Myth of the Grail & Arthurian /lit/

[Dago No.20395704]

Evola wanted to make three things clear:
>(1) The Grail was not a Christian but a Hyperborean mystery.
>(2) The Grail legend deals with an initiatory mystery.
>(3) The Grail is a symbolic expression of hope and of the will of specific ruling classes in the Middle Ages (namely, the Ghibellines), who wanted to reorganize and reunite the entire Western world as it was at the time into a Holy Empire, that is, one based on a transcendental, spiritual basis.

Let us discuss Arthurian /lit/ not merely from a literary or historical POV, but also an initiatic POV

I will post sole bits from the book to help provide more insight to the average /lit/izen

[Dago No.20395783]

In various texts, the Grail is essentially portrayed under three forms:
>(1) As an immaterial, self-moving object, of an indefinite and enigmatic nature (“it was not made of wood, nor of some metal, nor of stone, horn, or none”).
>(2) As a stone—a “heavenly stone” and a “stone of light.”
>(3) As a cup, bowl, or tray, often of gold and sometimes adorned with precious stones. Both in this form and in the previous one, we almost always find women carrying the Grail (another element totally extraneous to any Christian ritual, since no priests appear in it).

[Dago No.20395801]

I am a tranny btw

[Anonymous No.20395808]

>>20395704
>Let us discuss Arthurian /lit/ not merely from a literary or historical POV, but also an initiatic POV
Isn't that more /x/ thing?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20395813]

Later if there’s interest, I may elaborate on various conceptions of the graal held by a range of groups. I will just note it is the primary key to the existent witchcraft initiation material we hold and is a core to the mystery of the inverse pentagram.

[Strange Love No.20395850]

>>20395783

>tourist has arrived

Might have some input to that later on ... for now just lurking.

>>20395813

Would be appreciated.

[Anonymous No.20395873]

>>20395704
Almost done with this, great book. Read Revolt first and then moved onto this. Should I move on to Hermetic Tradition or Ride the Tiger next bros?

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20395926]

>>20395813
Sup, big pimpin’?
Please do
Here is an interesting bit how Lucifer relates to the Grail:

I wish to now discuss those episode in which the Grail appears as a stone, and also to emphasize the particular meaning that emerges in the tradition portraying the Grail as a fallen stone from heaven and particularly as a “Luciferian” stone.
Wolfram von Eschenbach connects to the Grail the enigmatic term ‘lapsit exillis’. This term has been interpreted by scholars in various ways: ‘lapis erilis’, or “Lord’s Stone”; ‘lapis elixir’, in reference to the alchemical elixir of regeneration; ‘lapis betillis’, which may be a reference to ‘baitulos’, the stone called from the sky according to Greek mythology; ‘lapis ex corpus’, a “heavenly stone”; and finally ‘lapis exiliis’, or “stone of the exile.” In reality, no matter how accurate these conjectural interpretations are from a purely etymological point of view, the Grail is susceptible to all of these meaning according to its various aspects.
The Grail is first of all a ‘lapis ex coelis’ because, according to Wolfram, it was originally brought down to earth by a host of angels. In this tradition, also referred to in the ‘Titurel’ by Albrecht von Scharffenberg, the Grail appears as a stone, a jasper or silica, and is connected to the symbol of the Phoenix. According to Wolfram, these were the angels who were condemned to descend to earth for having remained neutral when Lucifer rebelled against God. The Grail was guarded by them and did not lose its qualities; later on it was entrusted to a stock of knights, who were appointed from above. This tradition was modified in ‘Wartburgkrieg’ in the following way: a stone fell off Lucifer’s crown when the latter was stricken by the archangel Michael. This is the stone of the elect, which fell from heaven to earth, which Percival found again, and which was previously picked up by Titurel, who is the founder of the Grail dynasty; thus the Grail allegedly is a Luciferian stone.
According to others, the stone that fell to earth was an emerald that adorned Lucifer’s forehead. It was cut into a snake of a bowl by a faithful angel, and thus the Grail was born. It was given to Adam before he was expelled from the Garden of Eden. Seth, Adam’s son, having temporarily returned to the earthly paradise, took the Grail along with him. Other people transported the Grail to Montsegur, a fortress in the Pyrenees, which Lucifer’s armies besieged in order to get the Grail back and put it into their leader’s crown, out of which it had fallen; but the Grail was allegedly saved by knights who hid it within a mountain.

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20396005]

>>20395926
Wolfram bestows upon Percival some Luciferian traits, though he makes him successfully complete his adventure, so much so that in the end Percival assumes the luminous form of a restorator and of a king of the Grail. In fact, Percival accuses God of having betrayed him, of not being faithful to him, and if having failed to assist him in the conquest of the Grail. He rebels and in anger says:
>I used to serve a being called God before I was ridiculed and covered with shame… I was His humble servant because I believed He would grant me His favor: but from now on I will refuse to serve Him. If He persecutes me with His hatred, I will resign myself to that too. Friend [he says to Gawain], when the time for you to fight has come, may the thought of a woman [rather than of God] protect you.

Animated by such indignation and pride, Percival, after failing in his first visit to the castle, fulfills his adventures. And thus, being separated from God, avoiding churches and performing “wild” knightly deeds he eventually triumphs, achieving the glory of the king of the Grail. Trevrizent will tell him, “Rarely was a greater miracle seen: by showing your anger you have received from God what you desired the most.”
Also in Wolfram, Percival appears as the one who reaches the castle of the Grail in an exceptional way, without having been designated or called like others before him. His election occurs later on; in a way, it is the very adventures of Percival that bring his election about and almost bestow it upon him. Trevrizent says “it never happened before that the Grail could be achieved by fighting.” This trait too helps us recognize the heroic type, the one who, not by nature (to whom the legitimate king of the Grail may correspond), but because of the reawakening of a deeper vocation and thanks to his action, successfully participated in what the Grail symbolizes. This character reaches such heights to become a knight of the Grail and finally achieves the supreme dignity of the Order of the Grail.

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20396021]

>>20395873
Def Hermetic or Metaphysics of War

[Anonymous No.20396044]

Is the Holy Grail something particular to British mythology or is it found elsewhere?

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20396054]

>>20396044
It is Celtic origin but more Nordic-Western than exclusively British

[Anonymous No.20396440]

>>20395813
No thanks, we don't need any more profanations.

[Anonymous No.20396466]

>>20396044
Celtic or proto-Celtic, there are analogs of Grail myths in many different ancient civilisations, Guenon and Evola say it probably comes from the Primordial Tradition itself.

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20396485]

>>20396466
Right, they would say that it is a Hyperborean tradition that survived amongst the Celts

[Anonymous No.20396495]

>>20395873
HT is really complicated and you won't get a whole lot out of it unless you study it carefully. If you're into esotericism and enigmas it is great, otherwise you may be disappointed. If you're more into philosophy and want some pragmatic wisdom on how to continue living in the modern world, Ride the Tiger is better.

One book that seems to get overlooked is Mask and Face of Contemporary Spiritualism. Evola goes through all of the different spiritual currents from the 19th and 20th centuries and analyses them from an initiatic/Traditional standpoint.

[Anonymous No.20396542]

>>20395704
I think the only Arthurian lit I've read was half of Mort d'Arthur and The Green Knight. I read the OP as well but what Arthurian lit should I read next?

Also, I think Evola talked about the following in Mystery of the Grail. Arthur represents temporal power and Merlin spiritual power, and uniting the two is definitely Hyperborean, since the two powers were one in primordial times, and often in the literature it seems like Merlin is just an extension of Arthur's own consciousness. Also, the Land of the Living/Avalon/Isle of the Blessed/Mont Salvasche is where you go once you've reached a certain state of enlightenment through initiation.

I also found the Templar connection and Freemason and Rosicrucian conspiracy near the end very interesting. Evola has a tendency to drop crazy redpills at the end of his books I've noticed. Also if you think King Arthur is a Christian tale, you just haven't studied enough ancient Traditions. Read this book, it absolutely BTFOs that idea. It is only superficially Christian, like Christmas and Easter, which are pre-Christian but have Christian imagery and iconography grafted onto them. Much like how Jews will adopt whatever form is necessary for them to fit in.

I'm sorry I don't have any more in-depth thoughts on this atm, I read it a year ago.

[Anonymous No.20396561]

>>20396542
Also related to the Hyperborean element is the name "Arthur". It means great bear man does it not? I could be wrong here, but I recall it had a Hyperborean meaning. Ursa Major (Great Bear) rotating around North Star is a swastika. Guenon has an article (included in Intro to Magic 3), "Two Hyperborean Symbols", the bear and the boar, representing the temporal and spiritual powers, respectively.

[Anonymous No.20396627]

If you want to learn about possible secret societies involved, there is Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Not sure how much of it is true and the core theme is different but there is still some good historical/pseudo-historical research there.

[Anonymous No.20396637]

>>20395801
i knew it, Elsa, i fucking knew it

[Anonymous No.20396671]

bump

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20396890]

>>20396637
N-no
I’m Stella

[Anonymous No.20396920]

>>20396561
>It means great bear man does it not
It derives from the PIE word used for a bear, but the actual term itself means something more like "Demon" or "monster". It's cognate with Ursa and Arktos (the "artic" is the "the land of the bears"; Antarctica is "the land opposite the land of the bears").

[Anonymous No.20396937]

>>20396920
Thanks, I was hoping that someone could clarify.

[Anonymous No.20396940]

>>20396466
>there are analogs of Grail myths in many different ancient civilisations,
Examples?

[Anonymous No.20396956]

>>20396890
kek
hit me up with some grail nonsense, i'm all ears

[Anonymous No.20396985]

>>20396940
Sorry, I wrote that wrong. There are analogs of different themes found in Grail myths, most notably the draught of immortality (the Grail), such as the juice of soma (Hindu), ambrosia (ancient Greece), mead (Nordic), haoma (Zoroastrian/ancient Persia), and others. There is also the reoccurring theme of an island of immortals (sometimes with a mountain) in these traditions, as well as the reoccurring theme of 12 and the "solar empire". Many other things as well, Evola explains it in the book much better and in more depth of course.

[Anonymous No.20396987]

>>20395704
Seekers of the Grail, assemble!

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397003]

>>20396542
>hat Arthurian lit should I read next?
From the book

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397027]

I’m gonna hit yall niggaz with some deep Hitler shit that only a real /pol/ nigga would know

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397034]

>When Hitler elaborated on the Grail, which he conceived as a path leading from unthinking dullness, through doubt, to spiritual awakening, the word most frequently on his lips was “Initiation”. Many times he reeled off the ascending grades on the way to the achievement of higher levels of consciousness, disclosing the meaning of the heraldry and armorial insignia of the Knights, which he interpreted as representing the various stages they had attained in the quest for the Grail.
>The black Raven was the sign of the First Degree, he explained, because the Raven signified the Messenger of the Grail and the finger of fate which led man to it. The Second Degree was symbolised by the Peacock, its many splendoured plumage demonstrating the capacity for the many coloured imaginative or picture building powers.
>The Swan was the sign of the Third Degree because the novice who sought to attain it had to sing the Swan Song. That is, he had to die to his own selfish desires and weaknesses to serve the higher aims of his race.
>The Fourth Degree had been given the symbol of the Pelican, the bird which wounds its own breast to feed its young. Such an initiate, concluded Hitler, lived for the perpetuation of his own people and dedicated himself to the nurturing of its youth.
>The Lion meant that a man had attained the Fifth Degree and unified his consciousness with the Folk-Spirit of his race. He spoke as the vessel of that Folk-Spirit. Such a man had become the Messianic Leader of his people.

>And, according to Hitler’s unchristian interpretation of the Grail symbolism, the highest degree merited the Emblem of the Eagle, for the Initiate had now developed the loftiest powers and faculties attainable to man. He could now assume a world- historic destiny.

[Anonymous No.20397037]

>>20397027
What a coincidence, I was just talking to Hitler on the orb.

[Anonymous No.20397040]

>>20395813
whatever happens, do not give the last drop of your blood to the grail

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397043]

>>20397034
People on /pol/ argue whether Hitler was a pagan or a Christian or whatever, but the real niggaz know Hitler was a Wagnerfag first and foremost. When he lived in Linz, he was a total poorfag but still managed to scrape by and catch all the Wagner operas, which mainly revolved around the theme of the ‘Quest for the Grail’. According to Hitler’s roommate at the time, August Kubizek, after attending Parsifal he was in pure ecstasy and climbed a hilltop and had a mystical moment. Decades later when he met up with Kubizek again as Führer, he told him that it was at that moment he knew his fate was decided. From that point onwards, Hitler studied the Grail mystery relentlessly, mostly basing it off Wolfram von Eschenbach’s work ‘Parzival’.

[Anonymous No.20397048]

>>20397037
>Haku Zynkyoku
too redpilled for this site

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397080]

I had a wild experience related reading the book last night

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397112]

>>20397080
Last night I was chilling in a hotel lounge/restaurant area reading ‘The Mystery of the Grail’. For those who haven’t read it, the tldr of the book is about how Arthurian /lit/ is not just about fantastical adventures, but rather about a legit spiritual (Hyperborean) tradition that was concealed in literary form so seething Catholic Priests wouldn’t burn them. The real initiatic quest can be read “between the lines”.
So I’m in motherfuckkn Indiana, where nothing but country music is played over the speakers where I’m sitting. Just Brad Paisley and “and a cold beer on a Friday night” shit on repeat after repeat…
I’m sitting their for hours straight, completely immersed in the reading.
At the end of my reading, I came to finally understand the Ghibeline ideal and the “Kingdom of the Grail” and at that moment, all of the sudden
Wagner’s grail music started playing out of no where (I think it was Siegfried’s Funeral March, can’t remember). But it was only for like 5 seconds! Then it cut back to country music and I could hear other patrons say “what just happened?!?”

[Anonymous No.20397141]

>>20397034
A black two-headed Eagle is GOD; even a Black Triangle is He. In His claws He beareth a sword; yea, a sharp sword is held therein.
This Eagle is burnt up in the Great Fire; yet not a feather is scorched. This Eagle is swallowed up in the Great Sea; yet not a feather is wetted. so flieth He in the air, and lighteth upon the earth at His pleasure.
So spake IACOBUS BURGUNDUS MOLENSIS the Grand Master of the Temple; and of the GOD that is Ass-headed did he dare not speak.

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397162]

>>20397141
>A black two-headed Eagle is GOD
I knew it

[Anonymous No.20397257]

>>20397112
Epic if true.

[Anonymous No.20397273]

>>20397162

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397302]

>>20397257
Yes, it was a weird experience. But I had the biggest grin on my face knowing that It was a sign from Allah.

Anyways, I shall now post interesting quotes from the book

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397361]

Oh btw to this chud from a couple weeks ago
>>/lit/thread/S20306808#p20312082

I knew I was right. He added the “Aryan” element in another book somewhere but here are the first three:
>Overall, according to the common perception (which, as a starting point, is correct), the medieval civilization was shaped by three elements: Northern-pagan, Christian, and Roman. The first played a decisive role in regard to the ethics, lifestyle, and social structure. The feudal regime, the knightly morals, and the civilization of the courts, the original substance that engendered the crusading spirit are inconceivable without a reference to Nordic-pagan blood and spirit.
>Thus we may speak of a state of an involutive latency of the Nordic tradition. But as soon as contact with Christianity and with the symbol of Rome occurred, a different condition ensued; this contact had a galvanizing effect. In spite of everything, Christianity revived the generic sense of a supernatural transcendence. The Roman symbol offered the idea of a universal REGNUM, of an ‘aeternitas’ carried by an imperial power. All this integrated the Nordic substance and provided superior reference points to its warrior ethos, so much as to gradually usher in one of those cycles of restoration that I have labeled “heroic” in a special sense.

[Dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397385]

Once the chosen knight arrives at the castle, he directly addresses the king and asks in an almost brutal fashion, skipping every ceremonial form,
>”Where is the Grail?”
Meaning:
>”Where is the power of which you should be the representative?”
Once this question is asked, a miracle ensues.

[Strange Love No.20397415]

>>20397385

>Once this question is asked, a miracle ensues.

Gotta try that out one day. :)

[Anonymous No.20397505]

1. This is the secret of the Holy Graal, that is the sacred vessel of our Lady the Scarlet Woman, Babalon the Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos, that rideth upon our Lord the Beast.

