/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Wed May 4 13:45:26 2022 No.20321017 [Reply] [Original]

Why France and the French language has no outstanding writers?
What I mean here is that France has many great authors (Hugo, Flaubert, Racine, Molière and many others) but they don't have that outstanding, GOAT tier author. Like the English have Shakespeare, the Spanish have Cervantes, the German have Goethe, the Italian have Dante but France has nothing to compare with those names. They have many authors that belong on the tier just below and who come short of achieving actual greatness but none of them quite get there. Why is this?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:47:41 2022 No.20321032 >>20321017 They decided not to place all their bets on a single guy and meme him to death. Instead of a God, they have many great knights.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:53:17 2022 No.20321062 >>20321017 France has had many writers better than Shakespeare and Cervantes.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:56:45 2022 No.20321081 >>20321062 Which ones?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » Wed May 4 13:57:05 2022 No.20321082 because they're a nation of larping performance artists, always has been >>20321062 LOL good meme, audibly laughed irl

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:57:31 2022 No.20321085 >>20321062 Not really but they do have many better than Goethe. Goethe is immensely overrated as a writer.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:58:13 2022 No.20321090 >>20321062 such as none of the writers mentioned in the op really compare in terms of global impact and influence on one's language and literature overall. You can have personal preference of course.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 13:59:10 2022 No.20321094 >>20321017 Geniuses don't come from France.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:00:16 2022 No.20321099 >>20321017 Moliere is very close to Shakespeare and Cervantes and at least deserves being considered a goat. Baudelaire and Proust likewise.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:05:53 2022 No.20321118 >>20321099 >Baudelaire Lol no >Proust Lol no + naming jews is cheating.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:09:45 2022 No.20321127 >>20321099 >Moliere is very close to Shakespeare Kek

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:10:26 2022 No.20321129 >>20321118 Proust is not a Jew.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:11:33 2022 No.20321134 >>20321129 >Proust's mother, Jeanne Clémence (Weil), was the daughter of a wealthy Jewish family from Alsace Sound pretty jewish to me.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:13:55 2022 No.20321143 >>20321134 He was raised Catholic and later became an atheist and was culturally French. You're not le Jewish just because one of your parents comes from a family of Jews.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:14:21 2022 No.20321144 >>20321081 >>20321090 Rabelais

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:17:09 2022 No.20321151 >>20321143 >culturally French French culture is crypto kike degeneracy at it's worst.

Anonymous Wed May 4 14:20:57 2022 No.20321158

>>20321017
I think first one has to ask themselves how much of the idea that these men were better writers comes from objective judgement and how much from highly subjective taste and the fact they are memed to death.
I remember Moliere having a very good reputation, even in my school days my peers were happier with him than with Shakespeare.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:21:40 2022 No.20321163 >>20321143 >you're not Jewish just because a Jewish woman birthed you The Rabbi would like a word with you, bigot.

Anonymous Wed May 4 14:29:03 2022 No.20321185

>>20321017
>German have Goethe
Kek. Goethe wrote a single great (Werther) and one very influentual (Faust I) book. Otherwise, he wrote two or three nice poems, but everything else is just Goethe bragging about how great Goethe is. When it comes to writting, he was talented and pretty lucky, but also pretty mediocre - he was a genius in self-marketing, nevertheless.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:38:51 2022 No.20321215 >>20321163 That's only a thing in Judaism (which he was never a part of)

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:41:38 2022 No.20321225 >>20321017 Proust solos the entire Spanish and German canons

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 14:51:21 2022 No.20321268 >>20321225 Lope de Vega and Schiller say more in a play than Proust in 4000 pages.

Anonymous Wed May 4 14:55:14 2022 No.20321287

>>20321185
>but everything else is just Goethe bragging about how great Goethe is.
That's because Goethe literally is great. His greatness shines through his works, but his self is centre to all.

Or did you literally think that which is self-descriptive in Goethe's works is only self-referencing and lacking the innate content whereby that worthiness is judged?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:16:16 2022 No.20321368 File: 229 KB, 800x998, hbalzac.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 It's Ballsack

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:21:11 2022 No.20321384 >>20321081 Camus. >inb4 hurrr camus is great but not as great as cervantes because... because it just is ok! France has many God-tier writers.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:21:55 2022 No.20321386 >>20321384 Camus is YA.

