/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.2043429]

Writing a dark comedy about a young woman who's hopelessly in love with a pedophile. I wil be making extensive use of dramatic irony.

I would like a little feedback on the general plot.

[Dr. Seussicide (SLAF) No.2043432]

>>2043429
>dark comedy about a young woman who's hopelessly in love with a pedophile.

Unless you are female, don't. Men can't write a females perspective very well. Also, if you haven't felt love, don't write a love story, it will sound fake.

[Anonymous No.2043437]

>>2043429
>dark comedy about a young woman who's hopelessly in love with a pedophile.

Unless you are a pedophile, don't. Regular people can't write a pedophile's perspective very well. Also, if you've never fucked a child, don't write a story where ripe young anuses are invaded, it will sound fake.

[Caracalla !!S1oOkTjvsv2 No.2043438]

>>2043432
There have been successful examples of male writers writing female characters, Emma Bovary, Ruth and Janice from the early Rabbit, Runs, Nabokov's Lolita, Lucette and Ada, Joyce's Molly Bloom, off the top of my head. You may say this is top end literature or whatever but I think the gender divide is far from inaccessible to authors in general. Also, this whole love-is-unique thing is a little overplayed; most people have experienced obsession, infatuation, lust. Love's just an extension of those psychological tendencies, often with ostensibly more noble and admirable features.

>>2043429
I like the idea, OP. We had a case of paedophile seducing a nursery worker in the UK. Let me tell you it ended pretty nasty.

[Dr. Seussicide (SLAF) No.2043461]

>>2043438
Thanks to the News of The World being closed down, peodophiles will sleep easy in their beds from now on.

[Anonymous No.2043471]

Wow, OP. I actually like that idea tremendously.

If I can pry: what themes are involved here?

[Caracalla !!S1oOkTjvsv2 No.2043500]

>>2043461
They've only got the harmless hatred of the middle classes to bear now, via the Daily Express and the Daily Mail and not that I sympathize too much with paedophiles, but the world would be a wonderful place without that pair of ignorance purveyors.

[Dr. Seussicide (SLAF) No.2043521]

>>2043500
Alas with the YOUTH and IMMIGRANTS even without peadophiles those terrible, terrible publications will still be printing.

[Anonymous No.2043598]

>>2043438

I appreciate your input, I was originally thinking that i may be too racey for publishers. It obviously won't be too graphic but I want the reader to be repulsed as well as attracted to the character.

>>2043471
The objectivity of truth will be touched on, the love interest sees nothing wrong with his lifestyler. The decadence of late capitalism will also be touched upon, from a Marxist POV. There will also be a number of other themes ranging from existential and moral nihilism to Freudian themes centered around the protagonist and her father.

I also plan to have a number of allusions to the works of early Greek philosophers who were far more accepting of perversion.

[Anonymous No.2043618]

is this an original idea?

why would you post it on 4chan?

[Anonymous No.2043638]

>>2043598
Although it's inevitable, try not to harp on about innocence.

[Anonymous No.2043644]

>>2043638

I'll try to limit it obviously, but it's bound to come out once I get writer's block.

[Anonymous No.2043660]

[Anonymous No.2043661]

It's a good idea but could easily be botched.

If done the right way I have no doubt that a house would publish it. Considering you understand humour.

[Anonymous No.2043675]

It's I good idea, but if I was in your shoes I'd be careful of how repulsive it's going to be.

You don't want your book to sell only because pedophiles get off to it.

[Anonymous No.2043695]

>>2043675

Of course not.
I'll try to limit the more perverse material and the editor should sort the rest out for me.

[Anonymous No.2043719]

it sounds very post-post-modern

[Anonymous No.2043741]

OP is actually an old Russian living in America during the 1960's.

[Anonymous No.2043749]

>>2043741
Interestingly enough, I was convinced that OP is female for some reason.

[Anonymous No.2043810]

Hum-bert! Hum-bert! Hum-bert Humbert Humbert Humbert Humbert! Oh typesetter please fill the rest of the page with the name of Humbert.

))only a faithful wife could read that scrawl((

[Anonymous No.2043837]

>>2043741
>>2043749

I'm actually an American male from the 2010's.
But nice try.

I'm glad you guys all like the idea. I'll possibly post passages from the story as it progresses. I look forward to more input.

[Anonymous No.2043839]

>>2043837
I think that was a joke to Nabakov.

