I'm leaning towards doing an MA in English lit, possibly a PhD afterwards. I really don't know what else to do because I'm mostly useless. Grad students and academics of /lit/, is it worth it?

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Anonymous Fri May 13 23:14:29 2022 No.20366533 [Reply] [Original]

I'm leaning towards doing an MA in English lit, possibly a PhD afterwards. I really don't know what else to do because I'm mostly useless. Grad students and academics of /lit/, is it worth it?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:17:26 2022 No.20366539 I graduated with a Comparative Literature degree and then did a Master's in Data Science. I work at a bank now.

Anonymous Fri May 13 23:18:03 2022 No.20366541

Yes, it's worth it, if you throw yourself into it fully - make it your raison d'etre and determine to learn as much and perform as best as you can in that time. It will be rewarding in itself, that way, and you might just find you can get a job at the end of it.
Also, as unpleasant as it sounds, cultivate mentor relationships. They are invaluable.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:23:54 2022 No.20366557 >>20366541 >>20366541 thanks that sounds like something I could fully get behind. I'm not entirely sure about going into teaching though to be honest I was thinking maybe getting into publishing. Any advice on that front?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:27:49 2022 No.20366565 >>20366533 Is 25 too late to do this? I’m tired of the trades.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:30:28 2022 No.20366570 >>20366565 no not at all I'm 26, many grad students are in their mid-late 20s and I've met many PhD students in their 30s. If you want it go for it. What trade are you in btw?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:38:18 2022 No.20366585 >>20366533 No, do not do it if you have any ambition of working in the field. The best case employment scenario for the EngLit PhD is to teach comp and business writing classes on a stable contract, and all the other options are worse than that.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 13 23:40:49 2022 No.20366593 >>20366565 I started at 24 or 25, am now a professor at 40.Go for it

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:06:09 2022 No.20366677

I did a PhD in the humanities and I've always been reluctant to advise getting one, basically my stance has been that you should only do it if you
>really really REALLY love the subject, no fucking around
>understand that the form of "studying" the subject they force you to do very well may actually kill your love of the subject (the first 2-3 years of most PhD programs are just a re-do of undergrad busywork, often with even more bullshit hoops to jump through)
>understand that your romantic notions of "academia" are wrong, and it's just a diploma mill for women and people too unambitious to be lawyers or doctors
>understand that you will probably not get a stable, let alone a good, job in academia
>understand that even if you do get a stable job, it will probably be when you're 37 and badly burned out from applying and reapplying for 1-2 year contracts with shit benefits that require you to move across the country or world if you're "lucky" enough to get one
>understand that all of the above was true of the status quo circa 2010-2015, and now it's even WORSE, and it's going to be EVEN WORSE THAN THAT by the time you are ABD
>understand that if you don't end up working in academia (or wanting to even if you could do), or worse, you end up burning out and quitting while ABD (or earlier), you will have wasted a lot of time, and be entering the workforce as an overqualified 30+ year old glorified bachelor of arts, while normal people are 5-10 years into promotions and real job experience
>understand that there is nothing magical or wonderful about a PhD, most PhDs are lazy makework, barring rare exceptions no great original research is being done anymore and people are just slapping together absolute turds (and you will likely even be encouraged to produce a fast and efficient turd, on the assumption that you all you and anybody else cares about anymore is producing the lumpy raw material to hock on the adjunct job market you can slap it together into a monograph nobody reads so you can justify begging for a tenure track job)

I used to say, if you don't mind ALL of this, AND you can get good funding, AND you get into a prestigious program so you at least have a shot of decent positions down the line, then hey go for it. Either you know the risks and genuinely want to try running this shitty gauntlet for a 50/50 chance of a state school job after 15 years of TAing and adjuncting, or you don't even plan to go into academia and just want to use your funding as welfare, and somehow it doesn't bother you that you'll emerge the other end of this an unemployable hippie.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:07:11 2022 No.20366678

>>20366677
But now it's even worse. I thought academia would stagnate in this low effort adjunct hell for a generation but I think it's actually going to collapse or restructure a lot faster than that. I would advise people going into it now to be ready for weird restructurings halfway through your program, to keep even more of an eye out for bullshit and make sure you have escape plans if the industry collapses completely before you make it to the finish line, etc.

Also, I used to say that teaching is meh, just like the PhD itself it's nothing mystical unless you're some ancient professor who can design his own course and teach it to unusually dedicated students. But it has gotten exponentially worse in the last few years. Zoomers are a whole new breed of "checked out," and grad students are mostly highly motivated but passionless female paper-pushers. All students now give off a vibe that their highest ambition in life is to get an office job where you call the boss by his first name and there's a communal gummy bear bowl. There is very very very little feeling of

If you do go in, expect the industry to get even worse, fast, and expect the students to be total ditzes and creepy Stepford Wife rich people who are always smiling and always going on vacations and talking about what food they ate recently and about social drama, but never about their actual work. When they do talk about their work, it's about its contemporary Twitter tier "relevance." I'm serious, expect what is left of scholarly standards to drop even more in the coming 5-10 years. PhD topics have been increasingly farcical and trendy since the '90s, it's a running joke, but I'm starting to see outright Twitter parody thesis topics coming out of places like Princeton and Oxford, and they are taken seriously. The diversity push is accelerating whatever erosion was already happening, standards are being lowered as long as things have the right "face" on them, and the bloated admin keeps trying to make up for the damage caused by lowering standards by lowering more standards.

I'd never want a shitpost of mine to decide someone's life trajectory, but I also find it hard to restrain my genuine opinion that the whole institution is going to implode soon. Assume I'm merely cranky, but at least file this all away, as one extreme possibility of just how bad things really are.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 00:15:47 2022 No.20366707 >>20366557 No advice from direct experience, but it seems to be a common route for those who choose not to or are unable to pursue academia after their doctorate. So I take it that it is easier to get into.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:19:10 2022 No.20366724

>>20366677
>>20366678
>There's very little feeling of
I forgot to finish this. There's very little feeling of a "life of the mind," or of scholarly collegiality, in short of anything you think it's going to be like because you read The Secret History or watched Good Will Hunting. I can't stress this enough. Students, including grad students, are not cardigan-wearing Shakespeare-quoters at least trying to shallowly one-up each other. That would be a massive improvement on what now exists. Now it's just a bunch of identical effete yuppies with California accents talking about Coachella and how much their dad paid for their high school. If that's your social set, maybe you can handle that. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has a soul. There has been a MASSIVE push toward more exclusivity and elitism in recent years, as more upper middle class parvenus want a veneer of polish for their dud Adderall abusing kids, and the result has paradoxically been that all the students are now from a very homogeneous coastal elite background, and they all have the same philistine, nouveau riche worldview and opinions.

All this being said, I will add that for certain /lit/ constitutions, fucking around for 5-8 years at Princeton reading Milton and learning languages can be fun, if you can pull it off. If your dream is to get a PhD and you don't go because it's economically unwise, try to find ways to keep your dreams alive and impose discipline on yourself to keep up your scholarly interests even while outside of academia. The one nice thing about being paid to research Milton (or whatever your thing is) is that it keeps your head in it, it forces you to identify as a scholar. It also teaches you research skills that are theoretically easy to learn but in practice nobody not being forced to learn them through repetitive busywork will do so. You can do all this outside academia, it's just that most people won't because it's easier to procrastinate and half-ass your interests until they slowly fade away and everyday life takes precedence. If you want to be a Milton scholar, don't let whether you go for a PhD or not be the deciding factor in you being one.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:27:08 2022 No.20366750

>>20366678
This is pretty depressing, I just finished my first year of undergrad as a mature student after spending several years working. I have spoken to people doing masters and its just a fuck about the whole way through. Nobody turns up, nobody does the reading, the whole point of a seminar environment is discussion but you dont get any because even if if people did the reading and show up they don't have opinions on it the whole thing just seems like a daycare for 18 year olds who are just doing it as a holding pattern while they pay fees to figure out what they actually want to do

very disheartening to hear that even PHD is rotted out this way

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:27:57 2022 No.20366755

>>20366724
What anon describes here and above is very much worst-case scenario: I did my PhD in a top-5 British university and I would say that only 10-20% of the people I studied with would recognise much of their experience in anon's post. BUT he's quite right that you should bear it in mind as a possibility - it's better you go in with low expectations and are pleasantly surprised, than with utopian ideals that will shatter and shatter you with them.
Ultimately a PhD in literature is s highly solitary endeavour, which makes it lonely but also means that you alone decide to a large extent what you do or don't get out of it.
Anon's last paragraph on Milton is absolutely on the money.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:37:25 2022 No.20366792

>>20366533
English undergrad here, why the fuck are there so many "research" papers? Reading other people's ideas and restating them is not research. This is my fourth major and I think I am just done with school entirely. I was only going because I have the GI Bill but it is not even worth my time.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:41:37 2022 No.20366801

>>20366750
Take everything I said with a grain of salt because I am basically the reincarnation of Carlyle and I fucking hate yuppies so much that it probably jaundices my perspective

I knew a guy who did a Master's degree at an Ivy and I remember he said it was "90% people who shouldn't have been there." Apparently it was for people who got rejected while applying for the PhD, but were given the "opportunity" to pay for an MA themselves, and then reapply for the PhD later. So it was basically a way to milk money from people who didn't make it through admissions, and had money to burn and still wanted to live the life of a professional student for a while longer. In fairness, he said the other 10% were people who did have what it takes to do the PhD, and many of them did apply the second time and get into that school or other Ivy League schools.

But from my experience, I can confirm nobody really did the readings. People didn't even take comps seriously. I met a few exceptional people who actually cared here and there, and they also had few nice things to say about the state of things.

I think above all you have to make sure you are getting what you want from the system. Don't ever turn your back on it and think it "is" anything. Its default state is exactly as you say, a daycare for people to mull about and have quarter life crises while mostly fucking around and being able to sleep in until 11 during the week.

