Learning Japanese For Literature

[Anonymous No.20333748]

is spending a decade on learning japanese to read literature really "worth it"?

the japanese canon seems to be rather small because it is basically limited to modern literature and most of the relevant works usually have excellent translations anyways
some eroge are cool, but there is only a handful of genuinely amazing writers and works like muramasa already got translated
most manga are getting translated and there aren't that many good light novel authors either, except for maybe mareni, romeo, kawakami and so on

[Anonymous No.20333759]

It's not worth it. When the nips imported the novel format they used Japanese in a mostly 'minimal' capacity. Seidensticker's translations of Kawabata are very faithful in this regard. You're not missing out. No special use of Kanji to conjure up images normally not evoked in English. Nope. In fact, because both Japanese and English are genderless, you can stick to a (good) translation and rest easy knowing you're not missing out.

[Anonymous No.20333797]

>>20333748
It's really not worth it unless you want to build an academic career off Japanese or plan to live on Japan (which you shouldn't).
The fact that you are asking this question on this board is also a sign that you either have no real intention of learning it or that you will start and fail two months in because learning languages is a hard and laborious compromise with yourself that you lack the conviction to maintain.
Also saying that the Japanese canon is limited to modern lit and mentioning eroge and manga implies that you are young and not very cultured so I find it highly unlikely that you would have the willpower and tenacity to learn Japanese. Go to /jp/ instead of shitting this board, there you will find other retards interested in those stupid cartoons.

[Anonymous No.20333804]

>>20333748
There are literally only three reasons to learn Japanese, in decreasing order of importance
1) Anime
2) Fucking the SHIT out of horny Japanese women
3) Japan is an American ally in the upcoming war

[Anonymous No.20333807]

>>20333748
How hard can it be. It's a pretty basic syllabic language and learning kanji is fucking easy. Remember dirt poor rice farmers learn harder languages.

[Anonymous No.20333825]

>>20333748
I am learning Japanese currently but quite slowly since I have a bunch of other commitments. I think it depends on how much you want to read or watch, and also the likelihood of you going there/using it for work etc. If 90% of media you consume is Japanese it seems like a no brainer.
That said the saying goes that things that aren't translated are that way because they're not good.

[Anonymous No.20333829]

>>20333797
i gave up on it after three years
> canon is limited to modern lit
with modern i meant that that a majority of relevant japanese works were written in the 19th or 20th century because almost no one learns classical jp
>>20333807
picrel

[Anonymous No.20333919]

>>20333829
>a majority of relevant japanese works were written in the 19th or 20th century
That is objectively wrong.
The only unskippable part of the Japanese canon is the 17th century and onwards haiku renewal. That's the only reason a cultured reader would ponder learning the language. Novels have generally good translations and modern lit is good, but not good enough to make it worth it sinking thousands of hours on learning the language. Anime, manga, visual novels and those porn videogames are entertainment for brain damaged zoomers.

[Anonymous No.20334583]

>>20333748
>learning japanese
You're going to have to learn a different Japanese if you want to read basically anything before Showa. The good news is that learning kanji opens up most of Chinese literature too, the downside is both languages love homophones and onomatopoeia and both literatures rely heavily on intertextual reference.

[Anonymous No.20334757]

>>20333748
No language with that many letters is conductive to proper literature.

[Anonymous No.20334796]

>and most of the relevant works usually have excellent translations anyways
This is incorrect.
Anyway I found learning Japanese to be worth it on the basis of all the untranslated porn alone, let alone all the LN/WN/manga/anime/VN that I read in the raw. It really depends on how much effort you'll need to put in and how often you expect to use it. I use it roughly daily and I learn languages easily so it only took two years of dedicated study (in uni). Totally worth it in my book.

[Anonymous No.20334851]

>>20333748
Shut the fuck up, weeb

[Anonymous No.20334942]

Why do you need a new word to describe Japanese culture appreciators? What's the difference from learning about French culture, for example?

[Anonymous No.20335019]

>>20333829
>>20334583
>almost no one learns classical jp
>You're going to have to learn a different Japanese if you want to read basically anything before Showa
It's so fucked how East Asian countries caused a huge dis-junction between their past and present writing systems. China, Japan, Korea all did this to some extent.

[Anonymous No.20335175]

>>20333748
>is spending a decade
wtf, you learn a language in one year. Obviously you won't speak it properly but you will be capable to read it

[Anonymous No.20335234]

>>20335175
>learn 10000 characters and the grammar in one year

[Anonymous No.20335255]

>>20335234
Yes? If you're above 120IQ this shouldn't be a problem. Only retards take years to learn languages.

[Anonymous No.20335344]

>>20335255
facts

[Anonymous No.20335416]

>>20335255
>Implying everyone is an asocial NEET like yourself
ngmi

[Anonymous No.20335699]

>>20333748
The truth? Japan has more than enough highbrow culture, even just contemporary, for a lifetime. This is true even if one is only interested in a fraction of what's worth browsing. Nice stuff from otaku shit is just a bonus.

The answer for OP, and every other wimpy faggot in this thread? NGMI, don't bother.

[Anonymous No.20335792]

>>20335255
Yeah maybe if you do absolutely nothing else with your life for that year loser

[Anonymous No.20336068]

>>20335699
This.
Was always told growing up that this would be a fruitless endeavor. 20 years later and the fact is I consume Japanese media on a daily basis. From literature to cinema to music to yes, anime and manga. Japanese culture is a mainstay of my life and for that, I only wish I had decided to learn two decades ago.

[Anonymous No.20336087]

>>20335019
it's almost like they were rapidly and traumatically dragged into the modern era

[Anonymous No.20336093]

>>20335234
japanese grammar is pretty easy, there's only two irregular verbs, no gender, no plurals, and no future tense

[Anonymous No.20336099]

>>20334942
Ouiboo

[Anonymous No.20336112]

>>20333829
>picrel
If there were a text of a similar level of difficulty, but written in English, you would have no trouble reading it. The difficulty of Japanese is artificial, due to its writing system and how foreign it is to western languages.

[Anonymous No.20336120]

>>20333748
>and works like muramasa already got translated
Really puts a damper on the motivation to learn.

[Anonymous No.20336130]

>>20333829
>>20336112
>muh video game text too hard to read
Here's the English equivalent of "difficult" Japanese video game writing.

[Anonymous No.20336350]

>>20336068
>>20335699
I want you to know that you'd be hated here. Japanese people find weebs legitimately revolting.

[Anonymous No.20336378]

>>20333748
It is worth learning Japanese for porn honestly. Lot of visual novels have better writing than a lot of modern lit.

[Anonymous No.20336417]

>>20336378
>Lot of visual novels have better writing than a lot of modern lit.

[Anonymous No.20336445]

Japan is stupid China, evil ero master.
Tenno come from China 2500 yaers ago, same age of Analects. Axis age.

[Anonymous No.20336485]

>>20336417
I dont know what game you posted, but that sentence is certainly correct. The gays are responsible for 90% of good literature.

[Anonymous No.20336506]

>>20336485

[Anonymous No.20336540]

>>20336350
I find this highly unlikely.

There's a huge difference between the cosplaying, anime-loving weeb and someone that learnt the language to consume its literature.

