/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20459476]

>humans start documenting things instead of spreading hearsay, invent audial and visual recording devices
>god/angels suddenly stop openly talking to people and divine miracles cease happening
Really makes you think

[Anonymous No.20459480]

>>20459476
>Variations of Religious Experience
>William James

[Anonymous No.20459496]

>>20459476
you haven’t heard the stories of people who went to heaven/hell?

[Anonymous No.20459501]

>>20459496
Ya bro I'm sure those actually happened

[Anonymous No.20459538]

>>20459476
>>humans start documenting things instead of spreading hearsay

[Anonymous No.20459589]

Well, what if I'm wrong, I mean — anybody could be wrong. We could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the pink unicorn and the flying teapot. You happen to have been brought up, I would presume, in a Christian faith. You know what it's like to not believe in a particular faith because you're not a Muslim. You're not a Hindu. Why aren't you a Hindu? Because you happen to have been brought up in America, not in India. If you had been brought up in India, you'd be a Hindu. If you had been brought up in Denmark in the time of the Vikings, you'd be believing in Wotan and Thor. If you were brought up in classical Greece, you'd be believing in Zeus. If you were brought up in central Africa, you'd be believing in the great Juju up the mountain. There's no particular reason to pick on the Judeo-Christian god, in which by the sheerest accident you happen to have been brought up and ask me the question, "What if I'm wrong?"

[Anonymous No.20459603]

>>20459476
Retarded phoneposter

[Anonymous No.20459621]

Op is probably the faggot butthurt of the Nietzsche and Christianity thread.

[Anonymous No.20459644]

>>20459589
>the great Juju up the mountain
Dawkins is a bigot. Why should anyone listen to him?

[Anonymous No.20459646]

Praise and glory be to the Lord our God

[Anonymous No.20459798]

>>20459476
>he thinks God and angels appear to material eyes and not spiritual eyes
“ Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, please open his eyes that he may see.” So the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha”

[Anonymous No.20460047]

>>20459501
Not other anon, but I'm glad you recognize their worth.

[Anonymous No.20460068]

>>20459476
Doesn't really invalidate any of the teachings in the abstract at all.
>>20459589
If you grew up in China, you would have used acupuncture. If you grew up in Maya civilization then you would've used tobacco smoke. This is just ridiculous.
>>20459646
based

[Anonymous No.20460075]

>>20459476
>god/angels suddenly stop openly talking to people
lots of people talk to God
>and divine miracles cease happening
they happen every day

[Anonymous No.20460084]

>>20459476
>If Divine Phenomena is real then why don't our Jewish electronic devices pick them up?
You people never learn...

[Anonymous No.20460091]

>>20459476
an angel told me your post is bad

[Anonymous No.20460107]

>>20459476
no amount of irrefutable proof would convince me of gods absolute existence nor deprive my mind for its insatiable lust to cling to superstition when it suits me

[Anonymous No.20460115]

>>20460084
>Let me criticize your jewish electronic devices for debunking my jewish book of slave laws

[Anonymous No.20460117]

>>20460075
this
don't know what OP is going on about

[Anonymous No.20460126]

>>20460115
>Jews invented God
I will pray for you.

[Anonymous No.20460133]

>>20460107
>no amount of irrefutable proof would convince me of gods absolute existence
irrefutable proof won't convince you? Then you're being silly. However, whether or not irrefutable proof is even possible is another question

>>20460068
>If you grew up in China, you would have used acupuncture. If you grew up in Maya civilization then you would've used tobacco smoke. This is just ridiculous.
This isn't really the same thing, because it's not like the Mayas said "acupuncture is WRONG, and tobacco smoke is the only way", but anyway, even if it were the same thing, I think you'd be just supporting my (Dawkins') point by providing even more examples, no?

[Anonymous No.20460137]

>Miracles don't happen because...they just don't! Okay?!
http://blog.magiscenter.com/blog/approved-eucharistic-miracles-21st-century

[Anonymous No.20460167]

im pretty sure that stuff stopped happening after christ left earth a long long time before audial and visual recording devices were invented

[Anonymous No.20460182]

>>20459480
FPBP

[Anonymous No.20460183]

>>20459496
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjd8E1rD3m4

[Anonymous No.20460371]

>>20459589
>Flying Spaghetti Monster
Yeah you're a real special variety of soγ guzzling pencil necked faggot aren't you? The fact that religions ARE different and unique enough that it makes your shitty little reductive pseudo-anthropological strawman wholly irrelevant is the sole refutation this line of asinine reasoning concurs to.

