/lit/ - Literature

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/clg/ - Classical Languages General Anonymous Sat Jun 18 00:41:25 2022 No.20542003 [Reply] [Original]

Ēditiō nocturna
Prius fīlum: >>20528811

https://mega.nz/#F!9o4QEIIK!P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

Remember, all claims about Latin the author can't back up in Latin are to be disregarded.
Mementōte, omnēs dē linguā Latīnā assertiōnēs quās auctor Latīnē corrōborāre nōn potest abiciendae sunt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 00:42:25 2022 No.20542010 first for zyzz

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 00:52:56 2022 No.20542051 File: 442 KB, 499x500, 1619356009380.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Christus est rex

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:23:17 2022 No.20542143 >>20542003 Omnis gladius vagina sua eget

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:29:52 2022 No.20542164 >he wastes time on /CLG/ arguing about the best way to acquire a language instead of gaining experience learning languages, which by far trumps any argument with retards on a mongolian basket weaving forum on this topic

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:30:56 2022 No.20542169 >>20542164 holy fucking based

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:37:57 2022 No.20542195

>>20542003
>Remember, all claims about Latin the author can't back up in Latin are to be disregarded.
LLPSIfags are immune to this rule because they said it's "anecdotal evidence" to speak a language to defend the very method that you scream about 24/7 in order to learn said language.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:43:35 2022 No.20542213 >>20542195 Scientific evidence about the general nature of the human brain and language acquisition is more relevant than this or that particular person's individual language abilities, yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:46:21 2022 No.20542222 File: 32 KB, 600x600, 018.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20542213 This is like when a guy gives you advice on how to pick up girls, but when you ask to see his girlfriend he says that she goes to a different school.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:48:13 2022 No.20542228 >>20542222 Or when a girl says it's okay to be short, but it just so happens...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:48:19 2022 No.20542229 >>20542222 I'm not offering personal advice, I'm pointing to the scientific evidence. What I personally do or don't do doesn't change what it says.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 01:49:41 2022 No.20542236 >>20542164 Sorry shitlord, only I have good language learning advice >>20541981

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:02:25 2022 No.20542278

>>20542229
A hypothesis is either capable of being disproven by showing evidence to the contrary, or it is entirely pseudoscientific. If the input hypothesis can only be "proven" right by the means of anectodes described in such a way that they perfectly fit within the narrative promoted by it but cannot be proven wrong, it is essentially equal to religious dogma in its lack of capacity for being questioned.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:05:10 2022 No.20542290 >>20542278 I've linked sources about this before, I'm not going to do your homework for you again.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:07:00 2022 No.20542296

>>20542290
I don't care how much research a fat kid gives me, I'm not taking his dietary advice. And I'm not taking dating advice from someone with an invisible girlfriend either, so why would I go by the words of someone who doesn't speak latin in order to learn how to speak latin?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:10:08 2022 No.20542302 >>20542003 LATINE DICENDVM EST. ANGLICE LOQVENTES ABITE.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:15:31 2022 No.20542318

>>20542290
You're just playing the same trick religitards do when questioned about the existence of God and miracles perdormed by saints, which is to cite favorable evidence and dismiss all criticism, objections, and possible counter-proofs revealing cracks in the structure as "preposterous nonsense not even worth spending time on", or as "lies said in bad faith by a person of an unwell mind".

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:19:47 2022 No.20542330

>>20542296
>I don't care how much research a fat kid gives me, I'm not taking his dietary advice.
I'm not asking you to take my advice because I'm giving it or on personal merit, I'm asking you to look at the overwhelming scientific evidence, which remains the same regardless of what I in particular do or don't do.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:23:24 2022 No.20542341

>>20542330
But if you don't know how to speak Latin, then you are not a good judge of good Latin. If you can't demonstrate language skills, then you cannot comment on pedagogy. If you've never read Wheelock's Latin, then no one gives a fuck what your opinion is on the book. If you've never finished Familia Romana, then I don't want your fucking review.

What you don't seem to understand is that any rando with zero idea of what he's doing can cherry pick studies to justify whatever vaccine arguments, religious miracles, conspiracy theories, you name it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:23:54 2022 No.20542344 >>20542330 >Just trust the science. Don't ask any questions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:26:17 2022 No.20542348 every thread the same autistic screeching about grammar vs inpoot/LLPSI. holy shit are you faggots tiresome.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:27:02 2022 No.20542349 >>20542348 It's really just one Esperanto tranny and people give him a ton of ((yous)) so he keeps coming back for more.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:29:38 2022 No.20542361 De LLPSI satis dictum arbtitror

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:45:05 2022 No.20542417

>>20542341
If you think the studies aren't valid, criticize them- methodology, assumptions, etc. Don't bring my character into it, which has nothing to do with their validity.
>>20542349
Nah, I only got back here recently. I'm not the only person here who thinks grammar-translation is stupid.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:49:25 2022 No.20542435

>>20542417
>grammar-translation
Here's me criticizing the theory and not you: There is no such thing as a "grammar translation method". Invented term by YouTubers. You don't have to translate a single sentence in Wheelock if you don't want to and you can translate every sentence in LLPSI likewise. Translation is a task, not a language learning method. If you are doing self study, then you choose your own tasks. Literally not a single person in any /clg/ thread in this history of this site has argued that translating slowly was a good way to learn Latin. They have defended textbooks that YOU label "grammar translation method", despite like I said - no one actually defending OPTIONAL translation exercises that can be completely ignored and are not essential to benefit from the use of the book.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:57:34 2022 No.20542468 >>20542349 Did Esperanto tranny prove they knew any languages other than English?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:58:49 2022 No.20542475 >>20542468 Nope. He just cherry picks youtube videos and blow posts and calls it evidence. He says he won't repost any and that's because last time I refuted every link he posted and he never replied.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 02:59:50 2022 No.20542483 >>20542475 blog posts*

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:05:00 2022 No.20542511

>>20542468
Jes ja, mi plurfoje afiŝis per aliaj lingvoj.
Yes I have, I've posted in other languages several times.
Pero sí que posteaba varias veces en otros idiomas.
だって数回も多言語で書き込んだことありますわ。
taso tenpo mute la mi sitelen kepeken toki ante.
>>20542475
You did not refute them, you cherry-picked single lines out of them and dismissed them.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:33:33 2022 No.20542622

Caesar:
Romani conversa signa bipertito intulerunt: prima et secunda acies, ut victis ac submotis resisteret, tertia, ut venientes sustineret. Ita ancipiti proelio diu atque acriter pugnatum est.

What is the subject of the 2nd sentence? I read the sentence with ancipiti proelio as the subject but I don't understand why it's in dative/ablative. Is it an ablative of means with an implied subject that I'm missing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:35:48 2022 No.20542632 >>20542622 Ask the Esperanto tranny above you, he's the expert.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:37:59 2022 No.20542641 >>20542632 I didn't claim to be an expert about Latin, or about anything in particular, I only claimed that the overwhelming scientific evidence says comprehensible input is important and grammar-translation doesn't work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:39:42 2022 No.20542645 >>20542632 >>20542641 Can either of you answer my question though? Holy fuck all of this elementary textbook shit slinging had died down for a few weeks and it was so nice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:44:11 2022 No.20542665 >>20542641 GTM does work, just for people with developed frontal lobes

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 03:47:33 2022 No.20542688 >>20542665 It "works" to learn to translate into your native language and understand THAT rather than learn to understand the original language itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:02:13 2022 No.20542736 File: 12 KB, 374x359, 1654547939829.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] obsecro ne persequamini

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:08:02 2022 No.20542774 >>20542688 Just leave the thread, sir. This is a women's area.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:12:53 2022 No.20542800 >>20542774 I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only woman posting here lol

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:21:01 2022 No.20542831

>>20542688
Why does it have to be an either/or debate? Why not just do what works best for the person learning the language? Grammar translation or inpoot or grammar translation and inpoot, does it really matter if they're understanding the text? It seems an argument more appropriate for an academic setting where one method is forced on students. That isn't the case with the self-learner.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:24:57 2022 No.20542848 >>20542831 "Reading" by translating will necessarily be slower and more effortful than actually reading, for one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:27:17 2022 No.20542856 >>20542003 Why don't any of you guys talk about Greek? I'm on chapter 7 of From Alpha to Omega right now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:33:30 2022 No.20542876 >>20542800 Stop oppressing me, I identify you as a man.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:35:31 2022 No.20542883 >>20542511 >わ So Esperanto anon is a tranny?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:36:30 2022 No.20542888 >>20542883 I'm a woman lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:39:19 2022 No.20542897 File: 145 KB, 1000x667, 1000_F_228872296_rPLaoD0EF3jB3Ou6fwj2LpHiVPIN86Uq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20542888

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:39:41 2022 No.20542899

>>20542848
One can read the original without translating it, then translate it to his native language(which usually has a different focus, you can read a sentence and understand it, but have problem translating it because some words are not easily translated to your native language[lack of an one-to-one correspondence, for example]) and then translate it back, so checking the difference between the original and his re-translation. This always has worked for me and helps me get better at writing in the target language, given that right now I'm shitposting in English, not my native language.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 04:43:06 2022 No.20542904 >>20542897 Wow, be careful not to cut yourself on that edge.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:02:50 2022 No.20542963

>>20542848
>"Reading" by translating
Nobody here does that. You never read the book. You've never asked someone who used the book. You are quoting someone who has also never used the book. No one is translating anything unless they are a 12 year old doing a homework assignment for school

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:29:13 2022 No.20543066

>>20542511
>posteaba
If you can't tell why using the present perfect here instead of the imperfect here would have been more appropriate, then you might have been severely overestimating your ability to speak and write in Spanish. I'm not gonna comment on the other two languages because I don't know Esperanto and I can't speak Japanese well enough to say how it should be corrected.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:33:59 2022 No.20543080 >>20543066 It's happened multiple times in the past over a stretch of time, no?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:42:01 2022 No.20543099 >>20542888 You're a man that tries to force other people to call him a woman

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:50:56 2022 No.20543126 >>20542511 あなた絶対に女になることがないよ