[Anonymous No.20336598]

>>20336540
I promise you it's real. There's no distinction in their eyes: you're going to great lengths to immerse yourself in a culture that to them is literally just their version of 'normal'. You're a freak to them, and to be avoided at all costs.

[Anonymous No.20336620]

>>20336598
Please stop talking about Japan and Japanese people if you've never been there.

[Anonymous No.20336630]

>>20336120
If you read the translation, you didn't read the VN... sorry bro, you read some western faggots fan fiction. It is actually awful.

[Anonymous No.20336642]

>>20336630
Fine with me. I'm not learning Japanese to marginally improve my experience of the same story.

[Anonymous No.20336647]

>>20336620
I do live here. I learnt this lesson the hard way when I invited a friend out to stay. He told some peeps we met in Osaka on a night out that he was learning Heian Japanese so he could read the 'Tale of Genji' and they literally recoiled and made that 'ehhhhhh?' sound that signifies surprise, astonishment and even incredulity. One of the ladies, she looked to be in her thirties and was evidently the oldest of the friend group, had a look of PURE disgust on her face, like she was face to face with a leper or some toothless rapist. Then one of them said, to my friend's utter embarrassment,
>"Why? We read your Shakespeare in Japanese, not in the old English."

I never invited him back. I realized that night he was a freak.

[Anonymous No.20336669]

>>20336647
The number of JET or Interac fags I see here in Hokkaido who think they're the first person to go to Japan and proclaim their love of 'Anime'. And then they wonder why they can't hook up with a single woman kek. It's truly theatre of cruelty for me. I love it. Plus they really can't teach English properly so that's a bonus meme.

[Anonymous No.20336685]

>>20336647
lol
still gonna learn chinese for the culture

[Anonymous No.20336688]

>>20336647
>>"Why? We read your Shakespeare in Japanese, not in the old English."
You realize that's a really stupid take, right? Shakespeare is the height of ENGLISH. It's the story is only part of it. How he uses words is important and doesn't translate well, if at all, into other languages.

It is most commendable to learn a language to read great literature in the original. That's the entire point of degrees in Classics.

[Anonymous No.20336692]

>>20336685
Its literally normal to learn ancient greek or latin so you can interact with those cultures media if youre interested. No different with japanese, its just the way your friend phrased it cause hes probably lame.

[Anonymous No.20336696]

>>20336647
If you are seriously saying this and not trolling, you are just a shallow, terrible excuse for a human life. Probably a soulless bug like the rest of them Japs.

[Anonymous No.20336701]

>>20336685
Chinese is the complete opposite

[Anonymous No.20336712]

>>20336701
Wdym? I was just saying im still gonna learn a language for the great writers and culture in general. i know theyre different

[Anonymous No.20336721]

>>20336712
Their reactions, I mean
If you are a foreigner and you speak fluent Chinese you're practically a God to them

[Anonymous No.20336724]

>>20336692
Cope. I can 100% believe that other anon's anecdote. You fuckers are literally exotic animals to them. Gawped at, but never admired or respected. You WILL be friendless.

[Anonymous No.20336726]

>>20336721
oh nice

[Anonymous No.20336734]

>>20336724
I can tell you don't lift.

[Anonymous No.20336741]

>>20336734
You /fit/cels have no self awareness whatsoever. Goofy ass niggers.

[Anonymous No.20336802]

>>20336741
Feel free to move those goalposts around all you like, it's probably the only exercise you're gonna do this week anyway.

[Anonymous No.20336825]

>>20336802
based

[Anonymous No.20336846]

>>20336647
I dunno anon, I have entirely different experiences. In fact so different that I married a Japanese woman who also loves literature. I'm currently not living in Japan but spent quite some time there and never really had similar experiences even if I bought manga or retro games. Literally no one cared.

[Anonymous No.20336850]

>>20336802
What use is lifting plates if you're still an incel who can't touch pussy.

[Anonymous No.20336867]

>>20336846
This is the truth, no one cares.

[Anonymous No.20336889]

>>20336669
I think the opposite is funnier. When weebs go to Japan and try to play it cool, lying that they're not just there because of anime.
>I'm here for the culture
>Oh? What culture, specifically?
>Uh...

[Anonymous No.20336901]

>>20333748
Spanish is a more useful language, and has a richer history of literature

[Anonymous No.20336943]

>>20336901
yeah but mexicans speak it

[Anonymous No.20336962]

>>20336901
Literally just one worthwhile book (don quixote)
Spanish is dying, every literate Spanish speaker learns English now.

[Anonymous No.20336982]

>>20336962
You are stupid. No Latin American has a need to speak English because they can move to the us and make a living just knowing Spanish.

[Anonymous No.20337009]

>>20336647
As always, this is just a function of who you hang out with. Most people will just be like oh that’s cool and then move on. Same with weeb shit, unless you are extremely autistic about it most people here read some manga watch some anime etc. and therefore it’s w/e
t. Reformed weeb living in Japan

[Anonymous No.20337126]

>>20336647
Maybe it's because who tf even reads tales of genji. Imagine you're at dinner with some 20/30 something randos in the US—think coachella attendees—and you tell them you're studying middle english to read chaucer. This sort of loud, obnoxious person would react just as incredulously.

[Anonymous No.20337158]

>>20336647
Why would they react that way lol? If a Japanese person said they wanted to learn Old/Middle English to read ancient English lit I would be impressed, not because I love nerds or whatever but it's just impressive intellectually. I think the normal reaction on hearing someone's learning a dead language is to think they're nerdy but kinda cool/impressive. Spazzing out shows that they're the weird ones, not your friend.

[Anonymous No.20337622]

For the people saying it's easy...cmon, you know that's not true.
I'm reading picrel as an exercise, and even with furigana it's very hard.

[Anonymous No.20337640]

>>20337622
I haven't studied Japanese in over a decade and I barely learned kanji. But I can still read that. I'm sorry anon but you're just a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.20337654]

>>20337622
it's not easy but the gains are exponential. once it clicks it just *clicks* and it's hard to imagine what the beginning days were like. just stick with it, keep consuming material, and it'll be a piece of cake.

[Anonymous No.20337940]

>>20335699
>Japan has more than enough highbrow culture, even just contemporary, for a lifetime.
any examples?

[Anonymous No.20338290]

>>20336802
Kek.

>>20336724
This goofball has a point. Unless you have some professional or academic reason to learn something like that, you'll likely be met with mild surprise. It's the same reaction you'd get if you mentioned that you read ドラえもん or ちびまる子ちゃん. To say that they'll be disgusted is a stretch, though. Honestly, the best thing to do is to go in without expectations and just BEE yourself.

t. lived and worked in Japan for years

[Anonymous No.20338300]

>>20338290
For me it's サザエさん and ゲゲゲの鬼太郎. Real nigga shit.

[Anonymous No.20338322]

>>20338290
>Japanese people will respond to you being a fan of a 1000 year old novel the same as if you are an avid fan of children's cartoons
What? That just makes them look insane

[Anonymous No.20338363]

>>20338300
A man of refined taste.

