Holy Bible thread

[Anonymous No.20550162]

ITT we discuss the most influential piece of literature in human history - the Holy Bible

[Anonymous No.20550208]

Thomas Nelson. Premiere collection. Thinline KJV. Red letter edition. Goatskin cover. Satin ribbons. Gilded page edges. 2k Denmark typeface on 36gsm European paper.

https://youtu.be/o3eqY6fkcWQ

[Anonymous No.20550623]

bump

[Anonymous No.20550628]

>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.20550650]

>be me
>go to baptist Church
>pastor and Sunday school teacher both acknowledge the value that results from catholics beliefs
>value resulting from them viewing marriage as a sacrament, which leads to a lower divorce rate than protestants
>bread and wine as literally being Jesus' body and blood means it is more revered and handled with more care by some
Find it interesting. Baptists are well known for disliking catholicism I think. Thought catholic anons might appreciate this

[Anonymous No.20550810]

>>20550650
the catholic church has a pretty bad record imo. Used to burn people alive for trying to read the Bible. Seems satanic to me

[Anonymous No.20550842]

>>20550162
>You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16

>The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel. Mark 1:15

>The Son of Man must…be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Luke 9:22

>By grace you have been saved, through faith…not by works. Ephesians 2:8-9

>You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession. 1 Peter 2:9

>If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

>I saw “a new heaven and a new earth.” Revelation 21:1

[Anonymous No.20550902]

>>20550162
It is a good book, but it is pretty hard to discuss it because not so many people have read it in full, and many yet claim to know it without having read it.

Do you think Solomon is saved or not? He was the wisest man, prayed for that as for which God wants humans to pray, brought virtue and riches over God's then chosen people to the point where even after he fell into sin God didn't punish him until after his death, yet he sinned greatly, put his teacher of religion to death, dabbled deeply into occultism and witchcraft and worst of all brought idolatry, which is among the worst sins, to Israel through his devotion to his thousands of women and concubines.

[Anonymous No.20550990]

>>20550902
just finished 2nd kings. Not looking good for the jews.... cannibalism, child sacrifice, baal worship, and now they're destroyed and enslaved by the assyrians

[Anonymous No.20551000]

>>20550902
>I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind. (Ecclesiastes 1:14)

>The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)

[Anonymous No.20551102]

like my previous stupid questions these are asked in good faith
>do you believe in The Rapture
>thoughts on Kevin Sorbo?

[Anonymous No.20551192]

>>20550990
I am just gonna say, the parable of the bad tenants makes a lot more sense after you drudge through atrocity after atrocity commited by the Jews in the old testament
>>20551000
what are you getting at? that he isn't judged yet? Then what do you assume,, will he be saved or not?

>>20551102
>Rapture
I am fairly optimistic and think the rapture is the heat death of the universe, the day God unmakes the world he created and judges all there is in it
>Kevin Sorbo
literally who?

[Anonymous No.20551200]

>whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven.
So did Paul go to hell? Asking quickly before mods nuke it.

[Anonymous No.20551219]

>>20550162
To be honest, best thing I ever did was become a Christian Mystic and have a DIY relationship with God

[Anonymous No.20551237]

>>20551219
Heresy-tier.
>>20551200
Paul repented.

[Anonymous No.20551254]

>>20551237
>Heresy-tier.
Its not. All I did was start reading the Bible, go to Church, and I got Baptized, then the Holy Spirit descended and indwelled me, causing Ego Death and Spiritual Mystical Awakening (Putting on the Mind of Christ). Everything that happened to me was confirmed as part of the Christian Transformation and Divine Mysteries of God, confirmed in a number of Monasteries. Its actually sad the so many so called Christians call the Mystical Heart of the Faith as Heresy, and I find that those who call "Heresy" have themselves never experienced the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, many such cases. You types are just modern day witch burners, and everything is a witch lol

[Anonymous No.20551358]

>>20551254
youre arguably more of an idolator than catholics, which is a high bar.

[Anonymous No.20551360]

>>20551358
>youre arguably more of an idolator than catholics, which is a high bar.
and you make a bunch of false statements with no proof to back them. That's how it is with the lot of you, anything you dont understand is always: satan, heretic, idolator, anything you can say to tarnish anything that isnt (enter your version of Christianity here) lol

[Anonymous No.20551374]

>>20551192
>literally who
he played Hercules now makes Christian movies

[Anonymous No.20551444]

>>20551254
>Ego Death
I hate to say it, but whatever you experienced was not Christian. It seems like some of the books that you are reading are forged / false Gospels, or purveyors of pagan ideas like crypto-Advaita Vedanta. Christ calls us into a union that does not dissolve personality and individuality. Ego death has nothing to do with Christ. Beware of prelest.

[Anonymous No.20551483]

>>20551444
>Christ calls us into a union that does not dissolve personality and individuality.
Not him but
>Matthew 10:39: Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
seems close to me

[Anonymous No.20551573]

>>20551444
>I hate to say it, but whatever you experienced was not Christian.
100% it was: John 3: 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

The Mystical Ego Death within Christianity is a 100% valid experience written about by a wide range of Theologians, PhD's, Church Fathers, and Christians Mystics, Monks, Desert Fathers, and Hermits most of whom are cherished within a number of Decimations as Saints. Which means that I have 100% faith knowing that my experiences are aligned with the writings of that Saints, over some random Lit/Bro who has no knowledge of what im talking about lol
> Christ calls us into a union that does not dissolve personality and individuality. Ego death has nothing to do with Christ.
100% it does, Paul talks about, "Not I, but Christ in me." Jesus talks about "Die to the self and take up thy Cross" as well as " I and the Father are One and I pray that they may all be One as I am in the Father and He in Me." Union with God happens after Ego death in Theosis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Christian_theology)#Stages