2. Thou shalt drain out thy blood that is thy life into the golden cup of her fornication.

3. Thou shalt mingle thy life with the universal life. Thou shalt keep not back one drop.

4. Then shall thy brain be dumb, and thy heart beat no more, and all thy life shall go from thee; and thou shalt be cast out upon the midden, and the birds of the air shall feed upon thy flesh, and thou bones shall whiten in the sun.

5. Then shall the winds gather themselves together, and bear thee up as it were a little heap of dust in a sheet that hath four corners, and they shall give it unto the guardians of the abyss.

6. And because there is no life therein, the guardians of the abyss shall bid the angels of the winds pass by. And the angels shall lay thy dust in the City of Pyramids, and the name thereof shall be no more.

The blood the adept drains into the Cup symbolizes the personality or ego that must be annihilated in order to traverse the Abyss. As stated in Liber ABA, “…the Ego-idea must be ruthlessly rooted out before Understanding can be attained.”

This blood is sometimes referred to as the blood of the saints, a saint being one who sacrifices everything, even his life, in devotion to a deity or the principle of enlightenment. “Blessed are the saints, that their blood is mingled in the cup, and can never be separate any more.”

To aid him in accomplishing this task, Liber Cheth advises the adept to “divest thyself of all goods,” specifically identified in the text as wealth, health and love. The Cup of Babalon is the Universal Womb, and the blood therein is the Water of Universal Life. When the adept mingles his blood with the blood in the cup, he dissolves his ego in the Universal Life. The annihilation of the Ego must be absolute or else there will be dire consequences:

11. For if thou dost not this with thy will, then shall We do this despite thy will. So that thou attain to the Sacrament of the Graal in the Chapel of Abominations.

12. And behold! if by stealth thou keep unto thyself one thought of thine, then thou shalt be cast out into the abyss for ever; and thou shalt be the lonely one, the eater of dung, the afflicted in the Day of Be-with-Us.

[Anonymous No.20397512]

When all of the ego-blood is drained from the adept, he dies and his body is left to decay in the Sun. The fourth verse of Liber Cheth describes the alchemical process of putrefaction, the spiritual or symbolic death of gross matter that must occur in order for the soul or spirit to be purified and reborn.

The little pile of dust that remains is the essential essence of the adept, his True self. It is the “life which has no consciousness of ‘I’”, now no longer fettered by the ego. The dust is gathered in a sheet with four corners, which represents the position of the Abyss between the ideal and the actual in a geometrical sense. For the sheet is a plane, that which is attributed to Binah in the Naples Arrangement, yet it has four corners, and is thus a square, a symbol of Chesed and manifestation.

This dust is carried by the “angels of the winds” and given to the guardians of the abyss, and because there “no life therein,” the guardians allow it to pass to the City of the Pyramids in Binah. There the adept is

“…received and reconstructed in the Third Order, as a Babe in the womb of our Lady BABALON, under the Night of PAN, to grow up to be Himself wholly and truly as He was not previously…”

The adept is reborn in the Cup of Babalon from the Water of Universal Life. His name, a symbol of the ego or “I” consciousness, “shall be no more,” for in Binah the adept becomes NEMO, Latin for “no man.”

The formula of the Cup of Babalon can be summarized as follows: The adept drains his blood (ego) into the Cup of Babalon, mingling it with the Water of Universal Life. He dies and putrefies into a little pile of dust (the True Self). This dust is carried across the Abyss, and because there is “no life therein” (no ego), the dust is allowed to pass to Binah. There the adept is reborn as NEMO in the Cup (womb) of Babalon.

This completes our brief analysis of the formula of the Cup of Babalon. Further examination and contemplation of The Chariot and Liber Cheth is highly recommended for a more perfect understanding of the Mysteries of Babalon.

[Anonymous No.20397544]

>>20397505
>>20397512
Smells like…
>*sniff*
>*SNIFF*
Counter-initiation…

[Anonymous No.20397557]

Thou shalt offer all thou art and all thou hast at my altar, withholding nothing. And thou shalt be smitten full sore and thereafter thou shalt be outcast and accursed, a lonely wanderer in abominable places.

I shall come again, in the form thou knowest. Now it shall be thy blood.

The altar is aright, and the robe.

The perfume is sandal, and the cloth green and gold. There is my cup, our book, and thy dagger.

There is a flame.

The sigil of devotion. Be it consecrated, be it true, be it daily affirmed. I am not scorned. Thy love is to me. Procure a disk of copper, in diameter three inches paint thereon the field blue the star gold of me, BABALON.

It shall be my talisman. Consecrate with the supreme rituals of the word and the cup.

[Anonymous No.20397566]

What are some good books that examine the symbolism/deeper meaning of the grail myth beside Evola's one?

[Anonymous No.20397581]

>>20397544
All is in thy hands, all power, all hope, all future.

One came as a man, and was weak and failed.

One came as a woman, and was foolish, and failed.

But thou art beyond man and woman, my star is in thee, and thou shalt avail.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20397587]

>>20397566
Spear of Destiny
IYKYK

[Anonymous No.20397759]

>>20395704
Something I've found somewhat amusing about Traditionalists is the refusal to accept the idea that pre-figurement of Christ in other religions could be possible.
Any explanation but that.

Also would any of you know which Sufi sect Guenon was a part of? Not something I've encountered as of yet.

[Anonymous No.20397768]

>>20397759
"""Traditionalists""" are generally coping that their tradition is just counter-tradition to the primordial tradition

[Anonymous No.20397776]

>>20397759
>would any of you know which Sufi sect Guenon was a part of?
not Adawiyya, because that would've been based

[Anonymous No.20397798]

>>20397776
Just found out he founded a masonic lodge in France
The absolute state

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397815]

Alright I will elaborate a tad on the symbolism of the graal and its relation to the pentagram, though I shall not elaborate fully on the pentagram due to the amount of symbolism behind it being so multifaceted that it would simply take too long.

First let us understand the four basic tools common to western ceremonial magic for understanding two of these is essential to this mystery. These are

The Wand
The Cup/chalice
The Knife/sword
The Pentacle/pentagram/disk

These four correspond to the letters of the Name of YHVH, itself which corresponds to Various ontological and phenomenological positions, of which I shall now outline.

Y, the Consciousness(identified with the Will of God, the ontological will.), the Wand, the Father.
H, the perception itself, the Cup, the mother.
V, the rational as numerator, divider, that which defines self and other, the blade, the Son.
H=the thing perceived, the perception, the Daughter.

Thus is the hermetic and kabbalistic doctrine that exists in both Hegel and Schopenhauer that consciousness acting upon the empty perception produces representation’s multiplicity resulting in our experience of things in particular. (The dialectic, Will being reborn as representation.)

Now then, how do we liken the cup to perception, for the perception itself is empty of contents, being the ground of phenomena, prior to experienced things, being the faculty itself, it is like a cup that holds fluids, the fluids herein being the varieties of experiences of which the pure unchanging is the perception itself, this is the key to why parsifal and Galahad are the knights associated with actually attaining the grail. For they represent purity of the Will, stainless undifferentiating conscious, the virtuous fool which is at once symbolic of the phallus as the creative principle which lies as the origin of the ground of phenomena. Thus the graal myth is concerning the origin of the many things from the One God and its origin in the singular Will of God.

Pic related is from Stephen flowers a major adept of the temple of set and the book is really him elaborating on the inner lore of the order of the trapezoid, the Trapezoid is identical to the symbol of the graal on account of that it is the Image of a cup being poured out, further on account of it being the square/cube thus the totality of phenomena.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397822]

>>20397815
So what is the inverse pentagram and its relation to this symbol? The grail is the faculty of perception and the pentagram the perceived thing. (the microcosm of perception, the human as receptacle to the Will of God in his life.) this relationship is likened to the birth process, if the Will/conscious is the phallus, then the ground of perception is the womb of nature, the sword/knife is the division of phenomena into categories of self and other and then broader categories in general, thus this is the multiplicity and division of experiences, the range of knowledge, and the resultant experience is the child, the birth, the reproduced end result.

There are multiple formulae by which this arrangement is used, the common and more monist option of reversing birth, which is to say, to attain the grail is to trace each individual perception and aspect of knowledge as being identical to the ground of phenomena and to the unity of the One, the trapezoid is identical to the ashlar, the imperfect pyramid yet to be capped, when one traces the many back to the one, this “caps” the trapezoid and their trapezoid becomes the pyramid, man attains spiritual adepthood.

But, there are other usages of this formula, for the graal is the key to effectively all magic and sorcery. Magic, as understood and explained in the emerald tablet formula is to return to the one via this reduction process, and then once you have reached the one, your will and the will of God reconcile, yours being absorbed into the divine will, then you descend back down from the one, returning your conceptions and perceptions to the multiplicity while maintaining the gnosis of the one and their unity of your will with his, thus your unified will impregnates the ground of phenomena, modifying the rational experience, resulting in a miracle, a specific perception to arise in accordance with the Will of God and man. (I should note the pentagram is eldest found in the city of Ur from which Abraham lived, and was used there to mean royal authority.)

Now this is well and good, but there are two further usages of this formula, one is holy and left hand path, the other is the key to black magic and why black magic/sorcery is practically speaking evil and against God ontologically and practically.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397828]

>>20397822
It is said the grail was used by Christ or the drops of his blood fell into the cup, as is obvious to all, this is speaking of Eucharist. About how the wine of the Eucharist is transmuted into the blood of Christ, which is to say, the ground of phenomena’s reliance upon and origin from the one God is revealed and all of perception reveals the glory of God. This is the core theory behind the magical usage of Eucharist, that by filling the Will of God as a Will of recognition, you purify the thing by seeing the glory/form of God within it, allegorically think of it like this, if all of the platonic forms were mirrors and each was revealed by the light of God, you are seeing the light of God reflect off each of the platonic forms as both the origin and revealing force behind them.

This formula is the core of the holy vamachara process of which the body of work we have from Iamblichus elaborates in detail upon and the various grimoires the specific practices of this, which is to say, the methodological recognition of the Will of God manifest through the Ground, being imbued into certain categories of thought/perception, in order to see a specific aspect or thing in perception as the One God. This is the methodology of theurgy and of proper idol creation.

In both of the above methodologies the graal/trapezoid is “capped” and God’s will manifest, in the first with magic a specific miracle/will of God is made manifest, in the latter we endeavor an act of demiurgy to ensoul the Godhead and thus the inverted pentagram is the symbol of God-in-flesh/perception. This is why certain Christian magician groups will use the inverse pentagram as the symbol of Christ.

Now this leaves us with the final applications of this which is sorcery/black magic. As we have established the primary mechanism by which result magic occurs is Will/conscious through the ground producing representation, but what is done when the sorcerer does not wish to align with the Will of God? When he wishes evil? He has two options, one is the more folk methodology which is much more random in nature, the latter is the initiatic method performed by the proper witch and black magician.

In the more folk methodology, you replace the Will of God via giving instead corespondent and aggregated replacements. What do I mean by this?

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397833]

>>20397828
The first and easiest option is to use another aspect of the pentagram formula as its role as Venus and Lucifer, of which I shall not overly explain for that is an even more complex topic, but I will say quickly that if one traces the path of Venus in the night sky it will produce an astrological pentagram, further the Apple if cut in half reveals the pentagram, and the pentagram is the symbol of the five planets with the luminaries unified in the center.

In any case, the formula corresponds human desire via nonduality as being identical with the Will of God in concealment but also with emotions, thus the fiery emotions of man can be harvested to give a lackluster replacement for the Will of God, to explain this phenomenologically, conscious is always conscious of something (intentionality in the husserlian sense.) and to have intentionally concerning something is to have care(in the Heidegger sense, as the structuring principle of being.) and to care about something is identical to have an active desire towards that thing (see deleuze on desire.)

Thus desire can be said to always formulate the basis of perception as a kind of fuel, by which the totality of perceptions are stained, thus the desire and emotions can be used. The more wholesome form of this is to cultivate high amounts of emotion and desire in one’s self and use this as the catalyst for the sorcerous result. This is common in tantrik sorcery. The latter more diabolical usage of the desire complex ties into the second means by which the non-unitiated black magician/witch operates.

Cont

[Anonymous No.20397835]

>>20397815
finally

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397838]

>>20397833
The various alchemical tomes tell us the major key to production of the gold (the magical unity of wills in this case.) is that the cauldron (the key alchemical tool which is, mind you, also the witches cauldron.) is the usage of gluten extracted from the eagle being placed into the cauldron, which is to say, gluten is symbolic of Semen, which is both literal semen but also the Will/conscious force we have spoken of, thus the black magician may cultivate using his sexual fluids and using the womb of a woman or various vessels by which he may use literal semen to reflect the Will/creative power, or, the further darker of these men, will extract gluten directly, both from herbal and animal parts yes, but the richest sources are the extreme amounts of emotion, fear of the unknown is best on account of it being such an intense emotion and because it is directionless thus the Will/desire can be stained. This is why the temple of set studies propaganda and fear and believes their magic operates primarily on producing fear in others via propaganda and mental warfare, and considering their head helped developed the USA’s tactics in psychological warfare and their documents claim they have produced intentionally the satanic panic, it is important to consider.

Thus they may extract extreme emotions, or they may artificially release the components in order to gain the gluten, which is to say, the ritual sacrifice of animals to use the Will and life in them for the ritual, or at the most extreme the ritual slaying of a child. (Note there are a multitude of replacements by which black magicians have devised, the most common being the creation of a symbolic child via a sexual ritual with their partner and then the placing of the fluids in a vessel wherein they are then mixed with various ingredients, prayed upon, rituals performed upon and so forth, the resultant substance is referred to as the elixir vitae and Elixir Rubeus, which is to say, the elixir of life and ruby elixir effectively. This is then either consumed or burnt, the ashes of it may then be consumed or used in other methods.)

This gluten being extracted they do not recognize god or the Will of God, but stain the perception, thus their results are either totally illusionary or are simultaneously true but also born of their mental Delusions. These methods boost the chances of demon possession, obsession, various mental illnesses arising, the building of “inflata” which is to say, ego/pride/vanity beyond its actual capacity.


Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397845]

>>20397838
The final method is the black magician methodology of initiation which operates via the so called “black man of the cross roads” the “horned devil” and so forth, the most intellectual of these groups identify this as Christ in hell/on Saturday and as shiva/rudra and other similar forms. The methodology employed is they trace their own ego back to the ground of phenomena, and see at once their own ego unify with the ground of perception,akin symbolically to a fetus in the womb, and they recognize at once that their ego and rational faculties are still existent here, but existent as the “pure experience “ of William James, which is to say, in samadhi, perfect undifferentiation, which is to say, the divine forms are covered in darkness and this darkness is being constituted as the One God.

They at once see the co-dependence of the dark void, of sunyata, of the faculty of perception, with experience, and recognize that this devil, this ego, is an idol of God, is a miniature of God, thus the gluten production occurs in the microcosmic level of man, which is to say, the Will of God that burns in the heart of man is harnessed, thus the God of the heart which is identified with the ego is worshiped. This is the method of “Set” as the brother who also is identical to Horus. These black magicians having reached this point become identical to Set, thus gain the capacity to descend as the inverted pentagram of unified Will without capping the stone with the Will of God, but instead, manifesting their particular wills and desires as identified with the devil-idol-ego which is ultimately the image of God in man. (This ties into the antimony formula and the ability of lead to self-ignite.)

This is the basic explanation of the usages of the graal.

[Anonymous No.20397851]

>>20397822
>there are other usages of this formula, for the graal is the key to effectively all magic and sorcery. Magic, as understood and explained in the emerald tablet formula is to return to the one via this reduction process, and then once you have reached the one, your will and the will of God reconcile, yours being absorbed into the divine will, then you descend back down from the one, returning your conceptions and perceptions to the multiplicity while maintaining the gnosis of the one and their unity of your will with his, thus your unified will impregnates the ground of phenomena, modifying the rational experience, resulting in a miracle, a specific perception to arise in accordance with the Will of God and man.
>>20397505
>>20397512
this would be a great opportunity to elaborate on the Black Brotherhood of the Abyss

[Anonymous No.20397859]

>>20396495
Thanks, anon. HT may honestly be up my alley based on this, the esoteric and spiritual stuff is the main draw of Evola to me personally (/x/ is what sparked my interest in him). Also thanks for the rec on Mask and Face, I haven't really seen it discussed at all and it sounds like something I'd really enjoy

[Anonymous No.20397860]

>>20397833
>the Apple
which is a rose and ties in to the tree of knowledge and the mystery of the Rose Cross

[Anonymous No.20397866]

>>20397845
>>20397851
nvm

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397874]

>>20397845
I should note that there are methods to artificially meet the initiatory devil, the crossroads devil is one means, certain goddesses such as hecate who are personifications of both the graal and pentagram and the hypotenuse of the triangle (which the Pythagoreans among us here would know, makes her the anima mundi.) likewise there are even more wrathful folk methodologies which conjure the devil such as the toad bone ritual which we see examples of in Ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, among anglos, Zoroastrians and other such, if not the toad ritual the toad symbolism is found in these and other groups, by which its sacrifice and certain means the devil is conjured and wrestled with until he gives the initiation. We even see a variant of this in the writings of pliny.