>>20338322
It's because they don't really care about 'The Tale of Genji'. It's culturally significant, but there's not much of a personal connection between the work and its readers. I'd compare it to 'The Great Gatsby' - most people in the US have been made to read it, but are there many people who have been affected by the experience? On the other hand, those cartoons are what a lot of people grew up watching. They have fond memories of them and like the idea that foreigners enjoy the stories they deem so characteristically 'Japanese.'

[Anonymous No.20338433]

>>20333748
learning a language is a cool thing to do, I’d say go for it.

is it worth the effort for literature? not really. I learned Russian for the same reason. I’ve studied for years now, I’m conversationally fluent enough, I can consume Russian media and have Russian friends, but even so I can only really read Chekhov short stories somewhat comfortably. my vocabulary is good and I understand all of the grammar, but reading Dostoevsky is slow. it takes me an hour to get through 10 or so pages, because literary Russian is so far from standard Russian. it’s the same in any language. it’s still a worthwhile thing to do though, having that end goal will motivate you initially, but since it’s such a lofty goal you will achieve so much on the way there that you will stay motivated.

[Anonymous No.20338440]

>>20336688
Now I want to know how Shakespeare reads in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.20338451]

>>20336647
> they literally recoiled and made that 'ehhhhhh?' sound
Kek

[Anonymous No.20338456]

>>20337622
Is this bait? Yotsuba is literally known for being the easiest possible shit to read manga-wise.

[Anonymous No.20338589]

>>20338456
I think there are better choices to start with. A lot of the time, the author writes the dialogue in a way meant to mimic how the characters are pronouncing the words rather than the more formalized version you learn in textbooks. This isn't really a problem once you familiarize yourself with it, but it would probably be better to read a more standard one before moving onto variation.

[Anonymous No.20338708]

Someone give it to me straight on Korean. Is there any reason to learn it? Any good literature or interesting culture?

[Anonymous No.20338717]

>>20333748

Edward Seidensticker, a famous Japanese translator, whose "landmark translations of novels by Kawabata, in particular Snow Country (1956) and Thousand Cranes (1958), led, in part, to Kawabata being awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1968" doesn't seem to think learning Japanese is really worth the effort:

"Were America to come to me and ask if it should learn Japanese, I would be tempted to reply: "America, if you have all that spare time, go learn French, German, Spanish, Italian, and Russian instead. You could learn them all in about the time it would take you to learn Japanese, and you would find richer rewards waiting at the end of the struggle than you would find after your conquest of Japanese".

I myself spent 5 long years learning J in order to read J lit. Was it worth it? Not really. My French, English and Polish skills have proven far more useful, so I basically agree with Seidensticker.

[Anonymous No.20339167]

>>20338708
Do you want to eat cats and dogs? If no, then no

[Anonymous No.20339404]

>>20338708
kpop and uh... mh... yeah, nothing

[Anonymous No.20339491]

>>20337654
yeah, I've been doing that. Not trying to learn he language, but instead, trying to absorb it until it clicks.
That's how I learned English.

>>20338589
>>20338456
> Yotsuba is literally known for being the easiest possible shit to read manga-wise
>I think there are better choices to start with.

I've read bits of Doraemon and it's much easier and to the point.
Don't know about ShinShan tho

[Anonymous No.20339601]

>>20333748
Japanese is a shit language for bugs. Learn Greek, Latin or fuck off, you vile cunt.

[Anonymous No.20339674]

>>20336741
people on /lit/ are always so fucking hostile to the idea of working out, it's so funny to me. It's like the idea of getting fit to them brings out ptsd of brad taking their lunch money or something lmfao.

[Anonymous No.20339676]

>>20336850
>your worth is determined by if women like you or not
fucking pathetic.

[Anonymous No.20340035]

>>20338290
>ドラえもん
B-But I'm reading it because it's not very complex and I'm a beginner at the language

[Anonymous No.20340045]

All jap novels looks like women crap. All incluye cuckoldry.

[Anonymous No.20340085]

>>20338456
Yotsuba being beginner friendly is a retardo meme since it is full o' slang, doilect an' babby tawk.

[Anonymous No.20340102]

>>20339601
The Bible was written in Hebrew, therefore it is the holy language.

Similarly, Evangelion is originally in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.20340147]

>>20339674
I don't have any aversion to working out. Growing up I was always into sports and I did physical labor all the time. It's just funny that/fit/cels think the answer to everything is cringe shit like just lift brah we're all going to make it.

[Anonymous No.20340486]

do japanese people learn classical jap to read basho?

[Anonymous No.20340520]

>>20340486
Japanese people don't read books anymore. Only old people do. Most teens/young adults literally only listen to their shitty pop music and watch tiktok

[Anonymous No.20340522]

>>20333748
For Japanese literature, no. For mangas and vidya, absolutely.

[Anonymous No.20340664]

>>20340520
*do japanese people interested in literature learn classical jap to read basho?

[Anonymous No.20341107]

>>20338717
>America, if you have all that spare time, go learn French, German, Spanish, Italian, and Russian instead. You could learn them all in about the time it would take you to learn Japanese, and you would find richer rewards waiting at the end of the struggle than you would find after your conquest of Japanese
As a translator myself, counterpoint: Japanese popular media today (anime, manga, visual novels) is far superior to the popular media of France, Germany, Spanish, Italian, and Russian. Of those languages, only Russian doesn't have excellent machine translation into English freely available, and there's way more translators of those languages into English (due to being in or adjacent to the EU), so the odds of there being excellent eg Italian popular media that doesn't have a professional translation into English is very low. Comparatively, there's plenty of Japanese media that hasn't been translated yet and probably won't (the vast majority of web novels, for instance).

That guy may have been right back in the 1960s, but today? If you're going to bother to learn a language AND you're a fan of Japanese popular media, you'd be better served taking the time to learn Japanese and just read translations of the occasional western works you decide to read. Same as if someone was a Romaboo and spent lots of time reading the Romans: I'd tell them to learn Latin.

Whether or not something is worth the effort ALWAYS comes down to a comparison of how much effort it requires and how badly you want the payoff. For learning languages, those factors are different for everyone.

[Anonymous No.20341172]

>>20341107
that is actually a good take
thank you very much.

[Anonymous No.20341249]

>>20333759
>because both Japanese and English are genderless, you can stick to a (good) translation and rest easy knowing you're not missing out.
what
that's literally where the similarities end
Japanese reads completely differently, it feels much more objective/animistic because the pronouns are omitted, so oftentimes in Japanese there's an overlap between the first person and the third person narrative. that ambiguity alone is really interesting to experience while reading and cannot be translated into English

[Anonymous No.20341438]

>>20333748
I mean I guess go for it if you really like Japan and/or want to live in it, but think really hard about this. Is your yearning for Japanese studies truly from your heart or are there other lesser reasons?
>anime/manga/vidya
yeah a lot is untranslated, but 99% of top works get translated immediately
>hentai/jav/porn
get help you poor sob
>yellow fever
Tastes vary, but I personally find Korean and northern Chinese/Manchurians as well as Kazakh girls much hotter compared to Japs. And Koreans are much better at English. Or just go for the top 1% of Filipinas who already know english and just wait to hop on a bwc

Anyways, not much point to learning japanese language unless you truly want to learn it from the bottom of your heart

[Anonymous No.20341451]

>>20336647
>>"Why? We read your Shakespeare in Japanese, not in the old English."
They sound like complete midwits

[Anonymous No.20341479]

>>20341107
You're only able to say he's wrong because you framed the conversation to "popular media". I see no reason to think Seidensticker was talking about that. He's talking about actual literary artworks, not the nasty crap you're referring to.

