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/lit/ - Literature


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20403579 No.20403579 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.20403599
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20403599

Canned food is before you

>> No.20403603

Primus pro linguam latinam

>> No.20403628

Since OP is a retard
https://mega dot nz/#F!9o4QEIIK!P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

>> No.20403634

https://mega.nz/#F!9o4QEIIK!P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

>> No.20403739
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20403739

Do you guys like classical architecture?

>> No.20403895

>>20403739
ναί

>> No.20403899

>>20403739
I once went to museum and under the statues there was a big disclaimer that actually they were coloured and their whiteness was misappropriated by the far right and so on lol

>> No.20403961
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20403961

>>20403899
Soon all ancient sculptures will be painted black, and any ones they can't paint will be destroyed

>> No.20404266

>>20403579
wow, I am learning Latin after Greek and the verb system is so easy. If you memorize like 10 rules of formation and the usual endings, in about a week you can easily conjugate any verb going from its principle parts.

>> No.20404586
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20404586

Beginner here, today's lesson was 'Ablative of time', how close is my translation of 'They all fled from the province in the first year of the war.'?

>Omnes primo anno belli ex provincia fugiebant.

I hope this book runs out of ablatives soon.

>> No.20404756

>>20404586
looks fine, though the perfect maybe works better

>> No.20404892

>>20403899
It sounds like bullshit but you never know nowadays. Where was it?

>> No.20404896

>>20404892
UK, university city

>> No.20404912

>>20404896
Sadly, I can believe it.
>>20403961
They already started to do so with classical literature, some passages are deliberately left out by modern publishers. If it hasn't become a serious trend already, it's because nowadays nobody reads.

>> No.20404935

What where they thinking when they made this?

>> No.20404943
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20404943

Vita Karoli Magni by Einhard seems a fine little work for students of Latin, very flowing and understandable classical prose imho, I recommend it for beginners-intermediate learners who want to get their teeth in real but not overwhelming Latin if you have a taste for medieval shenanigans

>> No.20404948

>>20404586
>runs out of ablatives
you are in for a surprise, ablative is the everything case

>> No.20405012

>>20404943
Thanks for the recommendation. I just started the gospel of Matthew with the same intent (real but not overwhelming Latin as you said).

>> No.20405144

>>20405138
One more reason why Loeb is inferior to OCT

>> No.20405172

>>20404912
They've done that for a very long time. Every culture does it. In the Loebs, they leave out sex scenes or translate Greek ones into Latin.

>>20403899
I know the woman who is responsible for that trend. She is really stupid and annoying, as you would expect. I don't think the trend of leftism will last for much longer in Classics. We're facing an inflationary depression, not just stagflation. The economic turmoil will force a reality check on lots of things, not just economic things.

>> No.20405179
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20405179

>>20405172
Then it'll be our turn bros to take over humanities. So learn your Latin.

>> No.20405207

>>20405172
I intend to make a really graphic and obscene translation of Martial, adding in notes explaining the etymology of all the Latin obscenities.

>> No.20405212

>>20404892
all the marble was painted, bright reds and blues usually, yellow and green sometimes
theres some pigment that can still be detected today
as far as the white marble appropriated, thats seems dumb

>> No.20405228

>>20405172
Damn it, do they really? I’ve been learning Greek and slowly buying Loebs. But I’d like to get the texts unfiltered, sex scenes and all.

>> No.20405232

>>20405179
>telling middle aged NEETs to learn latin in the hopes that they become academics and influence the general thrust of an entire field

>> No.20405257

>>20405179
>>20405232
>Not believing in the inevitable rise of a formerly disaffected, self-educated supreme NEET warrior-poet junta that wars against and finally purges the insidious, culture destroying ((academic)) and ((corporate)) ruling elite

>> No.20405283

>>20405232
compared to the willfully retarded who are currently in the field, yes

>> No.20405305

>>20405232
>of an entire field
You mean of the entire galaxy

>> No.20405310

>>20405257
At the very least it could create a niche movement. I do believe /lit/ will give birth to at least a handful of big intellectuals.

>> No.20405316

>>20405310
>I do believe /lit/ will give birth to at least a handful of big intellectuals
I agree, this is probably an inevitability.
Question is, will we ever know who or will they be smart enough to not mention us?

>> No.20405491
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20405491

>>20404948
>ablative of resignation

>>20404756
>the perfect maybe works better

Whys that Anon?

>> No.20405603

>>20405491
the english phrase('fled') implies a single completed action in the past, imperfect works better for a repeated or ongoing thing with respect to the context, e.g, from Caesar
>Id cum animadvertisset P. Crassus adulescens, qui equitatui praeerat, quod expeditior erat quam ii qui inter aciem versabantur(imperfect), tertiam aciem laborantibus nostris subsidio misit(perfect).
>On observing which, Publius Crassus, a young man, who commanded the cavalry—as he was more disengaged than those who were employed in the fight—sent the third line as a relief to our men who were in distress.
notice the imperfect versabantur is used to express something that was going on(were employed), while the perfect misit(sent) expresses a single action completed in the past

>> No.20405631

>>20405316
I'm sure they won't mention, but I'm also sure we'll know anyway

>> No.20405650

>>20405603
Good explanation, thanks.

>> No.20405675

>>20405228
Yep. From Wikipedia:
>Since then scores of new titles have been added, and the earliest translations have been revised several times. In recent years, this has included the removal of bowdlerization from earlier editions, which often reversed the gender of the subjects of romantic interest to disguise homosexual references or (in the case of early editions of Longus's Daphnis and Chloe) translated sexually explicit passages from the Ancient Greek into Latin, rather than English.[3]
This quote indicates that anon was likely talking out of his ass, and if he wasn't, then he is talking only about a small subsection of classics publishing.

>> No.20405732

>>20405310
that's me :)

>> No.20405779

>>20405144
what was the original post?

>> No.20405861

how do you lads type in greek?

>> No.20405864

https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/decl.html
Anything like this for Greek?

>> No.20405870

>>20405861
switch keyboard layout using a key combo when I need it, I'm on Linux though
setxkbmap -layout "en,gr" -variant ",polytonic" -option "compose:menu,grp:win_space_toggle"
does the trick with win+space
I'm sure there's something similar on windows

>> No.20405878

>>20405861
https://keyman.com/keyboards/greekclassical

Read the documentation for using accents/breathings etc
It'll be second nature after using it for a while

>> No.20405903

>>20404896
cambridge, i assume?

>> No.20405927

>>20405861
A catalan program made like 10 years ago
https://euclides-gp.softonic.com/

>> No.20405957

Hey guys. I’m considering doing a Dphil at cost (overseas) in the UK, but also debating doing a phd here in America. The former would cost 130k all in for three years: the latter would cost nothing, but last 6-7 years. Could anyone advise on whether it’s a bad idea to go with the UK route? Is there a stigma against self-funding? The way I see it, I can make back that 130k in like a year as a programmer (that’s my day job). Or, if I get an academic job by some miracle, I can make it back by saving money (most starting professorships in the US tenure track are nearing six figures at least). To be specific, we are comparing the Columbia PHd with the Oxford Dphil.

Please any information at all welcome from people currently in the field / have read threads on this.

>> No.20406077

>>20405903
Yeah lol

>> No.20406131

>>20406077
thought so - are you a student at cambridge? re the statues i think it is largely virtue signalling but they were actually all probably painted. i don't doubt that it looked much better than some of the reconstructions people have come out with though. i do wish i could see an ancient city in full bloom in the flesh

>> No.20406551

How hard is Theocritus to read? I'm finishing my second semester of Greek, and he's the author I'm most interested in reading, but I don't know if I'll be ready to read him yet. I'm already very familiar with Latin poetry.