[Anonymous No.20460423]

>>20459646
Indeed, praise Allah and his prophet Isa

[Anonymous No.20460430]

>>20460133
>irrefutable proof won't convince you?
Irrefutable proof is indeed a major red flag. In order for a piece of knowledge to be taken even slightly seriously, it's required to be refutable

[Anonymous No.20460454]

>>20460371
So who's right? Is it the Christians, or was it Greeks? Or anyone else? Also, make sure you account for the position of the flying teapot when you head into Mercury's orbit—you might get hit.

>>20460430
Hmm, what you're saying I think usually refers to a theory. We *greatly* prefer when theories are falsifiable, unlike say string theory. But when you apply it to *proof*, I'm not quite sure what you mean. I think the problem here is that there never really is "proof" for things in the real world, only *evidence* in favor of or evidence against.

[Anonymous No.20460467]

anon, someday while you’re still in your atheist phase, assuming you have even a shred of original intelligence in you, you will be interacting with the world and suddenly be hit with ephiphany that is zero way that this is all coincidence. life on earth is like a an extremely advanced primordial low level programming language just materialized in a soup of different chemicals. it’s impossible, not to mention everything on this planet is engineered in such a way that to argue it wasn’t created is just insanity of you know any5ing about anything.

[Anonymous No.20460468]

>>20459496
I guess when miracles and supernatural stopped happening people started seeing things in their minds and imagination. Interesting coincidence, next thing you'll tell me you'll see god only when dead.......... Oh wait.

[Anonymous No.20460474]

>>20460454
>So who's right?
Stop giving bad faith arguments you stupid stoner sodabrain.

[Anonymous No.20460480]

>>20459476
>god/angels suddenly stop openly talking to people and divine miracles cease happening
Well, that's clearly false because saints keep getting canonized as investigations keep confirming intercessory miracles healing people with 0% chance of recovery and shit. Maybe you're just in denial, mate.

[Anonymous No.20460490]

>>20460467
In such a way that humans are made in god's image, and the sun revolves around the earth, and animals were made specifically for humans to use, and humans being able to conquer other species and the planet. Next thing you'll tell me that YOU are at the center of the universe and you'll definitely will see god any day now. Those 2000 years of nothing were wrong, but you no, you will see god and rapture and judgement and Jesus and everything will fall in place and world will be destroyed and kingdom of god will come, yes you will experience everything, just. two. more. weeks.

[Anonymous No.20460498]

>>20460480
>Investigation's
By whom? Christcucks investigating Christcucks? Ain't that interesting, next thing you'll tell me christcucks saw other christcucks levitate and Jesus apparition that one time.

[Anonymous No.20460508]

>>20460490
a lot of the Bible is correct, and it hints at engineering I mentioned. it warns not to do certain things, and if you do them, bad things always follow. it’s not a coincidence that the west in culturally in shambles not even a decade or so after completely abandoning God. it’s not a coincidence that fags get create insane diseases that kill them. at the very least you should be willing to look to the Bible as having a large amount of very primordial wisdom, and by experiencing and thinking on this you come to further realizations. furthermore if you don’t feel spirit I feel bad for you, I used to be a doubter too so I’m trying to not be too hard on you. alls I will say is that if you ask Jesus to show himself to you, he will, as long as you’re asking with honesty in your heart. something will happen, and you will undoubtedly feel His presence. anyway I’m going to take a bit of a nap but I hope you take care regardless anon.

[Anonymous No.20460516]

>>20460508
>a lot of the Bible is correct, and it hints at engineering I mentioned. it warns not to do certain things, and if you do them, bad things always follow.
Atheists would simply argue that the authors of the bible were people, and had some wisdom. They saw bad things happen when you did certain things (hygiene stuff, diet stuff, etc), and they made rules about it. God doesn't have to be part of the explanation.