>>20397851
It is a long winded topic because it at once doesn’t exist whatsoever as Crowley speaks of it, but the actual corespondent idea is a complex one again related to the harsher forms of western vamachara.

[Anonymous No.20397877]

>>20397860
>le rose cross
Do people actually take this seriously? The "rosicrucian" nonsense was literally proven to be a larp and a hoax

[Anonymous No.20397884]

>>20397874
>harsher forms of western vamachara
please continue

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397891]

>>20397860
> ties in to the tree of knowledge and the mystery of the Rose Cross

Not so, the fruit of the tree of knowledge in Hebrew is just fruit in generic and the most traditional sources say it is either grapes, pomegranate or a now lost fruit or simply don’t identify. But you are closer with the rose.

The identification of the rose with spirit but also sexual love is key, eventually I need to get to writing down an essay on the rose, for as far I know, the rose is the symbol we have which is representative of meaning itself, being probably the most faceted simple symbol we have. But yeah again, Venus and the apple is a common corespondent you can find it in the PGM for example.

>>20397866
It’s actually different but I don’t feel like writing up another essay right now kek.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397893]

>>20397884
Eh if the threads still up later or tomorrow I’ll probably go into it.

[Anonymous No.20397907]

>>20397891
>pomegranate and not an apple
yeah, yeah.. there's still a reason why the apple has been """falsely""" equated with the fruit of the tree of knowledge
>Papyri Graecae Magicae
where?
>don’t feel like writing up another essay right now kek
just copy + paste some Grant m8

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397919]

>>20397907
> just copy + paste some Grant m8

Reading grant straight and not following all of his sources and nothing cross referencing with bertiaux and the other related folks is illogical. Grant also mixes fiction into his accounts which while kino disguises much.

[Anonymous No.20397925]

would do it myself, but i only own a german translation of "Nightside of Eden"

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397926]

>>20397919

[Anonymous No.20397934]

>>20397919
>>20397926
appreciated

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397936]

>>20397919

>>20397925
You can find all of his books online in English, check libgen and VK and the temple of Solomon library.

Night side of Eden is probably his work book though, all of his work concerning qlippoth deserves to go in the garbage. He didn’t have actual Hebrew sources and basically makes the qlippoth out to be the polar opposite of what they actually are.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397939]

>>20397936

>>20397934
No problem

[Anonymous No.20397951]

>>20395704
You want to be initiated into some high-level shit, even if you won't like it because it's Christian and not LARPagan?

Percival actually succeeds in finding the Grail once he repents for his sins and receives Holy Communion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhfvmfsEANI

[Anonymous No.20397955]

>>20397936
i myself found his commentary on the tunnels of set quite useful

>>20397951
i'm islamic, brother, i don't care

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397956]

>>20397951
Ye, the blood of the graal is communion.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397964]

>>20397955
Trust me his mapping, and I say this not just from study but from practice, ritual work, meditation, evocation and examination of the received lit that grant has, that the model grant gives does more harm than good for these zones and in fact bertiaux’s Meon is far and away the superior model and this Meon model is actually identical to an Islamic model of this same zone which we have, specifically Ayn al-Quzat Hamadani’s writings on the Ghayb.

Now of course I think my own personal models and developments superior but that’s not really fair, so I would recommend study of and usage of either of these two as the Meon conception adheres much more closer to what you’re actually interacting with ontologically. There is also a methodology in the netra tantra for piercing them superior to anything written in the typhonian tradition.

[Anonymous No.20397968]

>>20397939
got an opinion on the Liber Azerate and the sigil magic used by the TOTBL?

[Anonymous No.20397973]

>>20397964
>Meon is far and away the superior model and this Meon model is actually identical to an Islamic model of this same zone which we have, specifically Ayn al-Quzat Hamadani’s writings on the Ghayb.
i'm intruiged, my practice of vamamarga has lead me to islamic mysticism for some reason

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397975]

>>20397968
Incredibly low, I’ve read them and studied the sabbatean sources and others such they’re based on, as well as conjured their spirits in ceremonial evocation. As a whole I find the temple of black light to be a poor man’s cultus sabbati.

I also don’t respect O9A(I do however respect their leader as both clearly an adept and a manipulator of his organization, thus clearly an effective black magician.)

[Anonymous No.20397983]

>pupil of al-Ghazali
neat

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397985]

>>20397973
Begin here.

https://archive.org/details/BeyondDeathByHamadhani

I also recommend the writings of Subrawardi and hallaj.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20397987]

>>20397983
From Wikipedia concerning his teacher.

> Ahmad Ghazālī (Persian: احمد غزالی; full name Majd al-Dīn Abū al-Fotuḥ Aḥmad Ghazālī) was a Sunni Muslim Persian Sufi mystic, writer, preacher and the head of Al-Nizamiyya of Baghdad (c. 1061–1123 or 1126).[1] He is best known in the history of Islam for his ideas on love and the meaning of love,[2] expressed primarily in the book Sawāneḥ. Ahmad Ghazali was among the Sunni Muslim mystics who regarded Iblis as the paragon of lovers in self sacrifice for refusing to bow down to Adam out of pure devotion to God

[Anonymous No.20397993]

>>20397985
as far as i can tell, receiving divine revelation through Azazel in a dream would be in accordance with the teachings of Islam

however, how does one practice vamachara in the context of Islam? how about the ceremonial use of alcohol and pork for example?
is there an equivalent to the five M rite?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398020]

>>20397993
>as far as i can tell, receiving divine revelation through Azazel in a dream would be in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

Superior to this is general dream practices of which sufis have a tradition of cultivating spiritual dreams with certain prayer recitation and meditations and visualizations prior, in which a multitude of spirits can be seen, the highest of which being Muhammad.

>however, how does one practice vamachara in the context of Islam? how about the ceremonial use of alcohol and pork for example?

Once more as I’ve said before, Vamachara is most expressed with the artists, the usage of wine is a famous example and as well as temporary acts of idolatry and even affirmation of the self as god, thus bayazid asked to be killed for during his mystical states he declared himself truth and allah, I shall post a story from the Sufi writer Attar which summarizes the methodology sufis use in vamachara.


The Shaikh San'an was a saintly man in his day, and had perfected himself to a high degree. For fifty years he had remained in his retreat with four hundred disciples, who worked on themselves day and night. He had great know- Ir dge, and benefited by outer and inner revelation. Much of his life had been spent in making pilgrimages to Mecca. His prayers and fasts were without number and he omitted none of the practices of the Sunnites. He could work miracles, and his breath healed the sick and depressed.
One night he dreamed that he went from Mecca to Greece and there worshipped an idol; and waking grief-stricken from this oppressive dream he said to his disciples ' I must
:
set out at once for Greece to see if I can discover the meaning of this dream.'
With his four hundred disciples he left the Ka'aba and in time arrived in Greece. They travelled from end to end of that country, and one day by chance came to where a young girl was sitting on a balcony. This girl was a Christian, and the expression of her face showed that she possessed the faculty of pondering on the things of God. Her beauty was like the sun in splendour, and her dignity as the Signs of the Zodiac. From jealousy of her radiance the morning star loitered above her house. Who caught his heart in her hair put on the belt of a Christian; whose desire the light on the ruby of her lips lost his head. The morn took on a darker tint because of her black hair, the land of Greece wrinkled up because of the beauty of her freckles. Her two eyes were a lure for lovers; her arched brows formed tender sickles over twin moons. When power lighted the pupils of her eyes a hundred hearts became her prey. Her face sparkled like a living flame, and the moist rubies of her lips could make a whole world thirst. Her languorous lashes were a hundred daggers, and her mouth was so small that even words could not pass.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398024]

>>20398020
Her waist, slender as a hair, was
squeezed through her zunnar; and the silver dimple of her chin was as vivifying as the discourses of Jesus.
When she lifted a corner of her veil the heart of the shaikh took fire; and a single hair bound his loins with a hundred zunnars. He could not take his eyes from this young Christian, and such was his love that his will slipped from his hands. Unbelief from her hair strewed itself on his faith. He cried out : 'Oh, how terrible is this love that I have for her. When religion leaves you, of what good is the heart!'
When his companions understood what had happened, and saw the state he was in, they held their heads in their hands. Some began to reason with him, but he refused to listen. He could only stand day and night, his eyes fixed on the balcony and his mouth open. The stars that glowed like lamps borrowed heat from this holy man whose heart was on fire. His love grew until he was beside himself. 'O Lord,' he prayed, 'in my life I have fasted and suffered, but never have I suffered like this ; I am in torment. the night is as long and as black as her hair. Where is the lamp of Heaven? Have my sighs extinguished it or has it hidden itself from jealousy? Where is my good fortune? Why does it not help me to get the love of this girl? Where is my reason to make use of my knowledge ?

Where is my hand to put dust on my head? Where is my foot to walk to my beloved, and my eye to see her face? Where is my beloved to give me her heart? What is this love, this grief, this pain?'
The friends of the shaikh came again to him. One said : *0 worthy shaikh, lift yourself up and drive away this temptation. Take hold of yourself and perform the ordained ablutions.' He replied: 'Do you not know that this night I have made a hundred ablutions, and with my heart's blood?' Another said: 'Where is your chaplet? How can you pray without it?' He replied: 'I have thrown away my chaplet so that I may girdle myself with a Christian zunnar.' Another

said : 0 saintly old man, if you have sinned repent without
delay.' 'I repent now,' he replied, 'of having followed the
true law, and I only wish to give up that absurdity.' Another
said: 'Leave this place and go and worship God.' He
replied ' If my idol were here it would become me to bow :
down before her.' Another said: 'Then, you will not even
try to repent! Are you no longer a follower of Islam?' The
shaikhreplied 'No one repents more than I who was not in love until now.' Another said: 'The infernal regions are waiting for you if you continue on this path; but watch yourself, and you will avoid them.' He replied: 'If hell is there it is only from my sighs, which would feed seven hells.'
Seeing that their words produced no effect on the shaikh, although they pleaded with him all night, his friends went away.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398026]

>>20398024
Meanwhile the Turk of the Morning, with sabre and golden buckler, cut off the head of Black Night, so that the world of illusion was bathed in the radiance of the Sun. The shaikh, plaything of his love, wandered with the dogs, and for a month sat in the street hoping to see her face. The dust was his bed and her doorstep his pillow.
Then the beautiful Christian, seeing that he was hopelessly in love, veiled herself, and went out and said to him: 'O shaikh, how is it that you, an ascetic, are so drunk with the wine of polytheism, and sit in a Christian street in such a state? If you adore me like this you will go mad.' The shaikh replied: 'It is because you have stolen my heart. Either give it back or accept my love. If you wish I will lay down my life for you, but you may restore that life by a touch of your lips. Because of you my heart is on fire. I have shed tears Like rain and my eyes have lost their sight. Where my heart was there is only blood. If I were united to you my life would be restored. You are the sun, I the shadow. I am a lost man, but if you will incUne to me I will take under my
wing the seven cupolas of the world. Do not leave me, implore you !

'O you old driveller!' she said, 'aren't you ashamed to use camphor for your winding sheet? You should blush for suggesting intimacy with me with your cold breath! You had better wrap yourself in a shroud than spend your time on me. You cannot inspire love. Go away!'
:
The shaikh replied * Say what you will, I still love you.
What does it matter whether one is young or old, love affects all hearts.'
:
She said ' very well, if you are not to be denied ,listen to me. You must wash your hands of Islam; for love which is not identified with its beloved is only colour and perfume.' He said ' I will do all that you wish. I will undertake all
:
that you command, you, whose body is like silver. I am your slave. Put a lock of your hair on my neck to remind me of my slavery.'
'If you are a man of action,' said the young Christian, 'you must do four things : prostrate yourself before the idols, burn the Koran, drink wine, and shut your eyes to your religion.'
He said ' I will drink wine to your beauty but the other
:
three things I cannot do.' 'Very well,' she said, 'come and drink wine with me, then you will soon accept the other conditions.'
She led him to a temple of magicians, where he saw a very strange gathering. They sat down to a banquet at which the hostess was distinguished by her beauty. His beloved handed him a cup of wine, and when he took it and looked at the smiling rubies of her lips, like two lids of a casket, the fire blazed in his heart and a stream of blood rushed to his eyes. He tried to recall the sacred books he had read and written on religion, and the Koran that he knew so well; but when the wine passed from the cup into his stomach he forgot them all;

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398031]

>>20398024
his spiritual knowledge was washed away. He lost his free will and let slip his heart from his hand. When he tried to put his hand on her neck, she said: 'You only pretend to love. You do not understand the mystery of love.

If you are sure of your love you may find the way to my curled locks. Lose yourself in unbelief by the way of my tangled ringlets; follow the locks of my hair ,and you may put your hand on my neck. But if you do not wish to follow my way, get up and go; and take the cloak and staff of a faquir.'
At this, the amorous shaikh was crestfallen; and now he yielded without more ado to his destiny. The wine he had drunk made his head as uncertain as a compass. The wine was old and his love was young. How could he have been otherwise than drunk and in love?
'O Splendour of the Moon,' he said, 'tell me what you wish. If I was not an idolater before I lost my wits, now that I am drunk I will burn the Koran before the idol.'
The young beauty said: 'You are now really my man. You are worthy of me. Till now you were uncooked in love, but having acquired experience you are roasted. Good!'
When the Christians heard that the shaikh had embraced their faith they carried him, still drunk, into the church and told him to girdle himself with a zunnar. He did this and threw his dervnsh mantle into the fire, forsook the Faith, and delivered himself up to the practices of the Christian religion.
He said to the girl: 'O charming lady, no one has ever done as much for a woman as I have done. I have wor- shipped your idols, I have drunk wine, and I have given up the true Faith. All this I have done for love of you, and that I may have you.'
Again she said to him: 'Old driveller, slave of love, how can a woman such as I be united to a faquir? I need silver and gold, and since you have none, take your head and go.'
The shaikh said : 'O lovely woman, your body is a cypress and your breasts are silver. If you repulse me you will drive me to despair. The thought of possessing you has thrown me into a turmoil. On account of you my friends have

become my enemies. As you are, so are they; what shall I do? O my beloved, I had rather be in hell with you than in paradise without you.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398037]

>>20398026
At last she relented, and the shaikh became her man, and she too began to feel the flame of love. But to try him further she said: 'Now, for my dowry, O imperfect man, go and look after my herd of pigs for the space of a year, and then we shall pass our lives together in joy or sadness!' Without a protest, this shaikh of the Ka'aba, this saint, resigned him- self to becoming a hog-ward.
In the nature of each of us there are a hundred pigs. O you, who are non-entities, you are thinking only of the danger that the shaikh was in ! The danger is to be found in each one of us, and it raises its head from the moment we start out on the path of self-knowledge. If you do not know your own pigs then you do not know the Path. But if you do set out you will meet a thousand pigs—a thousand idols. Drive away these pigs, burn these idols on the plain of love ; or else be like the shaikh, dishonoured by love.
Well, then, when the news spread that the shaikh had become a Christian, his companions were in great distress and all but one went away, who said to him: 'Tell us the secret of this matter so that we may become Christians with you. We do not wish you to remain an apostate alone, so we will take the Christian zunnar. If you do not agree we shall return to the Ka'aba and spend our time in prayer in order not to see that which we- see now.'
The shaikh said: 'My soul is full of sadness. Go where your wishes carry you. As for me, the church is my place, and the young Christian my destiny. Do you know why you are free? It is because you are not in my position. If you were, I should have a companion in my unhappy love. Re- turn then, dear friend, to the Ka'aba, for no one can share my present state. If they should ask about me say: "His eyes are full of blood, his mouth full of poison; he remains


(I shall post the remainder as images.