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 05:54:42 2022 No.20543133 >>20543099 I factually am a woman. Doesn't matter whether you believe me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:09:07 2022 No.20543175 >>20543133 Factually, but not really

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:19:45 2022 No.20543204 >>20542511 >posteaba No tiene sentido usar el pretérito imperfecto en este caso. Por no mencionar ese aberrante anglicismo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:22:25 2022 No.20543210 >>20543204 Como deberia decirlo?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:26:35 2022 No.20543217 >>20543210 Ya he posteado, aunque algunos españoles de ciertas regiones como Galicia preferirían posteé

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:29:53 2022 No.20543222 >>20543217 Posteé? Aunque lo he hecho varias veces y no la unica?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:30:51 2022 No.20543224 >>20543204 >>20543210 Fuck Esperanto tranny but it's grammatically sound. They used the verb form standardized by RAE in relation to the rest of the sentence. What Angloism?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:32:19 2022 No.20543229 >>20543224 Yeah well fuck you too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:33:49 2022 No.20543233 >>20543222 Aunque lo haya hecho >no la unica y no una sola Y sí, no tiene nada que ver cuántas veces hayas hecho algo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:33:52 2022 No.20543234 >>20543224 How do people know they're a tranny? That they call themselves a she, and learned languages, and latched onto a general are already bad signs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:35:43 2022 No.20543239 >>20543224 Onions un nativo. Decir posteaba aquí significaría que tenía la costumbre de "postear" en otros idiomas, no que ya lo ha hecho.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:36:17 2022 No.20543242

>>20543233
>Aunque lo haya hecho
Why would it be subjunctive even though I actually did do it? Just because 'aunque'? I didn't think it always took subjunctive even if it often did.
>Y sí, no tiene nada que ver cuántas veces hayas hecho algo.
Supongo que es algo mas complicado que he entendido.
>>20543234
>How do people know they're a tranny? That they call themselves a she
What, so there are no cis women on 4chan?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:37:59 2022 No.20543243 >>20543242 >cis Okay they're a tranny

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:39:26 2022 No.20543247 >>20543242 >Why Intúyelo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:40:32 2022 No.20543249 >>20543243 Are you saying no cis person would use the word 'cis'? I know plenty who do.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:46:28 2022 No.20543259

>>20543249
We can tell you're a tranny because you derailed another thread, this time with tranny politics.

You abuse the Latin language with words like "cis" for a lobbyist agenda and then hop on here to call yourself a woman and brag about knowing Esperanto and you are wondering why people think you are a fat transexual retard?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:48:15 2022 No.20543267 >>20543259 >You abuse the Latin language with words like "cis" for a lobbyist agenda ...Having a word for 'not transgender' is a lobbyist agenda?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:49:17 2022 No.20543269 >>20543259 Also I take exception to the 'fat' part, I'm about 178cm and 66k.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:49:31 2022 No.20543270 >>20543267 Misusing the Latin language to categorize non-mentally disturbed people - yes that is a deranged far left agenda from a corrupt political lobby.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:51:19 2022 No.20543271 >>20543270 Lmao fuck off back to /pol/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:53:31 2022 No.20543273 >>20543242 >Supongo que es algo mas complicado que he entendido. Por cierto, ésta también está mal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:55:26 2022 No.20543277 >>20543271 I'm actually going to go study instead. I'm not white or right wing and I'm not spending my Friday night arguing with an incel who tried to looksmaxx his way into being a bootleg "woman".

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:55:47 2022 No.20543278 >>20543273 Cual tiempo he debido usar aqui?

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:58:38 2022 No.20543288

>>20543277
Okay fine yes, I'm trans, I admit it. I had had a girlfriend already before I came out, so not an incel. And I'm not trying to "looksmaxx" or whatever, I just have gender dysphoria. I'd wish it on you so you could understand what it's like, but that would be too cruel- it's decidedly unpleasant. At any rate there is no "trans agenda" beyond "please don't persecute or harass us, exclude us from public life, or deny us needed medical treatment."
Also
>"not right-wing"
>considers trans people mentally disturbed

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 06:59:49 2022 No.20543294 >>20543278 >Cual >he debido Algo sabes de español pero está claro que tú nivel es el de un principiante. Y aprende a usar las tildes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:00:50 2022 No.20543297 >>20543294 >tú tu Puto autocorrector

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:04:07 2022 No.20543306

>>20543294
Puedo leer, es el hablar/escribir que me falta principalmente
Y no tengo el teclado adecuado- ya tengo tres en este computador y seria un poco molestoso cambiar entre cuatro cuando no escribo en espan~ol tan frecuentemente como ya puedes ver.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:05:07 2022 No.20543313 >>20543306 ack, computadora o ordenador Quiza confundi las dos palabras.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:06:25 2022 No.20543315 You classical language trannies are such midwits holy kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:09:19 2022 No.20543325 >>20543315 For the record, my Classical Chinese is a lot better than my Latin, though I'm sure it's still not all the way there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:11:37 2022 No.20543327 >>20543306 A mí no se me ocurriría ir dando lecciones sobre cómo aprender un idioma con ese nivel.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:13:05 2022 No.20543330 >>20543327 Mi Esperanto es mejor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:16:21 2022 No.20543340 thread ruined by espranto tranny and llpsi chimp

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:19:27 2022 No.20543344 >>20543330 No jodas macho, faltaría más, tratándose de una lengua artificial inventada con el propósito de ser inequívoca y evitar este tipo de dificultades.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:19:48 2022 No.20543347 >>20543340 i hate trannies and i hate LLPSI

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:20:44 2022 No.20543353 >>20543340 As always

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:21:39 2022 No.20543354 >>20543344 Aunque sea mas facil que las lenguas naturales no es totalmente facil. Aun es un idioma completo con que esprimir cualquier cosa.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:27:15 2022 No.20543363 >>20543354 ¿Y qué? Tu método no parece funcionar para el aprendizaje de lenguas naturales, tanto menos para el de lenguas muertas. I won't keep answering in Spanish since this is not a Spanish thread btw

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:28:11 2022 No.20543365 >>20543363 To be fair I haven't actively used Spanish in a couple years, I've gotten a bit rusty. I need to get back in the habit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:34:45 2022 No.20543375 >>20543325 How do you go about learning ancient Chinese anyways? Do you start with Mandarin?

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:40:27 2022 No.20543392

>>20543375
Personally I first came to it via Japanese, and initially tried to read it in the traditional Japanese manner (kanbun) before eventually switching to using Mandarin readings. I actually picked up a lot of my Mandarin by tangential exposure from Classical Chinese. But you don't actually have to learn any modern Sinosphere language to learn Classical Chinese. Lexicity and Lexilogos have resources for it. I started a project for a "Lingua Sinica Classica Per Se Illustrata" with some friends but we've yet to get very far.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:44:51 2022 No.20543399 >>20542511 montras mamojn Show your tits Muestra tus tetas おっぱい見せて sina wan o ken e lukin nena sike meli (this one is most certainly wrong)

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:46:06 2022 No.20543406

>>20542856
I study greek every day but mostly just lurk here. I'm past complaining about how difficult the grammar is but still far away from being able to shitpost in greek.
There aren't really any accessible materials of classical greek which means that less people are learning it. There aren't really any good content creators either (aside from podium arts), so any sort of online culture surrounding the language hasn't come into being.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 07:47:54 2022 No.20543410

>>20543399
>montras mamojn
*montru, it's imperative
>sina wan o ken e lukin nena sike meli (this one is most certainly wrong)
"You alone, enable/allow the round feminine sight of a mound!" is the closest I can make out of that.
And the last time I did that on a blue board I got banned.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:04:46 2022 No.20543426 >Ilia omnium urbis viarum brevissima fuit. >That was the shortest route to all those cities Did I get this right? If that's correct I think i'll be fine putting >This is the easiest of all the ways through the territories of the Gauls. Into Latin.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:22:37 2022 No.20543442

οὐκοῦν ἐθέλετε παύεσθαι διαλεγόμενοι περὶ τῶν διττῶν μεθόδων ὁπότερον δεῖ μαθεῖν Ῥωμαῒζειν τῷ λλπσὶ ἢ ἄλλως; ἐγὼ δ’ἂν μᾶλλον ἡδοίμην ἐὰν ποιῶμεν λόγους τινὰς οὓς πρέπει ὡς ἀληθῶς καλεῖσθαι ’φιλολογικούς’. οἶδα τοίνυν ὅτι οὕτω (άλλήλοις ἀμφισβητοῦντες περὶ τῶν βιβλίων τοῦ Ὠιρβήργου) γράφετε πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ διαλεγόμενοι φιλολογικῶς ἀλλὰ οὔκετι βούλομαι ἀναγνῶναι τοῦτον τὸν ἀγῶνα τὸν εὐρύπρωκτον.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:27:55 2022 No.20543451

>>20543365
Come back then, I will be unironically thankful if you can prove your method is better than the ones you argue against, since I'm always searching more efficient ways to do stuff. But, right now, I do believe your learning method is not good because you couldn't prove that it's actually good.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:28:15 2022 No.20543453

>>20543325
That's fantastic, but it has nothing to do with what I said. It's the fact that you morons debate whether comprehensible input takes precedent over translating and grammar-cramming or not. Such a debate shouldn't be lead amongst a group of people who's pursuits are so estranged from the methods of those learning modern languages.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:28:40 2022 No.20543456 >>20543451 You could look at Luke Ranieri, he seems pretty capable in Latin and it's mainly how he learned to my understanding.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:38:17 2022 No.20543476 >>20543288 μήποτε ἔσει γυνή

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:39:46 2022 No.20543479

>>20543456
He literally prescribes to learn by heart all the morphology by writing it down hundreds of times, and studying all the basic grammar before starting with lipsi
>https://luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/products/latin-by-the-ranieri-dowling-method-latin-summary-of-forms-of-nouns-verbs-adjectives-pronouns-audio-grammar-tables
>Here are the stages I recommend:

>1) Understand the general idea of the grammatical cases and tenses of Latin. (This is the same as the standard Dowling Method.)