>>20366755
I'm glad other people are posting as a corrective to my pessimism just in case I'm wrong or crazy.

One more way to phrase the "you alone decide" advice that came to me: Write a thesis that you would be proud to have written even if it doesn't get published, or only gets published perfunctorily in some out of the way series that doesn't make a splash. If you don't mind spending 5-10 years on that, and the other opportunity costs and bullshit bureaucracy aspects aren't a concern either, then you will be fine.

Anonymous Sat May 14 00:55:45 2022 No.20366845

>>20366801
Yes I agree with this last point too, basically. What I used to tell my unscholarly friends when they asked about my PhD was that it was a fabricated pleasure that doesn't mean much at all outside of what it means to me - but isn't that true of most endeavours?
I've ended up in an admin-heavy, teaching-light job that allows me to spend 3-4 hours a day reading and writing about Milton. It's not exactly what I had imagined, but it's a pleasant enough way to spend my time, and pays as much as I would earn devoting mind and body to a corporate master without wanting to sell my soul entirely.
Of course all of this is assuming you can muster self-discipline, concentration, commitment to long goals without regular pay-offs, etc. If you are a coomer and can't be trusted alone on a computer for 10 minutes without edging, it might not be a good idea.

Anonymous Sat May 14 01:06:24 2022 No.20366884

>>20366845
"Of course all of this is assuming you can muster self-discipline, concentration, commitment to long goals without regular pay-offs, etc. If you are a coomer and can't be trusted alone on a computer for 10 minutes without edging, it might not be a good idea."

there is something very strange with the university system maybe its just me but one of the reasons I decided to go was while I was working it was very easy to focus in time off and breaks and I was able to read a fairly considerable amount of books over the years in my lunch breaks.
maybe its just me but I've found it really difficult to focus the same way in university, maybe having your free time restricted and regimented like at a shitty job has a fairly positive self disciplining effect that seems lacking somewhat in achedemia

Anonymous Sat May 14 01:10:10 2022 No.20366895

>>20366884
It's even worse because the regimentation has bred and selected for a form of student that thrives within that regimentation but can't do anything else, all they can do is "strategically" do the readings (skim critical ones and ignore the rest without even caring, take meticulous notes to regurgitate what the teacher says), and write solidly mediocre A- papers on addy, as quickly as possible so they can get back to partying

I'm honestly thankful for it, it has taught me that no elite can ever hold onto power for too long because mental incest is inevitably dysgenic

Anonymous Sat May 14 01:14:19 2022 No.20366905

>>20366884
Yes I think this is somewhat true for most people. When you're in a soulless, regimented job, those free hours afford the space in which you assert your own agency - for some of us, in reading, studying, etc.
When your job is, effectively, reading, studying, etc., then it can come to seem a chore (like any job) and you seek agency elsewhere (socialising, gaming, masturbating, whatever).
I think what determines who will succeed in these conditions is the ability to impose the self-discipline to keep working even in those hours (days, weeks) where it has become a chore.
If you can do that, there will be cycles of motivation and demotivation, exhilaration and exhaustion, but you will still achieve relatively highly.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 01:37:12 2022 No.20366944 >>20366895 well said

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 02:43:54 2022 No.20367121 >>20366593 >professors post on /lit/ >and yet this is the absolute state of the board

Anonymous Sat May 14 04:05:57 2022 No.20367342

>>20366792
In ye olde days, philologists and historicists actually did research onto modern languages. This was "research," properly called. Higher criticism was a part of the food chain, but it was always contingent on real research.

Now criticism has apex predator'd the rest of the food chain into extinction, and "research" is just a game of saying the right buzzwords at the right time.

Anonymous Sat May 14 04:55:33 2022 No.20367468

>>20366905
I think its also sort of a culture thing in a shit job its fairly easy to idealize reading and studying because its clearly above what you're doing now and you can imagine that you're a special big brain compared to your peers in a way that totally shatters once you're in university

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 13:36:45 2022 No.20368945 >>20366533 Why are you asking us?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 19:58:25 2022 No.20370378 >>20366539 How? Doesn't Data Science require some serious mathematical foundations plus IT knowledge?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 19:59:47 2022 No.20370383 >>20370378 I was a math major who switched to the humanities; I already had a decent mathematical background, I was only 2 courses away from graduating with 2 majors.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 20:00:27 2022 No.20370386 >>20367121 As shit as this board is its a fucking meeting of the minds compared to every other space dedicated to the discussion of literature I’ve come across

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 20:48:52 2022 No.20370525 >>20366724 >the result has paradoxically been that all the students are now from a very homogeneous coastal elite background Can you use it to network and get in to the coastal ? Or is that not in possible.

Anonymous Sat May 14 22:32:30 2022 No.20370773

>>20366678
>Zoomers are a whole new breed of "checked out," and grad students are mostly highly motivated but passionless female paper-pushers. All students now give off a vibe that their highest ambition in life is to get an office job where you call the boss by his first name and there's a communal gummy bear bowl. There is very very very little feeling of
Holy shit .... This is beyond depressing.

Anonymous Sat May 14 22:47:23 2022 No.20370831

As a recent humanities PhD I can only honestly recommend it to someone who is independently wealthy. If you are a white man you will never get a job. I was told directly by a Princeton prof that white male job applications go straight into the garbage can. He told me if I had a recording of their deliberations and the things the deans tell the professors that I could sue the shit out of the University. But whats the point. It's a semi unspoken dynamic that you probably won't appreciate until you're a few years into your program. There is one way white male phds are salvaging their careers these days and that is by transitioning. So you can trade your penis for a job if you are sufficiently dedicated. Truly a devil's bargain.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 22:48:02 2022 No.20370835 >>20366724 >research skills can you elaborate a bit on this

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 22:55:19 2022 No.20370865 >>20366801 >90% people who shouldn't have been there to be fair this is true of all levels o University nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 14 23:06:08 2022 No.20370895 >>20370865 >to be fair this is true of all levels o University nowadays. Why is this? What was different about University in the past?

Anonymous Sat May 14 23:32:04 2022 No.20370960

>>20370895
Dropped standards all across the board. University was a place for the best and brightest to devote themselves to intellectual pursuits. It was very selective. Now it is expected of almost everyone and caters to almost everyone. Why are there remedial courses in universities?
The above is largely due to the for-profit model. No one thinks Unis should be broke but the focus has switched to increasing profit as much as possible. Best way to do that is to get more students paying more money. Hence the lowered standards of admission and lowered expectations once they are admitted. Wouldn't want to piss off paying customers now, that would be bad for business.

Anonymous Sat May 14 23:57:32 2022 No.20371006

>>20370895
>What was different about University in the past?
I think that over the decades post secondary education in general has become such a racket. There are private for profit colleges and universities popping up everywhere to sucker immigrants and poor-middle class individuals into taking on hefty student loans. The quality of education at these institutions is often substandard. But even at public and Ivy League universities you can see how things have declined over the years. University culture is much more politically correct these days. There is tension in the air and politically correctness permeates nearly everything. There is what I consider to be a war on truth and critical thinking. This is particularly the case in the social sciences and humanities. Go to any introductory sociology or education course to see what I mean. Cancel culture is rampant. In the past universities taught students how to think, these days it's only what to think. Experienced academics are often hesitant to speak their mind for fear of being ridiculed and having their reputation destroyed by the mob. I consider universities these days to be more akin to indoctrination centers. And of course there additional headaches like the cost of textbooks which is criminal. Often there will be new editions required for a class every year or every other year with minor additions. Textbooks often cost $600+ (easily) per semester if you are a full time student. And of course the internet has made things like plagiarism and custom essay writing services much easier whereas in the past students obviously didn't have such means. I went to a university where it was not uncommon to see 18-22 year old students driving luxury sports cars, paid for with their parents money obviously. Aside from having their parents pay for their education plenty of these people also hire outside academic services to write their papers, do their coursework and even in some cases take their exams, it's normally a lot easier if the exam is remote. I knew of a company that specifically catered to wealthy, mainly Chinese immigrants that charged $4000 per course. University is a racket.

Anonymous Sun May 15 00:04:16 2022 No.20371028
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>>20366565
>Is 25 too late to do this? I’m tired of the trades.
What's stopping you from pursuing a master in English lit doing online courses while still being a tradie? Continuing that thought, unless you're something low paying like a framer, why leave the trades to read and write, both things you can do without spending 50-100k?

Anonymous Sun May 15 00:04:27 2022 No.20371029

>>20370960
Universities have always been for-profit. The difference is in the past we didn't have banks and governments funding poor retards, it was only the highest classes who could afford the few good universities that existed. Even in the distant past there were more than a fair share of imbeciles who bought their way into the system. You can go back and read tomes from old philosophers complaining about the exact same phenomenon, the only difference is the problem was relegated to the few universities which existed, so it was not widespread.

>>	dago Sun May 15 00:08:16 2022 No.20371035 >>20366533 Dude don’t bother Degrees are a total meme

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 00:09:02 2022 No.20371038 File: 529 KB, 506x452, venus cupid etc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20371028 trades would be an excellent way to mentally and physically destroy yourself which would provide a solid foundation for a career as a writer.

Anonymous Sun May 15 00:15:08 2022 No.20371051

>>20370895
It was always a fucking racket for rich people and various levels of fake and a scam, but there used to be a 5-10% of people within whatever scam system prevailed at the time who were actually there because they loved studying stuff enough to devote themselves to it

Millennials and zoomers can't suffer or dedicate themselves to anything other than their own selves, also they have been fed lies about being "politically engaged" being what makes you interesting and gives you an identity since they were born, so when they're not mindlessly consuming, they are becoming performative political narcissists

Actually explained well here, go to 9:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk43_rP5EHU#t=9m

Just apply this to academics, or anybody else in any other organization. Nothing exists except as a vehicle to perform, and performing is just a vehicle for narcissistic self-image creation. The essence of it is that nobody is there for something other than themselves and their own childish animal need for validation and self-image crafting.