[Anonymous No.20341575]

>>20341479
>talking about actual literary artworks
Then you would think he would have recommended Ancient Greek and Latin instead, since there's much MUCH more of literary value in Greek and Latin than there is in contemporary Italian, German, French, Spanish, and Russian. But there's no real reason to think he meant strictly literary artworks, either, because his wording was "richer rewards". It's subjective and a matter of an individual's opinion what reward they're seeking.

Please note that I granted that when he said that quote, he may have been right about what was the best use of one's time. Now, the balance has shifted significantly.

[Anonymous No.20341580]

For just literature, no.

[Anonymous No.20341586]

>>20340147
They're right.

[Anonymous No.20341611]

>>20333748
>a decade
No, but after like 3000 hours you should be able to read pretty much anything you want, and if you're dedicated, you can easily amass that much practice in 2 years.

[Anonymous No.20341654]

>>20341249
are you retarded? English does this too. It's the central device that drives 'Absalom, Absalom!'

[Anonymous No.20342018]

>>20336093
>doesn't have things european languages have that means it's nothing
that only makes it harder you retard. it means you must learn ways of saying things that you have absolutely no sense for. not saying it's that hard, but realistically it's very alien and the challenge is in that.

[Anonymous No.20342034]

>>20336688
The people above saying don't learn because muh translations are just as bad too. Literature is all in the language. A translation is just another work.

But I think the point is this is the Japanese mentality.

[Anonymous No.20342047]

>>20337158
Only if you value languagelearning for its own sake. If you're not a i'm a polyglot faggot then you won't care at all and question the point (except if you're an Englishspeaker I suppose). Fact is most of the world doesn't value it that much.

[Anonymous No.20342051]

>>20336087
No they weren't. And current Japanese orthography is post ww2.

[Anonymous No.20342064]

>>20336485
Closeted upperclass or uppermiddleclass homos of yesteryear have exactly nothing to do with 'the LGBT community', which is entirely defined by regressive social norms and sex obsession.

[Anonymous No.20342084]

>>20341107

Are you kidding? Whenever I watch / read/ listen to just about any kind of J product, doesn't matter if it's high brow, news or pop stuff I usually feel stupider than before. Their culture is just so damn shallow, psychologically bankrupt, morally confused and derivative.

[Anonymous No.20342106]

>>20342084
sounds like you don't get it

[Anonymous No.20342119]

>>20342106
Ahh so etto you just don't understand gaijin.

[Anonymous No.20342121]

>>20341107
This isn't true at all. Japanese media is trash and a lot of it isn't even very popular in Japan much less elsewhere. No one watches Japanese liveaction for instance. The difference is only that anime/manga has a huge international audience. But it doesn't mean this audience brings any profit or relevance, because Japanese media is meant for Japanese alone (though this is changing). You likely don't know anything about the media of those languages so I don't why you would assert this. All those languages have superior literature and a lot more of it. They also feed into eachother. The advantage of Japanese as a translator, which is not the question here, is that Japanese are fairly insular in their media and backwards/incompetent in their methods and mentality, so there's still lots of demand if you were to move there.

>Of those languages, only Russian doesn't have excellent machine translation into English freely available
No machine translation is 'excellent'. It can't even get French or Swedish into or out of English correct.

[Anonymous No.20342202]

>>20342084
Hmm, that's interesting. I've always found it to be the opposite, in a sense. Watching/reading/listening to almost anything in French, German, Russian or Swedish usually is just a reminder of how jealous, regretful, and empty the spirit of the White Man is. Japanese and sometimes English are the only languages in which anything of substance has been produced since ancient times, aside from increasingly rare exceptions.

[Anonymous No.20342203]

>>20342084
The first response does sound correct. I think you don't get it, perhaps because you don't understand Japanese history and culture. Can you name any examples of something you watched that made you feel dumber, that others would say was good?

>>20342121
>You likely don't know anything about the media of those languages so I don't why you would assert this.
You wouldn't consider this an immediate justification? What's the latest good Italian fantasy novel? Or German romance? Or French story about cuisine?
>The advantage of Japanese as a translator, which is not the question here, is that Japanese are fairly insular in their media and backwards/incompetent in their methods and mentality, so there's still lots of demand if you were to move there.
You're right, that wasn't the question here. I've translated several Japanese works into English and that's the perspective I have for this discussion. I wouldn't make a good E->J translator anyway, nor do I think almost anyone who learned Japanese as a second language and wasn't extremely well read in Japanese would.
>No machine translation is 'excellent'.
Agreed, but there's a range of better to worst, and European languages tend to have better machine translation into English than Asiatic languages do. I suspect this is either because of the common Latin/German roots or the predominance of engineers working on such systems being Western.
What are we talking about again?
>This isn't true at all. Japanese media is trash
That's a matter of opinion. I feel confident my post stands on its merits, even if some /lit/ posters would prefer to study German to read German lit, or Russian to read Russian lit, or French to read French lit.

[Anonymous No.20342206]

>>20342202
>usually is just a reminder of how jealous, regretful, and empty the spirit of the White Man is
Don't forget to check early life and filter accordingly.

[Anonymous No.20342214]

>>20342206
Oh, actually jews are the main exception.

[Anonymous No.20342216]

>>20342084

After giving it some thought I just realized that the best J writers are ALL heavily influenced by Western lit. Many even lived abroad. I mean here authors like Mishima, Endo, Soseki. Their books actually give us some valuable insights into the human condition. However, as for all other J writers that I read although they are competent storytellers they have absolutely ZERO psychological depth. I mean here authors like Tanizaki, Kawabata, Oe, Akutagawa, Dazai, Miyazawa.

To sum it up compared to Western lit pure J lit is about as enriching as picrel, ie. NOT MUCH.

[Anonymous No.20342232]

>>20342084
Stop consuming zoomer media.

[Anonymous No.20342236]

>>20342214
How so? You find their writing generous, satisfied, and full?

[Anonymous No.20342241]

>>20333748

Japs don't have poetry or prose, they have syntax and rhyme.

Poetry and prose is a European thing.

[Anonymous No.20342592]

>>20342241
explain more

[Anonymous No.20343265]

>>20342206
>antisemitism
chud....

[Anonymous No.20343267]

>>20343265
>>antisemitism
Anon, who said anything about that?
But I guess only dogs hear dog whistles after all.

[Anonymous No.20343287]

>>20343267
This is what the White Man does? Feebly pretends he didn't say what he said?

[Anonymous No.20343322]

>>20343287
Who said I was white, or even that other anon?
And did he say anything about semitism?

[Anonymous No.20343351]

>>20343322
NTA but check early life = check if jewish

[Anonymous No.20343763]

>>20342216
Soseki lived in London and read Milton. He really spearheaded the Western genre of 'lone protagonist finding his way through the world'. Such a mode fo storytelling was alien to Japanese culture.