Anonymous Wed May 4 15:25:55 2022 No.20321408

>>20321017
There’s a painful amount of stupidity in this thread. France has consistently produced world-class literary talent for centuries now. The fact that a single name doesn’t stick out as overwhelmingly better than the others is more a testament to the field of talent than anything else.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:26:03 2022 No.20321409 >>20321225 Too bad he's not ethnically French.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:26:25 2022 No.20321410 >>20321386 >these people share a board with you Jesus fucking Christ.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:30:50 2022 No.20321433 >>20321384 Overrated vulgar writer.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:34:19 2022 No.20321441 Rabelais and Mallarmé are goats. Racine. Char. Flaubert. Queneau.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:35:28 2022 No.20321444 Voltaire Celine Rousseau Montaigne Hugo Stendhal Rabelais Zola Flaubert Sand Sade Balzac Proust Dumas Saint-Exupery

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:39:36 2022 No.20321464 >>20321441 >Queneau he's kind of like their Joyce

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:41:46 2022 No.20321476 >>20321441 >Mallarmé >Queneau fucking who >>20321444 Everyone can make that kind of list but >Saint-Exupery kek

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:43:27 2022 No.20321480 >>20321410 >Girl, you'll be a woman soon

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 15:51:12 2022 No.20321506 >>20321476 >kek Are you just going to ignore all of the authors I listed just because of that particular one you dislike?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:03:40 2022 No.20321571 >>20321017 >Who is Molière ?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:04:54 2022 No.20321581 >>20321409 He is, on his father's part and partially from the mother.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:05:54 2022 No.20321589 >>20321476 >not knowing Mallarmé Is this really the literature board?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:07:14 2022 No.20321596 >>20321408 entirely wrong lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:09:12 2022 No.20321605 File: 141 KB, 1440x810, 1638966235816.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 >Who is René Guénon ? (Pbuh)

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:10:04 2022 No.20321609 >>20321589 >NOOO HOW YOU DARE NOT KNOWING [insert some half decent obscure writer] YOU MUST BE ILLITERATE

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:11:37 2022 No.20321617 >>20321609 You ' re only embarrassing yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:12:22 2022 No.20321619 >>20321617 shut the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:18:24 2022 No.20321639 >>20321017 For me, it's Jules Verne. Innovative, tasteful, adventurous.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:18:40 2022 No.20321640 >>20321619 retard

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:19:41 2022 No.20321645 >>20321609 If you don't know who Mallarmé is, yes, you're illiterate.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:22:40 2022 No.20321654 >>20321617 >>20321640 >>20321645 seething hard rn

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:38:55 2022 No.20321716 >>20321609 >tfw when anglos know people like Camus or Dumas but the finest French poet We really are bad at advertising our great authors. Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hasard is likely the greatest achievement of French poetry.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 16:55:42 2022 No.20321776 >Mallarmé >half decent obscure writer bruh

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 18:06:50 2022 No.20322023 >>20321017 >English have Shakespeare, Moliere is just as good. Just not as well known in the anglo world.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 18:09:05 2022 No.20322032 >>20321444 >Saint-Exupery I need to re-read flight to arras

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 18:14:01 2022 No.20322041 >>20321017 Brainlet thread

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 18:24:24 2022 No.20322084 >>20322023 Racine and Corneille even better

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 19:34:40 2022 No.20322343 >>20322023 >Just not as well known Because he's just not as good

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 19:35:30 2022 No.20322346 >>20321017 Italy and Spain only have Dante and Cervantes

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 23:26:26 2022 No.20323409 File: 14 KB, 300x225, NoComment.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321609 Bon dieu.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 23:41:14 2022 No.20323465 >>20321654 readlet cope

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 23:42:15 2022 No.20323470 >>20321776 I couldn't believe that retard either kek must be underage or SEVERELY underread.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 23:43:22 2022 No.20323473 >>20322346 >I only know these writers, therefore, that's the only ones that exist >>20322343 >the more famous the gooder! holy shit, is this the Marvel reddit thread?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 4 23:47:03 2022 No.20323483 >>20323473 >>I only know these writers, therefore, that's the only ones that exist It's always like this when /lit/ discusses anything outside the Anglosphere and Japan.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 00:02:25 2022 No.20323541 File: 33 KB, 600x600, cutie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 Jacques Brel