Probably should read Lolita if you haven't

Also penis

[Anonymous No.2043843]

>>2043839
Doesn't sound like OP understands Lolita

[Anonymous No.2043850]

OP, what is the story REALLY about?
What is the point, I should say.
I mean, you can write an ironic love story involving a pedophile, but why did you choose to?
Why is it meaningful? Why should I care?
That's what I'm asking, here.

[Anonymous No.2043853]

>>2043810
Oh god what have you done.
It's... I'm... my mind is full of fuck.

[Anonymous No.2043859]

>>2043853
Now reread Lolita from the perspective of Charlotte Haze.

Now reread Lolita from the perspective of Delores Haze.

Now reread Lolita from the perspective of "Annabel Leigh".

[Anonymous No.2043865]

>>2043839

I've read Lolita. My reply was in jest.

I thought it was more obvious.

>>2043850

Are you talking about themes?

If so see:

>>2043598

I saw it as a device to explore a number of themes as well as create a story more palatable to your casual reader. I also thought the plot was somewhat original and contained just the right amount of controversy.

[Anonymous No.2043873]

>mfw a fucking painting of Jeff Mangum

I recently downloaded ITAOTS after seeing oh so many threads concerning it on /mu/'s archive, and I loved it, but first an NMH video game and now a Jeff Mangum painting. This fandom is really surprising me.

[Anonymous No.2043878]

I love it, OP. Please entertain me with your mind.
How did the woman find out about the pedophilia?
Was the discovery before or after a relationship was established, or do they barely interact at all?
It seems like the pedophile is old, what does he do and how does he "practice" his pedophilia?
Are you hoping invoke disgust through stereotype, but then ease in the sympathy by slightly chipping at the stereotype?
Or are you portraying a totally new "pedophile", earning sympathy first and then revealing the dark secrets?

[Anonymous No.2043879]

>mfw a fucking painting of Jeff Mangum

I recently downloaded ITAOTS after seeing oh so many threads concerning it on /mu/'s archive, and I really loved it, but first an NMH video game and now a Jeff Mangum painting. This fandom is really surprising me.

[Anonymous No.2043886]

Lolita: revisited, WITH A TWIST

[Anonymous No.2043890]

>>2043886
OP Is M Night Shamwow

[Anonymous No.2044042]

If I see this in Barnes & Noble in a year I'm going to freak.

It's a better idea than 99% of the shit people post here.

[Anonymous No.2044049]

>>2043873
Dude, NMH was playing at the Gamestop in my local mall. It's not a fucking secret, you douche.

[Anonymous No.2044055]

>>2044049

They haven't been together for about 11 years so I doubt it.

[Anonymous No.2044070]

>>2043598
>The objectivity of truth will be touched on, the love interest sees nothing wrong with his lifestyler.
So is the pedophilia simply a stand in for an arbitrarily defined "evil" way of life?

>The decadence of late capitalism will also be touched upon, from a Marxist POV.
Are you read up on poshlost?

>There will also be a number of other themes ranging from existential and moral nihilism to Freudian themes centered around the protagonist and her father.
Good luck with that. Psychological stories are interesting, but you might want to look a little deeper than Freud, since your contemporary readers will practically take it as a joke if the main character is attracted to perverts because she has "daddy issues." Flesh it out and add layers to hide that.

>I also plan to have a number of allusions to the works of early Greek philosophers who were far more accepting of perversion.>The objectivity of truth will be touched on, the love interest sees nothing wrong with his lifestyle.
I LOVE IT. The invocation of the Classic viewpoint on lifestyles that have been subverted by modern (Christian) morals works as a fabulous statement of hypocrisy, when you note that the entire Christian intellectual tradition was Aristotelian. Normally, we might think of homosexuality here, but pedophilia is, I think, a rather more exciting example.

[Anonymous No.2044099]

>>2044055
You doubt what? That it was playing at my local gamestop? It was, man. Holland, 1945. I was surprised and amused. And since this is a fact, so is NMH not being a secret. One video of ITAOTS has 980,000 views on Youtube.

Not being together for 11 years means nothing. The Beatles broke up more than 40 years ago, didn't you know? Yes, I know The Beatles were the most popular band in the world, and NMH is no where near that, but a band being broken up doesn't matter when it comes to people listening to their music.