>2) Memorize all the regular and most important irregular grammatical paradigms of inflected nouns, adjectives, and verbs in the following manner: [...]

>3) Read the excellent Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana, but while reading, listen to each chapter with the audio recordings I made at this playlist on YouTube [...]

>William Dowling’s method is as simple as it is effective:

>Compared to other Latin language pedagogical techniques explored in the 21st century, which predominantly (and, I would like to affirm, correctly emphasize the need to treat the teaching of Latin like any other modern language), Stage 2 of the Dowling Method seems to be the most out-of-step with those more modern practices.

>So why would I advocate a method that requires the memorization of grammatical paradigms? Because it worked

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:41:55 2022 No.20543484 >>20543476 ἤδη εἰμί :)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:45:13 2022 No.20543487 >>20543456 Does your lack of understanding of what evidence is have something to do with the fact that your entire tranny ideology revolves around denying reality? Just curious.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:45:52 2022 No.20543488 >>20543479 Wasn't he also already fluent in Italian when he started on Latin? His advice might be less relevant to anyone who isn't already fluent in a Romance language.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:48:28 2022 No.20543495

>>20543487
Oh, I'm painfully aware of the reality that my body is not and probably never will be identical to a cis woman's. Unfortunately, gender dysphoria doesn't seem to go away regardless of what one knows or believes, and I'd rather transition and be somewhat happy than live as a man and be miserable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 08:57:01 2022 No.20543514 >>20543426 In an earlier version of the textbook it was: >Omnium urbis viarum ilia fuit brevissima. Bit muddled with the cases but how is this for a translation of >>20543426 ? >Hoc omnium viarum per finis gallorum facillima est

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:15:22 2022 No.20543560 >>20543488 If something, it would be even more relevant. A lot of Italian grammar is still very similar to Latin (usage of the finite verbal tenses, subjunctive, Italians pronouns still maintain —partially— the case system etc.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:19:38 2022 No.20543568 >>20543560 He means bald boy had a head start over most people he's selling audio courses to.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:23:35 2022 No.20543582

>>20543479
The dowling method is fucking great if you have a lot of free time, by drilling conjugations and inflictions you are able to tell gramatical cases, number, gender, etc,. And all relevant information like if it were second nature even if you don't know the word, which is the main problem of the method that you can easily overcome by using Diederich's basic vocabulary. It may be the fastest and most effective way to learn the language.

>>20543488
Not really, his advice is geared towards English speakers, even then, I speak a romance language and it helps you, but not as much as you would expect, the connection between vocabulary is often really cryptic and very confusing, like false friends in modern languages, italian does give you an edge though but not significant enough that you could understand Caesar right off the bat. Now, i haven't studied Portuguese or Italian but conjugation-wise i think (based on conjugation charts that i have compared between romance languages) only Spanish gives you an edge, since Spanish's verbal system is the only one that is almost as complex as the Latin one.

Cases-wise no romance language outside of Romanian will help you, so tough luck.

Pronunciation-wise it would be the most helpful, especially if you DON'T speak french, but if you know the IPA latin's pronunciation is a piece of cake, or even Japanese.

So no, not really.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:35:10 2022 No.20543599

>>20543479
Yeah this
I think you're exaggerating the level of 'study' that 'understanding the general idea' means though
Check out the original page for the Dowling Method
https://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm
>>20543568
Which audio courses is he selling? He tells you to buy LLPSI and that he has audio recordings for all Familia Romana chapters available freely
>>20543582
Do you think there's any risk of fucking yourself over later where you've relied on memorising tables so much you can't just instantly recognise it but have to think about it's position on the table?
I'm considering doing the Dowling Method but I'm not sure and I guess I want some certainties before I commit to writing each paradigm 200 times
Also could anki be any good?
>>20543488
Yeah IIRC he had learnt French, Japanese and Italian
I think French was his first language but I could be wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:40:27 2022 No.20543608 >>20542622 It or There was. >>20542645 Notice how Esperanto troon shows up and thread goes to shit again

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 09:47:29 2022 No.20543622 File: 228 KB, 720x1520, Screenshot_20220618-184449.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20542622 see the middle of this for that exact quote. Lewis and Short app is free btw

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:10:28 2022 No.20543678 >>20542003 https://youtu.be/1B91RUv2lI8

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:23:08 2022 No.20543708 >>20543599 >I think you're exaggerating the level of 'study' that 'understanding the general idea' means though Not really, I'm just saying that this man's method it's not what the other anon attributed to him >>20543456

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:25:44 2022 No.20543717

>>20543599
>Do you think there's any risk of fucking yourself over later where you've relied on memorising tables so much you can't just instantly recognise it but have to think about it's position on the table?
No. You learn then, then practice by reading, and you will be able to start recognizing immediately in no time.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:32:56 2022 No.20543732

>>20543717
Yeah ok, I'm going to start doing it tonight thanks a lot anon
Please spoonfeed me this, I'm going to read the dowling method page and then look at the wheelock book I have but I'm wondering if Wheelock has everything I need in the back?
Also how do you know when you've written it enough? Did you ever find your memory was missing a bit?

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:43:33 2022 No.20543756

>>20543599
>Do you think there's any risk of fucking yourself over later where you've relied on memorising tables so much you can't just instantly recognise it but have to think about it's position on the table?
That doesn't really happen because you think about their function first rather than their "position on table", it is more intuitive than it looks.

For example, amō

If i saw amō on the wild i wouldn't be like "oh, this is amō, that is hmmm in the first part of the table so it's like indicative, first person and like active so that means because it's indicative its showing something that factually happens, and first person because..." it would be more like "it ends with an ō so that means i love because the other conjugations do not en just with an ō" if i think about it at all, as I said before their function is intuitive, through a discard process, if you know a conjugation you know the other ones are not conjugated that way therefore its use.

Nouns are more nuanced and less useful for reading, because they have a tendency to be repeated and to be sorted out only by context, but then again, if you know how this works you can decline nouns out of the top of your head with ease and be able to sort out nouns contextually faster since you don't have to worry about other possibilities or using a table.

>Also could anki be any good?
Yes. https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/174464096
Those are the most common words in latin, really useful vocabulary-wise.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 10:53:20 2022 No.20543779 >>20543756 Ah great, I'll just try then and see how it goes Also sorry, by anki I mean making an anki deck to help memorise the tables not vocab in general

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:02:20 2022 No.20543800 >>20543779 http://www.jonathanaquino.com/latin/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:26:45 2022 No.20543846 atrōs necate

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:28:27 2022 No.20543849

So if I'm correct basically from 452 to 455 I'm going to memorise 5 verbs being conjugated in every possible way
These 5 verbs serve as paradigms of nearly every single verb in Latin and so if I know how to conjugate 'moneō ' in the indicative passive present I'll be able to identify any verb in the same category as 'moneō' and see that yes this verb is in the indicative passive present conjugation?
And then I just have to memorise the conjugation of the irregular verbs?
I'm confused because I feel like there's a lot fewer irregular verbs than I expected
>>20543800
Cool
I've memorised singular and plural porta now, tested well on that although idk about the long vowel symbol

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:59:37 2022 No.20543903 >>20543277 King

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 12:41:56 2022 No.20544003 >>20543846 Sic necaveris tē, nigerrimus aethiops.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 13:00:08 2022 No.20544042

>>20542435
>There is no such thing as a "grammar translation method". Invented term by YouTubers. You don't have to translate a single sentence in Wheelock if you don't want to
>OPTIONAL translation exercises that can be completely ignored
not him but that's inane. the entire structure of wheelock is learn grammar - memorize vocab - translate sentences, over and over again for 40 chapters. the translation is not "optional" at all. it's essential, the point of the book. from the foreword:

>Why, then, exercise ourselves in the actual translation of Latin? “Inexorably accurate translation from Latin provides a training in observation, analysis, judgment, evaluation, and a sense of linguistic form, clarity, and beauty which is excellent training in the shaping of one’s own English expression,” asserted Frederic Wheelock. There is a discipline and an accuracy learned in the translation process which is transferable to any thinking and reasoning process, such as that employed by mathematicians.

in other words, wheelock's explicit objective is to teach you translation, as a way of "sharpening your mind" - and if you also end up able to read latin, that's only a happy side effect. getting you to translate is THE GOAL OF THE BOOK. obviously you could choose not to do it, just as you could choose to only do every third chapter or something, but at that point you're obviously not following the intended teaching methodology and you're not in fact doing "wheelock's latin" at all, because wheelock's latin is a translation course. if you're telling me people itt don't believe in translation then it follows that they don't believe in wheelock - and they're only waving the book around as a decoy while privately doing something else. why would they do that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 13:49:21 2022 No.20544177 This thread is a pile of shit. Thanks for ruining the vibe dumb tranny

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 13:55:17 2022 No.20544197 >>20544177 It takes two to tango. I don't understand why people don't insist on using Latin, like OP says. The argument would still be a waste of time, but at least everyone gets some practice this way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:11:59 2022 No.20544250 the argument isn't limited to latin though?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:24:53 2022 No.20544289 >>20544197 Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι ὅτι τά Λατινικά reddit ἐστίν

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:24:58 2022 No.20544290 >>20544197 What I don't get is why this thread has people mostly posting in Latin. Is there no one learning any other classical language?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:35:25 2022 No.20544327 >>20544290 Posting is only fun if people can read and respond to it. Other languages probably lack the critical mass of learners to get a conversation going.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:42:22 2022 No.20544353 >>20542511 >だって数回も多言語で書き込んだことありますわ I'm not 100% sure on this but I was under the impression 書き込む was more for real-life message posting while 投稿(する) was for posting online. Do they actually use 書き込む on e.g. 5ch and 2chan?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:42:54 2022 No.20544359 I wish the European Union could be subverted in a right wing coup so that Latin could be prescribed along with English to be the languages of international communication how cool would that be bros

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:44:30 2022 No.20544366 >>20544177 Certē est. Transvestito dīlātā.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:46:26 2022 No.20544372 >>20544289 How much time do i have to study Greek to be able to say that?