Nothing has ever been serious for them. The whole society exists to sand down the sharp edges on things, to pad the walls of life so no one ever just makes a mistake and has to learn from it and change direction. People often point to the fact that administrative and human resources staff at universities have grown 300% since the 1970s, while faculty has only grown 1 or 2%, but that is a symptom, not a cause.

>"The Nursery-School Campus: The Corrupting of the Humanities in the U.S."
https://archive.org/details/VampsTrampsNewEssays1994ByCamilleAnnaPaglia/page/n123/mode/2up

Reminder the above article is 30 years old now

Anonymous Sun May 15 00:19:51 2022 No.20371064

>>20371006
>There is tension in the air and politically correctness permeates nearly everything.
It's not just this, it's that it's coupled with a disgusting Coachella atmosphere on campus for the homogenized rich TikTok teenager class. They all retain the mind of a 16 year old into their mid 20s and beyond thanks to the infantilizing campus atmosphere, because the administration wants to keep its cash cows docile and sticking around for as long as possible pumping more money into the university. Undergrad is now a 5-10 year summer camp for theater kids.

Anonymous Sun May 15 00:25:42 2022 No.20371085
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>>20371064
yes, and the focus on identity politics is nauseating. The self professed "radicals" are honestly nothing but woke capitalists bootlicking the corporate state. They have no interest in ever challenging power. Matters of sex, race and identity are the primary focus now, not class. It's such a farce.

Anonymous Sun May 15 10:49:47 2022 No.20372512

>>20371051

You will need to add this to the aberration of Positivism, washing off the metaphysical because it is too "Esoteric".

Look up countries such as Brazil, India, China, etc.

People would want to bomb these countries if their education were broadcasted for the whole world to watch it.

Believe me man, I studied with people who entered university while being 16yo children;
Now, I'm not saying that I was some prodigy (you can look by this bad english) who read the whole oeuvre of the national literature + Shakespeare at 15, because I definitely wasn't, ' Tennage Vanity' caught me too, but I started reading literature again at 18.

They MUTILATE knowledge just to pass on some fucking exam to get their job positions. There is literally no meaning to "studying something" anymore. Why even study if you can learn some language while being a 13 yo to get a job ? Just skipped the whole fucking thing right ?

It is absolutely demonic, satanic way of conducing things. I don't what will happen to third world countries in the future generations, but keep watching if you think EUA is this worst. You've seen nothing, I tell you..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0cb5-q9TA

Just watch this video of the GAOKAO, national exam of China.

People are brainwashed to take exams such as Enem, Gaokao, etc. It is the mutilation of knowledge happening + the surge of TEENAGE VANITY.. fucking absurd..

That guy Adorno with the Industry of Mass Culture was right, only marxist that I've read through and through

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 10:51:09 2022 No.20372517 >>20372512 >Why even study if you can learn some language while being a 13 yo to get a job *programming language

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 11:41:08 2022 No.20372667 bump

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 11:54:34 2022 No.20372726 >>20366533 Write LSAT as fall back when you come to hate academia. Scores are good for 5 years and are filled with people who threw in the towel on their academic career. If you read at a high level you’ll probably do well on it.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 11:55:36 2022 No.20372735 >>20372512 same I agree with the Dialectic of Enlightenment the part on the Culture Industry is spot on

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 12:28:19 2022 No.20372881 bump

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 12:38:42 2022 No.20372946 Don't. Just get a job and write about it

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 12:43:33 2022 No.20372970 >>20372726 >threw in the towel More like refused to be their advisor's slave and suck his dick.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 12:44:29 2022 No.20372975 >>20370386 y!kes

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 12:46:30 2022 No.20372981 >>20367121 did you forget about the part where /pol/ outnumber professors 100 to 1?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 15:01:10 2022 No.20373638 File: 40 KB, 418x468, banshee.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20372946 >Don't. Just get a job and write about it this. why do people think they have to pay $100k so someone can teach them to read?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 15:11:04 2022 No.20373675 >>20372975 >Can't give alternatives. Lol. Lmao even.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 15:16:57 2022 No.20373702 >>20366678 I'm in an engineering phd and its literally like this, although there are a few passionate people here and there

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 16:05:04 2022 No.20373858 >>20366533 If you get a PHD in English you'll be totally useless.

Anonymous Sun May 15 16:10:46 2022 No.20373882

>>20370383
It's fucking bullshit how most of the populace just can't into maths at all; it was far farer back in the old days where maths was on a level of utility and recompense similar to logic, but now it's just fucking bullshit, god playing favourites.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 16:11:47 2022 No.20373884 >>20371028 >that first one Imagine her doing that to your urethra...

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 16:18:34 2022 No.20373908 File: 764 KB, 280x200, 1628044642468.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20366539 I got an associate's degree in Philosophy from my local community college and I also work at a bank now.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 16:18:52 2022 No.20373909 >>20366539 Is that so bad?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 16:54:45 2022 No.20374056 >>20367121 For every professor on this board there are five 19 year olds who just achieved enlightenment after watching three hours of Jordan Peterson on YouTube and want to tell everyone about it

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 17:02:45 2022 No.20374071 >>20374056 more like five 19 year olds who just watched a youtube video on how they should read books x y and z, and they want to ask everybody "This shit good?" about books x y and z before going back to watching more youtube videos

Anonymous Sun May 15 17:10:51 2022 No.20374097

Anyone happen to know if there are any european countries where you can do a master in philosophy with kinda bad grades?
Gonna hopefully graduate spring next year and my grades are currently not that good, 2,9 in the german system, so I'm fucked as far as admissions go in my country.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 17:20:51 2022 No.20374143 >>20374056 > Le Jordan Peterson maymay in 2015+7 This pillhead derelict is barely relevant anymore gramps, not that you'd have any way to know lmoa

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 17:24:10 2022 No.20374151 >>20366533 Write a fucking book dude. You're just putting off the day when you actually have to do some work.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 17:24:54 2022 No.20374155 >>20374143 poltards are still posting like its 2015 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>	Anonymous Sun May 15 18:56:08 2022 No.20374453 bump

Anonymous Sun May 15 22:51:48 2022 No.20375220

>>20374151
Isn't it really difficult to get published? I have a BA in English lit and have thought about writing a book going so far as to put some ideas and details on paper but I really have doubts about getting published. And I wouldn't want to self publish anything to be honest.

Anonymous Mon May 16 01:26:46 2022 No.20375637

>>20366533
I think you should explore life. As in, pick an arbitrary direction and commit yourself to it, engage it with all your creative energies.

I'm a grad student in philosophy. I started it because I was insecure about what to do with my life. Now I really wish I was doing other things.

A PhD is also a massive, life consuming commitment best done in your thirties. It's a waste of youth.

Everyone tries to scare you about it but it's actually not that hard to find a good job if you're an intelligent person. Just try and don't get discouraged by the inevitable lulls. Fortune comes around if you commit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 07:41:41 2022 No.20376490 >>20375637 >I'm a student in Philosophy >finding a job isn't actually that hard You're going to kill yourself before 30, 25 if you're still a virgin.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 09:52:46 2022 No.20376859 >>20376490 What makes you say that?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 12:35:28 2022 No.20377405 >>20376859 >yourself Projection.

Anonymous Mon May 16 12:37:54 2022 No.20377414

>>20366533

I'm an English PhD student, but I wouldn't do it unless you're trying to teach. Almost anything else you'd want to do you can accomplish with an MA or MFA.

I also have an MFA and have published a fuckton. I'm basically just doing it to get free money to work on my creative writing and get another degree while doing it (a lot of tenure-track jobs want you to have the PhD if you're working with MFA students now). I'm also trying to publish more scholarly work and not just creative work.

I'm not worried about myself, but I have peers who are meh teachers, aren't publishing, and don't have much going on. These are the people who should drop out and just get a job at a nonprofit, in marketing, doing content for a tech company....

Unless you don't really care about losing 5-6 years of your life and being an over-educated admin assistant, I would say stay away unless you're *really* confident you can bag the teaching job.

Anonymous Mon May 16 12:43:28 2022 No.20377434

>>20375637

>A PhD is also a massive, life consuming commitment best done in your thirties. It's a waste of youth.

+1 to this. When I was in my 20s I lived in a big city, went drinking all night, going to raves and warehouse parties, etc. Going to art galleries, museums, restaurants, poetry readings, fashion shows, etc. I met so many interesting people and really feel like I lived life to the fullest.

Now I'm boring af and in my 30s and am happy to just live a quiet, cozy life reading books while working on my degree. I have people in my program younger than me though and all I can think about is damn you're really wasting your 20s in some crummy college town with one Chinese restaurant, huh?

Be young and reckless while you can. I'd say even try to graduate undergrad early if you can. Don't go back to grad school until you're about to turn 30. When you hit your 30s it's like "oh shit I need to pick a career pack and have a 401(k)."

Anonymous Mon May 16 15:24:14 2022 No.20378045

>>20377434
>I'd say even try to graduate undergrad early if you can.
I didn't have that luxury unfortunately. But now that I have my BA in English lit I am thinking go for the MA because really it's only a year of work in a nice city that might open some opportunities for me.

>>20377414
I'd be grateful for your advice on getting a novel published, thanks.

Anonymous Mon May 16 15:38:22 2022 No.20378101

>>20378045
>>20378045
>I'd be grateful for your advice on getting a novel published, thanks.

Not the anon you asked, but I've done some contract editing and a bit of ghost writing for other writers. I'm happy to share what I can with you.

I don't know what your expectations are like, but you need to be pretty practical and disenchanted about the publishing part of the process. By all means, write for the romance and the love of the art and all that, but publishing is business. You need to have a complete MS and do your research to find an agent. Do some more research about how best to pitch your MS to said agent. What's the genre niche that you're trying to fill? Find the ride agent for that. You'll send a sample with your pitch, but you'll need to have a full MS ready if they request it from you.

