Indoaryan lit thread

[Anonymous No.20346870]

I started reading Mahabharata some days ago and I am really excited. I am Spanish, so I am just reading a shorted version (no full translation avaiable in my language). Despite that, I am really enjoying It.

It is like rediscovering the Illiad but longer and deeper. I don't know, which is the consideration of Indian classics in /lit/? I am just willing to share my enthusiasm with you.

[Anonymous No.20346961]

>>20346870
The Mahabharata and Ramayana receive an excessive amount of attention in all discussions about Indian literature, despite being pretty atypical works
This is understandable since they are very influential and furnish many subjects for latter writers, but reading only them will give you a false idea of Indian literature as exhibited in pic related
Reading them in abridged form is probably prudent, they are extremely long
In my opinion, the best works of Indian literature belong to later periods, Bhavabhuti excels in drama, Bharavi and Magha in epic poetry, and Kalidasa is supreme in everything
He is probably the best author to start with, I can go into more detail if you are interested

[Anonymous No.20346976]

>>20346961
fuck posted wrong pic, this is what I meant
The poster here criticizes Indian works for using formulaic and conventional expressions, while in reality latter works feature some of the most inventive and far-fetched similes in any literature

[Anonymous No.20347154]

>>20346976
What is he talking about?

[bodhi No.20347179]

>>20346870
yes it is pretty amazing. Have you seen the movie? If not watch it, it is really good as well

[Anonymous No.20347209]

>>20347154
"these fuckers" meaning white people, he is arguing their literature is superior

[Anonymous No.20347259]

>>20346976
>>20347209
He's just an arrogant fuckhead. It's fine if he prefers Western literature, but the way he acts like it's an absolute fact is very Jewish in mentality.
For example, I prefer Chinese poetry over Western "poetry", which I personally consider largely garbage. However, I won't act like my preferences are absolute fact.

[Anonymous No.20347267]

>>20347259
curious, why do you prefer Chinese poetry? and who do you like? Li Po and Tu Fu?

[Anonymous No.20347288]

>>20347267
I like Wang Wei, Shiwu, Han Shan, and a few others. I like the sense of "uninhabited space" in Chinese poetry. There is a sense of space that goes beyond (whilst while including) humanity, an "all-encompassing place" in other words. The way the metaphors and similes are used is more organic, and many of them can tie into Buddhist or Daoist philosophy in a more "profound and elegant manner" than Western classical poetry's obsession with endless references to the Greeks, Jewish myths, and so on. It gets tiring when I'm reading about a simple idyllic scene or object, and then there's a random reference to Jewish or Greek mythos. It personally bothers me.
The closest Western poet to the Chinese style I've found is Tom Hennen, who is a Midwestern American. He was influenced by "Deep Image movement". I recommend his book Darkness Sticks to Everything. Note, the title makes it sound pessimistic, but it really isn't.
It's hard to describe poetry in terse language, especially personal preferences.

[Anonymous No.20347698]

>>20347209
If you think the group “white people” was a thing before the 20th century, let alone in ancient times, you are uneducated

[Anonymous No.20347757]

>>20347288
This is a good and intriguing perspective. What other naturalistic Westerners do you enjoy? I had similar feelings about Keats, who is very involved with the idyllic world, but is also very stuffily involved with dense references to Greece. I don't think that's bad, but it does interfere with the liminality of such poetry, as it fixates on a very specific set of cultural associations.

[Anonymous No.20348332]

>>20347698
nice try redd1t

whites = WHG + EEF + Steppe

[Anonymous No.20348341]

>>20347288

[Anonymous No.20348357]

>>20348341
I'm not a leftist, faggot.

[Anonymous No.20348362]

>>20347698
According to the Iliad the Greeks had red and blonde hair.

[Anonymous No.20348367]

>>20347698
idiot. Aryans are wypipo

[Anonymous No.20348369]

>>20348362
We have plenty of ancient Greek genetics at this point, they were largely WHG+EEF in the Minoan period, WGH+EEF+steppe in the Mycenean and classical and then received more steppe mixture in the 6/7th centuries.

they cluster with the rest of europe.