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:50:47 2022 No.20544380
File: 47 KB, 600x600, richard-wagner-600x600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20542003
>I find R. reading Oedipus in the evening, after his work, comparing the translation with the text. “It is like a Persian carpet,” he says, “a torrent of beauty—now vanished forever: we are barbarians.” We then come to the Oresteia, the scene of Cassandra with the chorus, and R. declares it to be the most perfect thing mortal art has ever produced.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:51:31 2022 No.20544383 >>20544353 https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q13200480248 First answer. A simple google search also has both being used.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:54:32 2022 No.20544393

>>20544359
Some decades ago, people tried to push Esperanto as the universal language and the one used by UN. France denied that because at the time French was the universal language. A second time they tried again and France again was against it. When English started being the universal language, France finally sided with those pushing for Esperanto as the main language.
Do not expect Latin coming back because any of those countries will prefer they own language or Esperanto if anything.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:11:05 2022 No.20544447 >>20544359 >along with English niger

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:12:06 2022 No.20544449 >>20544290 I'm too stupid to learn Greek

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:13:02 2022 No.20544452 >>20544372 about five minutes, so about as much time as the one you are replying to spent

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:17:52 2022 No.20544467 >>20544393 Using Esperanto is retarded. What's the point of using an artificial language when any natural language can be used as lingua franca and in addition it gives you access to a lot of literature and media? t. ESL

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:21:04 2022 No.20544477 >>20544467 Because you're showing a preference for one language over all the others in a world that's supposed to be full of equality and equity. Esperanto is proposed precisely because it's a constructed language.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:22:59 2022 No.20544488 File: 861 KB, 600x900, 1655504508271.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] the section in Smyth's grammar on Greek verb morphology rules is 120 pages long, which is longer than the section on the syntax of compound sentences

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:24:14 2022 No.20544493 >>20544477 Argument which is countered by the fact Esperanto is eurocentric.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:24:39 2022 No.20544496 File: 139 KB, 1024x660, 1653732147408.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20544290 βουλοίμην ἄν ἔγωγε καὶ ἀττικιστὶ λαλεῖν ὡς οἱ ἐνθάδε Ῥωμανίζοντες ἀλλ'οὔτε ἄν εἰδείην περὶ οὗ διαλέγεσθαι οὔτε οἷός εἰμὶ καλῶς ἀττικίζειν

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:24:51 2022 No.20544499 >>20544488 Oh don't be such a baby. At a rate of 17.14285714285 pages a day you can finish it in 7 days.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:34:48 2022 No.20544536 >>20544477 >equality and equity lmao and also Esperanto is not neutral since it's based on a precise group of languages.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 16:05:34 2022 No.20544655 >>20544496 are you the same guy who greekposts here every now and then? if so god bless you and don't stop even if you get no (You)'s

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 16:46:00 2022 No.20544832 >>20544655 χάριν σοι, friend

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:11:15 2022 No.20544942 >>20544832 Not him, but do you have any tips for absolute beginners?

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:19:26 2022 No.20544981

>>20543133
"Factually" as in you were born with a peen and a Y chromosome but at some point decided to LARP as a woman, and enough people are forced by institutional power to "affirm" your delusions that you've started to think people actually believe it (but the vast majority of those you interact with do not).

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:21:18 2022 No.20544986 New Stratakis just dropped https://youtu.be/4UEg3qIqhk4

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:22:20 2022 No.20544990

>>20544477
>for the sake of EQUALITY we should all use a language that isn't a primary language for ANYBODY
hahaha holy fuck. what would you do if esperanto actually caught on and became a first language for some people? wouldn't it then be inequitable for people who didn't learn esperanto? Isn't it inequitable to expect stupid people to just pick up a second language for the sake of equity? This is all the contradictions and crippling inefficiencies of radical leftism in a nutshell.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:26:43 2022 No.20545008

>>20544942
I'm by no means close to fluency but I honesty loved Athenaze(Italian version). I complemented it with some online resources* and now I'm reading Morice's Attic Stories to boost up my vocabulary before starting with some real Greek works. n.b I already knew Latin.

*
https://lsj.gr/wiki/Main_Page (quintessential online dictionary)
http://atticgreek.org/ (I liked their pronunciation guide, especially how they explain the pitch accent)
http://lexica.linguax.com/nlm.php (quite useful imho if you know Latin already)

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:33:08 2022 No.20545029

>>20544042
>not him but that's inane. the entire structure of wheelock is learn grammar - memorize vocab - translate sentences, over and over again for 40 chapters. the translation is not "optional" at all. it's essential, the point of the book. from the foreword:
That's a crock of shit, I went through the book without translating anything. You read the sentences not translate them unless like I said you are at school and a teacher assigns a translation as homework. I just did a chapter and all I did was read the sentences and paragraph.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:34:21 2022 No.20545031

>>20543599
>Do you think there's any risk of fucking yourself over later where you've relied on memorising tables so much you can't just instantly recognise it but have to think about it's position on the table?
I did the most autistic possible paradigm drilling for my entire first year of Latin and Greek, I wanted to turn myself into a machine that could instantly recognize any form so I didn't have to deal with morphological ambiguities in sentences

I have literally never thought of "the table" once since those days, except if I encounter a really ambiguous or rare form and I blank out for some reason. All the "translation method" retards DO NOT know Latin, they never got past the textbook, it's all chatter about speculative theories, by people who have never made it past the initial stages.

Languages are simply too complex and your brain is simply too geared to use them, for them to be schematic. Even math, which is a highly symbol mediated and highly formal "language," is mostly instinct driven after the initial phases. You learn the formalizations first and then you simply can't help but absorb them, because actually using them requires focusing your attention elsewhere. People who do calculus at high levels just "see" the truth of calculus and its application to whatever manifold they are bringing under it. The symbols were just ways of getting them to that instinct level, and expressing themselves to others after the fact.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:37:05 2022 No.20545038 >>20543599 >Which audio courses is he selling? He tells you to buy LLPSI and that he has audio recordings for all Familia Romana chapters available freely He sells audiobooks on his site and also has a patreon with more.It's a racket.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 18:32:33 2022 No.20545232 >>20544986 ancient greek sounds so cool

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 18:34:39 2022 No.20545240 >>20544986 It's insane to me that some people willingly adapt "The Ranieri-Lucian Prononciation Metohd" when this channel exists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 18:49:02 2022 No.20545293 >>20545240 Ranieri says that Stratakis is the best source for attic pronunciation, but that he wanted to settle on a version of Koine that will satisfy both Modern Greeks and those defending Reconstructions

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 19:03:39 2022 No.20545332

>>20545029
you could also go to the gym and not exercise, but that doesn't change the intended purpose of a gym. wheelock's latin was designed according to the "traditional" idea of learning latin by translation. obviously you can use your book however you want, but the claim that "grammar translation" is some sort of strawman that nobody really believes in is a bald-faced lie. frederic wheelock believed in translation as a teaching methodology and would certainly tell you you were using his book wrong.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:26:09 2022 No.20545637

Chapter 8, C questions attempt 2
>Quid Albinus vendit?
Albinus qui tabernarius ornamenta vendit.
>A quo Aemilia ornamenta accipit?
Ab Julio ea accipitur ornamenta.
>Ambulatne Medus cum domino suo?
Medus cum Lydia ambulat, non apud Julium.
>Ubi Medus et Lydia consistunt?
Medus et Lydia consistant ante tabernam.
>Cur Medus margaritas non emit?
Medus illas non emit quia sacci suo(?) vacuus est.
>Cur Lydia nullum anulum habet?
ea nullum anulum habet quia ea nulla pecunia habet.
>Estne vacuus sacculus Medi?
In principio Medo sacci sui vacuus erat, post (...acc) ... Sacculus Medi plenus, sed igitur ... anulum emit ... vacuus est
>Quot sestertiis constat anulus gemmatus?
Anulus gemmatus quem tabernarium constat est centum sesterii.
>Ad quem digitum anulus convenit?
Anulus in digito medio non convenit sed in digito quarto enim convenit.

I apologise these questions are unfinished and overall low effort. It was another hot day today and I put off latin study all day and now I have run out of time and have tried to squeeze in all I could with what little time remains.

But my main reason for posting this is I want to ask what se means (with macron on e)
>Medus se ad Lydiam vertit
I can't figure it out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:28:48 2022 No.20545644 >>20545637 marcus turns (himself) towards lydia

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:31:24 2022 No.20545656 >>20545644 I couldn't find se under suus, is it a word on its own or does it come under another word?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:33:25 2022 No.20545663 >>20545656 sui

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:37:44 2022 No.20545678

>>20544467
>>20544477
>world that's supposed to be full of equality and equity
That is not it. Esperanto was used because it was easier to learn so any other country would be motivated to teach their citizens their own language and Esperanto. Making Esperanto the lingua franca was done so no country would feel like they had been forced to allow another countries' culture to be part of theirs. As an example of this is Denmark during the 19th century, people were forced to learn Germany and French alongside their own language(some would also learn Hebrew, Ancient Greek and Latin like Kierkegaard) because of their involvement in Napoleonic Wars(which resulted with England bombing Denmark in what is called now Second Battle of Copenhagen).

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:46:49 2022 No.20545704

>>20545637
>sui sibi se se
>genitive dative accusative ablative
>sui sibi se se
Good to remember this since it's catchy (sui sibi se se)

Se is just the accusative of the reflexive pronoun. Latin verbs sometimes use reflexive constructions in ways that don't translate 1-to-1 to idiomatic English. We'd just say Medus turned to Lydiam. But to the Romans one didn't turn, one turned oneself.

