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/lit/ - Literature


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20453596 No.20453596 [Reply] [Original]

INCELS ARE LITERALLY JUST CONTEMPORARY TROUBADOURS

>A moron; chasing when afar and fleeing when near. He longs for the love of a particular woman, but is paralyzed with fear of intimacy, and ruining his idealized affection when he gets too close. So, he curls up in a corner and wallows.

I FUCKING SOLVED THE INCEL QUESTION I DID IT I DID IT

>> No.20453623

>>20453596
That’s a simp, not a truecel.

>> No.20453651

>>20453596
Wow the first guy in history to hear of courtly love and ascribe it to the troubadours. U r a genius. Here's a tip, faggot: the sort of thing you're reading was a literary convention not a bunch of bitch-titted doughboys in middle america. Fucking state of you retards.

>> No.20453829

>>20453623
>>20453651
Op is right and you're just jelly you weren't smart enough to solve the incel question

>> No.20453839

>>20453596
I do not long for a particular women
I have never once intentionally propositioned a women

>> No.20453883

>>20453829
No the first post is right, troubadors are simps. Except not quite, because that sort of thing had more value and significance then than it does now, since there was no such thing as dating and feminism and so on. It's like judging Petrarch's sonnets through a modern lens, retarded.

>> No.20453896
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20453896

>>20453596
>>20453829
Another retard who doesn't understand incels. Why do you guys always have an opinion on us without even bothering to listen to us? You did not solve the incel question if an true incel can tell you that you are fucking wrong.

Incels do not fear intimacy, they greatly desire it, but are unable to get it because of their unfortunate circumstance of being ugly. Of course I'm sure "looks don't matter" despite the mountains of scientific research to prove otherwise.
Neck yourself faggot.

>> No.20453915

>>20453896
Looks do matter in determining who you can attract but your looks aren’t the thing stopping you from attracting anyone. It usually always has to do with your state of being and social traumas or your upbringing.

>> No.20453958
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20453958

>>20453596
Well holds true for me anyway. Though I am a fagcel with avoidant personality disorder. >>20453896 is right, what you wrote only apply to a minority.

>> No.20453989

>>20453896
There are plenty of incels who aren't bad looking though.

>> No.20454017

>>20453596
A dog came in the kitchen
and stole a crust of bread.
Then cook up with a ladle
and beat him till he was dead.

Then all the dogs came running
and dug the dog a tomb
and wrote upon the tombstone
for the eyes of dogs to come:

A dog came in the kitchen
and stole a crust of bread.
Then cook up with a ladle
and beat him till he was dead.

Then all the dogs came running
and dug the dog a tomb
and wrote upon the tombstone
for the eyes of dogs to come:

A dog came in the kitchen
and stole a crust of bread.
Then cook up with a ladle
and beat him till he was dead.

Then all the dogs came running….

>> No.20455911

>>20453623
>simp
incel cope word

>> No.20455916

>>20453896
>Incels do not fear intimacy, they greatly desire it, but are unable to get it because of their unfortunate circumstance of being ugly.
cope

>> No.20455939

i am incel but i fucked a whore, no problem with getting hard etc i only had problem to cum.
So i dont think i am afraid of intimacy.
I just cant get close to any real woman, i dont meet them and i have nothing to talk about on dating apps.
People say "lower your expectation", but i am not talking about looks per se. Women i desire are women i may relate to, i mean similiar hobbies, outlook on life etc. i can predict it from bio summary on tinder (my bio summary also is supposed to tell i am interested in literature, beginner writer etc) but i dont match those women. All women i match (and it 2 3 matches per week max) are women with no bio, that seem to be completely average boring normans, so i have no desire to interact with them. People on reddit say to meet girl as soon as possbile, but i would never meet anyone if i dont already know we would have something to talk about etc

>> No.20455969

>>20453896
The only thing that really matters to women is the massive amount of unprocessed trauma incels drag around with them. Any reasonable person will expect you to at least get started on dealing with your baggage before becoming involved with you, but the broad mental illness of the common incel seems to just compound on itself when exposed to the incel echo chamber, and precludes dealing with your trauma or even stopping its constant, self-reinforcing accumulation.