>modern greeks have more steppe than their ancient cousins
sorry varg :/

>minoans and myceanans had no levantine, natufian or otherwise MENA admixture
sorry taleb :/

[Anonymous No.20348373]

>>20348369
You're arguing with low IQ altright Amerimutt trash. He spams the same shit in many other threads.

[Anonymous No.20348385]

>>20348369
What about the different castes? Presumably the lower castes/slaves were different genetically from the elite rulers who conquered them originally.

[Anonymous No.20348388]

>>20348362
>>20348367
OY VEY WE ARE ALL ONE RACE GOY THE HUMAN RACE EXCEPT JEWS ARE CHOSEN BY GOD

[Anonymous No.20348394]

>>20348385
this. Greek is an IE language imposed by a conqueror/settler culture. can't compare randos to Alexander

[Anonymous No.20348416]

>>20348394
Read the physical descriptions of the Roman emperors, they are very white except near the end I believe. Far whiter than the present day population.

[Anonymous No.20348442]

>>20348394
>>20348385
we have samples from "royal"/high status tombs. the profiles are the same as the low-status graves. there is an even more recent study that shows the same. i'll have to find the link. no difference in Steppe % vs Neolithic % in low or high status burials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/

>>20348416
Not supported by genetic evidence. Iron age Italians and "republic" era Romans were roughly similar to modern Italians in terms of ancestry. During the Imperial era there was a significant influx of "eastern" type admixture that looks Greek. There was then an influx of northern admixture in the early medieval period that looks south German.

Iron age Italians, Etruscans and Republic era Romans were all roughly similar and were mostly R1b U152. The Imperial era influx seems to have been a transitory event that disappeared after the Empire fell. Roman cities were always population sinks that required constant immigration to keep the population levels up so it is unsurprising these "eastern" types died off.

Modern southern Italians and Greeks plot nearest to the Imperial Romans. Central/Northern Italians cluster nearest to Iron Age Italians, Etruscans and Republic era Romans.

R1b U152 was heavily present in most, if not all, Roman populations we have samples of.

[Anonymous No.20348457]

>>20348442
This PCA sums up that rough summary i typed out

[Anonymous No.20348477]

>>20348416
There was a Syrian emperor by 218. But it doesn't matter what stock the Romans themselves were. Rome itself was entirely of immigrant, alien stock by the 200s. The old Roman and senatorial families grew as degenerate as our own families today, they barely had children, didn't want to marry, practiced abortion, and largely died out, and were quickly replaced by Semites and other Eastern immigrants who had higher birth rates. The poets of this time all wail and cry for the fate of the Roman stock and inveigh against a Rome of foreigners.

[Anonymous No.20348503]

>>20348442
You dumb nigger, at least half of the emperors who we have descriptions of had red or brown hair and blue, grey or green eyes. Northern Italians are white, so whether you admit it or not you've shown how they became muttified since then.

[Anonymous No.20348504]

>>20348477
Yes, as societies decline they become more brown.

[Anonymous No.20348508]

>>20348503
i think you completely misunderstood that post.

>muh hair color
are you 13?

[Anonymous No.20348511]

>>20348508
He's a piece of shit and has been spamming the same alt-right shit for years. He's derailed so many topics with spastic Nordicist bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20348527]

>>20348477
Yep. Thankfully the Eastern "new romans" seem to have died out and Italy shifted back towards the rest of Europe. many modern Italians are R1b U152. it seems the countryside was still ethnic old stock Latin even as foreign blood flooded into the cities. The true Roman gentlemen class had retired to the country villas.

[Anonymous No.20348529]

>>20348442
I've seen at least one study that suggested otherwise. I don't see anything in that link saying anything about caste but I only skimmed it on my phone. There are countless descriptions of the legendary Kings, gods, demigods etc. as having golden hair and blue or gray eyes.

[Anonymous No.20348531]

>>20348511
>everyone saying the ancient greeks were white is a "nordicist" and the same person
You have schizophrenia.

[Anonymous No.20348532]

>>20348529
link to such study?

>caste
No evidence of that in these cultures

>mythology
Interesting stories but not real science

[Anonymous No.20348534]

>>20348527
I've seen Italian cuties with red hair. Also in some of the pictures of medieval aristocrats they appear to have red hair as well. Know anything about that?