[Anonymous No.2044103]

>>2044055
>mfw I realize you thought I meant that the band itself was actually playing LIVE at Gamestop

What are you, retarded? Since when does Gamestop host concerts? What the fuck is the matter with you.

[Anonymous No.2044114]

>>2044103
>mfw you've been far more douchey and hostile in that exchange

Let me guess, you were an obscurist hipster, got called out for it, and now you itch for the chance to snap at someone for saying something that even vaguely resembles something you would have a year or two ago. Get over yourself faggot.

[Anonymous No.2044121]

>>2044114
I know I'm being an ass, but I don't listen to obscure music and I never did. My favorite band is Guns N' Roses, for fuck's sake. The nostalgia is heavy in me, man.

I just woke up and felt like being a dick on the internet. Sorry if it offended you, but who would claim that NMH was playing live at Gamestop?

[Anonymous No.2044128]

>>2044055
>>2044121
>>2044103

Stop derailing this thread.
You're all obviously being trolled by a 3rd party.

>>2044070

>So is the pedophilia simply a stand in for an arbitrarily defined "evil" way of life?

Basically, yes.

>Are you read up on poshlost?

Read up? Not exactly, but I'm aware of poshlost.

>Good luck with that. Psychological stories are interesting, but you might want to look a little deeper than Freud, since your contemporary readers will practically take it as a joke if the main character is attracted to perverts because she has "daddy issues." Flesh it out and add layers to hide that.

I was thinking that Freudian concepts were a bit too cliche. Perhaps I'll drizzle some Lacan on top. I'm definitely going to do more research before I finally put pen to paper.

>I LOVE IT. The invocation of the Classic viewpoint on lifestyles that have been subverted by modern (Christian) morals works as a fabulous statement of hypocrisy, when you note that the entire Christian intellectual tradition was Aristotelian. Normally, we might think of homosexuality here, but pedophilia is, I think, a rather more exciting example.

Thanks.
Are you a writer/editor by any chance? Or a professor?

[Anonymous No.2044137]

So you're re-writing Lolita to be more focused on Old Hayes.

Well, it's guaranteed to be more poorly written and less accomplished than "Lolita." I say, why not?

[Anonymous No.2044153]

>>2044128
See, I never understood that. If there's an off-topic discussion going on in a thread then at least the thread is being bumped, and others will post on topic if only just to feel superior to those being off-topic.

>you're being trolled
Oh my goodness! That means all possible conversation stemming from that first troll is void of any meaning at all and the participants cannot enjoy themselves in any manner! O I weep for this loss - Cruel fate!

Bump for OP.

[Anonymous No.2044162]

>>2044128

>So is the pedophilia simply a stand in for an arbitrarily defined "evil" way of life?

>Basically, yes.

That sounds pretty boring. This plot can have a lot going for it but as someone said. It's a good idea that can be botched pretty easily. Lolita also sort of put a stamp on doing pedophilia in novel form.

Dwell into how people are afraid of pedophiles,why, and where it comes from? Why exactly don't we try to help people overcome their sexual lust for little girls? Perhaps hypocrisy or perhaps being afraid of becoming one? That's an interesting read, but risks to put the writer in danger.

[Anonymous No.2044165]

>>2044137

You know nothing of my work.

But seriously, try reading the thread. Don't just be a dick for the sake of being a dick.

[Anonymous No.2044181]

>>2044162

People are scared of reality, unfortunately.

I think enough time has passed to revisit the topic in a modern context. The plot isn't similar to Lolita at all.

Remember, I want this to get published. I can't just dwell on the nature of the pedophile. There's much more that needs to be addressed.

[Anonymous No.2044240]

You got yourself a decent idea here OP. I just hope that you don't screw it up. Your themes are interesting and the general plot leaves a lot of room for humour. Maybe you'll be the next Tao Lin or something.

[Anonymous No.2044651]

The best thing about /Lolita/ was that the paedophilia wasn't evil. Lolita loved to get her cavity filled by Quilty's cousin, and Quilty. It was Humbert that Lolita couldn't stand—because she didn't want to fuck Humbert. She wanted Humbert to resist her advances and be her mother's husband.

Humbert's chief crime against Lolita (other than raping her, including raping her while ill), is incest far more than paedophilia.

In comparison your bland schematic work won't enlighten anyone. Even the old hag Hayes enjoyed getting fucked by her much older husband.