[Anonymous No.20398040]

>>20397987
>younger brother of Al-Ghazali
>trained Adi ibn Musafir in Sufism
jackpot

does he write about Iblis in Sawaneh?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398041]

>>20398037

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398047]

>>20398041

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398053]

>>20398047

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398056]

>>20398053

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398060]

>>20398056
Final page, this story if studied carefully contains the whole Sufi vamachara formula step by step.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398076]

>>20398040
If memory serves he does but rather briefly, if you want the best elaboration on this topic read al hallaj’s short work the tawasin, alternatively here just read the ghazali book it’s rather short.

http://www.sufi.ir/books/download/english/ahmad-ghazali-en/sawanih-en.pdf

However quzat’s writing has the most philosophical and legal arguments for iblis as greatest keeper of Tawhid.

[Anonymous No.20398080]

>>20398041
>>20398047
>>20398053
>>20398056
>>20398060
>jaws of the crocodile
>herd of pigs
amazing stuff, thanks a lot - what's the source?

also respond here pl0x ~>>20398040

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398081]

>>20398080
Conference of the birds by Attar, itself modeled on a work by ahmad ghazali

[Anonymous No.20398082]

Just re-read this for the 6th time last week. I am looking forward to this. Maybe we can continue with other works in the future as well.

[Anonymous No.20398085]

>>20395704
>>(1) The Grail was not a Christian but a Hyperborean mystery.
>>(2) The Grail legend deals with an initiatory mystery.
>>(3) The Grail is a symbolic expression of hope and of the will of specific ruling classes in the Middle Ages (namely, the Ghibellines), who wanted to reorganize and reunite the entire Western world as it was at the time into a Holy Empire, that is, one based on a transcendental, spiritual basis.
These three things were already stated by Wagner in his esoteric work The Wibelungen: World-History as Told in Saga. What is peculiar to his version is that the Holy Grail was a Christianisation of the Nibelungen hoard, and like the entirety of the medieval European mythos was not Christian for this reason. Sadly later in life he converted to Christianity and saw the Holy Grail as a Christian myth. Evola was only aware of the late Wagner and as such spoke of him negatively in this work. But the pagan themes of his original plan can still be marked out because of how Parsifal stands as a transmutation of his Der Ring des Nibelungen:

>Comparison between Alberich and Klingsor; R. tells me that he once felt every sympathy for Alberich, who represents the ugly person’s longing for beauty. In Alberich the naivete of the non-Christian world, in Klingsor the peculiar quality which Christianity brought into the world

[Anonymous No.20398089]

>>20398076
>al hallaj
>quzat
got some links for those too?

[Anonymous No.20398091]

>>20396440
this anon gets it. this thread is dangerous. pearls before swine

[Anonymous No.20398096]

>>20398085
his works have more christianity in them than the actual medieval christian myths

[Anonymous No.20398102]

>>20398096
Only his Parsifal, but that's what I said.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398113]

>>20398089
Begin with these


https://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/The-Tawasin-of-Mansur-al-Hallaj.pdf

https://archive.org/details/BeyondDeathByHamadhani


http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Hakayal-Al-Nur-ny-Shihabuddin-Yahya-al-Suhrawardi.pdf

>>20398091
I am of the belief that the density I post with and the range of strands I give effectively makes whatever I say equivalent to nonsense to any but the dedicated who would have come across similar anyways. Silence is one means of the mysteries, logorrhea another.

[Anonymous No.20398116]

>>20397043
Where can I read about this more?

[Anonymous No.20398132]

>>20398113
thanks a lot, this really helps me out, same with the Vajrabhairava sutras

kek, would you recommend Rumi?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20398149]

>>20398132
Eh, he’s fine as a poet and kinda generic as a Sufi. Only read him if you’re going for the Sufi-poetry pill, at which point you should also study Hafiz and Omar Khayyam and while you’re there study Richard Francis Burton’s Kasidah which he wrote but lied a Sufi wrote, it’s very beautiful and comes from a place of genuine study of Sufism and his attempt to explain it to a more western audience. The hanging poems which are pre Islamic but are hanged in the kaaba due to their quality are also worth the read and also have magical lore associated with them. But all of these are far inferior to the sufis I’ve already mentioned and would sooner you study their actual occult writers like al-buni. But that’s on you.

Alright I’m out for now guys!

[Anonymous No.20398163]

>>20398149
peace upon you and your family

[Anonymous No.20398196]

>>20398116
The Young Hitler I Knew, any of Winifred Wagner's recollections.

[Anonymous No.20398256]

>Hitler was reported to have said: 'From Parsifal I build my religion, a sacred service in ceremonial form without theological trappings. With a brotherly foundation of genuine love without any theatrical show of humility and empty formalistic babbling. Without those disgusting gowns and effeminate attire. Only in heroic dress can one serve God.'
>"Parsifal" was the Wagner opera that Hitler found most inspiring. His most momentous allusion to "Parsifal" came in 3 speeches he delivered between 1939 & 1942. In "Parsifal," the character Kundry explains the origin of her curse, which was her mocking laughter at Christ. In those speeches, Hitler ascribed the same laughing imagery to the Jews, whom he claimed "are now choking on their formerly resounding laughter."
>In 1923 Hitler visited Wagner's grave and reportedly promised: "If I should ever succeed in exerting any influence on Germany's destiny, I will see that Parsifal is given back to Bayreuth".
>Once, in conversation with Hans Frank, he recalled hearing Götterdämmerung at the Court Opera and encountering “a couple of yammering Jews in caftans” on his way home. Hitler said: “It’s impossible to think of a more irreconcilable combination. This glorious mystery of the dying hero and this Jewish filth!”

[Anonymous No.20398356]

crusade against the grail by otto rahn

[Anonymous No.20398360]

>>20398256
what is this an excerpt from?

[Anonymous No.20398379]

>>20398356
seconded

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20398892]

In the medieval Grail romances, the hero visits the Grail Castle twice. On the first occasion, the boy remembers that he has been taught not to ask unnecessary questions, and so does not ask a necessary question. As a result, he fails and the land becomes, or at least continues to be, a waste land. By the time he finds the Grail Castle again, the hero has achieved enlightenment and is able to ask the Question and so bring healing.

n Chrétien's account, the necessary Question is: Who is served by the grail?. A possible answer would be: The old king, whose heir you are. Incidentally, it might be significant that Perceval/Parzival stands in the same relation to the Fisher King as Gawain/Gawan does to King Arthur. In each case, the hero is the son of the king's sister. For a king that had no son, his nephew might be the chosen heir. Compare also Tristram/Tristan and his uncle King Mark.

In Wolfram's account, the necessary Question is: Sir, why do you suffer so?. A possible answer would be: I was wounded by the spear and it alone can heal me.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20398898]

>>20398892
Richard Wagner and the Question

>The thing about the Question is that it is so utterly preposterous and totally meaningless.
[Richard Wagner, Wesendonck-Briefe 190-5, tr. Spencer and Millington.]

Wagner dispensed with the Question entirely. What is important is not the question, but the recovery of the spear (Cosima's Diary, 30 January 1877). Wagner realised that there was another possibility: Parsifal fails to understand what he experiences at the Grail Castle, until he has relived Amfortas' encounter with Kundry. He then understands through emotional identification with the suffering Fisher King.

There is, however, a question in Wagner's version: it is asked by Parsifal on his arrival at the lake in the domain of the Grail. Who is the Grail?, he asks. Gurnemanz laughs. That cannot be spoken, he says, but if you are called to its service, the knowledge will not be hidden for long.

[Anonymous No.20398904]

>It has done no harm to the development of the German spirit that poetry in the middle ages was nourished by the transcriptions of French courtly poetry: the inner depth of a Wolfram von Eschenbach created from the same substance, which in its original form we have preserved as a mere curiosity, eternal types of poetry.

[Strange Love No.20398914]

>A good read? With my morning coffee?

Appearently more likely than I thought.

[Anonymous No.20398923]

>esplumeor
CAPTCHA: GWGOD

[Anonymous No.20398943]

>>20398898
Levi-Strauss also wrote his interpretation of how Wagner sublimated the question throughout the drama in Parsifal:

>As we know, Wagner rejected the motif of the unasked question and replaced it with a motif that somewhat reverses it while performing the same function. Communication is assured or re-established not by an intellectual operation but by an emotional identification. Parsifal does not understand the riddle of the Grail and remains unable to solve it until he relives the catastrophe at its source...

https://www.monsalvat.no/levi-strauss.htm

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20398962]

>>20398943
Nice find brother
IIRC, Evola’s take from the book is something like “what matters is not the question, but to state the problem”

[Anonymous No.20399361]

>>20395704
The grail is a pre-christian indo-european motif, see the numerous references to magical cauldrons in Celtic and Germanic Mythology

[Anonymous No.20399368]

>>20396044
>>20396054
>>20396466
Read this paper
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1259998

[Anonymous No.20399375]

>>20397043
>he was in pure ecstasy and climbed a hilltop and had a mystical moment
wtf bros, this happened to me

[Anonymous No.20399380]

>>20397112
It was the CCTV security guard DJ trolling you

[Anonymous No.20399538]

neat, the thread's still up

[Anonymous No.20399557]

>>20398914
salam aleikum

[Anonymous No.20399560]

>>20396561
>>20396920
>>20396937
It doesn't mean demon or monster, it was the traditional name of the bear who was seen as a living emenation of divine power. So, he was both worshiped and feared. The word bear we use (and related words such as björn) just mean "The brown one" since his actual name could not be spoken.
>>20397566
Serrano's books, especially The Golden Thread.
>>20397759
Why would the semitic messiah be prefigured in (for example) I-E traditions? The entire point of traditionalism is that Truth is disseminated among peoples in different forms more appropriate to the specific time and place and people. It is anti-universalist. Jesus is the aberration in that case. It makes just as much sense to search for prefigurement of the Buddha in Jewish religious history.
>>20397859
The new title of the book is "The Fall of Spirituality", but the text is identical to Mask and Face.

[Anonymous No.20399577]

>>20395704
>(1) The Grail was not a Christian but a Hyperborean mystery.
Based

Fuck Christianity and Abrahamic religion

[Anonymous No.20399585]

>>20399577
Revolutionary opinion anon.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20399589]

>>20399368
Thanks will check out
>>20399375
Tell us about it
>>20399380
Entirely plausible:
An angel took the form of fat neck beard cctv security guard
Kek

[Strange Love No.20399597]

>>20399557

Ja guten Tag!

>>20399560

>the bear who was seen as a living emenation of divine power

That is some very ancient representation then.

[Anonymous No.20399776]

Some very high quality threads the past few days

[Anonymous No.20399860]

I used to be obsessed with this esoteric stuff but then I realized it probably doesn't do anything unless you're autistic. Better for most people to just contemplate the Bible and pray I think

[Anonymous No.20399875]

>>20395704
Good thread, sir.

[Anonymous No.20399884]

>>20399361
This. The monks who "preserved" all the welsh and celtic myths by removing all the pagan references and making everything about jesus ultimately did a poor job of changing the underlying themes and imagery. An overemphasis on the Arthurian myths is a perversion of the modern lens. They fit neatly into traditions derived from celtic myths with a splash of chivalry to update the old stories for their contemporary audiences.

[Strange Love No.20399897]

>>20399860

>Better for most people

So it seems, so it seems ...

[Anonymous No.20399904]

>>20399884
You know Arthurian lit comes from more than just Britain right?

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20399946]

>>20399875
>>20399776
Grazie

[Anonymous No.20399997]

>>Burāq, in Islāmic tradition, a creature said to have transported the Prophet Muḥammad to heaven. Described as “a white animal, half-mule, half-donkey, with wings on its sides . . . ,” Burāq was originally introduced into the story of Muḥammad’s night journey (isrāʾ) from Mecca to Jerusalem and back, thus explaining how the journey between the cities could have been completed in a single night. In some traditions he became a steed with the head of a woman and the tail of a peacock. As the tale of the night journey (isrāʾ) became connected with that of Muḥammad’s ascension to heaven (miʿrāj), Burāq replaced the ladder as Muḥammad’s means of access into heaven.

[Anonymous No.20400228]

>>20399597
>That is some very ancient representation then.
Yes, from before PIE times even, possibly back to the end of the Ice Age. It's magnificent.

[Anonymous No.20400233]

>>20399860
He keeps hammering the fact that the ideas he transmits are only for a select few, not for the masses.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20400287]

Interesting bit from the footnotes of the Epilogue

>It is surprising to find a very qualified expert in traditional studies, such as Guenon, The claim that together with the Compagnonnage, freemasonry is almost the only organization in the west that currently may claim, despite its degeneration, “an authentic traditional origin and a regular initiatory transmission“. Guenon Apparently rejects the correct diagnosis of freemasonry as a pseudo-initiatory syncretism promoted by underground forces of counter initiation, a diagnosis that could be establish even on the basis of his own views. How Guenon’s view of freemasonry as a traditional organization could possibly be reconciled with his positive assessment of Catholicism, a sworn enemy of modern Freemasonry, still needs to be clarified. Such a misunderstanding is also dangerous under another aspect, since it offers valuable weapons to Catholic apologetics. The mystification in the subversive use of the Mystery, which took place by inversion in the previously mentioned currents and especially in contemporary Freemasonry, has been kind of comforting to a bizarre thesis of militant Catholicism, according to which the entire initiatory tradition, everywhere, and every time, has had a dark, diabolical, anti-Christian, and subversive aspect. This is obviously a preposterous interpretation. And yet isn’t it possible that such a thesis is come comforted by those who thoughtlessly a tribute a character of orthodoxy end of regular initiatory filiation to freemasonry?
>At this point I feel that my readers will think that I nurture some preconceived bias and hostility toward Freemasonry. Personally, I have had friendly relationships with high-level representatives of this organization, who have endeavor to emphasize is initiatory and traditional vestiges. I am thinking here of people such as A. Reghini, Ragon, and O. Wirth. I also know about largest such as the Johannes hello Jay and others, which have refrain from engaging in social political activity and have essentially acted as centers of study. But out of love for the truth I cannot possibly modify and any part my evaluation of modern Freemasonry because of the predominant direction of his actions.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20400292]

>>20400287
Very similar to Charles Upton’s view

As for for Freemasonry, it is most likely not a unified conspiratorial organization, ruling the world from behind the scenes, itself under the command of the higher-degree initiates or “secret chiefs”. But it has done three things that warrant our vigilance:
>(1) It has spread through society the notion that there is, has been or might be an esoteric teaching superseding the Revelations that allows its initiates to accept all religions because this “secret doctrine” transcends them and relativizes them—a notion that paints the revealed religions as relatively shallow and exterior, and further conceals their esoteric depths by promoting various counterfeit esoterisms; this conception has made Freemasonry a a seed bed for both syncretism and the idea of a Counter-Traditional elite.
>(2) It has provided, through its structure of interlocking networks protected by secrecy, a venue for other forces—revolutionary movements, intelligence services, criminal organizations, networks of the rich and powerful—allowing them to gather information, make contacts, collect and launder funds, and spread their influence, forces that from time to time have turned specific Freemasonic lodges or jurisdictions into conspiratorial cadres.
>(3) It has provided a model of secrecy, modes of recognition, degrees of initiation and methods of commanding allegiance that have been a great use to other organizations attempting to seize or wield power, whether revolutionary, elitist, or a combination of the two (as an intelligence service may create a “controlled opposition” which believes itself opposed to the powers that be while actually serving its interest)

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20400302]

>>20400233
This
Other anon is a shudra and should be kept away from true esoterism [reserved for the /elite/]

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20400335]

>>20398356
I think I’m gonna re-read this next and will bake a thread tomorrow or Monday about it
Part 4 of OP book provides a nice foundation to Crusade Against the Grail

[Strange Love No.20400459]

>>20400228

>It's magnificent.

Quite so! And puts this messy period of "recorded history" into quite a different context ... this ancient way of thinking likely persisted more or less unchanged for millenia.

[Anonymous No.20400464]

>>20397505
>>20397512
>>20397557
Garbage

[Anonymous No.20400526]

>>20397877
Lol no. Plenty of imposters using the name though.

