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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2052936 [Reply] [Original]

Goddamnit /lit/

Why do people care about fashion?

Can someone recommend me a book which will enlighten me as to the paradox as to why people are so attracted to such a seemingly vacuous and manipulative phenomenon?

It's seductive like totalitarianism, that's what i've learned from Kundera. I'd like a book which shows the other side, as it were.

pic related, it's fashion.

>> No.2052947

lol thtas just because you're fat

>> No.2052960

>>2052947

the polar opposite unfortunately

anyway help me /lit/

credible fashion /lit/

>> No.2052966
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>>2052936
>Not being interested in fashion.
Truman, you're so basic, but I still love ya.

Seriously though, I don't know much about fashion outside of Heroinchic, so I am of no use in this thread.

>> No.2052969

The aesthetics of a fetching or well thought out outfit can be a positive enforcer in one's mood. Look good, feel positive. Just another element to a being. There's nothing really evil about it. Just don't be too excessive, unless you have the wallet to shoot for the stars. It's culture.

>> No.2052972
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Goddamnit /lit/

Why do people care about status?

Can someone recommend me a book which will enlighten me as to the paradox as to why people are so attractive to such a seemingly vacuous and manipulative phenomenon?

It's seductive like totalitarianism, that's what I've learned from Kundera. I'd like a book which shows the other side, as it were.

pic related, it's status.

>> No.2052973

In my experience, everyone has to have that one prominent driving interest that defines them as well as occupies their mind.

For some, this is literature. For others, it's photography, or travel. Still others, it's fashion. Film, music, interior design, chess, cycling.

If you think of things like fashion and photography, these are (for lack of a better expression) "easy-tier" preoccupations. Anyone at all can become an expert in these fields, and they are ready-made for self-definition. It's far harder, for example, to pick up figure skating or mathematics as your overarching interest than fashion is.

>> No.2052976
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>>2052966

I am interested, I just want to know if there is some deeper artistic appeal to it or if it's really as vapid as it seems. A kind of socially acceptable pornography.

Is it just another industry exploiting our primordial, evolutionary desires (like pornography) or is there something culturally redeemable within fashion?

>> No.2052979

>not leveraging your looks and fashion sense to impress and seduce people

Man, I thought you guys were smart.

>> No.2052981
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>>2052973
this would be a cool op post in /fa/.

>> No.2052982
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oh truman

>> No.2052989

>>2052981
Accompanied by the $500,000 starting guy.

>> No.2052991

>>2052989
oh hey i was looking for him in my reactions folder. anyone got him?

>> No.2052995

kundera talks about fashion?

which book?

>> No.2052998
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>>2052976
In a lot of ways fashion is a comment on modern society. It can be argued fashion is the forerunner and the new 'culture' follows. But the real truth is, fashion just picks up on the rising sociatal norms. For example; the heroin-chic campaign in the 90's got slack for influencing developed nations that being an addict was okay. This was not the case, it was merely a comment on how drugs have become mainstream over the years and how in the 80's and early 90's everyone was dabbling in some form of narcotics.

Like literature, fashion merely echos that in which the people who work in the trade see around them.

Tommy Hillfiger for example now promotes mostly 'casual' look models. Calvin Klien the same. why? Because it is a comment on contermporary culture. We are no longer worried as much as we were with our looks. We are less busy, less intent to impressive. Todays society is lazy and fashion shows that with the 'casual' look it is promoting.

Note: Casual means regular people look, not casual as in football hooligan.

>> No.2053000

>>2052995
uuh.... ever heard of the unbearable lightness of being?

>> No.2053003

go to /fa/

>> No.2053002

Because it's good to look good, dig?

>> No.2053013

>>2052998

Ah okay so what you're saying is that fashion is a good ideological litmus test for a given cultural period?

I guess that's nice, but it seems that it follows ephemeral cultural/political trends without ever producing things which provide real reflections onto the human condition.

>> No.2053014

>>2053013

it's true, fashion is always for a time but never for all time.

i think this is why America loves it so much

>> No.2053017
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What you wear expresses something about you whether you intend it to be that way or not. You are engaging in a sort of dialogue with those around you without really saying much of anything verbally. If you dress like shit, that says alot about you. If you treat school/work/life like a fashion runway, that says alot of other things too.

>> No.2053020

>>2053017

KINDA LIKE TATTOOS HUH TRUMAN

>> No.2053024

>>2053020

Huh?

>> No.2053027

I can't stand when the critical Left mingles with the fashion world. I mostly share Truman's opinion in that it's disgustingly self-absorbed, hedonistic, and destructive. Also, it constantly pays lip-service to the "male gaze." I don't even care much for feminism, but it still sounds ridiculous when the most pornographic of fashion photography is called "beautiful", "empowering", "fighting systems of power" and shit like that. I don't know, I obviously have a problem with it on an emotional level, I'm not sure why though.