Anonymous Thu May 5 00:09:37 2022 No.20323566

>>20321017
>Moliere
>Hugo
>Rabelais
>Montaigne
>Chretian
>Zola
>Ballsack
>Baudelaire
>Rimbaud
>Verlaine
>Huysmans
>Genet
>Valery
>Verne
>Dumas
>Maupassant
>Racine
>La Rochefoucauld
>Celine
>Rousseau
>Breton
>Pascal
>Cocteau
>Roussel
>Sade
>Barbey d'Aurevilly
>Villiers de L'Isle-Adam
>Mallarmé
>Schwob
>Jarry
>Mirbeau
>Barbusse
>Bataille
>Gracq
>Daumal
>Klossowski
>Ponge
>Bonnefoy
>Radiguet
>Butor
>Sollers
>Guyotat
>Houellebecq
>Perec
>Queneau
>Chateaubriand
>Vigny
>Stendhal
>Rebatet
>Daudet
>Nerval
>Camus
>Colette
>Duras
>Fayette
>Gauthier
>Sand
>Bergson
>Deleuze
>Derrida
>Foucault
>Baudrillard
>Lyotard
>Lacan
>Barthes
>Blanchot
>Guattari
>Levinas
>Merlau-Ponty
>Weil
>Sartre

Anonymous Thu May 5 00:10:38 2022 No.20323568

>>20323566
>Musset
>Monluc
>Brantôme
>Agrippa d'Aubigné
>Saint-Simon
>Voltaire
>Beaumarchais
>Marivaux
>Chénier
>Desbordes-Valmore
>Garnier
>Villon
>Charles d'Orléans
>Makine
>Mme. de Lafayette
>Corneille
>Descartes
>Voltaire
>Bachelard
>Lamartine
>Ronsard
>Du Bellay
>Marot
>Chénier
>Kojève
>Mersenne
>Bossuet
>Fénelon
>Malebranche
>Gassendi
>Villon
>Diderot
>St. Thérèse de l'Enfant-Jésus
>Bayle
>de Sacy
>Péguy
>Saint-Simon
>La Bruyère
>La Fontaine
>St. Bernard de Clairvaux
>Calvin
>Rostand
>D'Aubigné
>De Bergerac
>Scarron
>Montesquieu
>Aragon
>Boileau
>Leconte de Lisle
>Saint-Exupéry

Anonymous Thu May 5 00:11:42 2022 No.20323573

>>20323568
>Perrault
>Guénon
>Rutebeuf
>De la Rochefoucauld
>Labé
>Claudel
>Saint-Amant
>Marie-Noël
>De Heredia
>De Noailles
>De Banville
>De la Boétie
>Apollinaire
>Prévert
>Malherbe
>Condorcet
>Bodin
>Tocqueville
>Saint John-Perse
>Aloysius Bertrand
>Scève
>Lamennais
>Lacordaire
>Maritain
>Gilson
>Béranger
>Bernanos
>Maurras
>Barrès
>Comte
>Taine
>De Bonald
>Durkheim
>Anatole France
>Voiture
>De Sévigné
>Proust
>De Staël
>De Scudéry
>Flaubert
>Giono
>Mérimée
>Brasillach
>Sainte-Beuve
>Ionesco
>Bloy
>Renan
>St. Louis de Monfort
>Pagnol
>Renard
>Proudhon
All these authors combined are not worth Shakespeare's fingernail.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 00:24:02 2022 No.20323610 >>20323573 Have you even read the complete works of just one of them?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 00:27:54 2022 No.20323624 >>20323610 I've read the complete Montaigne and Rabelais

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 01:04:52 2022 No.20323780 >>20321384 >Camus read more

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 01:06:01 2022 No.20323785 >>20321225 Not really, only an easily impressionable retard would rate Proust that highly. He’s a great author sure but let’s not take the hyperbole that far.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 01:47:35 2022 No.20323904 >>20323566 Quantity < Quality

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 01:48:54 2022 No.20323907 >>20321017 Test

Anonymous Thu May 5 01:54:05 2022 No.20323920

>>20321017

Seriously get into any kind of lit and sooner or later you'll find out that the French are omnipresent there.

As for huge French writers read just about any Balzac novel. Recently read his short story Sarrasine and was blown away by how MODERN and relevant its content is.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 02:37:17 2022 No.20324039 >>20323573 Are you american or british by any chance?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 04:11:13 2022 No.20324264 >>20323780 No, you.