The whole thing is almost a caricature, like a series of people who see themselves as comic book villains spurned by society and wholly immutable. You've given up on everything except the fact that you've given up. The fervor with which you cling to the reasons why you've given up would help mitigate whatever symptoms of mental illness you're suffering from, if only you'd refocus it.

Get some help, fren. Try admitting that you might not know everything about human attraction, that might help. The incel community screeching about human dynamics is like a neighbor whose house sits on a pile of rocks trying to tell you how to mow your green lawn. It makes no sense. Having watched this community organize and evolve since its inception, I feel really bad for you guys. You have all convinced each other that, after trying out the gimmicks and trickery promoted by the PUA community of hacks and charlatans, nothing can ever work for you to become a happy person who values yourself. That's all it really takes for anyone to find love. Just a bit of self-acceptance.

>> No.20455994

>>20455969
blah blah blah the reality is that social media and feminism made women become primitive while painting the average men as being undesirable.
Also, incels are much bigger in number than people think. They aren't a fringe group, but rather represent a growing number of men that are simply not desirable when compared to what women can get, or atleast think they can.

>> No.20456028

>>20455994
>They aren't a fringe group, but rather represent a growing number of men that are simply not desirable when compared to what women can get, or atleast think they can.
There's nothing simple about any of this. You're trying very hard to say it's "simply" this or that, but human interaction is anything but simple. You're oversimplifying it, and by completely eliminating the agency of women (social media "made" them primitive), you also wholly give up your own agency. When you do this, you paint yourself as one of the thoughtless masses and thereby give yourself the excuse to be a victim to these grand dynamics beyond your control. Consider the possibility that these women who seem to have been hoodwinked by social media are the other side of the same coin you're on.

Maybe try to stop being average. If that's just not in the cards, consider the possibility that being average isn't that bad. The average guy can get an average girl... or he would be able to if he stopped subscribing to this incel mental illness and processed whatever trauma he has.

>> No.20456173
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20456173

>>20455969
You mean society at large does not paint us as a literal terrorist group? You suggest that there is no such thing as being permanently and irreversably fucked over? You think literally everyone have the capacity adapting to the increasingly draconian checklist of normalfag social standards? Whether you're fucked over by genetics/environment, mental traits/physical ones is irrelevant to the individual at the end of the day. Normalfags will punish you harshly for not living up to their expectations. History has proven over and over that they are capable of unspeakable cruelty over the pettiest of reasons. With this in mind, what makes you think it's beyond normalfags to treat some defenseless, low value male like dirt? We are expendable losers that no one will stand up for when push comes to shove. We're serving the role of social punching bags, free game to take out your pent up aggressions on. Humiliate us boost your own normalfag self-esteem, there will be no consequences. Why do you think blackpill discussion is so heavily suppressed and censored? Because it brings to light the ugliness of humanity, it tears down the narcissistic lies normalfags tell themselves. Incel types are the trash bins of society, where normalfags get to dump all their mental filth they carry around. As such you are not allowed to make your existence known and you're not allowed to talk about your issues because it reflects badly on everyone around you. And we can't have that now. We can't have normalfags feeling slightly uncomfortable with themselves, point out their hypocritical nature, ever. This is why normalfags hate us so much.
You seem to suggest normalfag society has our best interests in mind, which to me is absolutely ludicrous. Normalfag society only ever awards success. Your intentions are irrelevant. If you give it your best shot, and fail, the consequences will be severe. If your best shot is an absolute crapshot, not playing the game is obviously the optimal course of action.
>Just a bit of self-acceptance.
You seem to think you can materialize self-acceptance, self-esteem, confidence, etc, out of nothing. A well-adjusted person is built on years of positive reinforcement. Holding notions like this, you showcase extreme ignorance of basic human behavior. From your high horse, you're asking us to shake off years of negative conditioning like some kind superhuman. Sorry to say, it doesn't work that way. And again, normalfag society only awards success. Drowning in shit, are you gonna trust normalfags not to push you right back in as you try to escape? They're the ones that put you there in the first place, and have proven more than willing to dump some more shit on you, were you not to please them. Normalfags are never to be trusted because they get off on stabbing you in the back.

>> No.20456218

>>20456173
And also, how could I ever be a part of your circlejerk after seeing it for what it is? How could I suck up to you, submit to your standards while maintaining dignity and self-respect? Do I truly want to shape my being according to the very people that has made my existence so hellish? I'm not so sure.