It helps if you can already bring your audience with you (business, remember?). Do you have a following on twitter or youtube? Do you take part in any online communities (other than this hellhole)? You need to make any potential publisher believe that you can monetize these connections.

Beyond this, you have to be ready for cold rejections that come without your MS even being read. There is no romance here, and no room for emotions. That said, if MS1 doesn't work, put it aside and get going on MS2. Then get back in touch with the agents you contacted before and see if they're interested in your new project.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Best of luck, anon. Connections can be really important, which is one of things that can make an MFA valuable. Network and pimp yourself out.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 15:39:57 2022 No.20378107 >>20378101 I meant to add this... say what you will about her, but you can do worse than giving this lindsay ellis video a view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRE55YH8yE

Anonymous Mon May 16 16:42:37 2022 No.20378304

>>20378045

>I'd be grateful for your advice on getting a novel published, thanks.

I don't know if I can distill this in a single internet comment, but I can try. I'm going to start by assuming you're a good writer and that you've worked hard on your book and you have at least 1 first full draft and it's pretty polished and ready to go.

If you want to go the route of traditional publishing (that is, big NYC publishers) you'll need an agent. Most situations regarding Big Five publishers requires an agent to pitch to editors.

The biggest first thing to ask yourself is, "Who are my Comps?" Comps are comparative titles. These are important because it shows that you understand the market. When you query agents (usually by email), you'll lead with a Comp. You want something published in the last 10 years to lead with, because remember you're publishing a book now. But you can cross it with something else older--or even a TV show. If you're pitching it as Hemingway-inspired alone, you're going to look out of touch. You want to catch the agent's attention. "The Old Man and the Sea meets HBO's Euphoria?" You crazy fuck, I'm in.

But you truly need to know which living authors inspire you, and who their agents are. Read their books. Look up those agents. Consider querying to them, but also consider junior agents. Famous agents have famous clients who they spend all their time with. Young agents who are just getting started have a lot of energy to grow their career alongside yours.

There's other aspects of the agent query letter you can research. Tons of posts about them out there.

All in all, you really need to know your genre and where your book fits into the world. If you don't know how to sell it, your agent won't either. Being a writer of fiction (as an artist) is different from being an author, which is a career. You have to have industry smarts. Once you have an agent, they can help advise your career to get the book ready to try to sell to a publisher.

Big Five publishing wants to make money. They want the next Sally Rooney and Madeline Miller, not the next Don Delillo. Lit fic is a harder sell unless it's familiar and has a built-in readership. They want books that will go viral on Booktok. If your book is too challenging or too experimental, it might not catch anyone's eye because they won't know how to market it. If you're not reading contemporary fiction and know the current market, you also might not catch anyone's eye. I'm just saying this because /lit/ seems more obsessed with older books than newer ones.

Eh this comment is getting long I'm going to leave one more. (1/2)

Anonymous Mon May 16 16:43:54 2022 No.20378306

>>20378045
>>20378304

If you try and try and can't get an agent, your novel might not be ready yet. There's a lot of information out there about how to edit a novel, find readers, workshop groups, do an MFA, etc. So I won't go into that.

The other thing to consider is going indie. This includes small presses, university presses, and beyond the Big Five. Most of these you don't need agents for. A lot of them have open reading periods you can submit to directly. Sometimes smaller presses are more generous to fiction that has no market.

And of course, there's always self-publishing, which requires only you.

I won't go into agent query letters or book submission letters because there's a lot of information out there. Hell, there's a lot of information out there about a lot of these things I'm talking about.

At the end of the day writing a book and selling a book are two very different things. You learn quickly once you start going through the gestures of moving outside of your head and into the world.

Good luck! (2/2)

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 16:47:13 2022 No.20378315 >>20366565 If you do it you'll just be 35 and be in the same position you are in now, but worse because you'll be 35 and unemployed.

Anonymous Mon May 16 16:51:41 2022 No.20378338

>>20378101
Thank you for this I appreciated it. Do you have any idea where I can find a list of agents to send my work to or is it just a matter of manually finding various publishing houses and mailing the first chapter or two of my manuscript to them?
>I don't know what your expectations are like
My expectations honestly are not high. I'm a quiet and introverted person and I don't like attention. I don't have any social media presence or a following anywhere and don't take part in any online communities other than /lit/ sometimes. I live in Canada and will probably be moving to a small city in the Maritimes to do the MA in English lit. Ideally I'd like to land a small book deal even if it's something like 10-20k copies. I'm not after fame and stardom at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 16:54:26 2022 No.20378354 >>20378306 >>20378304 Thank you I'll save your comments, much appreciated.

Anonymous Mon May 16 16:58:22 2022 No.20378364

I just got my PhD in literary studies. I'm Scandinavian and worked with English lit, so there are some job opportunities beyond being a barista, thankfully. It's unlikely I would've done the degree if I was American; your system is ridiculous. A PhD in literature should take three years; spending 5-7 on this shit is dumb and paying for it is even more dumb.

I did love my time as a PhD student though. It was challenging, rewarding, and I had lots of freedom to do what I wanted. I'm probably going to miss it a lot. I didn't make a ton of money but that was alright; I had a boring office job before my PhD and although I had cash I could feel my soul getting crushed under the immense weight of the pointlessness of my work. I realize my dissertation is probably also pointless in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't pointless for me as a person.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 17:00:47 2022 No.20378376 >>20366539 Does the soullessness of a bank not bother you?

Anonymous Mon May 16 17:01:15 2022 No.20378380

>>20378338
>>20378354

Anon who just left the two long comments here.

The best place to start is looking at agents who represent your favorite writers. Agents are usually at agencies, who host multiple agents. You might want to query a younger agent at an agency who represents your favorite author.

But agents have all different tastes. Some of them use something called a MSWL (manuscript wishlist) where they publicly post about what they're into and what they look for.

There's a website called QueryTracker that you can use to keep track of your agent queries until you get one. It's free or cheap. Writers will sometimes leave helpful comments about agents.

There's another extraordinarily useful website called PublishersMarketplace where they list actual sales from agents (manuscript wishlists are nice, but are the agents actually selling their clients' books!). PublishersMarketplace is really fucking expensive but I think they have a free trial. Use it and download as much info as you can.

You want to find legit agents and agencies who are actually selling titles. Just like there's a lot of nobody self-published writers, there's a lot of nobody agents. Stay the hell away from D-tier agents. They'll tank your career. Go with someone who knows their shit.

Lastly, follow the instructions on an agent's website to a T. Some what a first chapter. Some want 3 pages. Make sure to follow the rules when you query and give them what they're looking for.

If they want more they'll do a partial query (ask for a few more chapters) or full query (ask for the full book). You'll figure out soon enough if you're moving forward or getting a rejection. 95% of this happens over email. Be gracious, be kind, don't be salty (agents talk to each other), and keep trucking. Once again: good luck!

Anonymous Mon May 16 17:17:49 2022 No.20378439

>>20378380
Thanks a lot man. Out of curiosity in your experience can someone nowadays become a moderately successful published writer without having a large social media presence, giving lots of interviews, etc? I know it's unlikely but on the off chance some agent does like my manuscript and wants to take the next steps and promote it I honestly am a bit put off by the thought of having to be in front of a camera giving interviews or creating a twitter account, etc. I don't want much of that if at all.

Anonymous Mon May 16 17:28:36 2022 No.20378480

>>20378439

Yeah, totally doable. You can be a total hermit as a fiction writer (nonfiction writers on the other hand have more of a pressure to be public presences). It should not make or break whether your agent picks you up as a client or whether a publisher buys your book.

Although, I won't lie, these things can help. But you don't have to use them. Especially if you're not good at them. Or worse, if you're one of those writers who is always beefing with other writers.

That being said, it's good to have a community. People who can support you and who you can support. Whether that's a local writers group, Twitter friends, people who were in your MFA program, or whatever. I'm not huge on social media but I've spent a decade building up and being part of various literary communities both in-person and online. Having a community means you'll have literary friends who will buy your book, hype it up, interview you, review your book, etc if you'd like (and you'd do the same for them).

I think if your book starts to sell well, you'll build a social media audience anyway. As for interviews, it's your call. With Big Five publishing you'll be assigned a publicist and marketing folks, and they'll work with your agent to figure out what are the best route for you to take with your book.

The one thing I will say is making a writer website can help you look professional, even if you don't want to do all that other stuff. Even if you don't have accomplishments yet you can give a short summary of your writing project and say you're looking for an agent.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 17:33:02 2022 No.20378488 >>20378480 That's promising to hear. I would definitely be ok with having a website and joining some kind of community even if it's at a local level. Once again thank you, your insight has been very helpful.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 17:50:03 2022 No.20378550 >>20366541 this is good advice. listen to this anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 17:51:54 2022 No.20378554 >>20367121 you need to realize a lot of this board is just intellectually curious /pol/ runoff

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 17:53:48 2022 No.20378562 >>20370386 there are a few other places but theyre very small and im not telling you about them

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 18:06:20 2022 No.20378593 >>20378562 how could there possibly be literary discourse occurring on your dick

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 18:07:57 2022 No.20378604 >>20366678 Same in bio sciences, I was amazed at the low standards

Anonymous Mon May 16 18:40:31 2022 No.20378699

>>20367121

I'm on here only a few times per year and right now I'm browsing /lit/ during breaks between grading huge stacks of papers. I'm interested in digital humanities and online communities, so, y'know, you lot intrigue me. I also used to be on /b/ when I was a teen in the mid-2000s. 4chan as a whole was a lot better before /pol/, but there was always a lot of shitty nerds raging and wanting to fuck shit up, but back then it was usually just Habbo Hotel.