Anonymous Thu May 5 05:24:10 2022 No.20324464
File: 170 KB, 360x346, 1649560334960.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20321129
>>20321143
>>20321215
This the type of nigga to get fooled by a Jew who changes his name from "David Greenblatt" to "David Greene" lmao.
You can't be serious or are you just a coping yid?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 05:28:16 2022 No.20324472 File: 1.55 MB, 2574x3473, La Bas - A Study.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 It's Huysmans.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 05:44:04 2022 No.20324493 File: 525 KB, 2048x1433, houllebecq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 05:47:32 2022 No.20324501 >>20324472 >Huysmans Dutchman >>20324493 Incelcore

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 06:26:24 2022 No.20324607 >>20321017 >Why France and the French language has no outstanding writers? Because there's too many of them, while other nations pop one genius and meme it again and again.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 06:35:54 2022 No.20324636 >>20323541 Belgian

Anonymous Thu May 5 06:39:43 2022 No.20324647

>>20324607
That's also due to the fact France has had a steady literary output from the high middle age to this day. While there's hardly been any english lit before Chaucer then hardly anything but Shakespeare until the 18th century. German lit was non existent before Goethe. Russian lit is an 18th century import and spanish and italian lit fell asleep in the 18th century.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 06:40:54 2022 No.20324651 >>20321090 marquis de sade

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 06:54:49 2022 No.20324699 >>20321609 Sound like you were Mallarmé for this fight

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 06:58:01 2022 No.20324705 >>20324699 By the way, to anyone in this thread, if you don't get this very simple pun, you are in no position to judge French writers, you don't judge writers based on translations.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 07:00:09 2022 No.20324714 >>20321017 Burger education thread

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 07:00:47 2022 No.20324715 >>20324699 guy name mean >Badly weaponized and you expect me to take him seriously?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 07:02:07 2022 No.20324719 >85 posts in >OP remain unrefuted

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 07:45:28 2022 No.20324820 File: 135 KB, 664x777, PRAISE SLAANESH! - 40K.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 Marquis de Sade!

Anonymous Thu May 5 13:42:21 2022 No.20326037

>>20324647
>German lit was non existent before Goethe
>Winckelmann
>Lessing
>Herder
>Wieland
>Klopstock
I mean sure, Goethe and Schiller are game-changing for German literature, but both of them would themselves have disagreed with you, they are quite indebted to those who came before them, even when a lot of it is dated nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 14:52:24 2022 No.20326336 >>20321062 lol this is so fucking funny

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 15:12:14 2022 No.20326405 >>20323483 >It's always like this when /lit/ discusses anything outside the Anglosphere and Japan. Based. I think we should discuss and talk more french around here. It would be good for a change.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 16:28:13 2022 No.20326665 >>20326037 literal whos. of course there were some german writers before muh goethe but they were all so shit that they were rightfully forgotten

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 16:36:15 2022 No.20326693 >>20326665 >but they were all so shit that they were rightfully forgotten how do you know?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 16:36:42 2022 No.20326696 >>20321017 Proust is one of the greatest of all time.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 16:45:11 2022 No.20326744 >>20326693 because if they were any good they'd be known for being more than influences on goethe?

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:00:57 2022 No.20326823 >>20326037 Still all 18th century

Anonymous Thu May 5 17:01:18 2022 No.20326827 [DELETED]

>>20321017
Because the French don't care to advertise their greats to the rest of the world. In similar fashion, it was actually a Frenchman who developed the first theory of evolution, but if you ask most people they'll say the very concept was imagined by Charles Darwin on his own.
Similarly again, it was a French physician who first presented the theory of special relativity, yet most normalfags would attribute it to Albert Einstein (though Sir Edmund Whittaker did credit it to its rightful creator, Henri Poincaré).
Balzac, Proust, are certainly up there among the greatest, but like Lamarck and Poincaré, the French care neither to advertise nor to defend their honour.

Anonymous Thu May 5 17:02:24 2022 No.20326832

>>20321017
Because the French don't care to advertise their greats to the rest of the world. In similar fashion, it was actually a Frenchman who developed the first theory of evolution, but if you ask most people they'll say the very concept was imagined by Charles Darwin on his own.
Similarly again, it was a French physician who first presented the theory of special relativity, yet most normalfags would attribute it to Albert Einstein (though Sir Edmund Whittaker did credit it to its rightful creator, Henri Poincaré).
Balzac, Proust, are certainly up there among the greatest, but like Lamarck and Poincaré, the French care neither to advertise them nor to defend their honour.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:04:41 2022 No.20326844 The anglos seeeeeethe

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:06:52 2022 No.20326853 >>20326744 Not necessarily.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:08:11 2022 No.20326864 >>20326832 >b-but we have le scientists! holy cope

Anonymous Thu May 5 17:16:40 2022 No.20326906

>>20326864
>completely misses the point
You've never read Balzac or Proust for the same reason you've never heard of Poincaré or Lamarck. The French simply do not care enough about the world outside the Francosphere to elect a national writer and advertise him there. They are firmly convinced of their own superiority, which they should because they are superior.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:36:48 2022 No.20326992 >>20326832 Both theory of evolution and relativity are scams tho Also non-Anglos don't care more than the French yet they still have those distinctively great writers All in all your post come across as a pathetic cope

