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/lit/ - Literature

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20412261 No.20412261 [Reply] [Original]

O'Brien is wrong. Oceania will fall.
The Inner Party is so hyperfocused on the Outer Party that they've left the opportunity for someone in the Inner Party itself to destroy the country wide open. They fail to realize that material incentive isn't enough to keep all of them loyal forever. At some point, a member of the Inner Party or Thought Police will definitely rebel, whether motivated by inspiration, boredom, or something else.

>> No.20412262

>>20412261
Just shoot communists instead of arguing with them. They aren't people anyway.

>> No.20412269

Oceania is the ideal Nietzschean society.

>> No.20412286

>>20412262
Have you even read this book? Do you know what board you're on?

>> No.20412322

>>20412286
>uhhhh durrrrr did you even read the book predicting how socialism in the western world would doom the human race don't heckin insult the wholesome commies!
This is /lit/, maybe read something instead of getting your political ideology from trannies on twitter. Perhaps try a history book? Communism and other such ideologies pretend to offer a free ticket to riches to appeal to the lazy, but its always left totalitarianism and poverty wherever they've managed to get control.

>> No.20412350
File: 44 KB, 112x112, 1597542078287.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20412350

>If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.
As Marx has shown, class struggle eventually leads to the resolution of class antagonisms, if the Inner Party must maintain a manual control over those outside, and if those outside must rebel to ultimately realize their class interests, eventually the order will give way to the victory of one class that can resolve the antagonism, which are the proles.

>> No.20413819

>>20412261
>Oceania will fall.
Did you even read the fucking book? It literally won't.

>> No.20413854

>>20412261
There is no motive for the top to rebel

>> No.20413973

>>20413854
What about Operation Valkyrie, or Hitler’s own deputy deserting to negotiate a peace treaty? I know 1984’s Big Brother is symbolic leadership as opposed to a tangible figure but even the privileged "top" have a breaking point.

>> No.20413976

>>20412261
O'Brien was the protagonist

>> No.20413980

>>20413973
>What about Operation Valkyrie, or Hitler’s own deputy deserting to negotiate a peace treaty? I
that was a judeomasonic script, 1984 is after judeomasonry's final victory but before the completion of the rebis

>> No.20413998

>>20412350
>Marx has shown

>> No.20414001

>material incentive
The incentive is not material, its power. The inner party is rewarded by getting to make the rest of society suffer. They get to be the boot

>> No.20414005

>>20413973
>>20413973
I fail to see the relevance. Being a higher up in a losing war with a failing economy for a failed eugenics project doesn’t exactly scream no motive.

Maybe you think there actually is a war??? There isn’t, it’s a meme to keep the people engaged and enslaved.

But i kind of see your point, IF someone fucks up it fails, to no fault of O’brien.

>> No.20414008

>>20414005
>Maybe you think there actually is a war??? There isn’t, it’s a meme to keep the people engaged and enslaved.
no one seems to actually get vaporized either. Winston didn't.

>> No.20414084

>>20414008
winston clearly knows the capability for the party to wipe anybody from history though, then there’s the three men he remembers and destroys a photograph of, the old man julia mentions, never mind winston’s own family.
in my opinion the fact he is let go is because he really has been broken and changed his fundamental beliefs. it’s an ending of sheer bleakness

>> No.20414128

>>20414008
Exactly, that would be a waste of resources. They don’t need to disappear you.

>> No.20414146

>>20414128
Comrade Ogilvy did not exist, but there is no evidence Comrade Withers ever existed either

>> No.20414174

>>20414146
There was nothing to imply that Winston got the same treatment. Both him and Julia were alive and «free» no?
Why delete the trace of someone that is physically there?

>> No.20414277

>>20413854
It doesn’t need to be everyone, just a few people. At the end of the day, they’re still only humans. They might be more ambitious than everyone else in the Inner Party, more empathetic, or maybe they’re fans of pre-war literature dissatisfied with the regression of entertainment

>> No.20414374

I thought the idea of newspeak was stupid considering they only force it upon Party members and not proles. If Party members have an extremely limited vocabulary then the proles would be able to discuss a possible revolution and the Party wouldn't even know what they were saying.

>> No.20414474

>>20414374
did you read the book? the proles are pretty much already at "BIX NOOD, MUH DICK"

>> No.20414490

>>20414374
Proles are nonwhite masses in the book

>> No.20414954

>>20414490
Does Orwell write non-white or anything close to that in the book?
When I read this book I assumed everyone was white because it was England and I was young and still assumed England was a white country

>> No.20415008

>>20414954
The proles in 1984 are the White British working class Orwell had written extensively about in The Road to Wigan Pier and Down and Out in Paris and London, that anon is just being a faggot. As for Oceania falling, Orwell clearly thought it eventually would because of the working class, just as his hopes for democratic socialism rode on them in real life. Remember, "the future, I think, lies with the proles."

>> No.20415464

>>20412261
Too bad the Inner Party is being watched as well. They can't turn off their telescreens for 30 minutes. They're all playing a big Prisoner's Dilemma game and anyone who shows the slightest bit of changing society gets outed.

>> No.20415515
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20415515

>>20412261
Given enough time economic factors would probably fracture the Oceanic empire

>> No.20415599
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20415599

> Oceania comprises Britain, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and the Americas
what happened to the Spanish and Portuguese speakers in Central and South America? do they have to speak Newspeak ?

>> No.20415610

>>20415515
what if everything was too carefully engineered because the Party/managers of the the Oceania/Eurasia/Eastasia "conflict" were sitting on compound interest dating back to Akkad?

>> No.20415783

>>20415599
Oceania just consists of the UK, they only say they control more to instill a sense of patriotism.