>> No.2053034

>>2053013
Alone it will never produce any real reflections on the human condition, but coupled with contemporary literature, cinema and other media it all creates a wonderful image and allows for better negotiation of what a certain culture was like.

...I have no idea what I'm talking about, and it shows.

>> No.2053041
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>>2053027

what's wrong with us?

why do we instinctively feel revulsion where others feel empowerment?

>>2053034

No, i understand what you're saying. I just don't think it should be called 'art' by its own right.

>> No.2053062

>>2053041
I'd like to call it strong morals and virtuous modesty. Neither of those things are particularly fashionable nowadays though. I sometimes wonder if I'm intimated by fashion and youth culture and hate it out of spite. Also, the people I've known that are really interested in that stuff are two-faced and vapid.

>> No.2053078

>>2053017
>>2053017

Anyone care to respond to this?

>> No.2053093

>>2053078
Sure. An attempt at rationalizing narcissism, everybody else cares about fashion so so should you, etc. Utter weakness.

>> No.2053099

>>2052936
People don't 'care' about fashion; they're taught to recognize symbols of wealth, taste, modesty, and to judge people based on such. It's disgusting, but everybody does it so everybody can shirk responsibility for continuing the immoral practice.

>> No.2053104

>Is it just another industry exploiting our primordial, evolutionary desires (like pornography) or is there something culturally redeemable within fashion?

I think this is a false dichotomy

I'll tell you what I think about fashion. Basically, it's better to do things than to be things, and fashion is a heuristic identity. Therefore fashion as an identity essentially died when pre-ripped jeans became available for purchase.
Then one aspect, the ornamental aspect, probably superceded all other aspects. There was a time when clothing indicated rank or wealth, now it mainly implies it. I suppose fashion is a language, and some people are laconic, some are extroverted, and some clearly think too carefully about what they want to say, and that's disingenuous.
Now, when it comes to the use or misuse of fashion, I have to invoke Sartre's bad faith. If you keep that in mind, you can dress as gaudy, specific, unspecific or alternative as you like.

>> No.2053105

>>2053062
you might like to read Julia Driver's account of modesty, but I disagree with her and the whole idea that modesty is a virtue

>> No.2053125

>>2053105
What do you see as virtuous, then?

>> No.2053142

>>2053125
you want a comprehensive list?
Things like nonmalevolence, propriety, honesty...these sorts of things. Modesty is a way of either intentionally or uintentionally misrepresenting yourself, and and I don't see that in and of itself as a good thing.
truly though I think the concept of a virtue as some counterpoint to a vice is outdated.

>> No.2053150

Truman, you are more autistic than me, and I'm actually autistic.

>> No.2053160
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>>2053142

but those virtues of courage which you describe are fundamentally anti-thetical towards fashion.

It appeals to our most cowardly and destructive of desires which is to mask the complexities and contradictions of real life in favour of the security of a sanitised, collective consensus.

in this way fashion is inherently totalitarian, I claim.

>> No.2053174

>>2053150

I took an autism test and I scored 17 which is the actually (scarily) exactly average. Autism was something over 30.

>> No.2053176

>>2053160
what virtues of courage do I describe, why are they antithetical towards 'fashion', and what makes you say we have desires to mask the complexities of real life and why do you say these desires are cowardly?

>> No.2053184

i wish people would stop hopping onto fashion trends and kept it simple and elegant. there's nothing better than wearing classic, tailored clothes and drinking highballs with some the boys from the athletic club.

>> No.2053217
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>>2053176

>what virtues of courage do I describe
honesty, in so far as intellectual integrity is concerned

>why are they antithetical
Because fashion preaches security in conformity rather than exposing the reality of yourself honestly

>what makes you say we have desires to mask the complexities of real life
how else would you explain the success of tasteless 'kitsch' art, or positive attitudes to collectivist totalitarianism in general?

>why do you say these desires are cowardly?
because the infringe upon individuality, doubt, irony etc.

>> No.2053222

>>2053217
Hmmm, sounds like you know nothing of fashion. It's as up it's own ass as any art. Preaching security in conformity? Please.

>> No.2053274

>>2053217
>honesty, in so far as intellectual integrity is concerned
courage isn't a necessary condition of honesty
In fact, honesty done for the sake of courage is disingenuous

>Because fashion preaches security in conformity rather than exposing the reality of yourself honestly
what makes you say that? Fashion isn't a creedo, unless you are talking specifically about trends rather than what I mean by fashion, which is the way people choose to dress

>how else would you explain the success of tasteless 'kitsch' art
it was a concise expressionism of modernity, and people resosponded to that

>positive attitudes to collectivist totalitarianism in general?
you need to be more specific about the sentiments you mean and the relevance here

>because the infringe upon individuality, doubt, irony etc.
you are confounding individuality with complexity
In truth, most of our emotions are universal, and the salience of ourselves is a function of context which is even then diffused by the sheer population density

>> No.2053290

>>2053274
Could you talk about why you think the concepts of virtue and vice and how they relate to each other, are outdated? Is it good or bad that they are outdated?