>> No.20406584

>>20405957
Why do you even want to get one in the first place? Your entire post was basically about money and name-dropping prestigious institutions. If you have 130k and the time to blow the only person stopping you is yourself.

>> No.20406791

>>20406551
As hard as I am when I PENETRATE your mom's vagina

>> No.20407162

>>20404935
三 but thinner

>> No.20407838

I'm the Ethionon, and Ge'ez is killing me. I think I'm going to have to quit. I didn't even register yet because the system is messed up, so I could easily drop without owing any money. I am so exhausted. One of the only things keeping me going is being the only Ge'ez reader in my state. I've seen Ethiopians in my town, but none of them would know Ge'ez because it is liturgical. There are no Ethiopian or Eritrean churches here yet. I, a white man, should be the first. But week 2 has yet to begin, and I am so exhausted.

>> No.20407851

I need to learn Latin in two weeks so that a girl I'm meeting doesn't realize I'm full of shit. Any advice?

>> No.20407871

>>20407851
memorize passages from the Aeneid, Ovid and Catullus. That will be enough

>> No.20407901

>>20407871
Awesome idea thank you

>> No.20407992

>>20407838
Do you know any other Semitic or Afro-Asiatic languages?

>> No.20407996

>>20407871
>Catullus
He's going to get slapped

>> No.20407997

Salve
Quod pensum faces? Mea lingua latina mala est. Debeo superior fieri.
Gratias ago

>> No.20408003
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20408003

>>20407997
Salve, ursus magnus sum.

>> No.20408024
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20408024

greek bros, what does ἐπί mean?

>> No.20408185

>>20408003
Ita
urso magnum es, sed tu quaestionem mei non respondebas. Quod exercitationes debeo faciere discitum latinam bona?

>> No.20408187

>>20408185
Urso magno*

>> No.20408217

>>20408185
Latin: An Intensive Course.

>> No.20408220

>>20408187
>>20408185
Why urso magno instead of ursus magnus and respondebas instead of respondisti? Also I believe quod should be quae (quae exercitationes), facere, latinitatem bonam I don't know if you can use the supine like that or even if disco actually has a supine form.

>> No.20408386

>>20404266
What are the Rules?

>> No.20408444

>>20408220
>>20408220
>Why urso magno instead of ursus magnus
It's a calque from my native language. We express such things using the instrumental. Many mistakes were made that way. stuff pushed into the ablative seems alright to me .
>respondebas instead of respondisti?
Big dumb on my part
>quod should be quae
Another big dumb
>supine
I'll Defend this one. Supine is used to express purpouse similarly to English infinitive.
What excersises shoud I (debeo) do (facere) to learn (supine)
But you are right about disco not having one lmao

>> No.20408533

>>20408444
>I'll Defend this one. Supine is used to express purpouse similarly to English infinitive.
Yes, you are probably right. But I believe to remember I've read it is used only with verbs of movement so I'm not sure. I also don't know if disco is considered defective or its supine is simply not attested. I hope other anons would be able to help us with these two questions.

>> No.20408535

>>20408533
>I've read it is used only with verbs of movement
I did not know that

>> No.20408604
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20408604

>>20408533
>I believe to remember I've read it is used only with verbs of movement
Correct https://youtu.be/b4yx9VHn9Y8
>I also don't know if disco is considered defective or its supine is simply not attested.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discitum#Latin

>> No.20408635

>>20408604
Thanks, Anon. About disco, I've found a few dictionaries that doesn't show the supine form
>http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0060:entry=disco
>https://www.dizionario-latino.com/dizionario-latino-flessione.php?lemma=DISCO100
and other that does it
>http://micmap.org/dicfro/search/gaffiot/disco
Does someone knows the reason of this?

>> No.20408747 [DELETED] 

>>20407992
Yes, Hebrew and Aramaic. I'd be dead in an instant if I didn't.

>> No.20408750
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20408750

>>20407992
Yes, Hebrew and Aramaic. I'd be dead in an instant if I didn't.

>> No.20409023

>>20408024
you're better off looking a dictionary, it has many meanings, though starting from the general sense of "over/above"
https://lsj.gr/wiki/%E1%BC%90%CF%80%CE%AF

>> No.20409585

bumpum

>> No.20410133

chapter 18 of llpsi is too fucking long

>> No.20410347
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20410347

>just started LLPSI
>first 3 chapters really easy introduction of new concepts and vocabulary
>chapter 4 suddenly really difficult to understand for some parts

>> No.20410363

>>20410133
>>20410347
get filtered by based orberg

>> No.20410414

>>20410347
anon stultus discipulus est et mater sua est crassa

>> No.20410440

>>20410133
update: finally done working through it god bless

>> No.20410499

>>20410440
Good job anon.

>> No.20410551

>>20405957
>paying for a PhD

Do not do this.

>> No.20410555
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20410555

This is laughably bad. First I thought the voice actors were just theatre kids fucking around but they are actual Cambridge classics professors and linguists.
The thought of someone learning to speak and subvocalise from this is both hilarious and depressing.

>> No.20410572

>>20410133
Wait for Roma Aeterna, where chapters are 300+ lines long.

>> No.20410587

>>20410551

Why not if it’s twice as fast? 90% chance I don’t stay in classics too lol.

>> No.20410621

>>20410572
no worries i won't go through roma aeterna

>> No.20410738

>About this time, Elwood the quaker, being recommended to Milton, now blind, as one who would read Latin to him, for the advantage of his conversation, attended him every afternoon, except on Sundays.
>Milton, who, in his letter to Hartlib, had declared, that to read Latin with an English mouth is as ill a hearing as Low French, required that Elwood should learn and practise the Italian pronunciation
anglobros...

>> No.20410840

>>20410555
Dropping in to plug a great and underrated channel I came across recently that aims to provide comprehensible input in Ancient Greek: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x4c_LXcesNQ

Ranieri’s greek stuff isn’t horrible, but it’s nowhere near as robust or comprehensive as his Latin, and you can tell he’s not as comfortable with it yet.

>> No.20411281

>>20410840
pretty good stuff, guess they are using the Erasmian pronunciation

>> No.20411353
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20411353

>>20403739
Architecturam antiquam amo, sed aestimo architecturam resuscitatam ex XIX centum cordem carere. Cogito bene de aedificatores antiquis et sui imitatores derideo.

>> No.20411447

>>20410587
It isn't twice as fast. Many people who don't have to do course work take even longer to complete their degree and take courses anyway. I have a Turkish friend who had the choice to study Classics in America or Europe, and he chose America for that reason.

>> No.20411457

>>20410551
10000000% this
you will never pay it off, and your CV will imply that you had to pay it yourself which is effectively a death knell on ever being in academia
a fellowship, assistantship, or teaching position all show up on the CV, and a fellowship (or scholarship) can also include dollar amount. it implies that you are good enough at classics that someone is already willing to pay you money to do it
if you go for oxbridge as an intl student, either ensure that you can get external funding (which proves the same things) or stay stateside

>> No.20411497

about 3/4 the way through llpsi -- what latin poetry around this level is there that i could read?

>> No.20411512

>>20411497
imo the “simplest” latin poetry is elegiac couplet

>> No.20412153

No QTDTOT so I'm asking here. What English edition of "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" should I get?

>> No.20412379

>>20412153
Just watch the anime, bro.

>> No.20412612

>>20410414
Mater tua tam crassa est quia facilius saltare quam circumire ea.

>> No.20412620

>>20410572
Do you people recommend it? I started with the New Testament after famrom and it's pretty comfy so far. Will the jump to classical authors still be too hard?

