The Black Book of Communism

[Anonymous No.20384657]

Thoughts on the famous Black Book? It makes commies rage and seethe and shit their pants, so it's based in my opinion. Also so what if the statistics aren't perfect: the authors acknowledge this; and the repression and violence in the USSR & elsewhere was evident regardless, so the exact numbers are only further proof of the horrors of communism on top of eyewitness accounts (commies will say books like The Gulag Archipelago are lies because they're dishonest bastards who can't cope with the fact that their core beliefs have been comprehensively refuted, and want to memoryhole all dissent just like Papa Stalin would want). Fuck u commies.

[salvia nelle opzioni No.20384760]

im fine with communists and communism committing genocides.
human capital (ie human cattle) must be utterly erased from the face of the earth

[Anonymous No.20384800]

>>20384760
So everything and everyone is capital, according to you?

[salvia nelle opzioni No.20384831]

>>20384800
yes. thanks for the you, btw

[Anonymous No.20384935]

>>20384657
I'm not really interested in that book because it mostly documents the crimes of capitalism, and I'm already against capitalism so I don't need any extra convincing

[Anonymous No.20384940]

>>20384935
Did capitalism make Josef Stalin personally order the execution of tens of thousands of his own party's cadres? The answer is no.

[Anonymous No.20384944]

>>20384940
Well, did communism do that? Or was it just Stalin in control of a totalitarian system with communist-adjacent aesthetics?

[Anonymous No.20384953]

>>20384944
Don't you play the semantics game with me. The Bolsheviks were avowed Communists, with a big "C."

[Anonymous No.20384963]

>>20384940
yes, crushing any remaining revolutionary elements that could potentially restore the anti-capitalist revolution in Russia was in the interest of capital, and Stalin could only remain in power because he was doing what was needed to be done to build up Russia as a modern capitalist superpower. this isn't exactly rocket science
>>20384953
you just wrote about Stalin executing the remaining Bolsheviks though

[Anonymous No.20384980]

>>20384963
You're delusional mate.

[Anonymous No.20384989]

>>20384657
Every comprehensive economic system of governance is gay because humanity is gay. Focusing solely on how incredibly gay communism is and then ignoring how unfathomably gay capitalism is (the evidence of which can be seen by just looking at how gay the world is right now) is, ironically, the most giga gay thing anyone can do.

Communism lost, capitalism won. The world is still gay. Putting effort into beating the dead horse while the live one is having gay sex with your ass means that you're enjoying horsecock in your ass, and hence, are very gay.

[Anonymous No.20384995]

Enough is enough. The 20th century is over and the governments have been established for better or worse. You waste brainpower on this shit. We need to focus on the future, communism is irrelevant the experiment is over.

[Anonymous No.20385005]

>>20384989
Eloquent, succinct, correct.

[Anonymous No.20385265]

>>20384953
What I'm trying to tell you is that correlation is not causation.
Did Stalin execute all those people because he was carrying out the communist agenda, or because he was a paranoid autocrat?
Communism doesn't necessitate totalitarianism, and when you have such a small sample size it's kind of like judging the economic system of capitalism based on, I don't know, the regimes of Pinochet and Franco.

[Anonymous No.20385272]

>>20384657
Haven't read it. You?

[Anonymous No.20385273]

>>20385265
>Did Stalin execute all those people because he was carrying out the communist agenda
Yes and he did literally nothing wrong.

[Anonymous No.20385495]

>>20384657
>Communist countries killed people so Communism is evil
For any horror that Communism has committed, and they do exist, there are 2-3 you can show committed by a Capitalist country. But when you point this out they'll say that it wasn't the fault of Capitalism because Capitalism is just a pure economic system completely independent of the actual actions of the governments that create it. It's an emotional, childish, and dishonest type of debate that really just shows they have no real points in favor of their system and just try to shame people into submission to their unjustifiable system.

Compare any Communist country to an equivalent Capitalist country at the start of their revolution and then compare them 10-20 years later and you will find with few exceptions that they by far have the better outcome despite Capitalists every attempt to destroy them.

[Anonymous No.20385503]

Bug men have really come out in force for this thread.