[Anonymous No.20400556]

>>20397951
>initiated
>Christian
>high level
Top kek

[Anonymous No.20400590]

Real schizo thread, but what are your thoughts on the Mabinogion

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20400767]

First of all, it has consistently been shown, not only through confessions extorted with torture but also to spontaneous declarations, that the Templars had a secret ritual of an authentically initiatory character. As a condition to be admitted to this rite, Or as an introductory phase to it, One had to abjure the worship of Christ. The knight who aspire to the various levels of the orders inner hierarchy how to step over the crucifix and insult it. He was ordered “not to believe in the Crucified One, but the Lord who is in heaven”; he was taught that Jesus has been a false prophet – not a divine figure who died to atone for men’s sins, but a very ordinary man who died because of his own mistakes. The text of the indictment was formulated in this manner: ‘Et post crux portaretur et ibi dicetur sibi quod crucifixus non est Christus, sed quidam falsus propheta, depetatus per Iudaeos ad mortem propter delicta sua’. This should be regarded not as a true abjuration, much less a blasphemy, but rather as a sort of test: initiate how to demonstrate his capability to go beyond and exoteric cult of a merely religious-devotional type. The rite in question was apparently celebrated on Good Friday; however, Good Friday also happens to be the day that often corresponds to the celebration of the mystery of the Grail or to the arrival of the hero in the inaccessible castle of the Grail.
A further charge was at the Templars despise the sacraments, especially penance and confession—those practices Most influenced By the pathos of sin and expiation. The Templars allegedly did not acknowledge the supreme authority of the pope and of the church and followed Christian Precepts only in appearance. All this could be the counter part of the anti-Christolatric rite, Namely, the overcoming of Christian Exotericism end of the usurping claim to embody the supreme spiritual authority on the part Of a merely dogmatic religious institution, totally unaware of both the pragmatic justification of its own limitations in the traditional elements present at a latent state and its doctrines in symbols.

[Anonymous No.20400974]

>>20395704
>>20395801

Kill yourself kike faggot.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20401009]

The central ritual of Templar initiation was kept very secret. From one of the proceedings of the trial we learned that a knight who underwent it returned as pale as a corpse in with a lost expression on his face, claiming from then on he could never be happy again. Shortly after, the same knight fell into a state of invincible depression and died. Such effects recall those produced in some of the tests of the Grails, tests that “turn ones hair as white as snow“ and induce, and those who fail, a deep disgust with all earthly things as well as a deep and incurable unhappiness. What produces an extreme terror in some knights and causes them to flee, according to another testimony of the Templars, is the vision of in “idol,“ which is described in various forms. These forms, as they are described in the proceedings of the trial, are difficult to interpret: a majestic golden figure, a virgin, the apparition of an animals head such as a Ram’s, a crowned older man, and androgynous or two-faced figure. Most likely these are dramatizations of the initiatory consciousness, in which a given content of an individual‘s imagination can play a determining role. We may also get some orientation through testimonies such as the one claiming that the idol is a “demon” who allegorically “bestows wisdom and riches,” that are virtues which we have already seen referred to the Grail. The name frequently give it to the mysterious idol, Baphomet, in all likelihood comes from the Greek word meaning “baptism of wisdom”, or a gnosis in a higher sense; this may have been the name of a ritual that most likely passed on to the idol.
The vision of the idol allegedly occurred at a given point during Mass, as a mystery to which Mass itself was subordinated. This recalls the ceremonies described in the more Christianized Grail text: a sort of Mass having the Grail as its main reference point, with a sense of a mystery too dangerous to explore, least one stricken by a sword or loses his sight.

[Anonymous No.20401159]

>>20400335
naisu

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20401161]

Frater, if you are lurking, do you have any insights regarding Baphomet + Templars?

[Anonymous No.20401446]

Slightly off-topic, but I have been thinking recently a bit about the broad matrix of psychic sciences that have emerged in the west over the last 200 or so years. By this I mean various fields of psychiatry, psychology, psycho-analysis, "therapy", and what not. As much as they try to present themselves, mostly, as either material and technical, or social and therapeutic, the bulk of their output has been of a pseudo-spiritual nature. You can point at Freud's focus on dreams, or Jung in general, but I think one of the most telling signs is how quickly, and effectively, these fields began producing pseudo-spiritual movements, and eventually full fledged cults. Scientology seems to function as a kind of bottleneck, or a point of convergence, for many of those early strands, and a spawning ground for groups like EST, now Landmark, and of course The Process.
Contemporarily you now have the obsession with Mindfulness.

I think that this broad, loosely defined, strand that connects these psyche-techne type fields is probably the largest and most widely accepted form of pseudo-spirituality present in Western society at the moment. From people who put their 5 yr olds in therapy because they will not sit still, to middle managers going to weekend retreats to "unlock their potential" with techniques rooted in Military-Occultism research projects, this phenomenon, whatever you might call it, seems to be the most pervasive of its kind, if not the most potent.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20401515]

>>20401446
Bro you need to check out System of the Antichrist by Charles Upton ASAP!!
It is literally everything you talked about and in great depth.
The author started as a hippie in California and was deep in the New Age scene before taking the Sufi pill

(Make sure to read Guenon’s Reign of Quantity first)

[Anonymous No.20401521]

>>20401515
I'll give it a read. Thanks for the rec.

[Anonymous No.20401601]

>>20401446
Good point. What are the implications of this?

Malignant entities feed on "negative" or more dense psychic energies, these energies seem to be more and more available to them, as "anxiety" and other harmful emotional tendencies become increasingly common. I would say screens (worth noting: a black slab/mirror) are the main cause of this, specifically social media. I have reflected on the behaviours of others and myself, watching grown men behave like children because their opinion is not shared or someone did something inconsequential which nonetheless caused them great insult. Almost always it seems be the result of a concretization of the vulgar ego. People familiar with Traditionalist writings or hopefully just spirituality in general will know that solidifying and building up the vulgar ego is the opposite aim of authentic spirituality (to ascend to higher levels of consciousness, to put it bluntly).

Guenon, and therefor the Traditions that were the basis for his ideas, posit that the psychic is still in the material realm, so there is nothing of any spiritual value here. Perhaps it is even below the merely human, would one be correct in asserting this? Watch the way people behave now. They are so impulsive, emotional, unable to control themselves. We are being dragged down to the lowest form of human existence possible, and therefor, if you will permit me to say it, are behaving more and more like Negroids. Obviously this is so in terms of the cultural mainstream (clothing, music, physical traits being perceived as attractive in women, etc.), but also in mannerisms and language. Evola of course called out this phenomenon 60 years ago, but it has spread and become much more obvious and explicit. It isn't just about Americans being loud and boisterous now, grown men spend thousands of dollars on a "fit" to look like Negro gangsters, which really makes them look like they are dressing like little boys. They wave their hands in front of themselves saying "ayo", "wassup", etc. This really is an involution into the lowest forms possible for humanity.

I know that this is probably only tangentially related to what you wrote, but I a trying to find a connection here. In the instances you are referring to, the psychic (again, still technically in the material realm, nothing spiritual about it, forces misused by sorcerers and "witches" too I might add) are upheld as something of higher value, which I suppose is a true inversion of spirituality. I guess I am not really saying anything new here to people familiar with Traditionalist thinking, it is just interesting to really observe these things happening in reality and come to the same conclusions yourself through observation.

[Anonymous No.20401618]

>>20401515
Interesting, I am just starting this book. I noticed even in the very beginning he is talking about the vulgar ego, this will be a theme throughout, right? there are other spiritual leaders/groups who are fixated on this as the main spiritual problem of our times. You can see it for yourself, people are trapped in their own little world, and when the delusion begins to crack, they behave like children, throwing tantrums or quite literally running away. Did Guenon talk about this specifically in Reign of Quantity? been a while since I read it. I remember spirituality inverted, but I can't remember if he went into the problem of ego enforcement.

[Anonymous No.20401810]

bump

[Anonymous No.20401860]

>blocks your path

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20401966]

>>20401618
You are more or less correct, yes
If you like the book, checkout the sequel to it, Vectors of the Counter-Initiation
Just had a thread about it recently
>>/lit/thread/S20370818

System of Antichrist deals with new age “pseudo-initiation”
Vectors deals with globalist counter-initiation

[Anonymous No.20401994]

>>20401966
Ya, I plan on reading that too. I wish Upton was more to direct and to the point though, and perhaps talked about himself less. I am only judging from the first 30 pages or so, but does the book really need to be so long?

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20402109]

>>20401994
a fat chunk of the middle part can be skimmed or skipped (like 200ish pages)
It is the methodical BTFOing of new age group after new age group. A bit tiresome but read what interests you for that bit and skip the boring bits

[Anonymous No.20402126]

>>20402109
Thanks, I'm not sure autism can permit me to skip, but I can speed read. It sounds like I will enjoy the book on counter-initiation more but nevertheless I believe it will be fruitful to learn in detail where the new agers went wrong.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20402174]

>>20402126
Good luck brother

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402180]

Later tonight I’ll write up an explanation on Baphomet and the Templar.

[Anonymous No.20402199]

>>20402174
If you're into Hermetic alchemy check out Alchemy Unveiled by Johannes Helmond, a recent work but it is the real deal. If you can read French or Italian I've got some more recs in the same vein as well.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20402238]

>>20402180
Based
>>20402199
Word, I added that to my list

>French & Italian
I am fluent in Italian-American English
Gabish?

[Anonymous No.20402286]

>>20402180

[Anonymous No.20402300]

>inb4 CAPUT

[Anonymous No.20402308]

>>20395704
>who wanted to reorganize and reunite the entire Western world as it was at the time into a Holy Empire, that is, one based on a transcendental, spiritual basis.
That's literally not what the Ghibellines were trying to do. This Evola guy has quite the imagination.
>everything is a super secret mystical esoteric expression of le ebin Tradition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.20402313]

>>20402308
you dumb ass

[Anonymous No.20402333]

>>20397838
>Thus they may extract extreme emotions, or they may artificially release the components in order to gain the gluten, which is to say, the ritual sacrifice of animals to use the Will and life in them for the ritual, or at the most extreme the ritual slaying of a child. (Note there are a multitude of replacements by which black magicians have devised, the most common being the creation of a symbolic child via a sexual ritual with their partner and then the placing of the fluids in a vessel wherein they are then mixed with various ingredients, prayed upon, rituals performed upon and so forth, the resultant substance is referred to as the elixir vitae and Elixir Rubeus, which is to say, the elixir of life and ruby elixir effectively. This is then either consumed or burnt, the ashes of it may then be consumed or used in other methods.)
Sounds similar to the 'cake of light'.

[Anonymous No.20402364]

>>20397919
Brb, going to throw some apples at qts.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20402380]

>>20402308
Kek. filtered much?
Evola always said he believed in HIGH Ghibellinism
You are a LOW profane Ghibelline

[Anonymous No.20402458]

>>20402380
>DUDE EVERYTHING ACTUALLY HAS A SUPER SECRET ESOTERIC SECOND MEANING!!! And and and when the aristocrats (of the soul) have an entire political movement with realistic goals, they aren't actually striving for whatever realistic goal they've expended massive amounts of manpower and energy towards, like establishing the power of the Emperor over the Pope, they're not actually striving for realistic goals with all their efforts, they're ACTUALLY just using it as a heckin cool analogy for da soul and esotericism and stuffs :) how cool is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20402465]

Yup, filtered

[Anonymous No.20402486]

>>20402465
shut up tranny

[Anonymous No.20402777]

best way to read Parsifal?

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402858]

I have actually written a full length poem explaining the symbolism of Baphomet of which I will provide at the end of these posts.

First let us get to the basics of what baphomet was in the origin of its conception then we can advance to its mature conceptualization. The templars simply put originated as a monastic knightly order, however it should be understood that in this medieval period priests and monks and mystics of all types studied all manner of theology, magic, occultism, pagan lore and so forth as just further aspects of science, not having such a hard divide between the fields of knowledge, this is why we have so many monk-written and preserved ancient literature pagan and otherwise, now consider that the headquarters of the templars from the beginning was the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which they thought to be the very temple of Solomon. Solomon mind you being associated with magic commonly, specifically evocation magic concerning the conjuration of demons and angels for material power and spiritual wisdom. with this context we can consider the rumors, one such rumor is that the Templars either capturing or taking the kindness of local sufis, learn their manner of Kabbalah and Sufi mysticism and modify it via their own contemplations or they effectively learned a vamachara form of Sufism, what we do know more or less for certain is that they DID practice transgressive rituals and worship of the baphomet as a kind of vamachara in which they would perform evil outwards action, idolatry even, but inside their hearts keep faithful to Christ.

Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402862]

>>20402858
If I were to wager there’s probably a mixture of truth to these events, it is likely they found literature of Sufism and mixed this with the legends of Muslims they had available, a strange common tendency we see occur throughout history is the “witch cult” by this I mean to say, we continuously see a pop cultural bogey man based on black magical practice, and this pop cultural influence causes imitators to arise and produce a new cult based on the popular fiction. For example the Dionysian cult is the origin of the generic European witch, which became real in order to ape the fiction of it, it is likely that they had access to Sufi and kabbalistic literature and came up with the idea of rejection of the material while embracing the spiritual, we read in the shiva samhita an identical doctrine of which says the material action and karma is meaningless as long as the spiritual conception is pure, such people being free of karma, I would suspect this is precisely the logic they came up with.

But what is baphomet that they worship? First, we know baphomet is a multilayer corruption, its origin being mammet(idol, doll.) itself being a corruption of mahomet, itself a corruption of Muhammad, in their imagination it was believed that Muslims worshipped Muhammad, either in a necromantic form or according to what depictions we have, very akin in conception to the moloch cult depictions. Thus they have taken the fictional conception and modified it into an aesthetic form embracing the their fear and bowing to their conception of the evil and idolic, see my previous posts in the last thread for why idols are important.

Now, it is likely there is further a Gnostic-Neoplatonic angle to this as, if you take the name of baphomet and write it in reverse according to Hebrew characters (where the final letter of the alphabet and the first switch position, so that in English ABA becomes ZYZ and vice versa.) you produce the name Sophia, which is wisdom and the goddess which births the demiurge, bride of Christ and soul of man.

These being fused the name baphomet at once to them conjoint the concept of all evil but also the hidden divinity of Christ, which reflects the worship they perform before it, but what of the image of baphomet? Being either a kind of goat’s head or a decapitated human head.

The decapitated human head is in actuality a real Sufi symbol which has a very ancient and multi-cultural appearance as a symbol of mastery, wisdom, attainment and so forth, for it represents the mind/intellect free of the bodily constraints, with the capacity to soar on its lonesome, this is the origin of the “brazen head” mechanical device in which a kind of automaton was created that could function as an oracle, this is also the origin of the necromantic literature we have on the usage of skulls for divination in the west such as Ars Phytonica,

Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402865]

>>20402862
though identical beliefs exist with the kapala skull’s universal usage in Asia, i shall now quote liberally from idras shah’s book “the sufis”

When they were suppressed, the Knights Templar were
accused of worshiping a head, sometimes called the Bap-
homet or Bafomet. This was considered to be an idol, and
probably connected with Mohammed (Mahomet). The
head was described, but no head which could positively be
identified as one of these Bafomets could be located.

Probably relying upon contemporary Eastern sources,
Western scholars have recently supposed that "Bafomet has
no connection with Mohammed, but could well be a cor¬
ruption of the Arabic ubufthuvuit (pronounced in Moorish
Spanish something like bufihimat). The word means
"father of understanding.” In Arabic, "father” is taken to
mean "source, chief seat of,” and so on. In Sufi terminology,
ras el-fahmat (head of knowledge) means the mentation of
man after undergoing refinement—the transmuted con¬
sciousness.

It will be noted that the word "knowledge, understand¬
ing” used here is derived from the Arabic FHM rbot. FHM,
in turn, is used to stand both for FHM and derivatives,

meaning “knowledge;” and FHM and derivatives, standing
for “black, Coalman” and so on.

The Baphomet is none other than the symbol of the com¬
pleted man. The black head, negro head, or Turk’s head
which appears in heraldry and in English country-inn signs
is a crusader substitute word (cant word) for this kind of
knowledge.

It may be noted that the shield of Hugues de Payen,
the founder (with Bisol de St. Omer) of the Templars in
1118 A.D., carried three black human heads—the heads of
knowledge.