>> No.20412684

>>20410840
>no particles
>English word order
trash

>> No.20412688

>>20411353
Sed Artes Renascentiae etiam imitatio vel aemulatio Antiquitatis Classicae sunt, et istae plenae animae spiritusque sunt.

>> No.20412715

>>20403739
Who doesn't

>> No.20412892

>>20411353
You would probably enjoy Spengler's remarks on Goethe in the first chapter (or so, I can't remember exactly) of his Decline.

>> No.20412908

>>20412684
>criticizing lack of greek particles
By the gods! Denniston, is that you?

>> No.20412916

>>20411497
I finished LLSPI a long time ago, and spent a fair amount of time grinding through Catullus and Ovid. And I still don't understand poetry at all.

LLPSI will show you more understandable bits, but I still don't understand the difference between prose and poetry. I just can't 'hear' syllable length at all. As far as I can tell, poetry is just prose with deliberately obfuscated word order.

>> No.20412937 [DELETED] 
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20412937

>>20412612
>quia
Is this correct? Shouldn't be ut?

>> No.20412949

>>20412612
>quia
Is this correct? Shouldn't it be ut?

>> No.20413001

>>20412949
nvm I think I found it
>https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposizione_consecutiva_latina
>Mater tua tam crassa est ut facilius saltare quam circumire ea sit (subiunctivum)

>> No.20413017

>>20413001
Your mother is so fat that it is easier to jump over her than go around?

>> No.20413039

>>20413017
Ita.
But I'm not sure if i wrote it correctly.

>> No.20413045

>>20410840
Decent channel for beginners but the pronunciation of that Rogelio guy has many of the same problems as the Speaking Greek CD. It's a shame that no other youtuber has adopted Podium Arts' style while memes like the "Ranieri pronounciation" or whatever gets shilled.

>> No.20413421
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20413421

>>20412688
Populi renascenti multas rem de mundo antiquo nescivisse. Aedificatores saepe templa medievales simulabant, propter illa sibi vetera videbat. Cum libris Vitruvi et consuetidinibus medievalibus Laborabant. Credo naturam veram clave ut arte bonis esse et architectura neoclasica veram non orta esse. Similiter cogito de neogothica, neorenascentia et neobaroco arte. Non amo ea.
>>20412688
Interestig
I'll check if my library has Sprangler

>> No.20413427

>>20413421
>Interestig
>I'll check if my library has Sprangler
It was meant for >>20412892

>> No.20413479

>>20407838
The first to be wiped out. Roma delenda est.

>> No.20413621

>Ex his finibus omnes principes Delphos fugerant,

Kinda awkward to translate this literally so it feels like I either have to drop 'out of this territory' or get more of the feel of it by going with

>all the chiefs had fled from the territory of Delphi

Must be a pain in the ass to think about this for translating a whole book.

>> No.20413637
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20413637

>>20413421
Tibi consentio, simplex imitatio infecunda est. Sed mera novitas superstitione moderna est et sine virtute, ut opinione mea est. Aemulatio antiquorum sine dignitate non puto.

>> No.20413642

>>20413621
That's why good translators are important... I'm not even able to translate from English to my native language without making it sound weird.

>> No.20413674

>>20413621
Delphos is accusative plural, meaning "to Delphi". There are some cities and places that are always in plural, mostly Greek ones (Athens, Delphi, Sardis).

>> No.20413734

>>20405861
windows 10 has the option to add greek keyboard, including polytonic greek, which wasn't possible in windows 7. so by simply pressing alt shift you can start typing ancient greek with accents etc

>> No.20413794

>>20412916
>>20412916
>poetry is just prose with deliberately obfuscated word order

No. Pound says-
>...there are three 'kinds of poetry': MELOPOEIA, wherein the words are charged, over and above their
plain meaning, with some musical property, which directs the bearing
or trend of that meaning. PHANOPOEIA, which is a casting of images upon the visual imagination. LOGOPOEIA, 'the dance of the intellect among words', that is to say, it employs words not only for their direct meaning, but it takes count in a special way of habits of usage, of the context we expect to find with the word, its usual concomitants, of its known acceptances, and of ironical play. It holds the aesthetic content which is peculiarly the domain of verbal manifestation, and cannot possibly be contained in plastic or in music. It is the latest come, and perhaps most tricky and undependable mode.

>> No.20413795

>>20412916
>>20412916
>poetry is just prose with deliberately obfuscated word order

No. Pound says-
>...there are three 'kinds of poetry': MELOPOEIA, wherein the words are charged, over and above their
plain meaning, with some musical property, which directs the bearing or trend of that meaning. PHANOPOEIA, which is a casting of images upon the visual imagination. LOGOPOEIA, 'the dance of the intellect among words', that is to say, it employs words not only for their direct meaning, but it takes count in a special way of habits of usage, of the context we expect to find with the word, its usual concomitants, of its known acceptances, and of ironical play. It holds the aesthetic content which is peculiarly the domain of verbal manifestation, and cannot possibly be contained in plastic or in music. It is the latest come, and perhaps most tricky and undependable mode.

>> No.20413827

This is the highest Latin test.
If you can read this this without any mental thought behind it then you are fluent in Latin.

Ab hoc igitur genere largitionis, ut aliis detur, aliis auferatur, aberunt ii, qui rem publicam tuebuntur, inprimisque operam dabunt, ut iuris et iudiciorum aequitate suum quisque teneat et neque tenuiores propter humilitatem circumveniantur neque locupletibus ad sua vel tenenda vel recuperanda obsit invidia, praeterea, quibuscumque rebus vel belli vel domi poterunt, rem publicam augeant imperio, agris, vectigalibus.

>> No.20414108

>>20405310
>I do believe /lit/ will give birth to at least a handful of big intellectuals.
Just wait till they release my diary anon

>> No.20414320

>>20414108
Manifestos don't count.

>> No.20414494

I don't believe that normal language study techniques are optimal for learning Greek and Latin. All you have to learn is to read. You don't need to speak, listen, or write it ever. So, don't waste time practicing that. Just translate, translate, translate.

>> No.20414516
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20414516

>>20413827

>> No.20414526

>>20414494
>not watching anime dubbed in Latin
ngmi

>> No.20414740
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20414740

>>20413827
I got slightly filtered initially by that use of aberunt, otherwise I read it relatively fluently

>> No.20414774

>>20414494
That's not exactly new.
You don't even need to write.

>> No.20414784

>>20414526
I wish such things existed.

>> No.20415004

>>20414494
>Just translate, translate, translate.
sigh you were so close
try again bro

>> No.20415042

>>20415004
Not the same "bro" but I'll try
>Just read, read, read.

>> No.20415059

>>20415042
ye that's 95% of the way there

>> No.20415195

Classical Latin is the Classical Chinese of Europe
Because you don't read Classical authors you learn what they say. Even Romans weren't able to read them properly they just had to memorise the meanings of the text.

>> No.20415211

>>20415195
>>165223027

>> No.20415283

>>20415211
?

>> No.20416002

there's an oxford ancient greek dictionary in the window of my local charity shop
will go and buy it when it's next open

>> No.20416053
File: 39 KB, 330x500, 51CIWhv3PhL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20416053

as for me? it's harrius potter.

>> No.20416054

>>20416002
you don't need to buy a dictionary when there's lsj.gr
unless you want to be some kind of erudite no-electronics-for-anything guy.

