thus spoke zarathustra

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thus spoke zarathustra Anonymous Sat May 28 09:42:45 2022 No.20435031 [Reply] [Original]

This book is the only thing you need to read. It stands alone in the philosophical canon.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:43:48 2022 No.20435032 >>20435031 The prologue is maybe the best thing ever written by a human, certainly the best thing written in the 19th century.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:45:58 2022 No.20435036 >>20435031 I agree that it is one of the best books of all time, but there are others as well

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:46:31 2022 No.20435038 >>20435031 Second only to Plato

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:47:00 2022 No.20435043 >>20435036 which others can stand the mountain air that comes from this book?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:48:09 2022 No.20435048 >>20435043 Emerson. Nietzsche is very indebted to him

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:48:28 2022 No.20435050 >>20435031 It's cringe. Bible is all you'll ever need, the rest is optional entertainment.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:48:50 2022 No.20435051 Can I just jump into it or should I read his other work first?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:51:28 2022 No.20435058 >>20435051 Any understanding of Plato, Kant, Schopenhauer and start with BT

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:54:16 2022 No.20435065 >>20435050 >it's cringe >Bible is all you'll ever need pick one

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:54:43 2022 No.20435066 >>20435031 Is gay. Nietzsche was gay.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 09:55:18 2022 No.20435068 >>20435051 just some basic understanding of Nietzsche's work and other philosophical ideas, but you can jump in pretty easily if you're willing to put in the work

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:00:06 2022 No.20435085 >>20435051 Nietzsche contradicts himself on many things, so you can just into it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:04:09 2022 No.20435095 >>20435058 No. If you read TSZ, an don’t understand it at all, he’s not for you. You don’t need any prerequisites to get the gist and Nietzsche’s other work explains the finer details

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:05:11 2022 No.20435099 >>20435085 Like what?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:08:03 2022 No.20435109 File: 95 KB, 867x685, 50626ADD-A9DD-4442-9863-22724B99EB53.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20435031 I love Nietzsche threads.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:10:30 2022 No.20435118 >>20435038 Plato didn’t even understand the value the arts and needed Aristotle to correct him on that in Poetics. >>20435050 Kys tradlarper. Stay mad Nietzsche BTFO’d your Jewish slave morality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:16:42 2022 No.20435135 >>20435095 The bible is a prereq to TSZ

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:23:25 2022 No.20435146 >>20435135 No. Nietzsche explains his issues with the Bible, such as the chapter “on the priests” and others

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:27:37 2022 No.20435160 >>20435118 Old testament has plenty of ubermensch, something that hardly exist now

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:39:13 2022 No.20435194 >>20435146 Lol

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 10:40:43 2022 No.20435201 What’s so good about it?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 11:20:43 2022 No.20435351 >>20435031 > Bro just become the Ubermensch bro

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 11:54:23 2022 No.20435469 >>20435031 I wish I hadn't gotten rid of my copy. I read it when I was quite young and it was way over my head.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 11:55:09 2022 No.20435473 Did you understand it? I had to have my dad explain it to me

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 11:58:53 2022 No.20435487 >>20435160 >in the old testament (before Jesus’) there were Übermensch >now (after Jesus) there are no Übermemsch Maybe worshipping a weak figure that prescribes humility, non-violence, and self renunciation is the problem.

Anonymous Sat May 28 12:00:39 2022 No.20435493

>>20435031
It’s easily Nietzsche’s worst book. I’m not sure why he kept praising it so much and saying that it was his most important work. I have to assume that it was just an elaborate joke.
Genealogy of Morality and Gay Science, on the other hand, are magnificently brilliant.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:03:34 2022 No.20435508 >>20435493 Birth of Tragedy is his worst. TSZ is a beautiful book.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:07:40 2022 No.20435524 >>20435493 Contrarianism

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:17:58 2022 No.20435560 >>20435473 How old are you?