[Anonymous No.20348535]

>>20348531
I can tell it's the same person based on syntax.
Ancient Greeks didn't have high steppe admixture.

[Anonymous No.20348539]

>>20348534
Ok? Not sure your point. Ancedote is not evidence.

There are red haired Italians, what point are you trying to make?

Like the rest of Europe they are WHG+EEF+Steppe. Those groups had a wide variety of eye and hair colors

[Anonymous No.20348542]

>>20348539
He's basically a Jew that thinks having light eyes and hair makes you somehow special and chosen.

[Anonymous No.20348550]

>>20348532
Are you saying that the ancient Greeks didn't have castes? And you think it is irrelevant that ancient Greek royalty and gods were consistently described as having Nordic features in the original sources, because you have some sparse and incomplete scientific studies, which also still have a high degree of uncertainty in them subject to interpretation and the bias of modernity. You said in your last post that the royals and pleb graves were the same, but now you're saying there is no evidence of caste?

[Anonymous No.20348553]

>>20348550
Lol now this is just trolling

We have samples of high and low status graves, they look the same.

What "caste" are you trying to find? Lol

[Anonymous No.20348554]

>>20348539
I just asked if you would know about more ancient Italians having red hair at higher rates, why are you so defensive?

[Anonymous No.20348555]

>>20346870
> I don't know, which is the consideration of Indian classics in /lit/?
Indian literature is BASED

[Anonymous No.20348558]

>>20348554
What genetic evidence suggests "higher rates" of redhair in Italy on the past? Link to a study?

[Anonymous No.20348559]

>>20348553
He also thinks every non-European royalty from Ancient Egyptians, Indians, to Persians, likewise, had Nordic features. He is pestersome and has derailed many topics. He even implied Ancient Chinese royalty might have had Nordic features at a certain point.
(reposted for clarity)

[Anonymous No.20348561]

>>20348553
>We have samples of high and low status graves, they look the same.
Post them. You gave me a study and there was nothing in it that I could see regarding such things. I've seen at least one study that suggests otherwise. And you're ignoring the fact that gods in greek legends are consistently described with more uniquely white features, just ignoring this and putting all your faith in some flimsy study open to a high degree of interpretation is idiotic.

[Anonymous No.20348562]

>>20348554
I dont think we have *any* ancient Italian DNA sample showing alleles for red hair.

I would wager there is a higher % of redheads in Italy today than there was 2000 years ago.

[Anonymous No.20348563]

>>20348561
Link to study you claim to know of?

Your trolling either way.

[Anonymous No.20348566]

>>20348558
I am asking you, dummy. There are a few rare Italians with such traits, where do they come from? How can you not answer such a basic question?

[Anonymous No.20348568]

>>20348553
>>20348563
I don't think he's trolling. I think he's high off a power complex based on a false narrative.
He also thinks every non-European royalty from Ancient Mesopotamians, Sumerians, Jews, Egyptians, Indians, to Persians, likewise, had Nordic features. He is pestersome and has derailed many topics.
(reposted for corrections)

[Anonymous No.20348575]

>>20348562
But you can look at old portraits of their nobility and see it was more common, at the very least among the upper classes. You can find examples of Italians whose families have been there for centuries and they have red hair.

>>20348563
You are literally too stupid to answer any of my questions even when I repeat them.

[Anonymous No.20348579]

>>20348561
lmao. fuck off varg

>we wuz rome n shietttt

[Anonymous No.20348581]

>>20348568
>non-whites are this insecure about their ancient history
Le yikes

[Anonymous No.20348583]

>>20348362
topkek

ya'll penis is tiny AF

[Anonymous No.20348585]

>>20348579
>literally no argument
Top kek

[Anonymous No.20348587]

>>20348581
I've studied the population genetics, which your shit brain is incapable of understanding. Stop acting like a Jew and claiming other peoples' cultural legacies.
Ancient Mesopotamians, Sumerians, Jews, Egyptians, Indians, and Persians did not cluster with Europeans on PCA autosomal DNA plots.

[Anonymous No.20348588]

>>20348585
touch grass incel

saged and reported btw :)

[Anonymous No.20348592]

>>20348583
What does that have to do with anything, you drooling mong?