[Anonymous No.2044654]

>>2044055

Actually Jeff is making a comeback

wallofwords . com

[Anonymous No.2045186]

>>2044651

Why are you bringing up Lolita? Who here is trying to write Lolita?

OP outlined his/her themes and they seemed to touch upon some interesting topics. I don't think anyone here expects OP to become the next Nabokov, but you shouldn't just write something off.

[Anonymous No.2045214]

>>2044128
Good, it sounds like you're actually fairly aware of the caveats of writing this, after all. When it comes to the psychology of the story, I hope you'll develop your own ideas about the human mind and build your case for them with your story. It sounds like you already know how to get started here, so I suppose I'm heartened.
No, I'm not a writer or a professor—just a student of the culture and minds of Human Beings like the rest of us.

>>2044181
When you appreciate the grace and eloquence with which Lolita captured the zeitgeist of Nabokov's time, you understand what a "Modern context" really means.† I will never be able to walk into a classic roadside diner-motel without being overcome with emotion, for the remembrance of things that never happened. The place of the pedophile in society has changed so much even in the last 20 years (thanks to the advent of information technology) that a modern pedophile's story has little to no reason to resemble Lolita in the slightest. I hope that the plot of this story can stand up to all it has been tasked with by the premise. Will you be able to address the aforementioned subjects, and yet still write a story that isn't about a pedophile at all, but rather a young woman with her own issues and motivations? And will your story still, in the end, force the reader to question, to really, honestly think for himself, as I think you wish him to?

[Anonymous No.2045217]

>>2045214 (continued)
† I know as well as you do that your story really has nothing to do with Lolita, but I'm sure you understand why the comparisons are being drawn. Lolita, beyond its standing as a work of prose or a discourse on Nabokov's favorite subject, control, is a behemoth in the mind of any reader because of its disturbing subject matter. If your story is to share even a single element of that subject matter, it will be forced to stand alongside other stories with such powerful, disturbing premises. In these stories, it is often the premise that allows it to create such powerful associations in the mind of the reader.

[Anonymous No.2045225]

sounds like a good idea, but when you write you're gonna have to be completely open and ready to make your characters think say and do ANYTHING. If it is messed up to the point where a publisher or two wont publish it, then you've made an accurate representation and i would by that book for sure.

[Sunhawk !M9PhF5nIzs No.2045229]

Lolita is a great book. Some of the best word plays I've seen, and good overall prose as well.

[Anonymous No.2045280]

>>2045225

But you're an anon. The book should make the reader uncomfortable and question society/himself but it shouldn't make the reader so uncomfortable that it hurts sales. That's just my input, a lot of great writers have to live in lofts in Brooklyn because their books are too racey.

[Caracalla !!S1oOkTjvsv2 No.2045284]

>>2045229
You read it on mine and Sandwiches' recommendation.

And enjoyed it.

Yusssss

[Anonymous No.2045344]

Has anyone who ever asked for feedback on /lit/ ever been published by a major publishing house before?

[Anonymous No.2045350]

>>2045344
>Not being printed in Esquire and New Yorker every issue.
Losers

[Anonymous No.2045366]

Honestly OP, why?
Why would you spend so much time working on a novel that so few people will read? Think about some of the greatest writers of all time. I'm willing to bet that most people in the USA don't even know the name of Dos Passos. Why would you be any different? You'd slave over a typewriter to be ignored by a majority of your society? When people like Kim Kardashian are household names?

[Ayn Rand hates loli/futa No.2045374]

If you can challenge norms, you're bound to succeed. What made Lolita so controversial was not necessarily the "paedophilia" itself, but rather that Lolita was, for all intents and purposes, a sexually active, promiscuous young girl; an immature body with a more mature mind, even to the point where she could comprehend sex being used as a tool in the case of Humbert. That she could embrace her sexuality so young certainly flew in the face of our Western taboos/principles, but in doing so it ridiculed; to presume that everyone can and will conform to biological/majority-dictated norms (with respect to when they begin to experience sexual urges and other 'facts'/'laws') is nonsense. The simple fact is that so long as both parties are consenting, the law can't stop them (although in a somewhat related point, our modern day setting it can certainly punish); this very basic point is all that Lolita displayed, simple yet positively mind-blowing, even to the conditioned morals of the modern day.

tl;dr Challenge beliefs/morals/taboos, and you'll be noticed in the literary world.