[Anonymous No.20344403]

Feel the calling in your 大和魂

[Anonymous No.20344463]

>>20336647
>Shakespeare in Japanese
The atrocity.

[Anonymous No.20344466]

>>20333804
Anon, how easy is it to fuck horny japanese women? asking for a friend

[Anonymous No.20345604]

tfw no oretsuba tl...
i guess i'll just watch the anime

[Anonymous No.20346382]

>>20344466
Speaking from personal experience, if they're approaching thirty and/or slightly plump then all you literally have to ask them is:
>"Shall we go back to your place?"

and boom, you're having wild sex. I'm not exaggerating at all.

[Anonymous No.20346446]

This thread is full of pretenders. First of all, if you have to ask how hard a language is or how long it's gonna take to be good at it, you're NGMI; it just shows how you wouldn't have the drive to get any distance in your learning.
Then we have the retards like >>20336647 who pass off personal experience as some indicator of a greater social reality, or just LARPing.

[Anonymous No.20346672]

>>20346446
i primarily want to know how much interesting literature the language really has

[Anonymous No.20346691]

>>20333748
Do you have an interest in poetry and zen?

[Anonymous No.20346720]

>>20346446
seethe and cope, faggot.

[Anonymous No.20346735]

No, learning languages is good, but you'll never get the small nuances a native would find in a text. It's so much more than just vocabulary. I can enjoy a good cover song in its own way.

[Anonymous No.20346830]

>>20346691
poetry, yes
i don't know much about zen
please elaborate

[Anonymous No.20346853]

>>20346830
First line isn't five syllables, but I respect the effort.

[Anonymous No.20347114]

>>20346853
kek, i wasn't trying to write a haiku
i just dislike using periods online
sorry to disappoint you...

[Anonymous No.20347596]

>>20343351
I'm very well aware of the meme, I'm being facetious by stating that dogs hear dog whistles. Look at how he shrieks and cries out in pain as he strikes you. He knows you know, and he is afraid. You don't have to say anything for him to start kvetching and pointing fingers.

[Anonymous No.20347657]

>>20333748
Thoughts on Yukio Mishima?

[Anonymous No.20347674]

>>20347596
But is there any difference in this situation between saying something and implying something? If I say something to imply you’re a retard, are you supposed to be less insulted than if I’d outright called you one?

[Anonymous No.20347680]

>>20346720
No need to take it out on me just 'cause you gave up within a month on everything you ever attempted.

[Anonymous No.20347769]

>>20347674
I find that completely irrelevant to the situation. The poster before, like every other kike, is seething when found out.

[Anonymous No.20347772]

>>20333748
>the japanese canon seems to be rather small because it is basically limited to modern literatur
You're too fucking retarded to learn anything.

[Anonymous No.20347785]

>>20347769
Maybe we're talking about different things then.
This post >>20342206 implied that you should avoid Jewish writers, and somebody called that poster a chud. It's your position that criticizing the post as anti-semitic is unreasonable?

[Anonymous No.20347827]

>>20347785
No, I'm simply pointing out how ironic it is to talk about anti-semitism when the original poster never mentioned anything about jews explicitly. Anon 1 is derided immediately for being anti-semitic by anon 2. It's nothing but irony. I was just having a giggle at the situation itself, more than anything. You absolutely should avoid jew writers if possible, though.

[Anonymous No.20347849]

>>20347827
>never mentioned anything about jews explicitly
Hence my previous reply, which you found irrelevant. At your level of reading comprehension, I don’t think your opinion about who to read holds much weight.

[Anonymous No.20347992]

>>20347849
Because
>But is there any difference in this situation between saying something and implying something?
Had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

[Anonymous No.20348774]

>>20347657
good prose and fellow homosexual

[Anonymous No.20349382]

All of you faggots in this thread talking about how Jap popular media makes it worth learning it make me want to never come back to this board.
What are you, 16? It's bad enough that you find any enjoyment in some of the most vacuous, shallow and formulaic popular entertainment in the history of mankind, but starting a lifelong comitment to an otherwise beautiful language for a motivation that would already be considered shameful to any well adjusted teenager? That's just pathetic.
By the time you reach reading fluency you will have alredy grown way past the faggotry that are visual novels or whatever degenerate porn videogames you enjoy. If you haven't, you should quite literally kill yourselves, because if you are over 25 and still find any pleasure in all that shite, life is most likely not going to offer you anything worthwhile.

[Anonymous No.20349391]

>>20349382
There’s plenty of stuff that isn’t degenerate, but it was fun typing out your post and selecting the image I’m sure, so I understand why you’re here

[Anonymous No.20349461]

>>20349382
Keke you are literally just mad that Japanese culture is anime. In the history books of the 21st century that is what will be under Japan's heading. They were nuked into the anime/weird tentacle commercials country. I will continue have my sole experience of Japanese "culture" be ejaculating to their BIG booby women drawings and watching steins;gate. You can't stop me.

[Anonymous No.20349524]

>>20349382
'Traditional' jap culture is literally bootleg Han culture. It's tired and pathetic. Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.20349567]

>>20335019
...I think you're overstating the difference between literary Japanese and current literary Japanese. It's not a disjunction the size of classical to modern Japanese, but more of a change of accent in the same way that 19th C literature in English will seem verbose or obscure or flowery compared to how even pre-WWII literature is phrased. There are different accents and registers present in Japanese, so Kansai dialects are closer to literary Japanese before while if you learn Japanese you'll probably learn something closer to what a Tokyo business man would speak and a lot of books are now written in the Japanese a Tokyo teenage girl would write. If you learnt literary Japanese and tried to talk to people in the modern day, it would be like learning English from old recordings of BBC English and trying to talk to a zoomer. You'll sound weird because something's simply aren't said that way normally now, just like if you talked Shakespearean English or 1920s flapper or fluent Frank Zappa Valley Girl, people will think you're engaging in a literary fancy to do it.

[Anonymous No.20349574]

>>20349524
>Hanfu enthusiast trying to fit kimono over his hanbok in real time

[Anonymous No.20349784]

>>20349382
do you have any recommendations then or was that just empty talk?

[Anonymous No.20349832]

>>20333807
>Remember dirt poor rice farmers learn harder languages.
Isn’t that different though? They lived and breathed those languages of course they learned them. Very easy when that’s the case. I mean we all know English here even though it’s apparently one of the hardest languages to learn as a 2nd language. You’re living proof you’re point is silly and mute

[Anonymous No.20349833]

>>20346382
Other anons said that most think non-model gaijins (which are practically 100% of gaijin in japan looking for sex) are gross, look weird, and having sex with one is like borderline bestiality in most people's books. They're just too polite to tell that to your face straight.

>>20333748
Just how different is classical japanese compared to contemporary japanese? Is it like old english to modern english level of difference, or moreso like middle english to modern english?

