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/lit/ - Literature

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20443394 No.20443394 [Reply] [Original]

Everyone talks about Crime and Punishment and Karamazov but this is my favorite Dostoevsky novel. His analysis of the young extremists is so accurate it hurts.

>> No.20443409

> is so accurate it hurts.

Jamie, pull up the soi meme

>> No.20443430

It has one of the best build ups in narrative history. Nothing else comes close with how the story starts so slow and steadily accelerates to pure insanity.

>> No.20443434
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20443434

>> No.20443438

>>20443394
The patricians’ choice of Dostoevsky novels.

>> No.20443578

>>20443394
it really is underrated. it has its flaws stemming from needing to be rewritten, but its still great as is. a personal favorite for sure. its a goddamn roller coaster of feels. absolutely hilarious and gut-wrenchingly sad, anger-inducing, and bitter-sweet, and the way the narrative slowly unfolds until shit hits the fan is great

>> No.20444235

>>20443394
definitely the most insightful of his novels, in hindsight at least. the characters feel like they could be alive today.

>> No.20444494

Shatov 100% listened to Linkin Park

>> No.20444644

>>20443430
This. The final acts are absolute chaos.

>> No.20444647

>>20443578
>it has its flaws stemming from needing to be rewritten
Filtered

>> No.20445038

>>20443394
>His analysis of the young extremists is so accurate it hurts
It isn't accurate.

>> No.20445077

>>20444647
pseud

>> No.20445276

>>20444494
Shatov was a good lad.

>> No.20445336

>>20444494
They weren't big yet, much less in the east

>> No.20445358

the people who say that c+p is there favourite book are usually just pseuds who haven’t even read it
you’re probably just a pedo though who fapped to the scene where the mc raped a young girl

>>20444235
notes from the underground fits this much more

>> No.20445387

>>20445276
yeh, broke my heart when they done him in. If he was born in another place and time he would've had a chance at a good life.

>> No.20445589

>>20445387
I didn't know it was based on a real crime, so when it happened it hit me even harder because I hoped he would be saved

>> No.20445843

I love how Dostoevsky creates his characters and naturally lets them interact inside their world. He doesn’t push the narrative more than when the characters naturally do it themselves. That’s why I love this book so much.
Bothers Karamazov is also like that

>> No.20445869

>>20445589
had no idea it was based on a real dude/crime either

>> No.20445897

>>20445276
That grotto scene is one of the best in literature. For all of Dostoyevsky’s flaws, the build up, and the high points are worth it. Few writers, or maybe none, reach Dostoyevsky’s ceiling

>> No.20446042

just bought this book because of all the hype itt, better be fuckin good. for the record i've given up on c&p twice (after the murder) at different points in my life, closed notes after about ten pages and just chuckled to myself when i flipped thru the wall of text in my karamazov copy

>> No.20446138

>>20446042
C&P gets a little better after a certain tragedy to Sonya's family (i love her).
And I personally liked The Idiot a lot more.

>> No.20446192

>>20446042
Demons is Dostoyevsky's hardest novel to read and it takes 150 pages before really starting

>> No.20446292

>>20446042
I liked Demons more from a literary POV, but C&P was definitely easier and more fun to read for me. Good luck.

>> No.20446300

I read this some time ago but I don't remember much from it. Probably because the translation I read (P&V) was really dry. I'll have to pick up a different translation and read it again some time.

>> No.20446328

>>20443394
Pretty much every book by him is about young extremists. You just pick the spices with specific dosto books.

>> No.20446452

>>20446042
you’ll never finish it if you haven’t read his other books. Definitely his hardest

>> No.20446466

>>20446042
It’s not fucking hunger games. Real novels aren’t meant to coddle you and cater to your specific attention span, which sounds like it’s similar to a goldfish

>> No.20446478

>>20443394
Based. The last third of the book is awesome and he is deadly accurate with some of his characterizations

>> No.20446481

>>20446466
the rambling just gets on my tits, and all the characters are fucking retarded

>> No.20446482

>>20446138
Sonya was an annoying whiny bitch

>> No.20446518

>>20445897
>his flaws
Such as? Just asking your opinion.