>> No.20416082

>>20416053
Is there a pdf for the latin version of Harry Potter? I'm curious what it's like

>> No.20416091

>>20416054
The internet is dying, buy all the physical books you can get your hands on

>> No.20416096

>>20416091
>The internet is dying
elaborate

>> No.20416100

>>20416054
I mean, it's a pound and it can't hurt to have a physical one

>> No.20416109
File: 275 KB, 734x940, harrius.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20416109

>>20416082
its on libgen

>> No.20416120

>>20415042
>>20415059
If you can read without translating then you don't need to read any more. Useless advice

>> No.20416135

>>20416096
>search engines no longer provide useful information
>wikipedia isn't even trying to pretend to be an honest site anymore

It's a combination of removing information, and distorting what information remains.
It's status as the great compendium of human knowledge is dead

>> No.20416138

>>20416120
lol

>> No.20416277

>>20416120
I can read my own native language without translating but I can still learn vocabulary and style from reading good authors. You're ngmi QED

>> No.20416404

another day, another LLPSI chapter

I am inpooting

>> No.20416416

>>20416404
ego item

>> No.20417815

Bumpus

>> No.20417908 [DELETED] 

>>20416404
If you're not studying grammar as well, you might as well just be looking at bilingual parallel texts and pretend you understand Latin because you can read the equivalent sentences in the English translation too.

>> No.20417964
File: 42 KB, 500x500, artworks-zfQLKaxa6u0DyvHd-2xVi7g-t500x500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20417964

>>20416109
Why is it 17MB for a text file

>> No.20418095

>>20416082
>>20417964
Out of the available Latin corpus there are hundreds of thousands of pages full of insight into historical, political, geographical, scientific, artistic, mathematical and philosophical matters and you want to read a translated Harry Potter. Waste of time and effort.

>> No.20418214

>>20418095
It could be worse - he could be reading the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible instead.

>> No.20418251

>>20418214
I feel attacked. I know it's translation-ese, but it's easy and fun. Things are usually simplified in translation, and the original text it simple enough anyway.

>> No.20418285

>>20418251
I mean the Vulgate, not Harry Potter. I'm not that anon

>> No.20418368

>>20414494
>You don't need to speak
>Implying I don't wanna know how it sounds

>> No.20418396

Is there some anon fluent in ancient greek here?

>> No.20418397

>>20416120
Have you ever learnt a second language? I don't translate while reading or listening English but reading stuff like Shakespeare is still difficult for me. What should I do, since I "don't need to read" anymore?

>> No.20418402

>>20418214
One of those books whose translation has been historically more important than the original.

>> No.20418794

>>20408750
I was about to say. That seemed random as fuck that you were learning Ethiopic by itself.

>> No.20418800

>>20410347
4 is not hard. Speed bumps are 8 & 12/13. Read a grammar book with it like Wheelock or Moreland & Fleischer.

>> No.20418803
File: 56 KB, 656x679, 9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20418803

λαμβανω ἡ τροφή και καλω πρὀς των αιλουρων

>> No.20418806

>>20410363
Stop praying on other people's downfall. That negative energy is going to come back around.

>> No.20418854

Don't study while tired or you'll try to write that Cassivellaunus, chief of the 'Britains' sent legs to Caesar.

>> No.20419475

>>20418095
people read Harry Potter in their target language mostly because they are generally already familiar with the story so that helps a lot learning in context, plus it's available in countless languages
not recommending it but I can see why a beginner may use it

>> No.20419513

>>20419475
If only Virgil, Ovid, Horace, Cicero, and Catullus were available in countless languages, if only one could read them and become familiar with their stories

>> No.20419535

>>20419513
they probably don't want to spoil themselves the fun of reading them in Latin for the first time, while Harry potter is probably something they know even just from the movies

>> No.20420430

Vulgate Latin is better than Classical Latin

>> No.20420454

>>20420430
temet iugula stulte

>> No.20420756
File: 204 KB, 1332x1332, 35y6u4jyr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20420756

ALL OF GAUL IS DIVIDED INTO TREE PARTIES!

>> No.20420862

LLPSIniggas be like im learning Latin to read YA in barbarian Latin

>> No.20420918
File: 73 KB, 400x617, Xenophon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20420918

DARIUS AND PARYSATIS HAD TWO SONS BORN TO THEM, OF WHOM THE ELDER WAS ARTAXERXES AND THE YOUNGER CYRUS

>> No.20421531

Translation Challenge, shamelessly stolen from /lang/
>Easy
Death is a part of life; you cannot escape it.
Eat healthy and you might live longer
A person can die at any point in time; you cannot foresee it

>Medium
Scientists have for ages been looking for different ways to combat and reverse aging in order to achieve immortality.
The reason as to why we age and eventually die is because of celluar aging. The more our cells divide and multiply, the weaker they get.

>Hard
The personification of death has been portrayed in numerous folklores and mythologies. The most popular personification of death, at least in the west, is the Grim Reaper, who is often depicted as a berobed, scythe-wielding human skeleton. The Grim Reaper uses his scythe to cause death to their victims by collecting their soul.

>> No.20421557

translating into ancient languages is blasphemy

>> No.20421587

>>20421557
Writing Latin poetry is based

>> No.20421830

chapter 19 and llpsi finally showed me the past tense that's it i can drop this now and read actual latin let's goooo

>> No.20421842

>>20421557
agreed
writing original content in latin is 10/10
into greek is a bit more pretentious desu, but who are we to talk about pretension?

>> No.20421906

>>20421531
μέρος τοῦ ζῆν ὁ θάνατος, οὐκ ὑπάρχει φυγή
ὑγιῶς ἔσθιε καὶ ἴσως μαχρὸν ζήσεις
κινδυνεύει ποτ' ἀνθρώπῳ θανεῖν· οὐκ ἔξεστι προμαντεύεσθαι

οἱ σοφώτατοι πολὺν ἤδη χρόνον ἀνασκοποῦσιν ὅπως διαμάχεσθαι τῷ γηράσκειν καὶ αὐτὸ ἀναστρέφειν ἵνα ἀθάνατοι γιγνώμεθα ἅπαντες
ἡ τοῦ γηράσκειν αἰτία καὶ τοῦ θανεῖν τὸ τῶν κυτταρίων γηράσκειν· τοσούτῳ μᾶλλον τέμνονται τὰ κυττάρια τὰ ἡμῶν καὶ αὐξάνονται, τοσῷδε μᾶλλον ἀσθενήσουσιν

>> No.20422644

I just finished Latin for Beginners. Now how many tens of thousands of pages of Latin prose will I have to read before I have no problem reading anything else in Latin?

>> No.20422931

>>20422644
>I just finished Latin for Beginners
Read D'ooge's following books. They are all in the public domain on Archive dot org.

>Colloquia Latina
https://archive.org/details/colloquialatinaa00doog
>Easy Latin for Sight Reading
https://archive.org/details/easylatinforsigh00doogrich
>Viri Romae
https://archive.org/details/selectionsfromur00lhom
>Second year Latin
https://archive.org/details/secondyearlatin00greegoog
>Latin Composition
https://archive.org/details/latincompositio01doog

Good luck man. Also check out popular stuff like Aesops Fables & Fabulae Faciles. Easy authors to start would be people like Eutropius & Phaedrus.

>> No.20422940

>>20421830
>chapter 19 and llpsi finally showed me the past tense that's it i can drop this now and read actual latin let's goooo
Could have just used a grammar primer and learned this in like chapter 4 lmao.

Btw I'm using Orberg too (with other books). But I knew all my tenses before I even touched this book. Saved me such a headache judging by how late some basic stuff is introduced in this thing.

>> No.20422944

>>20420430
Then learn Italian or Spanish instead.

