Stirner

[Anonymous No.20388943]

"You can do whatever the fuck you want because nothing is real", did I understand that right? Is that what her philosophy is?

[Anonymous No.20388952]

>>20388943
I like this quote about how he is "everything and nothing" - his philosophy is actually quite liberating desu.

On a side not, does anyone know where to find a Japanese version of his work? I have a Jap friend I'd like to buy it for. Some fucking hermit wanderer type translated it back in the day.

[Anonymous No.20388965]

The egoist point of view is the basis for human freedom to become evident. Neither the individual, nor the community, nor any ideology or religion are sacred, since neither can be proven to truly exist outside of what is in my head. Once a person really grasps the total freedom of the I, there is no social constraint other than the ego's own self imposed limits. Stirner maintains that ideology, religion, the state, society, characterized by the subordination of the individual to “spirit” in any of its guises, whether Hegelian or of the Abrahamic persuasion.

[Anonymous No.20389171]

>>20388943
>because nothing is real
I Have Based My Affair on Nothing

[Anonymous No.20389175]

>>20388965
>Neither the individual
Huh, isn't the individual same as "I"?

[Anonymous No.20389176]

>>20389175
Other individuals are not I, not I!

[Anonymous No.20389183]

>>20388965
What about causality? If our genes and environment are the reason for our thoughts, where is the freedom? If there's something independent to these, what is that?

[Anonymous No.20389191]

>>20388943
The judge smiled.

[Anonymous No.20389200]

>>20389183
Stirner thinks existence precedes essence like the existentialists; i.e., the individual creates himself.

[Anonymous No.20389222]

>>20389200
So, what is that thing that exists irrespective of genetics, environment and other factors, that creates us?

[Anonymous No.20389229]

>>20389222
Nothing, the Unique quite literally based on nothing but itself.

[Anonymous No.20389235]

>>20388943
God exists. Everything that denies this fact is a cope.

[Anonymous No.20389239]

>>20389235
Cope.

[Anonymous No.20389241]

>>20389229
He did make a slight concession, the part where he says religious people tend to philosophise within a religious framework no matter how hard they may try to break free from it. I think that hints at causality to some extent. I probably got the wrong interpretation though idk.

[Anonymous No.20389242]

>>20389229
How does Stirner define "the unique"?

[Anonymous No.20389254]

>>20389242
>If God, if humanity, as you affirm, have enough content in themselves to be all in all to themselves, then I feel that I would lack it even less, and that I would have no complaint to make about my “emptiness.” I am not nothing in the sense of emptiness, but am the creative nothing, the nothing out of which I myself create everything as creator.

[Anonymous No.20389263]

>>20389254
Retard here, I don't get it. Can someone simplify?

[Anonymous No.20389317]

>>20389263
I think it is intentionally vague.
>Stirner names the unique and says at the same time ‘names don’t name it.’ He utters a name when he names the unique, and adds that the unique is only a name. ... What Stirner says is a word, a thought, a concept; what he means is neither a word, nor a thought, nor a concept. What he says is not the meaning, and what he means cannot be said.

[Anonymous No.20389328]

>>20389317
Now I'm even more confused.

[Anonymous No.20389346]

>>20389239
wrong.

[Anonymous No.20389347]

>>20389328
its meaningless

[Anonymous No.20389380]

>>20389328
Still less confusing than Hegel

[Anonymous No.20389383]

>>20389328
>>20389347
>>20389380

He sounds like he's describing the Tao.

[Anonymous No.20389418]

>>20389383

[Anonymous No.20389432]

>>20389383
Do you understand him? What's he saying?

[Anonymous No.20389512]

>>20389235
He does exist, it's just that he's a nigger and a faggot like yourself

[Anonymous No.20389540]

>>20389235
God exists but you can't reach him through philosophy
Only, like Aquinas did, you can get to the point where ontic realities are necessary created by God

[Anonymous No.20389547]

>>20389317
>>20389263
You can't name it because that would restrict it
The unique is literally "Your name here" in the sense the "You" that you create
In an Aristotelian sense, every entity is made out of esse and essentia, being and "being as", the Unique is the "being as" to your existence.
The "who am i" to the "what am i"

[Anonymous No.20389556]

>>20388943
>"lol bro I can do whatever i want nothing matters im gonna go rape kids!"
>gets hanged

[Anonymous No.20389578]

>>20389556
Yes. Which part do you have trouble with?