Anonymous Sat May 28 12:18:02 2022 No.20435561

>>20435031
>I now go alone, my disciples! Ye also now go away, and alone! So will I have it.
>Verily, I advise you: depart from me, and guard yourselves against Zarathustra! And better still: be ashamed of him! Perhaps he hath deceived you.
>The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies, but also to hate his friends.
>One requiteth a teacher badly if one remain merely a scholar. And why will ye not pluck at my wreath?
>Ye venerate me; but what if your veneration should some day collapse? Take heed lest a statue crush you!
>Ye say, ye believe in Zarathustra? But of what account is Zarathustra! Ye are my believers: but of what account are all believers!
>Ye had not yet sought yourselves: then did ye find me. So do all believers; therefore all belief is of so little account.
>Now do I bid you lose me and find yourselves; and only when ye have all denied me, will I return unto you.
>Verily, with other eyes, my brethren, shall I then seek my lost ones; with another love shall I then love you.

I would hope that anyone who appreciates Nietzsche take good care in reading these lines. He was such a powerful thinker and writer that your first reaction when reading him is to latch on to his ideas as supreme truth, but his whole conceit was for individuals to not blindly follow and worship him or anyone, rather, to develop your own ideas and pursue your own self-education. I see a lot of Nietzsche worship on this board, a lot of parroting of his words as if he was never wrong, but anyone familiar with his work will see that he remains elusive throughout all of his writings and celebrated that Heraclitean sense of contradiction.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:20:11 2022 No.20435571 The Twilight Of Idols is clearly his best book.

Anonymous Sat May 28 12:30:20 2022 No.20435603
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>>20435508
BoT was one of my first, I really loved it. Maybe the Wagner stuff specifically is bad, but I think he's right about music. "...world symbolism of music cannot be exhaustively interpreted through language, because it symbolically refers to the primal contradiction and the primal suffering within the primal Oneness." I think the book does a good job of setting the stage for the rest of his work. And it has my favorite section out if all his books where he points out that in Christianity the serpent is used to place all of humanities greatest traits on women as sin. "What distinguishes the ayran version is the sublime idea of active sin as the truly Promethean virtue... The contradiction at the heart of the world was... a confusion of different worlds, a divine and a human world... both individually right, but each merely one individual beside another, suffering from its individuation." What didn't you like about the book?

Oh also since you like TSZ; What's the fire dog meant to convey? I've been having trouble conceptualizing that one.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:31:54 2022 No.20435613 >>20435560 I am in my twenties

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:37:06 2022 No.20435630 >>20435085 He never contradicts himself. If what you read seems contradicting you don't understand the deeper layer underneath it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:38:29 2022 No.20435637 >>20435493 >t. filtered

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:39:42 2022 No.20435644 >>20435561 Maybe this is one of the best things Nietzsche wrote. Don't become a blind follower, remain individual

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 12:42:19 2022 No.20435652 >>20435031 To be fair, it gets funnier if you do read previous canon. And in German. >>20435048 Nietzsche isn't guilty about it at all.

Anonymous Sat May 28 12:53:42 2022 No.20435700

>>20435603
BoT is still a good book, but among his books it has the least to offer and is the weakest in terms of his writing (naturally, since it was his first full book). But if the subject matter really appeals to you, I can see why you wouldn't think it's his worst. All of his books are something special.

>Oh also since you like TSZ; What's the fire dog meant to convey? I've been having trouble conceptualizing that one.
It refers to revolutionaries of any kind. People who want immediate change and believe they can create it through major upsets of a system. That's the fire dog being criticized by Zarathustra. Nietzsche is strongly opposed to that notion, believing instead that all great things and radical changes develop slowly and through the incremental efforts of more patient types of people, summarized elegantly when Zarathustra says: "It is the stillest words that bring on the storm. Thoughts that come on doves’ feet guide the world." In the Nietzschean worldview, it is invisible hands, not big mouths, around which new values revolve and take shape from.

Anonymous Sat May 28 13:03:46 2022 No.20435727
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>>20435031
Many of the most innovative features of the language and themes of Zarathustra were taken from Der Ring des Nibelungen.

