passionate, loving, consensual sex with another living human being, Guru Rinpoche is there. When you are training and cultivating the mind in loving-kindness, meditating on the truths of impermanence and non-duality — perhaps even when you are out in a beautiful scene in nature, your consciousness relaxed and blissfully aware, taking a break from all your incessant daily suffering and struggling and toiling and striving, maybe even unintentionally adhering to a Tibetan meditation exercise of seeing that “your mind is like the sky, your visual perception is like a rippling lake of water, and your body a mountain,” — Guru Rinpoche is there, even if you do not notice it or see Him at the time.

When you fall from the Vajrayana road and cultivate some negative karma, doing harm both to yourself and others, Guru Rinpoche’s infinitely wise, kind, tender, all-loving, all-knowing, immortal heart feels great sorrow for you. But He does not give up on you, even where you have given up on Him. Guru Rinpoche even has an enlightened pity and compassion for Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche’s massive character flaws, alcoholism, and cult-formation scandals.


Even if you have no faith in Guru Rinpoche, Guru Rinpoche has faith in you. He wants nothing for you but your own good. Guru Rinpoche does not force His way of life and teachings on you, but only dispassionately, compassionately offers them to the world for your and everyone else’s own ultimate good.

[Anonymous No.20581149]

>>20580279
>>20581130
If you want to recite the mantra “Om mani padme hum” to get nearer to Guru Rinpoche, He will be happy if it is of service to you; if, on the other hand, you prefer the Advaita Vedanta approach, and using Sanskrit mantras like So’ham, “I am That,” and the like, or — very far out — you might even be an Orthodox Christian monk in the hesychast tradition practicing the Prayer of the Heart, He nevertheless looks on with enlightened forbearance and compassion, having nothing but compassion for the sake of all sentient beings, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Hindus alike, viewing them all as manifestations of the timeless and spaceless Dharmakaya, the Buddha-body of Reality.

Guru Rinpoche sees no distinction between you, or the most reputable Tibetan authority like His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, or Gyalwa Karmapa. He thinks you all have the potential of Buddhahood lying within you as a seed.

Guru Rinpoche doesn’t even care if you deny that He is an immortal, enlightened human being and make fun of Him or even of this post. He is far too transcendent for worrying about so petty a thing as that.

Guru Rinpoche doesn’t even care if you don’t really care about achieving enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings in this very lifetime, and instead just view religious traditions like Tibetan Buddhism as more games to play with to fill up the time. He is certain that, given enough reincarnations, you will eventually come around to a more serious attitude towards enlightenment.

Om mani padme hum!

[Anonymous No.20581153]

>>20581039
>would he have been a memelord in our [Current Year]?
I don't know about this. But maybe. He was a very virile men with a rebellious side on him.
>oh are you the CasaPoundfag
that's probably someone else, I'm apolitical

>tell us moar about minor Evola details that only Italians would know
He was... very anti-italian? He really disliked italians, while being italian in more senses than one. He disliked the way we degenerated, how we bend over for strangers all the time, etc.. all things all italians would admit he's right on.
An homosexual left wing songwriter in italy, which was very famous, Lucio Dalla, liked to read Evola, which costed him very aggressive attacks from the left wing media apparatus at the time.

[Anonymous No.20581161]

>>20580279
>>20581130
If you want to recite the mantra “Om mani padme hum” to get nearer to Guru Rinpoche, He will be happy if it is of service to you; if, on the other hand, you prefer the Advaita Vedanta approach, using Sanskrit mantras like So’ham, “I am That,” and the like, or — very far out — you might even be an Orthodox Christian monk in the hesychast tradition practicing the Prayer of the Heart, He nevertheless looks on with enlightened forbearance and compassion, having nothing but compassion for the sake of all sentient beings, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Hindus alike, viewing them all as manifestations of the timeless and spaceless Dharmakaya, the Buddha-body of Reality, and being rather happy when they try to cease to do evil, start to do good, and to cultivate transcendental wisdom, which can also be called prajna.

Guru Rinpoche sees no distinction between you, or the most reputable Tibetan authority like His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, or Gyalwa Karmapa. He thinks you all have the potential of Buddhahood lying within you as a seed.

Guru Rinpoche doesn’t even care if you deny that He is an immortal, enlightened human being and make fun of Him or even of this post. He is far too transcendent for worrying about so petty a thing as that.