The use of this term, especially the “wondrous head”
theme, recurs throughout medieval history. Pope Gerbert
(Silvester II) who studied in Moorish Spain, is stated to
have made a brazen head, among many other marvelous
“magical” things. 1 Albertus Magnus spent thirty years mak¬
ing his marvelous brass head. Thomas Aquinas, pupil at the
time to Albertus, smashed the head, which “talked too
much.”

The head appears again and again.

It should be remembered that the Templars and gradu¬
ates of the Spanish magical schools had one thing in com¬
mon, apart from being suspected of heresy and magical
powers and belonging to secret organizations. They all
spoke and used Arabic. By means of this initiatory lan¬
guage, they could communicate with one another, pass pun¬
ning messages, put up signs (like the ‘hat” of Majorca) to
illustrate some message.

Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402874]

>>20402865
This artificial head is not made of brass. Artificial it is,
in that it is the product of “work” in the Sufic sense. Ulti¬
mately, of course, it is the head of the individual himself.
At least one chronicler gets close to the mark when he
says that the ‘head was flesh and blood, like unto an ordi¬
nary man’s.” The emphasis which is put on the statement,
however, leads the ordinary reader to the conventional idea

of artificiality, and like a good conjuring trick, diverts at¬
tention from the method of making the head, which might
be suspected if it were thought that “head” was a code word
for the result of a (heretical) formative process.

In Arabic, “brass” is spelled SuFR, connected with the
concept of “yellowness.” The “head of brass” is a rhyming
homonym for “head of gold,” which is spelled in exactly the
same way. The Golden Head (sar-i-tiZai) is a Sufi phrase
used to refer to a person whose inner consciousness has
been “transmuted into gold” by means of Sufic study and
activity, the nature of which it is not permissible to convey
here.

The three heads of black wisdom on the shield of the
founder of the Templars are shown on a background of
gold—“On gold, three Moors' heads black.”

The phrase, “I am making a head,” used by dervishes to
indicate their Sufic dedication in certain exercises, could
very well have been used by Albertus Magnus or Pope
Silvester, and transmitted in the literal sense, believed to
refer to some sort of artifact.

Albertus Magnus (born 1193) was well versed in the
Saracenic and Sufi literature and philosophy. As Professor
Browne notes, he exceeded the usual customs of Western
Orientalists, for, “dressed as an Arab [he] expounded at
Paris the teachings of Aristotle from the works of al-Farabi,
Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ghazali.”

End quote, he elaborates further upon the connection of sufis and the head to the Templars. (Note the head may also represent the ego in demiurgy, free of constraint of nature and in absolute self worship, this is the meaning of the Hindu rahu who eats the sun and moon, and is at once considered demonic.


Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402883]

>>20402874
Now to the myth of the goat head, This is a simplistic intensification, the Goat represents the sinful, the wrong and damned, the wrathful in biblical symbolism as opposed to the lamb, to reformulate the head into a goat’s is to imply the human flesh as sin and to imply sin itself.

Now, it should one noted that the Templars eventually disbanded and just as previously mentioned pop culture orders and groups arise to copy cat, we know from history that certain Templars went on to become pirates and some of these pirates went on to become stone masons, mind you this pirate connection is exemplified by the Templar flag of the skull and bones which is thought to eventually become the famous jolly Rodger, one such Templar-pirate or derivative is likely Eustace the Monk who was known as a great outlaw mercenary, pirate, monk and black magician, with many magical feats attributed to him. It is likely these tales and other such legends go on to influence the free masons with some stray Templar derivatives and sons joining the order and bringing SOME of the lore they held, this metamorphosing slowly, however to discuss the hidden groups which absorbed and integrated into the masons is too large of a topic, most famous is the Bavarian Illuminati much later, but for anyone interested in this topic I recommend looking into “the ocultists “ and the translations of the Copiale Cipher. But all of this is much later.


From all of this integration mixing, aping of fictional trends and so forth we eventually come to a fellow by the name of eliphas levi, who is probably the last of the great historical magicians of the older Christian renaissance-esque mold, akin to Agrippa and the like, eliphas levi being a Christian mystic first and foremost studied the tarot, freemasonry, Agrippa and so forth but interpreted them all with a Christian model in mind, he also studied the works of Arthur Schopenhauer and saw in them an explanation on Will which he understood to be identical with and elaboration of the renaissance conception of astral influence/divine Will, the descent of such and the ability to Manipulate such via the Will of man, this he famously called the astral light to which he identified the kabbalistic emanation process as being identical with the Will-representation relation I spoke of earlier from Schopenhauer. This is important because all of this builds into what he saw Baphomet as.


Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402896]

>>20402883
Baphomet according to eliphas levi is “the lord of the astral light” which is to say, the lord whose Will is the origin of the circulation of the planets, the unity of the Will of god with man, the origin of the ontological will of nature, at once the created and the creator, thus according to levi what Baphomet REALLY was, was Christ, was Jesus. The goat head representing the human flesh of Christ, the torch representing the divinity of Christ and also truth, the male and female parts and various animal portions representing him as the unity of all opposites, the reconciliation of nature in all of its multiplicity with the one. He also saw it as an idol, and above all else he also saw it as the mirror of the individual and his soul via a nondual argument that the Christ and the adept are reflections and in eternity are one thing. Thus the Baphomet is at once Christ, lord of all, but also a created idol, the ego and the lord of sorcery, thus he is also symbolically identified with the devil tarot card, the devil tarot card being the card which has rulership over the inverted pentagram, being the male and female bound into unity by the hermaphrodite (with phallus predominate) into unity, the devil which sits upon the cube/sphere, which is thus the capstone of the ashlar which is at once man and nature capped with the divinity of God, thus the devil card at once represents bondage into matter and then supremacy of the illusion world over god’s truth, but esoterically it is the union of God with man, the revelation of God in nature and the attaining of supreme spiritual knowledge. This is why the Baphomet is depicted with an upright pentagram placed upon his forehead, the forehead being symbolic of daat/knowledge as the redeemed tiphererh, which is to say, reason/ego exalted via samadhi to the pre-fallen state where it knows God in gnosis, in perfect marriage. Thus this is the pentagram (at once the formula of man and the Lucifer formula.) which is man, attained to perfect knowledge of God.

Thus the Baphomet is the core vamachara idol of the west concerning the wrathful worship of Christ, all further usages of Baphomet originate in this. An interesting connection to this is that the mandaeans consider Jesus an evil sorcerer, and yet worship the Christ as an angel known as mahazael, Agrippa in his studies with the mandaeans used their lore to tell us that mahazael is one of the four demon kings, in the work of Andrew chumbley these two streams are conjoint and Baphomet, mahazael and Jesus are unified into one image, mahazael as the slain Christ upon the cross, being the sun in winter, who holds the image of the normal Christ but also the power of cththonic initiation, this form is identical to the voodoo baron samedi, himself being lord Saturday” Christ while he was dead upon Saturday before the resurrection.

I will end this with a poem I wrote concerning Baphomet.

Cont

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402904]

>>20402896
Hymn to Baphomet

Baphomet blessed among the ruined deep,
Where scores of taninim have churned the seas
Frothy as lakes of amrit milk, which kings
Of serpents stirred at the behest of god
And demon prince alike, and there enthroned
Upon an adamantine sphere encrowned
With a marble obelisk whose capstone
Divine is thine form, whose feet are cloven
As a satyrs and legs are lotus-crossed
As wrathful sadhus in meditation,
Whose waist chimeric, fish-scaled, and feathered
Bears the caduceus of life and death,
Whose breasts flow the streams of cit and Lethe,
Gesturing upward and downward your hands
Point to the lunar nodes whose secret names
Are writ upon your arms “coagula” “solve”
The formula of flesh and spirit’s cry,
Conjoint both the leaden cross of matter
And the gold-red rose of eternal light,
Both as the bridal bed of king and queen,
Of Eevens dark with levins roaring flame,
With Dawn who loves the whispered matin hymn,
I see in you the orchard’s apple tree
And the ghost who walks among the willows,
From your wings dashes the dancing springwind
To meet autumnal stars of countless hues,
And there they speak of you to whom all blooms,
Both the sweetbriar’s twisted eglantine
And the silverbush’s convolvulus,
For your face is a company of stars,
Your left eye is melancholic sorrow,
Your right eye is thricefold; blithe, Joy and mirth,
Thy mouth is silent but thy third eye speaks,
Thy impartial eye’s equanimity
Is signified by the five-pointed star
Of knowledge infinite and harmonized,
Thy devil-face is great and terrible
As leviathans but ever smiling
You bear the seraphic flame of worship,
The flame is love of God and love of man,
and these two are one but appear as two,
Thus the horns of his head appear as two,
Which signify all power over earth
And the heaven’s immensity also,
Thy face depicts the sins of Adam’s brood,
Thy blessèd body unites all contrary things,
Whether the self with the other or God
With the myriads of bestial humans,
Yclept as the sun and as Abrasax,
Yclept as Osiris and adonis,
Yclept as tammuz and Dionysus,
I invoke thy true name my lord Jesus.

[Frater asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402910]

Hopefully this elaborated successfully. All of this should be considered in the context of the Sufi shaitan previously discussed.

[Anonymous No.20402988]

any recommendations for arthurian/grail films?

[Anonymous No.20402989]

>>20402910
thanks for the posts it was very interesting

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20402992]

>>20402988
Read Rabelais and then watch monty python and the holy grail.

>>20402989
No prob.

[Anonymous No.20403018]

>>20402992
>Rabelais
where to start with Rabelais?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20403031]

>>20403018
directly with Gargantua and Pantagruel, the thing about him is, the Benefit and their drawback is, he is again one of our artist-vamachara adepts of the west and his fixation is demonstration of the unity of malkuth, the mundane filthy profane world, with the divine and holy as one all continuous mass, thus you genuinely do get a grail tale with genuine mysteries along with Greek and French lore and other such, next to fart and cuckoldry jokes and humanist philosophy, he exemplifies the sight of the corruption of this world as equivalent with the holiness. An easier introduction to this qualia of aesthetic is perhaps the lars von trier films, he is either a theoretical or working occultist himself.

Do not do away with humor, keep a light sense about you. this is a major keep to the deepening of esoteric studies.

[Anonymous No.20403044]

>>20403031
I love lars von triers, hes actually one of my favorite directors.. very glad to have come across your posts this evening.

[Anonymous No.20403107]

>>20402988
Excalibur of course. Pure and unadulterated SOVL

[Anonymous No.20403173]

>>20402458
Back to redddit, faggot

[Anonymous No.20403180]

>>20395704

i bet it's a nonsensical book with no sources like the usual occult book

[Anonymous No.20403183]

>>20403180
You can download a pdf and see for yourself

[Anonymous No.20403193]

Far too many namefags in this conversation

[Anonymous No.20403234]

>>20403193
Frater is an acceptable namefag desu. Its useful to be able to search archives for his posts when looking for a book or author mentioned in a thread etc.

[Anonymous No.20403238]

>>20403234
He's very well read (I respect him for that) but also likes sniffing his own farts, and many here who aren't well-read accept all his statements without question and simp for him. It's strange.

[Anonymous No.20403314]

>>20403107
I watched Excalibur right after reading The Metaphysics of War. Great experience

[Anonymous No.20403588]

>>20402858
>they effectively learned a vamachara form of Sufism
Aye

[Anonymous No.20403636]

>>20402862
Jules Michelet's "La Sorciere", Jeffrey Burton Russel's "Witchcraft in the Middle Ages" and Margaret Murray's "The Witch-Cult in Western Europe" is some great /lit/ on the matter

[Anonymous No.20403664]

>>20402458

[Anonymous No.20403672]

>>20403031
Thanks for sharing what you know.

[Anonymous No.20403681]

>>20403031
Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous No.20403690]

>>20403044
Chaos reigns

what can i say? i understand Hitler.

[Anonymous No.20403779]

>>20403238
He's not that well read.
He just namedrops stuff right and left in his posts to give his ideas some kind of justification.
Check this.
Remember that the Graal shares the qualia of reflexivity exemplified by the vimarsa principle of Shiva, the Shakti tattva that is the Maya tattva, the veil of the Abyss, the border between the pleroma and the sublunar world, but also on the material phenomenological level it is the vulva as mentioned by vamachara tantrikas, malammatiya sufis, barbolites, Sabbateans, the provancal troubadours and so on, and also in Dante who hid the somatic symbolism in Christian garb with his whole paradisaical Rose literary gestalt, and the fact that it reflects Shiva, bonds the Chokmah, acts as Maya in Trika, Siddhanta, Samkhya, Advaita, etc. implies on the deeper metaphysical level its identity with the Schopenhauer's concept of Will, the Abhinava Shiva, the Kabbalistic Chokmah, etc just like the vulva is made for the penis because embryology shows the vulva is an inchoate penis, and so we arrive by the left hand back to the right foot of theology where the fallen world, which is a reflection of God's grace, the terrestrial shadow of the celestial city, that is the involutionary replication of the pure dyad in the impure tattvas, the shiva shakti as purusha-prakriti, is nothing but God itself delighting for itself in the forms from itself by energies, the energiea, that essentially are him, the ousia, and this is the deepest ultra mega crypto secret of the occult sects that the dick comes first, then the pussy; that the pussy was made for dick; not the dick for the pussy.
I spent half of the the Saturday parsing his Graal posts only to end up with a tremendous regret of wasted time.
He thinks that his incoherence is somehow initiatic, that the people who had read the same things would understand him, but I've read the same stuff as Frater - Abhinavagupta, the Cultus Sabbati shit, Vajrayana, Buddhism, Idries Shah - and still I can't make heads or tails of Frater’s writing; and that's not because it has hidden meaning but because Frater can't organize his thoughts coherently and write using the proper syntactical rules of English language: rules made to elucidate one's thoughts in a way understandable to others.

[Anonymous No.20403785]

>>20403779
Plus, he misinterprets Oriental material through a Christian gloss, introducing Christian and Western concepts like hierarchy in materials that doesn't have one, or interpreting Abhinvagupta, a radical nondualist, through the gloss of fin de siecle Golden Dawn Kabbalah, which does posit a difference between the world beneath the supernals and above: something that doesn’t come into Abhinvagupta who denies ANY difference WHATSOEVER between Shiva and everything else.
>but the tattvas
Organizing principled of reality; not emanations of God.
Golden Dawn Kabbalah is like a journey up a skyscraper to the boss's lounge.
The tattva philosophy is like analyzing the building itself, the concrete, the insulation, the wiring.
The difference is fundamental. And if there’s still some sliver left of the concept of hierarchy in tattvas, then one should check Vajrayana art and read Vajrayana tantras. Aryadeva’s commentary on the lamp, for example, translated by Wedemeyer.
Or he misunderstands concepts but still goes along with them, like in the present thread.
Three examples:
1) In the Grail posts he wrote that tantrik (sic) way is to utilize desire for sorcerous ends, that is, to achieved personal goal. When applied to tantra, the idea is junk. The idea itself is an example of the bon mote of Chumbley: someone who decided that the twenties are best age to declare oneself a spiritual teacher, found a few orders, and start giving spiritual advice through books that costs half a mortgage to own.
What’s wrong with this is that tantras have only one form of sorcery, and that is the rustic one everyone can do by chanting spells in the privacy of their own home: their equivalent of our praying in the hospital’s waiting room.
The only instance where tantra uses desire is in the sexual practice whose main and ONLY goal is enlightenment due to their psycho-physiolgical understanding that during the sexual act the organism undergoes the same unfolding process as during death and, since the aim of spiritual practice is the realization, the return to the original ground a glimpse of which is given to everyone at death, therefore it’s possible to use the sexual union of as a catalyst of the meditative practice to achieve enlightenment not after millions of rebirth but in a single life. This is spelled clearly in Vajrayana tantras and their commentaries; and it implied in the Paratrimsika of Abhinavagupta.
Apart from this, tantra features no harnessing of desire. The ganachakras were essentially feasts - celebrations of the initiation of new members into the tantric group and of advancement of pupils - and their use of alcohol and meat and sex had no - I repeat, NO - sorcerous, magical aim whatsoever. In fact, tantras aren’t about harnessing emotions and desire for magical purposes, but about supplicating gods and asking for their help.
>but mantras

[Anonymous No.20403789]

>>20403785
Rote repetition, based on quantity rather then quality, with zero emotional investment. No application of desire. None. In fact, the Buddhist tantras say that mantras act as mental shield against defilement, which means emotions and passions, too, and that their recitation manifest the essence of the buddha in the yogin, which is emptines conjoined with bliss, or emptiness conjoined with clear light, or emptiness conjoined with not self.
2) He said in the Grail posts that one retreats back to the void, shunyata, and finds that one still has an ego but that ego is divine.
From the Buddhist point of view, this is absolute bullshit. Not simple bullshit, but bullshit upon which more shit has been shat on. Bullshit squared.
It’s the main - the main root - point of Buddhism that there’s no self anywhere and there hasn’t been one and there will be none. The whole abhidhardma, the whole praxis, is built on the idea to observe yourself and see how you’re a mass of aggregates, nothing more; that the sense of self appear due to wrong focus, due to ignorance of one’s own psychological make-up. There’s no self anywhere, neither on the ground, below the ground, or in the world of the gods. There’s no return anywhere because there’s no one to return.
Nagarjuna Shunyata is a a further elaboration of the same thing. What Nagarjuna proves is that everything lacks svabhava (sva - own; bhava, from the verb bhu, to be - being essence) that is, it’s own intrinsic being: everything exists due to being in relation to something else, and once the relations change, so does everything: everything is what it is thanks to everything else, doesn’t have an independent being separate from everything else, and changes its being/essence as everything else shifts. Hence, it’s empty.
What Frater wrote is a Buddhist absurdity and abuse of Buddhist doctrine to explain the modern occult concept of the left hand path which, erroneously, and based on Christian doctrine, thinks that the Oriental left hand/vamachara paths are about ego exaltation and self deification while these Oriental paths actually say that ahamkara (the ego) is not Aham (I singular, it would not be incorrect to translate it as the Self) - as explained by Abhinavagupta and made obvious through the reading of Kashmir Shaiva literature and learning how the tattvas work - or that deity body is made after telescoping the elements/skandhas of the usual personality and returning back in a body made of emptiness and bliss, selfless, full of compassion, as is explained in Buddhist tantras.
Chogyam Trungpa said that Vajrayana was dangerous because its misapplication produced jealous gods and Rudras, that is, egomaniacal personalities as far away as possible from the goal of the Buddhist path. A quick tour of the left hand path occultism, like the Cultus Sabbati, would show that Trungpa was correct.