>> No.20456237

>>20456218
You shouldn't. That's my point. You are so completely obsessed with the normie world that everything you do and every little way you see yourself is still strictly relative to it. The incel community has categorically no ideological ground without normie society. It's involved in this really bizarre insistence upon seeing itself as the loser to the normies' values... which are the values by which you judge yourself a los— sorry, "incel." Do you not see the problem with that, in and of itself? To someone who also doesn't necessarily find himself valued by normie society, I just reject it as much as I can. I don't give a shit what the normies say or do, or what they think. I live my life according to my own internal value system, and after a huge amount of work, I've learned to be okay with myself in purely that scope.

When you talk about dignity and self-respect, it really doesn't seem that way. How can you possibly have either of those things while clinging so tightly to the narrative that conventional society rejects you and that this rejection is bad and painful and traumatic.

>> No.20456250

>>20456173
>You seem to think you can materialize self-acceptance, self-esteem, confidence, etc, out of nothing.
No, that's not true at all. Try to deal with WHAT I AM ACTUALLY SAYING instead of making inferences on who I am, what my values are, beliefs, etc. It takes hard fucking work to be someone who naturally goes against the grain. I will be the first person to say that. We're social animals, and when nature births a weirdo, it doesn't set him up for success.
>A well-adjusted person is built on years of positive reinforcement
If he's one of those people who are naturally acceptable by broader society, sure. You can train your brain to give yourself and accept from yourself that same positive reinforcement, though.

>> No.20456305

>>20453596
More like goliards

>The goliardic class in the 12th and 13th centuries is believed to have arisen from a great surplus of clerics and monks (younger sons) in need of developing means of support. The medieval social convention of primogeniture meant that the eldest son inherited title and estate. This practice of bestowing the rights of inheritance upon the eldest son left younger sons to seek other means by which to support themselves. Often, these younger sons went, or were sent, to the universities and monasteries of the day, where theology and preparation for clergy careers were a major focus. Many felt no particular affinity for religious office, and often could not secure an office even if they desired one because of an overabundance of those educated in theology. Consequently, over-educated, under-motivated clerics often adopted not the life of an ordered monk, but one mainly intent on the pursuit of carnal pleasures and on protest within a structured setting associated with carnival, such as the Feast of Fools, or church liturgy (parodic masses).

>> No.20456378
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20456378

>>20456237
Because as a breathing, living human, I have basic human needs. Physical and psychological. Attempting to have them met, normalfags seem compelled to put me through hell. I was a top student once, I have no problem working difficult mental tasks. I currently work in construction, doing back breaking physical labor. I could do whatever task for all eternity, no problem, if it weren't for normalfags always trying to bring me down, trying impose themselves on me, doing their worst trying to break me. Of course I aspire for mental and physical independence, what else can I do in my situation? But in the end I'm only human, and I will always be dependent on society to keep on living, making myself vulnerable is unavoidable, subjecting myself to various indignities inevitable. There is no walking away from normalfag society, it engulfs all of this planet. Don't pretend you have done so. The fact that you are capable of doing well under these circumstances, the fact that your "value system" does not clash with the rest of society, is evidence you're well adapted to normalfag standards. Your delusions of independence is just an expression of your normalfag narcissism. You suck the teet of society like the rest of us, and by your own admission, comfortably so.
>>20456250
I believe it when I see it. Humans have evolved to prosper in small tight-knit tribal communities, not through social/mental isolation surrounded by hostile strangers. You can only pat yourself on the back for so long.

>> No.20456419

>>20456378
>There is no walking away from normalfag society, it engulfs all of this planet. Don't pretend you have done so.
I work a night shift security job, and have for the last three or four years. I write weird, unpublishable fiction and don't care to make concessions on it. It was only once I stopped hating myself for being different that I was able to really just let go and stop caring so much that I was different — and I very much am different. Not many people are willing and able to be alone as long as I am, and less are wholeheartedly willing to accept work below their means to do so. Sometimes normies find it strange the way I live my life. Sometimes they'll find strange things worthy of derision, attempts at bullying, etc. I really just don't care.