>> No.2053345
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that's not fashion trufax for christs sake
or, it's what is to fashion what grrm is to literature

fashion isn't just dressing well, it's an appreciation of fabrics, trends, style, designership

>> No.2053363

>>2053345
this is how i looked in college. or how i tried to look, anyway. i even tried to be super cool and drink highballs and smoke cigarettes all the time, especially while reading. i even thought about going full on book strap mode but then i realized that would have been incredibly gay.

>> No.2053376
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>implying writer's aren't the epitome of fashion

>> No.2053378

>>2053376
yuppie!?

>> No.2053391

>>2053345

>2011
>not riding a fixed gear bicycle

I seriously hope you don't do this.

>> No.2053409

Do you rock up to a job interview in track pants and a t-shirt or something a little more carefully put together?

Come on bros. I don't dress well but i at least understand the importance of the first impression and what comes of the visual. Fashionistas obviously place much more worth in their clothing and appearance but the basic reason why we have nice clothes and things like that is pretty obvious.

>protip: being naturally physically attractive will always be better than being fashionable. You can't buy sexy eyes and lips.

>> No.2053414

>>2053290
neither good not bad, I think, they just don't do descriptive justice ethically

Virtues are old, like, Aristotle laid out his, and the Romans had a set of Virtues like Industria (working hard) and so on. And of course, the Bible had it's seven of each.
I think that an attribute oriented discription of ethicals is not as comprehensive as an action-oriented descriptions, but Virtue kind of lives on in dispositional accounts which is good.
Vices of course tend to be brandings and labels of pathological behaviour, yet not always harmful in and of themselves. Lust, alcoholism or whatever.
The concepts I believe are antiquated, things like Modesty were made a virtue because boisteriousness was obnoxious, not because modesty was an intrinsic good. Working hard isn't an intrinsic good, it's instrumental achievement. I don't want to ramble, I think you get the gist.

>> No.2053415

>>2053345
lol u so funny d&e

>> No.2053417 [DELETED] 
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MFW a girl tells me she wants to be a fashion designer.

>> No.2053425

>>2052936

>Can someone recommend me a book which will enlighten me as to the paradox as to why people are so attracted to such a seemingly vacuous and manipulative phenomenon?

Glamorama by Bret Easton Ellis

>> No.2053445

You think you know fashion. Well, fashion's a stranger. You think fashion's your friend. My friend, fashion is danger.

>> No.2053486

>>2053414
Yeah.

I guess I don't want to admit my ideas of moral behavior could just be a defense mechanism. We live in such a self-promotional culture. We're constantly bombarded with media and ideas, and it's easy to be seduced and to cling and desire. But there are a lot of social and economic realities that prevent us from becoming the fully formed social being that we desire to be. By idealizing virtuous or moral behavior, it's like I'm defining myself against the thing that I can't quite tame or understand, like I'm trying to gain security or comfort by defining myself as above the decadent culture that, in reality, other people are perhaps more adept or better equipped to handle and benefit from.

>> No.2053543
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Dude, why hate fashion?

I'm a chubby, gross nerd with a bit of acne. Fashion is an art form. Saying "yeah well only stupid people like it" is like saying that literature is invalid because faggots cling to it like it proves something about them. So before you read my post, I don't hate fashion, and neither should you. You shouldn't hate any art form.

With that said, why do people like it? A couple of reasons, people like to feel attractive. People like status symbols. People like to fit in. People like to 'wear' their personality to make up for lacking one.

There's not just one reason. Sorry I can't offer any books. These are just observations.

>> No.2053572

Fashion is a credible way of portraying one's personality. Most people are not good at wearing their own style, so they hop onto trends, and I think this is what you are unhappy about.

>> No.2053604

You faggots can't distinguish between fashion and style sometimes.

>> No.2053703

>>2053417

most of the time when people, especially young women, say they want to be a fashion designer, they're really saying that they want to be trendy and popular and beautiful. all in a totally superficial way too. a lot of people really believe that that's what fashion is all about when it's not.

>> No.2053710

>>2053703
>especially young women
how can you be so misogynistic?

>> No.2053716

>>2053710
No (reasonable/straight) man would be caught up in such a stupid industry.

>> No.2053721

>>2053716
>No (reasonable/straight) man would be caught up in such a stupid industry.
>No (reasonable/straight)

>gives reason to backup women being inferior and irrational
>proceeds to say it's logical/reasonable to be heterosexual
oh boy...