[Anonymous No.20389590]

>>20389556
>american immediately starts thinking about raping kids in his hypothetical no-rule scenario

[Anonymous No.20389666]

>>20389556
Yes. It's not like there's divine retribution, many do get away with it. The people hanging you is the same, they are doing it because they can.

[Anonymous No.20389759]

>>20388943
>"Liberate yourself as far as you can, and you have done your part; for it is not given to every one to break through all limits,or,more expressively, not to every one is that a limit which is a limit for the rest. Consequently,do not tire yourself with toiling at the limits of others...He who overturns one of his limits may have shown others the way and the means; the overturning of their limits remains their affair.” - Max Stirner
"You learn how to live autonomously." - Zen Master Foyan
>>20389556
Its always weird seeing people have this nihilistic interpretation of Stirner when he just makes it clear you don't have to be a pawn of political causes, and live your doing the things make you happy. You're not obligated to get your head blown off in Ukraine for Zelensky, or sacrifice your limited time here serving irrelevant communist party who exploits your sympathy for dues party. The reason he was hated by communists, by liberals, anarchists, and still is today, he mocked the belief that humanity had a distinct goal to achieve. Most people already are aware of this; you are extremely privileged to even discuss politics either way; most people will always be apolitical wanderers like Saint Max, and not trannies on twitter.

[Anonymous No.20389810]

Spooky

[Anonymous No.20389853]

>>20389556
>>20389578
lol

[Anonymous No.20389920]

i get the feeling Stirner is what the average Pseud thinks Nietzsche is.

[Anonymous No.20389946]

>you should not do things because you are forced by any spiritual or social system
>"AHHHHHHHHH THIS IS LITERALLY THE WORST SECULAR AND RELIGIOUS EVIL IMAGINABLE"

[Anonymous No.20389958]

>>20389920
Philosophy is for psueds with low paying humanities degrees.

[Anonymous No.20389964]

>>20389958
>makes pseud post
>calls others pseuds
why even shitpost on 4chan

[Anonymous No.20389997]

>>20388943
Morality does not exist outside of your brain. To be subject to it or not is your own choice. There's no obligation either way.

[Anonymous No.20390000]

>>20389964
>He thinks philosophy majors make money
Put some cream on that latte for me

[Anonymous No.20390014]

>>20390000
>he has the reading comprehension of an angry ape
How do you even expect to hold a job?

[Anonymous No.20390042]

>>20390014
How do you expect a job when you are an angry ape?

[Anonymous No.20390045]

>>20390014
>job

[Anonymous No.20390051]

>>20390014
>Seething philosophy major talking people about not having jobs
Hahahahaha

[Anonymous No.20390065]

>>20390051
I'm a CompSci you moron. I have no clue why you got attached to the unmentioned line about the major instead of the philosophy part, re read the posts.

[Anonymous No.20390074]

>>20390065
>I'm a CompSci
Yeah, you're a student without a job. So yes, my point stands.

[Anonymous No.20390077]

>>20390065
>I'm a CompSci
How are you calling people apes when you bought a degree to get skills that freely available on YT?

[Anonymous No.20390086]

>>20389317
so he was a sort of proto-wiggenstein?

[Anonymous No.20390088]

>>20389556
amorality can only work if you´re a hermit

[Anonymous No.20390097]

>>20390077
>>20390074

[Anonymous No.20390118]

>>20390088
Amorality can only work if you have no fear of death

[Anonymous No.20390152]

>>20390086
Wait, Wittgenstein's philosophy is similar to his?! Is his writing as accessible?

[Anonymous No.20390221]

>>20389920
Explain?

[Anonymous No.20390234]

How does Stirner explain fate then, If be completely free? Or does not believe there being such a thing as fate?

[Anonymous No.20390241]

>>20390234
>How does he explain this made-up thing in my head
I dunno

[Anonymous No.20390313]

>>20389317
Reminds me of The Tao.

[Anonymous No.20390407]

>>20390241
Okay, so what are his beliefs on determinism?