I don't "do well" under normie standards. I never will. The reason is that I genuinely just don't share those standards. If normie standards don't reward me for who I genuinely am, I'm not going to kick and scream and cry out at the injustice of it. I give the normies as little of myself as possible, and I'm comfortable with that. I'm precisely as dependent on society as is society on me.

>> No.20456427

>>20456419
>Sometimes normies find it strange the way I live my life. Sometimes they'll find strange things worthy of derision, attempts at bullying, etc. I really just don't care.
And just to drive it home, from my vantage point, it's YOU who seem like the normie. With your hanging and incessant reference to normie society, you are in my eyes just another hanger-on to these dynamics to which you seem to have so many problems with. It's incomprehensible to me that someone could so desperately want to be a part of a system you're so incredibly convinced wants no part of you. It makes no sense that you would willingly feed that dynamic and become so attached to it when the alternative seems so obvious to someone who lives that alternative.

>> No.20456432

>>20456419
ok but do you fuck or are you an incel, thats the question, if you fuck then what would you say is your reason why you get some ass

>> No.20456449

>>20453896
>unable to get it because of their unfortunate circumstance of being ugly
There are tons of ugly men who are able to get intimacy from women, but they usually have something desirable about them (personality, status, money etc). In any case, it is all in the mind. You can’t get something if you firmly believe it is impossible. Your beliefs inform your actions. I know it is cliche, but I have a friend who’s 6’2 195lbs, athletically built and handsome yet an incel because of his lack of self confidence and inexperience.

>> No.20456486

>>20456432
I did the casual sex thing when I was younger. It's not for me. I do have a pretty stable, long-term relationship though.

>> No.20456508

>>20456486
how you met your girl and why you think she got interested in you, and how you acted to get her attention? why you decided to pursue her?

>> No.20456514

An incel poetry general would be kino.

>> No.20456534
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20456534

>>20456419
>>20456427
Am I to believe you have undone millions of years of prosocial evolutionary pressure?
Cut off from other people, I can see how you would eventually delude yourself that you don't care.
>>20456486
Oh wait nevermind lmao. Was taking you seriously there for a while, normalfag. Turns out you're showered in social affirmation on the daily. Haha the absolute nerve you got, painting yourself as an outsider, paving your own way through life by your own sheer willpower. lm fucking ao. I'm stupid for expecting anything different of you. You are all the same, narcissists all full of yourselves. You all think you know loneliness, you all think you know suffering. Turns out you know jack shit.

>> No.20456549

Do you guys remember when robot and incel weren’t Identical, when there were people who due to social anxiety or simply not relating to other people felt distanced to society and didn’t frame it in a sexual or romantic context? it was a lot more respectful then, before all of it became directed to a female as if having a girlfriend or wife would fix the social anxieties, depressions, angst, economic problems and so forth that the individual has. And I’ve seen it a lot, that when the incel actually does get a girl, he gets absolutely anally devastated, realizing that a female doesn’t solve the problems and emptiness he feels inside or even his anxieties.

>> No.20456581

>>20456534
Honestly, I see all you incels as flawed and scuffed versions of myself. I'm what you could have been if you were asking all these questions before the incel movement was even a thing.

>> No.20456589

>>20456581
You are not like me in slightest cunt, and I don't want your pity or advice. Go fuck yourself.

>> No.20456599

>>20456589
>You are not like me in slightest
Unfortunately, this is true. I've put a lot of work into myself and into being happy with who I am, even as strange as I am. You, for whatever reason, lack the courage to do so, and will scrabble at the underbelly of normalcy until you die, and probably at your own hand. It could be different, but it probably won't be.

>> No.20456653
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20456653

>>20456599
You haven't made an effort in your life, you're just another dime-a-dozen normalfag who think socially stumping your toe is a disaster, overcoming whatever issue with shitloads of people supporting you is a struggle.
At the very least, you've stopped pretending to care and shown your true, petty, sadistic face. So it seems this conversation were not entirely in vain.

>> No.20456669

>>20455969
Rope. Now.