>> No.20446530

>>20446481
Juvenile, empy criticism. You have to be 18 to post here.

>> No.20446580

>>20446481
>gets on my tits
i think reddit would love to talk about john green with you. maybe youre better suited there

>> No.20446588

>>20446530
>>20446580
calm down you two, i just don't dig the guy's style. but i'm giving him another chance!

>> No.20446602

>>20446588
i think youll like it. its just a slow burn but it really escalates in the last part

>> No.20446640
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20446640

>>20446588
im just teasing fren. im glad youre giving it another try

>> No.20447145

Just getting in reading some Russian literature, so far I've only finished Notes From Underground. What translation do you guys recommend for Demons? There seems to be a lot of debate over which version is best.

>> No.20447192

>>20445038
Dosto was criticized for exaggerating how violent and self-destructive young leftists were but in hindsight he greatly underestimated them.

>> No.20447196

>>20447145
I read the Michael Katz translation and had no problems, but I haven't read the others.

>> No.20447253

>>20447145
I read the peaver and volokhonsky and it was pretty good, although their translations are pretty hot and miss. I didn’t like their notes from underground.
Can’t go wrong with Constance Garnett

>> No.20447265

>>20447253
>hot
Hit and miss

>> No.20447294

>>20447253
Constance Garnett seems the most "true to text" in my opinion.

>> No.20447295

>>20443394
Demons is probably my least favorite Dostoevsky. Not that it's bad, just far less memorable than The Idiot or The Brothers Karamazov.

>> No.20447308

>>20447294
Hers are the least "true to text" but the most pleasant to read.

>> No.20447312

>>20447295
What makes you say that? I thought Stepan, Pytor, Kirillov and Fedya were all memorable characters. My only complaint is that the book has a slow start.

>> No.20447317

>>20447308
I noticed her translation keeps the word "nigger" in C&P while the other copies I own translate it as "negro."

>> No.20447542 [DELETED] 

>>20443394
Can anyone tell me how good are the Penguin novels? Everyone in this board recommending me richard and larissa traslation.

>> No.20447562

>>20443394

Can anyone tell me how good are the Penguin novels? Everyone in this board recommending me peaver and volokhonsky translation

>> No.20447619

>>20447562
Pretty good. Those are usually Garnett. At least my copy of “the idiot” is Garnett

>> No.20447630

>>20447253
I read the P/V translation of Notes from Underground and didn't really love it. Don't know if it was because of them or the book itself so I think I'll try Garnett, thanks.

>> No.20447887

>>20444647
its flaws are apparent but its still one of my all time favorites. I was in no way filtered

>> No.20447902

>>20447887
What flaws?

>> No.20447932

>>20447562
>>20447619
Penguin doesn't use Garnett for anything that I'm aware of. They might have at one point, but not for some time. The Penguin translations of Brothers Karamazov and Crime and Punishment are good (both by David McDuff). I haven't read Penguin for anything else by Dosto, but I've read their translation of Goncharov's Oblomov (done by David Magarshack) and found it very readable. I wouldn't recommend P&V because I found their translation of Demons to be very dry.

>> No.20447989

>>20447902
its pretty apparent when you get into the second half of the book that he was indecisive as to what to do with stovrogin since his original plans were ruined by censorship and you can feel that the narrative hits a few speed bumps in that regard. I still consider the finished product among my favorite novels though.

>>20447562
for dostoyevsky ive only read the penguin edition of Demons and it was a great translation (maguire) with heaps of endnotes and of course the censored chapter is included. I would definitely recommend it.

>> No.20448276

>>20447989
>he was indecisive as to what to do with stovrogin since his original plans were ruined by censorship

I don't think the removal of the priest scene hurts the book that much. Instead of Stovrogin committing suicide because he feels guilt about being a rapist and a murderer he commits suicide because he was responsible for his fiance's murder.

>> No.20448303

Why is this the only place on the internet or in real life that recommends Garnett?