[Anonymous No.20390418]

>>20389229
you see why you can't take these guys seriously, he's basically arguing that he's God.

[Anonymous No.20390425]

>>20389540
I still have to found someone who can be said to have refuted or made irrelevant Aquinas's five ways.
>inb4 Hume

[Anonymous No.20390426]

>>20390407
Toll 6>>20390407

[Anonymous No.20390430]

>>20389666
hi Satan.

[Anonymous No.20390437]

>>20390234
You gotta stop thinking Stirner is a preacher that can solve your problems

[Anonymous No.20390443]

>>20390000
philosophy majors don't make money because modern philosophy is trash and impractical anyway, nobody feels the need, breath abated, to know how this or that guy will solve the problem of substances.
Rhetoric, Dialectic and such and teaching them can still be a good career avenue, ask the guys writing those books about how to impress people and appease boomers, they clearly make quite a coin.

[Anonymous No.20390446]

>>20390097
we stopped caring about this so long ago...

[Anonymous No.20390476]

>>20390426
Huh?

[Anonymous No.20390653]

>>20390407
Does it matter? What are you going to do differently if determinism is true? Nothing, since you wouldn't have any control over it anyway.

[Anonymous No.20390681]

What I still find funny is how mad he made Marx.

[Anonymous No.20390813]

>>20390653
I'm just curious because stirner talks about being free from everything, but if determinism is real, how can be free from causality?

[Anonymous No.20390927]

>>20390813
Our ability to imagine the future makes the future a causal ingredient in our lives, liberating us from being wholly determined by the past.

[Anonymous No.20391044]

uhmm bros??????

[Anonymous No.20391056]

>>20391044
>A person should
nope

[Anonymous No.20391065]

>>20391056
>a person ought to

[Anonymous No.20391347]

>>20388943
How do I get a stirnette gf?

[Anonymous No.20391813]

>>20389853
Is that a girl or is that Armin from SNK?

[Anonymous No.20392150]

>>20388952
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4329020661/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_7YG5KV9AB9T2F018W2T7
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/432902067X/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_3TY8F8GMD24VWAWR6T8V

It's in two tomes in Japan
Also you better buy it with shipping under his address because shipping outside of Japan is expensive
There are also other editions, search for 唯一者とその所有 on Japanese Google/Amazon

[Anonymous No.20392166]

>>20388943
>her
What did he mean by this?
Philosophers aren't women

[Anonymous No.20392381]

>>20390927
But aren't our thoughts the product of our environment and our genetic makeup, so the imagined future would be the product of it too.

[Anonymous No.20392705]

>>20390418
Based

[Anonymous No.20392715]

>>20389920
No, Nietzsche is what the average pseud thinks Stirner is.

[Anonymous No.20392883]

>>20390418
there is no such thing as god, or existence. what you call god or existence can only be perceived through the lens of the unique one

[Anonymous No.20392889]

>>20390221
I think he's referring to how normalfags think Nietzsche's philosophy was "dude nothing matters bro just do what you want" and that he was advocating for nihilism. Stirner is closer to that caricature than Nietzsche if anything, although its obviously a simplification

[Anonymous No.20392899]

>>20392889
people who say that clearly never read nietzsche. his work is about overcoming nihilism. i dont understand why thats a popular conception

[Anonymous No.20393027]

>>20392889
There’s nothing in Stirner that says life is inherently without meaning from what I remember, but that one should become master over their fate and avoid being an involuntary egoist by believing in a meaning higher than the individual (granted, Stirner himself didn’t seem to have any such meaning with phrases like “all things are nothing to me”). I haven’t read Nietzsche but I doubt he would have believed in a universal meaning of life either.

[Anonymous No.20393587]

>>20393027
>master over their fate and avoid being an involuntary egoist by believing in a meaning higher than the individual
Does he tell you how to do it, or does he expect you find out on your own?

[Anonymous No.20393669]

Anyone else think Napoleon was a practical egoist? He clearly didn't give an actual shit about liberal values and only used them as a tool for his own gain.

[Anonymous No.20393694]

>>20392889
It's always most funny to me when people categorize Nietzsche a priori as an existentialist and then attempt to criticize him on the basis that "individuals can't create their own meaning; the individual is a product of his society", when Nietzsche spends countless pages speaking about how the historic ubermenschen of the world required generations and generations of perfection at the level of a civilization and society to hone their instincts and perfect a type of man which no longer needs to even think to be perfect.