[Anonymous No.20460520]

>>20460474
Sure it's bad faith in the sense that I'm not personally invested in this conversation, but I do believe that the argument I'm giving is legitimate.

[Anonymous No.20460521]

>>20460508
>Bible says war and disease could happen
>War and disease happens
>Woooooooooooow it's so true.
Wait till you read what history is filled with and don't invoke schizophrenia in an image of a Jewish carpenter.

[Anonymous No.20460528]

>>20460516
it’s not just hygiene anon. ever watched a spider make a web? the entire world around us is pure art, mathematical and in the traditional sense. to view it all as random circumstance is insanity. that spider comes to life and just suddenly knows how to create something beautiful with zero instruction. it’s the same with many animals and things in nature.

[Anonymous No.20460529]

>>20460498
>no arguments
I rest my case. Bless your soul.

[Anonymous No.20460548]

>>20460529
Wait so you are telling me it really is like that? Christcucks investigate christcucks and say what is and isn't a miracle? That's like thieves saying what is and isn't a theft. Hilarious system, Jew worshipper.

[Anonymous No.20460557]

>>20460548
>Jew worshipper.
you can't criticize religion without being antisemitic?

[Anonymous No.20460560]

>>20460520
>but I do believe that the argument I'm giving is legitimate.
You're asking me to spoonfeed to you on how and why one would choose to convert to a religion. How about you do your own research you fucking retard?

[Anonymous No.20460569]

>>20460557
Jesus was a Jew, you worship Jesus, therefore you are a Jew worshipper. Simple as, Jew worshipper, don't forget your god's real name is Yahweh.

[Anonymous No.20460576]

>>20460569
anon you realize how much of the New Testament is calling how jews act vile, right? the whole juseo-Christian value thing was a psyop to make American Christians worship Israel, which admittedly is annoying. Christian values could hardly be more different from Jewish ones; anybody who has looked at the NT with open eyes realizes this.

[Anonymous No.20460579]

>>20460569
I'm talking about how you use it as an insult, but you're now arguing in bad faith. fuck off

[Anonymous No.20460583]

>>20459476
>a random asteroid could wipe out our entire planet at any given time

[Anonymous No.20460586]

>>20460467
How do you know it's not all just pure coincidence?

[Anonymous No.20460589]

>>20460557
>>20460548
I guess what I really meant was, it's just disappointing appealing to Christian's anti-semitism is often a good strategy.

[Anonymous No.20460598]

>>20460586
I just do, simple as.
jokes aside have you ever thought about the complexity in that the amount of brain body signaling that has to be created to make a spider or whatever do those things? and that they’re born with this ability intact. even if yew assume that animals are organic automatons, which I don’t believe, that in itself is still insane. idk anon it’s something you should think on if you disagree. look into all sorts of natural things and how mathematics appear in nature. think about the beauty of everything, it’d be insane if it just came about randomly, and even still managed to look beautiful instead of brute or downright scary/ugly. watch videos of deer in nature and shit. it’s just really hard for me to go back to thinking this world is random.

[Anonymous No.20460607]

>>20460598
When people say things like this, it just tells me they haven't truly understood how natural selection works. It explains how everything could come to be as though it looks perfectly designed. The part about mathematics applying to nature, also, is a deep and interesting question, but ultimately it's not evidence toward God. But ultimately, why should it be surprising that trigonometry applies to the real world? There are right angles in the real world, etc.

[Anonymous No.20460608]

>>20459476
Youre misinterpreting what The Bible actually is and thats okay. Everyboday who doesnt live in a desert doesnt quite understand its purpose

[Anonymous No.20460626]

>>20460607
the world is made up of far more advanced mathematics than just right angles fren. natural selection does not explain a ton about nature and organisms. it is a very surface level explanation of things. any layperson or farmer before Darwin could have told you that traits are passed down to offspring, and that more suited animals survive. that does explain the insanity that living things actally are. I’m less concerned with natural selection itself, and more concerned with the fact that there is a biological programming language that facilitates it. that is where the proof of creation seats itself.