[Anonymous No.20349838]

>>20335255
>be 119IQ

[Anonymous No.20350204]

>>20349784
Yes, I have.
As I said, don't learn Japanese to read visual novels, manga or whatever pop shit you enjoy, because since you are most likely a retarded zoomer you will either grow out of all of that and one day become a decent and cultured person (unlikely), or you will maintain childish interests and a lack of aesthetic judgement, in which case I unironically recommend suicide.
If perchance you do have a genuine interest in one or more aspects of Japanese tradition and you realise you need to learn the language in order to get the full experience, then at some point in your journey you will come across the bitter realization that in reality no one gives a fuck about whatever topic you are into. Not other learners, because the entirety of Japanese projected image abroad attracts the type of subhuman that I described earlier; but what's worse, not even the actual Japanese people.
Japan is the most shallow, culturally barren nation on Earth. It's even worse than fucking China and that's saying a lot. Even if you think what this dude>>20336647 is saying is a lie to shit on Japan I can attest that it's infinitely closer to reality than you can imagine.
Every single intellectually curious young Japanese person will do everything they can to leave their country in every way they can including culturally. While you waste years of your life trying to read and enjoy the Makura no Sōshi or whatever you will have literally no one to discuss it with, since the extremely few lit Japs that still are around will be drooling over Joyce, Goethe and Gombrowicz.
The only people who may actually care about their cultural heritage would be 80 yo rural folk who will always regard you as a retarded white monkey, no matter who much you prove to them you are not, and will never share any interesting conversation with you (that's it to say if you ever meet one, which is also unlikely).

t. Wasted years of my life trying to get into a dead culture that literally no one gives a shit about.

[Anonymous No.20350298]

>>20350204
i think that your opinion on modern japanese media is way too negative and visual novel writers like jackson are still one of my main reasons to continue learning the language but i am also quite interested in poets like Nakahara Chūya and Bashō
judging your interests maybe you should have learned Chinese instead
could you tell me how many years you have spent on Jp?

[Anonymous No.20350325]

>>20349382
>>20350204
>t. retard seething because he failed learning Japanese
Jesus Christ. This is just pathetic at this point.

[Anonymous No.20350411]

>>20350204
The dynamic makes sense psychologically, they were utterly mindbroken by America in WWII and so seeing a Westerner who is treating their culture (not the manufactured culture made to appeal to westernized sensibilities, but the authentic culture that was killed by the west) as superior to his own and putting it on a pedestal will of course provoke a disgusted reaction, the same way a woman is disgusted by a submissive man. Not that it "should" be this way, but the fact of it makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous No.20350462]

>>20350204
So please correct me if I'm wrong, but you put a lot of effort into learning Japanese because you wanted to read "good" Japanese "literature" (quotes for emphasis because I can't think of another way to distinguish between what you consider pop culture and highbrow culture), and then you got upset when of the less than 1000 people you talked to in Japanese, nobody cared?

Did you consider attending a Japanese university, or any university with a strong Japanese literature program? Nobody in America talks about the intricacies of Chaucer, either, but the people who do conveniently congregate in a handful of universities and attend annual conferences.

And it's not too late either. Email addresses are public for university people. Why not send them an email with your question about whatever Japanese "literature" you want to discuss? It'd be more productive than hurling abuse at the 99.9% of people who learn Japanese for anime or business.

[Anonymous No.20350806]

>>20350298
Around 5 years of studying, 2 of them living in Japan.
>>20350462
In every country there is an obvious divide between your average retard and a cultured person interested in art/literature or whatever, but in Japan it's immensely greater.
You don't really know how Japanese universities work and how the Japanese psyche operates. I have talked to people studying humanities in uni and they literally didn't give a fuck about it. It could have been any other degree, they just didn't care. School is so though and uni admission so difficult, once they make it there they simply treat it as a multi year vacation. They become indulgent and lazy and professors don't really push them so they learn jackshit. For them uni is just a kind of intermezzo before they get a job and start their salaryman life.
I remember one time, when I had been there for like 6 months, I met a guy studying some humanities degree in the TMU. I was excited to talk with someone about some interesting topics like lit or history. I read Blyth's haiku books and enjoyed a lot of classical Japanese lit in translation, so I started talking to him about haiku, telling him how I would like to make some travel on foot like in the road to Oku and some other nerd shit. He was quite polite but didn't really engage with what I told him, you know the jazz a lot of "wow", "ahhh", "you know a lot...". Motherfucker only wanted to practie his English and talk about baseball.
Another time I told a group of people with several Japs in it that I was planning to do the Shikoku Henro. Some laughed cause the thought I as joking and one stupid bitch didn't know what it was.

And before you call me on it, yes, I'm sure in a country of 130 million people there are some that are actually honestly invested in their cultural tradition and are willing to share it with a foreigner. I didn't meet them though, and you won't either.

[Anonymous No.20350852]

>>20350806
>I have talked to people studying humanities in uni and they literally didn't give a fuck about it.
I'm more aware than you think about how Japanese people treat university studies. I was suggesting you should talk to the professors, the academics who've made that their job. You'd experience similar if you went to UCLA today and asked a junior student of English Lit about Chaucer. She wouldn't care (and it would be she) and would find you strange for actually wanting to discuss schoolWORK outside of class.

I'm really sorry you had that experience but don't give up and I think you should go a little easier on the people who learn nip for anime. Seriously, shoot a Japanese classics professor an email. Worst that can happen is they ignore you. Or try to find a western academic who works with Japanese classics.

[Anonymous No.20351070]

>>20350411
>Taking interest = Deeming it superior
Does it really look that way?
Do the Japanese really think this way?

[Anonymous No.20351111]

>>20351070
Most humans think this way. ESPECIALLY when it comes to sportsball. If you're known to read, and don't take an interest in sportsball, the default assumption is that you think reading is more important than sportsball, because if you didn't think that, you'd either read less to watch sportsball, or you'd sacrifice something else to read and watch sportsball.

So when a person says they are interested in Japanese classical literature and aren't already masters of western lit, it can come across as a declaration that Japanese classical literature is superior to the West. Obviously I think this is a silly and incorrect way of thinking but it does exist and needs to be dealt with when encountered.

[Anonymous No.20351197]

>>20351070
This is all just guesswork so don't take it too seriously, but I would imagine with the level of military/cultural dominance and hegemony that America has had since the war, particularly over Japan/Korea, they generally have a hard time viewing the cultures on anything like an equal footing. Maybe it's not correct to say that they think you're deeming their culture superior, but for you to see it even as equal would seem unnatural to them. Part of this, maybe, is more to do with just being more traditional (not in the sense of actively engaging with tradition but just in the sense of having an insular, non-liberal worldview) and not understanding the peculiarly modern/western phenomenon of people taking a deep interest in a foreign culture. But I think it's especially unsettling for them when it's someone from a culture that is supposed to be in the "master" role.

Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that, with respect to their traditional culture, they have been completely detached from it by the crisis of the war. So to have someone bring it up is like, say, a guy who fucks your wife, ruins your marriage, sends your life into a downward spiral, and then years later he comes to talk to you wanting to be friends and relate to you over how wonderful she is. The natural relation they would have to a westerner is that of the cuckold to the bull, trying to connect with them over that type of culture is putting the cart before the horse, you'd have to get to know a person well and work through this baggage before you could begin to have a meaningful conversation with them about such a charged subject. Another analogy would be like a rich person trying to be buddies with their servants, you're in a position where they'll be polite to you, respect you, cling to you for clout, etc., but trying to just "reach out and connect as one human to another", that's an oversimplification and it shows a lack of understanding of the implicit dynamic. Really fucked up stuff, and I'm probably overselling it because I'm not basing this on any sort of personal experience, but my intuition and everything I've seen secondhand points to this conclusion.