[Anonymous No.20348594]

>>20348592
tiny white shrimp dick

[Anonymous No.20348603]

>>20348587
>I've studied the population genetics,
So? Do you think that is challenging? My degree is in engineering physics, you are too stupid to look at your studies critically, there is an enormous amount of subjectivity and uncertainty in the studies, which they even admit to. Why are you repeating the same irrelevant bullshit over and over again? We are talking about ancient Greeks, go take your meds you fucking annoying retard.

[Anonymous No.20348605]

>>20348594
Nigger inferiority.

[Anonymous No.20348607]

>>20348588
>being this BTFO

[Anonymous No.20348609]

>>20348603
You've been spamming the same Nordicist bullshit in plenty of other topics. It's you that needs to take your meds or fuck off to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.20348613]

>>20348587
>he thinks having a degree in social studies makes him intelligent
Top tier bait, nice work

[Anonymous No.20348614]

>>20348603
i am richer than you btw :)

and i have had sex with women you can only fantasize about.

t. LX570

[Anonymous No.20348618]

>>20348613
I have two STEM degrees.
Also, I don't think a single positive thing came from industrialization.

[Anonymous No.20348619]

>>20348607
eat a dick faggot

[Anonymous No.20348629]

>>20348618
Do you honestly think population genetics is stem?

>>20348609
If it's bullshit why haven't you refuted it? why are you so afraid of people talking about it?

>>20348614
Trannies aren't women.

[Anonymous No.20348638]

>>20348629
>Do you honestly think population genetics is stem?
I have a Computer Science and Neuroscience degree. I've just studied the population genetics on my spare time.
>>20348629
>If it's bullshit why haven't you refuted it? why are you so afraid of people talking about it?
That guy already refuted it for Greeks or at the very least pointed out they didn't have much steppe admixture in ancient times.
I just think it's a very rude thing to go around yelling certain peoples are mongrels and that their ancient forebears clustered with NW Euros when we have autosomal samples that show otherwise.

[Anonymous No.20348650]

>>20348638
>I just think it's a very rude thing to go around yelling certain peoples are mongrels and that their ancient forebears clustered with NW Euros when we have autosomal samples that show otherwise.
I asked why there are Italians with red hair and why they are frequently depicted with red hair in medieval and renaissance portraits and you started sperging out about nordicism.
>comp sci
>neuroscience
nice man

[Anonymous No.20348656]

Jewish kvetching coming in 3...2...1...

[Anonymous No.20348660]

[Anonymous No.20348663]

>>20348660
PBUH

[Anonymous No.20348664]

>>20348663

[Anonymous No.20348668]

>>20348664
It looks like ancient humans were a lot whiter than modern populations. Herodotus describes the Scythians as red-haired as well, but who knows who the real Scythians really were.

[Anonymous No.20348676]

Where did the anti-white trannies go? I'm just getting started here.

[Anonymous No.20348683]

Keep posting your cringe WE WUZ bullshit, faggot. Basically turning /lit/ into /pol/.

[Anonymous No.20348689]

>>20348683
ok

[Anonymous No.20348693]

>>20348683

[Anonymous No.20348695]

>>20348689
Is Sean Connery a mutt?
Your stupid Nordicist bullshit needs to die.

[Anonymous No.20348709]

>>20348695
I'm not a nordicist. pic rel is a 4500 year old mummy (one of many) found in loulan china, with pale skin and blonde hair, even the women were > 6ft. Don't you find that intriguing? even more so when considering that the first chinese legends speak of blue-eyed giants teaching them the ways of the sacred empire.

[Anonymous No.20348713]

>>20348709
You said, "It looks like ancient humans were a lot whiter than modern populations." That's a Nordicist claim. Population genetics does not corroborate your claim.
You're acting like a hyper-Jew with your obsession of claiming numerous ancient populations resembled NW Euros more.
Just let it go, faggot. Learn that there is much to be proud about for your own race without having to claim the legitimacy of others.