[Anonymous No.20393891]

>>20389229
Sounds no different than a soul.

[Anonymous No.20393902]

>>20389263
The self creates everythibg for itself out of intangible nothing. Basically he's asserting that his own individual ego is God s the creator of itself.

[Anonymous No.20393931]

>>20392899
>his work is about overcoming nihilism
And you're just regurgitating what you've heard other Neet bros say. I swear I've seen this exact comment word for word a million times on /lit/

[Anonymous No.20393940]

>>20389432
"The Tao that can be understood is not the Tao"-Tao Te Ching

[Anonymous No.20393961]

>>20393587
He gives you a list of spooks but from there it’s up to you.

[Anonymous No.20393965]

>>20388943
"Her"

Anyways I never saw the point of being pro feminist and being an egoist. But carry on.

[Anonymous No.20394011]

>>20393965
Stirner specifically attacks equality doctrines in his work:
>But whom do you imagine under the name of egoist? A human being who, instead of living an idea, i.e., a spiritual thing, and sacrificing his personal advantage to it, serves the latter. A good patriot, for example, brings his sacrifice to the altar of the fatherland; but it cannot be disputed that the fatherland is an idea, since for animals with no capacity for mind, or children who are still mindless, there is no fatherland and no patriotism. Now, if someone does not prove himself to be a good patriot, he betrays his egoism in relation to the fatherland. And so it goes in countless other cases: whoever makes use of a privilege in human society sins egoistically against the idea of equality; whoever exercises dominance is chastised as an egoist against the idea of freedom, etc.

[Anonymous No.20394489]

>>20394011
so, he's saying you should be a good patriot? I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.20395004]

>>20394489
No, he's using patriotism as an example of the individual subordinating their ego to an ideal or spirit. The ego is being bound to the enforced social parameters of equality, freedom, fatherland, and what not

[Anonymous No.20395634]

>>20393965
bruh, that was just the "typical 4chan assignment of female gender to arbitrary things that you're attracted to" shitpost.

[Anonymous No.20395902]

>>20395634
Why do you even bother.

[Anonymous No.20396045]

>>20388943
Pretty much, yeah.

[Anonymous No.20396431]

What makes Stirner so great? His simplicity?

[Anonymous No.20396740]

>>20396431
I think it’s his satire and playful attitude.

[Anonymous No.20397613]

>>20396740
>his satire
can you give an example?

[Anonymous No.20397844]

>>20392899
>might makes right!
>NOOOOO I'M TRYING TO OVERCOME NIHILISM
Also his philosophy is taken by edgy teenagers who miss completely the point Nietzsche was trying to make. I don't know if a world where everyone seeks for power would overcome nihilism. And recognising there must be slaves for the greater good it's kinda sad.

[Anonymous No.20397913]

>>20392883
so if I murder you God will cease to exist?

[Anonymous No.20398039]

what book read for stirner first

[Anonymous No.20398384]

>>20388943
I think you got it

[Anonymous No.20398398]

>>20396431
He brought sophistry to the dialectic.
He birthed Nietzche, Bataille and Deleuze.
He made the first polkadot pants and invented the moon walk.
He invented the the printing press and used it to nail a thesaurus to the door of the Vatican.
Without him there would be no sliced bread in any of the markets in 7 corners of the earth god damnit.

[Anonymous No.20398451]

>>20390681
Details? Where can I read the story between them?

[Anonymous No.20398463]

>>20398451
The German Ideology
Nietzche and Philosophy
The Accursed Share
The Penguin Classics edition of the Communist Manifesto

[Anonymous No.20398496]

>>20398398
sauce for pic?

[Anonymous No.20398543]

>>20388965
Except you don’t have total freedom, never will. If you just take a step back it reads like a nerd got bound up in his head and went on a power trip. It’s all nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20398555]

>>20389759
And what if being a bloodthirsty killer makes you happy? What if your ego is satiated by having a run-in with something powerful than you? At best, Egoism totally falls apart the minute any force which has more power you do enters the scene. At worst, it’s some nerd grappling with his disbelief in God and writing some power fantasies.