>> No.20423823

Bump

>> No.20424718

>>20422944
Già fatto

>> No.20424902

>>20421531
>Translation Challenge, shamelessly stolen from /lang/
Aemulatio translationis, impudice abrepta ab /ling/
>>Easy
Facile
>Death is a part of life; you cannot escape it.
Mors est pars vitae, ab ea fugere non potes.
>Eat healthy and you might live longer
Ede sane, et forte viveres longius.
>A person can die at any point in time; you cannot foresee it
Quicumque moriatur quandocumque; praevidere id non potes.
>>Medium
:v

>> No.20424972

I'm a native spanish speaker and recently picked up LLPSI, while I like the method I find that the further I progress the harder it becomes and I find myself making guesses as to why some cases are used over others. I'm looking for a more traditional aproach to latin to learn the basics of grammar and conjugation. I've seen Wheelock recomended here but I was looking for an aproach tailored for an spanish speaker, or at least I would like to hear the thoughts of ESL anons who used Wheelock (if there's any) and to know what their mother tongue is.

>> No.20424985

>>20421587
About this, which kind of metric do medieval and modern Latin poetry follow? For example, I've read that the Petrarca's Africa is written in "latin hexameters": did he follow the classical rules of quantitative poetry? How accurate were the knowledge of vowel quantity in those times?

>> No.20424999

>>20424972
The Diccionario Ilustrado Latino of the editorial Vox includes a very handy booklet with all the morphology and a straightforward explanation of it.

>> No.20425012

>>20424999
Thanks, anon. I'll take a look at it. If you happen to know of more worthwhile resources I would appreciate if you'd let me know.

>> No.20425018

>>20424972
https://archive.org/download/vox-resumen-de-gramatica-latina

>> No.20425033

>>20424972
Italian here, I did use Wheelock as first book to learn Latin myself actually, in english, I didn't even know LLPSI existed nor I had though about how it would probably be better to learn Latin with an Italian book, but I can't say it was a bad experience
but that said I don't think I've finished it, I don't remember well, I think I also started using a bit of LLPSI later when I found out about it, plus an old Italian school book I fetched from my aunt, though at that point I had a solid enough base to start grinding Latin texts, beginning with Lhomond's Viris Illustribus

>> No.20425039

>>20424972
>and I find myself making guesses as to why some cases are used over others
no point in even thinking about that

>> No.20425071

>>20425033
What does Latin sound like to a native Italian? Does it have that sort of antiquated beauty that Old English has?

>> No.20425171

>>20425071
mmh wouldn't say so, the gap is quite too big I think, to me personally it sounds like a definitely related but ultimately foreign language, more commanding and solemn than Italian
https://youtu.be/kWEEN_BIlN8?t=165

>> No.20425209

>>20425071
>f antiquated beauty that Old English has?
virgin hands

>> No.20425405

What's a solid latin grammar base necessary to start the translation grind?
As for now I can work with all declensions (third one is a headache but I usually manage), create all indicative verb forms and understand ACI synthax. Currently I'm learning conjunctives their uses and consecutio temporum (another headache).
What should i do next??

>> No.20425434

>>20425405
Start reading something relatively simple. Don't get discouraged if it is difficult, you still have a lot to learn, specifically subjunctives and conditionals.
Keep going with whatever textbook you are using. Look up other textbooks and try the sample sentences and readings from them. Try small readings, at most a paragraph at a time. You will be over your head most of the time, that is OK so long as you keep learning and studying.

>> No.20425604

>>20425405
>the translation grind
ngmi

>> No.20425617

>>20425405
I used Shelmerdine's Latin as a reference point for everything you need to at least get started reading real Latin

But basically full declension and conjugation, a good working vocab, sequence of tenses and various forms of subordinate clauses, all major uses of the cases (consult something like Allen & Greenough to see how many weird rare uses there are, and don't worry too much about it), plus common constructions like the gerundive and supine, and you should be fine

At some point you just fake it til you make it with input, but you do need that base down. Also helps a lot to read well glossed readers, check out Dickinson's College Commentaries.

>> No.20425953
File: 1.35 MB, 3710x1528, 20220526_194842.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20425953

>>20425405
>conjunctives
Meant the subjunctives. I mixed it up with its latin name.>>20425434
>Start reading something relatively simple.
My book has quite alot of texts i practice on
>>20425617
>At some point you just fake it til you make it with input, but you do need that base down.
Thats the plan

>> No.20426677

bumpus

>> No.20426767

From De Bello Gallico:
Persuadent Rauracis et Tulingis et Latobrigis finitimis, uti eodem usi consilio
Is "usi" just the perf. act. indicative of utor here? As in "they persuade their neighbors the Rauraci, the Tulingi, and the Latobrigi to use the same plan they used"?

>> No.20426790

>>20426767
perfect passive participle plural nominative of utor, but because it's deponent, the meaning is active, so the translation basically works

>> No.20427006

>>20426767
I think usi is a plural past participle, and the verb sum is omitted
>persuadent illis uti eodem consilio isti usi sunt
>they persuade them to make use of the same plan they did
usi sunt = perfect past of utor
Someone correct me if I'm wrong

>> No.20427227

>>20427006
it would be "usi sint" because of the needed subjunctive but yes

>> No.20428551

..

>> No.20428751

>>20420430
The familiar word order and vocabulary is nice, as well as the surplus of prepositions where in Classical it would only be the noun's case left to determine meaning. I like it a lot, since I’ve been filtered by Virgil and Cicero. My plan is to learn the Vulgate, then the Castellio version that follows the classical idiom more closely, then maybe I’ll be able to attempt classical prose.

>> No.20428803

lol I keep pasting more passages from Caesar to ask questions about, but as I think about how to formulate the questions precisely I answer them for myself.
De Bello Gallico is solid intermediate reading btw, I highly recommend it for anyone who has finished a primary textbook.

>> No.20428855

>>20424985
I don't know medieval poetry at all, only really Augustan and earlier. The couple modern Latin poets I know generally write in imitation of Virgil and Ovid.

>> No.20429334

>>20427227
Thanks for the correction

>> No.20429366
File: 149 KB, 1024x695, 121f695ae64e90fa49d4a75981f7a8f2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20429366

Todays tricky question with my attempt: "I shall praise the plan by which that town is being laid waste."

>Consilium laudabo quo oppidum vastatur.

>> No.20429394
File: 34 KB, 699x485, 1630551699983.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20429394

>>20428751
>My plan is to learn the Vulgate, then the Castellio version that follows the classical idiom more closely, then maybe I’ll be able to attempt classical prose.
Muhaha, everyone is following my plan

Original scans, complete
>https://archive.org/details/bibliasacraexseb01cast/page/n11/mode/2up
Transcribed, incomplete
>https://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Biblia_Sacra_interprete_Sebastiano_Castellione
Transcribed with Macrons, less complete
>https://bibliasacracastellionis.wordpress.com/

>> No.20429463

>>20426767
What is uti? Infinitive of utor or another form for ut?

>> No.20429484

>>20429394
>Transcribed with Macrons
How do people learn vowel quantity, since full texts edited with macrons are rare? Poetry? Looking all the words in a dictionary?

>> No.20429494

>>20429484
Obsession with vowel length is a modern phenomenon. I'll get blasted by autists on here for saying it, but most people throughout the middle ages , when a lot of these manuscripts were made, never gave a fuck.

Keep in mind we don't have a "master dictionary" where everything is macronized. A lot of this is reconstructed by linguists with too much free time on their hand. Their are people who lived and died speaking fluent latin that never wrote or read a word with a macron above it.

>> No.20429636

>>20429494
>people during retarded age write retardedly
What else is new

>> No.20429820

>>20429636
The fair revaluation of the middle ages is quite new, you should look into it.

>> No.20429835

>>20429463
the latter

>> No.20429993

>>20424985
Medievals quickly lost the classical meter and switched to a qualitative rhythm where word accents mattered more than syllable quantity. Most is probably iambic.
Petrarch went back to classical roots and wrote in an epic style emulating Virgil and Ovid, which is why he calls it "Latin hexameters"

>> No.20430002

>>20429494
>lived and died speaking fluent latin that never wrote or read a word with a macron above it
There are English speakers now who live their whole lives without seeing accent marks yet they are found in good dictionaries. Native speakers know how a language sounds and should be read, non-natives need to be taught. With the lack of Latin speakers research into vowel quantity was and is necessary.