Romance languages like French do it even more. Lots of use of the reflexive pronoun to convey either a passive or even a middle voice meaning. You can sort of translate some of these into logical (if clunky) English, but some of them plain just don't make sense from an English speaker's perspective.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 20:47:51 2022 No.20545707 >>20545704 >to Lydia*

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 21:45:28 2022 No.20545865

>>20545678
I think most of us have heard the story of how L. Zamenhof created Esperanto because he wanted to promote world peace and communication in a language not tied to any one culture, but the truth is that it has the same problems as other artificial auxiliary languages like Volapük, which is that it is very heavily based upon Romance languages' vocabulary, Slavic languages' phonetic and writing system (especially after that of Czech), and grammar with a mixture of characteristics from Romance, Germanic, and Slavic languages, which is fine for people who speak any of those other languages, but can be heavily counterintuitive for people who speak languages like Chinese that have no inflections whatsoever and make no use of consonant clusters.
Before Esperanto came along, other languages had served the same function of being an auxiliary language, like Latin, which was used to draft the 1689 Treaty of Nerchinsk between the Tsardom of Rus' and Qing dynasty China. Esperanto did not become widely used, not because there was no need for nations and people from different countries to communicate in the same language, but rather because there was no need to learn a language that nobody else has ever spoken as their native instead of one which already has lots of native speakers and plenty of materials to learn it with for the sake of diplomacy and business.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 22:29:22 2022 No.20546002 >>20545865 Yes, I do agree with that. I'm not defending Esperanto, btw.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 23:50:52 2022 No.20546231

>>20545332
Reading the sentences for comprehension is not using the book wrong. You want people to use it in a way that is easy to criticize. It is a straw man. The gym analogy is retarded. I learn just fine without translating in my head. You just read it same as you would read anything in Latin.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:06:00 2022 No.20546298

Didn't Wheelock literally have a quote in one of his books where he said that he thought the grammar translation method was the best method to learn Latin?
Also why is everyone in this thread so confused by the existence of the grammar translation method?
The grammar translation method is when you break up a sentence into words, you're meant to understand what those words mean then you're meant to look at the form of each of those words to understand it's function in the sentence then you have to understand how each of those words are connected to each other grammatically and thus construct the meaning of the sentence.
According to the proponents of the grammar translation method this is what you need to do and then after years of reading Latin this way eventually you stop having to do it and can just read Latin like you would English.
The reason why I believe that people read Latin like this is and why I don't think it's a strawman is because many people on the internet state that it's how they read Latin, from the proponents of the method to the detractors of the method.
I have friends who studied Latin at university who read Latin this way.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:29:16 2022 No.20546402 >>20546298 >Didn't Wheelock literally have a quote Post it. Make me look like an idiot. I'm so dumb. Please Mr. Gigachad, ruin my day.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:33:22 2022 No.20546416 >>20546298 >>20546402 i guess you're referring to >>20544042

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:36:17 2022 No.20546432
File: 49 KB, 268x400, 9781631063268.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm not sure if this a good thread to ask this but has anyone read this? Apparently it is partially written in Old English which makes it difficult to understand but I don't know to which extent.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:40:28 2022 No.20546456
File: 46 KB, 866x207, 1637082525014.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20546416
Fuck me you're right, that's humiliating as fuck.
I've been reading the textkit forum recently and I must have conflated it with that, I was reading this general at the same time I was reading the forum.
If you search up things like input or Stephen Krashen or LLPSI or grammar translation on that forum you will find many passionate arguments over it like pic related.
https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?t=62680
>>20546432
I thought it was written in fairly easily understandable Middle English?
Just read a modernisation of the text if you want to read it anon and can't be bothered dealing with the language.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:52:51 2022 No.20546526

>>20546231
>It is a straw man.
i posted an unambiguous quote from the fucking author of the book telling you what the book is for. how is it a strawman to directly quote a person? you're just being obtuse.

this thread really is a special ed latin class. first i learn about the dowling-whatever method where you use llpsi but in a completely different way than what orberg intended, and now it turns out that the wheelock people actually think wheelock was retarded and his instructions for his own book should be ignored. is there anyone here who's actually picked a book and used it as instructed instead of trying to do everything ass-backwards?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 00:58:46 2022 No.20546559 >>20543678 this shit slaps

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:02:21 2022 No.20546572

>>20543599
>Do you think there's any risk of fucking yourself over later where you've relied on memorising tables so much you can't just instantly recognise it but have to think about it's position on the table?
none at all. idk just figure out what works best for you. drilling tables is going to be essential to some degree

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:07:40 2022 No.20546601

as someone who for Greek chose the LLPSI-style route(Athenaze), when I started with Latin I did use Wheelock as main reference book, I didn't even know in fact something like LLPSI existed, I learned "grammatically" I guess
and I did do my translations, but as of now, that doesn't mean I keep translating every single bit of Latin I encounter(unless it's some particularly sibylline author whose I never encountered before), in fact I can often simply "read" Latin without thinking grammatically, and I can also understand those native-like Latin speakers you find on youtube like from accademia vivarium novum, so I don't really see much contradiction, "translating" will inevitably also train your brain to understand at some point, no need to be so autistic about it

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:10:42 2022 No.20546618
File: 169 KB, 1118x944, img_20180818_234507472175164.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20542003
Any advice for practicing sight reading with Latin? I used to fill out this huge table for every word when translating but a friend rightly told me to fuck off with this and to try and work it out more intuitively. Should I just drill endings so I know what to look for? I've been thinking if I just drilled all Nom, Gen, and Acc by themselves rather than the whole tables to which they belong i'd be much better at sight reading. This would be better than filling in all the declension tables im thinking:
Nom: a, ae, us, um, i, a, etc etc

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:36:15 2022 No.20546709
File: 673 KB, 1000x750, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>durr you should learn macrons
>open book in latin
>no macrons
i've even seen people say that you dont know the latin word if you cant spell it with macrons.do these retards think that illiterate native speakers of latin didnt know their language because they couldnt spell words with macrons?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:47:10 2022 No.20546744

There is no perfect way of learning a language. Some people are scared of failure for "doing the wrong method" because it means thet wasted their time. I truly belive that if you study some language consistently every day, even for 30 minutes, you will learn that language some day (obviously, for 30 minutes a day that some day is not near). I have seen many weebs saying they have been learning Japanese for years and can't even read manga, but then you learn that "for years" means the guy studied 5 hours per day for a week, then it went down for 2 hours, then every other day, then once a week (usually on weekend because they can put 10 hours of study that day), then it is so rare they are mostly shitposting on /a/ or /jp/ about learning Japanese instead of studying Japanese. This cycle repeats whenever they decide again they want to learn Japanese and that is why they claim studying Japanese for years and not being able to read anything yet. Consistency is more important than anything. Try to not miss a day and for some reason you missed a day, don't let that bother you and goes back to consistency the next day. Just never let the missed days become a consistency, for that will make even the most perfect method, if there is any, not work at all.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:50:32 2022 No.20546756

>>20546744
This is true. Basically anything works, but some methods take more time, others less. But as long as you stick with it consistently for the rest of your life, you will make progress. And it's probably a bette idea to stick with one method instead of constantly changing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 01:55:56 2022 No.20546783 >>20546526 >i posted an unambiguous quote You did not post a quote.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:01:02 2022 No.20546809

>>20546618
Actually, I'm certain this will work. I think I'm going to spend different days drilling different cases and then read through Virgil in the Latin and spot all the cases of that day, sticking with a single book or so of say Eclogues. What say you bros ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:01:25 2022 No.20546810 >>20546783 Well what did he post if not a quote?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:14:36 2022 No.20546872 >>20546810 Where is the quote?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:17:45 2022 No.20546884 >>20546783 Who are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:22:29 2022 No.20546916 File: 142 KB, 510x491, 1640799528981.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20546872 >>20544042 Here

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:27:52 2022 No.20546949

>>20546916
Says translation helps will analytical skills that transfer into other aspects of like like critical thinking and mathematics. He doesn't say translating in your head while you read will lead you to fluency better than any other method - which is what you accused him of saying.

This is the problem with this conversation and every conversation about Latin pedagogy. People with different goals will use different methods. This was a time when you had to justify keeping Latin in your schools by bragging about how it would help your SAT scores or look good on a college application. So authors in the preface to their textbooks would laud these kinds of things. Again, he never says "translating is a great way to get fluent in Latin", more like "translating builds great analytical skills that will be useful for the rest of your life". You can take that with a grain of salt, fact of the matter is, it's not what you all have been accusing him of saying.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:31:47 2022 No.20546961 File: 74 KB, 496x299, Screenshot_20220619-032821.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >not becoming fluent in ancient greek in two weeks Why do you all even try. Pathetic.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:32:16 2022 No.20546966

>J’entends et je veux que tu apprennes parfaitement les langues: premièrement le grec, comme le veut Quintilien; deuxièmement le latin; puis l’hébreu pour les saintes Lettres, le chaldéen et l’arabe pour la même raison; et que tu formes ton style sur celui de Platon pour le grec, sur celui de Cicéron pour le latin. Qu’il n’y ait d’étude scientifique que tu ne gardes présente en ta mémoire et pour cela tu t’aideras de l’Encyclopédie universelle des auteurs qui s’en sont occupés.
Kek. Is this good advice from Rabelais?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:42:02 2022 No.20547023 >>20546966 I don't know I can't read that anon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:46:21 2022 No.20547038 >>20547023 >cant read french not /lit/

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 02:58:21 2022 No.20547086 >>20546966 >Qu’il n’y ait d’étude why does such a heavily inflected language also spam pronouns and particles so hard

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:00:31 2022 No.20547090 >>20547086 Stuck in a transitional phase. That's also why the spelling hasn't been updated for the pronunciation yet (any probably never will because 'muh tradition').