>> No.20456685

>>20456653
>true, petty, sadistic
That's not sadism. If anything, it's annoyance after being told by you constantly that I'm someone I'm not. But it is, above all, honesty. Consider the possibility that what you read as sadism isn't that. And even if it were, what if you just didn't care? If I am a normie, aren't you setting me up as your superior? I reject that. I would tell you more about myself and the ways in which I've struggled and overcome, but you seem pretty adamant in just... not believing me? What if I were telling the truth about everything I've said? Is that even a possibility, or is this idea that I'm some mythical giga-normie (while also being a long-term night shift worker, at a job in which most nights I talk to no one) so firmly entrenched that there's no point?

The fact that I'm still engaging in this conversation should show you that I care, in some capacity or another.

>> No.20456711

>>20456549
Yeah, I remember.
Robot is a good word.

>> No.20456800

>>20456549
>>20456711
What do you think caused this perceptual shift? My gut tells me it began sometime during the 2014 kerfuffle, but that strikes me as too easy of an explanation.

>> No.20456810

>>20456800
Literally the incel community growing on reddit. That's literally it.

>> No.20456839

>>20456800
Imo, it’s actually a known phenomena in Asia with hikki and also just a common phenomena in western society in general.

By this I mean to say, the source of meaning a person has in the past was religious in nature but also group/family based, with a small degree of work putting in the role, as time went on humans began putting less focus on religion and family/group as their source of meaning and identity due to an individuality focus, and with this they began focusing more on love and romance as the origin of their meaning.

In the ancient world, it was religion and it was honor, honor is simply the respect and admiration of the group, but with individuality focus you no longer care about the group. So honor is dissolved, and with the secular focus of our societies today, religion is no longer the source of meaning for most.

So what does that leave? Work and individual relationships, and the individual relationship propped up the most is the voluntary relationship between the male and female, because on a biological level we are programmed to be mentally awarded by it, and on a social level we are told that to be good, strong, cool, appropriate, is to win a mate or multiple mates. So I think the individual who especially is a robot and a neet, he doesn’t have friends to have a sense of honor and loyalty to, he doesn’t have a work he cares about to give him a sense of meaning, all that’s left is a woman, so the woman at once becomes his god and his devil, he sees the woman as the creator of his meaning, the giver of his anguish, his hell and his heaven. Because all of his meaning in life and value as a person is, by his own estimation, in accordance with a woman, because he has no other aspect really to cling to. Thus the fixation on women and hate of women they feel, and I believe this led to the tranny/homosexual epidemic so plaguing so much of 4chan and incel-culture, as they believe they can attain meaning by becoming the thing that grants meaning, in that manner becoming the meaningful. You need only talk for a little while with 4chan trannies to see how they’re broken men who are using trannydom as an escape mechanism to a meaningless existence and lack of self value.

>> No.20456925

>>20456685
You care in the same capacity Kiwifarmers care about the lolcows they stalk. Advice and all. It's very transparent what it is all about.
Anyhow, nothing you say could be relevant to my life as you arrive from a socially coddled position, you pretend to be some outcast weirdo yet you had the social capital to fuck around in your youth, have a wife and is well-adjusted enough to be content with life in normalfag society. Oh you work the night shift? What a social pariah you are.
>If I am a normie, aren't you setting me up as your superior?
I am setting you up as my enemy. You're trying to coerce me into submitting to your normalfag bootstrap-shaming ideology because if I did, it would absolve you normalfags of responsibility for your actions. It won't happen though because I have seen and been through enough to determine there is no benevolence behind normalfags spouting "advice" or "trying to help". You are only interested in protecting the ideology on which you ego depends. I may sell my body to your society but I won't sell my soul. I have tried to compromise, and I have tried to forgive, but you normalfags can't really stop kicking someone once they are down, can you?

>> No.20456975

>>20456925
Anon where do you see yourself in 10 years

>> No.20456980

>>20456975
Dead

>> No.20456985

>>20456975
working in private equity, hopefully somewhere evil like blackrock or vanguard

>> No.20457462
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20457462

>>20456925
My god you are such a nigger-faggot, get the fuck off this board and have sex

>> No.20457484

>>20456599
Why don't you answer my questions?
>>20456508
Tell me what exactly you did, so some girl thought its worthwhile to fuck you (security guard loser) for free. What exactly was that work you put so she fucked you.