>'Wotan’s relationship with Siegfried is something wonderful, like no other poetry in the world: love and enforced enmity and the desire for destruction. This is highly symbolic for the understanding of Wagner’s character: love for that which redeems, judges, and destroys; but splendidly perceived!'

>The confrontation between Zarathustra (as ‘Untergehender’) and his progeny, the ‘Übermensch’, appears as a free paraphrase of the confrontation between Wotan and his progeny, ‘the man of the future’, in Siegfried, Act III, where Wotan (in Wagner’s own words) rises to the tragic height of willing his own fall. Nietzsche’s attempt to improve on the scene he described as comparable to no other poetry in the world will be evident to the student in the long excursus of ‘Zarathustra’s Vorrede’, beginning

>'What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal. What can be loved in man is that he is a going-across and a going-down.'

>By availing himself of material culled from the dramatic climax of the trilogy, he prepares to deliver his own answer to the question propounded in both works.

Anonymous Sat May 28 13:04:47 2022 No.20435730

>>20435727
Nietzsche while writing Zarathustra:
>With this book I have stepped into a new Ring
>Finally, if I am not completely mistaken about my future, it is through me that the best part of the Wagnerian enterprise will live on—and that’s what is almost droll about the affair.
>I am better now and I even believe that Wagner's death was the most substantial relief that could have been given me just now. It was hard for six years to have to be the opponent of the man one had most reverenced on earth, and my constitution is not sufficiently coarse for such a position. After all it was Wagner grown senile whom I was forced to resist; as to the genuine Wagner, I shall yet attempt to become in a great measure his heir (as I have often assured Fräulein Malvida, though she would not believe it).
>It's already beginning, what I prophesied for a long time, that in many pieces I will be R.W.'s heir.—

Ecce Homo:
>Suppose I had christened my Zarathustra with a name not my own,—let us say with Richard Wagner's name,—the acumen of two thousand years would not have sufficed to guess that the author of Human, all-too-Human was the visionary of Zarathustra.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 13:04:48 2022 No.20435731 >>20435700 Fair enough. thank you for helping me grasp the concept, but what is Nietzche if not a big mouth from which the actions of invisible hands are inspired?

Anonymous Sat May 28 13:05:52 2022 No.20435735
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>>20435730
Wagner on act 3 of Siegfried:

>Da treffen wir, wie die Hellenen in der dampfenden Erdspalte zu Delphi, auf den Mittelpunkt der grossen Welttragödie… Hier ist Alles erhabenes Grauen, nur in Räthseln ansprechbar. Seit jener Zeit, wo ich von der wundervollen Hohenschwangau-Woche nach München zurückkehrte, und bange Fragen über Unser Schicksal aufzuwerfen hatte, entstand mir, und verfolgt mich nun das Thema, das Uns sogleich beim Beginne dieses Aktes zu begrüssen hat, und Uns die Entscheidung, die letzte Frage, den letzten Willen des Weltengottes ankündigen soll.

>There we meet, like the Hellenes in the steaming chasm at Delphi, at the center of the great world tragedy... Here everything is sublime horror, only addressable in riddles. Since the time when I returned to Munich from the wonderful Hohenschwangau week and had to raise anxious questions about our fate, the theme has arisen and is now haunting me, which greets us immediately at the beginning of this act, and our decision, the last question, the last will of the world god is supposed to announce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOc6iZtukrs

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 13:17:13 2022 No.20435773 >>20435051 Even academics don’t understand the work anon, you’ll be fine.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 13:22:15 2022 No.20435789 >>20435652 >Nietzsche is guilty about it at all Are you saying he isn’t indebted or he doesn’t pretend he isn’t indebted?