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:40:21 2022 No.20327007 for the last time, Proust is not French. Though I guess I'm talking to a people whose nationalist candidate in their last election was a rat looking jew

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:41:11 2022 No.20327010 >>20327007 But he IS French. Not sure why you retards insist otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:43:52 2022 No.20327018 >>20327010 French = Someone of Gallic and Frankish blood, not some mischling.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 17:43:56 2022 No.20327019 >>20326992 Kek are you referring to Germans or Italians, aka the pettiest nationalists of the 20th century? They would do anything to look good to the rest of the world, especially Germany.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 18:32:05 2022 No.20327275 >>20321017 Nice bait, cunt.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 18:33:05 2022 No.20327286 >>20321143 >You're not le Jewish just because one of your parents comes from a family of Jews. Yes you are Shlomo.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 18:57:48 2022 No.20327411 >>20327018 All Europe is Latin you mongoloid. You're not ethnically purer than m*tts.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 19:02:14 2022 No.20327435 >>20321082 And you will never be a woman.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 19:22:32 2022 No.20327532 >>20321143 >"raised catholic" This in of itself is an identifier.

>>	Anonymous Thu May 5 23:59:03 2022 No.20328614 The lil kid Rimbaud and Saint Exupéry are quite influential in their domain imo But for me it's definitely Baudelaire and Camus.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 00:09:35 2022 No.20328637 >>20327018 Europeans are mutts, too.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 00:20:57 2022 No.20328659 >>20321032 >They decided not to place all their bets on a single guy and meme him to death. Instead of a God, they have many great knights. fpbp

Anonymous Fri May 6 00:42:04 2022 No.20328719
File: 148 KB, 494x900, francois-villon-1431-after-1463-granger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20321017
Chaucer > Shakespeare.
Lope de Vega > Cervantes.
Even your choice of a country's best shows that you lack taste and the ability to think for yourself. By the way, Villon is superior to Shakespeare and Cervantes.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 01:34:54 2022 No.20328809 >>20328719 >Look people how smart I am for being such a contrarian!

Anonymous Fri May 6 02:44:29 2022 No.20328943

>>20327019
>They would do anything to look good to the rest of the world, especially Germany
And that's the reason why they have left the League of Nations and engaged themselves in political ideals that were abhorred to the Anglosphere and Western Europe? Why they were willing to wage war with most of the Great nations at the time?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 02:47:56 2022 No.20328954 >>20321017 Does France have an LGBTQAWERETARD+ on their literary cannon? I think not

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 03:03:25 2022 No.20328997 >>20322023 This is peak frog cope. >>20321017 Flaubert: Nabokov, Joyce, Kafka all rated him as the goat. I'd name him for France's greatest writer, and the only reason he's not as popular is he's only worth reading in french.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 03:20:18 2022 No.20329026 >>20328954 What kind of projectiles does this literary cannon need, and how much damage does it do?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 03:50:56 2022 No.20329094 >>20328997 >Nabokov, Joyce, Kafka Overrated degenerate pseud, opinion invalided.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 04:41:02 2022 No.20329186 File: 116 KB, 1000x563, insult.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20324647 >That's also due to the fact France has had a steady literary output from the high middle age to this day

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 04:47:38 2022 No.20329199 >>20321017 Céline and Camus

Anonymous Fri May 6 05:48:40 2022 No.20329319

>>20326744
>>20326665
But if Goethe is good... and he effusively praised Klopstock, not in a critical essay or a letter or something, but in a climactic scene of one of his major works... don't you think that means, just maybe, that Klopstock has something of value to offer someone who likes Goethe? It seems hard to dispute that the pre-Romantic tradition in Germany is inferior to that of the Romance-language-speaking world, but dismissing writers because they aren't famous enough is extremely lazy and shallow behavior.

But anyway the reasons for all this stuff go back to the tension between Classical and Germanic culture, it's a complicated and interesting subject worth of deep study.