[Anonymous No.20551588]

>>20551573
>over some random Lit/Bro who has no knowledge of what im talking about lol
You definitely don't sound like you lost your ego lol

[Anonymous No.20551599]

>>20551588
>You definitely don't sound like you lost your ego lol
Im aware of it, and I use it to put together words and communications, but it is not who I am and it has never regained its original supremacy and seat of Leadership after becoming a Christian who Loves God and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Also explaining a Logical Fact: That my own ego death and rebirth experience mirrors that of Christian Saints of Antiquity and is backed by their own testimonies and writings, being the Greater Authority that an single Lit/Bro isnt egoic, its just matter of fact and something any logical person would do after their own Mystical Experience with Christ

[Anonymous No.20551611]

>>20551599
>its just matter of fact and something any logical person would do after their own Mystical Experience with Christ
That's also egotistic that you think you can judge perfectly and what you do is what every reasonable person would do. A good tree bears good fruits but your posts have been arrogant and they speak more about your soul than your explanations.

[Anonymous No.20551623]

>>20551611
>That's also egotistic that you think you can judge perfectly
Who said I am judging perfectly? You did, not me. This whole "judge perfectly is egoic" is your own made up belief that only you believe it, but it is not Objective reality and it is not my own reality as well, so it has zero validity
>and what you do is what every reasonable person would do.
Many if not most people are actually not reasonable
> A good tree bears good fruits but your posts have been arrogant and they speak more about your soul than your explanations.
Its actually the other way around. Jesus warns, "Do Not Cast Your Jewels to Swine" and my Jewel is discussing my direct experiences with my Beloved Lord and Savior and God the Father, and the Amazing way that the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit has permanently transformed me to Love all Beings and to be since then Mystically Awakened. When I share this things with people, the worst and saddest part about it is that non-Christians for the most part are the most open minded about my experiences and how they are mirrored in the Saints, while people who call themselves "Christians" become the most defensive and attack me the most. By that nature, all the readers here can tell a tree by its fruits with your replies. I cast my jewels, and you trample them

[Anonymous No.20551667]

>>20551623
What are your jewels? All you've done so far has been self-glorifying and mocking people, not trying to help anyone.

[Anonymous No.20551684]

the bible itself is pretty cool, I've read parts of it and I agree with the general sentiment. but why do some fags keep trying to push christianity on me? I just don't believe, okay?
is there something in the book that advocate preaching and converting other people? that really annoys me, fucking get off my back

[Anonymous No.20551697]

>>20551667
>What are your jewels?
The Amazingness of being Awakened Spiritually through the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and all its Spiritual and Mystical Gifts like the Mystical eternal Inner Peace, Timelessness, Loss of Fear of Physical Death, Brimming with Bliss, the Heart having Mystical Love of God in it, an Actual inner Light Illumination afterwards. Its literally Night and Day compared to life prior to the Holy Spirit Indwelling
>All you've done so far has been self-glorifying and mocking people, not trying to help anyone.
Trying to share with other people how amazing it is to go through Mystical Ego Death and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit is sharing and caring and telling others the good news, that God still intervenes with us directly and can change our lives spiritually and mystically for the better. Doing all of that is Good. While getting attacked by someone saying, "uhhhh none of that is from God" is bad.

[Anonymous No.20551714]

>>20551697
>Trying to share with other people how amazing it is to go through Mystical Ego Death and Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Well you may want to do it by demonstrating it, but since the very beginning (>>20551219) your posts focused on yourself and your ego, demonstrating the contrary. Of course people don't believe you if you can't show anything for it.

[Anonymous No.20551743]

>>20551714
>Well you may want to do it by demonstrating it,
I already have, by sharing books, quotes from Saints, and scripture versus.
> but since the very beginning your posts focused on yourself and your ego
Yes because when you share a Testimony of how you were transformed by the Holy Spirit Indwelling ego death, by the very nature of the topic (ego death) and a Testimony (what happened to me) these are exactly what we are focusing on here, dictated by logic and reason
>demonstrating the contrary.
"On the contrary" is your opinion. While on my side I have: Testimony, Scripture Versus, Saints' Testimonies, Books, and links.
>Of course people don't believe you if you can't show anything for it.
Testimony, Scripture Versus, Saints' Testimonies, Books, and links say otherwise

[Anonymous No.20551781]

>>20551743
I didn't realize your book recommendations and images were supposed to be your gifts to us since they were overshadowed by the big ego exhibited in your belligerent posts, but I hope they'll help someone and thanks for sharing your experience.

[Anonymous No.20551797]

>>20551714

You can already see it, but if you actually compare what that Anon is talking about and how he's talking about it with the actual experiences and testimonies of the 1st millenium Saints (and post-schism Orthodox Saints) then it's blatantly clear that he's going down a dark, self-deceptive spiritual path, using New Age categories & language rather than receiving the tradition from the body of Christ.

Saying "Best thing I ever did was become a Christian Mystic and have a DIY relationship with God" is a pure confession that you have completely missed the point - that you *can't* do it yourself, and you need God. Basic spiritual life is a blood-and-tooth struggle for purification and you can't skip that blood-and-tooth struggle and replace it with having a single psychadelic-style "Ego Death" experience and spend your time after it reading New Age syncretist material LARPing and calling yourself a mystic (which no serious Saint has ever done, especially the ones who have actually become deified).

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/francis_sarov.aspx If you read this comparison for example, it will show how Francis of Assissi was in a state of pure imaginative self-deception, compared to St. Seraphim of Sarov, who did reach extremely high spiritual levels but never self-aggrandised, and retained his humility in his struggles to overcome his fallen human nature.