[Anonymous No.20348723]

>>20348660
Lmao these are all died except for maybe one. Do Araboids really?
>dude we're totally getting more heckin goodboy points from Allah for following da heckin Sunnah to a T

[Anonymous No.20348727]

>>20348713
>That's a Nordicist claim
No it isn't, it's an observable reality that I've just backed up by ancient mummies. I don't care if they're nordic or not or if they have the same DNA. They probably don't have the same DNA, but they're white af and coming from prehistoric china, which I find fascinating, especially given all the anti-white rhetoric pushed in the mainstream today. The title of that last one, "swedes in china", was what was said by the person who discovered it or analysed it, can't remember.

[Anonymous No.20348729]

>>20348723
They are doing it to honour the prophet Mohamed, PBUH. Show some respect.

[Anonymous No.20348730]

>>20348695
Just a little.

[Anonymous No.20348737]

>>20348727
Sintashta clustered with Swedes & NW Euros and influenced and mixed with many ancient peoples. They did it in various waves starting in 1600 BCE.
Some ethnic groups like Yaghnobis and Pamiri Tajiks have at least 45-50% Sintashta admixture, but they cluster far away from Euros due to other admixture.
Brahmins and others have high Sintashta admixture too.
This does not mean every single ancient peoples was lighter in appearance. However, the Sintashta were a very influential and important group of peoples. I think they had some blue eyes and blonde hair, but different research shows different things. They did cluster near Swedes though.

[Anonymous No.20348740]

>>20348727
>>20348737
Note, Sintashta and steppe peoples did not penetrate ancient Mesopotamians or Ancient Egyptian civilizations at least based on evidence.

[Anonymous No.20348755]

>>20348737
I'm not claiming they were ethnically Swedish, just pointing out the fact that these ancient people existed and looked like Swedes, which is interesting and unexpected.

[Anonymous No.20348767]

>>20348755
Sintashta racially cluster with Swedes, but it's more likely Eastern Europeans have direct descent from them due to heavy prevalence of R1a paternal haplogroup.
I keep seeing different stuff about their appearance. Some studies say their high prevalence of blue eyes and blonde hair is exaggerated.
You should keep in mind only a few genes select for hair and eye color.
In ancient Pe'qin cave sample, they found a bunch of blue eyed and blonde haired ancient Israelite samples, but they do not cluster near Europeans at all.
This means race is not skin deep.
Yamnaya probably didn't have blue eyes and blonde hair on average.

[Anonymous No.20349356]

>>20348709
>the first chinese legends speak of blue-eyed giants teaching them the ways of the sacred empire.
Source? There is no myth of sacred empire at all on china. Their invention and culture attributed to shennong et.al . Their culture came from their ruler, therefore cult of personality based on emperor. Schizo nordicist.
Also loulan mummy literally came from upper part of china, near mongol they came down and intermarrying with local. Its found on its matrilineal dna identity containing mixture of easterner and westerner, also from their patriarch side mainly easterner. They literally hapa ethnostate, a fucking steppe nigger and rice field nigger. Not a viking murderhobo you freak

[Anonymous No.20349591]

>>20348332
>>20348362
>>20348367
>thought I’d come back to a pleasant thread about Indian lit that I was curious about
>my post started a race war
>literature
You fucking faggots. So this is the reading comprehension of /lit/. My post (>>20347698) was implying there was no concept of white identity as in ‘wypipo’ doesn’t apply to ancient times. If you’re arguing against that with genetic data you’re retarded. Although I suppose this place wouldn’t be what it is if you niggers didn’t look for excuses to turn every thread into shitflinging race war bullshit.

[Anonymous No.20349597]

>>20349356
Zhang mad

[Anonymous No.20349642]

What is it about IE studies that makes mutts seethe so much?

[Anonymous No.20349742]

well this thread turned into a dumpster fire real quick

thanks retards

[Anonymous No.20350389]

>>20349642
Because it’s real forms of unity in diversity, unlike lib metaphysics of ”equality”

[Anonymous No.20350730]

>>20349591
That's dumb, even if the category "white people" did not exist the people to whom the category did still exist, and thus making the claim "white people write the best literature" is completely intelligible
ANYWAY to get back on track with literature, the supremacy of Europeans is defensible but attacking Indian literature on the basis of its expressions being formulaic is retarded, who ever thought to compare a waterfall to a person leaping to suicide? a mountain to a geometer's rod? the firmament and the stars to a wooden panel holed by woodworms? a curved bow dislodging an arrow to a voluptuous prostitute throwing out her patron? a warrior attempting to find his fallen comrades to a grammarian trying to discover irregular verbs? a boar being shot at from two directions to, and I quote, "a coded syllable placed between a grammatical base and ending when they have come together to make a word"?
And this is not even getting to the incredible level of sound manipulation (see pic related), or the exquisite plot structures in the dramas
There's a lot to Indian books, they should be read and discussed far more than they are now