Anonymous Fri May 6 05:56:56 2022 No.20329336

>>20328997
>only worth reading in french

It does not follow that because an author is stylistically skilled, they are "only worth reading" in their native language. For a novel, translating from French to English, I don't think it's impossible to get a decent impression of the style, and of course there are many other reasons to read him beyond the style (maybe less true for his early works, I'm not familiar with those), because their narratives and themes have value beyond the aesthetic details of the language. If an author is a 10 in the original and 8 in translation, that's better than reading someone in the original who's only a 6, you know?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 06:01:35 2022 No.20329344 File: 20 KB, 512x336, proust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20321017 France has Proust, you retarded idiot, who is - hands down - the greatest novelist who ever lived together with James Joyce.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 06:04:00 2022 No.20329351 >>20321409 Stupid me, I thought that writing in French was the only requisite to be a French writer!

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 06:05:33 2022 No.20329357 >>20321017 clearly a thread that could only exist on a board where no one reads, i.e. where no one would read Proust very long novel.

Anonymous Fri May 6 06:17:41 2022 No.20329380

>>20329344
>>20329357
I think the issue is less of quality than it is of influence, i.e., who could be considered the father of french lit in the way that the authors in the OP are the fathers of their respective literatures? Of course you can quibble about whether or not they deserve that title but they are recognized as such, whereas as far as I know no one in french has the same kind of universal, pervading influence. The people saying de Sade probably unironically have it closer than anyone else, which tells you quite a lot about french literature.

>>20321441
>Mallarme
>Char

You aight anon. Queneau seems kinda interesting, I read Exercises of Style and it was fun and clever and all that; but does he have value beyond that, or is he just a memer?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 06:41:43 2022 No.20329430 >>20329344 So the best "french" writer is a sodomite who went out of a jewish cunt? lmao the absolute state, what a shit country.

Anonymous Fri May 6 06:58:35 2022 No.20329468

>>20329380
>I think the issue is less of quality than it is of influence, i.e., who could be considered the father of french lit in the way that the authors in the OP are the fathers of their respective literatures? Of course you can quibble about whether or not they deserve that title but they are recognized as such, whereas as far as I know no one in french has the same kind of universal, pervading influence. The people saying de Sade probably unironically have it closer than anyone else, which tells you quite a lot about french literature.
The fathers of french lit would be the writers of romans and trouvères of the 12th 13th century. But not much is usually known of them as they tended to fade behind their works, when they were not plainly anonymous as the writer of the song of Roland. They belong to a somehow mythological times.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 07:11:37 2022 No.20329509 >>20324820 I miss old warhammer art. It's all gay as the french now.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 07:40:06 2022 No.20329576 >>20321605 pbuh

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 08:46:08 2022 No.20329770 >>20323566 >Sollers stopped reading there and I just reported you

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 08:52:19 2022 No.20329782 >>20323566 I've read most of these fags and now that you've listed them out I realized what desperate coomers Frenchmen are. Even Latin Americans aren't this bad.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 09:22:31 2022 No.20329859 >>20329770 reported for announcing reporting

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 09:32:23 2022 No.20329892 >Niggers still replying to this obvious bait thread >Other niggers namedrop literally whos like Queneau that no one reads and that will leave no trace in history like any other modern or post-modern filth >Niggers don't even know about La Fontaine

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 10:09:51 2022 No.20330014 >>20329892 >La Fontaine The guy who plagiarised Aesop?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 10:23:24 2022 No.20330081 >>20329770 >filtered by Paradis

Anonymous Fri May 6 10:34:59 2022 No.20330122

I’m going to highjack this shitflinging contest of a thread, and ask whether should I learn French or Italian. Which one is better, anons? I care only about reading, not speaking it.
I’m guessing French for prose or Italian for poetry, but don’t know much about either French novels or Italian poetry, kek.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 10:43:52 2022 No.20330157 File: 26 KB, 271x370, 1645801655082.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20330122 Learn French, they have bigger selection to go through, and some really fun stuff.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 10:46:12 2022 No.20330169 >>20330122 I know both :DD

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 10:51:45 2022 No.20330188 >>20321017 Mentionning Shakespeare for English and not knowing Molière for French is ridiculous and pathetic

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 11:47:50 2022 No.20330386 >>20330122 French for sure. Plus if you get good you could learn Italian later on

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 12:13:10 2022 No.20330468 >>20330122 Fair amount of overlap between the Romance languages, so you'll get increasing return on investment if you decide to learn a second one. French definitely has a more significant literary canon though.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 14:04:01 2022 No.20330844 >>20321094 This.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 14:12:12 2022 No.20330876 >>20330844 The whole of european literature is imitated from the French, the Romans and the Greeks, in that order.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 14:47:03 2022 No.20331016 >>20330876 Pierre, you dumb son of a bitch.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 14:52:19 2022 No.20331035 >>20330122 French is for poetry.