Guru Rinpoche doesn’t even care if you don’t really care about achieving enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings in this very lifetime, and instead just view religious traditions like Tibetan Buddhism as more games to play with to fill up the time. He is certain that, given enough reincarnations, you will eventually come around to a more serious attitude towards enlightenment.

Om mani padme hum!

[Anonymous No.20582560]

bump'

[Anonymous No.20582564]

>>20581039
There is a Casa Poundfag on /lit/? What's his deal?

[dago No.20582584]

>>20581153
>He was... very anti-italian?
that was kinda Nietzschean of him, to be the biggest critic "from above" of his own people/state.
>>20582564
idk if he was actually part of CasaPound but he knew an awful lot and showed us pics of the inside of the HQ, which had Evola and Guenon's names on the wall
>>/lit/thread/S20301843#p20307010

[Anonymous No.20582604]

>>20580877
>Or another famous episode, while talking with some youths who were interested in him, he said "I'm glad you're interested in my books, but please don't forget The Metaphysics of Sex, too".
Fucking kek. I always agreed with his work but assumed he himself was most likely a bit of a humorless sperg, I like the guy even more now

[Anonymous No.20582716]

>>20580877
>I believe that BAP is, if not right about everything, still good and useful for "our" guys. I'm italian, and having read Evola, I see a lot similarities.
BAP is the pinnacle of the atheist weakling who craves being told what to do, because he is fucking lost in his life lol.

[Anonymous No.20582730]

>>20582584
>>20582564
>>20581039
>>12533706
you have the POV of an atheist. Since atheist is basically saying all pre-atheist codes are useless and oppressive and ignorant and man made, and all atheists codes are better an true and liberating, as long as the plebs remain consumming wageslaves, ie do not conduct military affairs, there is basically no code and men are stuck at competing for women 24/7. So they try to gain back some realization of their fantasy of masculinity and they all double down on lifting and homosexual activities, saying it's peak masculinity.

People who dont give a shit about atheism keep conducting military affairs and they can't give a shit about regaining masculinity codes and they certainly dont give a fuck about how they look in the eyes of the atheists

[Anonymous No.20582737]

>>20580310
>Buddhist tradition (which includes Vajrayana Buddhism),
False. And directly contradicting the Buddha. Why do you reject the Buddha's teaching?

[dago No.20582740]

>>20582730
K. Keep us posted.

[Anonymous No.20582783]

>>20582604
There are many similar cases.
A young right wing guy who liked his books, and personally talked to him multiple times once wanted to have sex with an hot marxist girls at his Uni.
He was worried about making things work since they were on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
When he told the matter to Evola, he said "why do you care? just ask her out. If she likes you, she will date you anyway. If she says no, then you don't have anything to worry about."
The guy and the girl did end up hooking up and having sex for a few months.

[Anonymous No.20583312]

>>20582783
>tfw born too late to get dating advice from Baron Evola

[Anonymous No.20583316]

>another /lit/ thread about x becomes an evola thread instead
do you ever tire of shilling the same author in half the catalog?

[Anonymous No.20584161]

>>20583316
dilate desu

[Anonymous No.20584735]

>>20582737
Explain?

[Anonymous No.20585517]

>>20580222
>>20580228
>>20580239
>>20580310
Thank you for effortposting.

Blessed thread, overall. I have nothing to add other than that I have been to a Vajrayana temple before and those guys are badass. They truly get in touch with the elemental forces of death itself and use it to smash apart illusory consciousness. It is the most virile spiritual tradition still with us today. My favorite after Orthodox Christianity.

[Anonymous No.20587059]

>>20577477
How is that based?

[Anonymous No.20587139]

>>20587059
He's a man's man, a force of nature. You know you're getting the ideas of a human bring and not some bureaucratic troon.

[Anonymous No.20588394]

>>20585517
>They truly get in touch with the elemental forces of death itself and use it to smash apart illusory consciousness. It is the most virile spiritual tradition still with us today. My favorite after Orthodox Christianity.
No, the buddhists are better than vajrayanists.

[Anonymous No.20588402]

>>20587139>>20577477
>>20580246

Imagine wanting to fuck girls and not even wanting to be paid for it lol. Imagine putting women such a pedestal that you want to please and serve FOR FREE. Imagine that you are such cuck that you delude yourself you are alpha by living for women.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[Anonymous No.20588453]

>>20588402
Imagine women living so rent free in your head that you come into a thread about Buddhism and start reeeing that the author liked to have sex with them.