[Anonymous No.20551808]

>>20551781
>I didn't realize your book recommendations and images were supposed to be your gifts to us since they were overshadowed by the big ego exhibited in your belligerent posts,
us debating and you seemingly appearing to not be doing so good in this debate and therefore reverting to me being egoic because of the solid defense of Christian Mysticism and Christ Himself, that I have established logically and reasonably, isnt egoic. Not sure why you keep reverting to that. Logic, Reason, Debating Theologically isnt Egoic. Christ also debated, so by your own arguments, Christ was Egoic
>belligerent posts
Reverting to that is that same as "Heresy-tier, idolator, not Christian" and all the other false defamations. It has no substance. God knows my heart and pure intentions as well as the validity of my defense

[Anonymous No.20551815]

Is the eastern orthodox church the only one with the concept of prelest?

[Anonymous No.20551831]

>>20551797
>it's blatantly clear that he's going down a dark, self-deceptive spiritual path
I get the same feeling. His attitude and comments come across as downright evil rather than kind and understanding. Nothing to do with what he preaches. But I also do not know enough to judge with confidence, so I hope any readers judge wisely. It seems reckless that he would even encourage this "DIY" path which seems dangerous.

[Anonymous No.20551855]

>>20551797
>You can already see it, but if you actually compare what that Anon is talking about and how he's talking about it with the actual experiences and testimonies of the 1st millenium Saints (and post-schism Orthodox Saints)
Right off the bat, you are attributing that the only valid spiritual experiences are those of the 1st Millenium Saints, and by Proxy that completely tosses out all other time periods and the people their in and their experiences as invalid. That's completely illogical.
>and post-schism Orthodox Saints
There also Catholic and other Denomination Saints who have had similar or exactly the same kind of experiences and have talked about them
>then it's blatantly clear that he's going down a dark, self-deceptive spiritual path, using New Age categories & language rather than receiving the tradition from the body of Christ.
The Abbots, Monks, Priests, and Spiritual Fathers that I receive guidance from say otherwise
>Saying "Best thing I ever did was become a Christian Mystic and have a DIY relationship with God" is a pure confession that you have completely missed the point
I dont think so. Your Experience is Yours, it is You who is establishing and figuring out his relationship with God in a personal manner. Its something you have to do, just like I have to do it for myself. I cant do it for you nor can you do it for me. For each of us, it is a personal matter
>Basic spiritual life is a blood-and-tooth struggle for purification and you can't skip that blood-and-tooth struggle
Where did I say I didnt go through that?
>and replace it with having a single psychadelic-style "Ego Death" experience
It wasnt a single experience, it was many, its ongoing, its happening even right now as i type and hasnt left since that day
>st material LARPing and calling yourself a mystic (which no serious Saint has ever done, especially the ones who have actually become deified).
Here you go, i have tons more: If you attain mystical knowledge and experience the delight that rises from it, no longer will the dark spirit of arrogance be a seduction for you, not even if it should offer you all the kingdoms of the world [Mt. 4:8]; for what is there, may I ask, that could surpass the delight of spiritual contemplation? (Praktikos 21. Cursus Completus Patrologiae, PG 40:1228).
>f you read this comparison for example, it will show how Francis of Assissi was in a state of pure imaginative self-deception, compared to St. Seraphim of Sarov, who did reach extremely high spiritual levels but never self-aggrandised, and retained his humility in his struggles to overcome his fallen human nature.
Both of their experiences are valid. I dont agree that Francis "Self Aggrandized". It is more so different expressions of their Mystical Awakenings via Christ

[Anonymous No.20551867]

>>20551831
>I get the same feeling. His attitude and comments come across as downright evil rather than kind and understanding.
Your type make up and side against the Christian Mystic and the Testimonies and treasures he shares with others (Ones shared so others may also eventually experience them) the same way that the Sadducees and Pharisees plotted against Christ and made up similar false Judgements which stirred up others against my Lord. Its such a sad site to see and my Spiritual Fathers in the Church warned me countless times that sharing my experiences with God would produce this exact thing
> It seems reckless that he would even encourage this "DIY" path which seems dangerous.
You read books DIY, you cook DIY, drive to work DIY, live your own DIY life, buy God forbid someone shares their personal relationship with God, by all means, NEVER DO THAT, How dare you have a personal relationship with God! (Seriously do you even hear yourself right now?)

[Anonymous No.20551898]

>>20551855
>The Abbots, Monks, Priests, and Spiritual Fathers that I receive guidance from say otherwise
So you're telling us that you've been under the guidance of a priest who you know in real life and have spoken to about your beliefs, right? You aren't just equating reading some books and things with having an actual spiritual father, right?

[Anonymous No.20551899]

it's time to settle this once and for all:
catholic
protestant
orthodox

Who's right?

[Anonymous No.20551905]

Did the Orthodox Church incorporate more neoplatonism than the Catholic Church?

[Anonymous No.20551921]

>>20551899
None of the Above; Do it Yourself anime imageboard Christianity is the Right Way. Scroll until You experience Mystical Ego Death, young Initiate

[Anonymous No.20551922]

>>20551905

No. Roman Catholicism, ironically despite their current arguments against Orthodox theology, commits far harder to actual neoplatonic doctrines with their understanding of divine simplicity, which if taken seriously either makes God Himself in his divinity deistically unexperiencable (most mainstream Catholic theology) or ends up turning everything into God pantheistically (Meister Eckhart, etc).

Orthodox Saints with philosophical training in neoplatonic categories used those categories where they were useful to explain the faith, but the fundamental presuppositions they are committed to, including the Orthodox understanding of divine simplicity, aren't shared with neoplatonism.