[Anonymous No.20398868]

>>20398555
The biggest misconception about egoism is thinking that it's an ideology that should be followed by everybody or even anyone. Egoism is not about the individual vs the collective, it's about me vs everything else against me. So if a serial killer is killing, who cares? As long as it's not affecting me or my ego.
>Egoism totally falls apart the minute any force which has more power you do enters the scene
How? Striving to protect your ego doesn't mean it won't go unshaked by outside forces.

[Anonymous No.20398880]

>>20398555
>what if being a bloodthirsty killer makes you happy?
Defend yourself or be killed.
>What if your ego is satiated by having a run-in with something powerful than you?
>”What a difference between freedom and ownness! One can get rid of a lot, but one doesn’t get rid of everything; one becomes free from much, but not from all. One may be free inwardly despite a condition of slavery, though, once again, it is only from a whole lot of things, not from everything; but as a slave one does not get free from the whip, the imperious temper, etc., of the master. “Freedom lives only in the realm of dreams!” On the other hand, ownness is my whole essence and existence, it is myself. I am free from what I am rid of, owner of what I have in my power, what I control. I am at all times and under every circumstance my own, if I know how to have myself and do not waste myself on others. Being free is something that I cannot truly will, because I cannot make it, I cannot create it: I can only wish for it and—strive for it, because it remains an ideal, a phantasm. The fetters of reality cut the sharpest welts in my flesh at every moment. But I remain my own. Given over in bondage to a master, I think only of myself and my advantage; his blows indeed strike me, I am not free from them; but I endure them only for my benefit, perhaps to deceive him and make him feel safe with my sham of patience or, again, to avoid rousing anger against myself through my insubordination. But because I keep an eye out for myself and my self-interest, I grab the first good opportunity by the forelock to crush the slave-owner.”

[Anonymous No.20398941]

>>20388943
>the 21st century Stirner

[Anonymous No.20398960]

>>20398941
Richard Dawkins?

[Anonymous No.20398983]

>>20388943
this is a political compass fan ideology, i have never someone over the age of 16 hold these beliefs. go back to doing your geometry homework please.

[Anonymous No.20399011]

>>20398983
>If there are those who abandon these feelings, and who, for example, hear the actions of “evil people” with pleasure, they would have to be “chastised and educated” with the rod. Thus stuffed with imparted feelings, we appear at the gates of maturity and are “declared of age.” Our equipment consists of “elevated feelings, lofty thoughts, inspiring precepts, eternal principles,” etc. Young people are mature then when they twitter like the old; they get rushed through school to learn the same old song, and, when they have taken this in, they are declared of age.
Seethe

[Anonymous No.20399108]

>>20398543
This. Max Stirner is refuted by me being capable of wringing his skinny little pencil neck, thus submitting him to my will.

[Anonymous No.20399133]

>>20399108
You wouldn’t do shit.

[Anonymous No.20399157]

>>20399133
He's threatening a dead guy on a basketweaving forum, he is made of hard stuff.

[Anonymous No.20399165]

>>20389175
The idea is that "THE individual" as a generalized conception, who is ascribed specific basic needs and rights and invoked in legal and other contexts, is still a generalized concept merely disguising as the pre-verbalized lived experience Stirner wants to get at. He recognizes the limited ability to properly express what he is getting at in language, which only deals in generalized "Phrasen", in "Stirner's Critics". The basic idea he presupposes in his work is that you are more than the sum of generalizable verbal attributions ascribable to you, and that this "more than" is in fact what is the most central for you. This is, of course, something that you can only intuit, not "prove", so you either feel it and go with it or not, i guess.

[Anonymous No.20399178]

>>20399133
>>20399157
>You are wrong because... you are le weak!!!
Okay so you admit I'm actually right then you effeminate demoralizing pseuds, kek.

[Anonymous No.20399194]

>>20399178
No, read >>20398880

[Anonymous No.20399215]

>>20399194
I did read it, and it is the ramblings of a weak nerd with megalomania. If you can't intuitively recognize the faults with his "rebel in spirit" tirade and how little it actually reflects slavery as an institution then you're a retard.

[Anonymous No.20399238]

>>20399215
Post neck