>>20351111
Yeah this is logical but this is also a very specific situation with a specific history. Lovely digits btw.

[Anonymous No.20351240]

>>20351197
And you also have excellent points. I suppose the only long term solution is to get to know people slowly and be careful of how you present your interests. That, or just yolo it and let peoples' reaction to your interests be a filter for who you spend time with. Not exactly useful for the guy who has invested quite a lot into his desire to discuss classical Japanese literature, but that's that.

[Anonymous No.20351441]

>>20350852
>shoot a Japanese classics professor an email
To be honest that didn't cross my mind at the time. Now I'm too far removed from teh context to do so.
Besides, I didn't want to partake in serious academic discussions, I just wanted to spend some evenings talking about lit, philosophy and religion with people interested in the topics while taking a few beers, just like I did back home, only that there I could focus on a culture I always found fascinating while actively living it.
That just won't normally happen, though. Japan is a hyperconsumerist, materialist nation now. Most young people simply won't care about these things, sure, this is the case everywhere, but not at the same level as in Japan. There is also the racial aspect to all of it, the people most likely to want to talk about the Kojiki are most likely won't hang out with a gaijin.

And yeah, I'm quite harsh with the whole anime thing, but I see it as the perfect representation of Japan's core problem. It's taking apealling aspects of traditional Jap culture, emptying it of all meaning and significance and adapting it so that it becomes pallatable to a broad audience that is more and more deprived of cultural and aesthetic references.

Anyways, every time I see a question like the OP asked I always say the same thing: pop culture does not make Japanese worth learning and a meaningful connection with traditional Japanese culture is pretty much unattainable for a gaijin (sorry fellas, this isn't the 1880s, you can't be Lafcadio Hearn anymore). Take this as you will.

[Anonymous No.20351855]

>>20351441
>connection with traditional Japanese culture is pretty much unattainable for a gaijin (sorry fellas, this isn't the 1880s, you can't be Lafcadio Hearn anymore).
can't you say this about pretty much any culture? tradition has been lost in most modern countries.

[Anonymous No.20352755]

>>20351441
While I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out with you, I'd encourage you not to give up. It's not too late to make friends and at least be penpals with academics like that. Personally I think the Sengoku era of Japanese history is fantastic, but there's very few good English language history books on the subject. Eventually I'd like to write my own books, if I can overcome the hurdle of Japanese handwriting to read the primary sources myself.

[Anonymous No.20353032]

>>20333748
his

[Anonymous No.20353474]

There are so many salty people with reverse grudges against Japan.

[Anonymous No.20353510]

>>20350411
The Meiji killed their own culture due to inferiority towards the West. Even by the time of WWII, Japan's culture was dead.
Pre-Meiji Japan was very different.

[Anonymous No.20353513]

>>20350411
The Meiji killed their own culture due to inferiority complex towards the West. Even by the time of WWII, Japanese culture was dead.
Pre-Meiji Japan was very different.

[Anonymous No.20353895]

>>20333748
I was bit of a weeaboo in high school and thus took Japanese to watch anime with no subtitles. While I still enjoy the medium, I've grown to appreciate other parts of Japanese culture just by being able to understand the language and get into niche interests I otherwise would have never come across. Along with my bachelor's in college, I graduated with a minor in international business concentrated in Japanese. My career goal is to work with an international company that conducts transactions with Japan.
Learn it. There's more to the language and culture than the psued-intellectuals will have you believe.
>Haiku
>Martials arts such as sumo and judo
>Philosophy
>History
>Music
Of course each language has its shortcomings and shallow content. Regardless of whatever you end up learning, you open yourself to experiencing literature, and the world as a whole, in a new way.

[Anonymous No.20354555]

>>20341654
>Absalom, Absalom
>Faulkner
And ignored.

[Anonymous No.20354924]

>>20353895
could you elaborate on the martial arts part?

[Anonymous No.20355154]

>>20354924
Sumo tournaments are originally broadcasted in Japanese by the NHK. Listening to the commentary works as audio input for learning grammar, while the wrestlers' names, techniques, etc. has slowly expanded my vocabulary. I'm also a big fan of martial arts in general, so having content I can enjoy while learning helps.
I still have a lot to learn, though.

[Anonymous No.20356696]

bruh I just wanna read porno games

[Anonymous No.20357281]

>>20356696
Then you are living in a golden age. Back in my day VN almost NEVER got translated officially, and you had to use text hooks to google translate the lines in your porno picture books...

[Anonymous No.20357773]

every single person who's learned japanese inevitably regrets it and just persists cause of sunken cost. anons here say it all the time. you don't have to learn the language to know that there's less than 50 chinese cartoons and comics worth consooming, video games are all time wasting trash, the porn rots your brain and their literary tradition is one of the weakest of any developed country.

[Anonymous No.20358125]

>>20333748
learn Mandarin or Korean if you want a challenge. English will carry you farther in japan so unless you're a weeb there's no point.

[Anonymous No.20358145]

>>20357773
Nah. It's worth it if you're into trashy isekai LNs and generic h-manga.

[Anonymous No.20358159]

>>20358125
Korean is kinda boring and has worse media than Japanese. If you want a real challenge, learn Ancient Greek so you can read a good mixture of philosophy, literature, poetry, and ancient chronicles.
Otherwise, learn Russian so you can get a mail-order wife from the USSR whom you can talk to in her native language.

[Anonymous No.20358173]

>>20357773

Indeed. I speak 4 languages and here's my a rough breakdown of how much I'd rate the usefulness of the languages:

MAKING MONEY

French: 3/10
Polish: 9/10 biaises answer because that's my native language
English: 10/10
Japanese: 1/10

ENTERTAINMENT / HOBBIES / INTERESTS

French: 10/10
Polish: 6/10
English: 1000/10
Japanese: 3/10

ENCOUNTERS (DATING, FRIENDSHIPS, WORK COLLEAGUES)

French: 3/10
Polish: 10/10
English: 7/10
Japanese: 5/10

[Anonymous No.20358181]

>>20357773

Indeed. I speak 4 languages and here's a rough breakdown of how much I'd rate the usefulness of the languages:

MAKING MONEY

French: 3/10
Polish: 10/10 biased answer because that's my native language
English: 10/10
Japanese: 1/10

ENTERTAINMENT / HOBBIES / INTERESTS

French: 10/10
Polish: 6/10
English: 1000/10
Japanese: 3/10

ENCOUNTERS (DATING, FRIENDSHIPS, WORK COLLEAGUES)

French: 3/10
Polish: 10/10
English: 7/10
Japanese: 5/10

[Anonymous No.20358532]

>>20357773
i wish i could argue against you but maybe you're right...

[Anonymous No.20358847]

>>20358181
Out of interest, what entertainment/hobbies/interests are you into that make French a 10/10?

[Anonymous No.20358850]

>>20358181
You've piqued my interest.