FWIW, I don't usually participate in discussions because it's not worth my energy. A lot of the discourse is from dipshits who don't know what they're talking about and would be super toxic and double-down if I replied, so it's mostly not worth my energy. I just assume most of the people I could be arguing with are teens who are half my age, which would be a very silly group to argue with. I imagine other professors who end up here are lurkers too.

But in terms of literary/book communities I find /lit/ fascinating, because it plays out 100% like I'd imagine if someone were to pitch out the idea of "4chan having a book board." I feel like an anthropologist when I come here, but I enjoy it. These were my old stomping grounds, after all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 18:41:58 2022 No.20378708 >>20378699 faggot i'm a professor too stop acting like it's a big deal and writing like a queer

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 18:43:39 2022 No.20378719 >>20378708 Let me ruminate and be wistful, anon. It's been a long year.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 18:49:09 2022 No.20378746 >>20378593 kek

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 19:03:40 2022 No.20378803 Is it possible to salvage a mediocre bachelor gpa in any way if I want to at least try getting into academia?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 19:05:55 2022 No.20378810 >>20378803 Use major GPA, have a good explanation/alibi in your statement, take some in-major classes and pad it out?

Anonymous Mon May 16 19:15:16 2022 No.20378853

>>20378810
Not american so I'm pretty limited in regards to which courses I can actually get grades for and I'm also like 90% done already.
So unless I manage to write an amazing bachelor thesis my average will be around B-/C+ ehich is obviously pretty shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 19:23:37 2022 No.20378880 >>20366533 No ! it's a trap.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 19:40:22 2022 No.20378930 >>20378853 can you take an extra year? If not just apply to schools that have lower admission criteria.

Anonymous Mon May 16 20:01:08 2022 No.20379001
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>>20366677
>>20366678
This was what it seemed that grad school was going to he when I was getting my degree. I just know I was born to be a professor but it's just impossible and repugnant at this point. I think I'm going to get a masters and then teach highschool college dual credit lit courses. At least I'll actually have tenure.

Anonymous Mon May 16 20:02:26 2022 No.20379006

>>20378803

It's probably fine. I had a mediocre GPA for my bachelor's degree, but also it wasn't in English.

If I were you, I would start to ask yourself now what you're interested in. Cultivate your interests. Practice metacognition. Know thyself and all that jazz. And harness that for a personal statement + critical writing sample that can make up for meh grades when you apply to grad school. It also helps if you apply to programs where faculty interests overlap with your own.

If you have a mediocre GPA and you come across as one of those "I'm just trying to avoid the real world and continue school forever and don't know what I'm doing" it will hurt you doubly.

Also don't even bring up your GPA in your personal statement. If it comes up in an interview, talk about it then. Your personal statement is to imagine yourself as a scholar in the future, not apologize for your past.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 16 21:21:20 2022 No.20379296 >>20376490 I have two jobs I do at my leisure and have passed through many opportunities, loser

Anonymous Mon May 16 23:53:52 2022 No.20379822

>>20379296
ignore that dude. As someone who is very curious about continuing on to do an MA (but not in phil but probably lit or some other area of humanities) how important is public speaking in your program? I'm not a good public speaker honestly. It's something I am open to working on but I would prefer to avoid it. Is that an issue?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 02:01:01 2022 No.20380108 >>20379822 You should either get good at it through brute force or quit. Seriously. Autistic, super introverted researches only do well in the hard sciences.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 05:07:14 2022 No.20380613 >>20378930 Yeah applying to schools that are less selective is probably my only real option.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 05:28:12 2022 No.20380672 >>20378699 Why are you writing like that? We are not your guinea pigs, fag

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 05:35:40 2022 No.20380688 >>20378719 fug, I just realised what it's like when someone uses the word ruminate. I use it all the fucking time; they must all think im a terrible faggot. wistful is fine though

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 05:38:07 2022 No.20380695 File: 289 KB, 600x591, 1578921620721.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20366533 >going to university for anything non STEM >going to univeristy >english lit >phd look at this doode oh no nonononono

Anonymous Tue May 17 05:55:22 2022 No.20380750
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>>20366677
>>20366678
I was 1 and a half years into a genetics PhD at a 'prestigious' British university.
The hard sciences are the same. Academia is a joke.
My supervisor was a le epic girl boss woman who only cared about publishing papers, whether they were good or not, it didn't matter. She just wanted to get the numbers up because as she always used to say "they are your currency!".
When I brought up the replication crisis and how we should make the effort to write good papers rather than churning out shit she responded with "That's just how things are."

Your fellows are literally pic related. They are are obsessed with twitter. Several times a month I would be chastised for not having any social media - "anon you NEED to be on twitter for le science!!".

Science is fucking dead. Christ knows how bad the arts are these days.

I quit last year and now work remotely as a data scientist. Fuck academia, that was such a waste of time I'll never get back.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 08:43:04 2022 No.20381142 >>20380672 Yes, you are. You are all my retarded little babies, whether you like it or not.

Anonymous Tue May 17 08:48:00 2022 No.20381157
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>>20366533
Everyone else in this thread is a retard. That is a gigantic waste of time. Use that fuckload of time to do something that will generate income or work towards creating a peice of writing that you can publish to gain reputation (as exceedingly unlikely as that is). University will not give you employability, happiness, contentment or improvement in your writing. It's all already there, and you can learn everything you want with a 2c library membership. University is a puer eternis cope.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 08:59:35 2022 No.20381188 >>20380695 Humanities degrees are fine as long as you don't end up paying a fortune for them. Also most english majors are completly incapable of doing the most basic math, so stem isn't exactly an option for them.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:07:29 2022 No.20381218 >>20381188 >Humanities degrees are fine as long as you don't end up paying a fortune for them. Literally impossible to step foot in any university and not pay a fortune for it. >anal cancer is fine as long as you dont need to take a shit

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:07:40 2022 No.20381220 >>20380750 <>hinks philosophy is outdated Nothing wrong with that statement Philosophy students are easily the worst of all the humanities

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:10:21 2022 No.20381231 >>20381218 <being american

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:12:59 2022 No.20381237 >>20380750 To be fair, that is unfortunately "how things are". Professors get evaluated on that shit and not publishing enough in ranked journals can get you fired.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:14:47 2022 No.20381243 >>20381231 Tuition fees exist in the EU as well retard. Even if tuition is free, you pay with your wasted time and loss of earnings

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 09:15:49 2022 No.20381245 >>20381237 All the more reason to avoid it like the plague The reason the replication crisis exists is because these limp dicked professors and women refuse to push back against the academic dogma

Anonymous Tue May 17 09:48:52 2022 No.20381355

>>20381188

This is it. English is noteworthy because it's one of those fields you can get full funding for if you teach. The great thing about English is usually you are instructor of record, meaning you're not TAing for some other jerk. You're the boss of your own classroom.

I'm making a fraction of my salary from when I was working full time, but I get around 25k during a 9 month period. Freelancing in the summer I bring in about 35k per year. The money is meh, but what I have is my time, and I have it on my own clock.

I don't really answer to anyone but myself. I make my own curricula, I teach what I want. I supposedly work "20 hours" per week. I can go see a movie on a Tuesday or shoplift some lunch from Whole Foods and eat it on the beach on a Wednesday afternoon as I want while most people are slaving away at their 9-to-5 jobs.

All the pushback is just telling you how to become a better capitalist and advance in a capitalist system while you are young. Hustle culture is boring. I've written two novels during my PhD already on someone else's dime, and one of them bagged me an agent. The manuscript went to auction and I got a six-figure advance for a two-book deal.

The only thing that really sucks is that I'm in a high-cost area and still renting (I'm not planning to stay here after I graduate so I don't want to buy). Cost of living is really shitty at the moment, and many teaching stipends aren't great. 25k should be the baseline, but unfortunately there are grad students living off 15k. Unfortunately you often have to live in poverty in exchange for the freedom.

Haters can say it will end poorly for me (and it might!) but it's better than doing some shitty data entry job or having a boss.

Anonymous Tue May 17 10:41:23 2022 No.20381473

>>20381243
>Even if tuition is free, you pay with your wasted time and loss of earnings
Lol, look at you moving the goal post like a faggot. I'm Scandinavian, not only is there no tuition but I'm paid a decent salary to do a PhD. So much "wasted time" and "loss of earnings", huh? Retard. Not everyone's system is as bad as the one in Burgerland.

Anonymous Tue May 17 10:43:28 2022 No.20381480

>>20381473
>N-N-NOOO ITS MOVING TO GOAL POSTS
>m-m-my time is worthless because im a massive faggot!!
Go ahead, waste 3-4 years of your life at a university making zero money. Then graduate and land a job that you could have gotten without the degree anyway lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 10:44:41 2022 No.20381485 >>20381480 >making zero money Look up the salary for PhD students in Denmark. I'll wait

Anonymous Tue May 17 10:51:26 2022 No.20381501
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>>20381485
>DKK17,500 per mo
>£1,988 per mo
>this nigga trying to flex on making barely £24k a year
OH NO NO NO NO NO HAHAHAHA
Bro you could make double that as a fucking plumber lmao

Anonymous Tue May 17 10:57:47 2022 No.20381514
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>>20381501
Are you legitimately retarded? Literally the first result on Google is pic related. As a student you start at around 28.000 DKK and end up around 34.000 DKK at the end of your PhD. Where the fuck did you get 17.5k? Christ dude.