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:05:21 2022 No.20547105
File: 84 KB, 515x315, 1631930008909.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20546949
Well it's hard to say when the editors began to include that Wheelock quote seeing as it's had 7 editions since it was first published in 1956
From the introduction written by Wheelock
>These glosses are generally less complete than the regular vocabulary entries and are even more abbreviated in the later chapters than in the earlier ones, but they should provide sufficient information for translating the text at hand
From the preface of the editors
>This revised edition of Wheelock:, Latin very likely contains more material for translation than can actually be covered in the two or three days typically allotted to a chapter in a semester course or the week or so allotted in high school
>while reserving the others (or some of the others, carefully selected in advance) for in-class sight translation
Pic related is what it says you're supposed to do with the textbook in chapter 1
So it's clear to me that translating Latin is the core of what Wheelock thought was necessary to learn Latin
Interestingly it does say that you should read the texts and 'try to comprehend them' and then you should memorise the paradigms and vocab, practice conjugating verbs and finally try to translate the texts
I'm not sure what the value of reading Latin sentences is when you don't know the vocab but perhaps he thought intuition was important

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:05:50 2022 No.20547106 >>20542003 I'm up to the 3rd chapter of Familia Romana after a couple of days of re-reading each chapter a few times and I don't understand noun endings but I can still comprehend what I'm reading. Am I retarded or should I just not worry?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:08:17 2022 No.20547110 >>20547106 Are you doing the pensa in the book and the separate 'Exercitia Latina' book?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:08:36 2022 No.20547112

>>20547106
Don't not worry. What you need is the Dowling method: write out every regular noun, adjective, and verb ending at least 100 times and then restart Lingua Latina in 6-7 months once you've completed this phase.
http://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:09:53 2022 No.20547116

>>20547105
>in a semester course or the week or so allotted in high school
You just made my point. I said multiple times that the translation exercises are for students so that the teachers have something to grade.
>I'm not sure what the value of reading Latin sentences is when you don't know the vocab but perhaps he thought intuition was important
Anyone who has actually read this book knows that the vocab is before the text.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:12:20 2022 No.20547121 >>20547105 Good job revealing to everyone in this thread that you are looking at the inside of this book for the first time in your entire life after arguing for weeks with randos about it's content and the intent of the author.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:13:24 2022 No.20547124 >>20547105 you're not the brightest man are you

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:24:59 2022 No.20547166

>>20547105
Are you seriously skimming through a PDF of the book for the very first time trying to cherry pick quotes that justify your preexisting opinion? The absolute state of redditors.

Anyways can we go back to talking about languages and not books?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:32:21 2022 No.20547197

>>20547116
>>20547121
I'm a bit confused about who you think I am, I haven't been arguing for weeks here
Presumably by your reference to the 'multiple times' you've mentioned the translations being for teachers to have something to grade, you're referring to previous threads since I can only find one example of that in this thread in which case idk what to say

This isn't the first time I've looked in Wheelock, the first time was yesterday when I was looking at the tables for the tables to use in the Dowling method and my posts ITT were asking about the Dowling method
I saw that quote and decided to search the pdf file to look for it and found it along with other examples

I think saying that it's purely for teachers to have something to grade is a bit cynical anyway
Latin has been taught by getting students to translate Latin text for hundreds of years, if you believe in the Grammar translation method then this is a perfectly natural and not just a cynical way of having something to grade since translating (including sight translation) is a skill that you develop and become more proficient at the more you do it
As the people who believe in this kind of Grammar heavy method will say, eventually you stop translating and read naturally because you've become so proficient at it
>>20547166
I just searched for instances of 'trans' in the pdf

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:34:51 2022 No.20547205 >>20547197 >This isn't the first time I've looked in Wheelock, the first time was yesterday Ignore this Esperanto tranny. Has anyone got good recommendations for a Sanskrit textbook?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:38:20 2022 No.20547222 >>20547205 Well have you've heard of The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit by A. M Ruppel? It's a grammar translation method textbook which seems to be fairly popular for Sanskrit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:39:29 2022 No.20547227 >>20547222 That's what I was thinking about getting. I saw a YouTube interview with the author talking about Sanskrit. She seems nice. Please enough with the translation shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:44:36 2022 No.20547241 >>20547227 The book is full of translation exercises in order to get you to improve your translation skills Unfortunately there aren't translated passages that accompany the book so you need a teacher to verify them for you

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:48:31 2022 No.20547254

>>20547241
>https://www.cambridge-sanskrit.org/other-resources-links/
No you don't. All you have to do is email and ask for the key, same as Wheelock. A 5 second google search can show that.
>Please go to the Contact page to ask for the Key to the Exercises. (The Key is not available for download on this site as there are various teachers using the book in their classes, and they would prefer for their students to not have automatic access to all the answers.)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:50:40 2022 No.20547266 >>20547241 >full of translation >improve your translation >aren't translated We get it tranny, you think all textbooks that aren't promoted by the bald faggot are "LE TRANSLATION METHOD"

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:55:32 2022 No.20547286 anyone had any success learning both Latin and Ancient Greek at the same time? I tried learning Ancient Greek alongside Latin but I would always end up neglecting one in favor for another.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:58:08 2022 No.20547298

>>20547254
Fuck, that's great that they're catering to self studying students
>>20547266
I read a post from a guy talking about the Loeb Classical Library a while back
Basically he said that back when he was a student, classes involved translating Latin texts and then getting a teacher to verify them
Looking back on those classes 20-40 years afterwards he thought that the existence of Loeb editions had basically made those teachers redundant since he could just do the translations himself and verify them based on the translations provided by Loeb
You could do the same with the Clay Sanskrit Library desu

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:59:21 2022 No.20547306 >>20547286 I know people who have but wouldn't recommend it. I think you'd be better off staggering languages a bit, say learning the basics of Latin for 6 months to a year then starting with Greek or vice versa. This applies to all languages

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 04:03:28 2022 No.20547327 >>20547306 I've been doing Latin for about a year. It's just difficult finding motivation to study AG after 2-3 hours of Latin. I guess I just need to fully commit myself to both and persist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 04:14:26 2022 No.20547390 >>20543288 Lol I already exposed this Esperanto troon several weeks back. You aren't a woman my man. Stop claiming to be one on this bald Latin man worshipping forum.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 04:18:21 2022 No.20547410 >>20547327 Study Greek first, then do Latin. Take a small break between. Your experience in Latin will make reading it after Greek refreshing

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:33:30 2022 No.20547653

>>20543582
>conjugation-wise i think (based on conjugation charts that i have compared between romance languages) only Spanish gives you an edge, since Spanish's verbal system is the only one that is almost as complex as the Latin one.
Really? What inflectional categories does Italian lack that Spanish still has?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:36:49 2022 No.20547665 >>20544366 Chirurgiam nolo :)

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:42:02 2022 No.20547681

>>20544493
>>20544536
It draws mostly from European sources for vocabulary but only because that's the source of the words the most people worldwide will recognize. Should they have used words FEWER people would recognize for the sake of seeming less Eurocentric?
>>20544990
There are a handful of native speakers already, but a very small number compared to non-natives and I don't see why that would change if it was more broadly used.
>>20545865
You may find these interesting.
http://claudepiron.free.fr/articlesenanglais/westernlanguage.htm
http://claudepiron.free.fr/articlesenanglais/europeanorasiatic.htm
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233566489_How_European_is_Esperanto_A_typological_study

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:53:31 2022 No.20547709

>>20546744
Perhaps there are some people who can go from "deciphering" to actually reading but I've gotten the impression that for many, even if they later take a natural method course it's hard to break out of the habit of treating it as something to be "deciphered" rather than actually read.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:54:48 2022 No.20547712 >>20547086 Half of the inflection is purely orthographic at this point. It's only about as inflected as English if you're looking at the spoken language.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:56:50 2022 No.20547716 >>20547205 >>20547266 I'm the Esperantist, that person isn't me.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 05:59:31 2022 No.20547725 >>20544981 Considering that strangers usually default to calling me 'she' even when I'm dressed in jeans and flannel I'm gonna say that yes, they do in fact believe I'm female based on my appearance. Unless you think they're somehow reading my mind?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:08:55 2022 No.20547756

>>20547709
Nobody here wants to decipher languages. Those people are mostly homeschooled trad caths who want a "classical education" and just want to learn root words and stumble through the Vulgate with an interlinear. They don't care about reading Horace or Tacitus and will never be able to. The other group that does this are kids whose parents put them in AP Latin to look good on an academic record and boost SAT scores as mentioned earlier.

None of those people are here and nobody in this thread is promoting that. You've been told a trillion times. Instead of referring to people who aren't here, why don't you address what the people who oppose you have been saying to your face right here right now. We don't decipher. You can use a grammar primer and not decipher. You can use a grammar primer and not translate. You can use Orberg and translate every single page. You can use Orberg and decipher every sentence. This is a method of reading, not a textbook. You can use that bad method of reading with any textbook. Luckily for you, nobody here does that or wants to defend it. So maybe you should stop arguing against something that no one is even defending.

Please go study or something instead of dragging this retarded argument out when all you do is misrepresent the other side and regurgitate lazy talking points from a YouTube video you watched from Stephen Krashen or the Bald Guy. This arguement has happened so many times in this thread and you people have never once said "oh wow I thought you guys did it differently" or "I was under the assumption that you guys used the book this way". Whenever you are told "WE DONT DO THAT" you just move the goal post. Like I said, go study.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:11:39 2022 No.20547763 >>20547756 Sure, but some textbooks are more conducive to it than others, and I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that Wheelock is made to be such given the quotes posted here from its author.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:19:48 2022 No.20547782

>>20547763
>Sure, but some textbooks are more conducive to it than others, and I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that Wheelock is made to be such given the quotes posted here from its author.
As said earlier, you never read it. You skimmed through a pdf to cherry pick quotes to confirm what you already believed. This is intellectually dishonest and lazy.

I have no opinion on Athenaze. I have no opinions on it because I've never read it. From what I heard about, it doesn't sound like something I would want to use when I start Greek. I have never once interjected myself in a conversation on this thread or anywhere else on the internet when people are talking about Athenaze. You should do the same. I can only imagine if my ignorant ramblings could discourage someone from using a book that they might actually enjoy when I haven't even read it and don't know what I'm talking about. I can read as many quotes from the author as possible, it doesn't justify me trying to make everyone who uses Athenaze feel miserable nor just it justify me repeatedly patronizing them that they "aren't reaaally learning Greek" or that they are "doing it the wrong way". Nobody likes a smug condescending know it all who reads a pdf and thinks he's a PHD linguist. Please try to be more self aware and for once maybe hit the pause button and think about how what you are doing may actually end up discouraging someone from learning a language when you try to be some kind of messiah figure trying to force people to do it the "right way" and shame people who do it any different.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:21:28 2022 No.20547788 Someone pls mass reply to every single one of those posts to call them both niggers. I can't be bothered to click on every post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:24:26 2022 No.20547796 >>20547782 >As said earlier, you never read it. You skimmed through a pdf to cherry pick quotes to confirm what you already believed. This is intellectually dishonest and lazy. I'm not him. We're two different people.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:26:54 2022 No.20547802

>>20547796
Glad to see that's the only thing you got out of my long ass post.