Anonymous Fri May 6 15:03:27 2022 No.20331084

>>20321017
>What I mean here is that France has many great authors (Hugo, Flaubert, Racine, Molière and many others) but they don't have that outstanding, GOAT tier author. Like the English have Shakespeare, the Spanish have Cervantes, the German have Goethe
La Fontaine > Shakespeare

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:05:24 2022 No.20331093 >>20329430 wait until you hear about the best brazilian writer or the foundational russian writer

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:21:16 2022 No.20331142 If Flaubert isn't THE GOAT of french and world literature no one is.

Anonymous Fri May 6 15:26:51 2022 No.20331153

>>20329892
>Other niggers namedrop literally whos like Queneau
Queneau was a huge influence on many writers in the 20th century. If it wasn't for him a lot of French writers wouldn't have been published. He was integral in getting a lot of French writers published by seeing the genius of their work when others couldn't. And no, I'm not referencing Oulipo or Oulipo writers when I say that.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:30:22 2022 No.20331162 >>20327286 Sorry, but if your Dad is Jewish, but your Mother is not, YOU ARE NOT JEWISH. That's not the case for Proust, but we can't have you spreading antisemitic misinformation like this.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:33:22 2022 No.20331165 I’m not even going to read the thread but OP you’re a fucking related. Ever heard of PROUST you Neanderthal

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:42:32 2022 No.20331182 >>20331142 Rate Flaubert's novels.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 15:49:52 2022 No.20331200 >>20331142 Reading l'éducation sentimentale right now because of the lesson Bourdieu gave about it

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 16:07:41 2022 No.20331275 >>20331153 Who are those writers? Genuinely curious, not trying to test you on it or anything.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 16:10:48 2022 No.20331291 >>20331200 I was just talking about this one in another thread, glad to see it mentioned again. You're in for a treat.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 16:15:53 2022 No.20331312 >>20324464 Loving the literature discussion here.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 16:21:45 2022 No.20331336 >>20331312 You will never be a woman or a janny.

Anonymous Fri May 6 16:41:34 2022 No.20331430

>>20331084
La Fontaine est basé, d'autant plus qu'il est absolument inaccessible pour les non-français. Sa manière d'alterner les octosyllabes et les alexandrins pour jouer avec les règles imposées par Malesherbes est vraiment fabuleuse. Les anglais pensent que ce sont des fables pour enfants, alors que c'est probablement le traité de poésie et de morale le plus aboutit qui soit.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 16:49:12 2022 No.20331461 >>20331430 En effet. https://philitt.fr/2021/10/21/le-plus-francais-des-ecrivains-jean-de-la-fontaine/

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 17:29:05 2022 No.20331592 >>20329468 The English wrote the Song of Roland, sorry

Anonymous Fri May 6 17:35:23 2022 No.20331612

French literature is literally the best in the world, and also the most influential. it's not accessible to all, and the french don't seem to care, in fact they seem proud when plebeian foreigners are filtered by it. The only one that comes close is Russian literature, mainly because of the high number of absolute masterpieces. The Russians will be the first to admit they are influenced by French literature, nobody else's.

This is not debatable.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 17:40:36 2022 No.20331633 File: 23 KB, 460x333, washyoass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20331093 >best brazilian writer Brazil is a mulatto country so their best writer being a mulatto isn't shocking >russian writer yeah this one is cringe

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 17:41:54 2022 No.20331637 >>20331612 1. Quality > Quantity 2. Great literature inherently has an universal reaching.

Anonymous Fri May 6 18:23:21 2022 No.20331823

>>20331637
French literature has the most universal reaching because it's the most influential, all major (and minor) literatures are influenced by it, in major ways.

The right people knows about it, it doesn't need to be understood by all readers, or do you think Pynchon's status is pinched by the fact he's not understood by the average reader?

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 18:52:51 2022 No.20331974 >>20331592 >WE 1. The Normans weren't English, they subjugated and raped you 2. The manuscript in Oxford written in the Old Norman language isn't the first manuscript, just the oldest extant

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 19:14:14 2022 No.20332078 >>20331974 Sounds like a double dose of cope, buddy. The English wrote the Song of Roland, simple as.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 19:16:40 2022 No.20332088 >>20332078 Fair enough I'll let you claim it, we all need a little glory

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 19:18:17 2022 No.20332094 >>20332088 You seem a pleasant enough chap overall. I might keep you as a pet. Worry not, I shall be a benevolent master.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 20:41:57 2022 No.20332415 >>20331275 He was instrumental in getting Boris Vian and Marguerite Duras published.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 21:28:49 2022 No.20332614 >>20331153 >writers in the 20th century All fucking trash, stop fooling yourself. Nothing of value has been written since 1945, in French at least.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 21:35:07 2022 No.20332634 >>20331430 >>20331461 By far the greatest french author ever and the fact that an absolute fucking idiot in this thread called him a plagiarist of Aesop makes me embarrassed to be on this board.