>> No.20430062
File: 319 KB, 750x970, 4673F050-7B9C-4988-9826-14DB7AE84697.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20430062

I don’t bother with vowel length other than to determine word stress. With a version of the Vulgate with stress marks added I don’t even think about it. (The acute accent is where you stress)

Ecce:

>> No.20430211
File: 81 KB, 354x560, Stratakis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20430211

>>20410555
Podium Arts is selling his audiobook (which usually are quite expensive) for A First Greek Reader for $1 (or more if you want). Much better pronunciation than Speaking Greek or any audio source I have come across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0_lKX7UTM

>> No.20430739

>>20430062
If you bother with stress, you should bother even more with vowel length, since stress is dependent on vowel length, and thus vowel length was more important than stress when perceiving the correct pronunciation of a word, and versification was defined by quantity, not quality.
And if you already know Italian or Spanish those accentuation marks are in most cases superfluous.
You have two option: worrying about correct pronunciation, and study vowel length, or not worry about it. Both options are acceptable ofc. But incongruity is kind of annoying.

>> No.20430748

Caesari renuntiatur Helvetiis esse in animo per agrum Sequanorum et Haeduorum iter in Santonum fines facere, qui non longe a Tolosatium finibus absunt, quae civitas est in provincia.

Why is Helvetiis in dat/abl here? Not sure why it isn't it accusative as the subject of the ind. statement.

>> No.20430845

>>20430748
dative possessive type of construction, literally "to them is in intention"
it's a typical construction to express thinking about doing something
'mihi est in animo ...' = I intend to...

>> No.20430860

>>20430211
Ranieri's (PBUH) Lucian version is better though

>> No.20430914

>>20430845
thank you!

>> No.20431107

>>20430860
I like to ranieripost as much as anyone but lets be honest here, his Ranieri pronunciation method (tm) is awful, historically inaccurate and sounds very unnatural because it focuses so much on accents which is not very wise since he is an *nglo.

>> No.20431199

>>20430748
>>20431107
This is why that "method" doesn't work
People aren't able to understand basic things

>> No.20431405
File: 1.55 MB, 772x830, yes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20431405

how to read this?

>> No.20431445

the real method is feeling it out and not thinking about cases and verb forms
just try to understand what is being said (yes looking up words is allowed)
if you can understand something that was just a tiny little above your level, you just improved
if you can't understand it, skip it
rinse and repeat until you're good

>> No.20431750

>>20431445
true

>> No.20431778

>>20431445
Unless you have experience with inflected languages, this is bad advice. You need conscious awareness of what is going on instead of relying on your gut.
The biggest hurdle is that languages like Latin condense so much within the endings of words. You cannot rely on your intuition if it uses the blueprint of a modern language that spells everything out with a ton of helper words.

>> No.20431870

>>20429494
>Obsession with vowel length is a modern phenomenon.

How can you understand poetry without knowing vowel length? It seems really fundamental.

>> No.20431934
File: 384 KB, 506x503, 1622490046498.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20431934

>>20431405
some patterns emerge but I guess one would have to be familiar with medieval abbreviations and such, some can be inferred, others I have trouble, my attempt
>... volo aliquid de pestilentia scribere ex dictis medico(rum?) magis autentico(rum?) breviter compilando. Quia pestilentia nos freq(uentius??) invadit (quam??) fecerat ipsos antiquos.....antiq(ui?)......ea non potuerunt aliqua dicere seu scribere
>...primo q(??) sunt sig(na??) pestilentiae
>nobilis Avicenna quarto capitulo tractatu primo ostendit septe(m) sign(na) pestilentiae. Primum...una die estivali(?? summer I guess) aura s(ic?) mutat ut pluviosa: ..nebulosa. Dein ventosa...praecipue a vento meridionali ....signum est ill(ud?)...saepe...estivali dies...totaliter ob...
>...I'd like to write something about the plague compiling from the writings of the most authentic doctors. For the plague affects us more frequently than it did to ancients themselves....and the ancients couldn't say it or write it...
>...which are the signs of the plague
>the noble Avicenna in the fourth chapter in the first sermon shows the seven signs of the plague. First in a summer day(??) the aura changes in such a way to be rainy:....cloudy. Then windy...especially from a southern wind...that is the sign...often....in summer days(???)....wholly because....

>> No.20432507

>>20430002
>With the lack of Latin speakers research into vowel quantity was and is necessary.
>>20431870
>How can you understand poetry without knowing vowel length?


I feel like so many people think 99% of people who are learning Latin are only interested in poetry.

>> No.20432519

>>20432507
it's the truth

>> No.20432536

>>20431107
Best latin audio resources:

Italian speaker (classical)
>Satura Lanx (Irene Regini)
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJCYCaXUERhY93xEWC8Cojw
>https://open.spotify.com/show/7BeMwoP6xLQh6gWRsk7vuG

Spanish speakers (classical)
>In Foro Romano podcast
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu26iZQTTYYmW_3rO5g4toQ
>https://open.spotify.com/show/2jOArdpBryy2PfMkqPH5Ac

Portuguese speaker (classical)
>Litterae Christianae
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCafRyEPk3QWraG4h1_8Qk8A
>https://open.spotify.com/show/7anDgWoVzVkWxWeYna5Rx0

Ecclesiastical pronunciation
>Vatican weekly news podcast
>https://www.vaticannews.va/en/podcast/vatican-radio-news-in-latin.html

>> No.20432564

>>20432519
No sir it's not.

The majority are Christians wanting to read the vulgate, homeschool parents who fell for the "classical education" meme and just want their kids to learn Latin & Greek rootwords, and & uptight parents who think it will increase SAT scores.

The rest of the people who are learning and actually want to read a serious reading level for a hobby or career want to read mostly prose. They are either clergy who want to read church fathers, college students who are going into medieval studies who want to read primary source manuscripts, or romaboo hobbyists who want to read classical texts - which are mostly prose.

>> No.20432566

>>20431445
>just guess bro

>> No.20432579

>>20432566
Imagine telling a person who is learning Russian not to use a textbook with English in it, or else you are not "really" learning Russian like in the way that Russian baby learns from it's mother.

These people have never learned a second language in their lives and you can tell by the way that they pronounce Latin like a tourist speaks Spanish in Cancun.

>> No.20432585

>>20432564
Yeah who would want to read
Virgil
Horace
Martial
Catullus
Persius
Juvenal
Ovid
Statius
Lucretius
Plautus
Terence
It isn't like they had a profound affect on the language and culture and prose authors constantly referred to and emulated them

>> No.20432597

>>20432585
>Yeah who would want to read
A minority of the people learning latin will even read the Aeneid in it's entirity. Most people at school learning Latin never even read more then pieces of Caesar. You are watching too many YouTube videos, go to an actual high school and ask them what they are reading. The drop off rate from Latin 1 to Latin 2 is harshing than any other language course taught in public schools. In many cases your class of 20 maybe be 3 kids the next year. And before you say something about universities, most people are classists who can't read basic prose, let alone HORACE. You also have a few medieval studies people who may read medieval poetry, which has a completely different meter without vowel length.

This is not an argument about whether or not Latin poetry is important, this is about what are people realistically doing. Not you and me and the rest of hobbyists on 4chan.

>> No.20432602

>>20432597
>harshing
*harsher

sorry I'm making a lot of typos, im multitasking rn and I just woke up.