[Anonymous No.20350901]

>>20350730
Indian languages sound like music to me. A desi woman's pitch basically microwaves my brain into melted SIMP

[Anonymous No.20351101]

>>20350901
I wish I knew Classic Sanskrit. But I wish there were native speakers of this divine language, so I could practice conversation with and consume media made by said speakers.

[Anonymous No.20351451]

>>20351101
> But I wish there were native speakers of this divine language, so I could practice conversation with and consume media made by said speakers.
There are a few villages of mostly speaking sanskrit-people in India, many of whom learned it from a young age, and there is a growing online Sanskrit culture on youtube and elsewhere of people from many countries having conversations and producing other content too

[Anonymous No.20351864]

>>20346961
OP here. I was glad because I realized this thread is not archived, but after seeing what the thread has become, I am a bit disappointed. Thank you four your reply.

You seem to be an erudit. I was thinking about enriching my Mahabharata reading with one of the old TV series from the 80s. Have you watched it and do you think it is worth it? (I keep in mind your recommendations, but for now I will want to continue my humble Mahabharata trip)

Thank you again.

[Anonymous No.20352198]

>>20351101
>But I wish there were native speakers of this divine language
There are, and there's millions more who know it as a second language.

>>20349356
>There is no myth of sacred empire at all on china
lol

[Anonymous No.20352472]

>ctrl+f
>rg veda
>0 hits

[Anonymous No.20353188]

>>20352472
Redpill me on the rig

[Anonymous No.20353195]

>>20350389
Their (non-Aryans) inferiority complex is in full display.

[Anonymous No.20353236]

>>20348689
>>20348668
>>20348693
>>20348709
Can you explain the studies showing how ancient Greeks are genetically closer to modern Greeks than any other european population? The same about Romans. Can you explain the Fayum portraits? The studies showing that Proto-Indo-European cultures had brown eyes and brown hair?

[Anonymous No.20353291]

>>20353188
Oldest of the vedas, it is a collection of hymns that descends from BMAC/Sintashta. Probably the best connection to ancient Aryan culture we have left due its accurate preservation.

[Anonymous No.20353339]

>>20353291
Are there any books on them that contain unbiased/based exegesis as well as the translated text?

[Anonymous No.20353440]

>>20353339
I've only read Wendy Doniger's selection which has mixed reviews. Apparently Jamison and Brereton have a more recent and academic complete translation. That's all I know.

[Anonymous No.20353448]

>>20347288
You ever read Gary Snyder?

[Anonymous No.20353787]

>>20353339
learn sanskrit mate, you will not regret it

[Anonymous No.20353796]

>>20351864
old mahabharat series are based af and if you want to read it for sole leisure purposes then reading any loose translations would work i guess, if you find any claim too weird the go to stack exchange and get your doubts clarified

[Anonymous No.20354048]

>>20351864
Haven't watched the Mahabharata TV show, I hear it is stuffed with filler - if you want a shorter and more accessible version then Penguin has a good anthology of Bhasa's works ("The Shattered Thigh and Other Plays"), very short religious dramas which reenact episodes from the Mahabharata, with notes enough to gain an understanding of the epic's story

[Anonymous No.20354448]

>>20353787
I’m not sure whether to dedicate my time to Latin, Greek, or Sanskrit. That’s why I wanted to read the English first to make sure

[Anonymous No.20354689]

>>20349591
Were you expecting anything different when you come to /lit/?

[Anonymous No.20354904]

>>20354448
well that entirely depends on what appeals you the most but if you are planning on learning sanskrit then i can assure you that you wont have any shortage of ancient reading material plus you can get payed by larping hippies who wanna show off their language skills to fit in vrindavan

[Anonymous No.20355442]

>>20346870
Read the Shatakas of Bhratrhari