[Anonymous No.20385617]

>>20384657
>Thoughts on the famous Black Book?
Just recycled cold war propaganda. The Asian stuff is especially worthless. The only chapter with anything even a little "new" was on the cheka

>Also so what if the statistics aren't perfect: the authors acknowledge this; and the repression and violence in the USSR & elsewhere was evident regardless, so the exact numbers are only further proof of the horrors of communism on top of eyewitness accounts
Than what's the point of using statistics? Just stick with "eyewitness accounts"... like "yellow rain"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_rain

[Anonymous No.20385624]

>>20384935
>IT WASNT REAL COMMUNISM!!!1!! HELP ME IM HAVING A BREAKDOWN!!1

[Anonymous No.20385638]

>>20385495
because most of the flaws that kill people because of capitalism also occur, often in ever greater amounts, under communism. Workers were still opressed, poor people still starved and the environment still got polluted. Communism didn't fix this and neither does capitalism. No system can fix this fully. The best measurment is to see how much these issues are eleviated and capitalism hase been vastly more successful in this than communism.

[Anonymous No.20385649]

The only “worthwhile” communism is some post-scarce cybercommunist shit, so too bad.
Unconditional acceleration is necessary.

[Anonymous No.20385664]

>REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED!!1

[Anonymous No.20386115]

>>20385638
See now this is an actual, real argument we can sink our teeth issue. We have a real statement about the comparative realities between life in Capitalism vs Communism instead of hand wringing hysterics.

>Workers were still opressed
Oppression is relative, what is our metric?

>poor people still starved
Successful Communist uprisings don't happen because things are going great in the country. Typically they occur during our after periods of intense economic stress, followed by bitter warfare, and then an entire political and economic restructuring. In the beginning, food scarcity is a big issue but almost always after the initial uncertainty there is higher caloric intake and life expectancy than in previous governments or their Capitalist equivalent.

>the environment still got polluted.
This was a big issue with both the USSR and China. However, I would say that Communism has a better potential to deal with pollution as its evidence that Capitalism to this day has not resolved its own issues. Overall, I'd say this is a wash.


>The best measurment is to see how much these issues are eleviated and capitalism hase been vastly more successful in this than communism.
One of the big issues with the perception of Communism is that it actually improves the countries so much that people start making comparisons to economies that are far outside their weight class. Pre-communist Russia at the height of its success had the equivalent GDP of a poor south American country then by the 50's its being compared to America at its absolute peak of success and vying to be a world superpower. The same thing happened in Chigovernment. The vast majority of people were lifted out of poverty. But when previously poor, backward countries are rocketed into success they are then judged by a much higher standard. This ultimately goes back to the issue that while our economy depends on the exploitation of the third world when we conceive of the relative pros and cons of Capitalism we only think about it from the perspective of a first world nation. But the vast majority of people on the planet are under a global system of Capitalism that has not and never will actually address their issues. Statistical analysis has shown that the only thing that has ever truly reduced true (important word there) global poverty has been the implementation of Communist systems of government.

[Anonymous No.20386124]

>>20384657
Now we just need one for neoliberalism.

[Anonymous No.20386131]

>>20384944
>when commies commit atrocities is the fault of individuals, when non commies do it, its the fault of capitalism.

Nice double standard.

[Anonymous No.20386139]

>>20385495
Capitalism doesnt exit. The West is still (to some) degree an open society where multiple political world views are allowed to exist together

It sucks but we can blame communism, but you cant turn it around. You are free to blame American Imperialism, but.... thats not the same as the Monarchical Imperialism of king Leopold, or German Christian-Democracy, or Baptist Creationism or Fascist Spain etc.

The West is plural, but Communism is not.

[Blarty Hongo !H0lVGXJNm6 No.20386157]

>>20384657
I usually see it invoked in arguments where people are trying to win by saying "Your guy killed 50000000000000000 people so that means you're wrong." It probably means nothing to anyone who isn't an apologist for the Soviet Union or other red-banner states. And even then, it's not like anyone, even the most dogmatic Stalinist, is unaware of the claim that the Soviet Union and other Communist regimes killed a bunch of people.

I also find it a bit distasteful to see actual mass human suffering weaponized to win internet arguments.

[Anonymous No.20386163]

>>20386157
>I also find it a bit distasteful
Morality is a tool of the sociopath.

[Blarty Hongo !H0lVGXJNm6 No.20386200]

>>20386163
>Morality is a tool of the sociopath.
Imagine watching your whole family starve to death in the Holodomor and then 90 years later some right-wing neckbeard is using that event to score points in an internet argument. Most people who engage in argumentum ad death toll don't give a fuck about the actual suffering that occurred. They're gleeful to be able to say "Your side killed 900000000000000000 people so that makes you wrong and me right."

[Anonymous No.20386209]

>>20386200
You are using morality as a tool to get people to abandon a decent talking point. You are a sociopath.