[Anonymous No.20551935]

>>20551898
>So you're telling us that you've been under the guidance of a priest who you know in real life and have spoken to about your beliefs, right?
Yes, quite a few of them actually
>You aren't just equating reading some books and things with having an actual spiritual father, right?
No not at all. My Mystical awakenings from reading Scripture, Loving God, attending Church services, and eventually getting Baptized were so Explosively Powerful and Mind Blowing, that I actively sought out council within the Denominations where Fathers and Monks/Abbots were/are also still having these same experiences, and my counsel with them confirmed that these things are of God and normal. It is actually the Westernized version of Christianity, for some reason, which is not really experiencing these things anymore, perhaps because the West has an emphasis of Logic/Reason over Love/Experience. That also has to do with the Great Schism, which in Eastern Orthodoxy, an emphases on Mystical Empowerment from the Holy Spirit indwelling is normal and to be looked forward to. While in Catholicism, things remained more Literal and Rigid
In another example, there used to be article here written by a Holy Father (as of right now the article is 404'ed not found)
https://saintandrewgoc.org/home/2012/8/16/without-divine-illumination-knowledge-ends-in-disaster.html
And in this article, it states that in Eastern Orthodox Contemplation/Prayer, eventually you receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and inner Illumination with Light, and that with this Inner light (Just like Paul experienced on the way to Damascus) from then on you can make inner progress into Theosis (Union with God in the Heart) but it is folly to try to do so without the light. (Just a small example of how the Mystical part of Christianity is still alive and well and common in the Orthodox churches)

[Anonymous No.20551941]

>>20551899
>Who's right?
this guy:
>>20551921

[Anonymous No.20551949]

>>20551855
>Right off the bat, you are attributing that the only valid spiritual experiences are those of the 1st Millenium Saints, and by Proxy that completely tosses out all other time periods and the people their in and their experiences as invalid. That's completely illogical.

You not liking the statement isn't proof that it's illogical.

>I dont agree that Francis "Self Aggrandized".

Saying that He Himself transformed bodily into Christ, and that he said that God couldn't tell who he loved more, either Francis of Christ, isn't self-aggrandizement? Come on.

>>20551867

>You read books DIY, you cook DIY, drive to work DIY, live your own DIY life, buy God forbid someone shares their personal relationship with God, by all means, NEVER DO THAT, How dare you have a personal relationship with God! (Seriously do you even hear yourself right now?)

Notice the histrionics. People who truly have had a direct experience of God don't degenerate into histrionics when others doubt their experience.

Having a personal relationship with God =/= discarnated, disjointed New Age spiritual experimentation outside of any tradition. The Apostles warned about false teachers, spreading false gospels, and false spiritualities.

Personal relationship with Christ is in the direct continuity of the lineage of His Saints, and being initiated into the divine life sacramentally into the body of Christ. Yes, you must do your own work - but you cannot invent your own approach to God, outside of the boundaries of the tradition that Christ Himself laid down.

[Anonymous No.20552000]

>>20551949
>You not liking the statement isn't proof that it's illogical.
Its not about liking or not liking, its about defining that "valid spiritual experience" can only be limited to such and such. By proxy that limits God
>Saying that He Himself transformed bodily into Christ, and that he said that God couldn't tell who he loved more, either Francis of Christ, isn't self-aggrandizement? Come on.
So that's not valid but Paul saying, "Not I but Christ in Me" is valid? No, just no. Whatever happened to Francis in that context, it appears by all nature to by a direct Mystical experience. He is not the only one to mention becoming Christ-Like and experiencing God's Love. Also God is allowed to share his Love in however measure he pleases, whenever and to whomever. This very well could have been 100% valid experience
>Notice the histrionics. People who truly have had a direct experience of God don't degenerate into histrionics when others doubt their experience.
Christ himself debated the Religious leaders in the Temples as scripture says. Imagine what the Pharisees/Saduccees had to say about him as he ran laps around their Judaism. If you consider healthy and normal debate to be Histrionics, then so was Christ debating in the temple called the same thing
>Having a personal relationship with God =/= discarnated, disjointed New Age spiritual experimentation outside of any tradition.
Says who? There are a lot of Universalities. Everyone breathes air (sinner, Atheist, new ager, Muslim, Christian, etc), they all have hearts capable of Love and falling in Love. They are all conscious Beings. If an Atheist writes about his experience of Loving his Children and how precious they are to him, that is a Universal Truth that does not belong to this or that denomination. Love is Universal. Also Christ was not any tradition or denomination, he was just himself, all the other stiff came after
>The Apostles warned about false teachers, spreading false gospels, and false spiritualities.
So did that Saduccees/Pharisees, so much so that they took Christ to be a liar and a threat to their System and they eventually killed him for it
>Personal relationship with Christ is in the direct continuity of the lineage of His Saints, and being initiated into the divine life sacramentally into the body of Christ. Yes, you must do your own work - but you cannot invent your own approach to God, outside of the boundaries of the tradition that Christ Himself laid down.
Everybody's approach to God is 100% unique to themselves and is invented there on the spot and direct experience for each person. We are all different, some are better with prayer, others better with faith, still others are rigid and angry with God and they have to soften with age, each person is a Unique path to God in themselves.

[Anonymous No.20552090]

>>20551573
None of this has anything to do with ‘ego death’. Being ‘born again’ is just spiritual rebirth, being baptized into Christ’s death and resurrection, which doesn’t involve ‘ego death’. Paul’s talk about Christ living in him isn’t ego death either, it’s being united to the Body of Christ, which is the opposite of ego death, since there are many people created in the image of God within it, multiple hypostases in Christ, each independent persons in themselves, just as the Trinity is multiple persons in one essence. Ego death is exact opposite of what Christ talked about, God is a relational being within the Godhead itself and our relation with God is a thoroughly I-Thou relationship. Stop reading heretical pagan texts.