Anonymous Sat May 28 13:25:09 2022 No.20435801

>>20435731
>what is Nietzche if not a big mouth from which the actions of invisible hands are inspired?
Sorry, I guess I was kind of vague there. By big mouths I meant people like all the Marxist revolutionaries of the 20th century who thought making a loud clamor and shaking everyone violently all at once was going to lead to dramatic change in the zeitgeist / dominant value system. By invisible hands I meant people who work quietly and diligently, take the time to learn and respect the current value system and how it works, and focus on honing themselves above all else.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 13:42:43 2022 No.20435872 >>20435801 Ah that's true. His mouth was big but his words were for the few and for the future. Sharp edges don't need as much force to cut through. Thank you for reminding me so gently.

Anonymous Sat May 28 14:27:59 2022 No.20436049
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>>20435050
>So basically, hear me out Reddit, this book, put together by a Roman council of Jew LARPers, is literally the divine truth and all you ever need. Abandon all your goyish practices, come to rabbi yeshua.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:29:19 2022 No.20436056 >>20435135 Fuck the Bible, fuck christniggers, fuck Jews, fuck Muslims, fuck your Jewish god, hang all christniggers, Abraham was a dumb nigger, I hate christniggers

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:36:20 2022 No.20436083 I know an Ubermench in real life, wins everything tall good looking women adore him. Makes me feel genetically inferior

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:37:03 2022 No.20436085 >>20435146 >>20436056 Literal retards. Please never read Nietzsche again.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:43:52 2022 No.20436109 >>20435031 I thought you need to read his other work to read it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:47:45 2022 No.20436133 unabridged Will to Power and this are his essential masterpieces

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 14:52:36 2022 No.20436154 >>20435038 based

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 16:22:38 2022 No.20436504 >>20435789 Whom are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 17:47:05 2022 No.20436872 >>20436049 he never said that (?)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 18:10:00 2022 No.20436964 File: 686 KB, 2048x3316, elisabeth_nietzsche.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20436133 Elisabeth was right.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 22:06:55 2022 No.20437931 >>20435031 The copy i have is full of archaic words Can you tell a good translation.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 22:09:27 2022 No.20437940 >>20435031 I've read multiple translations of Zarathustra's Gathas, but I have no interest in Nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 22:21:44 2022 No.20438000 >>20435109 Nobody here has actually read him

>>	Anonymous Sat May 28 22:22:45 2022 No.20438009 Why are there so many anti-semitic admirers of NIetzsche? He'd loathe all of you

Anonymous Sat May 28 22:27:05 2022 No.20438040

I didn't like it... I thought the writing was forced in a way that genuine religious texts (which I believe he was emulating) aren't. I thought the some of the metaphors were bad, borderline nonsensical. I really wanted to like it - maybe I should give it another chance? I only read a few dozen pages

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 03:48:16 2022 No.20439203 >>20437931 Hollingdale

Anonymous Sun May 29 08:55:25 2022 No.20440125

>>20438009
He just doesn’t like ressentiment or whatever. That applies to a lot of anti-semites but not all. You can be aware of Jewish power and corruption without being a little bitch about it. Just admit they excel in terms of in-group loyalty which has given them a level of power that allows them to exert their will upon the world. The cringe anti-semites are the ones saying “noooo Jews bad rejecting Jesus, Talmud says can kill non-Jews, bible says be good and submissive little boy” instead of just playing the power game also.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 09:35:00 2022 No.20440244 >>20435160 Example?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 09:43:22 2022 No.20440268 >>20438009 Did you read Genealogy of Morale?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 15:08:10 2022 No.20441484 >>20435031 it's just ok. relax.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 17:10:10 2022 No.20442208 Syphilis.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 29 17:21:54 2022 No.20442264 >>20439203 After reading Hollingdale, Common should be read.

Anonymous Sun May 29 18:48:31 2022 No.20442739

>>20435099
>>20435630
His account of the formation of objects does not really have a definitive answer, as he gave contradictory accounts, one being in favor of constructivism, the other elimitivism.

These are the finer details, so to speak, of his philosophy, but I would agree that he does not contradict himself on his core ideas.

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/lit/ - Literature