[Anonymous No.20403793]

>>20403789
3) The third point is about Rahu, the eclipse god of India and Tibet, which according to frater is the ego in demiurgy, free of constraint of nature and in absolute self worship.
First thing, according to to which occult sect, whose name is legion, is this the meaning of Rahu?
Second, not everyone in India and Tibet views Rahu as a demon. In Kalachakra Rahu is equated with non-duality, and equated so thanks to the fact that he swallows the Sun and Moon - two key words in Buddhist tantra implying a form of duality. He is equated with the blackness stage of the death process that follow after the red and white stages, which involve the movement of red and white drops towards the heart, and is followed by the clear light stage of attainment, final release.
This shows that the meaning of Rahu isn’t limited to some ego-demiurge wallowing in self worship, which is likely Frater’s endogenous truth rather than something present in India, where Rahu is just an eclipse demon, no philosophical baggage attached, or in Tibet, where Rahu is symbolized by the flame at the tip of each stupa.
This should give a view about Frater’s grasp of the material he espouses and should show you that simping for him is irresponsible and dangerous.
Finally, what baffles me about the Frater most is that the guy has such a fucking hard on for rhetorics yet can’t write one (1) paragraph with clarity and style, using at least some basic rhetorical trope.

[Anonymous No.20403803]

>>20395704
Don’t read Evola. Read Schertel

[Anonymous No.20403823]

>>20403779
>I've read the same stuff as Frater - Abhinavagupta, the Cultus Sabbati shit, Vajrayana, Buddhism, Idries Shah - and still I can't make heads or tails of Frater’s writing
sounds like a (You) problem

[Anonymous No.20403829]

>>20400556
NGMI. Christianity is far more esoteric and initiatic than you could ever imagine.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20403832]

>>20403803
>le fasting GOOD
>le eating meat GOOD
>le state of ecstasy GOOD
>le demon seed within GOOD

It’s only interesting because of hitler

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20403838]

>>20403779
Tell us how you would approach the mystery of the Grail from a Hindu-Buddhist perspective

A basic reading list would be appreciated

[Anonymous No.20403858]

>>20403789
>It’s the main - the main root - point of Buddhism that there’s no self anywhere and there hasn’t been one and there will be none. The whole abhidhardma, the whole praxis, is built on the idea to observe yourself and see how you’re a mass of aggregates, nothing more;
This isn't true though. Anatta is the doctrine of not-self, not non-self.
Buddhism doesn't concern itself with self and non-self, Buddha talks about this multiple times.
And "being a mass of aggregates" is still self

[Anonymous No.20403903]

I read guenon's symbols of sacred science a few days ago. It talks about the grail.

[Anonymous No.20403912]

>>20403789
>Nagarjuna Shunyata is a a further elaboration of the same thing. What Nagarjuna proves is that everything lacks svabhava (sva - own; bhava, from the verb bhu, to be - being essence) that is, it’s own intrinsic being: everything exists due to being in relation to something else, and once the relations change, so does everything: everything is what it is thanks to everything else, doesn’t have an independent being separate from everything else, and changes its being/essence as everything else shifts. Hence, it’s empty.
No, Nagarjuna doesn’t prove this. As Richard Robinson showed in his classic article, Nagarjuna commits logical fallacies like when he uses circular reasoning when trying to refute akasha, and Nagarjuna doesn’t even attempt to refute the reflexivity of consciousness (a notion that falsifies the premise that consciousness is dependent/conditioned) but he instead just dismisses it out of hand and ignores the issue while at the same time ignores the problematic infinite regress that results from denying reflexivity. I agree with some of your criticisms of Fraters presentation of eastern ideas, but you are no better yourself by simping for the notorious sophist Nagarjuna and claiming he “””proved””” things.

[Anonymous No.20403928]

>>20403903
what does it say?

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20403953]

>>20403928
I read it a few days ago too
Basically the same shit Evola says in Part 1 of the book.
No new insights t b h
He was mainly commenting on Arthur Edward Waite’s ‘The Holy Grail: The Galahad Quest in the Arthurian Literature’

>druids likely initiatically transmitted it to the Christian west
>compares the Grail Mystery to the King of the World
>Dante and Rosicrucian connection
That’s about it

There is a preceding chapter on the connection of the Sacred Heart and the Holy Grail

I will post a bit from it

[Anonymous No.20403971]

>>20395873
Somebody post the chart

[Anonymous No.20403988]

>>20403953
>ctrl + f "Lanz von Liebenfels"
>0 results

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404005]

>>20403988
Meds.

[Anonymous No.20404019]

>>20404005
you said you'd post a bit from it
i'm still waiting

[Anonymous No.20404028]

>>20401601
> the psychic is still in the material realm, so there is nothing of any spiritual value here. Perhaps it is even below the merely human, would one be correct in asserting this?
As far as I can tell, the psychic sphere or realm is not exclusive to the human state. Animals and probably the (at least recently) dead and quite possibly plant life participate in psyche. I think basically what your tapping into as I understand it is the individualisation of psyche in the human realm. As atomisation has ascended the fragmentation and uprooting of mind(s) results in it's qualitative deterioration. In regards psychology/psychiatry this process is given chemical stimulus and so is accelerated. This fragmentation really only seems to me to be another system of control.
Anyway, yeah, the psychic realm I reckon you can think of as the basic architecture of consciousness, the ability to perceive and respond to information and stimulus. Human consciousness I can see as devolving, both via manipulation and laziness, back to the empty and simpler end of the scale of potentialities that the realm of psyche holds. This isn't really anything new if your familiar with Gnon's quality/quantity distinction probably. Just my thoughts.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404057]

The holy grail is the cup that contains the precious blood of Christ, and which even contains it twice, since it was first used at the last supper and then by Joseph of Arimathea to collect the blood and water that flows from the wound open in the Redeemer’s side by the centurion’s Lance. This cup is this a kind of substitute for the heart of Christ as a receptacle of his blood; it takes its place so to speak, and becomes it’s symbolic equivalent; and in this connection is it not still more remarkable at the vase should already in ancient times have been an emblem of the heart? Moreover, the cup in one form or another, just as the heart itself, plays an important role in many of the traditions of antiquity, particularly so among the Celts no doubt, since the very contact of the legend of the Holy Grail, or at least it’s plot, came from them. It is regrettable that we cannot know with any precision what form this tradition took prior to Christianity, and so it is for everything concerning the Celtic doctrines, for which oral teaching was always the sole means of transmission; But there are enough concordances for us at least establish the meanings of the principal symbols that figured of them, this after all being what is most essential.
But let us return to the legend in the form in which it has come down to us, since what it has to say of the Grail’s origin is particularly worthy of our attention: the cup was fashion by Angels from an Emerald that fell from Lucifer’s brow at the time of his fall. This emerald is strikingly reminiscent of the urnā, the Frontal pearl that in Hindu Iconography Often takes the place of the third eye of Shiva, representing what might be called the “sense of eternity”. This comparison seems better suited than any other to clarify exactly the symbolism of the Grail; end it illustrates he had another relationship with a heart, which, for the Hindu tradition, ask for many others – so perhaps in Hinduism more clearly so – is the center of the integral being, to which consequently this “sense of eternity” must be directly linked.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404062]

>>20404057
Addendum:
We will add a few words here in answer to an objection that was made to our view of the relationship between the Holy Grail in the Sacred Heart, even though the reply already given at the time seems to us satisfactory.
It is a little importance that Chréiten de Troyes and Robert de Boron did not see in the ancient legend, of which they were only the adapters, all the significance contained in it. The significance was nevertheless really there, and we claim to have done nothing more than make it explicit without introducing anything ‘modern’ into our interpretation. It is quite difficult, moreover, to see exactly what the writers of the 12th century saw or did not see in the legend; and given that they doubtless only played the part of “transmitters”, we readily agree that they did not see all that was seen by those who inspired them, that is, the real custodians of the traditional doctrine.
On the other hand, as regards to the Celts, we were careful to recall the precautions that are necessary when speaking of them in the absence of any written documents. But why should it be supposed, despite the contra–indications that are nevertheless available, that the Celts were less favored than any other ancient peoples? We see everywhere, and not only in Egypt, the symbolic assimilation of the heart in the cup or a vase. Everywhere the heart is considered to be the center of the being, A center that in the many Aspects of the symbol is both divine and human. Furthermore, the sacrificial cup everywhere represents the center or the heart of the world, the “abode of immortality”. What more is required? We Are well aware that the cup in the Lance, or their equivalence, have had yet other meanings, in addition to those we mention, but without wishing to dwell any further on this point, we can say that all these meanings, no matter how strange some of them may appear to modern eyes, are in perfect agreement among themselves, and that they really express applications of the same principle to diverse orders according to the law of correspondence on which is founded the harmonious multiplicity of meetings included in all symbolism.

[Anonymous No.20404065]

>>20402988
Theres a two part miniseries called Merlin I watched as a kid that I love for nostalgic reasons. Its not amazing but its fun. Starring Sam Neil. Obviously focuses more on merlin more than Arthur but its got most of the major points. Give it a go.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404066]

>>20404062
We hope to show in other studies not only that the center of the world is in fact to be identified with the heart of Christ, but also that this identity was plainly indicated in ancient doctrines. Obviously, the expression “Heart of Christ” must in this case be taken in a sense that does not coincide precisely with which could be called historical, but it must be said yet again that historical facts themselves, like all the rest, translate higher realities in their own way and conform to the law of correspondence, we have just leave it to you, a law that alone enables us to explain pre-figurations. It is a question, if you will, of the Christ principle, that is, of the word manifested at the central point of the universe. But who would dare to maintain that the eternal world and its historical, terrestrial, and human manifestation or not Really and substantially one in the same Christ under two different aspects? We touch here again on the relationship between the temporal and the timeless and perhaps it is not appropriate to dwell further on this, for these are precisely things that symbolism alone can express, in the measure that they are expressible. In any case, it is enough to know how to read the symbols in order to find them all that we ourselves have found; but unhappily in our age especially, Not everyone knows how to read them.

[Anonymous No.20404070]

>>20404057
>the centurion
Longinus Dickus

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404076]

>>20403779
>Plus, he misinterprets Oriental material through a Christian gloss, introducing Christian and Western concepts like hierarchy in materials that doesn't have one, or interpreting Abhinvagupta, a radical nondualist, through the gloss of fin de siecle Golden Dawn Kabbalah, which does posit a difference between the world beneath the supernals and above: something that doesn’t come into Abhinvagupta who denies ANY difference WHATSOEVER between Shiva and everything else.

My Kabbalah’s more based in luria and abulafia than the golden Dawn which maintains both non duality and a hierarchy, and in magical contexts hierarchy and nonduality are not opposed.

> Organizing principled of reality; not emanations of God.

I explicitly say this multiple times and note how these are not equivalent models even if they can be corresponded.

> In the Grail posts he wrote that tantrik (sic) way is to utilize desire for sorcerous ends, that is, to achieved personal goal. When applied to tantra, the idea is junk.

Desire being amplified in tantra for sorcery can be seen through the goddess Kurukulla and again through the methods of cultivation that allow the sorcery to occur.

> the sexual practice whose main and ONLY goal is enlightenment due to their psycho-physiolgical

Tell that to what amounts to Hindu and Buddhist grimoires such as the vajrakila ritual texts and the more folk orientated tantrik materials.

> In fact, tantras aren’t about harnessing emotions and desire for magical purposes, but about supplicating gods and asking for their help.

Yes in the actual higher usages but in the more folk orientated and in the magic applications which we do read of and are given methods for, there’s 100 sorcerous aims.

> the Buddhist tantras say that mantras act as mental shield against defilement, which means emotions and passions, too, and that their recitation manifest the essence of the buddha in the yogin, which is emptines conjoined with bliss, or emptiness conjoined with clear light, or emptiness conjoined with not self

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404081]

>>20404076
The Buddhist tantras are filled with references to the peacock and the conception of purification of desire through its use as medicine as the methodology for attainment.

> He said in the Grail posts that one retreats back to the void, shunyata, and finds that one still has an ego but that ego is divine.

Sunyata here is used as a more universal term and is not to imply this idea is Buddhist but rather this is the location in question, however you’re underestimating the diversity of sunyata interpretations, we need only go to longchenpa for the mind to be called supreme monarch and sunyata to be conceived as equivalent to samsara and the ego as having a means of survival in this through identification with e the dharmakaya, we see the same thing with the this-very-body doctrine of Kukai in shingon who does not believe there is a division between atman and anatta.

But fine I’ll elaborate what I mean by sunyata in detail to demonstrate I am not actually opposing nargarjuna’s conception. Reposting from when I’ve explained it before.

the Buddhists see 4 positions. BEING ISBEING IS NOT BOTH NEITHERAnd these four have another mirrored 4 positions.NO-BEING IS NOT-BEING IS NOT BOTHNEITHERand this eightfold division is the 8 spoked wheel of Buddhism, you may confirm, deny both or neither, or the opposite of these even further. So what is the center? What is the middle way? The middle way to Buddhism is to grasp at none of these, saying “this position which is none of the above is the truth”

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404084]

>>20404081
and this positing being apophatic, is ultimately allowing all options to exist in potential, not being grasped. This is the meaning of the Buddhist fixation in lack of grasping and on allowing smooth continuance through dwelling in the nature of the world as it is, this is why being qua being and suchness have so much fixation, what Anatta is, is recognizing that all nature including the self, the dharmas and so forth, all laws of this world, only exist when in a relationship to each other, being defined in contrast to each other, as either having existence or having not existence, cold and hot mutually form each other, existence and non-existence define each other, when the Buddhists say “mu” and when they say emptiness, they are not saying non-existence, no rather, they are saying they shall deny the relationships, they will not dwell in the relational world, they will not select being nor non being or any of the others for any type of existent, instead picking the option that is between them, which is not grasping at any option, and this allows all phenomena and experience to be at once be in all 8 categories and beyond all 8 categories, this is the nature of sunyata, dwelling in the infinitude of potential but manifest as the boundless multiplicity of all options/categories. Thus anatta and sunyata are both simply this above doctrine of non-grasping to any of the categories which allows all and none of them to occur at once.
There are literally shingon and Tibetan Buddhist extensions which see the ego and self as harmonized with this ground of phenomena, not to mention other systems seeing this same place and saying that origin of the various categories is co-dependent with the I, as you’ve said yourself, the vagina was made for the dick thus the remaining of the dick therein.