[Anonymous No.20552106]

If salvation is only through faith why do the gospels teach differently? Jesus told the rich man to respect the commandments and even give away his wealth when asked about salvation.

[Anonymous No.20552110]

>>20552000
> Also Christ was not any tradition or denomination, he was just himself,
Christ referred to the teachings of the Pharisees (!) as orthodox and that people should follow what they say but don’t do what they do. He affirmed the validity of their tradition and even referred to extra-Scriptural aspects of this tradition such as the Seat of Moses. Christ himself founded a New Covenant with his disciples, fulfilling the promises given to the Israelites and passing this tradition to the Apostles and the Church that he founded, and they themselves passed it on, etc. To deny that Christ was the source of and identified himself with the traditions of the Israelites is laughable.

> Everybody's approach to God is 100% unique to themselves is invented there on the spot and direct experience for each person.
Jesus Christ did not teach this, nor did his apostles, nor did the early Church. You have zero spiritual discernment and appear to be in a deep state of spiritual delusion / prelest. This is what happens when you read the Bible apart from the Holy Tradition of the Apostles. We’ve all been there, but the end of this road is not Christianity.

[Anonymous No.20552121]

>>20552106
>If salvation is only through faith
It’s not, read James. ‘Faith alone’ is a false Gospel. Jesus taught and showed himself as an example for a reason. Read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew as well. Woe for the soul of one who does not do good works. Even demons believe in God, and they are not saved. Let’s not even forget passages where Paul says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling as fellow-workers with God, or how we were created for good works. Salvation is a gift of God though, and righteousness does now come through the Law of Moses. The entire faith / works debate comes from an extremely poor Protestant reading of Paul that conflates ‘works of the Law of Moses’ with ‘good works’ in general.

[Anonymous No.20552125]

>>20552090
>None of this has anything to do with ‘ego death’.
How do you know 100%? I disagree with you, I went through ego death after the Holy Spirit indwelled me and its referred to all over scripture. I would bet the farm and everything I own that Ego Death is an integral part of what Jesus taught and part of Christian life
>Being ‘born again’ is just spiritual rebirth
Ok what does that mean?
>being baptized into Christ’s death and resurrection, which doesn’t involve ‘ego death’.
So you just get Baptized symbolically and nothing else ever changes for you? You're supposed to always remain the same and never receive the Holy Spirit indwelling experience?
>Paul’s talk about Christ living in him isn’t ego death either, it’s being united to the Body of Christ
So only symbolically and no mystical experiences are ever supposed to happen?
>Ego death is exact opposite of what Christ talked about, God is a relational being within the Godhead itself and our relation with God is a thoroughly I-Thou relationship. Stop reading heretical pagan texts.
I disagree, there are way too many scriptures versus and Saints testimonies that say otherwise

[Anonymous No.20552144]

>>20552121
What about Ephesians 2:8–9 though?

[Anonymous No.20552151]

>>20552125
>I disagree with you, I went through ego death after the Holy Spirit indwelled me and its referred to all over scripture. I would bet the farm and everything I own that Ego Death is an integral part of what Jesus taught and part of Christian life
The Bible, and its authoritative interpretations given by the Apostles, the Church Fathers, and so on through the centuries do not agree with you. Ego death is not a Christian idea, it is an idea peddled by drug-users and pagans. You need to understand the idea of ‘prelest’, because I fear that you suffer from it, thinking that you know exactly what the Bible says, and that you know that something you experienced was undoubtedly the Spirit when a simple look at monastic literature will show that demons appear to people as Christ himself and other figures quite often to trick people who are likely to fall for it.

The rest of your post is borderline dishonest, because I never have denied spiritual experiences or the indwelling of the Spirit, I’m telling you that ‘ego death’ is not a part of the Christian faith, and that union with God in the Christian tradition is a mystical connection with God that preserves individuality, this should be clear from how the Bible compares union with God to marriage. Married couples are ‘one flesh’, but do not cease to be distinct individuals. Paul even mentions this idea directly in Ephesians with the Church and God, but we do not merge into Christ like some sort of Hindu pagan ideas. We are like a Bridegroom (God) and a bride (us)—we can become ‘one flesh’ or ‘one spirit’, but it is from participation, not ‘ego death’, which is pagan

[Anonymous No.20552153]

>>20552110
>Christ referred to the teachings of the Pharisees (!) as orthodox and that people should follow what they say but don’t do what they do.
Where is the verse to support this?
>He affirmed the validity of their tradition
If he affirmed them, then they wouldnt have crucified him and he wouldnt have called them the "Synagogue of Satan" as well as breaking a number of Judaic rules
> Christ himself founded a New Covenant with his disciples, fulfilling the promises given to the Israelites and passing this tradition to the Apostles and the Church that he founded, and they themselves passed it on, etc. To deny that Christ was the source of and identified himself with the traditions of the Israelites is laughable.
Lets see, they disagree with him, want to stone him, eventually crucify him, he calls them Synagogue of Satan, and they eventually makes sure he is capture and crucified. Doesnt at all sound like he was part of their whole deal, and we also have the links between Jesus and the Essenes which paints a whole other picture
>Jesus Christ did not teach this
Sure he did. He talked to each disciple personally, discussing each ones futures, gifts, follies and like wise. You have to be insine to deny each person's individuality and perspective on life, for we experience Life through our own personal lens and come to God in a personal manner, it cannot be done any other way, for your own life and individuality is THE universal ground from which you experience anything at all. To deny your own experience is sheer insanity
>You have zero spiritual discernment and appear to be in a deep state of spiritual delusion / prelest.
Says the guy who denies his own personal experience. Thanks but no thanks. I cannot take someone seriously in any kind of discussion if they deny reality being experienced from the individuals perspective, only an AI or Robot would make such a claim

[Anonymous No.20552161]

>>20552151
Not that anon but can I ask what's your denomination?