>> No.20448310

>>20448303
How many Dostoevsky-readers do you know in real life?

>> No.20448372

>>20448310
Quite a few. Maybe the most famous literary writer ever

>> No.20448412

>>20448372
I must live in the wrong neighborhood. Even the literary people I know only read John Grisham or Vince Flynn if they're men or Janet Evanovich if they're women.

>> No.20449067

>>20443394
ye im gonna go with the gambler
filtered

>> No.20449105

>>20446518
I think he can be a little too melodramatic at times. He also has a lot of filler. Some it is a great build up that leads to great scenes, but that doesn’t make it any better to read when you’re actually reading it. His writing can be stilted at times, no matter what translation, and my Russian friends confirm this. He’s still arguably the greatest novelist ever, but no one is perfect

>> No.20449116

>>20447317
You need to take a break from being online if this is your criteria for what translation to read. Garnett is generally seen as the worst Dostoyevsky translator, among the popular ones, from Russians, critics and hobby readers alike. /lit/ just likes going against the grain

>> No.20449479

>>20447932
you're right. i was thinking of barnes and noble classics

>> No.20448450

>>20448412
What?

>> No.20448465

>>20448412
Dostoyevsky isn’t some hipster writer

>> No.20448478

>>20443394
I wished I lived like that absolute paragon of /lit/ my man Stephan. Shacked up with a milf living like a neet and tutoring little girls about literature and speaking french all day and lamenting and fretting and just being the essence of this board.

>> No.20448481

>>20448450
>>20448465
Actually I'm thinking of my boomer dad and aunt. They're the only people I know irl who read.

>> No.20448485

>>20448478
Stephan is the god of /lit/.

>> No.20448609

>>20448481
That's pretty cool that you have relatives that actually read. I wish my parents read. Imagine how fun it would be if you set up a little bookclub with your aunt? Maybe you two could meet up at her condo while her husband is away on his monthly conference in Dallas and explore new ideas together. Of course, first she will need to school you on the classics. Your aunt studied philosophy during pre-law and had a particular affinity for the greeks. You cringe at the memory of trying to impress her with a Nietzsche quote during one of you visits and remember how you stumbled awkwardly through an attempted explanation of Dionysian and Apollonian lifestyles in a desperate attempt to sound intellectual. She chuckled her soft musical laugh at my fumbling and suggested I demonstrate what a Dionysian man would act like as she unbuttened the top on her white blouse, and poured me another glass of wine. I admit, my eyes were lingering a few seconds too long every time I glanced at her stocking covered thighs as she leaned against the edge of the loveseat, her legs draped over my lap. She had been complaining about sore feet after having to work an important case at the firm, so I decided a Dionysian man would help his aunt with a massage. A massage that started something that changed my life forever.

>> No.20450029

>>20448478
the whole time I was reading I imagined him wearing a Lincoln top hat

>> No.20450293

>>20448276
The priest confession is included in all editions.

>> No.20450422

>>20448276
i recall reading somewhere that the plans for stovrogins character were notably different and he was supposed to be the absolute focus of the novel, and a lot of the novel was re-written to cope with the censorship since the scene was so important to his character development. also reading the book, i recall there being a period where stovrogin kind of just drops of the face of the earth for quite a while and it kinda disrupts the flow of the narrative and the focus on him as the protagonist of the novel, and I cant help but wonder if that happens because dosto was unsure of what to do with him

>> No.20450554

>>20445038
It’s literally his spin on a real world event. All the main characters are based on real people

>> No.20450945

>>20449105
I suddenly know what it is to be a women, because I simply adore his melodrama. I struggle to see what part of it could be filler. It seems to me that everything is absolutely crucial to the entire work, barring the exception in Notes from a Dead house, which is basically nothing but (Marvelous!) filler.

>> No.20451673

>>20443394
Did you read it?

>> No.20452298

>>20448609
kekd nice one, had me in the first half

>> No.20452601

About 400 pages in and so far it has been really tiring to read. Especially Stepan's annoying sadboy monologue is just unbearable.