I don't know if you are just intentionally trying to drag this out for fun or if you have some kind of mental condition, but I don't have time to babysit you. Reread my post if you are serious and want to understand why everyone in this thread wants to drown you in a bathtub. Goodnight, I'm going to read some Latin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:29:13 2022 No.20547808 >>20546618 >Any advice for practicing sight reading with Latin? And people here claim grammar translation is just reading, lol. This guy is so crippled he needs a separate term for what normal humans call "reading".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:39:58 2022 No.20547832 >>20547725 Strangers default to calling you "she" because they're afraid of the social consequences of identifying you as a delusional man.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:43:18 2022 No.20547845 >>20547808 It's funny because it completely invalidates this guy >>20547756 >You can use a grammar primer and not decipher.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:44:56 2022 No.20547851 >>20547845 You fags can't even read Caesar jesus fucking christ just leave the thread this is so gay

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:47:07 2022 No.20547866 >>20547851 >You fags can't even read Caesar It's the first thing I read after LLPSI but I suppose you may claim it doesn't count because I didn't name every case of every word >just leave the thread this is so gay Why don't you fuck off instead?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:49:23 2022 No.20547878 >>20547832 How exactly are they supposed to know how I identify if I haven't told them and I'm dressed in jeans and flannel? It's not like I wear a pronoun pin or anything.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:51:52 2022 No.20547885

>>20547866
these threads are infinitely better when fags aren't shitting them up with MUH INPOOT YOU'RE JUST DECIPHERING YOU WILL NEVER READ LATIN PROPERLY IF YOU DONT USE LELIPSI TO BEGIN WITH
you retards aren't even talking about latin you're just bickering about elementary textbooks

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:52:01 2022 No.20547886

>>20547845
>dozens of threads full of people don't decipher
>silence
>one guy (the first i've ever seen) says he likes to >OMG I WAS RIGHT SEE

>>20547866
You are a fucking knuckle dragging moron who has read absolutely nothing. You are probably stuck on chapter 12 you fucking faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:53:54 2022 No.20547895 File: 480 KB, 290x449, 1654650956052.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:54:01 2022 No.20547896 >>20547885 >>20547886 cope and seethe

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:54:56 2022 No.20547901 >>20547878 Hair, makeup, affect.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:55:57 2022 No.20547904 >>20547896 Wow great.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:56:11 2022 No.20547905

>>20547901
I don't wear makeup, men with long hair are much more common than trans women, and if someone is acting feminine but appears male they'll likely just be presumed to be a faggy guy. (I also don't make any special effort to act feminine beyond what comes naturally, usually.)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:57:14 2022 No.20547912 >>20547904 It's not like your posts had any substance besides name-calling so not sure what you expected in terms of a reply.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:57:45 2022 No.20547913 >>20547905 >mashing X to doubt

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 06:59:11 2022 No.20547923 >>20547913 Hey, I didn't say they do all the time. But a lot of the time, they do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:00:14 2022 No.20547926 >>20547912 the fact remains that these threads are actually useful for getting questions about latin answered when they don't devolve into shit slinging about your favourite elementary textbook

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:02:50 2022 No.20547936 File: 2.92 MB, 960x540, 1629136029495.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Which was the last chapter of lipsi we've read along? 8?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:11:39 2022 No.20547956

>can't speak Latin
>can't speak Spanish
>probably can't speak the other languages he claims to be capable of
>people still falling for the baits of this faggot
He probably isn't even a troon, he just likes to make people lose their time. Don't feed the troll etc etc

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:14:43 2022 No.20547959 >>20546526 Sorry Anon but I could not understand the LLPSI instructions, the book is written wholly in Latin. Now I use a grammar book from 1918 alongside LLPSI and Anki.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:17:17 2022 No.20547963 >>20547956 I literally admitted I'm trans lol

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:22:01 2022 No.20547978 >>20547963 You're retarded, he's accusing you of lying about it to derail and farm (You)s

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:24:00 2022 No.20547984 >>20547978 Why would I lie about that? 4chan is not known for liking trans people.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:26:48 2022 No.20547992 I've just started learning Greek, literally yesterday actually and I'm finding reading and translating much easier than I thought. When does the inevitable mogging happen? When writing?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:57:05 2022 No.20548068 >>20542302 Fondatus

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:58:55 2022 No.20548071 >>20548068 Both the post you cited and the single word you wrote are wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:00:31 2022 No.20548078 >>20548071 Qusi curaverim

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:02:42 2022 No.20548086 >>20548071 Explain why

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:09:12 2022 No.20548111 >>20548086 Latinus (sermo) / latina (lingua) discendus/a est. fundatus

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:12:58 2022 No.20548123 >>20548111 I think they mean to say 'dicendum' i.e. 'it must be said in latin'/'one must speak latin'. Or is that wrong?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:13:26 2022 No.20548127 >>20547992 I agree anon. I thought it was going to be extremely difficult but it turns out to be much easier than I thought.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:14:33 2022 No.20548129 >>20548123 You have to talk in Latin. Those who speak in English, go away

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:15:57 2022 No.20548133 >>20548129 Okay so basically what I thought.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:17:11 2022 No.20548140 >>20548129 Nescio quid dicam.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:18:18 2022 No.20548144 >>20548123 No, it isn't, my bad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:19:56 2022 No.20548157 >>20548127 how far are you into studying it?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:23:17 2022 No.20548169

>>20548157
not too far. I'm using the Greek - An intensive course textbook. I'm following along with this playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq5ea-jR9u2puDaLoRL-nBkpwrkURbLjT

I'm at chapter 3 and honestly the hardest part is acquiring the vocab.
What method are you using to learn Greek?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:25:30 2022 No.20548173

>>20546709
the thing is they could if they wanted to, because they spoke it that way. You need to learn macrons to learn short and long vowels. Once you have internalised the language and which words use long and short vowels you can drop them if you like. Any German can tell you that the u in Buch needs to be long and that it is wrong to pronounce it short. You as a learner of German would have to know that, even though looking at the written word both options are possible. There are some rules but for some words you have to know it, which is also the case for Latin

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:32:11 2022 No.20548195 >>20548173 Si quis pronuntiato ecclesiastico loquitur, "macrons" non necesse ei discendum puto.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:33:15 2022 No.20548200 >>20548195 Still useful for metrical scansion and for determining where the stress goes, no?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:35:38 2022 No.20548208

>>20548200
Yes of course, I was partially joking. What I meant is that you don't need to actually pronounce vowels as longer or shorter if you use Ecclesiastic pronuntiation, and being an Italian I rarely found it difficult to remember where the stress goes (it is mostly similar to Italian, and one tends to remember the exceptions). For metrical scansion it is of course very important

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:45:29 2022 No.20548239

>>20546756
>And it's probably a bette idea to stick with one method instead of constantly changing.
No, it's the opposite. If you are only doing grammar translations without supplementing it with extensive reading, you will never be able to read the language you are learning. Likewise, if you merely stick with inpoot you will never understand the backbone of the language and will have a poor grasp of the grammar.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:46:17 2022 No.20548241 >>20547665 Fēmina mentulā bona est, magister poeta Catullus melior dicāvit quam ego possem: pēdīcābo ego vōs et irrumābō et quoque tuus mammas mōnstrā mī, quaeso ^_^

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:48:53 2022 No.20548249 >>20548241 Jam dixi, proximam vicem quam sic feci in tabula caerulea interdicta sum tres dies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:49:33 2022 No.20548252 >>20548169 I'll have a look at that. I'm using so far a free course on the Open University lol. It's fairly deep for an introductory course: 16 hours worth of stuff to go over and I'm currently on some entry grammar, breathings and whatnot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:50:43 2022 No.20548255 >>20547992 I remember contractions filtering me hard. The second time I got mogged was when I attempted for the first time to read authentic Greek prose (Lysias I).

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:54:53 2022 No.20548270 >>20548249 Persistere artem est baby

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:56:47 2022 No.20548275 >>20548255 How bad did it mog you? Like unable to understand 20% of what you were reading and such?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 08:58:05 2022 No.20548279 >>20548270 Artem? Cur accusative?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:11:07 2022 No.20548320

>>20548275
It's been a while since I read Lysias but if I remember correctly I was having trouble with words having unfamiliar meanings and nouns that needed to be translated as verbs to make sense of the sentences.
> Like unable to understand 20% of what you were reading and such?
At that point I had been studying Greek for about 6 months and was already familiar with about 95% of the vocabulary of the text. However the syntax felt so strange and unnatural to me that despite understanding the words, the message remained completely obscure. For post-beginner texts I would much rather recommend Anabasis and Plato's Ion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:14:21 2022 No.20548331 >>20548279 https://youtu.be/ZlU43KHMBOQ

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:22:10 2022 No.20548361 >>20548331 I'm not seeing where in this it says 'ars' should be accusative here?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:34:04 2022 No.20548404 File: 426 KB, 1920x1080, Screenshot (1200).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] LLPSI Read Along Chapter 9 In which bald man does a good sheep impression

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:34:54 2022 No.20548407

>>20548361
It is quite literally on the first example he gave

To err is human
Errare (subject infinitive) est humanum (accusative)

And the second

To be in pain is an evil
Dolere (subject infinitive) malum (accusative) est

What is said

To persist is art
Persistere (subject infinitive) artem (accusative) est

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:35:08 2022 No.20548408 File: 805 KB, 1920x1080, Screenshot (1201).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20548404 This chapter is all focussed on the first three noun declensions, but mostly on the third declension.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:38:13 2022 No.20548415
File: 700 KB, 1920x1080, Screenshot (1202).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20548408
The only thing worth nothing here I think is to pay close attention to the pictures, you might not notice the pastor sleeping with the sheep under the trees shadow, or the black sheep walking off.