>> No.20457502

>>20453896
I have a solution.
Get laid

>> No.20457607

>>20453596
go back to tw*tch

>> No.20457681

>>20453596
Stupid frogposter

>> No.20457738

>>20456925
>a socially coddled position
You mean as an asocial loner? I'm coddled?
>you pretend to be some outcast weirdo
I don't frame it in that way. I'm a weirdo, sure. But the way I see it, normie society and I don't see eye to eye. I don't WANT to be a part of it. That's what I'm trying to stress to you. If I wanted to, and if I were still conditioned by societal messaging as to what a person should be doing, I'd probably be just as miserable as you are. Hell, I definitely would be, because I WAS miserable for eight or nine years following my release from the army.
>>20456925
>well-adjusted enough to be content with life in normalfag society. Oh you work the night shift? What a social pariah you are.
I'm not well adjusted, really. I just don't care that I'm not well-adjusted. I'm trying to get you to entertain even the possibility that it's okay to not be well-adjusted. Things started looking up for me not after I magically became well-adjusted, but after I accepted myself as I am.
>bootstrap-shaming ideology
The only reason you see what I'm saying like this is because you have decided to see it that way from the very start. You see one or two sentences and your pattern brain immediately thinks it's seen this before. I'm a 2006 oldfag. Please consider the possibility that maybe I've got a perspective that might be just a tiny fucking bit more nuanced than you're giving me credit for.
>>20457484
>Tell me what exactly you did, so some girl thought its worthwhile to fuck you
Sure, this isn't hard to explain. What drew her to me is my self-knowledge. I know who I am, and I accept myself for who I am. Yes, even though that person is strange. I don't need friends, or people in general. I love my girlfriend and I would be devastated if we split up, but I'm completely fine on my own. I'm probably a schizoid, a real one. That's pretty close to the living definition of "weird," for a highly social species.

>> No.20457799
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20457799

>>20457462
Oh, another normalfag is mad I point out they get everything in life for free, society catering to their every need. I can't imagine what it would be like being this petty and entitled. The fact I consider myself unfortunate and oppressed is enough to get you riled up. I can't even have that, it seems. I need to exist in a state of constant guilt over not constantly self-improving according to the standards you lay out. Except I'm not supposed to care about your standards.
Apparently normalfags are benevolent creatures who would never ever bully and oppress someone like me. And even if they did, I would be at fault for caring and letting it affect me! And actually," bullying" is valuable feedback I ought to take to heart.
Basically I'm supposed to exist in this state of quantum superposition where I care and don't care simultaneously and about the bullying normies subject me to and don't subject me to. Thank you normies for your advice!

Or maybe I stop listening to you condescending fucking assholes altogether, realize you are fucking evil, constantly attempting to gaslight the shit out of me and others like me. How about that?

>> No.20457947

>>20457738
>normie society and I don't see eye to eye
The fact that you are doing fine, means you are a perfect fit for normalfag society.
>I'm not well adjusted, really.
If you truly weren't well-adjusted, no woman would want you. You would hate your life. You don't.
If you truly weren't well-adjusted, you wouldn't think it okay to not be well-adjusted. Because not being well-adjusted is an inherently painful state. If you accept who you are and still do fine, you are a normalfag. Because only a normalfag could do fine being themselves in normalfag society.
>The only reason you see what I'm saying like this is because you have decided to see it that way from the very start.
You think I was born like this? You think I weren't fed the exact same normalfag platitudes you are spouting my entire childhood? You think I didn't believe in them? All my teenage years and early adulthood were spent dealing with the normalfag lies I were fed and had internalized.
>I'm a 2006 oldfag. Please consider the possibility that maybe I've got a perspective that might be just a tiny fucking bit more nuanced than you're giving me credit for.
Oh yeah I haven't heard this one from every boomer normalfag ever. You have made it painfully clear you have no idea about my life is about and so far you haven't said anything useful whatsoever. If you had anything to offer, how about typing it down instead of pointing to your oldfag status or diagnosis or whatever.

Normalfags will shame you into trying, and as you fail living up to their standards, they will shame you for failing.
If you say you can't, because there is something wrong with you, they will say you are making excuses.
If you say you can't, because there is something wrong with them, they will say you are being unfair.
Normalfags want me to go the distance after sawing off my legs.
Normalfags can't be reasoned with.

>> No.20458205

>>20453596
>fear of intimacy
incels are not schizoids, faggot