[Anonymous No.20552166]

>>20552144
Read verse 10. Proper exegesis is done holistically of everything the NT says too.

[Anonymous No.20552171]

>>20552161
Orthodox

[Anonymous No.20552181]

>>20552144

Easy: You are not saved by your works, because you cannot save yourself. You must be saved by Christ. If our works were the only thing requiring us to be saved, then we wouldn't need Christ.

But does that mean that you can sit on your butt all day and do nothing? No - faith without works is dead. Keeping our faith, and growing closer to God, is a work.

Why does Christ transform bread and wine into his flesh and blood, instead of wheat and grapes? Bread and wine are processed versions of wheat and grapes that have been transformed by human work - through images of death and resurrection (fermentation in both risen bread and wine). This is a clear symbol of synergy with God and Man - if it was faith alone without man's work, he would transform wheat and grapes into his flesh and blood. If it was works alone without God... well that would be impossible to symbolise, since without God you don't have anything.

We cannot do any works without Christ giving us the wheat and grapes by grace in the first place, but then Christ transfigures the works we have done by adding more grace to our products of works. This is why Christ also gives the parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14-30, since different people receive different symbolic "wheat and grapes" from God.

[Anonymous No.20552193]

>>20552151
>The Bible, and its authoritative interpretations given by the Apostles, the Church Fathers, and so on through the centuries do not agree with you.
You limit God then. If God wants to come down and allow a person to experience him, then that is God's will, he is not limited to what you think or say of him. God allowing himself to be experienced by a person doesnt in any way clash with " Apostles, the Church Fathers, and so on through the centuries"
>Ego death is not a Christian idea
It exists in Eastern Orthodoxy and is part of the process of Theosis, so you have a whole Denomination in disagreement with your take
> it is an idea peddled by drug-users and pagans.
That's a lie. Ego death is Universal. Its something that happens when you Love your kids, or when you go to sleep every night the ego is let go of as you enter deep sleep. This is part of existence and part of the church. You cannot be Egoic and Love God truly at the same time
> You need to understand the idea of ‘prelest’,
I have Church Fathers who have gone through what I have gone through. So your prelest doesnt mean much
> because I fear that you suffer from it, thinking that you know exactly what the Bible says
I dont claim to know exactly what the entire Bible says buy I do claim to Know intimate Love of God and how I transformed from Loving God as Jesus instructed us to in the Greatest Commandment. I practiced Loving God for many years until God reached out and allowed me to experience him
>and that you know that something you experienced was undoubtedly the Spirit when a simple look at monastic literature will show that demons appear to people as Christ himself and other figures quite often to trick people who are likely to fall for it.
So the solution is to remain an egoic animalistic sinner who never ever gets to experience God or be transformed into Christ-likeness for your entire life, and any experience that appears to possibly be Mystical Grace from God is to be entirely rejected because they are all tricks from demons and therefore nothing can ever be excepted because its all tricks lol. This is sheer insanity. Your Fear of trickery blocks you from experiencing God because then you think every experience is a trick, when the whole time that itself is a Demonic trick from ever allowing you to experience God by rejecting it all
>The rest of your post is borderline dishonest
I have nothing to be dishonest about, God knows my heart so I am completely at ease
>because I never have denied spiritual experiences
You deny "personal experience" as not valid though, so that means anything that you tell me you experience or dont experience is also not valid
>or the indwelling of the Spirit,
Have you experienced this Bliss, Grace, Love, Light that is given to you be the Holy Spirit Indwelling experience or no? Because there are a ton of Christians who have not, and thats ok

[Anonymous No.20552198]

What are the most important books aside from the Pentateuch, the poetry books in the OT, and the Gospels?

[Anonymous No.20552202]

>>20552151
>I’m telling you that ‘ego death’ is not a part of the Christian faith,
agree to disagree. Makes total sense now why there are so many denominations. As someone who experienced ego death, it would make zero sense to be involved with denominations who believe this isnt a real thing
> and that union with God in the Christian tradition is a mystical connection with God that preserves individuality
Who says that ego death destory individuality? I am not my ego, the ego is just thoughts and ideas. Who I am, is prior to the ego and when I was a baby/Child, I did not have one. This is why Christ teaches to be like Children for to them is the Kingdom of Heaven. Be like Egoless Children
>couples are ‘one flesh’, but do not cease to be distinct individuals.
I have lost my individuality when I have become "One" with my Wife plenty of times. You Lose yourself in Love and that's perfectly fine. Perhaps your individuality is too rigid and keeps you from experiencing deeper levels of Love

[Anonymous No.20552213]

>>20552193
>You limit God then
Christ told us that the Holy Spirit would come and guide us into all truth, and the Apostles taught that the Church was the bulwark and foundation of all truth. The Apostles and the Church they helped established and the centuries of works by the saints are a firm foundation by which to judge one’s experiences by, as well as of course the Scriptures. Doesn’t bode well for pagan ‘ego death’ ideas.

> is part of the process of Theosis
Theosis does not involve ego death or destruction of individuality. You have fundamentally failed to grasp theosis.

> I have Church Fathers who have gone through what I have gone through. So your prelest doesnt mean much
‘No u’ — very childish. Notice how you have yet to drop names or citations or yet.

