Technological Society by Ellul

[Anonymous No.20313386]

How applicable is it to today? I tried to read it before and it was too dry (even compared to old sociology like Durkheim). From my limited experience with it, he did not take very many pains to map his project onto reality.

For those that have read it, what did you find most illuminating?

[Anonymous No.20313446]

>>20313386
>he did not take very many pains to map his project onto reality.
What exactly did you not find mapped to reality? I see the idea of technique to probably be the most important philosophical idea of the 20th century.
>How applicable is it to today?
Look around the modern world and see. You'll find technique at the centre of almost everything nowadays.

[Anonymous No.20313451]

>>20313386
incredible book if you're trying to create the bad ending from XCOM 2

[Anonymous No.20313485]

>>20313446
>What exactly did you not find mapped to reality? I see the idea of technique to probably be the most important philosophical idea of the 20th century.
I mostly mean by use of concrete comparisons or examples. Does this change? I only got about 60 or 70 pages in as far as I remember. I get the strong sense that Ellul's analysis is deeply informed by reality, but his writing is off-putting. It is too "total" without recourse to concrete examples to keep his projected targeted and focused. The bit about magic as technique sticks out in my mind.

The result reminds me, for lack of a better term, of "big bang" programming. He elucidates his system in its entirety and then gives it to you all at once. It is not a very approachable writing style imo. He did the same with Propaganda when I tried to read that.

[Anonymous No.20313537]

>>20313386
Stop posting this seething propagandized machine

[Anonymous No.20313598]

>>20313386

[Anonymous No.20313608]

>>20313598
What am I supposed to glean from this? That Propaganda is a schizoid rant or the opposite?

[Anonymous No.20313688]

>>20313598
No, it just confirms the poster is a schizo

[Anonymous No.20313692]

>>20313608
Propaganda ---> is a Technology -----> destroys your Subjective Hermeneutic (What am I comprehending, how am I comprehending, etc ( all the work you have to do for example when you are introduced to Chan culture) ----> makes you an NPC because you concieve Le World through Cultivated Propaganda that is artificially steering " Culture" ;

Marshall Macluhan permanent WW3 ; Alex Jones "infoWar"; The battlefield is your Head and how People can change and tweak how t o direct Autopoiesis ; Baudrilliard "Fractal Selves" within the Hyperreality through which Technique molds our Persona's through the power of the State and Private Interest.

[Anonymous No.20313705]

>>20313688
>You are an NPC = no Subjective Hereneutic
>You are a Schizo = Hermeneutic Subjectivity with no bearing on "reality"
Literally the process the screencap elucidates on.

[Anonymous No.20313710]

>>20313692
i'm not a doctor but i think i'm qualified enough to proscribe cessation of sex with men, watching anime, and pseudposting

[Anonymous No.20313712]

>>20313705
you sound mad

[Anonymous No.20313713]

>>20313710
Nobody fucking asked you normalfag.

[Anonymous No.20313719]

>>20313386
this shit needs a reprint so god damn bad

[Anonymous No.20313726]

>>20313692
What ?

[Anonymous No.20313734]

>>20313713
oh one more: go back

[Anonymous No.20313756]

>>20313446
>I see the idea of technique to probably be the most important philosophical idea of the 20th century
you really need to read Weber

[Anonymous No.20313917]

>>20313692
>>20313598
Take your meds schizo

[Anonymous No.20313970]

>>20313485
The first chapters are general because its an introduction to the concept and the historical evolution of technique in the West. The latter chapters deal with specific technical applications in economics, politics, medicine etc. His other books like Propaganda and the Political Illusion go more in-depth on individual topics. If you need more clarification his latter work The Technological System expands the concept more.

[Anonymous No.20314014]

>>20313598
>Chad Haag
Based. Ignore the people calling you schizo. Ellul dives into systems thinking in The Technological System if you want to read his thoughts on cybernetics.

[Anonymous No.20314061]

[Anonymous No.20314641]

>>20313692
>destroys your Subjective Hermeneutic (What am I comprehending, how am I comprehending, etc ( all the work you have to do for example when you are introduced to Chan culture)

fascinated by this... could you go on? ive read propaganda but this is such an amazing example and succinct explanation

[Anonymous No.20314656]

>>20313386
>How applicable is it to today?
very much so, ellul foresees a lot. once you really start to understand technique you really do see it in everything.

>I tried to read it before and it was too dry (even compared to old sociology like Durkheim).
I personally did not find it dry at all.

> From my limited experience with it, he did not take very many pains to map his project onto reality.

he does approach things in a cursive manner

>For those that have read it, what did you find most illuminating?

The concept of technique is illuminating in and of itself. you can get quite a ways into the book before it really clicks but once it does, it really does illuminate the world in a new way.

[Anonymous No.20314798]

>>20313598
>a nevous system... capable of abstract thinking
what does it mean

[Anonymous No.20314890]

>>20313598
>Chad Haag

[Anonymous No.20315661]

>>20313692
Garbage book.

[Anonymous No.20315675]

>>20313756
I'm halfway through Economy And Society and it just seems exhausting honestly.

my whole opinion on Ellul is that he does understand a lot of the dark underbelly of how technique works within humanity but there's this one passage that was quoted by someone I know in regards to video games and I was like "sure. just let people enjoy things you insufferable faggot". glad I got that off my chest because I wouldn't be able to tell him in person.

[Anonymous No.20316117]

>>20314641
So the whole Anonymous medium evokes a Subjective Hermeneutical Comprehension from every Anon.
Self Initiation
Silent learning
>lurk moar
There is no World here to "See" with the Eyes , but with the Imagination that is evoked through Words... " 4chan-as-logos" ; Goethe's "Exact Sensible Fantasy"

But all " Signifiers" aka Words can be malleable ; Communication is not to be trusted; every anon can "larp" as something he is not; words only reference a Signified-thing but they are not the comprehension! ( the knowledge of the things referenced)

Paradoxically , this means that in this ephemeral anonymous place where everything can be what is not and everything passes away once the thread dies... the most valueable thing is Sincere Meaning...Sincere Intent....
>pic related
>also check out Paul of Dune's decision-making process and the whole " truth sayer?" gig of the Bene Gesserit.

And as you can see here (some examples):
>>20315661
>>20313917
>>20313688
these faggots are out of place and
completely worthless.


>Alan Watts Lectures | The Silent Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7HuicMQTl8&ab_channel=RavingElectron

[Anonymous No.20316131]

>>20314798
It means that while Humans have a Nervous system that allows us to Abstract and Comprehend reality that does not mean we Humans are not "inside" our Heads ;

Our Objective tools to comprehend Reality are actually Subjective,
but this Subjectivity
is also
part of "Objective Reality".

>>20316117
>>Alan Watts Lectures | The Silent Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7HuicMQTl8&ab_channel=RavingElectron

[Correan Collar No.20316139]

>>20316117
based af

[Anonymous No.20316573]

>>20316117
In Propaganda, Ellul doesn't use this word, but just as an example, he goes on at length about why facts don't particularly matter: propaganda loves facts because they are used to "destroy your subjective hermeneutic", i.e. create a narrative, which i suppose could be considered a collective hermeneutic -- or maybe a narrative is the opposite of a subjective hermeneutic? I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

interestingly, i came across pic related just yesterday

do you have any recs on hermeneutics in general?

[Anonymous No.20316585]

>>20313598
my man Chad is a king, name a better philtuber

[Anonymous No.20317919]

>>20313692
Nice effortpost. I will check out that book

[Anonymous No.20318015]

>>20313692
Garbage effortpost. Not going to shill your book.