> First thing, according to to which occult sect, whose name is legion, is this the meaning of Rahu?

It’s actually pretty common in their astrological magic where Rahu is seen as an excess of ego and pride and this self worship is seen as a negative, it’s hardcoded into his myth that he is at once divine but also the demonic head. It’s very clearly the ego in demiurgy.

> Finally, what baffles me about the Frater most is that the guy has such a fucking hard on for rhetorics yet can’t write one (1) paragraph with clarity and style, using at least some basic rhetorical trope.

It’s because I see rhetoric as manipulative, I don’t put style or the like into prose explanations since that would take away from the purity of the info-dump. I do not post to convince I post what I believe is simply true, that needn’t further justification.

I’ll keep the style for poetry writing G.


All in all of course I’m bias to my Christian esotericism, but I do not think it fair to say the beliefs I’ve given examples of cannot be found in the various magical literature or mystical literature I have shilled.

[Anonymous No.20404087]

>>20404076
moth symbolism from a qliphotic pov, got something to say about it?
>moth in hebrew: Ash (Ayin + Shin)
>the eye attracted by the fire of Thagirion

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404090]

>>20404087
I reject the grantian conception of the qlippoth, the qlippoth is simply mundane conceptions which mask the mysteries of the sephiroth and are not actually distinct spheres with distinct mysteries.

The moth’s ultimately not very different from the butterfly in symbolism.

[Anonymous No.20404093]

>>20404081
>peacocks
let's talk about that too

also the state of NO-THINGNESS

[Anonymous No.20404101]

>>20404090
>mysteries of the sephiroth
fine, what about the gematric value of 370?

[Anonymous No.20404130]

>>20403838
Not the other anon, I'd say its pretty straightforward though honestly. The Grail is the container of the vedic soma which when drunk gives eternal life (blood of Christ). Symbolically then we can identify Brahman as the (cosmic) container that when Atman drinks (comprehends it's unity with, merges with) produces eternal life. Something like that.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404133]

>>20404093
Whatcha wanna know? The peacocks a layered symbol having meanings in Zoroastrianism, yazidi, and Buddhism. If you’re interested in the Buddhist interpretation look into Mahamayuri and the The Mahamayuri Vidyarajñi Sutra which gives a kind of equivalent to a goetic binding of demons as purification process reminiscent of the martinist and other such usage of demon evocation. The premise being that these spirits have a contractual obligation to act as purified protectors if the appropriate invocations are recited.


In general the symbol of the peacock is the symbol of evil-made-good, such as the lore of ahriman creating the peacock to show he can produce good, the Christian symbolism of the peacock in which it is the symbol of immortality, and the shared idea that it drinks poison in order to make colorful its body and gives itself a kind of medicine, thus is the idea of purification of the harmful for spiritual advancement.

>state of no-thingness

Nothing to say about it!

>>20404101
>370

See pic related

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404157]

>>20404130
Word, will have to study this more
If the Grail is a Hyperborean Mystery then one should be able to find hints in the Eastern tradition as well
>>20404133
Frater you got any rabbit holes I can go down where there is overlap between Tibetan Vajrayana and the Grail?

[Anonymous No.20404173]

>>20404133
>Mahamayuri Vidyarajñi Sutra
got a link for that?
>gives a kind of equivalent to a goetic binding of demons as purification process reminiscent of the martinist and other such usage of demon evocation
fascinating stuff

i was thinking about Melek Taws, who Crowley identified with Aiwaz
>ahriman creating the peacock to show he can produce good
can you elaborate on that story more?

>Venus
>Ursa Major
neat

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404176]

>>20404157
You’re better off just researching the kapala at that point

[Anonymous No.20404183]

>>20404176
>kapala
need one

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20404204]

>>20404173
>link

http://www.liber-rebil.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The-Mahamayuri-Vidyaraini-Sutra.pdf

>elaborate on ahriman

In the Zurvanite theology in which ahriman and Ahura Mazda both descent from a superior father deity, bursting out as a division of him, born as twin brothers both more or less creative in capacity. Reposting from Wikipedia;

“ This mythology of twin brotherhood is only explicitly attested in the post-Sassanid Syriac and Armenian polemic such as that of Eznik of Kolb. According to these sources the genesis saw Zurvan as an androgynous deity, existing alone but desiring offspring who would create "heaven and hell and everything in between." Zurvan then sacrificed for a thousand years. Towards the end of this period, Zurvan began to doubt the efficacy of sacrifice and in the moment of this doubt Ohrmuzd and Ahriman were conceived: Ohrmuzd for the sacrifice and Ahriman for the doubt. Upon realizing that twins were to be born, Zurvan resolved to grant the first-born sovereignty over creation. Ohrmuzd perceived Zurvan's decision, which he then communicated to his brother. Ahriman then preempted Ohrmuzd by ripping open the womb to emerge first. Reminded of the resolution to grant Ahriman sovereignty, Zurvan conceded, but limited kingship to a period of 9000 years, after which Ohrmuzd would rule for all eternity.[6]:419–428 Eznik of Kolb also summarizes a myth in which Ahriman is said to have demonstrated an ability to create life by creating the peacock.

The story of Ahriman's ripping open the womb to emerge first suggests that Zurvanite ideology perceived Ahriman to be evil by choice, rather than always having been intrinsically evil (as found, for example, in the cosmological myths of the Bundahishn). And the story of Ahriman's creation of the peacock suggests that Zurvanite ideology perceived Ahriman to be a creator figure like Ormazd. This is significantly different from what is found in the Avesta”

And

Ahriman is evil by choice. “It is not,” he says, “that I cannot create anything good, but that I will not.” And to prove this, he created the peacock. (Encyclopedia Iranica, Ahriman, 8)

[Anonymous No.20404215]

>>20404204
>http://www.liber-rebil.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The-Mahamayuri-Vidyaraini-Sutra.pdf
thanks

intredasting tale

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20404238]

>>20404176
Hmm interesting
Ties into Vajrayogini nicely, which you said a couple weeks ago was a good babby’s first step for Tibetan Vajrayana

[Anonymous No.20404254]

>>20404238
an anecdote about kapalas:

when i was younger, i shared my magical recordings with two girls, one of which had a small piece of cranium. not big enough to be used as a bowl, but she cut out little pieces for us to be worn as necklaces. she decorated them with sigils from the Dragon Rouge, they were pretty neat

[Anonymous No.20404260]

>>20403829
No, it has no initiatic Traditions. If you mean mystic, ya sure, but why would you study mysticism when you could seek initiation proper? And ya, obviously there are esoteric themes in the bible, so? You aren't going to learn how to obtain a solar body of glory through them, just a bunch of aphorisms. Nothing high level about it. Christianity went out of it's way to destroy esoteric orders, after Jesus it was passed down by a bunch of illiterate commoners. Stop being a pleb.

[Anonymous No.20404283]

importing a kapala is probably highly illegal

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWFosb98Kec

[Anonymous No.20404457]

>>20399361
Well, the grail is a cup or platter, not a cauldron. It was also just the result of Christian obsession with relics associated with Jesus, including everything he shat and drink with.

[Anonymous No.20404945]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20404993]

>>20404457
It’s a plate and they use it in the Mahabharata, Christ gives it to them lol

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405063]

Friendship with Pope over
Now HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR is my best friend

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405073]

So anons, how far along are you on your journey to become Messiah if your VOLK?? >>20397034
Picture building abilities? Are you capable yet?
Let us discuss this topic

How does one go about such a task?

[Strange Love No.20405078]

>>20405063

Btw fugg, still cannot bake after IP reset.

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405085]

>>20405078
Lol me neither
Been itching to post a funny pic I took this afternoon
Duck was right.. Lazy bastards

[Strange Love No.20405143]

>>20405085

>Duck was right.. Lazy bastards

Damn good for nothing Piefke. Sure won't do their own Messiah, that's quite clear.

[Anonymous No.20405290]

>>20403690
Lmao, based. When I worked at a hardware store I used to discuss Lars with a manager and he wrote "Chaos Reigns" on go away card. Ahhh old times.

[Anonymous No.20405613]

I have a question for you guys, is there any occultism from the past 150 years that is worth reading and studying? Besides Eliphas Levi, who Frater was talking about earlier. It all seems to be regarded poorly by so many people, and considered to be watered down, but is there really no value in Wicca, Chaos Magic, Golden Dawn, Thelema, New Age, Theosophy, or any of this stuff?

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405622]

>>20405613
No.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20405655]

>>20405613
For the most part it’s not worth your time, there’s stray valuable things in the autists of Thelema and chaos magic which are interesting like ebony anpu’s work for example, Choronzon club, typhonianism and so forth, but so many of the pills are regurgitation and lower quality forms of the older stuff, I would say rather that it’s good to study a couple of these after you’ve exhausted the actually rich sources of material, such as platonism/Neoplatonism, Jewish Kabbalah and so forth. Take the renaissance pill you know?

Also seeya lads, I won’t be having opportunity to post as frequently as I have been lately due to irl business speeding up, I’ll still try to answer any questions thrown at me if I see them.

[Anonymous No.20405692]

>>20405613
Thelema

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405703]

Just skimmed this book to compare with OP book

Waste of time

[Anonymous No.20405866]

>>20405703
I have a friend who I generally trust who talks about Manly P Hall positively , is it bullshit?

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20405875]

>>20405866
Evola is far better
Hall just kept talking about ‘Muh Philosophical Empire’ over and over
He could not grasp the Kshatriya initiatory path at all

[Anonymous No.20405891]

>>20405866
I was into MPH for a bit before getting more seriously into esotericism, he was interesting but after reading Evola and Guenon he is like a child honestly.

[Anonymous No.20405892]

I am thoroughly convinced that esotericism is a midwit pursuit. I have seen esotericists make all these grand claims, always inflating their egos, but their arguments have never stood up against those set forth by, say, Orthodox and Old Catholic Christians. It's just a revival of the ancient esotericists who were wiped out by the better arguments of the Early Church Fathers.

[Anonymous No.20405952]

>>20405891>>20405875

Ahh true true, ive read a bunch of Guenon and it changed my life, its kind of annoying that he would keep preaching MPH too me when he knew I enjoyed Guenon so much. What an idiot. Oh well.

[Anonymous No.20406138]

>>20405892
Did (small "o") orthodox Christianity persist through winning arguments? Seems more like they had to kill people like Giordano Bruno, and threaten Jacob Boehme, etc. It looks to me like heterodox, mystical, and esoteric Christianity is a much richer and more interesting path than stale and soulless orthodox Christianity.

[Anonymous No.20406153]

so does Evola rail against Christianity throughout his books or what? i remember seeing a Muslim talk about him favorably once.

[Anonymous No.20406269]

haven't read through the thread yet, but did a ctrl+f and didn't see anything
this is randall carlson's series on the holy grail:
https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/sangreal-the-holy-grail-recovering-the-cosmic-science-of-antiquity-part-one/

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20406291]

>>20406153
Both yes and no
>>20406269
I read this the other day
He’s not wrong, but like Manly P Hall, he cannot penetrate its mysteries like Evola because they cannot grasp the Kshatriya initiatic elements like Monocle Man can

[Anonymous No.20406305]

>>20406291
>the Kshatriya initiatic elements
way over my head, the only evola i could make it through was Revolt, and most of it was beyond me. filtered hard.

[Strange Love No.20406390]

>>20406305

>filtered hard.

You might just need a different approach maybe. Just saying. Need a certain intuition for this and often that is quite blunted in people these days. :)

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20406450]

>>20406305
Guenon before Evola!!
Golden rule

[Anonymous No.20406563]

>>20404260
Initiation is a meme when you can literally partake in the flesh and blood of God, and can acquire the Holy Spirit and struggle towards deification

[Anonymous No.20406814]

>>20402883
i believe first skull and cross bones used by the pirate navy of mithradates

[Anonymous No.20406841]

>>20404260
>noo i *need* to follow some old guy around for years acting as his servant with the hopes he will pass down knowledge!!!
>noo i cant find such knowledge by myself I need structure and to be taught im an npc ree!!!

[Anonymous No.20406851]

>>20405952
Maybe you should shill Guenon to your friend so he stops reading Manly P Hall.
>my friend keeps shilling me to read peterson, for years now, even though hes seen my collection of evola and guenon books
So I kind of can relate.

[Anonymous No.20407386]

>>20406851
hes an old drunk set in his ways sadly, he thinks he has it figured out. It is what it is.

[Strange Love No.20408543]

bump

[Anonymous No.20408655]

>>20395704
>transcendental
You fucked up

[Anonymous No.20409167]

>>20402874
>the nature of which it is not permissible to express here
Where can I look? Thanks.

[Anonymous No.20409280]

>>20404087
>moth in hebrew: Ash (Ayin + Shin)
>got something to say about it?
Grail related:
>7th century AD
>Dagoth-UR (formerly Bert) the Second is kil
>[some episodes later]
>European monarch is Pepin the Short (small pp confirmed)
>it goes downhill up to the current timeline
>gamers are opressed and mogged by the ‘’’reality’’’
>seek refuge in shitposting
>end up deep bogged
>receive the Call that saved Europe
>find the Ancient Scroll and meme it true against all odds
ngl this initiation pussy is nice..

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20409286]

>>20409280
>>20404087
“Ash” As in aleph shin is also fire in Hebrew which has a multitude of symbolic connections

[Anonymous No.20409308]

>>20409286
he brew? drink eet.
all connections are sussy (not sufficiently legitimate) when they are not based on nothingness (as in you wil own the Nothing and b Happy).

Hence the Gamer Torah, the complete Torah of the coming people.. who are.. gamers..........

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20409756]

[dago !deClb9SBC. No.20410822]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20410823]

This thread is a damned retard festival.

[dago No.20411263]

>>20410823
thank you for elevating the level of retardedness brother
we couldn't survive without ya

[Anonymous No.20411285]

Pure schizo thread.

[Anonymous No.20411295]

>>20411263
sure. Alchemy is another trope of the Grail lore: more retardation will eventually break free from the common. so yes, as long as each one of us is stepping over one's own confusion and tightness, it will come alive.

[Anonymous No.20411327]

Pure kino thread

[dago No.20411339]

>>20411295
brother, you either believe in HIGH GHIBELLINISM or you don't
simple as

[Anonymous No.20411406]

>>20409756
Cap is from epub version of The Spear of Destiny btw.

[Anonymous No.20411412]

>>20411406

[Anonymous No.20411417]

>>20411339
sure shit I do, the mercurial monarch sneeds hard af will blow off enemies ass retardation his trump card 'i'll show you how far i've progressed in the mastery of this Art' type insano

[Anonymous No.20411448]

>>20395704
>(1) The Grail was not a Christian but a Hyperborean mystery.
it is actually an atlantean-hyperborean mystery since that was the origin of the celtic tradition from which it came
>(2) The Grail legend deals with an initiatory mystery.
correct
>(3) The Grail is a symbolic expression of hope and of the will of specific ruling classes in the Middle Ages (namely, the Ghibellines), who wanted to reorganize and reunite the entire Western world as it was at the time into a Holy Empire, that is, one based on a transcendental, spiritual basis.
the raison d'être of the Grail legend was the quest of the higher states of the being with the goal of spiritual realization, this legend being also connected with the supreme center of the world: Agarttha, the Kingdom of Prester John, etc.

[Anonymous No.20411464]

>>20411412
>>20411198>>20411198>>20411198>>20411198
>Lapis Exilis
the Exodus out of the Egypt (south), when the Isrealites are in the exile
>Ghibellins North
>Guelphs South

Lapis Exilis is the Orb though which the High Priest
>witness the digits

[Anonymous No.20411576]

like Minnesang of old, communicate in verse
jannies might look but they will get the hearse
because fuck reading, I scan my magic orb
It says: beyond the veil of sleep He calls, the Lord
scream if you must and pour your vitriol
if it's so bad then it's not getting worse

[Anonymous No.20413368]

Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem

[Anonymous No.20413376]

>>20404260
You just outed yourself as a larping midwit so evidently it's unreal.

[Anonymous No.20413407]

>>20403829
You are right. Those will seek will find.

[Anonymous No.20413694]

>>20395704
wrong on all three accounts

[Anonymous No.20414291]

>>20403829
>>20413407
What are you referring to? Hesychasm? If you mean modern day templars then they are just a ridiculous masonic organization guilty of surface level syncretism