Also note that est "Canis herbam non est" comes from edo, not the est we're already familiar with. It means to eat. It has a macron on the e

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:39:22 2022 No.20548424
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>>20548415
And just like the previous chapter, this one will span two days instead of one, meaning that there will be no chapter posted tomorrow, but there will be one posted the day after tomorrow.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:39:52 2022 No.20548428 >>20548407 That's not accusative, it's neuter. He literally says that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:40:34 2022 No.20548432 >>20548415 worth noting* also with the pictures, one thing that confused me is the poor drawing of grass in the first picture. herba means grass not flowers

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:47:26 2022 No.20548458

>>20548331
I think you got a little confused. The subject of the infinitive needs to be accusative, but the infinitive itself, when being the subject of the principal clause, needs nominative attributes.

In your example:
To err is human
Errare (subject infinitive) est humanum (neuter nominative, since it refers to the subject of the principal clause (i.e. the infinitive clause)).

That I err is human (just to illustrate the grammatical point)
Me (accusative, since it is the subject of the infinitive) errare est humanum (nominative, see above).

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 09:52:28 2022 No.20548476 >>20548428 You're right, I'm sorry, i got it mixed up with https://youtu.be/EGvwKWy0W6I "Art is to persist" is not "to persist is art".

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:12:47 2022 No.20548536

>>20548404
chapter 9 C questions

>Num pastor solus in campo est?
pastor in campo non solus est, sed canis et ovem apud eum.
>Quot oves habet pastor?
Pastor centum oves habet, undecentum oves albos et una nigram.
>A quo canis cibum accipit?
Canis cibum a pastore accipit.
>Suntne montes prope pastorem?
Montes non est prope pastorem sed illi procul ab pastore.
>Ubi sunt valles?
Valles inter montes et montes sunt.
>Quid est collis?
Collis est parvum mons.
>Quo it pastor?
Pastor arborem in colle it.
>Cur pastor umbram petit?
Pastor umbram petit quia sol in caelo lucet and nulla nubes videt et pastor fessus est.
>Quo it ovis nigra?
Ovis nigra rivum it et silvam intrat.
>Quid ovis in terra videt?
Ovis vestigia lupi in terra videt.
>Cur lupus ovem nigram non est?
Lupus ovem nigram non est quia canem et pastorem timet.

These are a bit low effort again I hope it's just the weather and not that I'm burning out already. I have another day atleast to double up my practice so maybe is okay.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:19:33 2022 No.20548553 >>20548404 >this chapter uses the n word why couldn't he use ater instead?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:21:02 2022 No.20548557

>>20548476
You know what, fine, I'll do it- on a separate thread on /b/. That's what I did before, after I got banned the first time. (This should have the nice side effect of at least shutting up the people who think I'm faking being trans for attention.)
>>>/b/880417758

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:23:23 2022 No.20548564 >>20548553 Because those don't mean the same thing. Niger is shining black whereas ater is dull black.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:25:29 2022 No.20548568 >>20548557 Thank you so much, it really made my week.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:29:28 2022 No.20548576 >>20548424 thanks for your service

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:41:47 2022 No.20548620

>>20548536
>>Num pastor solus in campo est?
>pastor in campo non solus est, sed canis et ovem apud eum.
canis et oves
>>Quot oves habet pastor?
>Pastor centum oves habet, undecentum oves albos et una nigram.
albas, unam
>>A quo canis cibum accipit?
>Canis cibum a pastore accipit.
>>Suntne montes prope pastorem?
>Montes non est prope pastorem sed illi procul ab pastore.
sunt
>>Ubi sunt valles?
>Valles inter montes et montes sunt.
>>Quid est collis?
>Collis est parvum mons.
parvus
>>Quo it pastor?
>Pastor arborem in colle it.
>>Cur pastor umbram petit?
>Pastor umbram petit quia sol in caelo lucet and nulla nubes videt et pastor fessus est.
et nullas nubes
>>Quo it ovis nigra?
>Ovis nigra rivum it et silvam intrat.
I think you need a preposition with intro (in silvam intrat), but I'm not sure
>>Quid ovis in terra videt?
>Ovis vestigia lupi in terra videt.
>>Cur lupus ovem nigram non est?
>Lupus ovem nigram non est quia canem et pastorem timet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:44:44 2022 No.20548631 >>20548564 But it may be offensive to a lot of people. And didactic books should be for everyone. And furthermore sheep doesn't shine.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:48:02 2022 No.20548646

>>20546432
>>20546456
> Old English
It's not Old English with capital O, that would be Beowulf, and would need to be approached like a foreign language.
It's not even really Middle English any more, rather Early Modern English.

Penguin has an edition with modernized spelling and glosses the archaic words at the bottom of the page.
If you're ESL and have never read (lower case) old English like Shakespeare, then you might want to prepare yourself with Pyle's Arthur books on archive.org. They're written for children, but he used mildly archaic language like ere, an (in the sense of if), assay. Those words won't be glossed in the Penguin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:56:04 2022 No.20548673 >>20548631 > But it may be offensive to a lot of people. Better to weed out those people early on, who don't understand that words mean different things in different languages.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 10:57:27 2022 No.20548676 >>20548404 >>20548408 Wait, does LLPSI get you to memorise some of these tables anyway?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 11:05:32 2022 No.20548703 >>20548676 You encounter 3rd declension nouns so often in the text, it's almost impossible not to internalize how they work. But if you somehow manage to, the table is there for you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 11:28:44 2022 No.20548762 >>20548631 shut up nigger

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 11:31:00 2022 No.20548771 >>20548673 We're coming for you, chuds, Latin will be reformed. You won't be left anywhere to hide.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 11:40:08 2022 No.20548800

>>20547782
>You skimmed through a pdf to cherry pick quotes to confirm what you already believed. This is intellectually dishonest and lazy.
a strange complaint. why does it matter if he believed it prior to verifying that it was true? he's right either way, wheelock is factually a translation-based course. i don't get why this is so traumatic for you to admit and why you insist on attacking people's character and motivations just to suppress it. oh no, he "might discourage" people from using a book - by accurately quoting its contents??? i think it's better for people to know an author's approach so they can make an informed choice. don't you?

i understand that you decided to ignore the instructions and use the book differently, but to claim that people who use it "normally" don't exist and were "made up by youtubers" - as you did yesterday - is some schizo shit, a bizarre lie that's very easy to disprove. wheelock is a translation-focused book, used for grammar translation in classrooms everywhere. you can do whatever you want with this information, it doesn't stop you from learning latin any way you want, but it's still true and not even controversial anywhere else i've seen latin discussed, other than this weird thread where it elicits vitriolic meltdowns about "trying to be a messiah" (???) and "making you feel miserable." why is seeing quotes from wheelock making you miserable? that's weird.

like, seriously - what motivates you to fill the thread with goofy lies like "grammar translation was invented by youtubers?" what the fuck is wrong with you?

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 12:04:00 2022 No.20548865

>>20548620
>et oves
ah oops of course, plural. I did however get that form correct later on in the questions though.
>albas
hmm albos definitely incorrect lol I want to say I made that mistake via a typo but I probably did it unwittingly by thinkings of the all o's
>sunt
aa I see where it should go, I put est instead by mistake.
>parvus
ah this one I had trouble with, I wasn't sure what a third declension parv- should look like to go with collis, but I later figured out it just needs to be masculine.
>et nullas nubes
oh fuck I wrote 'and' lmao, I'm losing it.
>et silvam intrat
if it had an "it" wouldn't the silv- have to be abl as "silva"?
In silva intrat.
"in intrat" sounds a bit strange but honestly I don't know. I'll re-read the text tomorrow and see what it uses for that bit.

Once again thanks for the critique!

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 12:15:05 2022 No.20548897

>>20548865
(I'm someone else, not the person you're responding to.)
> I wasn't sure what a third declension parv- should look like to go with collis
An adjective either is or isn't third declension, that's not something that depends upon the noun it modifies (but for its gender, it does). I think third declension adjectives are only introduced later on. At any rate, parva/parvus is always 1/2 declension.

>>et silvam intrat
>if it had an "it" wouldn't the silv- have to be abl as "silva"?
>In silva intrat.
One use of "in" is to show where something happens, there you use the ablative. Another use of "in" is to show movement to some place, for that you use the accusative. So it's "in silvam intrat".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 12:15:32 2022 No.20548898 >>20548800 Anon please just read your Latin and forget about this general You are never going to get any satisfying conclusion to arguing here so please, try not to get sucked in

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 12:17:44 2022 No.20548908 Novum fīlum: >>20548905 >>20548905 >>20548905 >>20548905 >>20548905

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 16:38:36 2022 No.20549853 >>20548553 lmao nice bait kidding aside I would really like to bludgeon people who want to censor normal latin words and invent new neuter pronouns for nonbinary folx to death

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 16:59:57 2022 No.20549948

>>20547808
you insufferable faggot Latin word order offers little assistance in poetry. It's worthwhile to have different methods to go over the same text. Theres nothing wrong with priming yourself by drilling tables so long as it's not the only thing you do. Why the fuck is most of this thread about this? You all think about it too much, seriously. Drill the language, study the language, write in the language, then read in the language. That's all there fucking is to it. At the end of the day no one gives a fuck about the most efficient way unless they're horribly insecure about their own abilities. They want to "do more" bc they feel that theyre not doing enough. Just do it and don't think about it too much holy fuck. The biggest mistake in language learning is thinking too much about it, thats it. How many of you are actually proficient? I'm actually curious. Are you avoiding studying while you get in hopeless tangents on this thread which could be about--oh i dont know--the actual fucking texts the language offers? I taught myself Latin in 3 months, a lot of which was drilling. That's the fucking end of it. Please write out my post 100 times before you reply so that i can be certain you understand it. You see they're just a bunch of shapes on your computer screen and if you don't spend time studying the tiny geometry of every letter you'll never be able to comprehend what I'm saying!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 17:17:10 2022 No.20550017 >>20549948 >How many of you are actually proficient? No one here knows any Latin. Specially the troon.

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