34.000 DKK is:
>€4568
>£3800
>$4800

But yeah, sure, go be a plumber. There's also the intellectual challenge and self-realization connected to a PhD, but I guess a smart money-man such as yourself doesn't care, right? Everything must be reduced to money apparently.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 10:59:13 2022 No.20381519 >>20381514 That's gross you stupid fuck, YOU PAY TAXES

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:00:47 2022 No.20381522

>>20381514
>There's also the intellectual challenge and self-realization connected to a PhD
Modern academia is literally nothing like this you pretentious fuck
>but I guess a smart money-man such as yourself doesn't care, right? Everything must be reduced to money apparently.
Yes, in our world it is. Get by without any money, good luck owning anything or starting a family you debt slave.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:05:05 2022 No.20381533

>>20381480

Mmm. That last sentence isn't true. If you want to teach and work with grad students, you need the PhD. If you want to work with undergrad, you need the bachelors. Generally you need one degree 'above' the group you want to work with in academia.

It wasn't always this way, but the market is saturated. Even the degree won't help you alone. You need to have talent either in researching/publishing or teaching. Secondary is having a great track record of service on your CV.

I think a masters is fine to fuck around with even if you're not sure you're going into academia b/c ultimately it's just 2 years of your life (or should be). It does make you a sexier job candidate to have one too in most jobs that cater to people with humanities degrees.

Definitely do not get the PhD if you do not intend to teach though. There's a lot of "alt ac" talk but honestly don't do it unless you really love your area enough to sink half a decade into it.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:06:16 2022 No.20381535 >>20381533 Sorry, meant to say ***"If you want to work with undergrad, you need the masters."

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:06:37 2022 No.20381536

>>20381519
>>20381522
Don't bully him faggots. Reading is inherently a prissy-shit faggot hobby; attempting to pretend that someone pursuing a particular course of career, however seemingly unpecuniary, is dickish.

>>20381514
The world's too shitty a place to get concerned about other randoms' opinions.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:09:21 2022 No.20381547 [DELETED]

>>20381536
I wasted years of my life perusing a PhD for literally nothing (in science) and then you get pretentious retards in these threads telling others to go for it (in the god-damn ARTS btw, not even anything useful) like lambs to the slaughter .
Someone needs to give them a does of reality.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:10:22 2022 No.20381550

>>20381536
I wasted years of my life perusing a PhD for literally nothing (in science) and then you get pretentious retards in these threads telling others to go for it (in the god-damn ARTS btw, not even anything useful) like lambs to the slaughter.
Someone needs to give them a dose of reality.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:10:57 2022 No.20381555 >>20381550 >I failed so nobody else should even try

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:12:43 2022 No.20381561

>>20381555
False equivalency.
I failed at something of use.
You're telling people to peruse something totally USELESS.
Leaving a hard science PhD is not the same as completing a faggot arts PhD.
This is my experience btw >>20380750, academia is a waste of time.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:15:12 2022 No.20381567

>>20381561
I'm not telling anyone to do anything. Take your fucking meds. I'm just saying that 1) I had a good time during my PhD, 2) I easily made enough money to stay happy, 3) it hasn't been a hindrance in terms of jobs for me. I know academia is full of problems, but guess what dude, every fucking single sector and field is full of problems. I'm not 20 years old, I've had plenty of "real jobs", I know what's out there, and a PhD isn't the worst thing to spend your time on.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:15:52 2022 No.20381570

>>20381550

there's plenty of people who have chimed into this thread who are successful and doing just fine in grad school pursuing English. you all are just cherry-picking by ignoring them. there's a lot of cautious warnings in this thread too.

'STEM vs. the humanities' is a Reddit level of retarded discourse. i'm embarrassed for you that you're even trying to bait with that here.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:15:56 2022 No.20381571 >>20381555 >bro I stuck my dick in a wasps nest once and it was a bad idea, dont try it >"ummm just because you failed, doesnt mean I will"

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:17:38 2022 No.20381576 >>20381570 >'STEM vs. the humanities' is a Reddit level of retarded discourse Its literally true though. Pursuing the Arts through a university is a complete waste of time, the majority end up working at The Gap or in food service lel

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:21:06 2022 No.20381590 >>20366533 Be a writer instead. The literary humanities are dead.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:28:53 2022 No.20381610

>>20381576

i have an MFA and no one in my program is working in retail or food service. i think actual truth vs. whatever [citation needed] hur-dur-STEM-superiority cliche you're offering up is that people often get lured into a grad program with an offer of free tuition in exchange for teaching... and then suddenly you've been teaching for X number of years and that becomes your career and you get stuck in academia.

i'd say half the people i went to school with stayed in academia to some degree, whether that means being an career counselor, getting a PhD, adjuncting, or going on the job market. some people i know work in tech now (surprise: an entire side of tech is content and needs competent writers and speakers and not just STEM autists who want to hide in a storage closet surfing 4chan).

i know people with nonprofits jobs, boring office jobs, people who went into publishing, people who went into marketing/publicity. and of course a few people who managed to 'make it' and now live as writers (which is rare). a couple people went into law and work as lawyers now.

i do think creative people have an advantage over traditional lit students who want to like, be a Milton scholar or whatever. i think those people have it a lot harder. but my point still stands that the whole 'flipping burgers' thing is a cliche made up by STEM virgins desperately seeking that one part of life they can feel superior in.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:29:45 2022 No.20381611 Anyone have experience with grad school in glorious nippon? Supposedly their admission standards are pretty lax compared to europe and their master programs are researched focused, rather than just basically being bachelor 2.0 like where I'm from.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:36:42 2022 No.20381631

>>20381610

just a part II to my above comment:

in my experience, people who worked for a few years between their bachelors and grad school are more flexible and know how to survive and get a job outside of academia.

people who were 'scared of the real world' and went straight through are weirdo humanities autists who don't know how to exist outside of school and struggle more. but i also feel like those are generally the wealthier ones who won't be dipping frozen fries in hot oil anyway because they have mommy and daddy's bank account.

if anyone is thinking about grad school after you finish undergrad i beg of you to just move to a big city and work some shitty entry-level job for a few years. it will give you character and make grad school that much more sweeter one you truly have a taste of the salaried capitalist hellscape.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 11:38:52 2022 No.20381636 >>20381610 >>20381631 Would you like fries with that sir?

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:42:12 2022 No.20381647

>>20381636

No, anon, I'm watching my figure. If you want to get out of the fast food industry though might I recommend a career in the humanities? If you get a degree, it may help you get out of that dead-end McDongles job so you don't have to serve people like me McRibs anymore.

Anonymous Tue May 17 11:44:10 2022 No.20381653

>>20381550
>bitter man wasted life doing something he hates (many such STEM cases)
>cannot fathom doing anything if it is not """useful"""
>dis nigga didn't even start with the greeks
>insists everyone else will be as bitter as him
Read Aristotle and save your soul.

Anonymous Tue May 17 13:35:22 2022 No.20382050

>>20366533
Absolutely fucking not. I got an MA from an ivy in philosophy it is a waste of time. The humanities are 110% ideological waste garbage and there are no job prospects.
Going to humanities grad school was the single worst decision of my entire fucking life DO NOT DO IT.

Anonymous Tue May 17 13:39:58 2022 No.20382067

>>20366678
I went to a talk at my undergrad from a professor at Yale in religious studies. I am not joking, 70 percent of her "research" was images of twitter quotes about her subject. Most academics are on twitter so much they spend 2-3x time on twitter than they do in the stacks. 100% of their research is hot takes from other PhDs on twitter.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 13:40:34 2022 No.20382071 Is the idea of doing what you like really so foreign to some people? What is the point of studying something you hate to then get a job you also dislike?

Anonymous Tue May 17 13:48:10 2022 No.20382097

>>20381631
>if anyone is thinking about grad school after you finish undergrad i beg of you to just move to a big city and work some shitty entry-level job for a few years. it will give you character and make grad school that much more sweeter one you truly have a taste of the salaried capitalist hellscape.
what about getting a remote freelance job (for at least a few years) and traveling the world while doing it?
I just finished an undergrad humanities degree and this is my current plan, but it's quite hard to reconcile with my parents' career-oriented assumptions (about the academic world they've never taken part in) that anything not fitting entirely into its trajectory would be an unproductive waste of time and get me nowhere... I don't want to sound too childish or reliant on my parents, but at 21, their expectations are a strong driving force behind my decisions and - as is the case for most of us - not always easy to accommodate

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 14:11:47 2022 No.20382166 >>20381631 My plan was doing a masters in some foreign country so that i am forced to be independent basically That's also work right? To at least kinda getmout of that bubble

Anonymous Tue May 17 14:17:00 2022 No.20382185

>>20382071
>Is the idea of doing what you like really so foreign to some people?
There's nothing wrong with that, people are challenging the idea of spending time.money on COLLEGE courses for nonsense degrees. If you want to study literature, or arts, or music, why waste money on college? Study in your own time.
>What is the point of studying something you hate to then get a job you also dislike?
Nobody is saying that. What they are saying is, if you are going to sink thousands of dollars on college it better be on something worthwhile where you will get a return on your investment, i.e science/engineering

There's a lot of humanities cope in this thread.

Anonymous Tue May 17 14:21:50 2022 No.20382204

>>20382097
>>20382166

that's fine. do you. enjoy your youth while you have it. i know a lot of people who taught in asia for a year. i think you'd get a lot of personal growth from that too.

just speaking from personal experience being in a space without a safety net whipped me the fuck into shape. i graduated around the original recession and everything was fucked. if i didn't work, i couldn't eat and couldn't pay my rent. i grew up fast. i learned how to navigate corporate culture, create a resume and cover letter, navigate toxic personalities, be a working adult. you learn how to manage people and develop your social skills. plus you'll be too busy to be on the internet so it will unlearn some autistry.

i'm in a PhD program and some of the masters students who went straight through are legit retarded. they roll their eyes at professors and sigh dramatically in class and have zero social skills. i'm like no one is ever going to write you a recommendation letter or hook you up to opportunities, lol. and good luck getting a teaching job after graduation with zero charisma or experience outside of school.

even in academia, you have to know how to play the game, and getting a grown-up job outside of school for a few years teaches you that quickly.