>> No.20432690

A couple of questions.
1. Any Anki deck for Latin you recommend?
2. Easiest books to read in the Vulgate? I suppose those in the New Testament, but which ones?

>> No.20432695

If someone speaks Latin and doesn’t observe vowel length but maintains correct stress will they still be understood? I can’t see it being a big enough issue to prevent comprehension. Vatican fags do it just fine, no? Genuinely asking here

>> No.20432702

>>20432690
People say Mark is the easiest to begin with. They also say the NT is easier because it’s translated from Koine Greek and not Hebrew like the OT, so there isn’t as much weird grammar (but there still is if you’re used to Classical Latin)

>> No.20432706

>>20432690
The New Testament is written more simply than the OT and the Gospels (in Greek) were written clearly by someone lesser educated than Paul. From what I understand, the Vulgate translation should reflect that.

The Gospel of John looks pretty easy at a glance.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_toTeFr0nk&t=302s
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8eUQlFfpFLK7Crx9bJBqfm9DfBS64Y3h
Use this if you get stuck
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpBmkKhDUIVGYVzGo8fAuHDQcrpyaLTnA

>> No.20432712

>>20432695
No one follows vowel length when speaking. This is a bald man meme. if anything, you will sound pretentious and incoherrent if you draw out words with extended vowel length. Just focus on stress.

>> No.20432714

>>20404586
Octavio Paz in one of his books states that "Neptunus" has quite an obscure etymology, which makes him even more interesting

>> No.20432717

>>20432712
Thanks, Anon.

>> No.20432723
File: 338 KB, 716x942, Y7OQGTT.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20432723

Are Etruscan, Dacian and Hittite considered "Classical"?

>> No.20432728

>>20432717
Listen to In Foro Romano podcast to hear how people have casual conversations in Latin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6sz4O_tAvo


>>20432723
>Are Etruscan, Dacian and Hittite considered "Classical"?
A Classical language is a literary language with classical pieces of literature written in it. Use that definition to answer your own question.

>> No.20432743

>>20432536
thanks fren, it's quite annoying that the most spammed sources are always anglos
The Spaniard's recordings seems less curated than the rest though

>> No.20432755

>>20432743
>The Spaniard's recordings seems less curated than the rest though
Yeah it's just a podcast where friends talk.

>> No.20432773

>>20432712
>if you draw out words with extended vowel length
If done naturally it should feel just like a cadence or rhythm, part of the speaker's accent, imo. After all the difference between a long and a short vowel should be roughly the same as between a closed and an open syllable, no? Which are indistinguishable to romance speakers, btw. I'm not even sure if it's possible to invent some sort of training to learn to distinguish and reproduce vowel length "naturally", without sounding like a parody.

>> No.20432780

>>20432773
>If done naturally it should feel just like a cadence or rhythm, part of the speaker's accent, imo
By a native speaker, but when you artificially try to force it with an anglo accent, you sound like a retard trying to speak Italian.

>I'm not even sure if it's possible to invent some sort of training to learn to distinguish and reproduce vowel length "naturally", without sounding like a parody.
Exactly what I just said.

>> No.20433492

>>20431199
well, first, I didn't learn with LLPSI
second, I understood the sentence, but [dat.] in animo is an idiomatic construction that I hadn't encountered before

>> No.20433680

>>20433492
Different guy - how did you learn Latin?

>> No.20433689

>>20433680
I worked through Wheelock's, then started reading the Vulgate, selections of Cicero in the Wheelock's intermediate reader, and now Caesar.

>> No.20433707

>>20433689
So cool! What did you do to retain vocabulary? I know Wheelock has a relatively small vocabulary. Did you use a dictionary, flash cards, or something else?

>> No.20433843

>>20433707
lots of dictionary reference. like half my time reading so far has been spent checking dictionaries until I've gotten used to the style of the work. If I realize I've had to look a word up twice without being able to remember it I copy the dictionary entry into a notebook and that usually does it.
I've been really lazy about seeking out opportunities to practice writing/listening which I know would help with reading as well, but reading is all I really care about.

>> No.20433847

>>20433843
Why not use Orberg just to get a working base vocabulary?

>> No.20433857

>>20433847
yeah I started reading LLPSI after finishing wheelock's but got bored

>> No.20433871

>>20433857
Understandable, but maybe check out stuff like Fabulae Faciles or Via Latina.

>> No.20433874

>>20403579
Would learning classical languages help me make constructed languages?

>> No.20433891

>>20433874
Learning multiple languages that are as different from each other as they are from your native language would would fine.

You could also not learn any languages and just study linguistics, but you may not properly learn how to construct artificial idioms and irregular grammar. Learning at least 2 languages might be enough to get an idea of some of the nuance and subtleties.

My general advice would by try not to construct anything that's too close to Indo-European, because that's what everyone does. Also keep in mind the irregularities that I mentioned. Unless you are trying to construct an auxiliary language for practical use, maybe you want no irregularities.

To really answer the question, I don't see how learning an ancient language would help you more than a modern language. If anything it might help less, because you completely miss out on the communicative aspect as well as things like dialect variation. If you are trying to create some kind of mythical literary language like Elvish, maybe it might help. Read about Tolkien. He was a philologist (historical linguist).

>> No.20433910

>>20433874
Learning Latin is one of the classic ways to learn and understand grammar and syntax so it could help yes, I think that's where I would disagree with the poster above. Learning Latin changed the entire way I read and write in my native language, I see everything as the grammatical and syntactical unit it is.

>> No.20433987

>>20433874
>Do christcucks really?
As someone who studied 4 years of Latin and worked on conlangs for many years, this is the takeaway from Latin for the subject:

The grammar is fundamentally different from English, yet in many ways exemplary for its particular kind of construction. If you bother to learn Latin, you will understand how all other such languages work. You will almost certainly however not walk away with the impression that Latin is in any way superior to English in anything other than, you might say, a consistency of sorts---but the ways it does things is more trouble than it's worth, for trying to revive it or devise a conlang to succeed it. It is a valuable resource for what to consider doing and what definitely not to do with your conlang---but most importantly, it makes you infinitely better at grasping etymology and derivation of words, which is essential for understanding how to make a language from the ground up, for the reason that you cannot rely upon the meanings of old words to invent meanings for new words. See a word like 'cyber', which in contemporary English has absolutely nothing to do with its ancestor.

In summary, learning Latin would help. But it's not essential, not an end-all-be-all. You're better off reading second-hand for languages you don't already know.

>> No.20433997

>>20432579
>These people have never learned a second language in their lives
This is absolutely hilarious to me because it's actually the monolingual textbook drones who believe that learning a language consists of memorizing paradigms and dissecting sentences letter by letter giving them names and trying to fit them into patterns as to get a clue of their meaning.

>> No.20434011

>>20432728
Those people are lame as fuck.

>> No.20434021

>>20433997
>This is absolutely hilarious to me because it's actually the monolingual textbook drones who believe that learning a language consists of memorizing paradigms and dissecting sentences letter by letter giving them names and trying to fit them into patterns as to get a clue of their meaning.

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but I unironically agree. Just to continue with the Russian example: They think Wheelock is some kind of super antiquated uniquely bad way of learning a language. What does Wheelock do differently than Nicholas J. Brown's New Penguin Russian Course, or Madrigal's Spanish book?

That's why I say they have never learned a language before, if you had looked at a contemporary language course at some point in your life, then you wouldn't seethe so much over Wheelock.

>> No.20434024

>>20434011
Sorry that you didn't like it. I hope that you find an audio resource that you enjoy.

>> No.20434076

>>20434021
You are operating under the hypothesis that contemporary language courses are a good way of learning. Meanwhile 99% of people who take language classes never get anywhere.