> Your Fear of trickery blocks you from experiencing God because then you think every experience is a trick, when the whole time that itself is a Demonic trick from ever allowing you to experience God by rejecting it all
God would rather have you be cautious and ward off demons than to fall into their snares. Scripture and the Holy Fathers teach discernment about spirits and visions, and since you literally believe theosis is some sort of non-dual gibberish, you certainly do not have discernment, I am sorry to say.

> You deny "personal experience" as not valid though
Lol

> Have you experienced this Bliss, Grace, Love, Light that is given to you be the Holy Spirit Indwelling experience or no?
Yes, and it’s not ego death.

[Anonymous No.20552232]

>>20552202
> agree to disagree. Makes total sense now why there are so many denominations.
Because people like you get misled by demons and preach accursed Gospels? Yes, sadly.

> Who says that ego death destory individuality?
“Ego death is a "complete loss of subjective self-identity” […] The concept is also used in contemporary New Age spirituality and in the modern understanding of Eastern religions to describe a permanent loss of "attachment to a separate sense of self" and self-centeredness.””

i.e. it’s a pagan New Age idea that has nothing to do with the Gospel.

> I have lost my individuality when I have become "One" with my Wife plenty of times.
You’re still you, end of story.

[Anonymous No.20552243]

>>20552213
>Christ told us that the Holy Spirit would come and guide us into all truth
of course he did, but you can ask Christians who have received the Holy Spirit and they will admit there was a period they were Christians where they had not yet received the Holy Spirit indwelling, and even afterwards, you're not going to know all "truths"
> and the Apostles taught that the Church was the bulwark and foundation of all truth.
That Church is made up of Individuals and their (direct and personal experience with Christ and with each other, and with Holy Spirit and God)
>The Apostles and the Church they helped established and the centuries of works by the saints are a firm foundation by which to judge one’s experiences by,
And there are plenty of Mystical experiences described by them (Speaking in tongues, Transfiguration, Paul blinded by the Light, Paul and the Out of Body Silver cord reference, and on and on)
>Doesn’t bode well for pagan ‘ego death’ ideas.
Ego death isnt Pagan, its Universal. Its like Breathing air, breathing doesnt belong to any group, it just is.
>Theosis does not involve ego death or destruction of individuality.
You wouldnt know unless you went through it
>You have fundamentally failed to grasp theosis.
Your grasp is merely theoretical, I'd much rather trust the words of someone who went through it over you
>‘No u’ — very childish. Notice how you have yet to drop names or citations or yet.
Why should I divulge which Monasteries I go to and who gives me guidance when the points, links, books, scriptures, and debate can stand on its own? Do you want to go e-mailing and calling my Church Fathers to harass them over theology?
>God would rather have you be cautious and ward off demons than to fall into their snares.
Except that it could have been God knocking and you rejected him thinking him as something else.
>Scripture and the Holy Fathers teach discernment about spirits and visions,
Of course, but you can also become so rigid in your fear, that you reject the Holy Spirit himself and Ive seen it happen and have spoken with authorities who say this happens, people reject the indwelling due to faulty teachings. Very well could be the case with you
>and since you literally believe theosis is some sort of non-dual gibberish, you certainly do not have discernment, I am sorry to say.
I dont care what you think. If God is a NonDual One Beingness, then he is whatever he is regardless of what you believe. I would never create some sort of Mental Absolutism about God's nature like you do.
>Yes, and it’s not ego death.
That's too bad, you could go a lot deeper into the Heart if you realized you are not the ego

[Anonymous No.20552257]

>>20552232
>Because people like you get misled by demons and preach accursed Gospels? Yes, sadly.
I was going to say the same about you. The Demon who has mislead you, has made you believe all experiences are some sort of demons waiting to trick you and that personal experience is invalid, and that being a Christian has to be only the way you say it is
>Ego death is a "complete loss of subjective self-identity” […] The concept is also used in contemporary New Age spirituality and in the modern understanding of Eastern religions to describe a permanent loss of "attachment to a separate sense of self" and self-centeredness.””
Ego death predates the existence of the New Age movement and it is a universal experience that can and does happen in various lifer experiences: Near Death Experiences, Accidents, Making Love, Doing something for your children. You sound like one of those Baptists who thinks everything is of the devil
>i.e. it’s a pagan New Age idea that has nothing to do with the Gospel.
Ego Death predate Paganism and is a Universal human experience that doesnt belong to a group
>You’re still you, end of story.
Im not Me when I lose me. My direct experience completely counters your false absolutism.

[Anonymous No.20552301]

How good is the New Genesis Gospel?

[Anonymous No.20552307]

do you think The Rapture comes soon?

[Anonymous No.20552318]

>>20552198
The prophets (especially those quoted in the Gospels), too.

[Anonymous No.20552337]

>>20551360
you're literally not a monotheist. it's as simple as that. if you're asking for people to explain what they mean by that, and they're not treating you well, it's because it's a retarded question not worth any one's time.

[Anonymous No.20552341]

>>20550810
Why do Protestants always lie?

[Anonymous No.20552351]

>>20552337
>you're literally not a monotheist. it's as simple as that.
I am literally not anything you believe me or think I am. You have constructed this Concept and framework of me, in your mind, and that's all it is, is an Imagined intangible set of concepts. What I am in my Heart is a Lover of God, Lover of Christ and of the Holy Spirit. Simple as
>if you're asking for people to explain what they mean by that
Nobody will understand where Im coming from except those who also received the Holy Spirit indwelling in the same way, and luckily I have found many Brothers and Fathers in Monastic settings who know
>and they're not treating you well
People killed Christ for his stance and not understanding where he's coming from, so this comes with the territory when discussing God's Transcendent nature with people
>it's because it's a retarded question not worth any one's time.
You can leave anytime you want, free will

[Anonymous No.20552362]

Saτanic Jaηηies keeping you down?
This imageβoard has nearly no moderation and all but 1 of 20 boards are dead and ready to colonize: I suggest the least populated one.
There’s no moderation beyond the essential and he even does q&a dialogues from time to time.