[Anonymous No.20460636]

>>20460576
You are a Jew worshipper. Your books were written by Jews, your messiah is Jewish, your church was made by Saul the Jew, the first Pope was Jewish, hallelujah is a Jewish word, 666 meme comes from Jews which meant Caesar Nero, book of revelation is copied from the book of Daniel which was written by Jews. You tell people about Jewish myths, you retcon Jesus to be even more Jewish by making his bloodline go through Jews of old. You name yourself in Jewish names like John and David. You worship Jews, yet you will never be Jewish.
>>20460579
You still haven't told me how you investigate miracles, retarded Jew worshipper.

[Anonymous No.20460644]

>>20460626
>the world is made up of far more advanced mathematics than just right angles fren
what a ridiculous strawman

>it is a very surface level explanation of things. any layperson or farmer before Darwin could have told you that traits are passed down to offspring, and that more suited animals survive.
You haven't put 2 and 2 together though to see how this can lead to all the wonderful variation of the world. Also you forgot to mention the random variation part (and how nonrandom processes result from those random variations), which is important. The idea of how natural selection influences not only genetic organisms, but ANYTHING where there is self-reproduction is a deep idea, and I remain convinced that almost everyone who argues for God by the complexity of the world doesn't understand it.

>I’m less concerned with natural selection itself, and more concerned with the fact that there is a biological programming language that facilitates it
With all respect, what are you talking about? Is this something that has a wikipedia page?

[Anonymous No.20460655]

>>20459476
>god/angels suddenly stop openly talking to people and divine miracles cease happening
Source?

Did the bible ever claim God talked to the majority of people? Through the timespan of the bible how often did overtly obvious miracles happen? It was exceptionally rare.
And you know how you're a genius atheist and everyone else is deluded and irrational and can't see things that are right in front of them? Okay well the bible gives the same scenarios, After God leads the Israelites out of captivity and preforms many miracles Moses leaves and goes up Mount Sinai to get the 10 commandments, 5 seconds later the Israelites start making Golden statues to other Gods and turn their back on Jehovah. Also in Christianity believing God exists doesn't grant you favour and or salvation trusting in God does if God appeared to people in the bible who didn't automatically trust him so it was worthless for them.

[Anonymous No.20460657]

>>20460608
To be fair it basically was intended to be a manual for surviving out in the desert

[Anonymous No.20460662]

>>20460655
>>20459476

Also we have evidence of God existing in your head rent free.

[Anonymous No.20460664]

>>20460598
>Intelligent design argument
Yawn

Personifying evolution or natural phenomena like motion =/= Creator man in the sky exists

[Anonymous No.20460671]

>>20460583
What's your point?

[Anonymous No.20460676]

>>20460664
Explain the theory of evolution without consulting wikipedia. You can't.

[Anonymous No.20460678]

>>20460607
>It explains how everything could come to be as though it looks perfectly designed.
It literally is. Evidence: The world exists.
>>20460664
>Personifying evolution
Wtf are you on about?

[Anonymous No.20460686]

>>20460676
You realize that still wouldn't make evolution invalid, right?

It's not a real argument. I could ask you to recite the bible from memory, then claim you're wrong because you can't. Please don't argue on here in bad faith

[Anonymous No.20460687]

>>20460678
>It literally is. Evidence: The world exists.
So you're saying the fact that the world exists is evidence that god created it? Now you're just being silly.

[Anonymous No.20460697]

>>20460687
You're jamming words in my mouth, you don't have to be a Christian to accept the World "as is". You have no evidence the World is "imperfect" in its design besides semantical moralistic inquiries.

[Anonymous No.20460704]

>>20460697
God existing is as simply as 1 + 1, everyone has an inherent belief in God. you're wasting your time arguing with an atheist. He knows God exists as much as anyone else.

[Anonymous No.20460706]

>>20460697
I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe I wasn't clear with what I meant in my original post. All I was saying was that Natural selection provides an explanation for the complexity of the world—a world that looks as though it was designed by a creative intelligence.

[Anonymous No.20460712]

>>20460704
That's funny you say it's as simple as 1 + 1. 1 + 1 is something for which there is no evidence. It is something there *cannot be* evidence for, because it's not an observational, scientific fact. It's a logical consequence that arises from an axiomatic, logical system (you define something called "zero", you define a successor function, etc (see peano arithmetic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms))))