Anonymous Tue May 17 14:28:51 2022 No.20382239

>>20382204
You describe me surprisingly well. It's almost uncanny. I did my MA and then worked for some years. I did teaching and a corporate gig, and then I taught in Asia for a year. I went back home, got into a PhD programme, and recently graduated. I recognize a lot of what you mention, especially with regards to people without any perspective or experience.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 14:48:07 2022 No.20382320 >>20382067 Sounds like a nice gig, if you can get it.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 14:58:05 2022 No.20382355 >>20380108 Being bad at public speaking does not mean someone has autism public speaking is often listed as one of people’s top fears alongside death. God I hate this board.

Anonymous Tue May 17 15:02:26 2022 No.20382376
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>>20382355

fear of public speaking is something that can be overcome and has nothing to do with autism. you grow numb to it over time. i legit have the world's worst anxiety (although i'm mostly (?) neurotypical). i should be munching benzos for breakfast, lunch, and dinner to function. but i teach, and teaching never makes me nervous. it's really fucking weird at first to have dozens of eyes watching you at the front of a classroom, but you grow accustom to it and overcome it. of all the things that make me nervous, teaching is not one of them.

if you want to overcome public speaking fears, i recommend trying to find an open mic near you and reading a poem or flash fiction piece. doesn't even have to be one you wrote. it's good practice for public speaking, and related to the humanities if you end up teaching english or literature or writing, so you'll learn how to read writing out loud.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 15:04:24 2022 No.20382384 >>20382376 thanks man

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 15:11:08 2022 No.20382406 >>20382204 Yeah ending up like someone who has contempt for the lecturers is something I really want to avoid just seems immature to think you're smarter than everyone else

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 15:33:37 2022 No.20382487 >>20378699 Good day, Professor Anon. I hope to meet someone based like you.

Anonymous Tue May 17 15:45:17 2022 No.20382538

>>20382185
>he didn't buy bitcoin in 2013 but has to care about "return on investment", turning himself into a commodity like a literal slave
This is the literature and philosophy board, and literature and philosophy are for aristocrats of the leisure class. If you are not of the leisure class, why are you here?

Anonymous Tue May 17 16:09:55 2022 No.20382640
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>>20381473
Don't bother arguing with a burger when you see them spout about time=money. They have sold their souls to their Jewish gods and can't literally think when not in terms of money.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 16:13:16 2022 No.20382649 >>20382640 hope you like eating ramen for the rest of your life

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 16:39:23 2022 No.20382763 File: 1.11 MB, 900x1167, 1650409707615.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20381571 >University = nest of wasps False equivalency

Anonymous Tue May 17 16:48:26 2022 No.20382794

>>20366750
>daycare for 18 year olds
That's been my experience too. I'm just now finishing my second undergrad year as a mature student. I'm 27 y/o doing philosophy and history. I didn't grow up reading or having any interest in this stuff, I read my first philosophy book at 23. I worked since I left school. At 25 I decided to go to uni. I had no idea how bad it was going to be. I remember buying stuff like Rousseau and Hobbes thinking it would be a prerequisite for understanding the course material. In hindsight I don't know why I expected such a high standard. I definitely hold myself to a high standard.

The whole thing is a joke. There is zero expectations on the average student. The lecturers treat everyone like they're 10 years old. This was a huge shock for me especially. And nobody in my course seems to have the slightest interest in anything beyond what they need to get a good grade. That's the lecturers attitude too. In my philosophy essays I could write about a dog sucking its own dick for 6 pages and still get at least a B.

Nevermind how fucking pozzed it is. It's something you hear about but you don't really believe it until you see it for yourself. So far I have had 2 male lecturers who were outspoken Marxists, one of them aggressively so who seemed to mark down my grades because I attacked Marxist positions at every opportunity in my essays. Also I am sick and tired of female lecturers who assign readings based exclusively on the fact that the author was a woman. This year I was forced to take a course from a female lecturer on the moral philosophies of Hannah Arendt and Edith Stein. I seriously do not give a fuck about either of these two women. Are they really so important that I have to take an entire module on them when we have BARELY studied Descartes, Hume, or Kant? We haven't touched any other prominent philosophers besides the Greeks. There hasn't even been anything on Nietzsche, who I am not a fan of either, but at least he is more relevant.

And it's not like I'm learning anything in this course anyway. Everything is so surface level. I have grown so disillusioned with it that this semester I attended barely any of the lectures. But I still do all the assignments and exams and do very well. It's because the course is aimed at literal retards.

This turned into an aimless rant at the end but yeah just venting my frustration with this shit. I'm still going to finish it because I paid for it and it will be easier to get a job with the degree than without it. Most employers won't even look your way unless you have some piece of shit degree.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 17:03:20 2022 No.20382853 >>20382794 Students pretty much never do the required reading unless absolutely necessary, like you sqid degrees are necessary for a lot of jobs even though they shouldn't so you end up with loads of people not particulary interested in their degree.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 17:04:20 2022 No.20382857 File: 32 KB, 792x410, 1652821460559.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20382794

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 20:16:56 2022 No.20383565 >>20382857 >People on a literature forum to lazy to read a blog post. Kys.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 17 21:56:31 2022 No.20383908 >>20383565 sorry no one is going to read your novella, anon

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 00:27:36 2022 No.20384370 >>20378699 >it plays out 100% like I'd imagine if someone were to pitch out the idea of "4chan having a book board." wow who could have seen that coming you gay retard

Anonymous Wed May 18 01:42:18 2022 No.20384534

>>20384370
some boards go against type like /tg/ is still fairly soft left and LGBT existing at all is sorta weird if you're entire understanding of 4chan is post 2016 (which was 6 years ago and is almost certainly close to 90% of users at this point) I do think lots of boards have lost alot of identity and not just from 2016 itself again /tg/ lost alot when they banned quests and has sorta semi devolved into generals

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 01:44:38 2022 No.20384540 Gay thread Knowing nothing about me should I study something in agricultural science or some variety of engineering?

Anonymous Wed May 18 01:56:29 2022 No.20384568
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>>20366845
Given you seem to have researched Milton in great detail, what have you found out that wouldn't be obvious to someone who just reads paradise lost, for example. How has it changed your view of him and other things? Tell us about the fruits of your labour anon.

Anonymous Wed May 18 01:58:41 2022 No.20384572

>>20366533
>I'm leaning towards doing an MA in English lit, possibly a PhD afterwards.
I am actually graduating this semester with my MA in literature, and while it was a great experience personally and I really value my time studying, career options are pretty limited unless you go for the doctorate. My options at the moment are:
-get paid total dogshit and have zero career stability as an adjuct
-get stuck as a substitute/lecturer (not rewarding or practical)
-go through another several years of schooling to get a teaching credential
-or just continue in non-academic work, which is fine, but I could have done that with my BA. I may perhaps make slightly more money at least (perhaps, slightly). I'll probably go this route just for stability's sake.
This is all to say that if you want to go for an English MA for any reason other than personal development/interest, just apply to a doctoral program straightaway if you can. I would love to go for a doctorate but I really can't afford to be semi-unemployed for 2-4 more years.

Anonymous Wed May 18 02:24:24 2022 No.20384640

>>20382406
>just seems immature to think you're smarter than everyone else
I mean sometimes the professor is wrong though. It's immature to roll your eyes or be disrespectful, but I've had really stupid professors before.
There's a fine line to tow between being the ass sucker v.s being that one student who always wants to fight the professor. Try to find the golden mean.

Anonymous Wed May 18 02:25:10 2022 No.20384644

I'm planning on doing a masters and PHD in English lit as well. I was thinking of doing it in the continent somehwere like Austria though because
>Free
>PHD also free
If I did it in a non-English speaking country I would definitely have that held against me if I wanted to lecture at home in Ireland or in the UK wouldn't it? I hope not but anyway

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 02:31:55 2022 No.20384659 >>20366533 Wow... this board really is full of soulless careerists.

Anonymous Wed May 18 02:39:04 2022 No.20384670

>>20384659
Neo liberal subjectivity has shaped us all, 2008 was the defining ethos of childhood for alot of us and its hard to break out of that headspace especially when the world becomes more and more financialized and opportunities seem to be shrinking

Anonymous Wed May 18 02:43:45 2022 No.20384677

>>20379006
>you come across as one of those "I'm just trying to avoid the real world and continue school forever and don't know what I'm doing" it will hurt you doubly.
Lmao my brother is one of those. Barely got into an MA program & it was only because of a rec letter from a family friend.
I don't know how he doesn't die from the embarrassment.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 02:53:46 2022 No.20384701 >>20384670 Nothing wrong with wanting money and security I suppose. I want that too. Just personally can't imagine spending this much energy on all this kind of stuff.

Anonymous Wed May 18 03:50:33 2022 No.20384799
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>>20382538
>doooode money doesnt matter man
>owning stuff is like totally something old people did maan
Listen up you commie cunt, you live in a capitalist society. You need money whether you like it or not faggot.
If you are the 'leisure' class living on daddys money, then you're even more retarded because you could travel the world on daddies dime, but instead you decide to go to a university for 4 years.
>assumes a return on investment is monetary
Self improvement returns are also included. You spend 4 years of your life at a university full of retards, girl boss women and insufferable midwits so that you can read of mice and men and sink thousands on a rental city centre apartment when you could have taken a part time job in your home town and studied whatever you liked for free.

Anonymous Wed May 18 04:31:04 2022 No.20384873

Writing is the only thing that I’ve been consistently told in my life that I’m exemplary at. I knew that there was basically no viable job opportunities if I pursued humanities so I tried to strike a balance and went for communications. Horrible mistake so I switched to business. Everything people say about English and humanities being useless is true. Not only will you not get any good jobs from it, but the education itself is horrendous at the moment. Zoomers are massive pussies who constantly whine about mental health issues and “trauma” which leads to professors being lenient, pushing back due dates and generally dumbing down their curriculum.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 04:37:57 2022 No.20384890 >>20384799 I'm going to go do my MA in English lit and then law school afterwards. I hate communists. Btw invest in PLTR 5000-6000 shares right now you will be a millionaire by 2030. Fuck America and fuck neoliberals.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 05:02:47 2022 No.20384934 >>20384890 Hmmm, shorted big data company - Ill check it out thanks for the tip.