>>	Anonymous Fri May 6 21:36:31 2022 No.20332638 >>20332415 Marguerite Duras is supposed to be a good author now, is that a fucking joke? Boris Vian is a fucking clown and his literature is worthless.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 00:04:25 2022 No.20333147 >>20332638 Duras is great though

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 01:06:20 2022 No.20333300 File: 17 KB, 166x247, harry-peteur.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he never heard of the prolific author Richard Petit

Anonymous Sat May 7 01:31:36 2022 No.20333372

>>20333147
>Par la diversité et la modernité de son œuvre, qui renouvelle le genre romanesque et bouscule les conventions théâtrales et cinématographiques, elle est un auteur important de la seconde moitié du xxe siècle, quelles que soient les critiques qui ont pu lui être faites.
>quelles que soient les critiques qui ont pu lui être faites.

Even Wikipedia has to cope and seethe about her.
Dude, I read L'Amant when I was 13 years old and could already see that it was drab. It's just embarrassing, I've read better written YA erotica.

Anonymous Sat May 7 04:11:27 2022 No.20333697

>>20332614
>>20332415
>>20331153
>>20329892
>https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pour_une_biblioth%C3%A8que_id%C3%A9ale
>https://flipbook.cantook.net/?d=%2F%2Fwww.edenlivres.fr%2Fflipbook%2Fpublications%2F3165.js&oid=42&c=&m=&l=&r=&f=pdf

These seem relevant to the overall discussion and this particular conversation: top 100 lists from various French authors, compiled by Queneau. The two visible on the preview both give Villon as the highest French author on their list, seems like as good an answer as any for the question posed by the thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 04:13:39 2022 No.20333702 >>20333697 Oh and it appears he was in fact based after all: >https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Queneau#L'influence_de_Ren%C3%A9_Gu%C3%A9non_sur_Raymond_Queneau

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 05:57:45 2022 No.20333933 Because French men are feminine. They're more romantic and intellectual than the brutish American male.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 09:18:30 2022 No.20334518 >>20333697 Villon is like Chaucer though. They would be considered as GOATs by most people if they wrote in modern French/English.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 10:04:38 2022 No.20334705 >>20333372 >NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST ADMIT YOU WILLINGLY ENGAGED IN SEX WHEN YOU WERE THIRTEEN >YOU HAVE TO SAY IT WAS RAPE >NOOOO Damn, what a criticism.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 10:21:54 2022 No.20334780 >>20324715 No that means commoner, with a bad coat of arms

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 10:37:50 2022 No.20334838 File: 117 KB, 360x270, 1 (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >FRENCH WRITERS ARE LE BAD >READ FRENCH LITTERATURE IN ENGLISH

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 10:41:29 2022 No.20334857 >>20334838 >moix.jpg ew

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 10:47:41 2022 No.20334889 French-English bilingualism is the best.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 11:26:02 2022 No.20335043 >>20330122 French t. speaks both languages

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 11:40:42 2022 No.20335085 Why are french writers such pervs?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 11:50:51 2022 No.20335121 >>20321017 montaigne belongs with shakespeare and cervantes.

Anonymous Sat May 7 11:54:05 2022 No.20335132

>>20335121
>montaigne
He's Jewish.
>His maternal grandfather, Pedro Lopez,[11] from Zaragoza, was from a wealthy Marrano (Sephardic Jewish) family that had converted to Catholicism
>>20334838
OP ici, je suis parfaitement francophone. Aussi nique sa mère Moix et BHL.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 11:59:46 2022 No.20335150 >>20335132 >He's Jewish. this is a thread about french literature, not jewishness or nationality or whatever. Conrad is polish, he's also english lit. Kafka is jewish and also czech. he's german lit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 14:15:55 2022 No.20335830 >>20331612 It's astounding that this needs to be stated. On a literature board of all places.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 14:18:41 2022 No.20335845 >>20332078 Careful now, you cope so much you're projecting cope.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 14:58:02 2022 No.20336070 >>20321085 Holderlin is what Goethe could never have been

>>	Anonymous Sat May 7 17:37:04 2022 No.20336812 >>20321062 name a couple.

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