[Anonymous No.20386218]

>>20386124
One? It’ll be at least a three volume set.

[Anonymous No.20386221]

>communism failed
>fascism failed
>capitalism failed
embrace the fourth position

[Blarty Hongo !H0lVGXJNm6 No.20386226]

>>20386209
"This guy I've decided represents your side killed ten gazillion people, ha ha" is not a decent talking point. It's cheap, it's uninformative, it's unpersuasive and it trivializes tragic events.

[Anonymous No.20386315]

>>20386226
>"This guy I've decided represents your side killed ten gazillion people, ha ha" is not a decent talking point.

Why?

Calling it cheap or unpersuasive does not make it so.

I dont think its either, I think its sensible.

[Anonymous No.20386384]

>>20384760
Based posadist

[Anonymous No.20386510]

>>20386139
>true capitalism has never been tried

[Anonymous No.20386553]

>>20386131
Pretty natural occurrence when the system itself incentives and rewards abuse if it comes at a profit. There's a clear causal link there, Timmy.

[Anonymous No.20386567]

>>20386139
Pluralism is a feature of liberal Capitalism- as long as it's capitalistic. Any country that strays from Capitalism even slightly will get death squads, coups, annexation, and anything else you can think of. In the same way, Communism also has a multi-party system with the exception that it doesn't allow non-communistic parties.

"That wasn't real capitalism" is not an argument.

[Anonymous No.20386597]

>>20386315
Let me make a similar argument that was actually made historically to show you the fallacy.

"Robespierre killed 10000 gorillion people therefor any country that tries to get rid of kings is evil"

[Anonymous No.20386608]

Schmitt makes this interesting connection that Liberalism was suppose to solve the problem of civil wars that plagued monarchist countries by creating another way to safely trade leadership without potentially destroying the country. When you see pathologies within Liberalism that acts like a technocratic police state that does everything it can to keep order through a modern Hobbesian state, it’s the same pathological habit of keeping order from the “state of nature”, but what technocrat criminals don’t realize is that violence is not bad or good absolutes, but SOMETIMES necessary to remove the corrupt to
bring fourth a competent social norm.

[Anonymous No.20386609]

>>20386200
Imagine watching in horror as every single one of your family was brutally executed by guillotine for disagreeing with the insane democratic mobs. Surely you're not in favor of Democracy anon?

[Anonymous No.20386673]

>>20384657
>It makes commies rage and seethe and shit their pants
>so it's based in my opinion
One of the most retarded takes ive ever seen. First, you've never spoken to a commie, and that's because you dont know the difference between a tankie and an anarkiddie.
Second, your reasoning is so goddamn irrational. "it's not based because it's based on facts (as you yourself said), but because it makes commies seeth."
>Also so what if the statistics aren't perfect: the authors acknowledge this
Statistics is the discipline that concerns the collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data (wikipedia).
If the data is flawed, then the conclusions are flawed.
>and the repression and violence in the USSR & elsewhere was evident regardless
>evident
You are such a victim of the system, anon. Evident? On what? On Operation Gladio? On COINTELPRO? On what Radio Free Europe says? I mean, you are so naive, anon...
>they're dishonest bastards who can't cope with the fact that their core beliefs have been comprehensively refuted
Just like the traditional values? I mean, look around: do you see kids being pro-life, against drugs, against LGBT, against prostitution etc.? Common, if you want it, you can say that traditional values are refuted to the point where noone should believe in god.

You are such a victim of the glowniggers propaganda, anon.
I really wanna say it: among those like Solzhenitsyn there were faggots, because faggots were outlaws in USSR. while in amerimuttland they were free to go, free to become PRIESTS AND FUCK YOUR CHILDREN.
And now, normalpeople dont support them, but they get support from big pharma and big corps... While in commie land they were shot dead.

[Anonymous No.20386873]

>>20385265
>Did Stalin execute all those people because he was carrying out the communist agenda, or because he was a paranoid autocrat?
neither, he was carrying the capitalist agenda of crushing any remains of the October revolution so that WW II isn't followed by a communist revolution just like WW I was
>>20385624
murdering communist revolutionaries and strengthening national capitalism isn't communist. if you're having a breakdown you should leave this thread and seek help

[Anonymous No.20386952]

>>20386873
>murdering communist revolutionaries and strengthening national capitalism isn't communist. if you're having a breakdown you should leave this thread and seek help
He was right to do it, those people were either idealist children or Shining Path tier psychopaths.