Anonymous Wed May 18 07:16:00 2022 No.20385247

>>20384534

Maybe I was naive, but 4chan was pretty liberal-leaning when it first started. People would still say all the "offensive" shit they say now, but it felt more like ironically using shock value while maintaining liberal ideology. E.g.: the difference between thinking you're a good liberal who calls people niggers b/c 'hipster racism' vs. actually believing in white supremacist values. Coming back here is always wild because it's incredible how easily do many of you chuds were retardpilled on /pol/. Shit was inevitable but it doesn't mean it's not sad to see.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 07:17:41 2022 No.20385253 >>20384572 Don't adjunct. It pretty much puts a mark on your head of all you think you're worth. Unless you publish a super-star book, it will be hard to escape the adjunct loop after you start doing it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 13:16:08 2022 No.20386426 >>20384677 Is not being accepted into MA programs even possible in America? It's basically you donating money to the university.

Anonymous Wed May 18 13:34:37 2022 No.20386472

>>20386426

I have a masters and am working on my PhD and both programs are fully-funded because they have TAships. No donating money, only labor. Free tuition + free healthcare + stipend = competition. Honestly the free healthcare is reason enough to go back to school because Burgerland's healthcare system is so retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 19:13:53 2022 No.20387797 >want to go back to school >have to get vaxxed

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 19:15:07 2022 No.20387803 >>20385247 You are a dumb nigger, unironically.

Anonymous Wed May 18 19:29:16 2022 No.20387853
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What a depressing thread. I was pressured into doing English Lit. I always wanted to do law, I still think about it but I go to a shitty university (University of East Anglia) and you guys convinced me that not to bother doing law unless you go to a top 10 uni. Right now I'm thinking I do English and hopefully get a first and maybe that will allow me to study law at somewhere like Oxford. Is that realistic or should I just continue drafting my suicide note?

Being an author would be the dream but that's just way too unrealistic.

Anonymous Wed May 18 20:36:28 2022 No.20388107

>>20385247
I think its more that the pre trump era was generally more liberal. Bush presidency and all that then 2008 anti establishmentism took sort of left wing shape, trump ofc flipped that round with his populist rhetoric but I think its basically the same people its just culture has changed

Anonymous Wed May 18 20:40:31 2022 No.20388116

>>20387853
yea UEA is midwit central probably going to fall even more in league tables next few years. if you want to be a bigshot lawyer then you need to go to a top but you can get a decent middle class career and living with a law degree from anywhere and you need to get yourself a training contract afterwards anyway normally

Anonymous Wed May 18 21:04:48 2022 No.20388164

>>20388107

maybe it's because i was young during the Dubya era but i can't honestly imagine giving a shit about trans people or black people or other people at all. like calling people niggerfag retards on the internet is one thing (because you all are niggerfag retards), but *actually* being big mad over these things IRL just doesn't compute for me.

i'm grateful i grew up without a bunch of nazi retards who don't read books telling me what to think. never thought i would see retarded young people repeating retarded Tea Party Republican boomer talk from 2009 over 10 years later, yet here we are.

Anonymous Wed May 18 21:31:02 2022 No.20388255
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>>20388116
listen bro I didn't go there by choice. I missed a grade so I retook my a level but then corona hit and exams were cancelled and resit students were shafted hard by not given new grades. So I was stuck in limbo and late to clearing and a English Lit course at UEA was the best thing left. I'm unironcally thinking about an heroing in a couple weeks.
>you need to get yourself a training contract afterwards anyway normally
I was a real go getter back in high school before I tripped and fell on my face to never get up again and already secured a training contract by doing a summer job at a law firm and "wowing" the boss with my "aptitude and attitude". Why can't things just work out they way they should

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 21:39:01 2022 No.20388281 >>20387853 If you were persuaded by fucking /lit/ to not pursue a law degree, then you were probably too stupid to get one anyway. Only a fucking retard would listen to this place’s advice.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 21:43:59 2022 No.20388295 >>20388281 maybe read this and stop projecting >>20388255 I wasn't pressured into lit I was pressured into not spending another year idling by my parents and the only Law course avaliable at the time was at the University of Essex or worse

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 21:55:20 2022 No.20388328 >>20374155 >muh /pol/ boogeyman You're just as bad as the fags you're whining about

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 22:02:33 2022 No.20388338 Grad degrees are the biggest waste of time and money

Anonymous Wed May 18 23:19:40 2022 No.20388563

>>20378699
I particularly like how each board acquires its own personality, and how they are similar and yet different in many ways. The one area of overlap is the pursuit of elitism in each area, whether is be fast food on /ck/, cars in /o/, music on /mu/, or /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 23:23:52 2022 No.20388570 >>20370773 Is there a scenario where you don't call your boss by his first name?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 23:26:22 2022 No.20388576 >>20366533 I dont know, Im in dental school and got my BA and masters in biology / biomedical science always kinda wished I majored in english or philosophy like I wanted to as a freshman

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 23:27:31 2022 No.20388578 >>20371029 >>20370960 The real problem is student loans. We now have car loans that are nearly 10 years long on average, which is directly linked to all time high car prices. If you give people enough rope to hang themselves, they will

>>	Anonymous Wed May 18 23:30:46 2022 No.20388583 >>20371028 I couldn't stand classes. I don't understand how being forced to read and white things on someone else's schedule could enhance ones love of a subject

Anonymous Wed May 18 23:36:20 2022 No.20388606

Nah, out of all board's you'd be surprised to hear you should get a trade if you think you're useless. I love to write and working my trade gives me plenty of time to think through stories in my head. The best part is the absolutely diverse amount of swearing I hear on a daily basis is great for character development.

Anonymous Thu May 19 00:09:28 2022 No.20388718

The problem is I should be able to get a high paying job straight out of highschool but I can’t.
Academia should be for those that truly care about higher learning but I’m forced to put up with shit I don’t care about for years so I can wave around a paper that says I’m or qualified.
Fuck this inefficient society that forces you to pay out the ass for basic shit

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 01:37:14 2022 No.20388991 >>20381355 You made over 100 grand on a book deal?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 06:18:59 2022 No.20389629 >>20388991 Yes and my dad owns microsoft and he said hes going to ban you off xbox live

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 06:31:32 2022 No.20389655 >>20370378 You are using a computer. You can do excel and then learn SQL/SAP

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 06:37:23 2022 No.20389662 >>20384799 bro you just posted cringe

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 06:51:38 2022 No.20389692 >>20366533 At least do French or German literature you total idiot. You can get a job as a translator as the plan B

Anonymous Thu May 19 13:19:16 2022 No.20390821

>>20385247
Buddy, the only time I've ever heard someone say chud unironically was a vegan faggot (unsarcastically) drug addict who self censored his cursing. He would say "excuse my language but that's bullsh*strange muffled noise to hide the I*t.

You're a faggot.

Anonymous Thu May 19 13:33:53 2022 No.20390889

>>20388164
I understand your frustration but still think you're a faggot for coming onto the one right wing echochamber on the internet and bitching about it as if every single other form of media isn't an equally retarded left wing echochamber. if 4chan's racism and shit bothers you, you just need to navigate to literally any other website until the variety toxicity here is a relative breath of fresh air again. at least we don't have content algorithms and likes/updoots.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 13:34:53 2022 No.20390892 *variety of toxicity

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 14:35:19 2022 No.20391146 >>20388583 >being forced to read and white things N

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 14:40:37 2022 No.20391169 >>20391146 I was shit posting at 3am ok

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 14:46:56 2022 No.20391197 >>20388328 hi /pol/. i disagree!

Anonymous Thu May 19 15:03:27 2022 No.20391277

>>20389692
Is translation ever even remotely worth it as a fulltime job?
Seems like unless you know chinese+german+english+whatever the fuck else fluently you're fucked and will have to compete with indians willing to translate entire novels for 5 bucks.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 18:56:11 2022 No.20392318 >>20391277 Not at all honestly. Also it will probably be taken over by AI in the future.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 19 22:02:02 2022 No.20393063 >>20390889 I think what he's saying is that until 2016 this site wasnt really a right wing echochamber

Anonymous Thu May 19 22:30:02 2022 No.20393182

>>20393063
In that case I still understand his frustration but still think he's a faggot for complaining about 4chan being radicalized as though it happened in a vacuum. Everything has been politically weaponized and he thinks it's "incredible" that so many "chuds" took the "retardpill" as though 4chan should still be full of apolitical liberals in a world that doesn't exist anymore. I also think /pol/ is full of annoying anti-intellectual retards and the quality of /lit/ has vastly declined but blaming it on the /pol/ bogeyman instead of increasingly radicalized and anti-intellectual western culture is dumb. "BELIEVE IN SCIENCE" is just as stupid and bankrupt a position as "(((SCIENCE))) IS FAKE AND GAY", but I think it's unironically bluepilled to think the former is a reaction to the latter and not vice versa.

>>	barbelo Thu May 19 22:38:02 2022 No.20393221 >>20366539 I'm a Lit student. Currently writing a monograph. I'll go into Computer Sciences next and hopefully earn an MA.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 20 00:17:18 2022 No.20393583 >>20366533 Stupidest idea I’ve ever heard, enjoy being poor.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 20 02:52:06 2022 No.20393933 >>20366565 >too late no such thing. Life is your oyster

>>	Anonymous Fri May 20 07:33:38 2022 No.20394483 >>20393933 Delusional

>>	Anonymous Fri May 20 08:54:25 2022 No.20394760 >>20394483 25 is not too late to start grad school at all.

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/lit/ - Literature