>> No.20434131

>>20434076
The two books I named were written specifically for self study and are the two most recommended books for their respective languages.

>> No.20434178 [DELETED] 

>>20434024
I already have. I prefer to listen to bona fide scholars and performers recite classical texts in the original language. There are many such resources out there. Unfortunately, Latin is mired in low-level shitters, as seen in your video, but good audio resources are easily found in other classical languages, including Greek.

>> No.20434252
File: 21 KB, 300x241, 1653538790060.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20434252

If there were a chan and video tutorials in Latin you would be able to learn it without any effort. Some grammar now and then, and a tab with a dictionary. That's how I learned English. (School was only good for the acquisition of some vocabulary and verbal tenses, other than that it was totally useless.)
Compare it with learning a classical language: the easier texts aren't precisely easy. I imagine myself having to learn English by reading Shakespeare or the Bible instead of chess videos for beginners and schizo rambling on image boards and I feel like killing myself.

>> No.20434422

>>20434252
I think Bald man has mentioned something about latin only speaking communities. I assume there's a discord for it somewhere?

Of course I'm sure the topics discussed there would be very autistic but it would be all in latin and such be good practice

>> No.20434545

Should you start with Latin or Greek?

>> No.20434702

>>20434545
Things to consider:

1. Do you want early ease or a challenge? Latin starts out easier then gets hard as shit. Greek starts out hard as shit then gets easy.

2. What are you interested in reading more? Vulgate? Virgil? Cicero? Plato? Aristotle? The Greek New Testament?

3. What is your native language? Is a Romance language? Is it another inflected language like Russian, German, Japanese, etc? Russian speakers will have an easier time with Greek probably.

>> No.20434710

>>20434422
>I assume there's a discord for it somewhere?
It's run by the Reddit mods, so it's a far lefty place. Also they are LLPSI fanatics. I got chased off of there when I first joined because I said I was enjoying Wheelock. Not a joke.

>> No.20434814

>>20434710
damn they sound like lunatics. I wouldn't want to talk to people like that in either Latin or English

>> No.20434834

>>20434814
The Latin "community" is honestly is a bizarre group of people really.

>tradcaths
>homeschooled autists
>4chan autists
>far left woke classics majors
>Romaboos
> YouTuber fanboys

So no matter where you go, you are going to encounter someone who is weird for one reason or another. That's how I justify staying on the server. I don't really talk to anyone on their though. It's a nice place to find links for resources though.

>> No.20434844

>>20434422
>>20434710
Other than them being faggots, there's also the problem of the quality of the Latin spoken or written there. Imagine a chan where only ESLs could participate, imagine what kind of English you could "learn" from there.
t. ESL btw

>> No.20434873

>>20434834
what kind of channels do they have? do they talk about things in latin that aren't talking about latin?

>> No.20435296

>>20434710
They post manifestos about including tranny pronouns in Latin all the time. It was at that point I left and never looked back. Im here to learn about Rome and her language, not shoehorn gender insanity into a real culture.

>> No.20435327

>>20403579
whats the quickstart guide to ancient greek?

>> No.20435438

>>20435327
Don't worry about mastering the passive aorist in the first month. Buy Reading Greek or the Italian Athenaze. Supplement it with some more grammar focused book.

>> No.20435451

>>20405283
Well, they're employed in their own field and the NEETs here aren't soooo

>> No.20435481

>>20435296
>including tranny pronouns in Latin
What do they think about the NIGER question.

>> No.20435488

>>20435451
nepotism

>> No.20435504

>>20435481
they say ater instead

>> No.20435512
File: 189 KB, 462x450, 1653000629794.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20435512

>>20435504
>tfw i can't distinguish satire and reality anymore

>> No.20435677

>>20434076
99% of people in language classes are not taking the course seriously lmao
they are there just to get gen-ed requirement and never think about it again in their lives

>> No.20435681

>>20435512
No they refuse to say niger. Which is hilarious cause every mestizo and half black Brazilian I know who took Latin has no qualms with it.

>> No.20435701

>>20435481
>>20435504
>>20435681
Is it pronounced nigger though? Or like the country?

>> No.20435707

>>20435701
knee-guerre (as in guerre in French)

Got to keep in mind that the way vowels are pronounced in English is not the same in Latin.

>> No.20435733

Finally started Lingua Latina after completing the first stage of the Dowling method. So happy.

I have spent the last 7-8 months writing out paradigms for 30 minutes everyday, each 100+ times. I can now recite all of them on command.

>> No.20435768

>>20435701
I read it like this
https://voca.ro/1gUzvJXDvQyI

>> No.20435854

>>20435733
Unironically mirin'

>> No.20435862

>>20435733
the ranieri dowling method says to say them out loud instead of writing them 100 times

>> No.20435870

>>20435862
I said every verb and declension aloud as I wrote it. Not buying your package. Sorry, Ranieri.

>> No.20435877

>>20435870
the point is you didn't have to bother writing them

>> No.20435884
File: 61 KB, 658x272, Screenshot 2022-05-28 at 20.42.50.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20435884

i've never been this filtered

>> No.20435897

>>20435877
What he did is one of the oldest and most tediously painful form of mnemonics known to man. Even if it's probably not efficient at all, he will never forget.
>most tediously painful
Someone corrects me if this is grammatically wrong please

>> No.20435952

>>20435897
painfully tedious

>> No.20436246
File: 110 KB, 398x275, 1646935453985.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20436246

>>20435884
something something....
>I would greatly estimate it, fellows, that you'd be the same sort of judges in my case for this fact/accusation(?) as you'd be to yourselves if you went through the same: in know well in fact that if you held the same opinion about others as you hold for yourselves, it wouldn't be the case(??)

>> No.20436380

>>20435438
i just want to learn the letters so i don't get filtered when reading evola

>> No.20436427

Daily reminder that all this debate about the ideal textbook is the stupidest shit ever and is exclusively carried out by people who never get past the first few chapters of some pdf they downloaded on libgen. Just fucking pick a book and do it, it literally does not matter, stop arguing about how to tie your shoelaces in the ideal fashion before taking up hiking as a hobby.

>>20434710
>LLPSI fans = redditors
>redditors = LLPSI fans
After all this time it finally makes sense

>> No.20436598

>>20434702
the reason latin gets hard as shit is that the main canon is based on hard as shit authors like Ovid, Cicero, Tacitus and Vergil. Meanwhile in Greek you have Plato, Herodotus and Xenophon as a good base to keep you entertained for a long time, while not being hard as shit, but on the other hand you also have authors like Thukydides, Aischylos and Pindar. So it's more like Greek is harder when you are starting out, due to a vocabulary that does not have many cognates in english and the confusing verb system, then it gets okayish when reading Plato, but if you go further into the hardest authors, which some people never do, you get fucked in the ass again. In Latin it is common to go from the textbook straight to the hardest authors.

>> No.20436631

>/clg/ reached the bump limit
Yay we did it reddit

>> No.20436673

>>20436380
ok. learn them

>> No.20436692

>>20436380
http://atticgreek.org/pronunc/pronunc_guide.html

>> No.20436719

>>20411353
Don't forget careo takes an ablative!

>> No.20436743

>>20436380
You can do that in an hour

>> No.20437008

somooene make a new

>> No.20437194
File: 120 KB, 1024x660, 1653048251147m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
20437194

>>20437181

>> No.20438641

>>20434873
It's a public server, so if you search "Latin" on Discord server list you can preview it without actually joining.

>> No.20438651

>>20435733
Yikes, you could just use a grammar primer and learn your paradigms in half the time. Memorizing tables out of context is retarded, I'm sorry.

>> No.20438654

>>20436427
>Daily reminder that all this debate about the ideal textbook is the stupidest shit ever
This.

>>
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