What does french have to offer with regards to entertainment/hobbies/interests?

I myself have an interest in French House music but, beyond this, there seems to be nothing of interest with regards to France's media output. I think they do nice animated works, but I don't know if that really justifies learning the whole language.

[Anonymous No.20358864]

>>20358850
I think the French are loathsome faggots, but they have some good filmmakers which I think is always bonus points when it comes to learning a language.

[Anonymous No.20359405]

>>20358181
what was your reason to learn japanese?

[Anonymous No.20359437]

>>20333759
Brother even basic books in Japanese can't be translated cleanly. From recent readings, one character remarked that a hypothetical company would probably use kana for their written name which has a number of implications (newer company, intended to be more accessible than sophisticated, etc) but this is all implied in a short reference to the alphabet used foe the sign.
The same information could be conveyed in a lomg paragraph, but at that point it's still ruined.
Anyone who thinks nip can be translated to english cleanly doesn't know both languages well. Zero exceptions.

[Anonymous No.20359447]

>>20359437
by that logic translating almost any work would be impossible.

[Anonymous No.20359456]

>>20333807
Nip is generally considered the hardest of the major lamguages, due primarily to the combination of the overcomplicated alphabets and the huge variety of pronunciations. There's a formal tier list put together for US diplomats and Japan is the only one at the top with an asterisk to explain extra difficulty.
That said, it's still just a language. Average people can reach a high proficiency.

[Anonymous No.20359468]

>>20359447
Japanese in particular is "just built different". You learn most languages by swapping out pieces of your starting language until you end up at the new language, but the right way to learn japanese is from the ground up.
That said, even translations between similar languages aren't perfect.

[Anonymous No.20360301]

>>20359456
if you have this tier list you should post it

[Anonymous No.20360324]

>>20358850
>I myself have an interest in French House music

niggas after listening to daft punk/justice

[Anonymous No.20360378]

>>20360301

[Anonymous No.20361123]

>>20333759
You do make some valid points, but Japanese have a unique culture. With culture comes certain ideas and culture is always tied in closely with the language. Even just some puns can be "worth it" to someone sufficiently motivated. Even cartoons are "worth it" to some people.

But if you compare Japanese literature to all of what Europeans produces, it probably lacks. Maybe some of those inferiority complexes some Japanese writers show are justified.

But anything that requires dedication can be "worth it". Some people think practicing calligraphy or arranging flowers for years is "worth it". You need to see beyond the immediate.

https://www.aozora.gr.jp/

[Anonymous No.20361125]

>>20333797
>that you would have the willpower and tenacity to learn Japanese
Maybe. It does amaze me how many people out there seem to be sufficiently obsessed to learn Japanese for anime alone, apparently. Don't be too quick to judge. But, in the majority of cases, you'd probably be more right than wrong.

[Anonymous No.20361169]

I love new ways of thinking. For me, it was worth it. I like the Japanese culture. Reading Japanese literature is great and even just watching those soothing NHK documentaries is great. And I enjoyed the progress, too. I liked learning Japanese, seeing my gradual improvements. Everything was worth it.

I do not understand people who only get their motivation from anime. There is so much more to Japanese culture. I think Japanese culture is one of the highest forms of Asian culture and everyone should have an understanding of the two pillars of humanity: east and west. Learn at least one asian language. I will learn Chinese next. Maybe, I should have even learned it first.

[Anonymous No.20361191]

>>20361169
> I think Japanese culture is one of the highest forms of Asian culture...

[Anonymous No.20361198]

>>20361169
> There is so much more to Japanese culture. I think Japanese culture is one of the highest forms of Asian culture and everyone should have an understanding of the two pillars of humanity: east and west.

[Anonymous No.20361202]

>>20361191
>>20361198
i dislike your rudeness towards this anon :(
>>20361123
very nice post

[Anonymous No.20361265]

>>20340520
I remember in the 90s Otaku was a dirty word and people hated them in Japan. Now it's so common to see people reading manga on the shinkasen and more and now more adults and kids watch anime. It's crazy how things have changed

[Anonymous No.20361550]

>>20359468
Not the other guy above, but you can read translated stuff side by side with the Japanese originals. 9/10 times the point is conveyed or close enough that it really doesn't matter. There's an argument for literature and reading stuff in the original language, but let's be honest here when we talk about anons learning Jap. It's for coomer shit, VNs, manga, anime, untranslated games, etc. Where most fan translations do get the point across. You have trannies and faggots injecting retarded shit in TLs now, fantranslations and the like, but for the most part the point is still there.

[Anonymous No.20362102]

>>20346382
That describes all thirty year old women anon. Not just Japanese women.

[Anonymous No.20362109]

>>20360378
wasn't this made by the department of defense or something?

[Anonymous No.20362360]

>>20362109
Yes, think

[Anonymous No.20362440]

how many relevant haiku writers are there besides basho? him and nakahara chuuya made me interested in japanese poetry.

[Anonymous No.20362509]

Most of the major languages have a canon that is 'worth it' that you can spend the rest of your life exploring, either by plenitude or by the depth of a few masterpieces. If you learn Chinese the Great Classical Novels alone will be worthwhile. Japanese has both the classical stuff and the Meiji Era stuff and obscure writers like Haniya Yutaka if you want to go deep. Spanish is probably the best for plenitude besides English since you have access to both Spain and Latin America and stuff like Los Sorias exists. Any Romance language has its wealth. Russian, Arabic, or classical languages like Latin have their wealth. So ignore all this concern for worth because, lets face it, you're not going to be as erudite as Borges or something so it's not like you'll ever reach the stage where you'll exhaust any culture of knowledge or depth. All of that is just an excuse to fuel an ever-growing backlog of dreamed-of works and fanciful illusions of intellectualism. Either stick to your monoculture with already has wealth enough to drown in or just pick a language and get to studying already. Ignore the other losers over here with some sort of cultural bone to pick and go with your heart.

[Anonymous No.20363699]

>>20362509
I honestly can't think of anything worth written in Spanish.

[Anonymous No.20363704]

>>20363699
Gomez Davila.

[Anonymous No.20363707]

>>20363704
Literally who?

[Anonymous No.20363731]

>>20363707
he wrote aphorisms.
you won't be able to read him if you're monolingual though, since his works never got translated into english iirc.

[Anonymous No.20363757]

>>20363699
That's because you are an uncultured zoomer.

[Anonymous No.20363758]

>>20363757
Didn't ask.

[Anonymous No.20364832]

I have been studying Japanese for years (around N2 level) and I have been slowly reading a book called 1リットルの涙 (1 litre of tears).

It is the diary of a Japanese teenager, and even that has proven to be a difficult read. Lot of words I dont know, and she also writes some words in her dialect making it harder.

What I am trying to say is that if you want to read a complex Japanese novel it will require years of study. Even the diary of a teenager is difficult to read.

[Anonymous No.20364837]

>>20350298
>i think that your opinion on modern japanese media is way too negative and visual novel writers like jackson are still one of my main reasons to continue learning the language

[Anonymous No.20364843]

>>20363758
What? Since when does an insult have to follow a question?

[Anonymous No.20365117]

>>20336647
It's almost like 99% of japs are monolingual languagelets or something.