[Anonymous No.20552603]

Can someone help explain to me Heaven? Is there no concept of time? How do you look when you arrive to heaven, the way you were when you died or any way you want to see yourself?
If someone you loved died and you died 40 years later are they waiting 40 years for you to show up?

[Anonymous No.20552652]

>>20550162
reminder that you have never read the bible if you read a "translation"

the true bible can only be read in the original langauges

[Anonymous No.20553279]

>>20552341
>lie
it's true. If you were caught with an english bible you and your entire family would be burned alive. And then the catholic church would just steal your house, land, and all your shit

[Anonymous No.20553284]

>>20552341
because they are deceived and they serve the great deceiver.

[Anonymous No.20553291]

>>20552166
>>20552181
What about
>John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
>John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
>John 18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
>36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
>Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
>Romans 10:9-10
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

[Anonymous No.20553299]

>>20553279
>these tired, debunked memes
Okay, Anthony. Time for bed.

[Anonymous No.20553310]

>>20553291

What about them? Nothing you're copypasting is contradicting what I've said here >>20552181

[Anonymous No.20553339]

>>20553310
They do: they expllicitly and directly say that faith is enough to be said. You posted an interpretation of a miracle, but that doesn't mean you can discard verses from the Bible that literally say things like "whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

[Anonymous No.20553356]

>>20550208
I have the Premier Collection Grace and Truth Study Bible and I love it.

[Anonymous No.20553361]

>>20553339

Nothing I wrote discarded the fact that whoever believes in Christ do not perish, but have eternal life.

But who is it that believes in Christ? Is it a person who works to fulfill all of the rest of Christ's commandments for their salvation, or not?

Let's see what James 2:14-26 says:

>What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

>But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

>Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

>For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So when faced with the epistle of James, what should you do? Throw out the Epistle of James, and ignore Holy Scripture? Surely you can't do that.

That's why I offered a view of the synthesis of these two necessities - faith and works - in this post here >>20552181, and backed it up with how it's symbolically backed up in Holy Communion.

However, if you do want to throw out the Epistle of James, then put your money where your mouth is: If you only need faith to be saved, live the most degenerate life you can possibly live. Break all of the other commandments that Christ has laid out for us.

Break each and every commandment, ignore every single other piece of scripture, except for the one that requires you to have faith in Christ. All because you can pluck verses out of context to say that all you need is faith.

Go ahead. Do it. See where your spiritual life goes where you actively break every one of Christ's commandments, except for the one that's says you must have faith in Christ. After all, you've thrown out the Epistle of James - you no longer consider it scripture, and you can decide for yourself what's true Christianity or not, just keep throwing out more scripture that disagrees with other parts of scripture. Keep butchering it and dividing it, until it only agrees with what you want it to say, instead of trying to believe all of it.

[Anonymous No.20553468]

>>20553361
I don't want to do any of this, I want to understand the Protestant viewpoint. See e.g. https://www.gotquestions.org/catholicism.html where I got the verses from. That entire site is so sure that Catholicism and Orthodox is wrong that I want to undersand what's the basis of it and the counterarguments. I also don't think faith alone makes sense, but if it gave birth to the entire Protestant branch I'm thinking it may have some merit I don't see.

[Anonymous No.20553547]

>>20553468

>but if it gave birth to the entire Protestant branch I'm thinking it may have some merit I don't see.

It's good that you're honestly investigating different viewpoints, but your intuition that, if a doctrinal difference gave birth to an entire new branch of Christianity, then your intuition isn't quite right.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. [John 16:13] The Holy Spirit, leading us into all truth, naturally would lead Christians into a unity of faith, since truth is united, and not divided and self-disagreeing. If there's an ecclesiastical division caused by disagreement about a fundamental truth, ie a matter of heresy, then it's evidence that there's a lack of the Holy Spirit there. I'm Orthodox, so I believe that this unity of faith and truth, and the presence of the Holy Spirit, has been retained in Orthodoxy.

Whenever there's a division, then you have to ask: Which side is in the right side of doctrinal division? Sometimes it's neither, and in that case you have to find the third position in the controversy.

But in the case of Protestantism, are they in the right? The answer is obvious if you look at the fruits today: There are countless Protestants today that do not actually believe that faith alone, because the Protestant scheme is atomistic and you can end up believing whatever you want, as long as you focus on some parts of scripture and ignore others. The division in Protestantism has simply caused more divisions of the same type. The fruit of Protestantism has been even more division, and modern branches of Protestantism are nothing like the original reformers.

There are many good reasons why the Protestants did the reformation, by rejecting many of the Papacy's innovations, but they implicitly kept a lot of the Papacy's mistakes along with their rejection of many errors. Martin Luther even had correspondence with the Greek Orthodox Church, but ultimately committed to re-inventing Christianity according to his own thoughts, instead of returning to the older pre-Papal faith. Details about this are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_vdEu_eD_8

[Anonymous No.20553550]

>>20553547

*but your intuition that, if a doctrinal difference gave birth to an entire new branch of Christianity, then this doctrinal difference must be good, then your intuition isn't quite right.

[Anonymous No.20553660]

How long would it take for one man to make a translator of the Bible (Latin Vulgate) by himself?